Installer wants to put pole in middle of front yard

[Geordon]

After waiting two weeks for the local Dish installer to come out, so I can get Big Ten Network HD, he said we are too close to tall trees along the entire southern horizon, and the only option we have for dish mount is a 4' pole buried directly in line with our front door and the road, 50' from the house (on the north side). I don't know how he knows roof mount won't work, since he didn't even go up on the roof.

I asked about pole mount along the edge of our front lawn, but said it wasn't possible, because the grade drops, thus requiring a taller pole, which will lead to wobble.

I asked about moving the dish farther from the house and was told I was I was at the end of the cable length, by the time the cable gets to the house and goes through 50' - 75' of cabling inside. They don't use RG11, like the cable company had to do, and the voltage drop is too great over long runs for the receiver to power the dish.

My two questions:
1) What would be a reasonable pole mounted height for the dish to be without wobble fear? The location I am proposing is on a dip in elevation on the west edge of a wooded area, so I would expect the wind would be pretty minimal here.

2) Is there an alternate way to power the dish than depending on the receiver to send power back to it through 200' of coax?

For reference, I am located in Mason, MI 48854, with a two-story house, sitting about 20' from a mature woods on the south side.

[DoyleS]

He may have said voltage drop to power the dish but the problem is not with the DC voltage that powers the dish. The problem would be with the high frequency signal loss of the cable. RG11 would be better if you are going 200 feet. For your Zip code, the dish elevation angle for a Dish 500 aimed at 110/119 is about 22 degrees. The signal coming into the dish will be at an angle of about 44 degrees. So, you can take a protractor and get an idea of whether you can clear those trees with that angle from the top of your roof. If the installer had to move out 50 feet from the house to be able to get clearance, it is unlikely that you will have a clear view from the top of your roof. Sounds like the trees are up in the 50-60 foot range or more. Regarding wobble factor on a pole, it really depends on the pole. If you are wanting the pole placed farther away, it sounds like you might be looking at doing the pole and cable installation yourself and then having them hook up to it.
Regarding Cable Loss, Belden RG6 has a loss of 8.3 db at 100 feet. So, a 50 foot run would have a loss of 4.2 db. Belden RG11 has a loss of 3.8 db per 100 feet so a 111 foot run of RG11 would have the same loss as a 50 foot run of RG6. I guess other alternatives would be to have some Rohn 25 tower mounted to the side of the house to get the height so that the look angle is above the trees. Might have to get some Hams to climb the tower and mount the dish.

..Doyle

[Geordon]

I just talked to the local installation company, and they said the distance is okay for the SD feeds, but they can't run over 100' from the receiver for the HD signal.

[DoyleS]

Maybe I am missing something but there is no difference in the LNB that is used for an HD signal vs an SD signal. In light of that, the downconvert frequencies are the same. and so the loss would be the same. Maybe someone else can jump in but that answer just doesn't sound right.

..Doyle

[Bill R]

Maybe I am missing something but there is no difference in the LNB that is used for an HD signal vs an SD signal. In light of that, the downconvert frequencies are the same. and so the loss would be the same. Maybe someone else can jump in but that answer just doesn't sound right.

..Doyle

You are 100 percent correct!

[flatus]

I have the same problem. The center if the front yard was the only place to get a signal. (i did the install myself, and I tried *everywhere*)

So to hide the dish I planted several fast-growing evergreen bushes around it so it is hidden from view, more or less.

[Geordon]

I have the same problem. The center if the front yard was the only place to get a signal. (i did the install myself, and I tried *everywhere*)

So to hide the dish I planted several fast-growing evergreen bushes around it so it is hidden from view, more or less.

I attached a picture of the front yard from my doorway, and circled the yellow flag marker where the dish should go. There is no way I could possible not see this or landscaping around it.

I am trying to get them to look at using RG11, even if I have to procure it myself. I found a location 175' from the receiver which might work, but I need to get a tech back out to check the LOS.

[Geordon]

The two owners just came out, and one went up on the roof. Said if I mounted the dish on a tripod about 4' - 5' above the peek, and topped 3 or 4 trees, I could roof mount. Optionally, could erect a 30 - 40' Rohn tower about 20' - 30' from the house on the east side to clear the trees, for a run of about 150' from dish to receiver (which happens to be on the east side of the house, and will take about 60' cable just to cross the house.

They also said that DishPro isn't really designed for reliability much past 110', or I could not pick up the 129 satellite and forget HD :(

[Richard King]

sometimes you just need to get creative, like I did here: http://www.pbase.com/rking401/image/74405425 a few years ago. That is a 10' dish sitting on top of what is about a 40' long pole. He had the same situation with a bunch of trees in the front.... but he also had a large lake in the back (the edge is just about where the picture was taken from) so the dish couldn't go in the back yard.

[DoyleS]

All in all it sounds like you are talking to some good installers. They understand the situation and are familiar with Rohn Tower and Roof Towers. The initial recommendation would be the least costly to you. Rohn Tower sells for about $100 per 10 foot section plus installation costs so you could easily be looking at a couple thousand. I think I would be tempted to go for the front yard installation with some bushes

..Doyle

[BNUMM]

RG-11 will run approximately $200/1000 (based on copper clad steel the last time I bought it). Seeing you are in Mason, Michigan they should have access to it through Bursma Electronics in Grand Rapids, Mich. They were the lowest price I could find. If they are trying for the 129 sat. you don't want much movement on the pole because the signal is already weaker than the 110 and 119 sats.

[Mike500]

I've been installing satellite dishes for over 30 years, starting from the c-band days. Back then and for some time into the dbs installs, I've always thought I was quite good in determing line of sight issues with a handheld compass and clinometer.

I have been a collector of compasses and survey instruments for over 30 years.

About five years ago, I really had an eve opener. I took my surveyor's transit out to do a sight survey on a difficult line of sight install. I was really surprised on how much error there was with a handheld compass and clinometer. Using a surveyor's transit was a real eye opener. When properly calibrated and aligned, I could zero in on every satellie position and precisely determine if I had line of sight and actually see the clearance of the line from the trees.

If you can borrow or rent one for a reasonable. it might really be worth your while.

[Sharper]

Looking at the photo, did they try the spot just in front of the bush on the left next to the street? If you have good LOS there, that'd mean one side of the pole you wouldn't have to plant a bush, as there is already one in place.

[Geordon]

Looking at the photo, did they try the spot just in front of the bush on the left next to the street? If you have good LOS there, that'd mean one side of the pole you wouldn't have to plant a bush, as there is already one in place.

That would be a run of about 260' from the lilac bush at the end of the driveway, with LOS obstructed by the neighbor's house. One of the owners came back out this afternoon and agreed to attempt an install on a 5' pole about 180' from the receiver at the outside wall of the house. They will run solid core copper, as they use for commercial installs. I guess they normally use copper clad for residential, which they will only run 120'.

Looks like I will be limited to one room with receivers, as anywhere else in the house will add 30 - 60' to the run.

Thanks for the Bursma Electronics RG11 source tip, too.

Thanks for the suggestions, all. I will let you know how it goes later next week.