L1.08 wish list (Dish is listening)

[LarryH]

L1.07 was a huge leap forward for the 721. It was great to see Dish respond to so many of our suggestions. Let's keep the communication going and offer some more ideas for the next release. Here are some of the changes I would like to see:

New Features:

Folders in PVR list!
Add OpenTV
Add Internet support
Add name-based timers
Release IR keyboard and USB-to-Ethernet adapter

Code Changes:

When modifying favorites, mark unsubscribed channels in red (like 501)
When modifying favorites, let select work as "auto-advance" (like 501)
Make arrow keys functional on virtual keyboard (for insert and edit)
Have timer conflict screen show all 3 events (it currently shows 2 of 3)
Have PVR event default to "resume" if previously viewed
Add button to remove a single entry from the search history
Search only in current guide (AllSub, Favorites, All Channels)

Add your requests here...

[Chaos]

Add support for the Philadelphia 129 satellite!

[Mark Lamutt]

Add the discrete power codes like have been added to all of the other Dish receivers.

[kyoo]

I'm sorry.. was there some people that wanted name based timers? aka Season Pass?

;)

[Jacob S]

Would it be called 1.08 ? Do they usually skip numbers?

How about controlling volume from the receiver itself, can this be done with a software upgrade?

[sampatterson]

Dish,

Please put the channel number you are currently watching next to the PIp window when the guide is up (similar to the Dish Player).

Let say you are watching channel 135. Press quide, and go up/down several pages in the guide. You no longer can tell what channel # you were on.

[kyoo]

sam, why is that important? just hit cancel and you'll go back to the channel you were on in full screen. If you want to see the guide on that channel, hit cancel and guide again.

[Scott Greczkowski]

So far so good! Lot's of great suggestions here!

I invite more suggestions as Dish is indeed listening.

Perhaps later on I will choose 5 or so suggestions and put them up for vote to see which items people want most. This way the 721 team will see what their priorities for new features should be. :)

So put those thinking caps on and post your best ideas on how you would improve the 721!

[Scott Greczkowski]

Originally posted by LarryH

New Features:

Folders in PVR list!
Add OpenTV
Add Internet support
Add name-based timers
Release IR keyboard and USB-to-Ethernet adapter

I agree with the folders bring em on!
OpenTV and Internet Support is coming just a matter of when.
Names based timers is something I am sure they would love to do but can't because of patents. However There may be other ways to get more accurate recordings.
I am guessing The keyboard and Ethernet will be available once Internet access is available.

Good suggestions!

[marshalk]

A one button swap without calling up the pip is fairly high on my list.
Like others names based events and folders are real high on my list.
Anything that can be done about the sound, such as spinning down the drive when idle.
Internet support but only if we can do it via our own ISP and home broadband network, behind a firewall, proxy etc.
LAN support via usb ethernet with samba so I can copy the mpeg2 files to a laptop or other computer would be to much to ask for I realize.

[larrydj]

For the big things, I'd vote for broadband access to the ISP of our choice,

For the small things, I certainly hope they supply power on/off discretes.

[TomCat]

Let me preface this by saying that E* and Scott are to be commended for their involvement in an ambitious upgrade. Congrats and kudos to all.

But at the risk of being the skunk at our little garden party, I'm completely underwhelmed by how little really useful stuff is in this upgrade. I count 2 or 3 truly useful (and minor) improvements, bundled with a lot of useless stuff, while unfortunately many of the real issues are still in limbo. That's still comparitively huge, as upgrades go, though.

It seems like a no-brainer that you work on the important stuff first, like bugs, ergonomics, and stability (which is likely very improved, thankyouverymuch) and forget about meaningless stuff like games and screensavers until the important work is done. Here's a concept for you...fix it BEFORE you ship it, like Tivo and Replay usually do. If they had, I wouldn't now be having to learn how to use the shuttle buttons on my remote all over again. The slomo-FA is a very significant and much-wanted feature (OK, lets call this a major addition along with all of the minor ones) but now I find it getting in the way of how I've grown accustomed to using the remote. For instance, you can no longer jump to FFW or skip from pause mode, which I was doing all the time...up until now, that is.

When the 721 shipped it had all manner of curious ergonomic oddities, as well as a number of bugs. The bulk of those oddities have not been addressed, although it looks like a lot of bug-killing may have taken place (Cool!). But Orkin could still pay a visit, and there are new bugs, like the sound lag on skip, and the fact that "turning off" the blinky clock completely invalidates any "reminder" timers. They fire, but with the clock turned off, essentially nothing happens (D'oh!), which makes me wonder about the basic approach that was taken here, which seems disorganized and misguided.

But then maybe they just haven't fixed the important stuff because they just don't have a clue how...adding a half dozen early-ninties-vintage screen-savers (10-year-old flying toasters are a gazillion times more sophisticated than these) and lame games is really not what should be concentrated on, but that's what they CAN do, so that's what we get.

Nice try, and hats off to those who are involved, but we've hopefully only just begun, as this beast could still stand a lot of ergonomic and stability improvements. I'm sorry to end the honeymoon so quickly, and I don't want to sound ungrateful (which I truly am not)...I still feel that the improved 721 is the best PVR going, but there's still much work to be done.

Hey...somebody had to say it. Better someone like me who absolutely loves the 721 (can ya tell?) than a bunch of sour-grapes tivo-sucking trolls (believe me, it's just a matter of time).

[wildzeke]

How about the ability to connect an external MPEG encoder so we can record over the air channels.

[wildzeke]

I would also like the ability to search movies by type (action. sci-fi, etc) like we can do with the dishplayer.

[dbronstein]

Can someone please explain what the patent issue is with show-based recording? I don't understand how the idea can be patented. And does this mean that Tivo, Replay and UltimateTV are all paying royalties to whoever has this patent?

Dennis

[wileadams]

Since the 721 is based on a variant of Linux, what would it take to convert over the Mozilla web browser/e-mail/chat/news client to the 721 for internet browsing?

I have to say being new to the 721, I had gotten a lot of frustrated bugs in the last few weeks. It was nice to see most everything that I had happen to me seems to be fixed.

My top choices for this receiver are:
Internet access via own ISP or Ethernet
Name-based timers
Completely block out unsuibscribed channels in search results or restrict to current guide
They allow us to change the position of the guide/men system, but how about allowing us to also adjust the width and height of it? This would help for people who have 16x9 TVs without cutting off part of the guide/menu.

[sjhill01]

Scott, is your information on the patent issue for name based recordings firm or supposition? It seems ludicrous to me that this is a patentable technology. That's like saying Google is violating Yahoo's patent by allowing you to find web content by searching for keywords.

And even if, by some outrageous stretch of the imagination it is patented, DISH ABSOLUTELY MUST PAY THE ROYALTIES TO ALLOW US TO USE OUR PVR LIKE ALL THE OTHERS.

And I have to say that I agree 100% with TopCat about the skip/ffwd from pause; I haven't used my 721 since I got 1.07 on there, but with the sound lag issues, I'm going to be VERY frustrated. My normal pattern was:

1. Watch TV.
2. Pause for some reason.
3. Skip back to start the show playing early enough that the sound has time to catch up to where I was.

Now I've got to find a completely different way to use the thing. They shouldn't have messed with the skip buttons and used the play button during pause for FA, with the FFWD and REW buttons setting the direction on the first press.

Not that I don't appreciate the features; just agreeing that they really need to put a real project manager in charge of this process so these kinds of things get thought out. Maybe focus groups, surveys, something less haphazard than the current process...

[DmitriA]

Originally posted by dbronstein
Can someone please explain what the patent issue is with show-based recording? I don't understand how the idea can be patented.
Welcome to the wonderful world of the US Patent Office. And before you ever ask "how can this ridiculous thing be patented", check out these wonderful inventions (http://www.delphion.com/gallery)

[Jacob S]

I agree on these new frame features, one gets used to using it a certain way and then when it changes it really messed you up and ittakes some getting used to. I think they need to allow the user to customize how he wants these features to be controlled, for the user to choose what buttons do what, and give a choice in whether you want to have the frame feature or back the way it was without a frame feature if you are used to it that way.

[zztzed]

As far as I can tell from a cursory search of the USPTO (http://www.uspto.gov/)'s database, TiVo does not have a patent on the "season pass" concept, merely a trademark on the term "Season Pass" when used in the context of digital/personal video recorders. Dish could implement a similar feature, they just couldn't call it "Season Pass".

(If I'm wrong, give me a patent number or something; don't just say "TiVo patented it". Please.)

I suppose the trademark is unfortunate, because "Name-Based Recording" just doesn't have the same ring to it. :p

[Jerry Abbanat]

New features are great--on next version need:
1) on PVR recording screen-have it remember your last entry as a default on "start 1 minute early"--I most always have mine unchecked
2) same screen-have it remember your last entry on # of minutes to record after event is over--or better yet on this one to default to whatever number you normally use (i.e. I usually want 0)

[Bill Mullin]

Originally posted by Jerry Abbanat
New features are great--on next version need:
1) on PVR recording screen-have it remember your last entry as a default on "start 1 minute early"--I most always have mine unchecked
2) same screen-have it remember your last entry on # of minutes to record after event is over--or better yet on this one to default to whatever number you normally use (i.e. I usually want 0) I agree with this, and I was very surprised when I found that 107 did not have this capability.

While at it, when I check sort by "date" or "alpha" in the PVR listing, it would be convenient if my preference was remembered.

I don't believe either of these enhancements should be difficult for Dish programmers.

- Bill

[dbronstein]

Buffer the unused tuner so PIP will come up right away.

Dennis

[smurphy_sfpd]

I'm currently a 501 owner, but saving for a 721. Here is my idea for improvement to both systems.

I would like an OPTION for auto delete of recordings based on days recorded or number of episodes recorded.

For example: I would like to always record the 6pm news, so that I can watch it later. As far as I'm concerned I don't need this for anymore than 2 days. I would also record shows like Leno and Letterman, but don't want more than a few episodes cluttering up my hard drive.

Most shows I would keep until I decided to delete them, but it would be nice to have it keep current episodes clean. Maybe this could be a Folder Option.

Thanks
Steve

[Jacob S]

I also agree on these two things, it needs a memory of what you had selected before and use it as the default until changed, not change by factory default each time. Where else could this be implemented?

I would also like a feature where you could select what number each channel is ..... example : instead of having the weather channel on 214 I could change it to 100, rearaning each channel toe the number I select it to be.

[LarryH]

Originally posted by smurphy_sfpd
I would like an OPTION for auto delete of recordings based on days recorded or number of episodes recorded.

For example: I would like to always record the 6pm news, so that I can watch it later. As far as I'm concerned I don't need this for anymore than 2 days. I would also record shows like Leno and Letterman, but don't want more than a few episodes cluttering up my hard drive.


Great idea! I would love this feature!

[Jacob S]

How about PIP having a PVR Event in one and a show on another?

How about PIP having two PVR Events?

How about three screens, two tuners plus a PVR Event?

[DDRio]

MOVE THE 9-DAY GUIDE TO 119W!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[jcrash]

Originally posted by Mark Lamutt
Add the discrete power codes like have been added to all of the other Dish receivers.

what's that?

[jcrash]

Originally posted by Jerry Abbanat
New features are great--on next version need:
1) on PVR recording screen-have it remember your last entry as a default on "start 1 minute early"--I most always have mine unchecked
2) same screen-have it remember your last entry on # of minutes to record after event is over--or better yet on this one to default to whatever number you normally use (i.e. I usually want 0)

I have to say I wouldn't like this one. I like it the way it is now. Thus the quandary for them, because making an option to remember or not is more complicated and takes more time.

[jcrash]

Originally posted by dbronstein
Can someone please explain what the patent issue is with show-based recording? I don't understand how the idea can be patented. And does this mean that Tivo, Replay and UltimateTV are all paying royalties to whoever has this patent?

Dennis

The patent is on the ability to tell your PVR to record "every showing of XXXXX", e.g. record every showing of Friends.

Tivo has the patent, so anyone paying royalties would be paying them.

Yes, patent law is nuts. If only Apple had patented the desktop Icon, maybe we'd be better off.

[JStanton]

Originally posted by zztzed
As far as I can tell from a cursory search of the USPTO (http://www.uspto.gov/)'s database, TiVo does not have a patent on the "season pass" concept.

If I'm wrong, give me a patent number or something; don't just say "TiVo patented it".

Check out Tivo's latest 10K Annual Report (http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/sec/filing.asp?Symbol=tivo). On page 20 they list various patent litigations they are involved in.

One, in particular, 4,706,121, seems to patent everything about a PVR, including things like "only a preselected portion of the schedule information is presented for the user selection", and "It is another object of the invention to provide such a system and process which is capable of accommodating last minute schedule changes and additions."

Seems like that last one is name-based recording to me.

- Jim

[Big D]

Has anyone noticed that we can not "sort by name" in the PVR menu if using the Theme option? L107 added the "sort by name" option when the PVR menu first comes up, which is a great addition, however it needs to be available in Themes as well. Actually I find the Themes sort somewhat lame and seldom use it as the 8 different categories are very broad in nature and the EPG program description is what sets which area a recorded program shows up under, we do not have the option of "filing" the programs under a Theme that we choose. It is also of limited use for me in that 90+% of my recorded programs fall under the series/specials theme as pigioned holed by the EPG as I mainly record primetime shows, so a sort looks pretty much like the regular list for me.

So my 1st L108 wishlist item to make the 721 a better unit is for the Theme sort to have the same "by Name or by Date" option that the standard PVR list provides.

Secondly, as mentioned before (but I want to add my agreement with it) make the Resume button the default after you have started to watch a recording, stopped it and want to resume the program again, instead of defaulting to Start Over.

I also want to add my support for making the "sort by date or sort by name" default to the last option you selected from the previous use. I really like the ability to sort by name, yet each time I go to the PVR menu, I have to make several remote control keystrokes to reselect the "sort by name" option because it always reverts back to sort by date after each use.

[Chuckie Lightfoot]

How about Dish Network add a numbering scheme to their guide (invisible to users). For example a 16 digit code. The first four digits are channel number, the next for are for a program code etc... It could contain if the show is new or a rerun. Then they could do "name based recording" without actually doing name based recording. You want Friends? You can set it for only new episodes on a certain channel. Seems it could be flexible enough to handle what all of us want with a season pass. We won't get "wish lists" with such an implementation but it might not (okay, now that I write this, I'm sure it will) violate patents.

[Bill D]

This is a very nice upgrade, love the slo motion, but during the Giants game yesterday it did highlight the poor bandwidth given to local channels that carry sports, very pixely.
I do miss being able to hit skip back 10 from the pause mode, since this was a good work around from the delayed audio out of pause.
What is the deal with the sort not remembering my last selection when I go back to the PVR menu. Every time I get back in I have to scroll all the way to the the top, and if the recording I just watched was at the bottom of the PVR list I have to scroll all the way through the recordings to the top..
I think one of the biggest requests besides fixing bugs was for some sort of folder setup. The sort by name is very helpful but not if I have to select it every time I enter the PVR list.. ughhgh !!

Also curious why are some of you asking for a button to get right to the other tuner. If you are recording something it will take you to the other tuner when you change channels..
or am I missing something...
wondering if you tune to a lets say ch 138, hit record then select ch 300, hit record, and hit recall last channel, could you bounce back and forth between tuners ??? I;ll have to try that one..

[Jacob S]

Originally posted by jcrash


I have to say I wouldn't like this one. I like it the way it is now. Thus the quandary for them, because making an option to remember or not is more complicated and takes more time.

OK, that gives me an idea, the option to remember the last thing chosen, thats another feature on top of that one they can add.

[krlauver]

I like the features added in L1.07 and would like to see the time into a program displayed, as well as, the time remaining that currently displays.

[EvanS]

I'd like to see the option of disregarding an instance of the word THE when it leads the name of a show. For example THE Guardian, THE District, THE Agency.
Maybe it's just me but I never think of these shows in my mind with THE in front. When sorting by name it catches me funny that they are lower in the list than my hoarded cache of "Taken"

[TomCat]

Once the STUTTERING ISSUE IS FIXED (not likely due to 107) I'd really like to see the event screen not be bypassed in favor of reloading the PVR listings when exiting a viewed event. This is just SO basic, and is the result of not thinking through how people use PVR's along with poor implementation of loop-based programming techniques. A simple pointer to the proper routine would fix it. Ergonomics 101 says "think through how your product will be used and build from there", not "shoot from the hip and fix any collateral damage later".

Maybe I should spell it out in case they just don't get it:

Once a program is done being viewed, this is generally the best time as well as the most popular and logical time for it to be deleted, which pre-107 took 4 button presses. Since instead, now the 721 defaults to the PVR listings before you get a chance to delete, this takes considerable re-navigation..at least 6 button presses, usually about 10, and if you have a long list of recordings, sometimes approaching twice that many. It also opens the door for accidentally deleting the wrong episode rather than the one just watched. Please clean up this newly created mess.

And please clean up the rewriting of the screen during deletes. Nothing says entry-level programmers quicker than empty dialog boxes and half-deleted graphics behind everything. Besides, there is no need to even begin to display a dialog with a disclaimer letting us know it might take a bit to delete something if it pops up and disappears before it can even be read. Think this through...use your heads.

The implementation of slo-mo/FA is pitiful. It not only compromises normal usage of the shuttle buttons, it is plagued with frustratingly interminable delays, and jumps back and forth entire GOPs from where you wish it to operate. It is almost useless and more annoying than not having it at all. You have failed miserably in bringing us this feature. Please keep it off of the 501 until you can figure out how to do it elegantly first.

Programmers, next time, bear down a little bit. Please. This is easy stuff, if you know what you're doing and care to apply yourselves. Stop and think before you aim that revolver at your foot. An ambitious upgrade is not that exciting if it's so poorly executed.

Once again, somebody needed to say it.

[TomCat]

Sorry for the tone, earlier. As you might guess, I'm a bit disappointed with some of the thinking behind the software and recent upgrade.

But something surprising has developed: For some unknown reason the problem that has exhibited itself every single time of the 20 or so times I deleted a program since the 107 upgrade (where it defaults to the PVR listing screen before you get a chance to delete) went away, apparently for good, yesterday.

How is this possible? Was there a fix downloaded? (It appears not...still 107). Is this only a problem that certain boxes are seeing and does it come and go? If so, that's very troubling, because software should not operate differently at different times under the same condition and on the same exact platform. It appears to have to be one explanation or the other...if there's a 3rd its beyond the realm of at least my imagination. Very curious.

[knealy]

Fix the stuttering on playback.
Fix the single framing skips. (It ofter skips ahead or back many frames)

If these two issues were addressed, I'd be thrilled. New features are nice, but after years of dealing with buggy computer software, I'll take stability anytime.

[Jacob S]

Use the channel up and down, theme and browse buttons after pressing pause for the advanced framing features.

[TomCat]

I've noticed yet another problem with the upgrade. Quite often when shuttling between pause and FFWD the program defaults to first frame, meaning you have to shuttle forward all the way back to where you were. I've seen this a dozen times this week alone.