View Full Version : Worse-Rain or Snow?
compnurd
09-23-07, 02:45 PM
First winter with D* coming up. (after this summer i wish i switched sooner!!!)
Aside from snow gathering on dish, Can rain be more problematic while it is falling then snow?
Pink Fairy
09-23-07, 02:50 PM
I have had much more problems from severe thunderstorms than snow. What is amusing is we had a huge storm (for oklahoma - over a foot) and I didnt have a problem till wind blew snow on the dish from my roof - 3 days after the storm!
compnurd
09-23-07, 03:03 PM
I have had much more problems from severe thunderstorms than snow. What is amusing is we had a huge storm (for oklahoma - over a foot) and I didnt have a problem till wind blew snow on the dish from my roof - 3 days after the storm!
I figured as much, you definetly have a much larger concentration of precip. with rain then snow
purtman
09-23-07, 03:07 PM
I have had much more problems from severe thunderstorms than snow. What is amusing is we had a huge storm (for oklahoma - over a foot) and I didnt have a problem till wind blew snow on the dish from my roof - 3 days after the storm!
I lived in CT and only had one issue with fade and that was during a heavy rainstorm. I never had any issues with snow. Here in KC, I've had a bunch of issues with rain (partially due to a lame install) but never snow. Then again, it wasn't really snow much.
compnurd
09-23-07, 03:18 PM
I have some pretty strong signals but for some reason i get some nasty storms by me around the lake which has knocked me out here and there for a min or 2. until the lake freezes i will get some extra snow for a bit
longrider
09-23-07, 03:31 PM
I have almost no problem with snow, only once in 10 years has enough snow stayed onthe dish to block reception. Thunderstorms are much more frequent but they only last a few minutes and you dont have to do anything. (when I say more I mean 3 or 4 times a year)
gulfwarvet
09-23-07, 03:39 PM
like others has said, not to much problem with snow. just having to go out at 3am in the morning cleaning is the hard part LOL.
Rain fade is an incorrect term. The signal is lost due to cloud thickness. The thicker the cloud cover, the more difficult it is for the signal to reach the dish. That is why it is worse during thunderstorms. Of course if snow builds up on the dish that will also block the signal.
I was going to bring this up that will all the people on the test channels last night I never saw one post about have any rain fade. Guess it was clear skies from coast to coast...
tonyd79
09-23-07, 04:12 PM
As PTopo pointed out, it is cloud fade. Often I get fade just before it rains when a heavy storm is coming in from the west. The cloud buildup is too thick for the signal to get through. Usually when it starts to rain (unless the rain is monsoon like) the signal comes back. That is why "rain" fade is usually short.
I have never had any fade from snow. In fact, I don't even recall seeing signal drop at all except when a bush in front of my dish got filled up with snow and even then it was noticeable only if I went into the meter.
I have had D* since 1995.
Pink Fairy
09-23-07, 04:17 PM
As PTopo pointed out, it is cloud fade. Often I get fade just before it rains when a heavy storm is coming in from the west. The cloud buildup is too thick for the signal to get through. Usually when it starts to rain (unless the rain is monsoon like) the signal comes back. That is why "rain" fade is usually short.
I have never had any fade from snow. In fact, I don't even recall seeing signal drop at all except when a bush in front of my dish got filled up with snow and even then it was noticeable only if I went into the meter.
I have had D* since 1995.
That is the way that it happens with me. About 5-10 minutes before the rain/storm hits, I will lose signal. It's my own personal radar!!
Comes back within a couple minutes..usually. Depends on the intensity of the storm. Here in Oklahoma we get rather intense storms in the Spring and Fall.
tonyd79
09-23-07, 04:19 PM
That is the way that it happens with me. About 5-10 minutes before the rain/storm hits, I will lose signal. It's my own personal radar!!
Comes back within a couple minutes..usually. Depends on the intensity of the storm. Here in Oklahoma we get rather intense storms in the Spring and Fall.
Ours are usually in late July and August. But not this year. Big drought.
The only time I get fade during rain itself is when it looks like movie rain. So hard you can't see through it.
What is this "rain" and "snow" that you speak of?
(Our county just put on a total outdoor watering ban because of the drought)
Pink Fairy
09-23-07, 04:32 PM
Ouch - we had 8 straight weeks of rain at the end of spring/beginning of summer.
Which of course led to lots of flooding issues.
tonyd79
09-23-07, 04:33 PM
What is this "rain" and "snow" that you speak of?
(Our county just put on a total outdoor watering ban because of the drought)
A few weeks ago, we had a "thunder" storm. I quote it that way because there was no rain, just rolling thunderheads for a couple of hours. Very odd.
gregory
09-23-07, 04:38 PM
I just put warm water in a super soaker to get the snow off the dish, never have any problem with the snow falling, just the accumulation.
aim2pls
09-23-07, 04:50 PM
Rain fade is an incorrect term. The signal is lost due to cloud thickness. The thicker the cloud cover, the more difficult it is for the signal to reach the dish. That is why it is worse during thunderstorms. Of course if snow builds up on the dish that will also block the signal.
cloud thickness has nothing to do with it ... it just so happens that thick clouds hold more water and water vapor ... its the water .... whether its rain / snow / ice
the amount of water causes the "rain fade"
aim2pls
09-23-07, 04:52 PM
That is the way that it happens with me. About 5-10 minutes before the rain/storm hits, I will lose signal. It's my own personal radar!!
Comes back within a couple minutes..usually. Depends on the intensity of the storm. Here in Oklahoma we get rather intense storms in the Spring and Fall.
,some of us are lucky enough to not get many intense OK storms ... think you all call the twisters or tornados or something like that
A heavy wet snow can be a problem when it sticks to dish. Had it a few times.
aim2pls
09-23-07, 04:54 PM
What is this "rain" and "snow" that you speak of?
(Our county just put on a total outdoor watering ban because of the drought)
Y'all call it an ice storm and shut down for a week .... we wait 20 minutes and continue
:lol:
tonyd79
09-23-07, 05:00 PM
cloud thickness has nothing to do with it ... it just so happens that thick clouds hold more water and water vapor ... its the water .... whether its rain / snow / ice
the amount of water causes the "rain fade"
Um.
"cloud thickness has nothing to do with it"
"thick clouds hold more water and water vapor ... its the water"
I think that means cloud thickness does have something to do with it.
;)
Um.
"cloud thickness has nothing to do with it"
"thick clouds hold more water and water vapor ... its the water"
I think that means cloud thickness does have something to do with it.
;)
Exactly
It is the atmospheric conditions that cause RF signals to fade or more precisely, to attenuate. Certain frequencies are absorbed better than others in water and oxegen. There is a decent graph here (http://www.rfcafe.com/references/electrical/atm_absorption.htm). The new satellite will be transmitting on higher frequencies and will likely be bothered more than the other satellites, unless the output power of the transponders have been increased over the other satellite's transponders. During snow water vapor doesn't persist as well since it is frozen and subsequently there is an isotermic barrier. The barrier is anywhere from 4k meters to 7k meters up. Above this oxegen and water are not as abundant and as a matter of fact, the closer to the ocean, the more water vapor (dah), so at sea level RF absorption occurs better (to be counterintutive about it). The satellite is far above the earth in either geosynchronous or geostationary orbit which is (straight down) about 35,786k meters to 42,164 k meters. Due to your angle for line of sight (LOS) to the satellite, the RF could be passing through 7.5 k meters of water vapor to get to your dish. Given the graph with a water peak near 20 GHz of 0.1 dB/km, the loss due only to water is 0.75 dB (just for vapor). In addition, rain tends to refract and defract the RF and the larger the water droplets the further it attenuates the RF towards LOS of your dish. With a tropical downpour of 12 mm/hr you can get a loss of about 10 dB, which weakens the signal getting to your dish by 10 times.
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