D* doesn't offer a OTA Antenna for my area?

[jtalberts]

I just moved from Dayton, Oh to Wheeling, WV. I had an OTA antenna in Dayton <mounted on my roof, and I wanted to receive the locals in my new town. When I called D* about getting an OTA antenna, they informed me that they can't sell me one because they don't offer it anymore. I am not really irritated at this, now I am just confused. I know that I need an OTA Antenna to get my locals, but I don't know how to pick out everything I need. I already went to AntennaWeb and figured out what type of antenna I need, but that is about as far as I get. My signals are Yellow, Blue, Green, and Violet.


So my questions are as follows.


1. What all will I need with the antenna?

2. Do I need a rotor for the antenna?

3. Will I need to run an extra cable from the antenna to each TV?

[Earl Bonovich]

1) You will need the mounting kit, specific to your mounting situation
2) Rotor would only be good, if you plan to move it yourself each time... as the HR20 (and even the HR10-250), can not control the rotor
3) If you want to use the new MPEG-4 HD channels.... Yes.

[dddane]

i was told the same thing here in chicago. actually when i ordered i specified the antenna, then when they installed they said it wasn't necessary with the new satellite and new receivers.

i get the locals via the satellite, but not *ALL* of the locals...(i don't get the NBC HD weather station they broadcast, for example).

i have both an HR20 and a new HD non-DVR receiver (dont really recall the model, but it's a 3 month old HD receiver)...

on the non-DVR one i *SEE* the local channels that are transmitted OTA in the guide, but can't tune them. it's really annoying. and i often get confused at which one i'm supposed to use. but the fact that i see them in the guide makes me wonder if it's capable of having an OTA hooked up and if i should then call directv to demand one.

... i imagine that you don't need to run an extra cable to each tv but rather can somehow combine it into the satellite signal at the satellite. though i have no clue, just guessing.

[GenoV]

To expand on Earl's answer to #2...check Antennaweb again for the direction of the stations from your address. If they're all fairly close together, you may not need one at all. If they're polar opposites, definitely. YMMV.

[longrider]

Thr HR20 and H20 can tune OTA with no problem, it just sounds like D* is getting out ot the antenna install business. I use an antenna as I want more than the big 4 plus I sit between 2 markets and receive both OTA. You will need a separate antenna cable to each receiver (at least until SWM becomes available to everybody)

i was told the same thing here in chicago. actually when i ordered i specified the antenna, then when they installed they said it wasn't necessary with the new satellite and new receivers.

i get the locals via the satellite, but not *ALL* of the locals...(i don't get the NBC HD weather station they broadcast, for example).

i have both an HR20 and a new HD non-DVR receiver (dont really recall the model, but it's a 3 month old HD receiver)...

on the non-DVR one i *SEE* the local channels that are transmitted OTA in the guide, but can't tune them. it's really annoying. and i often get confused at which one i'm supposed to use. but the fact that i see them in the guide makes me wonder if it's capable of having an OTA hooked up and if i should then call directv to demand one.

... i imagine that you don't need to run an extra cable to each tv but rather can somehow combine it into the satellite signal at the satellite. though i have no clue, just guessing.

[jtalberts]

1) You will need the mounting kit, specific to your mounting situation
2) Rotor would only be good, if you plan to move it yourself each time... as the HR20 (and even the HR10-250), can not control the rotor
3) If you want to use the new MPEG-4 HD channels.... Yes.

With the rotor, will I need to turn it every time I want to change the channel to a different OTA channel?

The antenna I had in Dayton didn't have a rotor.

By the way, I have the H20 and 3 standard receivers.

[mattw]

Check antennaweb to see if you need a UHF only or VHF/UHF antenna. If you are going for the digital stations only, many of those are broadcast in the UHF band. Make sure you look at the actually broadcast channel (frequency assignment on antennaweb). For example in Orlando, channel 2's digital broadcast is actually on 11 but "remapped" so that it looks like 2-1, 2-1,etc.

My point is that a) if you only want the digital broadcast channels and b) they are all in the uhf band then you can buy a UHF only antenna which is much smaller than a vhf/uhf combo. At least for the directional high gain antennas :)

All of my stations are in the same direction so no rotor needed. However, I did add a preamp at the antenna because of the length of cable and splitters between my antenna and the tv's.

[mattw]

With the rotor, will I need to turn it every time I want to change the channel to a different OTA channel?

The antenna I had in Dayton didn't have a rotor.

By the way, I have the H20 and 3 standard receivers.

You will only need to change the direction of the antenna if you have a high gain (directional) antenna and the stations are on significantly different compass orientations, antennaweb will tell you this. I don't know exactly what "significant" would be but my guess is somewhere between 20 and 180 degrees.

Are you looking to run the OTA signal to all four locations? With short runs and a good antenna you may be able to get away with just the antenna and passive splitters. If the runs are longer then it may be time for some type of amplification.

[jtalberts]

You will only need to change the direction of the antenna if you have a high gain (directional) antenna and the stations are on significantly different compass orientations, antennaweb will tell you this. I don't know exactly what "significant" would be but my guess is somewhere between 20 and 180 degrees.

Are you looking to run the OTA signal to all four locations? With short runs and a good antenna you may be able to get away with just the antenna and passive splitters. If the runs are longer then it may be time for some type of amplification.

I am going to need some amplification for it. Now that I look at it, even if DirecTV gets my locals through my satellite, the only way I am going to have comparable programming to cable in my area is if I would pick up the Stations from Pittsburgh. I will only get NBC and CBS from the local stations. Is there anything I can say to DirecTV to get the programming from Pittsburgh for the other 2 major networks?

[mattw]

I am going to need some amplification for it. Now that I look at it, even if DirecTV gets my locals through my satellite, the only way I am going to have comparable programming to cable in my area is if I would pick up the Stations from Pittsburgh. I will only get NBC and CBS from the local stations. Is there anything I can say to DirecTV to get the programming from Pittsburgh for the other 2 major networks?

They only way this would work is if your new zip code fell in between two relatively close DMA's. For example, people in Hamilton or Springboro might qualify for both Cincinnati and Dayton locals because the are both "significantly viewed". There is nothing you can say other than ask. These tables are setup and that's what they go by. I saw the list, I think its available on the FCC site somewhere, so it might be good to look into so you know what you are eligible for.

One other strategy employed by some is that if you are going for two different markets it is possible to put up two antennas then combine the signals. This would be another way to avoid the rotor issue. There are threads about this but I've never tried it.

[Kansas Zephyr]

Check antennaweb to see if you need a UHF only or VHF/UHF antenna. If you are going for the digital stations only, many of those are broadcast in the UHF band. Make sure you look at the actually broadcast channel (frequency assignment on antennaweb). For example in Orlando, channel 2's digital broadcast is actually on 11 but "remapped" so that it looks like 2-1, 2-1,etc.

WARNING! Most broadcasters will return to their current analog channel, with the digital signal, after the analog cutoff 2/17/09!

Buying a UHF only antenna now may force you to get another VHF/UHF antenna later.

The temporary UHF assignments were due to lack of VHF "slots" available for the additional signals. So, they used the UHF band to give stations the ability to dual transmit both analog and digital.

All VHF stations have the option to repopulate their analog channel after the cut-off. Some stations may choose not to, however. Some VHF low (2-6) channels are more susceptible to ignition noise and multi-path.

[mattw]

WARNING! Most broadcasters will return to their current analog channel, with the digital signal, after the analog cutoff 2/17/09!

Buying a UHF only antenna now may force you to get another VHF/UHF antenna later.

The temporary UHF assignments were due to lack of VHF "slots" available for the additional signals. So, they used the UHF band to give stations the ability to dual transmit both analog and digital.

All VHF stations have the option to repopulate their analog channel after the cut-off. Some stations may choose not to, however. Some VHF low (2-6) channels are more susceptible to ignition noise and multi-path.

I won't disagree because now that you mention it I do recall hearing rumblings about a rearrangement of broadcast frequencies after the cutoff. One question though. Where in the broadcast range does the 800 mhz spectrum to be auctioned/used for first responders fall? I know the analog cut off will free up spectrum and I thought it was coming from at least the VHF low (2-6).

[JeffBowser]

OT - I was born in Dayton, Ohio, and worked in Wheeling for a month one year. I am so sorry :D

[dddane]

Thr HR20 and H20 can tune OTA with no problem, it just sounds like D* is getting out ot the antenna install business

wait, so with the HR20 the locals i'm getting are from OTA? how is it tuning OTA channels, where is the antenna built into (the satellite LNB? the receiver? no antenna needed?) i was under the impression they're coming over the satellite. ... if it really is getting actual OTA channels, why am i missing so many of the OTA channels.. (5-3 or whatever, for the local NBC weather plus, etc)..

[JeffBowser]

No, if you have no antenna, your locals are coming from satellite. What he meant was the HR20 and H20 have an antenna input, and an ATSC tuner, should you elect to use them, and install an antenna.

[Sardaan]

wait, so with the HR20 the locals i'm getting are from OTA? how is it tuning OTA channels, where is the antenna built into (the satellite LNB? the receiver? no antenna needed?) i was under the impression they're coming over the satellite. ... if it really is getting actual OTA channels, why am i missing so many of the OTA channels.. (5-3 or whatever, for the local NBC weather plus, etc)..


The HR20 and H20 have a built in OTA tuner (look on the back of your box) you would have to install your own OTA antenna and lay a drop to the receiver to get OTA stations. The channels you are getting (ABC, NBC, CBS & FOX) are coming over the satellite.

[mattw]

wait, so with the HR20 the locals i'm getting are from OTA? how is it tuning OTA channels, where is the antenna built into (the satellite LNB? the receiver? no antenna needed?) i was under the impression they're coming over the satellite. ... if it really is getting actual OTA channels, why am i missing so many of the OTA channels.. (5-3 or whatever, for the local NBC weather plus, etc)..

With the HR20 you can tune OTA digital channels, the HR20 has two ATSC tuners (no NTSC tuners) but you must have it connected to an external antenna. The guide displays the OTA channels differently. For OTA they look like x-1, x-2 etc, locals from the satellite are just x. To add to the confusion, you can have two locals with the same number from the satellite, the SD and the HD (digital) broadcast.

As to the missing channels, DirecTV only broadcasts the first digital channel for ABC,CBS,NBC and FOX. If you want the sub channels, such as weather plus, or PBS HD then you need to supply an OTA antenna feed to the back of the HR20.

[dcrews]

FWIW- You will only get 2 chans with an OTA.. WTOV and WTRF (I lived in Wheeling my entire life).

Contact D* to get the other major networks from them.

And with all the hills, you'll need a decent sized antenna to get wtov.

WTRF won't be too bad to get tho.

[jtalberts]

FWIW- You will only get 2 chans with an OTA.. WTOV and WTRF (I lived in Wheeling my entire life).

Contact D* to get the other major networks from them.

And with all the hills, you'll need a decent sized antenna to get wtov.

WTRF won't be too bad to get tho.

I live up in North Park on the very top of the hill. I was hoping to be able to pull in some of the Pittsburgh channels. Any idea if it is possible?

[ChicagoTC]

i was told the same thing here in chicago. actually when i ordered i specified the antenna, then when they installed they said it wasn't necessary with the new satellite and new receivers.

i get the locals via the satellite, but not *ALL* of the locals...(i don't get the NBC HD weather station they broadcast, for example).

i have both an HR20 and a new HD non-DVR receiver (dont really recall the model, but it's a 3 month old HD receiver)...

on the non-DVR one i *SEE* the local channels that are transmitted OTA in the guide, but can't tune them. it's really annoying. and i often get confused at which one i'm supposed to use. but the fact that i see them in the guide makes me wonder if it's capable of having an OTA hooked up and if i should then call directv to demand one.

... i imagine that you don't need to run an extra cable to each tv but rather can somehow combine it into the satellite signal at the satellite. though i have no clue, just guessing.

Where abouts in Chicago are you? According to atennaweb I'm about 8 miles from all the towers.(locals off Hancock and Sears Tower). I use the below antenna mounted on the back on my house pointing almost due SE which is right at the towers for me. I can pull in around 30 OTA channels without a hitch. In Chicago you'll be pointing in the same general direction so a rotor probably isn't needed.

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=ANWGS2200

CBS is a rare bird in using VHF 3 so you need a VHF/UHF antenna if you want CBS and NBC, ABC, etc. Being that's it VHF it can be tricky to pulling in

There are many post here on how to successfully use diplexors and BBCs. PM me if you want specifics.

[dcrews]

hmm.. in North Park maybe.. KDKA/WPXI/WTAE are ~50 miles away..

You'd need a decent OTA antenna to get em in tho

On the bright side, you ARE in the best position to get them :)

I would still call up DTV and see if you can get the HD channels over the sat.

[jtalberts]

hmm.. in North Park maybe.. KDKA/WPXI/WTAE are ~50 miles away..

You'd need a decent OTA antenna to get em in tho

On the bright side, you ARE in the best position to get them :)

I would still call up DTV and see if you can get the HD channels over the sat.

They are putting in the waiver to get them to me. They just gave me Fox NY. She said I might know as soon as 30 days if we get them. The only other channel that my wife really wants is the CW. The loves to watch America's next top model.

[techrep]

I just moved from Dayton, Oh to Wheeling, WV. I had an OTA antenna in Dayton <mounted on my roof, and I wanted to receive the locals in my new town. When I called D* about getting an OTA antenna, they informed me that they can't sell me one because they don't offer it anymore. I am not really irritated at this, now I am just confused. I know that I need an OTA Antenna to get my locals, but I don't know how to pick out everything I need. I already went to AntennaWeb and figured out what type of antenna I need, but that is about as far as I get. My signals are Yellow, Blue, Green, and Violet.


So my questions are as follows.


1. What all will I need with the antenna?

2. Do I need a rotor for the antenna?

3. Will I need to run an extra cable from the antenna to each TV?


Are you interested in all the locals or just the digital locals (including the HD Lcl's if any) ?

[jtalberts]

Are you interested in all the locals or just the digital locals (including the HD Lcl's if any) ?

Really I would like both, but I don't want a huge antenna so I would like just the HD's.


I live 10 minutes from the WV/PA border. There is a town that is located practically on the border. They receive all their locals from Pittsburgh. I get stuck with the Wheeling, WV locals. On basic cable, in Wheeling, you receive the Pittsburgh Local channels. Is there any way to petition so that I could get the local channels for Pittsburgh?

[Kansas Zephyr]

I won't disagree because now that you mention it I do recall hearing rumblings about a rearrangement of broadcast frequencies after the cutoff. One question though. Where in the broadcast range does the 800 mhz spectrum to be auctioned/used for first responders fall? I know the analog cut off will free up spectrum and I thought it was coming from at least the VHF low (2-6).

No, they are taking from the "top" of UHF down (no more channels above 69(?), used to be 83)...not VHF up.

[techrep]

Really I would like both, but I don't want a huge antenna so I would like just the HD's.


I live 10 minutes from the WV/PA border. There is a town that is located practically on the border. They receive all their locals from Pittsburgh. I get stuck with the Wheeling, WV locals. On basic cable, in Wheeling, you receive the Pittsburgh Local channels. Is there any way to petition so that I could get the local channels for Pittsburgh?

Waivers are hard to come by. If you are listed in a DMA it is unlikely that waivers will be granted. The reality of you being able to recieve OTA signals, or not, has little to do with the granting of these waivers. Can you get LOS on the channels of interest in your area? Go back to antennaweb.org and post your direction and distance to the stations and we will see what your options are. :)

[K4SMX]

Really I would like both, but I don't want a huge antenna so I would like just the HD's.


I live 10 minutes from the WV/PA border. There is a town that is located practically on the border. They receive all their locals from Pittsburgh. I get stuck with the Wheeling, WV locals. On basic cable, in Wheeling, you receive the Pittsburgh Local channels. Is there any way to petition so that I could get the local channels for Pittsburgh?
If you are in fact on a hilltop, you can probably receive DT signals from a pretty good distance. First you need to go the NAB webpage (http://www.nab.org/AM/ASPCode/DTVStations/DTVStations.asp), which lists by market area the DT stations in operation, and, most importantly, the actual RF channel of the DT signal. You'll find that the vast majority of the current DT stations operate on a UHF channel at this time, although, as was pointed out above, some may or may not migrate back to a previous VHF channel. If you determine that your stations of interest are all UHF channels, at least for the time being you can get away with a physically smaller UHF only antenna.

There's a wide variety of antennas from which to choose at Solid Signal (http://www.solidsignal.com), Summit Source (http://www.summitsource.com), etc. I prefer the yagi's over the bow tie's myself. I've tried a lot of stuff, and regularly receive solid OTA sig's from 100 miles away.

I would also pick up a good quality amplifier, such as the Channel Master 7777 or a Motorola 484095-001-00, which have shielded power cables. You can then run separate lines to your individual TV's or D* receivers with ATSC inputs from good quality passive splitters, realizing that you're losing signal with splitters.

One caution: You will find that combining 2 UHF antennas pointed in different directions doesn't work, unless you have strong signals, because the they interfere with each other, to put it in non-electrical engineering terms. You would need two separate coax lines and a simple 2-way coax switch instead. (You can do that with one UHF only and one VHF only antenna, however.) A rotator and one antenna is OK, but you will have a problem with any scanning-type ATSC TV tuner channel memory manager with a rotator or switch arrangement in that they can only scan in one direction at a time. They don't remember and add to previous scans. Some TV's, e.g., the Mitsubishi's, will let you assign both their 2 RF inputs to be OTA inputs.

Hope this helps. The OTA ATSC signals can have really excellent PQ, and I use them all the time. The above is a quick overview. You can find lots more info here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10117710&&#post10117710).

[jrmichael]

You will only need to change the direction of the antenna if you have a high gain (directional) antenna and the stations are on significantly different compass orientations, antennaweb will tell you this. I don't know exactly what "significant" would be but my guess is somewhere between 20 and 180 degrees.

Are you looking to run the OTA signal to all four locations? With short runs and a good antenna you may be able to get away with just the antenna and passive splitters. If the runs are longer then it may be time for some type of amplification.

I used a signal combiner onto one cable with two attic mounted antennas to get around needing a rotor. I simply pointed the anntennas in different directions to get all of the channels available to me. You don't really need an expensive antenna to receive most signals. I have a dedicated OTA cable run to the HR20.

[jwd45244]

To expand on Earl's answer to #2...check Antennaweb again for the direction of the stations from your address. If they're all fairly close together, you may not need one at all. If they're polar opposites, definitely. YMMV.


An even better site to check is www.tvfool.com as you can put in antenna height above ground level and it will show you direction, strength and line of sight (why height is important)

[jtalberts]

An even better site to check is www.tvfool.com as you can put in antenna height above ground level and it will show you direction, strength and line of sight (why height is important)

I attached the file that TVfool gave me.


Here are the channels I am really wanting to get.

Pittsburgh, PA 22 KDKA-TV CBS 2.n 25
WGPT PBS 36.n 54
WPCB-TV Independent 40.n 50
WPGH-TV FOX 53.n 43
WPMY My TV 22.n 42
WPXI NBC 11.n 48
WQED PBS 13.n 38
WQEX PBS 16.n 26
WTAE-TV ABC 4.n 51



Here is what is offered


Wheeling, WV-Steubenville, OH 155 WTOV-TV NBC 9.n 57
WTRF-TV CBS 7.n 32

[dddane]

Where abouts in Chicago are you? According to atennaweb I'm about 8 miles from all the towers.(locals off Hancock and Sears Tower). I use the below antenna mounted on the back on my house pointing almost due SE which is right at the towers for me.

...i live west of the hancock (near Western Ave), with a great line of sight view of both the hancock and sears tower... i guess the view is great (one of the best skyline views in the city!), though it could be problematic in that sears tower is slightly south east whereas hancock is directly east.

...i guess my confusion is... why does the H20 think I have an OTA antenna hooked up? is this something that's in the options? i haven't really looked because i never noticed you could really hook one up. (i guess i should call DTV and make them send me the antenna, since when i signed up they said it was included in my package!)

..also, if i have an OTA hooked up to my HR20 instead, would i then be able to record more than 2 programs at once (2 from satellite, 1-2 from OTA?) ... or is the hardware just not capable of that much recording at once?

[aramus8]

No, they are taking from the "top" of UHF down (no more channels above 69(?), used to be 83)...not VHF up.The FCC took from the top down in 1985...that's how we got cell phones. I was on the TV Board of a small town at the time and we had to move all our translators to lower frequencies then. The new frequencies they are auctioning are mainly in the VHF band. Also, most of the digital stations on now will stay on the UHF frequency they are currently broadcasting on.

[bagdropper]

I strongly suggest going to avsforum.com, look in their forums for HDTV reception, and within the forum, you'll find threads for your market. Usually, these threads are 50+ pages long with posts from people in your cities. Use this info to decide what antennas/set ups work for your area. This is what I did in CR IA, and I was able to put a rooftop antenna that allows me to receive both Cedar Rapids and Quad Cities (85 miles from towers) locals for about a $150 1 time cost.

My advise is, if you go roof top, do it right...highest gain antenna for your market you can buy (meaning...if you need VHF/UHF or combo), in line mast amp, rotor, etc. It ain't that hard to do a self install, and if you do it right, it'll last as long as you need it.

JMO...spending $150 versus paying DTV $6/month or whatever it is for the rest of your life...easy for me to decide. I doubt I'll go to DTV for locals unless I move and need to.

It'll save you time and money...

[techrep]

I attached the file that TVfool gave me.


Here are the channels I am really wanting to get.

Pittsburgh, PA 22 KDKA-TV CBS 2.n 25
WGPT PBS 36.n 54
WPCB-TV Independent 40.n 50
WPGH-TV FOX 53.n 43
WPMY My TV 22.n 42
WPXI NBC 11.n 48
WQED PBS 13.n 38
WQEX PBS 16.n 26
WTAE-TV ABC 4.n 51



Here is what is offered


Wheeling, WV-Steubenville, OH 155 WTOV-TV NBC 9.n 57
WTRF-TV CBS 7.n 32

I am sorry but those are going to be tough to get. If you look at the top right of your attachment you will see "LOS." Any stations listed at over 200' will be very hard to recieve and will require expensive equipment and installation. The reality of it is, only the stations with los of under 100' and with in 50 miles are reasonable with out extra cost. You can get 4 of the 6 stations at the top of the table with any 4 bay antenna (with in 120* of each other and fairly close) and use a rotar or 2nd antenna for the other 2. Sorry but that is a tough location.

[Kansas Zephyr]

The FCC took from the top down in 1985...that's how we got cell phones. I was on the TV Board of a small town at the time and we had to move all our translators to lower frequencies then. The new frequencies they are auctioning are mainly in the VHF band. Also, most of the digital stations on now will stay on the UHF frequency they are currently broadcasting on.

No...most will go back to VHF if they can. 3 of the 4 VHF analog channels here (Wichita, KS) have already announced their intention of moving back. The exception is KSNW-3, that is only staying on 45 for the previously mentioned ignition noise/multi-path concerns.

UHF "legacy" stations don't have a great a need to go back to their analog channel, and will probably not move.

It is more expensive to run a UHF transmitter. You need more RF power to equal the receivable contour of a lower frequency channel. So, the VHF stations are opting for same/better coverage at a lower electricity/operating cost.

I just checked, it's channels 52-69 that are going this time. You were correct that the 70-83 "chunk" was for pagers/cell phone/"two-way" radio.

[rahchgo]

...i live west of the hancock (near Western Ave), with a great line of sight view of both the hancock and sears tower... i guess the view is great (one of the best skyline views in the city!), though it could be problematic in that sears tower is slightly south east whereas hancock is directly east.

...i guess my confusion is... why does the H20 think I have an OTA antenna hooked up? is this something that's in the options? i haven't really looked because i never noticed you could really hook one up. (i guess i should call DTV and make them send me the antenna, since when i signed up they said it was included in my package!)

..also, if i have an OTA hooked up to my HR20 instead, would i then be able to record more than 2 programs at once (2 from satellite, 1-2 from OTA?) ... or is the hardware just not capable of that much recording at once?

I don't know how H20 programs, but HR20 had to be setup to see OTA. I would think H20 would have similar setup option. You might be able to un-set OTA it that is an option and remove OTA channels in the guide.

That close to downtown you can use rabbit ears. I use rabbit ears that I bought at Target for $10. I had a roof mount antenna that was diplexed with my sat cable. Had to disconnect that to get the new HD channels.

OTA will not allow you to record more than 2 programs.

[K4SMX]

I attached the file that TVfool gave me.


Here are the channels I am really wanting to get.

Pittsburgh, PA 22 KDKA-TV CBS 2.n 25
WGPT PBS 36.n 54
WPCB-TV Independent 40.n 50
WPGH-TV FOX 53.n 43
WPMY My TV 22.n 42
WPXI NBC 11.n 48
WQED PBS 13.n 38
WQEX PBS 16.n 26
WTAE-TV ABC 4.n 51



Here is what is offered


Wheeling, WV-Steubenville, OH 155 WTOV-TV NBC 9.n 57
WTRF-TV CBS 7.n 32
Well that actually looks pretty good to me. Number one, they're all UHF channels. Two, they're all less than 50 miles away and all in the same direction. Three, you're on a hilltop. Four, there's no "toy transmitters" on the list. They're all over 500kw ERP. KDKA is a megawatt. Hopefully they all have circular beam patterns.

I have found some strange things in this OTA business. I get much better signals from some Orlando stations than others, even though they all claim to run similar ERP and are co-located with nearly identical tower heights. I've noticed the PBS stations are frequently a problem, either because of "toy transmitters", excessive number of sub-channels, or both. There's also the issue that UHF TV antennas are by their nature a compromise, and some have better gain characteristics on the higher channels or vice versa.

The 100 dbm table makes assumptions about your elevation which may be inapplicable in your case. Those Pittsburgh stations will propagate over the earth's curvature, but your signal strengths will vary, depending on the time of day. Usually the 8-11 pm time slot is the best for me. There's nothing like being on a hilltop. But I can tell you that UHF signals do not like to go through tree leaves, roof material, etc.

Finally, if you put up an outside antenna, you have erected a lightning rod. Be sure to properly ground it. You can PM me about that issue, because I personally do not think what is "required" is sufficient. I'm real hardcore about that.

[Kansas Zephyr]

Well that actually looks pretty good to me. Number one, they're all UHF channels.

For now...but the ABC/NBC/CBS and one PBS may move their digital signal back to their analog assignment after the analog cutoff.

A call/email to the station's chief engineer can answer that question.

[K4SMX]

For now...but the ABC/NBC/CBS and one PBS may move their digital signal back to their analog assignment after the analog cutoff.

A call/email to the station's chief engineer can answer that question.
Well that's certainly a good idea. I believe I covered that issue above (http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1163332&postcount=27), so he's on notice about that.

As an additional point, most of the UHF channels of interest to you (jtalberts) are the higher channels. This would definitely favor using one of the yagi's which are skewed this way, the Channel Masters being a good example.

[Kansas Zephyr]

Well that's certainly a good idea. I believe I covered that issue above (http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1163332&postcount=27), so he's on notice about that.

Yep...sorry I didn't notice that. ;)

73

[aramus8]

No...most will go back to VHF if they can. 3 of the 4 VHF analog channels here (Wichita, KS) have already announced their intention of moving back.

In the Salt Lake market only 1 of the 7 main VHF stations, which is Fox on 13, plan to move back to VHF. The others are staying put.

[SamC]

Wheeling is one of those markets where the situation on the ground cannot be repeated by DBS. The reality is that, cable has ALWAYS carried the Pittsburgh stations and the two amateurish stations in the market are just there to supplement that, with local news and occasionally different NFL regional choices. Its too small a market to get LIL, and always will be. If TV stations were being allocated today, these channels woudl not exist.

The two stations are WTRF. It is in Wheeling, but the tower is actually directly across the river in Bridgeport, OH. Its channel 7, and the actual DT is 32, the second digital channel (7.2) is marketed as "Fox Ohio Valley" and carries the Fox schedule, news repeats, and old reruns. The other station is Stubenville's WTOV. The tower is actually located in Mingo Junction, OH. It is channel 9, and its DT is 57. The second digital channel (9.2) is NBC Weather Plus. Because there is no ABC, WTOV will carry ABC college football games. West Virginia PBS has a LP repeater on channel 41, which is co-located on an FM station's site on a building in downtown Wheeling.

[Kansas Zephyr]

In the Salt Lake market only 1 of the 7 main VHF stations, which is Fox on 13, plan to move back to VHF. The others are staying put.

My guess is that most of those are VHF low (2-6) and fear the aforementioned ignition noise and multi-path concerns.

With the mountains of Utah, I can understand multi-path!

[longrider]

Back to the OP's situation, I would not get too discouraged by the TVFool report. I am also in a weak signal situation and can receive signals that are weaker than some of the Pittsburgh stations (going by TVFool in my case also) Granted the situation is different, my problems are caused by low power transmitters not distance or terrain. That said it is worth experimenting, what I did was picked up a cheap Radio shack UHF antenna and a preamp, put in on a 10' mast and zip tied it to my deck railing. That gave me a decent lock on the stronger stations and glimpses of the weak stations. This made it look promising enough I got a good antenna and preamp (CM 4228 and 7777) along with a 30' telescoping mast. Assembled everything but ran out of time to extend and guy the mast that first day so it is sitting at about 15'. Hooked it up anyway and got good signals from all the stations so it is still at 15' today.

Now that you have the whole story, I would give it a try.

[K4SMX]

Back to the OP's situation, I would not get too discouraged by the TVFool report. I am also in a weak signal situation and can receive signals that are weaker than some of the Pittsburgh stations (going by TVFool in my case also) Granted the situation is different, my problems are caused by low power transmitters not distance or terrain. That said it is worth experimenting, what I did was picked up a cheap Radio shack UHF antenna and a preamp, put in on a 10' mast and zip tied it to my deck railing. That gave me a decent lock on the stronger stations and glimpses of the weak stations. This made it look promising enough I got a good antenna and preamp (CM 4228 and 7777) along with a 30' telescoping mast. Assembled everything but ran out of time to extend and guy the mast that first day so it is sitting at about 15'. Hooked it up anyway and got good signals from all the stations so it is still at 15' today.

Now that you have the whole story, I would give it a try.
The little CM 3022's are amazingly good, considering their size, for near to medium fringe. Plus, you can end mount them. The thing is not that far behind it's big brother, whose number I can't remember, and which I'm not sure they still manufacture, but which is at least twice as big and must be center-mounted on the boom. My main OTA antennas, though.

[jtalberts]

Back to the OP's situation, I would not get too discouraged by the TVFool report. I am also in a weak signal situation and can receive signals that are weaker than some of the Pittsburgh stations (going by TVFool in my case also) Granted the situation is different, my problems are caused by low power transmitters not distance or terrain. That said it is worth experimenting, what I did was picked up a cheap Radio shack UHF antenna and a preamp, put in on a 10' mast and zip tied it to my deck railing. That gave me a decent lock on the stronger stations and glimpses of the weak stations. This made it look promising enough I got a good antenna and preamp (CM 4228 and 7777) along with a 30' telescoping mast. Assembled everything but ran out of time to extend and guy the mast that first day so it is sitting at about 15'. Hooked it up anyway and got good signals from all the stations so it is still at 15' today.

Now that you have the whole story, I would give it a try.


That is a pretty good idea to try. Now I just need Directv to update my freaking zipcode for my boxes to my new one. My boxes zip code still thinks they are located in Dayton, Oh and they still list the old locals.

[K4SMX]

That is a pretty good idea to try. Now I just need Directv to update my freaking zipcode for my boxes to my new one. My boxes zip code still thinks they are located in Dayton, Oh and they still list the old locals.
Did you not input your zip codes yourself in the setup menu? Or are you saying that they have not changed your locals you're entitled to receive yet based on your move.

[jtalberts]

Did you not input your zip codes yourself in the setup menu? Or are you saying that they have not changed your locals you're entitled to receive yet based on your move.

I have looked for a spot to input my zipcode and I can't find it. I wont receive any locals. I just see the Dayton local channels listed in the guide. I can't watch them though, and I understand why.


How do I go about changing my zip on the box in the setup menu. I have an H20.

[ChicagoTC]

...i live west of the hancock (near Western Ave), with a great line of sight view of both the hancock and sears tower... i guess the view is great (one of the best skyline views in the city!), though it could be problematic in that sears tower is slightly south east whereas hancock is directly east.

...i guess my confusion is... why does the H20 think I have an OTA antenna hooked up? is this something that's in the options? i haven't really looked because i never noticed you could really hook one up. (i guess i should call DTV and make them send me the antenna, since when i signed up they said it was included in my package!)

..also, if i have an OTA hooked up to my HR20 instead, would i then be able to record more than 2 programs at once (2 from satellite, 1-2 from OTA?) ... or is the hardware just not capable of that much recording at once?

Both the H20 and HR20 accept OTA connections. There is an option in the setup option for both boxes to "turn it on or off" I wouldn't bother calling D* for antenna. If they do provide one most likely it will be UHF only and you won't get 2.1 CBS. CBS doesn't have any additional subchannels so if you get HD locals this might not be a concern. I like having OTA options for all my channels in the event of a bad storm I can still watch OTA if the sat goes down.

As someone else mentioned on Western and Chicago-ish you can get away with an indoor antenna and not worry about diplexing and BBC placement. I've heard good things about the Sharp Shooter. I've linked it below, I'd give it a shot.

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=SS3000

Even cheaper is the silver sensor, however this is UHF only(no CBS 2.1)
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?main_cat=03&CAT=&PROD=ZHDTV1&xfermeth=directg&gclid=CNuVzej9444CFRcbWAodpjkXQw

That might even be overkill for you. Maybe even try $10 rabbit ears first.

[Rakul]

I have looked for a spot to input my zipcode and I can't find it. I wont receive any locals. I just see the Dayton local channels listed in the guide. I can't watch them though, and I understand why.


How do I go about changing my zip on the box in the setup menu. I have an H20.

I have an HR20 so this might not be the exact path for the H20 but on mine its:

Menu > Help & Settings > Setup > Sat & Ant > Antenna Setup and then follow the prompts.

[jtalberts]

I have an HR20 so this might not be the exact path for the H20 but on mine its:

Menu > Help & Settings > Setup > Sat & Ant > Antenna Setup and then follow the prompts.

Worked great. Thanks.

[jtalberts]

Well,


I did a little test with Longrider's idea. I bought this little $8 VHF/UHF antenna from a discount store to see how well it would work. At first I hooked it up straight to the H20 and tried to see what I could pick up. I got the local CBS station with no problems at all. I had a problem getting the NBC station, but when I had my wife hold onto the antenna, I got a jump from 0% strength to 80% strength. So I could keep this antenna and have her just hold onto it when I wanted to watch NBC, but I don't think she will go for it. So later in the day I decided to do a little more research and see what I could get if I took the antenna outside and hooked it up. I receive all of the Pittsburgh stations that I wanted to get except for their NBC station. I got everything that I wanted to get but 2 stations with this little junky thing. I didn't even have it on the roof. It was sitting on a plastic ladder 5 feet off the ground and I was getting great reception. It would cut out every now and then, but I figured with the lame setup that would happen.

So, I think that if I buy a decent enough antenna, then I will be able to get all the channels I was wanting to get. However, I don't know if I will need to get a rotor for the antenna. I didn't have to move this antenna around to receive the signals any better. I don't know if that is because the style varies or because the signal is so strong up there.

[K4SMX]

I was pretty sure that this would work out a lot better than the TVFools website would lead you to believe, based on your hilltop location. Take a look at the Channel Master 3022 (http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=ANCM3022). Very unobtrusive and can be end-mounted to the side of your house. I throw one in the back of the car for measuring expected OTA signal strengths from potential locations.

[jtalberts]

Alright, here is what I ordered from solidsignal. I didn't purchase the rotor because I don't think I am going to need it based on my tests. I am going to have a busy week and weekend getting ready for this install. I have a lot of cable that needs to be run to a few rooms for the OTA, so that might take awhile.



-Channel Master CM 4228 8-Bay Bowtie UHF Antenna (CM4228) | Qty: 1
-Channel Master CM 3092 3 ft Tripod Mount (CM3092) | Qty: 1
-Channel Master CM 1805 5ft Galvinized Mast (CM1805) | Qty: 1
-OPEN BOX ITEM - Channel Master 7777 Titan2 VHF/UHF Preamplifier with Power Supply (CM7777) | Qty: 1
-Single Grounding Block - One RG-6 Cable | Qty: 1
-Copper Ground Wire #10 Gauge - 100 Ft | Qty: 1
-Perfect Vision PVLLC Snap n Seal Linear Compression Crimp Tool (PVLLC) | Qty: 1
-PPC EX6XL RG6 Compression F-Connector (EX6XL) | Qty: 1
-Perfect Vision RG59 RG6 Coax Cable Stripper (PV25321) | Qty: 1
-4 Way Splitter 5-1000 Mhz | Qty: 1

[mattw]

I just replaced a Radio Shack pre amp with the CM7777. I ran into an issue with this where it was actually deliver TOO much amplification. One of the devices I feed is a 3 1/2 year old Hitatchi. It seems to be rather sensitive to multipath. Due to a suggestions I received from VOS I included a $10 variable attenuator. When I hooked everything up the TV was showing around 10 (unusable) and in the 60's for the HR20. When I put the attenuator in and dialed it to between 1/2 and 3/4 of the available attenuation the signal meters increased. The TV now reads between high 50's to 80'. The HR20 shows 100 on most channels and in the 80's for the outliers.

My wiring box has an 8 way splitter left from the previous owners cable. I removed the attenuator and ran my signals through the 8 way splitter. The signal levels dropped about 5 points on the Hitachi but still showing 100 on the HR20. That's what I'm running it through now. I have a total of about 80' of RG6 plus an additional 3 way splitter in the mix. I did not test the FM trap in which is the factory default. I am also feeding the FM receiver from this antenna so I didn't want to turn it off.

With this setup, even the analog stations look good.

I just wanted to prepare you that when you first hook up the amp it might get worse until you find the right signal levels.

[K4SMX]

I doubt if you'll need that amp at all, based on your earlier experiments. It might cause the kind of problems mentioned by mattw, which are common. If you're going to use a roof tri-pod, better pick up a ground rod from Lowe's/HD, etc., and use that 100' of #10 (I think it's actually s'posed to be #6) to run around the house from the ground rod to your service ground. Then use some #4 solid copper from the antenna to the ground rod, also from Lowe's/HD, etc. Run your coax straight to the ground rod location, go through the grounding block there, and bond the block to the ground rod.

[parkerdt]

Hey there jtalberts! I used to work with you at R&R in Dayton. You really don't want the antenna that DTV provided, anyway, it was bare minimum to get the job done. You may remember that Mark E. swapped his DTV provided one out and relocated it a few times to get decent reception...

Having said that, here, I've got one in my attic and can get all the Greensboro and Raleigh Durham locals OTA. From your description, I would think you can get a similar result with a decent antenna. Check out antennaweb.org if you haven't already - they will at least give you a decent idea of direction, and whether you need a rotor. in my case the stations are almost exactly 180 degrees from each other, so I just got the best omni and amp I could find. Works like a champ.

Dave


Really I would like both, but I don't want a huge antenna so I would like just the HD's.


I live 10 minutes from the WV/PA border. There is a town that is located practically on the border. They receive all their locals from Pittsburgh. I get stuck with the Wheeling, WV locals. On basic cable, in Wheeling, you receive the Pittsburgh Local channels. Is there any way to petition so that I could get the local channels for Pittsburgh?

[steelerfanmike]

Hopefully you have a HD receiver or a digital tuner on your TV.
If your that close to Pittsburgh why don't you try rabbit ears that digital signal is VERY strong and I bet you'll pick up a bunch of sub channels also.

Don't give up. get a long wire and put the rabbit ears outside.

Good luck Mike



Really I would like both, but I don't want a huge antenna so I would like just the HD's.


I live 10 minutes from the WV/PA border. There is a town that is located practically on the border. They receive all their locals from Pittsburgh. I get stuck with the Wheeling, WV locals. On basic cable, in Wheeling, you receive the Pittsburgh Local channels. Is there any way to petition so that I could get the local channels for Pittsburgh?

[j2fast]

I think that with what you're getting you should be fine. I'm about an hour directly north of you (about 40 miles give/take from the PIT towers) and get everything just fine using a roof mounted antenna/amp combo. Most of the PIT towers are fairly close together, you may be able to get all of the networks without needing to turn the antenna.

[jtalberts]

UPDATE!!!


I got all my equipment and I haven't had the chance to do the full install for the antenna yet. I am digging fence post holes for my yard.


I built the antenna and connected it outback. I just have it sitting on my patio and I pick up every channel that I wanted. I am more than happy with what I got.

Thanks to all of you for helping me!!!!!!!!!!!!

[gcisko]

on the non-DVR one i *SEE* the local channels that are transmitted OTA in the guide, but can't tune them. it's really annoying. and i often get confused at which one i'm supposed to use. but the fact that i see them in the guide makes me wonder if it's capable of having an OTA hooked up and if i should then call directv to demand one.


I won't even get into why you would want to call D* to demand an antenna. That does not seem cool.

Yes your HR20 will still be able to use an OTA antenna. Why in the world would you think it does not? D* apparently are not selling the OTA antenna they used to sell. That does not mean you cannot have OTA. Just go to a local menards and look for a Phillips MANT-90. That is what I use and it gets all the chicago locals just fine. I use it regularly with my HR20 to record 11-1 which D* does not have.