HR20 and DVR Fee?

[RickMilw]

My package was the Plus HD DVR service until 9/17/07. At that time, I switched over to Premier with HD Access on the D* website. When I made the change, one of the checkmarks was DirecTV DVR service, but it was already selected and grayed out. At the billing summary it said DirecTV DVR service $0.00 included in base package. This morning I had to call D* because I was not getting the Starz HD signal. The CSR removed and added my programming and it started working. However, a $5.99 charge for DirecTV DVR service is now on my account. I called D* and they said the DVR service is optional. However, I can't remove it because the checkmark is grayed out. The CSR gave me a year of free DVR and said after the year I can call and cancel the service. If I remove DVR service, will the HR20 stop recording? I think this is a lot of baloney since the HR20 has a built-in DVR.

[say-what]

If you remove the dvr fee, the HR20 will not record. Until July, the dvr fee was included with the Premier service. Since Aug 1, you have to pay the dvr fee in addition to the fee for the Premier package if you're a new subscriber to the package. People subscribing to Premier prior to Aug 1 are grandfathered until they make a package change.

[RickMilw]

If you remove the dvr fee, the HR20 will not record. Until July, the dvr fee was included with the Premier service. Since Aug 1, you have to pay the dvr fee in addition to the fee for the Premier package if you're a new subscriber to the package. People subscribing to Premier prior to Aug 1 are grandfathered until they make a package change.

Thanks for the info. Funny that the receiver would stop recording if you don't pay the fee when it's built in.

[say-what]

Thanks for the info. Funny that the receiver would stop recording if you don't pay the fee when it's built in.
It's how the TIVO works (DirecTIVO or standalone). Don't pay the fee, don't get the recorder service, just another set top box.

[scubawoman]

If you remove the dvr fee, the HR20 will not record. Until July, the dvr fee was included with the Premier service. Since Aug 1, you have to pay the dvr fee in addition to the fee for the Premier package if you're a new subscriber to the package. People subscribing to Premier prior to Aug 1 are grandfathered until they make a package change.

I've had dvr service and the premier package ever since directv has had the service. I haven't changed my programming package but just completed the equipment switch to the mpeg4 machines. I am now being charged the$5.99 dvr fee. When I called about it I was told they would give me a year for free as well. They said starting July 1 everyone is charged the dvr fee. Is there someone specific at directv that you spoke to that said people are grandfathered in?

[lokar]

This extra $5.99 charge happened to me too with the Plus HD DVR package. It took a few emails but they finally straightened it out and even credited me for the time I was wrongly charged. As a side note, if you don't have DVR service, not only can you not record anything but you can't even watch what you have already recorded.

[cartrivision]

It's how the TIVO works (DirecTIVO or standalone). Don't pay the fee, don't get the recorder service, just another set top box.

From what I understand, if you don't have DVR service enabled on your account, you also lose the ability to watch stuff that was previously recorded, unless you stop using the box as a receiver altogether by disconnecting it from the sat inputs before you discontinue DVR service, at which time they disable all recording and playback for the box.

[RickMilw]

I've had dvr service and the premier package ever since directv has had the service. I haven't changed my programming package but just completed the equipment switch to the mpeg4 machines. I am now being charged the$5.99 dvr fee. When I called about it I was told they would give me a year for free as well. They said starting July 1 everyone is charged the dvr fee. Is there someone specific at directv that you spoke to that said people are grandfathered in?

I did have a package change Plus HD DVR --> Premier, but after I made the change, the summary screen noted the DVR fee as $0.00/included in base package. It wasn't until yesterday when I called to complain that my Starz HD was displaying a 721 message that the fee showed up. All they did was give me a free year of DVR service, even though the CSR I spoke to put me on hold for like 15 minutes before she could explain to me what had happened. I called D* from work and the worse part was when I got home I HAD TO CALL AGAIN because the DVR feature was not working. Didn't get anything this time, just a "We apologize for the inconvenience".

[HolmesCo]

Yup I changed to Premiere yesterday and they would not remove that dvr fee like they used to. Its a new thing since july I guess. I already am getting discounts etc from my 2nd HR20 pruchase, so couldn't push the envelope anymore. Kinda stinks though. I think D(* is getting too greedy! I am regular ST and EI customer, and also the extra packaes that come with each. I don't think it would kill them to give me $5 credit for 6 months or something. Too greedy.

[RickMilw]

My issue is if the DVR is part of the receiver (all the work is done by the receiver) then D* should not charge the fee. It's not like any extra burden on D*. Maybe we should start the "Drop the DVR fee" campaign. :D

[HolmesCo]

My issue is if the DVR is part of the receiver (all the work is done by the receiver) then D* should not charge the fee. It's not like any extra burden on D*. Maybe we should start the "Drop the DVR fee" campaign. :D

I know, you pay $300 for the thing, and all these fees for programming, then they have this "DVR Fee" It is pretty bogus when I think about it. Just a way to glean more money. Then they act like aren't we nice that we only charge that once, not for every DVR you have. LOL Whoopeee! You are too too kind!

[slider65]

I know, you pay $300 for the thing, and all these fees for programming, then they have this "DVR Fee" It is pretty bogus when I think about it. Just a way to glean more money. Then they act like aren't we nice that we only charge that once, not for every DVR you have. LOL Whoopeee! You are too too kind!

Well, to chime in with my $.02 - I've been paying the DVR fee for years as I have had DTV TiVo for as long as I've had DTV. It's a bargain IMHO - TiVo charges you $14.95/month for their DVR service on their stand-alone recorders (non-sat), and them an additional fee per TiVo. We only pay one fee for our service. I have 3 DVRs (two DTiVos and one HR20), and I only pay $5.99/month. With TiVo that would cost me a lot more.

What you're also paying for is software updates - they have to pay people for that, they're not going to just eat that extra cost. It's not just bug fixes either, sometimes they actually listen to us and add features we ask for. That all costs money.

I've been a long-time DTV and TiVo subscriber, and I don't always like the things that DTV decides to do, and the TiVo interface is much better than the HR20, but all in all, I don't think $5.99 is a bad deal. Of course, I got my HR20 for free since I already had an HR10 for years, so I'm a little biased :lol:

Tom

[Sirshagg]

I must agree that $5.99/mo for the DVR fee per account no matter how many DVR's you have is a bargain.

[HolmesCo]

I must agree that $5.99/mo for the DVR fee per account no matter how many DVR's you have is a bargain.

To me it's akin to buying a car then having to pay $6 a month 'key fee' A fee to be allowed to put the key in the ignition.

Maybe it serves some purpose that I am not aware of, but on the surface it merely looks like a name they can put on something, in order to make more money. What exactly IS a DVR Fee?

I have to admit, I never even thought about this till this very morning, but it really is sort of puzzling to me and just looks like a "glean as much money as you can" fee to me. We technically do not own the HR20, some paid 200 or 300 for its use, we pay a significant amount of money for programming, an HD fee, a receiver fee.

Not really bitching here, just not sure I understand what I am paying for here, other than to line thier pockets more. We are already paying the "receiver fee", why should it be more than double to have that receiver be a dvr, which we don't own, which we paid plenty for its use. Just doesn't make much sense to me.

[Sirshagg]

To me it's akin to buying a car then having to pay $6 a month 'key fee' A fee to be allowed to put the key in the ignition.

Maybe it serves some purpose that I am not aware of, but on the surface it merely looks like a name they can put on something, in order to make more money. What exactly IS a DVR Fee?

I have to admit, I never even thought about this till this very morning, but it really is sort of puzzling to me and just looks like a "glean as much money as you can" fee to me. We technically do not own the HR20, some paid 200 or 300 for its use, we pay a significant amount of money for programming, an HD fee, a receiver fee.

Not really bitching here, just not sure I understand what I am paying for here, other than to line thier pockets more. We are already paying the "receiver fee", why should it be more than double to have that receiver be a dvr, which we don't own, which we paid plenty for its use. Just doesn't make much sense to me.

You are paying a monthly fee for the ability to time shift the programming you receive instead of being forced to watch it when it airs.

[HolmesCo]

You are paying a monthly fee for the ability to time shift the programming you receive instead of being forced to watch it when it airs.

That may have some merit. But isn't that what I paid for with my $300?

[Sirshagg]

That may have some merit. But isn't that what I paid for with my $300?

Yeah that's where it gets tricky. The $300 was for the hardware capable of doing HD time shifting NOT the timeshifting service itself.

[slider65]

Yeah that's where it gets tricky. The $300 was for the hardware capable of doing HD time shifting NOT the timeshifting service itself.

Good point, Sir, and like I said before - the DVR fee also pays for upgrades and maintenance for the software that runs the DVR. As a former programmer, I don't like to work for free. People write that software and people like to eat ;)

[HolmesCo]

Does it also pay for "Recording was cancelled due to suddenly becoming unavailabe"
and Recording was cancelled reason unknown.

If this fee is allegedly going to the programmers then how about more reliablity?

[HolmesCo]

Does it also pay for "Recording was cancelled due to suddenly becoming unavailabe"
and Recording was cancelled reason unknown.

If this fee is allegedly going to the programmers then how about more reliablity?

To reoply to myself...Ok yes, I realize how much has been done since november when I got mine. Just a bit frustrated right now. I hope theres a new ce this weekend and it fixes it. I saw also one guy said he rebooted and it fixed it.

[slider65]

To reoply to myself...Ok yes, I realize how much has been done since november when I got mine. Just a bit frustrated right now. I hope theres a new ce this weekend and it fixes it. I saw also one guy said he rebooted and it fixed it.

HolmesCo,

I totally understand - some will say it's bad guide data or whatever, but my HR10 recorded Greys Anatomy last night just fine, which is more than I can say for other's HR20s. I agree that DTV needs to get their act together on this DVR, and I think they owe a bunch of people refunds on their DVR fees for some number of months. Maybe they should just stop charging the fee until the severe bugs are worked out, but it doesn't invalidate the fee itself. You can spend $600 or $300 on an HD stand-alone TiVo and you still have to pay $14.95 a month for the DVR service. You can subscribe to cable and they still charge an extra fee for the DVR service. You can build a home theater PC for a few grand that will do the same thing.

There are many other topics that chronicle all of the bad things happening with the HR20. Hardly anyone posts to this forum saying that their HR20 is fine - what would be the point. The forum is generally for help with problems, so that's what gets posted. I'm a long-time TiVo fan and the HR20 is not as good as the TiVo. It does some things better, others not so much, and it is more unreliable then the TiVo, for now. Barring some hardware issue, these problems will be fixed in time. I'm one of the lucky ones that has had no problems - I also record most of my local HD shows OTA vs. sat., so that may be helping me.

But I digress, this thread is about the fee itself, and the validity of charging a DVR fee at all, not about the problems with HR20, frustrating as they are. I stand by my assessment that the fee is a reasonable and customary fee, and in fact, inexpensive when compared to most other options.

[Sirshagg]

Does it also pay for "Recording was cancelled due to suddenly becoming unavailabe"
and Recording was cancelled reason unknown.

If this fee is allegedly going to the programmers then how about more reliablity?

Agreed

[HolmesCo]

slider, yes I agree with pretty much all you say. I esp wasn't aware what others were charging, though I hardly think that justifies it. LOL But such is life and reality, given all that, D* is far more reasonable.

This is really the first serious problem Ihave had with the HR20 in 10 months, so guess I have been relatively lucky. I imagine they will work it out in time, esp as it seems many are being affected by it (recordings getting randomly cancelled) and seems to be CE as well as National Releases, and recent. Puzzling situation.

[eibook]

I know, you pay $300 for the thing, and all these fees for programming, then they have this "DVR Fee" It is pretty bogus when I think about it. Just a way to glean more money. Then they act like aren't we nice that we only charge that once, not for every DVR you have. LOL Whoopeee! You are too too kind!

We pay $300 to LEASE the thing. Not only do we pay a $5.99 "DVR Fee" some of us pay a $5.99 "Protection Plan Fee" to protect the equipment we are leasing!

[slider65]

We pay $300 to LEASE the thing. Not only do we pay a $5.99 "DVR Fee" some of us pay a $5.99 "Protection Plan Fee" to protect the equipment we are leasing!

I agree - I'm not sure what the heck a "lease upgrade fee" means, and I was lucky that I didn't pay one when I got my HR20 since I owned an HR10 for a few years. I could understand the protection fee if you actually owned the equipment, but I don't understand what it gets you if you're leasing. I wouldn't (and don't) pay it.

[MikeekiM]

To be honest, the whole leasing thing bothered me...at first... but these units only work with DirecTV anyway... why would I want it if it won't work outside of DirecTV?

Second, the upfront cost is for the hardware (whether it is a lease or a purchase)... The monthly fee is for the service... Take the cellphone industry as an example... You buy the phone, and you can't use it unless you pay the monthly service fees... Pretty simple...

And if phones costed $1000, I bet Verizon, Sprint and others would likely put a leasing program in place to lower the cost of acquisition...even though it would mean that it doesn't truly belong to you... (and again, if I have a phone that works on Verizon and I switch to Sprint, why do I care to own a Verizon phone?)

I am as "cost aware" as all of you are...please don't get me wrong... I would love to feel like I pay several hundred dollars to OWN my unit...not just to borrow it... and I would also love to get the service for free as well...

But in my mind, I understand the model...even if I don't love it...

[Sirshagg]

To be honest, the whole leasing thing bothered me...at first... but these units only work with DirecTV anyway... why would I want it if it won't work outside of DirecTV?

Second, the upfront cost is for the hardware (whether it is a lease or a purchase)... The monthly fee is for the service... Take the cellphone industry as an example... You buy the phone, and you can't use it unless you pay the monthly service fees... Pretty simple...

And if phones costed $1000, I bet Verizon, Sprint and others would likely put a leasing program in place to lower the cost of acquisition...even though it would mean that it doesn't truly belong to you... (and again, if I have a phone that works on Verizon and I switch to Sprint, why do I care to own a Verizon phone?)

I am as "cost aware" as all of you are...please don't get me wrong... I would love to feel like I pay several hundred dollars to OWN my unit...not just to borrow it... and I would also love to get the service for free as well...

But in my mind, I understand the model...even if I don't love it...

The issue most people seem to have with the lease vs own is that even though they cant use the hardware if they leave they can get something for it on ebay of they own it (same for your cell pone).

I also recall reading some threads where D* says the HR20 costs are in the mid $400's and going down, not $1000. http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1138571&postcount=12

[ursamagus]

I could understand the protection fee if you actually owned the equipment, but I don't understand what it gets you if you're leasing. I wouldn't (and don't) pay it.

It keeps you from being forced into a new two year contract. My HR 10 was killed by an update and the only way that D* would replace it was to force me to agree to a new two year contract. Even though they were responsible for the damage and I had a year left on my old contract I had to make a choice of no DVR (just use SD unit) or capitulate. Can you tell I'm still a bit bitter:mad: Oh yea, it saves you the shipping cost as well. What a bargain:D

[MikeekiM]

The issue most people seem to have with the lease vs own is that even though they cant use the hardware if they leave they can get something for it on ebay of they own it (same for your cell pone).

I also recall reading some threads where D* says the HR20 costs are in the mid $400's and going down, not $1000. http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1138571&postcount=12

Agreed...resale is the benefit... I am not going to debate current costs (cuz I know nothing about them)... My understanding is based on very old information...

When I was going to go for an HR10-250, I had the option to purchase for $750, or lease for $250... So at that time (again admittedly on out of date information), I have the choice of spending $500 more for the benefit of some recovery at resale...

Insert today's prices, and it would be interesting to see how much more you'd have to pay for the pleasure of having something that you could try and sell later...

[RickMilw]

We pay $300 to LEASE the thing. Not only do we pay a $5.99 "DVR Fee" some of us pay a $5.99 "Protection Plan Fee" to protect the equipment we are leasing!

Good question. If I'm leasing, and D* OWNS the box, why should I pay for a service plan. It's THEIR box and if it breaks (not by negligence of the user), they should repair it at THEIR expense.

I still prefer D* over E*, but when I had E*, I had a DVR go bad 3 times and they replaced it at no cost to me. Heck, they even sent the boxes to return them.

They even paid for the UPS shipping to send me the new unit and for me to return the old one.

[eibook]

Good question. If I'm leasing, and D* OWNS the box, why should I pay for a service plan. It's THEIR box and if it breaks (not by negligence of the user), they should repair it at THEIR expense.

I still prefer D* over E*, but when I had E*, I had a DVR go bad 3 times and they replaced it at no cost to me. Heck, they even sent the boxes to return them.

They even paid for the UPS shipping to send me the new unit and for me to return the old one.


You can have that with D*.....if you pay for the protection plan.

[HolmesCo]

I pondered whetehr to keep the protection plan or not when I got the HR20, and decided to keep it, as I have Tivos, and a regular receiver as well. And it covers the remotes, dish, and what not. I don't imagine dishe's fail much, but it could be pretty costly I guess if an LNB went south, also have a multiswitch, so for me I am probably better off with the plan. You have to remember it covers whats outside as well as in, and all cabling etc.

[MikeekiM]

You can have that with D*.....if you pay for the protection plan.

Hmmm... I was told that with the lease, that if anything goes wrong with it...that they would cover it...

[RickMilw]

Hmmm... I was told that with the lease, that if anything goes wrong with it...that they would cover it...

My point exactly. IT'S THEIR BOX and I'm paying a lease on it. If something goes wrong with it and not due to negligence on my part they should repair/replace at their expense.

Same way as when I rent a house/apartment. Something breaks, landlord repairs...as long as I didn't purposely caused the damage.

[fwlogue]

slider, yes I agree with pretty much all you say. I esp wasn't aware what others were charging, though I hardly think that justifies it. LOL But such is life and reality, given all that, D* is far more reasonable.

This is really the first serious problem Ihave had with the HR20 in 10 months, so guess I have been relatively lucky. I imagine they will work it out in time, esp as it seems many are being affected by it (recordings getting randomly cancelled) and seems to be CE as well as National Releases, and recent. Puzzling situation.

Here where I am at Cox Cable charges a fee for each and Every DVR you have not just one fee to cover all DVR's. If you want 3 HD DVr's as I have it is 5.50 per unit per month for lease fee and 9.50 per unit for DVR fee. I have 3 HD DVR I pay 20.96 to Directv for the three of them monthly If I went to cable I would pay $45.00 to them for the same equipment.

[fwlogue]

Hmmm... I was told that with the lease, that if anything goes wrong with it...that they would cover it...

They do cover the cost to replace the equipment. You have to cover the cost of shipping. Unless you have the maintenance plan

[MikeekiM]

They do cover the cost to replace the equipment. You have to cover the cost of shipping. Unless you have the maintenance plan

Seems reasonable to me...

[HolmesCo]

Here where I am at Cox Cable charges a fee for each and Every DVR you have not just one fee to cover all DVR's. If you want 3 HD DVr's as I have it is 5.50 per unit per month for lease fee and 9.50 per unit for DVR fee. I have 3 HD DVR I pay 20.96 to Directv for the three of them monthly If I went to cable I would pay $45.00 to them for the same equipment.

gees what a ripoff. THey all are overpricing IMO, but at least D* is a lot more down to earth it seems. Thats one way they get customers leaving comcast probably, not to mention the far superior picture, at least in my experience. Ihad both cable and D* for a few months, on different inputs , so I could tune each to same show. No comparison in PQ, and this was long before the hr20 and any upconverting, just the plain rca D* receiver.

OK I give! The dvr fee is great. LOL Well at least its far less ripoff than comcast.

[Sirshagg]

OK I give! The dvr fee is great. LOL Well at least its far less ripoff than comcast.

And Time Warner, and Cox, and Tivo.

We wore you down :)

[slider65]

And Time Warner, and Cox, and Tivo.

We wore you down :)

LOL - Who would have thought a thread with such an innocuous title would get so much traffic. :lol:

[RickMilw]

LOL - Who would have thought a thread with such an innocuous title would get so much traffic. :lol:

I was just thinking that :lol:

[art_z]

And if phones costed $1000, I bet Verizon, Sprint and others would likely put a leasing program in place to lower the cost of acquisition...even though it would mean that it doesn't truly belong to you... (and again, if I have a phone that works on Verizon and I switch to Sprint, why do I care to own a Verizon phone?)...

this in fact did happen several times, first when analog phones were very expensive and then again when digital first came out and were also pricey. Bell Atlantic, who I worked for, had lease programs to help people get equipment.

[Doug Brott]

My issue is if the DVR is part of the receiver (all the work is done by the receiver) then D* should not charge the fee. It's not like any extra burden on D*. Maybe we should start the "Drop the DVR fee" campaign. :D

Ah, but you're confusing things slightly. Really the software on the DVR is licensed, not owned. DIRECTV is simply charging a license fee for you to use it.

[Tubaman-Z]

Here where I am at Cox Cable charges a fee for each and Every DVR you have not just one fee to cover all DVR's. If you want 3 HD DVr's as I have it is 5.50 per unit per month for lease fee and 9.50 per unit for DVR fee. I have 3 HD DVR I pay 20.96 to Directv for the three of them monthly If I went to cable I would pay $45.00 to them for the same equipment.

What would the upfront cost be for the Cox Cable boxes? If you have 3 HD DVRs from DirecTV and paid $200 each for them (I know, I know - mileage varies widely), you'd have sunk $600 before your $20.96/month. Thus, how far out is the crossover point?

I frankly don't mind the DVR fee. To me the DVR service is a distinct value-add that I am willing to pay monthly for (similar to a newspaper or magazine subscription). I now have 3 DirecTiVos and 1 HR20 and thus $1.50/month each isn't bad. What DOES bug me is the receiver fee...on top of the programming fee....on top of the initial box cost. If the receiver fee is to make up for the difference between actual cost and discounted cost to subscribers, it should go away at some point when I've paid the actual cost. If the fee is to "have the receiver active and receive programming", shouldn't it be part of the programming fee? I don't see how there is an incremental cost to DirecTV to support 1 receiver or 4 (multiple accounts, yes - multiple receivers per account, no). My view is that it is broken out this way to make each individual piece seem less expensive. But perhaps that is just the cynic in me.... ;)

[amallon]

Second, the upfront cost is for the hardware (whether it is a lease or a purchase)... The monthly fee is for the service... Take the cellphone industry as an example... You buy the phone, and you can't use it unless you pay the monthly service fees... Pretty simple...


What service am I getting for my DVR fee? Everything needed to record and watch programs is handled client-side, by the HR20 itself. DirecTV is sending the HR20 the same guide data that all their non-DVR receivers get. What does DirectTV have to provide separately and on an on-going basis for DVR users that it doesn't have to provide to its other customers? Nothing, as far as I can tell.

And I'd gladly stop paying the DVR fee in echange for not getting another software update on the box again. I've had my HR20 for a year now and there has yet to be one new feature added that justifies the DVR fee.

[Sirshagg]

What service am I getting for my DVR fee?

You are paying a monthly fee for the ability to time shift the programming you receive instead of being forced to watch it when it airs.

already answered.

[amallon]

already answered.

Not really. I bought (well, leased) a product that provides me with the ability to time-shift programs. DirecTV just won't let me use that product until I pay them a monthly service fee that they invented out of thin air.

[Doug Brott]

Not really. I bought (well, leased) a product that provides me with the ability to time-shift programs. DirecTV just won't let me use that product until I pay them a monthly service fee that they invented out of thin air.

yep, not like a lot of other companies out there. I know our company charges an annual license fee for the software that we sell. Don't pay next year and you don't get to use it any more. Same concept with DIRECTV.

[amallon]

yep, not like a lot of other companies out there. I know our company charges an annual license fee for the software that we sell. Don't pay next year and you don't get to use it any more. Same concept with DIRECTV.

We're not talking about enterprise-wide software applications here. We're talking about consumer electronics, which don't traditionally have ongoing software licensing fees associated with them. I certainly don't want this to become the norm.

[Sirshagg]

Not really. I bought (well, leased) a product that provides me with the ability to time-shift programs. DirecTV just won't let me use that product until I pay them a monthly service fee that they invented out of thin air.

That is where you are mistaken. You bought (or leased) a piece of hardware capable of supporting the time shifting software. Any odds are that you knew full well that you would also have to pay the monthly DVR fee for the software based service.

[amallon]

That is where you are mistaken. You bought (or leased) a piece of hardware capable of supporting the time shifting software. Any odds are that you knew full well that you would also have to pay the monthly DVR fee for the software based service.

Of course I knew I had to pay the monthly fee. That doesn't mean that I have to like it or accept justifications for the fee. And the HR20 is a product like other time-shifting devices like VCRs and DVD Recorders. Putting a hard drive instead of a DVD drive or tape assembly in the box doesn't suddenly make these products a service.

[Sirshagg]

We're not talking about enterprise-wide software applications here. We're talking about consumer electronics, which don't traditionally have ongoing software licensing fees associated with them. I certainly don't want this to become the norm.

I agree and would rather not see it as the norm either but that does seem to be the direction many things are going.

As for DVR's tell me who charges less for DVR service than DirecTV, especially if you have more than one DVR.

[Doug Brott]

We're not talking about enterprise-wide software applications here. We're talking about consumer electronics, which don't traditionally have ongoing software licensing fees associated with them. I certainly don't want this to become the norm.

Been that way on my TiVo since 2000, not sure how this is different.

[amallon]

Been that way on my TiVo since 2000, not sure how this is different.

It's a little different situation than TiVo, though. TiVo originally justified charging a monthly fee because they had to pay for providing the guide data and for any phone surcharges. They also had a lifetime subscription option where you could pay the fee upfront. I still have a series 1-lifetime that I bought in '99 that is still going strong. I would never buy another TiVo product with their current fee structure.

Since DirecTV already sends the guide data to all receivers, there's no reason to charge a monthly fee, other than TiVo already conditioned users to expect a monthly fee when using a DVR.

[Sirshagg]

It's a little different situation than TiVo, though. TiVo originally justified charging a monthly fee because they had to pay for providing the guide data and for any phone surcharges. They also had a lifetime subscription option where you could pay the fee upfront. I still have a series 1-lifetime that I bought in '99 that is still going strong. I would never buy another TiVo product with their current fee structure.

Since DirecTV already sends the guide data to all receivers, there's no reason to charge a monthly fee, other than TiVo already conditioned users to expect a monthly fee when using a DVR.

All valid points. That being said D* still appears to have the least expensive DVR servioce fees (even if we agree that such feea are a bogus concoction of a greedy company).

[amallon]

All valid points. That being said D* still appears to have the least expensive DVR servioce fees (even if we agree that such feea are a bogus concoction of a greedy company).

Oh hey, don't get me wrong. I think DirecTV's great and I wouldn't be paying the fee every month if I didn't find value in it. I just hope it doesn't become the norm.

[Sirshagg]

Oh hey, don't get me wrong. I think DirecTV's great and I wouldn't be paying the fee every month if I didn't find value in it. I just hope it doesn't become the norm.

Unfortunately it seems to be. It's for this reason that I fully expect VOD to cost $4.99/mo when they finally release it. I'm just really happy that I got in on the lifetime DVR deal many moons ago when it was an option.

[HolmesCo]

LOL - Who would have thought a thread with such an innocuous title would get so much traffic. :lol:

chuckle, yes it really did seem to take on a life of its own didn't it? Got me thinking about something I had never thought about.

[HolmesCo]

That is where you are mistaken. You bought (or leased) a piece of hardware capable of supporting the time shifting software. Any odds are that you knew full well that you would also have to pay the monthly DVR fee for the software based service.

Sort of like buyin g a PC which is useless without also buying some OS for it, be it Windows (horrors! :lol: ) Linux etc. Has some sense to it I guess. ANd my firewall , virus software, you have to renew that annually. So I guess I see some sense.

I do aagree with the guy who said we shouldn't have to pay receiver fee AND dvr fee for a dvr, that seems a bit over thetop, but so be it. Its just the one time, not for all dvrs, so two sides to every story I guesss

[harsh]

Thanks for the info. Funny that the receiver would stop recording if you don't pay the fee when it's built in.They turn off the feature and it stops working. Nothing odd about it.

The same holds true for most (if not all) other modern subscription DVRs. Some won't even allow playback of existing recordings after the DVR feature is disabled.

[RickMilw]

They turn off the feature and it stops working. Nothing odd about it.

The same holds true for most (if not all) other modern subscription DVRs. Some won't even allow playback of existing recordings after the DVR feature is disabled.

Found that out Wednesday night. I had called D* from work to question the DVR fee. I told the CSR then to turn it off. She did, and at the same time, transferred me to the retention department. The CSR in retentions offered the DVR service free for 12 months. I agreed. Well...they forgot to turn it back on for when I got home when I pushed the List button, a messaged popped up saying the DVR was disabled. Called D* and they turned it back on right away.

[davidjplatt]

The DVR fee is basically a monthly licensing fee. Just like a lot of software in the marketplace like anti-virus software and the like.

I'm sure that the guide data delivered to a dvr is far more extensive than would be required by a plain set top box since a lot of the information provided would only be pertinent for recording operations such as duration, etc. So I'm sure that is figured in.

The point is that the DVR fee is per account, not per box so it 's not all that bad anyway. And the mirroring fee is the same as a standard receiver.

Shoot - for a 20 hour HD capacity DVR, Verizon is charging $13 per month on FIOS. Their multi-room DVR will support one HDTV and other SD boxes (which are $4.99 per month) and it's $20 per month. The HR20 does 50HD hours.

And the one thing that no one has mentioned is each DVR has two tuners. They aren't charging per tuner so the cost of the DVR service is somewhat mitigated by that fact. I remember the standalone TiVo that had a single tuner. You wanted to record two programs simultaneously, you bought two TiVos and paid two fees.

I don't have a problem with the DVR fee. When my two HR20s arrive (no charge from D*) I'll have five active DVRs - for $6 a month - that's only $1.20 each - not bad.

[hockeynut07]

Well this just turned the premier package into a deal breaker for me.

I was seriously considering getting it. But now having to pay the DVR Fee on top of HD Access, leasing and protection plan, it doesn't seem so "Premier" to me.

[Tubaman-Z]

I don't have a problem with the DVR fee. When my two HR20s arrive (no charge from D*) I'll have five active DVRs - for $6 a month - that's only $1.20 each - not bad.

Plus leasing/mirroring fees of 4 * $4.99 for another $19.96/month. On top of your programming fees. On top of your HD access fee. For myself I can say now that if VOD is another fee, I won't be accessing it any more than I buy PPV movies/events - about 3 times in 2 years. I work for one of the world's largest providers of enterprise licensed software and while I appreciate that business model as an employee and shareholder, as a consumer I don't like the model. Anti-virus software has been used as an example, but note that I can choose to not renew it and the current software I have still works just fine - I just don't get updates. So this isn't the same model as turning off the DVR function.

As someone else wrote, I didn't realize how much this bothered me until this thread was started. I know that I could look into building a home-brew PC-based HD DVR, but so far I'm too lazy for that.

[bllreed]

I've been a long-time DTV and TiVo subscriber, and I don't always like the things that DTV decides to do, and the TiVo interface is much better than the HR20, but all in all, I don't think $5.99 is a bad deal. Of course, I got my HR20 for free since I already had an HR10 for years, so I'm a little biased :lol:

Tom

OK, to throw in my $150 worth, per month.... I've had service for quite a few years
and when the 1st TIVOs were released I bought a couple and paid $250 for TIVO
service - lifetime, unlimited # of TIVOs. I still have a TIVO or 2 but also have a couple of HR20s. I pay my account automatically by CC and therefore don't see a
detailed statement unless I check the web. I have Premier service, all 32 movie channels + HD which cost me over a $1000 out of my pocket in hiring a private
installer, tree work, etc. after screwing around with a half dozen D* installers. They repeatedly told me I couldn't hit the 110 & 119 sats. (But they NEVER tried
putting the dish on the front of my roof, something my private installer had going
in less than 10 minutes)

Back to topic though.....I've seen my bill go from around $100 to $150 in the past
year. I suspect part of that is a DVR fee which I should not have to pay. I would be interested to know who else paid that $250 TIVO lifetime fee, when it was available. And of those people how many are now being hit for another monthly fee. When do the extra fees stop? And how many more will I end up getting hit for when the Hi-Def upgrades are done? I'm looking at $2K a year for TV service,
not including whatever I spend on hardware. electricity, future tree work, etc. I
realize they have to make money as a for profit corporation, but geeze.....

[Sirshagg]

Back to topic though.....I've seen my bill go from around $100 to $150 in the past
year. I suspect part of that is a DVR fee which I should not have to pay. I would be interested to know who else paid that $250 TIVO lifetime fee, when it was available. And of those people how many are now being hit for another monthly fee. When do the extra fees stop? And how many more will I end up getting hit for when the Hi-Def upgrades are done? I'm looking at $2K a year for TV service,
not including whatever I spend on hardware. electricity, future tree work, etc. I
realize they have to make money as a for profit corporation, but geeze.....

I paid for the lifetime DTivo service many years ago (not sure if it was $250 though, but close). As of right now I have 3 HR20's and an HR10 (note: the DTivo I originally purchased lifetime with is no longer on my account but I've always maintained at least one DVR on the account) and I am never charged a DVR fee.

After adding my first two HR20's I noticed online that my lifetime DVR service was gone an I had a DVR service - free for 3 months on my account. I emailed them about it and they put the lifetime back the next day (yep first time with a positive experience via email with D*).

[bllreed]

After adding my first two HR20's I noticed online that my lifetime DVR service was gone an I had a DVR service - free for 3 months on my account. I emailed them about it and they put the lifetime back the next day (yep first time with a positive experience via email with D*).

I need to check my bill to see if they have done the same to me & if so I'll email them as well. Thanks for the info!

[Doug Brott]

I paid for the lifetime DTivo service many years ago (not sure if it was $250 though, but close). As of right now I have 3 HR20's and an HR10 (note: the DTivo I originally purchased lifetime with is no longer on my account but I've always maintained at least one DVR on the account) and I am never charged a DVR fee.

If you have lifetime DVR service then you should still be able to maintain that service on your account. There is an exception to that rule, though. IF you subscribe to a package which includes the DVR service (Plus HD DVR is one such service), then you will lose your lifetime service forever. You should be asked whether or not you want to do this or not and if you choose to do so, you will be waiving your rights to the lifetime service.

All other packages available today do not include DVR service. If you switch packages, please verify with a CSR immediately that it has not been removed from your account. I believe that the process will get very complicated to impossible if you do not get the problem corrected within the first 30 days.

[Bandito]

The original and current TIVO (directly from TIVO, not DirecTV) fees were mostly for obtaining the guide service, plus a regular monthly income for TIVO. That's why they offered the one-fee, lifetime buyout option, because they could make enough off of the interest to balance out the income over the long term.

DirecTV, however, already has the guide system in place with the costs already rolled into the regular charges for the service. As far as paying for program updates, that's simply a cost of doing business and remaining competitive. If they were using the DVR fee to pay for programming costs, they'd probably have a lot more programmers developing a lot more updates at a much quicker pace.

As it is leased equpment that they own but still charge for, there would appear to be little if any subsidy by them for the hardware. I would think the DVR fee is essentially pure profit for them, so why not do it?

Just my thoughts on the matter.

[harsh]

The original and current TIVO (directly from TIVO, not DirecTV) fees were mostly for obtaining the guide service, plus a regular monthly income for TIVO.How does it become the subscriber's responsibility to make sure that TiVo employees live comfortably? If a company resells the service for $5-6, it would appear that you're paying at least $6 just to have the logo gracing your home entertainment center each month.

[boomertsfx]

SA TiVos should have a fee because they have to download guide data via phone lines... it is bogus to have a DVR fee with D* because they have had guide data since they started, even for non-DVR boxes. It's a bogus fee, not a "bargain".

[Sirshagg]

SA TiVos should have a fee because they have to download guide data via phone lines... it is bogus to have a DVR fee with D* because they have had guide data since they started, even for non-DVR boxes. It's a bogus fee, not a "bargain".

So:
1. You would be perfectly happy if the HR20 was left with the software it was originally shipped with (since there is no revenue to pay programmers to update it)?
2. You feel the programmers should not be paid for their work?
3. You think you should get something (DVR service) for nothing?

Show me where you can get account based DVR service for less.

[boomertsfx]

The "programmers" should get paid with the "lease" fee IMHO. I guess we're lucky they don't charge double since it has 2 tuners :)

[amallon]

So:
1. You would be perfectly happy if the HR20 was left with the software it was originally shipped with (since there is no revenue to pay programmers to update it)?
2. You feel the programmers should not be paid for their work?
3. You think you should get something (DVR service) for nothing?

Show me where you can get account based DVR service for less.



1. Yes.
2. I don't pay ongoing fees to Microsoft for Windows or for any other software that I buy. What makes DVRs specal that they need to charge ongoing fees?
3. DirecTV provides no DVR service to its customers. Everything needed to record programs is self-contained in the box itself.

[RickMilw]

1. Yes.
2. I don't pay ongoing fees to Microsoft for Windows or for any other software that I buy. What makes DVRs specal that they need to charge ongoing fees?
3. DirecTV provides no DVR service to its customers. Everything needed to record programs is self-contained in the box itself.

Amen to that. Totally agree.

[slider65]

1. Yes.
2. I don't pay ongoing fees to Microsoft for Windows or for any other software that I buy. What makes DVRs specal that they need to charge ongoing fees?
3. DirecTV provides no DVR service to its customers. Everything needed to record programs is self-contained in the box itself.

Hmmm, for your answer to #2, one could argue that DirecTV could forego the DVR fee and just charge you, say, $100 for every new software release. That's what Microsoft does with Windows. Eventually they would stop supporting your software version when you refused to upgrade and your box would no longer function because it would be incompatible in some way. This happened to me when I upgraded to Windows XP - a camera I had would not work at all anymore, no new drivers, nothing.

I'll agree with a previous post that maybe they should provide the service just to be competitive, but when so many people out there realize that $5.99/month is reasonable for what you get and compared with cable DVR fees, a bargain, why would they not charge a small fee? When it comes down to it, if most people are willing to pay the fee, then from a business perspective, the few that hate the fee will drop the service, impacting DTV little if at all. It's pure capitalism at its finest. I find it amazing how many people have an entitlement mentality, not just here but in all things. The "they should just give it to me for free" attitude is very prevalent in society at large and has always amazed me.

[Sirshagg]

Hmmm, for your answer to #2, one could argue that DirecTV could forego the DVR fee and just charge you, say, $100 for every new software release. That's what Microsoft does with Windows. Eventually they would stop supporting your software version when you refused to upgrade and your box would no longer function because it would be incompatible in some way. This happened to me when I upgraded to Windows XP - a camera I had would not work at all anymore, no new drivers, nothing.

I'll agree with a previous post that maybe they should provide the service just to be competitive, but when so many people out there realize that $5.99/month is reasonable for what you get and compared with cable DVR fees, a bargain, why would they not charge a small fee? When it comes down to it, if most people are willing to pay the fee, then from a business perspective, the few that hate the fee will drop the service, impacting DTV little if at all. It's pure capitalism at its finest. I find it amazing how many people have an entitlement mentality, not just here but in all things. The "they should just give it to me for free" attitude is very prevalent in society at large and has always amazed me.

I suspect the thing that really irritates people is that they have to pay $300 for the hardware which they don't own then they get the monthly DVR fee. I'd bet if they were not leased there would be much less push back on the DVR fee. It just seems like they are hitting folks with a bi to much and the DVR fee is an easy target. Just my $.02

[slider65]

I suspect the thing that really irritates people is that they have to pay $300 for the hardware which they don't own then they get the monthly DVR fee. I'd bet if they were not leased there would be much less push back on the DVR fee. It just seems like they are hitting folks with a bi to much and the DVR fee is an easy target. Just my $.02

I think you're right, and I was probably a bit too harsh in my previous post. I guess the bottom line is that if you were not told about the DVR fee when you paid your lease upgrade fee for the DVR, then you were screwed by DTV and I would be ticked as well. I had a DVR40 and an HR10 for years so for me, I went into the deal with my eyes wide open. For those that paid $300 and have to pay the DVR fee, it is like they are double-paying.

I just doubt that DTV will ever eliminate it. It's like congress - they never met a tax they didn't like as long as their constituents will pay it with minimal griping and will still re-elect them. And once a tax is imposed, it will never get repealed.

[gizzorge]

Well, I knew before I ordered my HR20 that I'd have to pay a DVR fee. No one at D* ever mentioned any fee when I was trying to get a good price.

[jwebb1970]

SO if you sign up today as a new customer under the Plus HD DVR plan ($69.99/month) the monthly DVR fee (and HD Access fee) is factored into the price, yes?

This is what D* told me both on the phone and via email.

[Sirshagg]

SO if you sign up today as a new customer under the Plus HD DVR plan ($69.99/month) the monthly DVR fee (and HD Access fee) is factored into the price, yes?

This is what D* told me both on the phone and via email.

Yes, but it would not include the soon to be added $4.99/mo HD extra pack (all the HD channels (6 I believe) that are not simucast versions of existing SD channels)

[jwebb1970]

Yes, but it would not include the soon to be added $4.99/mo HD extra pack (all the HD channels (6 I believe) that are not simucast versions of existing SD channels)


When I signed up today, the HD Extras Pack is there, after the various sports packages in the "build your system" area.

As a Plus HD DVR subscriber, HD Access is auto selected. HD Extras Pak is not. It's free for the 1st 3 months, then $4.99/mo afterwards. As of now, it includes HDNet, HDNet Movies, MHD and UHD.

As a former Comcast-er, HDNet/Movies alone is worth an extra $5.

BTW, signing up online until 10/31/07 thru D* directly also gets you a $50 Visal gift card and an additional $100 off your bill (issued as a $10 discount for 10 consecutive months). This gives me HBO for just $3/mo for 10 months!

[cody21]

Until July, the dvr fee was included with the Premier service. Since Aug 1, you have to pay the dvr fee in addition to the fee for the Premier package if you're a new subscriber to the package. People subscribing to Premier prior to Aug 1 are grandfathered until they make a package change.

Is this documented someplace? When I talked with D*, they said there is "no grandfathering" of the DVR fee ... I have been a Premier customer for 10 years. 4 weeks ago I upgraded to the HR20 and H20 ... They tacked on the DVR fee to my billing. :confused:

[harsh]

I have been a Premier customer for 10 years. 4 weeks ago I upgraded to the HR20 and H20 ... They tacked on the DVR fee to my billing. :confused:This seems to be an all too common slip of the weenie. If you call them on it, you stand a good chance of getting it reversed.

[cody21]

This seems to be an all too common slip of the weenie. If you call them on it, you stand a good chance of getting it reversed.

Thanks for the advice. I sent them an email on Saturday explaining everything - politely of course. I received a call from a Supervisor and again explained the issue. She was quite nice about it and agreed to waive our DVR fee and grandfather us into the DVR since we had a TIVO type prior to the HR20. Yahoooo!