View Full Version : "Stretch-O-Vision"!! petition??
David Carmichael
09-29-07, 03:34 AM
"Stretch-O-Vision"!! :grin:
Has anybody thought of and or started an online petition to the networks to stop the use of "Stretch-O-Vision"!!
We could send the network exec's silly putty or better yet the head of the FCC where progrming must be sent in native / orignal screen format?
And does anybody here have an address(es) where to send such a petition??
:confused:
While not as well worded as I would of liked:
online petition can be found here: http://www.petitiononline.com/sillyhd/petition.html (http://www.petitiononline.com/sillyhd/petition.html)
Found following email address:
A&E's viewer relations email to: ae.viewerrelations@AETV.com.
Moderator's note: This petition is not affiliated with DBSTalk.com or DIRECTV.
tpm1999
09-29-07, 03:47 AM
Since so many of the new networks uses stretch-o-vision, you must look up each network seperately for their addresses.
I suggest 2 things...write them a letter. Praise the shows that are in true HD and also admonish them for the stretch shows.
Me personally...i stretch my SD content, so stretch doesnt affect me. All i really want is for the new stations to increase the amount of HD content they have.
David Carmichael
09-29-07, 04:36 AM
My wife gets motion sick / dizzy when trying to watch shows in "Stretch-O-Vision" ... she does not with a correctly formatted screen!
PS: while it is funny to watch 'Tim Allen' in "Santa Widevision" in 'Home Improvement'...
dave1234
09-29-07, 07:45 AM
The best solution from my standpoint is for DirectTV or Dish to include a "squish" mode in the receivers to "correct" Strectch-O-Vision. Every new provider will have some genius on the team who thinks Stretch-O-vision is the greatest thing since sliced bread. :hurah:
rrrick8
09-29-07, 07:49 AM
Shouldn't this go in the Programming forum? :scratch:
As more and more networks and shows go HD, this problem will go away... eventually.
Yeah I can't stand this and TNT was one of those OEM HD channels that I avoided because of this practice. Although some content does appear in the correct format on that channel the few times I've scrolled throuhg it. I never stretch out my SD programming so this is annoying to me. Oh well, how ya gonna act?
AtlHDTV
09-29-07, 12:15 PM
I have access to the OTA version of WTBS here in metro Atlanta. Locally, we did not get Stretch-O-Vision; however, the HD channel on DirecTV has been altered to widen it. I've taken some pictures so you can see the difference between OTA channel 17.1 and DTV channel 247.
10316 10317
medic4jc7
09-29-07, 12:40 PM
I statrted this post the other day. It has the Network E-mail adresses. Scroll down for the History Bhannel addy. I had the wrong one.
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=101534
Just keep in mind that the new HD channels also have their SD channel right next to it (most of them anyway). Just look at the SD channel for SD content and tune to the HD channel for HD content.... Just like AtlHDTV is showing two posts above this one.
For the record, I HATE Stretched SD!! I too get motion sickness!!! Someone should kick the guys a$s that made the executive decision to do this...IMO of course. :D
Stuart Sweet
09-29-07, 07:35 PM
I know that if there were such a petition (or petitions) Mrs. Shadow would enthusiastically sign each and every one.
I went ahead and signed the petition. Until they straighten out the stretching I watch the SD programs on the SD channel. ESPN does it right!!
wings91
09-29-07, 08:45 PM
While I'd rather have TRUE HD, I do not mind upverted shows. My cable was so bad everything looks better.
As a side questions, do all those that complain about Stretch-o-vision have their TVs set to normal (4:3) when watching SD programming? I don't, I can't stand pillar boxes.
DAVE
JLucPicard
09-30-07, 01:18 AM
Add me to the list that HATES Stretch-O-Vision (no motion sickness problem, just can't stand the distorted image). And when I watch 4:3 content, my screen has pillars (black). I don't even really notice them - I'm watching the content itself. And no - I don't feel at all "cheated" that an SD program is not filling my entire 16:9 screen. If the SD content is not designed to be 16:9, then I don't want it 16:9!
David Carmichael
09-30-07, 05:26 AM
Added link to Petition (http://www.petitiononline.com/sillyhd/petition.html) to this thread, did not know that I had two threads started here at DBSTalk.
william8004
09-30-07, 08:36 AM
I remember about 5-7 years back when the TV sellers would stretch out the SD content for their HD displays. It looked like crap, but I guess they thought the average person wouldn't know the difference. Never under estimate your audience.
leww37334
09-30-07, 08:42 AM
There is a possible reason for Stretch-o-vision, A number of older HD sets out there are still subject to burn in. The content providers may be afraid of potential lawsuits if black side bars get burned into older TVs. It may be all about avoiding potentail liability. The lawyers strike again.
geneb11
09-30-07, 09:23 AM
There is a possible reason for Stretch-o-vision, A number of older HD sets out there are still subject to burn in. The content providers may be afraid of potential lawsuits if black side bars get burned into older TVs. It may be all about avoiding potentail liability. The lawyers strike again.
When you buy the tv it warns you of burnin so this can't be the reason. The SD content should be in 4:3 unless I want to stretch it and these other channels with the picture cropped,What the heck is this? Cut off the top and bottom and the picture still doesn't fill the screen. I would rather they left it alone so that I could see the whole 4:3 picture. This is nut's.
Forget petitions -- they are about as useful as a used two-day-old tampon.
If you care about this issue then email your views to each network that does
stretch-o-vision. That is more likely to get their attention than (not then) some
lame petition.
Perhaps someone who cares more about this than (not then) I do could post
contact info for each of the offending nets.
While I'd rather have TRUE HD, I do not mind upverted shows. My cable was so bad everything looks better.
As a side questions, do all those that complain about Stretch-o-vision have their TVs set to normal (4:3) when watching SD programming? I don't, I can't stand pillar boxes.
DAVE
You are the minority on this site but unfortunatly for us, the majority of people that buy TVs from place like WalMart, ect.
A circle should not look like an oval. That is more important than black bars on the side of the TV. ;)
Native aspect ratio is what it's all about IMO!
I remember about 5-7 years back when the TV sellers would stretch out the SD content for their HD displays. It looked like crap, but I guess they thought the average person wouldn't know the difference. Never under estimate your audience.
Also known as "sheepeople" :D
They will take whatever you spoon feed them :rolleyes:
There is a possible reason for Stretch-o-vision, A number of older HD sets out there are still subject to burn in. The content providers may be afraid of potential lawsuits if black side bars get burned into older TVs. It may be all about avoiding potentail liability. The lawyers strike again.
I don't buy that theory.
I think some old fart in a nice cushy office (executive at the TV network) made the decision because his nice new HDTV has black bars on the side and "he" thinks it should fill the screen. :nono2:
He probably never heard of native aspect ratio or refuses to listen to anyone who has because he is the big cheese at the office and what he says goes.
Either way, we all have to suffer in terms of picture quality. Even if I am getting 1920x1080, it still looks like crap when stretched.
BillyBob_jcv
09-30-07, 10:17 AM
OTOH - I do find it funny when a show like Friends or Sex in the City is stretched and Jennifer Aniston, Courtney Cox, Sarah-Jessica, etc actually look somewhat normal instead of like starving refugees from a concentration camp. :p
OTOH - I do find it funny when a show like Friends or Sex in the City is stretched and Jennifer Aniston, Courtney Cox, Sarah-Jessica, etc actually look somewhat normal instead of like starving refugees from a concentration camp. :p
:lol:
kstefanec
09-30-07, 05:38 PM
I used to work for a home theater installation company before I got smart and started my own. I got into an arguement with the wife of the owner. She said she would rather watch an old pan and scan version of a movie than a new widescreen version. She did not like the "black bars" on the top and bottom of the screen. I said, "But, now you see the whole movie" She said, "But, I don't like the black bars on the top and bottom of the screen."
What I should of said is, "How do people like you wake up in the morning and tie your shoes!"
She's probably a fan of stretch-o-vision, too.
She is sheepeople too!! :D
msmith198025
09-30-07, 07:24 PM
So people that dont agree are sheep people?
Id rather everything be in true unstretched HD also, however in the now thats not possible, too much stuff already shot that they want to show and this is the solution.
Anyone have any better ideas on what to do? Im sure they floated around the idea of pillar boxing everything, and it seems obvious that most would rather have it stretched than have that. So have to go with what will make the most people happy, or thats my theory.
armophob
09-30-07, 07:54 PM
Stretch Arm-o-phob
msmith198025
09-30-07, 07:59 PM
Stretch Arm-o-phob
lol
kstefanec
09-30-07, 07:59 PM
Yeah, I have a better idea. Watch it in the aspect ratio it was originally produced. Would these people like to have the TV to automatically colorize every B&W movie or program, also? Or, maybe add dialog to silent movies?
Something that would probably keep (nearly) everyone relatively happy would be if networks would use pillar-boxes similar to what ESPN does on SportsCenter during its teasers, where the pillar-boxes for upconverted SD content are blurred versions of what's near the edge of the 4:3 active area. I believe what they're doing is effectively putting a blurred, stretched 4:3 image to fill the 16:9 screen and then overlaying an OAR 4:3 image on top of that (with some blending occurring at the edges of the 4:3 image to make the transition into the dynamic pillar-box more seamless). The end result is something that fills the screen to keep the people that want the image to fill the screen happy, the actual content isn't distorted at all, which keeps the OAR people happy, and the pillarboxes can't burn-in at all for people that have displays where that's a potential issue.
gslater
10-01-07, 12:05 PM
I have to weigh in as one that doesn't like pillar bars and I allow my TV to stretch 4:3 content. With that said though, I have to add that 1- The networks shouldn't do it. It should be up to the individual. And 2- I hate the way that TNT does it. If you're going to stretch, stretch evenly. TNT uses an algorithm that adds more stretch as you get to the edges of the screen. My senses easily adjust to a normal stretch but it's very disconcerting when the amount of stretch changes as someone moves across the screen.
msmith198025
10-01-07, 12:15 PM
Yeah, I have a better idea. Watch it in the aspect ratio it was originally produced. Would these people like to have the TV to automatically colorize every B&W movie or program, also? Or, maybe add dialog to silent movies?
Well tune to the SD channel and do just that
geneb11
10-01-07, 02:48 PM
My locals OTA and D* don't stretch so why these channels?
MikeekiM
10-01-07, 06:25 PM
While I'd rather have TRUE HD, I do not mind upverted shows. My cable was so bad everything looks better.
As a side questions, do all those that complain about Stretch-o-vision have their TVs set to normal (4:3) when watching SD programming? I don't, I can't stand pillar boxes.
DAVE
I am a purist... I want to watch the program as it was originally intended...
If it was filmed in 4:3, then I want the pillar boxes to preserve how the show was intended to be viewed...
This is the same answer I give if I am watching a widescreen program on a 4:3 television set... I would much rather have the letterbox bars if that was how the film was originally intended to be viewed...
David Carmichael
10-02-07, 03:10 AM
It seems that most all messages in DirecTV's own tech support forum having to do with ""Original Aspect Ratio"" are being deleted?!
Does this mean that DirecTV is supporting this practice of "Stretch-O-Vision" so that they can claim programing as HD which really is not?
As of 04:09am CST: Signatures : 161
[There were four pages of signatures and I was thinking that the totals listed were for each page so in fact I now have less than half of the signatures than I was thinking that I had .. :( ..so while so many on a large number of message bases like to talk about how they dislike the non OAR image few are willing to act on it by even signing a online petition.]
Mike Bertelson
10-02-07, 05:15 AM
I have access to the OTA version of WTBS here in metro Atlanta. Locally, we did not get Stretch-O-Vision; however, the HD channel on DirecTV has been altered to widen it. I've taken some pictures so you can see the difference between OTA channel 17.1 and DTV channel 247.
10316 10317
I find this interesting.
I thought tha D* just re-broacasts what the content providers provide.
Either that's not always true or what's sent for re-broacast is different the local OTA.
Mike
boomertsfx
10-02-07, 08:29 AM
everyone is talking about "stretching" content, I prefer my 4:3 content "zoomed/cropped" so it fills the 16:9 screen and cuts off the top/bottom of the program -- thus no horrible wide-faced actors. Or second best is the anamorphic stretch which keeps the center of the 4:3 picture normal and progressively stretches out the sides of the picture. Normal stretch mode sucks IMO
David Carmichael
10-02-07, 08:45 AM
I find this interesting.
I thought tha D* just re-broacasts what the content providers provide.
Either that's not always true or what's sent for re-broacast is different the local OTA.
Mike
WTBS does not equal TBS
WGN does not equal WGN
Both of these super-stations feed a different programing to the satellites than they broadcast over the air... at times they may match time slots... but due to distribution rights many other programs are different, I don't ever remember TBS breaking into their satellite feed with local weather updates.
This should be a non-issue. I have yet to come across an HDTV that does not have some type of "stretch" option. Also, most set top boxes have this option as well. The content providers should just broadcast programming in its original aspect ratio and allow the viewer to decide if he or she wants to manipulate the image. It's not rocket science!!! :nono2:
Fl_Gulfer
10-02-07, 09:15 AM
Well most of us don't need the burn-in on our HDTV's, so I use the Streach-O-Vision. If you don't like it turn it off on your receiver.
Hutchinshouse
10-02-07, 09:26 AM
Well most of us don't need the burn-in on our HDTV's, so I use the Streach-O-Vision. If you don't like it turn it off on your receiver.
I just want the video sent the way it was intended. If it has to be "tweaked from the norm", let the end-user do it. Would you be opposed to all audio being mono only? Not all end-users have stereo speakers in their TV. Why not let the networks make that call too?
:icon_peac
Well most of us don't need the burn-in on our HDTV's, so I use the Streach-O-Vision. If you don't like it turn it off on your receiver.
There is no option in the receiver to manipulate the picture on an HD channel. That is why this is an issue. I have an HR20. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
David Carmichael
10-02-07, 10:16 AM
I just got a disturbing PM message:
Other than adding the link to "pgfitzgerald" FAKE HD listing link, I have not gone into the list manager services of the petition to even look at email address on the petition??
I had even set up a gmail account for the petition.
I did send out a group of emails, about the petition, to people that are in my private email contact list.. but that would of meant that they had some time in the past, also emailed me about some topic, as the only time I add contacts is when I get emails sent to me? [Other than the online contact forms or email address for: A&E, Discovery, TBS, & TNT about the petition] And I only sent one email and that was the day the petition was created online, with a link to the petition.
Only non-petition emails have been to; my wife (from and two work), youngest brother (who is in China visiting), mother, and one other a former co-worker, I have not sent out any other emails from my email service?
So if you get an email claiming to be me and we have never contacted each other before.. then it was not from me!!
All other messages have been open forum postings.
--David
PS: Like everybody else here I an sure that you have received 'SPAM' from yourself! I have had the same personal email address for over 8 years and receive close to 100 spam messages a day!
djb61230
10-02-07, 10:56 AM
This is a little off topic but I noticed some stretch-o-vision users refer to burn-in problems as a reason for their preference. Just wanted to mention that everyone should consider getting their displays professionally calibrated or using something like Avia (http://www.ovationmultimedia.com/avia.html) to do it themselves.
I bought my first HDTV in 2001 and because of my ignorance to the fact that most TVs are shipped in "torch" mode, it does have some burn in. I ran it that way for several months until I learned about the Avia DVD. Ironically, at that time I used to stretch the picture. I used the DVD to calibrate the set and the burn in has not gotten any worse. After that we never stretch to remove black bars.
Clearly "torch mode + stretch" is way worse than "calibrated + not stretch".
kstefanec
10-02-07, 11:14 AM
May I ask all the people who stretch, this question, "Why do you like to look at fat distorted people and squashed scenery?" Did you not buy an expensive piece of equipment to see the best picture quality? I just can't imagine buying something like that and then ruining PQ.
I don't mean to sound harsh but I just don't get it. It can't just be about burn-in. Is it something in the psyche that you have to have the screen filled? I bought 42 inches of real estate and I want it all filled! :)
Greg Alsobrook
10-02-07, 11:16 AM
May I ask all the people who stretch, this question, "Why do you like to look at fat distorted people and squashed scenery?" Did you not buy an expensive piece of equipment to see the best picture quality? I just can't imagine buying something like that and then ruining PQ.
I don't mean to sound harsh but I just don't get it. It can't just be about burn-in. Is it something in the psyche that you have to have the screen filled? I bought 42 inches of real estate and I want it all filled! :)
well said
ClubSteeler
10-02-07, 02:18 PM
May I ask all the people who stretch, this question, "Why do you like to look at fat distorted people and squashed scenery?" Did you not buy an expensive piece of equipment to see the best picture quality? I just can't imagine buying something like that and then ruining PQ.
I don't mean to sound harsh but I just don't get it. It can't just be about burn-in. Is it something in the psyche that you have to have the screen filled? I bought 42 inches of real estate and I want it all filled! :)
Actually, Sony TVs come with a "Wide Zoom" mode which is the best stretch that I have ever seen. There is always going to be some "fattening", but it is minimal and looks very realistic to me.
On the other hand, if I let my STB do the stretching, everyone looks fat, short, and annoying.
So the trick it to not force your STB to output in HD, or force to stretch. Instead, take the SD with the pillar boxes and the TV does a very nice job handling it.
Now if the SD program is on a HD channel, and D* or the network pre-stretches it for you, then I just watch the SD feed.
tonyd79
10-02-07, 03:35 PM
Well most of us don't need the burn-in on our HDTV's, so I use the Streach-O-Vision. If you don't like it turn it off on your receiver.
On many stations, I cannot turn it off. If you want to turn it on, go ahead.
But if I had a TV that needed to be stretched to avoid hurting it, I would get another TV.
tonyd79
10-02-07, 03:36 PM
Actually, Sony TVs come with a "Wide Zoom" mode which is the best stretch that I have ever seen. There is always going to be some "fattening", but it is minimal and looks very realistic to me.
Wide Zoom is a compromise. It is a mix of zooming and stretching. I only think it looks realistic on the Simpsons. In other words, not at all.
You can adjust Wide Zoom somewhat by making it stretch a bit more vertically but it is still not realistic.
I just want the video sent the way it was intended. If it has to be "tweaked from the norm", let the end-user do it. Would you be opposed to all audio being mono only? Not all end-users have stereo speakers in their TV. Why not let the networks make that call too?
:icon_peac
Well put. If the content providers are stretching the 4:3 SD content on the HD channels, shame on them and there might be nothing we can do about it. If D* is stretching the 4:3 SD content then D* needs to stop as they need to allow the HR20 and the end user to decide if they want to stretch or not to stretch. My TV is not succeptable to burn-in and as such I would rather not watch a stretched distored image either. Could not the networds and D* just broadcast 4:3 SD content on the HD channels as SD and not upconverted to HD. This would allow people to choose if they want it stretched or not and also would cut down on bandwidth and recording space requirements. As of now, I have to see if the show is really in HD and then select the HD or SD channel appropriately but since the guide data is not acurate in what is really HD, you can only tell by viewing the HD channel to see how the program looks. Makes recording difficult.
Well most of us don't need the burn-in on our HDTV's, so I use the Streach-O-Vision. If you don't like it turn it off on your receiver.
Can't turn it off if the channel provider or D* is broadcasting it that way. TVs do not have a compress-o-vision option. Regardless of if the picture is broadcasted that way or not, a stretched picture is distorted and looks to me really bad when scenes pan or especially on those that stretch just the edges as items go from one side of the screen to the other and you can tell where the strecth begins and ends. HD formatted material is not supposed to be broadcasted this way. Users should be able to choose to stretch or not.
one consistent...TNT & TBS need serious help. Who decided these would pass as a HD channel? I gave them a "pass" with TNT, being one of the original HD channels available on Directv...but with TBS - now I thought they would do a better job!
tkrandall
10-03-07, 12:26 PM
Add me to the list that HATES Stretch-O-Vision (no motion sickness problem, just can't stand the distorted image). And when I watch 4:3 content, my screen has pillars (black). I don't even really notice them - I'm watching the content itself. And no - I don't feel at all "cheated" that an SD program is not filling my entire 16:9 screen. If the SD content is not designed to be 16:9, then I don't want it 16:9!
I am with you on this one.
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