Can I Modify My Machine Yet??

[javadog]

now please, im not trying to be a troll or be illegal in ANY SENSE. but ill be damned if i dont see those USB and Ethernet connections on the back of my machine, and wonder about them all the time. (not to mention the size of my recording space)

I entered into this lease on the HR20 when it first came out, and with 1/2 hour of talking with DTV they gave me the unit free and i had to sign up for a year of HD programming that they discounted by 50%

id like to touch on a couple topics here and again, im sorry if this has been covered (which im sure it has), i have about 1.345 seconds of free time at any one time (run my own business and full time stay at home dad of 2, who are both sick)

1.) can i or is there a way for me to be able to access my unit yet through any sort of external connection? (USB or that pretty ethernet connection)

1.a) can i increase the size of the recording space with a new disk drive?

2.) can i **assume** that unlike the older DVR that i PURCHASED, when this lease is up, its my guess that ill be able to buy it out (dollar cost buyout) or something similar where the unit is mine, and i can feel free to open it up?

2.a) is there any reason why i would WANT to own it? or should i be happy with the idea that theres prob going to be a better unit that would be available for me to 'upgrade' to when the lease on this one is up (5mo give or take)

again, thanks, im sorry im not more active that i would know where to look for this. this forum is great, but for me (the rare to casual user) its a bit overwhelming to see 10's of thousands of posts and know where to look

thanks again and thanks in advance for your time.

-Java

[Sirshagg]

1. No
1a. Yes, esata drive.
2. The lease is never up so there is no buyout.
2a. Only reason i could see to own it is to sell once you leave D* but that would not be cost effective.

[Stuart Sweet]

-At some point there will be multiroom viewing so in a sense you'll be able to access your DVR from an external point.

-You can add pretty much any eSATA drive to add a huge amount of capacity, but you will lose access to the internal drive.

-As Señor Shagg pointed out the lease is never "up". Leasing vs. selling is basically an accounting trick with benefits to both sides. You get a lower cost and they get a machine back if you leave.

-I can't imagine why you'd rather pay $799 upfront to own the DVR, the only benefit would be opening the case to see what's in there. That's a lot for $400.

[javadog]

1. No
1a. Yes, esata drive.

OK, now you confused me. i do see the SATA on the back, Ethernet and USB.

i can plug in an external ESATA drive to increase total overall recording space?


and if that be the case, is there a size limitation (i dont even know the size of the one IN the unit currently) that i can plug in? and is there going to be a firmware (software OS) i need to install on that drive for it to be seen and accessed?

right on getting back to me. thanks again! hope you (or someone) can guide me further.

thanks again!

-java

[dbmaven]

I can plug in an external ESATA drive to increase total overall recording space?



Not exactly.

The SATA port on the back is enabled. You can plug any eSATA drive in and it 'should' work. The important note is that it is NOT ADDITIVE to the internal drive.
Your unit will effectively reboot and format the external drive - you'll 'lose' anything (including favorites/to do lists/series recording setups) that you currently have set up, as well as recorded shows you haven't watched. It would be the same as opening up the unit and replacing the hard drive with a new one.

There are many threads about different eSATA drives people have tried.

No firmware/software is needed - the current national release software has the ability.

Good luck !

[mcbeevee]

i can plug in an external ESATA drive to increase total overall recording space?
and if that be the case, is there a size limitation (i dont even know the size of the one IN the unit currently) that i can plug in?
The HR20's have a 300gb or 320gb internal drive. If you attach a eSata drive larger than that, you have increased your space. Once an eSata drive is connected, the internal drive is disabled. If the eSata drive is disconnected, the internal drive becomes active again.

Click here for everything you want to know about eSata and the HR20 (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=66201)

[Mike Bertelson]

OK, now you confused me. i do see the SATA on the back, Ethernet and USB.

i can plug in an external ESATA drive to increase total overall recording space?


and if that be the case, is there a size limitation (i dont even know the size of the one IN the unit currently) that i can plug in? and is there going to be a firmware (software OS) i need to install on that drive for it to be seen and accessed?

right on getting back to me. thanks again! hope you (or someone) can guide me further.

thanks again!

-java

Connecting and eSATA drive will disable the internal drive. The firmware will then format the external drive.

You will have to setup all your series links as they are stored on the internal drive.

You will not lose the recordings on the internal drive.

If you have stuff on the internal drive you still want to watch you can shut off the HR20 disconnect the eSATA drive and the internal drive is now active.

You can watch what previously recorded stuff...shut off the unit...reconnect the eSATA drive and you are up and running.

You can hop back and fourth as needed.

Mike

[bonscott87]

OK, now you confused me. i do see the SATA on the back, Ethernet and USB.

i can plug in an external ESATA drive to increase total overall recording space?


and if that be the case, is there a size limitation (i dont even know the size of the one IN the unit currently) that i can plug in? and is there going to be a firmware (software OS) i need to install on that drive for it to be seen and accessed?

right on getting back to me. thanks again! hope you (or someone) can guide me further.

thanks again!

-java

It's as simple as going down to Best Buy, buying a 1 terabyte eSata drive, plug it in and reboot. That's it. As noted it will replace your internal drive.

There is no space limit, there are some people here with RAID enclosures and 3-5 terabytes of space. Sky's the limit.

Ethernet - already active and usable. Plug into your network and you can share photos and music currently. Multi-room viewing coming at some point (share shows between HR20's). And if you get it on the Internet then you'll get Video on Demand once that is released here in the next month or two as well on remote scheduling via the Internet.

USB - Also active and usable for high end home theater control equipment as well as you can plug in USB fans or cooling devices should you need to.

[javadog]

WOW, thank you all for this information, now the computer guy in me wants to clairify:


From DBMAVEN:

Your unit will effectively reboot and format the external drive - you'll 'lose' anything (including favorites/to do lists/series recording setups) that you currently have set up, as well as recorded shows you haven't watched. It would be the same as opening up the unit and replacing the hard drive with a new one.

further down in this thread individuals have said i WILL NOT lose the internal (hdd) information. can this be confirmed and clarified?

I DO have stuff on the internal drive that i want to keep (Planet Earth series in HD for the kids, ect), so if that be the case, then i dont want to give that up. and if im able to be able to effectively 'switch' back and forth from drives depending on what i wanted to do....well then...GREAT

From MICROBETA:

You will have to setup all your series links as they are stored on the internal drive.

I do not have an issue with redoing the channels or shows that i want to watch. nor does it bother me that i have to reset my 'favorite' list (god i get tired of scrolling through my *available* channels MOST of which are PPV crap). so if thats all i need to do to basically have a *new* machine with more space then great!!



from bonscott:


There is no space limit, there are some people here with RAID enclosures and 3-5 terabytes of space. Sky's the limit.

if thats the case, does the firmware understand what to 'partition' as available space for HD as compared to standard broadcast?

when i bought the unit, they told me that i had X hours for normal broadcast and X hours for HD programming.

does this even make a difference? i would expect that the unit just recorded whatever signal until the internal HDD was full. then i had to make choices to delet whatever i wanted removed HD signal or standard.

is that correct?


AND A FINAL QUESTION:

(and jesus, thanks everyone. i cant tell you with my limited time how much i appreciate getting answers quickly AND how knowledgeable this community is. i really do appreciate it)

can anyone tell me what expected space is required for recording. IE: they told me that i had the ability to record 40 hours of standard broadcast and 20 hours of HD programming (give or take, and honestly im sure that(those) number(s) are incorrect.

use as an example a 500GB harddrive:

what should i expect (recording hours) out of a drive that size. and ill prob just do multiple in an array if i am able to do that. but 500 gives me a good idea as a benchmark to what i can expect for total hours once i build the array.

sorry:

question 1a to go with that size question: being a computer nerd i wonder about throughput speeds. do i need to worry about the speed or cache of the HDD size? IE: will a standard 7200rpm drive be fine? what about perpendicular write drives? does it matter for overall speed? and i include in speed: access time to a program? fast forwarding? fast forwarding while recording?

or am i being silly?

thanks again everyone.

(wish i had the forethought to have put together a community/forum like this back in the day....

*smile*

[dbmaven]

further down in this thread individuals have said i WILL NOT lose the internal (hdd) information. can this be confirmed and clarified?

I DO have stuff on the internal drive that i want to keep (Planet Earth series in HD for the kids, ect), so if that be the case, then i dont want to give that up. and if im able to be able to effectively 'switch' back and forth from drives depending on what i wanted to do....well then...GREAT


*smile*

"Lose" - was a poor choice of wording on my part.
To correctly state it: "lose access to while the eSATA drive is connected".

Apologies for leaving it vague.
Part of my own bias probably encouraged that - I don't want to be plugging and in unplugging a drive to get access to programming. If a software release gets downloaded that has file system changes/enhancements (and you cannot stop these from happening over time.....) then you run the risk of having the 'disconnected' drive be "out-of-sync" - and when you re-connect it, the system might just do a reformat and you lose everything on that drive. Not a risk I would want to take....

I would also encourage you to read
http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=676204&postcount=1
as posted earlier in this thread. I suspect that all (or almost all) of your questions would be answered there.

[2000voltz]

"Lose" - was a poor choice of wording on my part.
To correctly state it: "lose access to while the eSATA drive is connected".

Apologies for leaving it vague.
Part of my own bias probably encouraged that - I don't want to be plugging and in unplugging a drive to get access to programming. If a software release gets downloaded that has file system changes/enhancements (and you cannot stop these from happening over time.....) then you run the risk of having the 'disconnected' drive be "out-of-sync" - and when you re-connect it, the system might just do a reformat and you lose everything on that drive. Not a risk I would want to take....

I would also encourage you to read
http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=676204&postcount=1
as posted earlier in this thread. I suspect that all (or almost all) of your questions would be answered there.
could you explain out of sync alittle more? what would happen and can it be fixed?I thought if you switched back to the internal drive and it was behind that it would update itself overnight and be caught back up? is that wrong?

[dbmaven]

could you explain out of sync alittle more? what would happen and can it be fixed?I thought if you switched back to the internal drive and it was behind that it would update itself overnight and be caught back up? is that wrong?

Read the post by Earl that is linked 2x in this thread - no point in me restating what he said so eloquently.

[2000voltz]

Read the post by Earl that is linked 2x in this thread - no point in me restating what he said so eloquently.
I did read it and both earl and you mentioned the possibility of the drive getting out of sync, but did not explain what it “means” to be out of sync. For an example… I just hooked up an esata and everything went very smoothly, however my main menu is now coming up in the older format, I thought it might “update” overnight but it didn’t. I guess I was looking for a way to get the esata drive caught up to the internal drive, and also, if need be, a way to do the internal when needed.

[Milominderbinder2]

...1.) can i or is there a way for me to be able to access my unit yet through any sort of external connection? (USB or that pretty ethernet connection)...
Remote Booking just went into testing. You can learn more about it here:

Remote Booking 0x1A3 Issues (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=102693)

- Craig

[dbmaven]

D* provides 'updates' to the software on their receivers.

You'll see mention of (and a separate forum for) CE releases - these are effectively "beta" copies of the software, which some people help D* out with testing and reporting problems, and are provided during specific "windows" for downloading.
Once the "bugs" are worked out to D*'s satisfaction, the software then goes into what is called "National Release" (NR for short).

I don't know all the details, but I suspect there's a small bit of code that "phones home" if you will, looking to see if there's a new software package that requires downloading. When it gets a "success" message in return, it automatically downloads and installs the new NR software. This typically happens during early morning hours (e.g. 2 to 5 AM), even when your unit is "off". The only way to stop it from happening is to unplug (e.g. cold shutdown) the unit - and even then the next time you fire it up it will eventually try to do the update. Most people wouldn't even notice the update (although lately with the "white GUI", it is pretty obvious).

If you have an external drive in place, and it gets the 'auto' update, the internal drive no longer has the same software release as the external.
That's what I mean by "out of sync". If you were to go several releases (months at a time) before switching back to the internal drive, the possibility exists that you'd be more than one update/release out of sync. To the best of my knowledge, the D* update does not push the updates serially - when release 5 comes out, they remove release 4 from distribution. So, if you still were on release 2, you'd be 3 releases "out of sync". In such a situation, it is "possible" that the update would reformat your internal drive and you'd lose everything on it. (Note - this would probably only occur if there were file system level changes as part of one or more of the updates).

It might not be likely - but it would appear to be possible. And there have been reports of isolated incidents where a normal release caused a loss of recordings/to do lists, etc...

You can force a download of the software - use the menu/reset/restart. The unit will "reboot". When the first 'blue screen" appears, immediately enter 0-2-4-6-8 on your remote - that tells it to download the software that's available.

Hope that helps.

[javadog]

"Lose" - was a poor choice of wording on my part.
To correctly state it: "lose access to while the eSATA drive is connected".


appreciate the clarification. the computer tech in me finds it interesting that if the machine's firmware(?) is updated and it makes changes to how the file structure, partitioning, or overall data structure of the HDD is accessed...if a drive that was 'out of sync' was plugged in....why it would want to format it and not just update it...i mean, when the update is pushed to the machine, i didnt see it format and lose all my settings or recordings the previous time....why would that be different
now?

I read what Earl wrote about the port being active now. all makes sense. but again, to hve it be able to push an update to the machine and NOT change the HDD, seems to me it would do the same when an external drive was plugged in as well...but again, im a computer tech, not a D* expert by any means. i come from a client/server software production environment, so i understand the software production process, and to me, a 'format' is quite ham-handed.

thoughts?

and again, thanks all for the time.


SIDE NOTE: Earl didnt touch on in his write up, and it was my afterthought question...

using a 500GB drive as a base, what can i expect to see in 'overall recording time' with this unit. i think 500 is a good base number, bang for buck on the open market right now, its the fulcrum point for which dollar to GB makes sense.

thanks again.

-java

[2000voltz]

dbmaven,
thank you for that great clarification. So really either drive can be caught up, but a worst case scenario is that you loss all recorded programs in the process of updating and than you would have to “start over” again. Did I miss anything on that? If this is the case wouldn’t it be worth just doing a forced download at the point of switching drives before you record on it? or can it be more involved than a simple forced download?

[ebr]

...
USB - Also active and usable for high end home theater control equipment ...

Okay, this got my attention. Can you point me to any other info on this? I didn't find anything specific with a search so I'd appreciate a link if you've got one. Thx.

[dbmaven]

a 'format' is quite ham-handed.


...but a worst case scenario is that you loss all recorded programs in the process of updating and than you would have to “start over” again.

Guys - a couple of points that may be getting lost.
1 - I've never experienced this "worst case scenario." I don't know that anyone has. I think Earl was pointing it out as a "possible worst case scenario".

2 - Part of the cautionary note may be due to the fact that there have been some situations where people have reported somewhat 'random' reformats when software has been updated. It doesn't seem to be widespread.

Like most things, YMMV. It might never happen to you....and that would be the hope.

Javadog - the current units use 300 or 320 GB drives, so the calculations of "hours of recording" are based on that size. 100gb always stays exclusively available to D* for downloading 'showcases' and is not available to you for your recordings. If you add a 2TB array, 100GB is still D*'s - the rest is yours.
The internal drive can store:
~30 hours of MPEG2 HD (or 1 hour = 10GB)
~50 hours of MPEG4 HD (or 1 hour = 6GB)
~200 hours of SD (or 1 hour = 1.5GB)

So, in theory, a 500GB external drive would increase those capacities to
40 hours of MPEG2 HD
66.6 hours of MPEG4 HD
266.6 hours of SD

[dbmaven]

Okay, this got my attention. Can you point me to any other info on this? I didn't find anything specific with a search so I'd appreciate a link if you've got one. Thx.

Kudos to Spanky_Partain for this post:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1156494&postcount=3

[ebr]

Kudos to Spanky_Partain for this post:...

Cool! Thank you very much.

[javadog]

Javadog - the current units use 300 or 320 GB drives, so the calculations of "hours of recording" are based on that size. 100gb always stays exclusively available to D* for downloading 'showcases' and is not available to you for your recordings. If you add a 2TB array, 100GB is still D*'s - the rest is yours.
The internal drive can store:
~30 hours of MPEG2 HD (or 1 hour = 10GB)
~50 hours of MPEG4 HD (or 1 hour = 6GB)
~200 hours of SD (or 1 hour = 1.5GB)

So, in theory, a 500GB external drive would increase those capacities to
40 hours of MPEG2 HD
66.6 hours of MPEG4 HD
266.6 hours of SD

appreciate the info. that was the breakdown i was looking for. again, appreciate you all, and thank you for all the info

-java

[Sirshagg]

Javadog - the current units use 300 or 320 GB drives, so the calculations of "hours of recording" are based on that size. 100gb always stays exclusively available to D* for downloading 'showcases' and is not available to you for your recordings. If you add a 2TB array, 100GB is still D*'s - the rest is yours.
The internal drive can store:
~30 hours of MPEG2 HD (or 1 hour = 10GB)
~50 hours of MPEG4 HD (or 1 hour = 6GB)
~200 hours of SD (or 1 hour = 1.5GB)


I thought D* only took 50gb on a stock unit?

[dbmaven]

I thought D* only took 50gb on a stock unit?

Could be - but I take what Earl says (see links previously posted/mentioned)
as true, unless proven false:

DirecTV will NOT increase their designed usage space for recordings. (these numbers are estimates)If if you add a 500gb drive; 400gb will be for user space, 100gb for DirecTV. If you had 21TB; 20,900gb for user space, 100gb for DirecTV (Edited from original post)

[cartrivision]

-I can't imagine why you'd rather pay $799 upfront to own the DVR

Especially when you consider that the fee for not returning a leased HD DVR is only $470. If you can manage to get a deal for a free HR20, then in the worst case scenario you will have to pay $470 for it if you can't return it. Even if you paid the full lease fee upfront ($299), failing to return it still doesn't bring your out of pocket costs to more than the $799 "purchase to own" price, so there is really no reason to ever purchase a HD DVR from DirecTV.

[cartrivision]

If you have an external drive in place, and it gets the 'auto' update, the internal drive no longer has the same software release as the external.

That is incorrect. The software updates are stored in flash memory in the DVR, not on the hard disk. Changing hard disks does not change your software version.

[gully_foyle]

I did read it and both earl and you mentioned the possibility of the drive getting out of sync, but did not explain what it “means” to be out of sync. For an example… I just hooked up an esata and everything went very smoothly, however my main menu is now coming up in the older format, I thought it might “update” overnight but it didn’t. I guess I was looking for a way to get the esata drive caught up to the internal drive, and also, if need be, a way to do the internal when needed.

What out-of-synch means is that updates assume that you have been updating right along. But if you keep a disk offline for months, then return to it, you might get a MUCH later update than the last one, and this might surprise the software some. Say there have been two database changes (A to B and B to C) and the software is ready to update from B to C, but not from A to C.

That kind of out-of-synch.

This can happen with newly installed boxes, but usually they don't have anything on them, and the installer may well force the download before he lets you play with it.