View Full Version : Are new channels full HD or HD-Lite?
bkwest918
10-01-07, 02:04 PM
Which ones are HD-Lite or do they have enough bandwidth for full HD?
/b
flipptyfloppity
10-01-07, 02:44 PM
Starz HD channels look incredible. Far better than HBO HD or SHO HD.
markrubi
10-01-07, 02:51 PM
If you can't tell then why does it matter? There is a post which has the resolution of each of the new channels that launched last week.
vertigo235
10-01-07, 03:14 PM
They certainly have the bandwidth for full HD.
At least, right now they do.
Michael D'Angelo
10-01-07, 03:23 PM
They certainly have the bandwidth for full HD.
At least, right now they do.
I don't know if it is full HD or HD lite. But if it is going to be HD lite they would not make if full HD now and drop it back later. At least I don't think they would. There would be a lot of mad people if the PQ went to Sh!t after being good for a while.
bkwest918
10-01-07, 03:53 PM
Well the issue is I have a 42 inch plasma that does 1024x1080 and I just went out today and got a 47 inch LCD that does 1920x1080 so I wondered :P I wouldn't have been able to tell really but its still an awesome picture. Guess I can pop in my HD-DVD or Blu-ray.
/b
gully_foyle
10-01-07, 04:11 PM
You know, once things get compressed the whole idea of "bitrate" becomes far less meaningful as the system is lossy and the decompresser's output bitrate is a fiction anyway, since it's guessing at some of the bits.
You could talk about the data rate of the compressed signals, but depending on the content this is hard to compare. FoxNewsHD and its talking heads will need a lot less bandwidth than HD NBA basketball for the same apparent resolution.
So all you can really go by is "how does it look?" If it as good as your TV can do with HD DVD or Blu-ray, then who cares what the bitrate is.
Frankly, I blame most of the complaints about HD-Lite on the softness of the HR10-250 video processing. But that's just an opinion.
bkwest918
10-01-07, 04:57 PM
All I have to say is MPEG-NR is a must on DirecTV on every channel. It really makes a difference. My new 47 inch has it as does my old 42 inch plasma. And really knocks out the blockyness you see from time to time. Smooths the picture out and makes it look great.
/b
bwaldron
10-01-07, 05:06 PM
I don't know if it is full HD or HD lite. But if it is going to be HD lite they would not make if full HD now and drop it back later. At least I don't think they would. There would be a lot of mad people if the PQ went to Sh!t after being good for a while.
Well...it has happened before ;)
Though I do not mean to predict that history will repeat itself. :)
vertigo235
10-01-07, 05:30 PM
I don't know if it is full HD or HD lite. But if it is going to be HD lite they would not make if full HD now and drop it back later. At least I don't think they would. There would be a lot of mad people if the PQ went to Sh!t after being good for a while.
I disagree, I think they would.
rynberg
10-01-07, 05:35 PM
I disagree, I think they would.
They would and they have. Obviously some people didn't have D*TV HD 3+ years ago when it was much higher bit rate and had little in the way of motion artifacting or softness.
The new stations look like good HD with adequate bit rates to me. I've certainly seen some glitches but none of the low bit rate problems that plague the MPEG-2 HD channels.
The only way to tell is to analyze the signal at all points, meaning look at the RF, the IF, the decoded MPEG signal and check the frame (or field depending on resolution).
I think they look great with my setup. The caveat, as many interjected before, is that each system puts its own spin on the PQ.
Bottom line, other than the technical raw pixel by pixel analysis, it is a matter of your view (your eyes), each setup will impose its own aspect to the picture.
aramus8
10-01-07, 07:49 PM
All I have to say is MPEG-NR is a must on DirecTV on every channel. It really makes a difference. My new 47 inch has it as does my old 42 inch plasma. And really knocks out the blockyness you see from time to time. Smooths the picture out and makes it look great./b
From the resolution listed in your previous post it sounds like your plasma set is an HItachi. Edge enhancement stays on even when sharpness is set to 0 on the Hitachi plasmas and the only way to shut it off is noise reduction on high. You are correct that the HD picture looks much better without edge enhancement. This can be confirmed using the last screen on the HDNet test pattern.
bkwest918
10-01-07, 07:54 PM
Yep its a hitachi.. what a whacky res.
/b
Stuart Sweet
10-01-07, 08:04 PM
I don't think the term "HD Lite" really applies here. There probably is some bitstarvation going on, but MPEG4 compression is so much better than MPEG2, that they can fit a lot more picture information in the same bandwidth.
Frankly, I blame most of the complaints about HD-Lite on the softness of the HR10-250 video processing. But that's just an opinion.
Watch a football game on ESPN2HD and tell me what you see is just "softness".
MrKlaatu
10-01-07, 08:50 PM
I propose locking all HD-Lite threads. They give me a headache.
say-what
10-01-07, 09:55 PM
Well, to my eye, the HD content on the new channels looks fantastic, so it really doesn't matter.
bodlfed66
10-01-07, 10:06 PM
Agreed new channels are clear and nice.
vertigo235
10-01-07, 10:23 PM
Compared ShoE to ShoW tonight, ShoW much better.
gully_foyle
10-02-07, 10:37 AM
One of the things that will help is not only the much better compression, but also the larger transponder bandwidth (36 MHz/transponder). What you get then is the combination of great compression statistics coupled with a larger number of channels, which means that the statistical multiplexing of channels is better too.
So, if you only get bit-starvation when the transponder bandwidth is exceeded, having two larger variables to play with on your bit-packing algorithm means that you can keep the maximum bit rate going almost all the time.
Of course, that doesn't mean that someone won't try to add too many channels to a transponder and screw it all up....
sandiegojoe
10-02-07, 11:00 AM
I don't think the term "HD Lite" really applies here. There probably is some bitstarvation going on, but MPEG4 compression is so much better than MPEG2, that they can fit a lot more picture information in the same bandwidth.
Exactly, Even if it is not "True HD" that doesn't make it HD Lite. There's a whole lot of gray in between.
vurbano
10-02-07, 11:03 AM
Exactly, Even if it is not "True HD" that doesn't make it HD Lite. There's a whole lot of gray in between.
Any combination of bitstarving and/or downrezzing = HDlite. There is NO grey area.
All I have to say is MPEG-NR is a must on DirecTV on every channel.
what is mpeg-nr?
mcbeevee
10-02-07, 11:10 AM
Watch a football game on ESPN2HD and tell me what you see is just "softness".
I thought the ESPN HD channels were still mpeg-2. :confused:
sandiegojoe
10-02-07, 02:58 PM
Any combination of bitstarving and/or downrezzing = HDlite. There is NO grey area.
Wrongo. There's actually a pretty big grey area that D* is bound to fiddle with.
You can bistarve, downrez, throw it in a blender and pour it back out again. If there is no visually evident degradation in picture quality, it isn't HD Lite.
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