Looks Like NO HD for Me!

[tncolts]

Well folks, today was install day. My installation was supposed to happen between Noon and 5pm. The installer arrived at 2pm and had been on the property all of 5 minutes when he said "Nope, No line of site". So he then stayed a few more minutes and kept saying something about my area (Zip Code: 37033) having to have clear line of site from 180 to 270 (what ever that means, because I have no idea). He looked up and said the only possible place I could install this dish that would allow me to receive a signal from all the satellites would be up on the roof. So I said "Go for it". Not so fast my friend; he then stated -- "Our company (Bruister and Associates) does not allow us to install any dish on the roof above living space. I then asked "Is that the policy of DirecTV?"; "No", he replied, "That is our company's policy".

So then he said I'll have a supervisor come out this afternoon and see if he comes to same conclusion that I come to. The supervisor came about 4 hours later and stayed about 10 minutes and said "They" (WHOEVER THEY IS) will not let us install this dish on the roof". He then quickly said "Well I don't think it's going to work". Without saying another word to me he went back to his van and left. I did not even realize that he left; I thought that he was going back to his van to check on something, but NO!!! he left. I have not heard from any of them!!!

What do you guys recommend?

Is there anyway that I can install the dish myself?

Does anyone know that kind of Line of Sight is required for Centerville, TN (ZipCode: 37033)?

Any help would be appreciated.

[ChrisPC]

Bruister and Associates put a dish on my roof here in Nashville last year. Maybe they've changed their policy since then.

[Davenlr]

The guy is an idiot. The only place you would point a dish 270 degrees would be on the equator, 270 is due west. Call Directv and get your credit for your missed install, and tell them to send someone out with some brains. If they won't, and you really want directv, hire a private company to do a site survey. You can get all the sats using a custom install with multiple dishes at different locations if the single roof install doesn't work out for you.

[LameLefty]

First off, the first installer was an idiot. 180 is due south, and 270 is due west. You do NOT need that wide a swath of sky view. From Murfreesboro, the dish is pointed at 204 degrees, or 24 degrees west of due south.

Second of all, you need to call Directv and tell them their installers are not providing the service Directv has agreed to provide you and ask them to fix the situation.

[spartanstew]

Don't 90% of dishes go on roofs?

[BillyBob_jcv]

I would call DirecTV and tell them the installer refused to complete the install. I would also tell them that you want a different contractor to be sent out. "180 to 270" sounds like an azimuth - but that would be a 90 deg section - and would mean they wanted from due South to due West to be clear? That doesn't make sense at all. Which way does your house face, and can you see the Southern sky?

[tncolts]

I would call DirecTV and tell them the installer refused to complete the install. I would also tell them that you want a different contractor to be sent out. "180 to 270" sounds like an azimuth - but that would be a 90 deg section - and would mean they wanted from due South to due West to be clear? That doesn't make sense at all. Which way does your house face, and can you see the Southern sky?

My house faces north. Yes I can see the southern sky. I currently have a regular dish (sorry don't know what it's called); but I know this, All of signal strength's are between 92 and 100 ( except for those few that are supposed to be 0). But, being the idiot that I am, I have not idea how much more line of sight is needed with the new KA/KU dish.

[tncolts]

Bruister and Associates put a dish on my roof here in Nashville last year. Maybe they've changed their policy since then.

Well they could put it on the roof, but not if the dish would hang over living space. Mine needs to be mounted closer to the gable (according to the installer) in order to have line of sight.

[tncolts]

...I would also tell them that you want a different contractor to be sent out.

Well I did call DirecTV and they said that there were the only contractors in my area that could come out.

[cnmsales]

Well I did call DirecTV and they said that there were the only contractors in my area that could come out.

Maybe the only one D* contracts with but as mentioned before look for a private contractor if you are really wanting D*

[jimmyv2000]

Well they could put it on the roof, but not if the dish would hang over living space. Mine needs to be mounted closer to the gable (according to the installer) in order to have line of sight.

my dish is in the middle of the roof on the backside of my house(cant see it from street)the installer said that it was the best spot for me to pick up the 119:D
as a matter of fact the dish is practially over my bed.
My roof doesnt leak either and i have a VERY HIGH ROOF(see Sig.)

[generalpatton78]

This kind of conduct by installers is horrible. However I'd suggest bribing the installer to just do the job. Tell them if they can't get the signal you will personally give him 50$ or something.

[Ed Campbell]

See if you can find a local home theater group online. Everyone helps everyone else out.

Until the current gen of D* installers in our neck of the woods - who are really good - we had some abysmal installers. I went through 3 before I finally pushed them into bringing on an independent installer to install my 1st 3-lnb dish.

I recommended him to many folks - and still do for those getting DISH subs. They seem to have inherited the worst of the old D* crowd.

Tell D* you'll go to an independent; but, wish to send them the bill after the system is up and provably working > activated.

[HDhysteria]

This kind of conduct by installers is horrible. However I'd suggest bribing the installer to just do the job. Tell them if they can't get the signal you will personally give him 50$ or something.

not sure he would understand money, sounds like a bottle of JACK would do....btw,,, HINT; give the bottle after he comes done from roof.

[generalpatton78]

I think we all understand why the "Hugging the installer" commercials are gone.:lol:

[serial lurker]

Heck - my dish is mounted at the very peak of my roofline. On a 4 foot tall pole to clear the trees. It looks like a church steeple and I think of it as such - the church of NFL sundays :lol:

[Azdeadwood]

Well folks, today was install day. My installation was supposed to happen between Noon and 5pm. The installer arrived at 2pm and had been on the property all of 5 minutes when he said "Nope, No line of site". So he then stayed a few more minutes and kept saying something about my area (Zip Code: 37033) having to have clear line of site from 180 to 270 (what ever that means, because I have no idea). He looked up and said the only possible place I could install this dish that would allow me to receive a signal from all the satellites would be up on the roof. So I said "Go for it". Not so fast my friend; he then stated -- "Our company (Bruister and Associates) does not allow us to install any dish on the roof above living space. I then asked "Is that the policy of DirecTV?"; "No", he replied, "That is our company's policy".

So then he said I'll have a supervisor come out this afternoon and see if he comes to same conclusion that I come to. The supervisor came about 4 hours later and stayed about 10 minutes and said "They" (WHOEVER THEY IS) will not let us install this dish on the roof". He then quickly said "Well I don't think it's going to work". Without saying another word to me he went back to his van and left. I did not even realize that he left; I thought that he was going back to his van to check on something, but NO!!! he left. I have not heard from any of them!!!

What do you guys recommend?

Is there anyway that I can install the dish myself?

Does anyone know that kind of Line of Sight is required for Centerville, TN (ZipCode: 37033)?

Any help would be appreciated.

My installer told me that the only place he could put my 5LNB was on the roof!

Sounds like you have an idiot installer - call customer service and complain. You might even get some free hardware! (I did because my first installer put up the wrong antenna.)

[LameLefty]

Seriously, you DON'T need that much sky view. Get a small compass at an outdoor store and see for yourself. You need a swatch of about 20 degrees (99 - 119) plus some for weather/wind effects on trees. In Murfreesboro that's centered on about 204 degrees or so, and an elevation of around 45 degrees. Centerville isn't THAT far away. So you'll be close to the same measurements. In fact, you're further west than I am to begin with so you'll be another degree or two more south in your azimuth. Anyway, this means you need a clear view of about 180 degrees to 225 and you'll be absolutely fine. Furthermore, with that elevation of about 45 degrees, trees need to be pretty tall for a roof mount or even a tall pole to NOT clear.

I reiterate: those guys are idiots.

[mchaney]

My impression is that a lot of companies won't want to do anything but the most basic installs that have no issues whatsoever. I'd recommend calling D* back, asking for a supervisor from the get go, and telling the supervisor that you want the install company to send a lead tech or a supervisor from the install company out. If there's really nothing they can do, I wonder if they'd complete the job if YOU install the mount on the roof so all they have to do is align the dish?

Mike

[Bowtaz3]

Bruister and Associates put a dish on my roof here in Nashville last year. Maybe they've changed their policy since then.

I live in Alabama and Bruister and Assoc. put one on my roof less than a month ago.

[jcurrier31]

I think the whole thing is just odd.

Technicians, at least I did, when I worked for one of the worst HSP's ever (IRONWOOD), get paid commission. I would bend over backwards to make sure I got every job done. If I didn't I would not make any money. If I did a crappy job, I would have to go back and fix it for free.

What has this world come to when commissioned workers don't want to make any money.

Don't take that Sup's word as he final word, most sup's are very unqualified and just took the job to move from unstable commission to stable salary. If a tech says it can't be done, usually the Sup just goes with it. He figures, He is on commission, he would do it if it was possible. Plus the Sup probably had a date with a pitcher of beer or his XBOX 360.

Be adamant with D*, discredit the gentlemen if necessary. If upper level management gets involved, now the Sup cares, last thing he would want for his boss cut into his happy hour. This also creates a paper trail that the Sup has to report back on.

More than likely, you will have two or three of the most competent techs in your area at your house, at your convenience.

[DBordello]

If you have a single round dish, it is pointed at 101. The majority of HD is now between 99 and 103. Go look at your existing dish and see if it looks like there is something that would block it 2 degrees each way. It is pretty likely that if you can get 101, you can get 99 and 103.

[bfncbs1]

I would call DirecTV and tell them the installer refused to complete the install. I would also tell them that you want a different contractor to be sent out. "180 to 270" sounds like an azimuth - but that would be a 90 deg section - and would mean they wanted from due South to due West to be clear? That doesn't make sense at all. Which way does your house face, and can you see the Southern sky?


Hope you don't end up with my situation. The first installer for D* came out and told me no line of site and left. I knew it was BS from the installer cause I have very few trees but he didn't like the job so he blamed LOS. I was pissed so I was going to switch to E* so I ordered E* and the installer showed up the next day and guess what it was the same installer from D*. He was a installer for both companies! Great huh? As you can guess he did nothing and left.

I finally screamed enough at D* cause I never wanted to leave in the first place and they sent a different company. The guy comes out and finishes the install in less then a hour. No problems at all. Its all about the installer. Some are willing to work and others are only looking for the quick easy installs. Keep in mind these guys are paid a flat rate for every job. So if you have a job that may require ample amount of time they may find a excuse to not install.

My last guy was so good I handed him a 50 spot just for doing a great job and not b*tching!

[gully_foyle]

The guy is an idiot. The only place you would point a dish 270 degrees would be on the equator, 270 is due west. Call Directv and get your credit for your missed install, and tell them to send someone out with some brains. If they won't, and you really want directv, hire a private company to do a site survey. You can get all the sats using a custom install with multiple dishes at different locations if the single roof install doesn't work out for you.

Looking at a world longitude map, from TN, the azimuth range is roughly 190 to 230 to sats orbiting between 99 & 119 west longitude. I say roughly because it doesn't take into account the corrections for elevation. That's roughly a little bit west of due south, to just past southwest.

Is there a place where one has a view from due south to due southwest? If so, that's pretty close. If not, you're SOL.

They may not roof-mount because a poor job will cause roof leaks, and they no longer trust their installers to get it right.

[gully_foyle]

My last guy was so good I handed him a 50 spot just for doing a great job and not b*tching!It's amazing how many install problems can be solved with $50 to the installer. In LA, some of the contract installers get rather less than that from the local install company. A happy installer is far more likely to do it the way you want.

[ActiveHDdave]

NEVER AND I MEAN NEVER GET YOUR DISH INSTALLED ON A WEEKEND!!!!!

The reason is; that's when the Mother of all subcontractors do the installs and they are a joke.

[tncolts]

I live in Alabama and Bruister and Assoc. put one on my roof less than a month ago.

One question (and I know it sounds dumb): Does the dish hang over living space; or is it mounted to the roof and hang over the side?

[gashog301]

I would install myself.

[Scarpad]

I'm due for an installation on the 20th (Could have had one today except that by the time I checked my wife to see if she'd by home all the dates were gone on the automated call) Where the original installer installed my 3lnb dish in May I'm a bit concerned I'll see all the Sattellites there. I asked him at the time and e said it would but I'm dubious. I'm wondering now if it has to be moved will they even bother? From my experience these installer won't take the exra time on a job, probably because DTV packs them with so many installs in a day.

[skohly]

It's amazing how many install problems can be solved with $50 to the installer. In LA, some of the contract installers get rather less than that from the local install company. A happy installer is far more likely to do it the way you want.

Yup, thats the key alright. Talk to the guy and tell him you will duke him and make it worth while. It's worth the 50 or so extra bucks in the long term.

[msmith198025]

Well folks, today was install day. My installation was supposed to happen between Noon and 5pm. The installer arrived at 2pm and had been on the property all of 5 minutes when he said "Nope, No line of site". So he then stayed a few more minutes and kept saying something about my area (Zip Code: 37033) having to have clear line of site from 180 to 270 (what ever that means, because I have no idea). He looked up and said the only possible place I could install this dish that would allow me to receive a signal from all the satellites would be up on the roof. So I said "Go for it". Not so fast my friend; he then stated -- "Our company (Bruister and Associates) does not allow us to install any dish on the roof above living space. I then asked "Is that the policy of DirecTV?"; "No", he replied, "That is our company's policy".

So then he said I'll have a supervisor come out this afternoon and see if he comes to same conclusion that I come to. The supervisor came about 4 hours later and stayed about 10 minutes and said "They" (WHOEVER THEY IS) will not let us install this dish on the roof". He then quickly said "Well I don't think it's going to work". Without saying another word to me he went back to his van and left. I did not even realize that he left; I thought that he was going back to his van to check on something, but NO!!! he left. I have not heard from any of them!!!

What do you guys recommend?

Is there anyway that I can install the dish myself?

Does anyone know that kind of Line of Sight is required for Centerville, TN (ZipCode: 37033)?

Any help would be appreciated.


They put them on the roof all of the time. sounds like some lazy installers

[chopperjc]

Took me 3 different installers and numerous calls to D* before finally getting the install right. Do not give up. A little patience and persistence goes a long way. Is it right? That is for another thread.

[Fl_Gulfer]

You should have been cleaning your guns when he arrived, works everytime.
there insurance may not cover them if they go on you roof.

[jackmacokc]

This kind of conduct by installers is horrible. However I'd suggest bribing the installer to just do the job. Tell them if they can't get the signal you will personally give him 50$ or something.

This is ridiculous and you should be slapped for even suggesting such things...

One question (and I know it sounds dumb): Does the dish hang over living space; or is it mounted to the roof and hang over the side?

I've done it both ways myself. If I was you, and you want to make sure it's done right, just do it yourself. It's not hard at all. I've installed 4 dishes now in the last several years and its really not bad at all. The only downer to the new dishes is they are very heavy.

Here's what you do - just find a good spot where you have maximum sky view, and install it! The dishes should come with directions and it's super easy..and you can pick them up on ebay for super cheap. You'll also want a new multiswitch, which you can also pick up on ebay for super cheap.

If the installers won't install it, just have them leave all the install materials they are allocated to give you..and no need to buy anything on ebay.

When you're done installing the new dish, just go to Home Depot and get some caulk for asphalt/roofs. It's usually black. Just seal all the edges of where the dish makes contact with the roof, and I'd even cover all the bolts you drilled in. If you have a leak, then you missed a spot.

If you need any help, feel free to PM me and I'll be happy to assist you in your install via IM or email. It really is that easy.

Edit: The only real consideration I'd keep is that if you're current dish location is not suitable for the new one, you'll need to run new coax, which is also easy but will cost you some dollars for the proper tools. I bought them and I've used them several times. I also used them to rerun the messes that previous dish/cable installers created. I found them worth buying, but you may not..so keep this in mind.

[directech06]

I'm a former Bruister and Associates employee. Here's the way it works. Bruister employees are NOT suppose to do any on the roof work. Bruisters insurance does NOT cover accidents with employees on roofs. An injured employee could face alot of hardship and even denial of a Workmans Comp claim for any roof related injury. anyone that has had an employee do that work was told out of policy to do it (which Bruister is known for) or it was one that based on experience he felt he could do with limited risk. I did "service calls" sometimes on roofs with the feeling it wasn't their fault that it was done that way and if I was comfortable would do it but never installs where it involves hauling all types of tools and equipment to do the job. A HD KA/KU dish would be one of the most dangerous to do that with.

[Dazed & Confused]

I'm a former Bruister and Associates employee. Here's the way it works. Bruister employees are NOT suppose to do any on the roof work. Bruisters insurance does NOT cover accidents with employees on roofs. An injured employee could face alot of hardship and even denial of a Workmans Comp claim for any roof related injury. anyone that has had an employee do that work was told out of policy to do it (which Bruister is known for) or it was one that based on experience he felt he could do with limited risk. I did "service calls" sometimes on roofs with the feeling it wasn't their fault that it was done that way and if I was comfortable would do it but never installs where it involves hauling all types of tools and equipment to do the job. A HD KA/KU dish would be one of the most dangerous to do that with.

This is mindboggling to me. If you are supposed to be a satellite TV installer, and you won't go on the roof, aren't you kind of in the wrong business?

[directech06]

This is mindboggling to me. If you are supposed to be a satellite TV installer, and you won't go on the roof, aren't you kind of in the wrong business?

Working in safe conditions should NEVER be an issue with any kind of business. I don't hear any consideration for the worker here. You don't seem to have an answer for what could be for the worker if he got injured and denied medical treatment because of going against insurance policy. Trust me, if Bruister could make workers do roof work, they WOULD! You need to be careful who you have come out and do work at your house as far as how much you stomp your feet and cry and push people to get what you want. If that guy had been pushed hard enough to go on that roof to where Bruister gave in and told him to do it anyway, do you know how much of a workmans comp case that opens up for Bruister but also do you know that his lawyer can also come after you in a civil suit and I can tell you, he will WIN. Not to mention the fact that that worker may NEVER fully recover from his injuries. You all better think about that. Is that SAT. still worth that much now?

[sNEIRBO]

I had a similar problem when I upgraded my DISH Net service to their HD package. The DISH installers in Metro Detroit will NOT install the E* dish on the roof. They told me that they got sued when winds ripped a dish off of a house, damaged the roof and caused water damage during a summer storm. Their policy from that point on was pole mounted ground installs only. I didn't care about that, but my neighbors threw a fit about it. One old dude threatened me with legal action, until someone in the DISH forum pointed me to an FCC ruling that said I was allowed to place the dish anywhere I had to to get line of sight. That shut old dude up in a hurry!

The funny thing is, when I switched to DirecTV, their installer told me for my location, the best possible placement of the dish was ON MY ROOF! He asked if it was OK if he put in on the roof, and I said "HELL YES!" That afternoon I dismantled the E* dish and ripped the pole out of the ground. Just to have old dude complain that the D* dish was now on my roof! He muttered something about "why can't you people just get cable so I don't have to look at those damned satellite dishes all the time" as I was walking him off my property telling him he was trespassing and not to come back!

If I were you, I would call D* back and tell them they need to find a different installer in the area to come out and do your install. Since a lot of people have D* dishes mounted on their roofs, this is obviously NOT a D* policy, but the local installer's policy. If D* can't help you with a different installer, pull out the Yellow Pages and start looking for them yourself.

[leww37334]

Working in safe conditions should NEVER be an issue with any kind of business. I don't hear any consideration for the worker here. You don't seem to have an answer for what could be for the worker if he got injured and denied medical treatment because of going against insurance policy. Trust me, if Bruister could make workers do roof work, they WOULD! You need to be careful who you have come out and do work at your house as far as how much you stomp your feet and cry and push people to get what you want. If that guy had been pushed hard enough to go on that roof to where Bruister gave in and told him to do it anyway, do you know how much of a workmans comp case that opens up for Bruister but also do you know that his lawyer can also come after you in a civil suit and I can tell you, he will WIN. Not to mention the fact that that worker may NEVER fully recover from his injuries. You all better think about that. Is that SAT. still worth that much now?


Based on that logic, That it is totally unsafe to work on roofs, I hope I never have to have my roof repaired.

This is the contractor's problem for not getting the proper insurance coverage policy, this is like an electrical contractor saying I am going to get a policy that does not cover my employees if they receive an electrical shock.

This company should not be allowed to install dishes period.

[Bitz69]

Working in safe conditions should NEVER be an issue with any kind of business. I don't hear any consideration for the worker here. You don't seem to have an answer for what could be for the worker if he got injured and denied medical treatment because of going against insurance policy. Trust me, if Bruister could make workers do roof work, they WOULD! You need to be careful who you have come out and do work at your house as far as how much you stomp your feet and cry and push people to get what you want. If that guy had been pushed hard enough to go on that roof to where Bruister gave in and told him to do it anyway, do you know how much of a workmans comp case that opens up for Bruister but also do you know that his lawyer can also come after you in a civil suit and I can tell you, he will WIN. Not to mention the fact that that worker may NEVER fully recover from his injuries. You all better think about that. Is that SAT. still worth that much now?

Well there need to get a better insurance company or get into a new line of work, most installs are on roofs, its the nature of the business..

We're sorry sir, we cant re-shingle your roof, we're not allowed to go up on the roof to do so. our insurance company doesnt cover roof work..

But sir, you're a roofing company!

We know, but it's out of our control.

all jobs have inherit risks, getting out of bed in the morning has its own risk.

[directech06]

Based on that logic, That it is totally unsafe to work on roofs, I hope I never have to have my roof repaired.

This is the contractor's problem for not getting the proper insurance coverage policy, this is like an electrical contractor saying I am going to get a policy that does not cover my employees if they receive an electrical shock.

This company should not be allowed to install dishes period.

I never said it was totally unsafe, I just said that it can be dangerous and no one should be expected to do it if they are not covered. I'm not gonna disagree with you about the company but just remember that it is not the fault of the individual that you have show up at your house. He shouldn't be subjected to your kicking and screaming 8 year old tantrum that you punish your kids for daily.. Call someone that has control of it which he doesn't. Most installs are in the EDGE of the roof, that doesn't require completely scaling a roof. I've done this work sir, don't tell me whats involved in a install. I had a 97% completion record on assigned jobs and never had to leave my ladder to go on a roof for an install. And yes, every job has a risk and it's one that I assumed but roofers are covered, I'm not. I did what I'm covered for and did it well.

[newsposter]

If you have a single round dish, it is pointed at 101. The majority of HD is now between 99 and 103. Go look at your existing dish and see if it looks like there is something that would block it 2 degrees each way. It is pretty likely that if you can get 101, you can get 99 and 103.


i thought so too. I knew i had 119 blocked but then he said i cant get in new HD birds there either. But i thought since 101 was perfect that there would be no issues. not true. (unless he lied) So mounted on other side of roof and i get all in perfect (almost)

[newsposter]

NEVER AND I MEAN NEVER GET YOUR DISH INSTALLED ON A WEEKEND!!!!!

The reason is; that's when the Mother of all subcontractors do the installs and they are a joke.

I have to say, the sr tech (ironwood) that did mine did a good job on the dish (mostly). got me 119 where i never thought i would in my life. the only issue i had was he didnt stay to activate the receiver and it took over 4 calls and 2 hours to get the HDpak turned on. He didnt put in the zinwell and other lines to my other 2 tivos so another tech came out and did that and peaked the dish.

2nd guy admitted he didnt know squat though when i asked him about my tuner issues.

[SatNoob]

He has a job either do it or quit. Feeding the vultures is also BS. Customers should be happy not installers who are being paid what they signed on to do.

Complain find a real installer, never considering paying a low life extra because he's lazy. Underpaid or not who says you have to take the shaft to make up for it.

[directech06]

He has a job either do it or quit. Feeding the vultures is also BS. Customers should be happy not installers who are being paid what they signed on to do.

Complain find a real installer, never considering paying a low life extra because he's lazy. Underpaid or not who says you have to take the shaft to make up for it.

You people remind me of liberal Democrats. Dodge the issue or the question and have no solution. Just complain. You people could have a car throw a piston thru the hood of your car and expect and demand no matter what a $30 tune-up to fix it, in other words the impossible. If it can't be done , it can't be done. It amazes me how much people s^%t on people just to get what they want . I find it amazing that people are so narrow minded over something like TV that they would ask anyone to put themselves into that kind of situation. Whether you agree or not about the company doing a job with that kind of insurance restrictions, thats your right and its a good point but I still find it hard to believe whether you like the situation with the insurance or not, people are jerks enough to ask someone to risk their future uncovered, because your right bitz69, you can get hurt just getting out of bed, but you have insurance to cover that don't you? Don't ask someone to do a job they're not covered for. If I'm insured, I'll do anyones roof. If not, I hate it for you. You know d$%n good and well you wouldn't either. No one in any type job signs on to get hurt and if I haven't seen it before, I would never believe that you people existed. Thats ok folks, trust me, you'll only do it once (then he and their WC lawyer in a civil suite sue the piss out of you anyway and get $150,000 out of your homeowners insurance policy and next month they drop you because the IC has to help support his family the rest of his life).

[msmith198025]

You people remind me of liberal Democrats. Dodge the issue or the question and have no solution. Just complain. You people could have a car throw a piston thru the hood of your car and expect and demand no matter what a $30 tune-up to fix it, in other words the impossible. If it can't be done , it can't be done. It amazes me how much people s^%t on people just to get what they want . I find it amazing that people are so narrow minded over something like TV that they would ask anyone to put themselves into that kind of situation. Whether you agree or not about the company doing a job with that kind of insurance restrictions, thats your right and its a good point but I still find it hard to believe whether you like the situation with the insurance or not, people are jerks enough to ask someone to risk their future uncovered, because your right bitz69, you can get hurt just getting out of bed, but you have insurance to cover that don't you? No one in any type job signs on to get hurt and if I haven't seen it before, I would never believe that you people existed. Thats ok folks, trust me, you'll only do it once (until he and their WC lawyer in a civil suite sue the piss out of you anyway and get $150,000 out of your homeowners insurance policy and next month they drop you).

No one in any job signs up to get hurt. Sure, but there are more risks in some than others, and if you cant do it and arent covered incase of accidents, then find a new job.

[directech06]

No one in any job signs up to get hurt. Sure, but there are more risks in some than others, and if you cant do it and arent covered incase of accidents, then find a new job.

Thats a good analogy. If everyone did that, then you would back in the stone age when you went and bought a complete system off the shelf at K-Mart and had to do it yourself. Then who would you b%^ch to? You people wouldn't survive that. You'd be in a looney bin.

[fwlogue]

Thats a good analogy. If everyone did that, then you would back in the stone age when you went and bought a complete system off the shelf at K-Mart and had to do it yourself. Then who would you b%^ch to? You people wouldn't survive that. You'd be in a looney bin.

I would much rather install my system myself. If d* would supply me the equipment without sending an installer out I would much rather have it that way but they won't.

[directech06]

I would much rather install my system myself. If d* would supply me the equipment without sending an installer out I would much rather have it that way but they won't.

It can be bought after-market. Best Buy has the receivers, you can get multi-switches, dishes, cable, receivers, everything on Ebay alone all day long. You'll be missing on all the freebies and specials doing that way though. If you go HD though, I'd hate to be you trying to tune in SATS 99, 101, 103, 110, and 119 without a birddog meter much less get the correct tilt of the dish to hit all 5 at once and line up a round dish for 72.5 if you have to have it for locals unless you know what your doing. Not to mention what goes where on the multi-switch. But yea, you could.

[Bill Broderick]

What it really comes down to is that DirecTV shouldn't be using an installation contractor that doesn't have the proper insurance for their installers to do work on people's roofs. Not having that level of insurance is the same as if their insurance didn't cover the installers when driving to and from installations.

On Long Island, because of the number of trees in a typical neighborhood, I would estimate that about 90% of installations are either on the roof or chimney of houses. After tomorrow, 2 of my 3 dishes will be roof installations, with the third on the "house side" of my chimney (which couldn't possibly have been installed without getting off of the ladder and onto my roof.

If the local installers didn't do roof installations on Long Island, there would be very very few DirecTV or Dish customers here.

[directech06]

What it really comes down to is that DirecTV shouldn't be using an installation contractor that doesn't have the proper insurance for their installers to do work on people's roofs. Not having that level of insurance is the same as if their insurance didn't cover the installers when driving to and from installations.

On Long Island, because of the number of trees in a typical neighborhood, I would estimate that about 90% of installations are either on the roof or chimney of houses. After tomorrow, 2 of my 3 dishes will be roof installations, with the third on the "house side" of my chimney (which couldn't possibly have been installed without getting off of the ladder and onto my roof.

If the local installers didn't do roof installations on Long Island, there would be very very few DirecTV or Dish customers here.

Bill, like I said, I agree with you as far as the insurance thing. My problem is jerks who care more for their TV than people like the situation at hand or not. It is what it is at that moment and pushing someone into a job they're not covered for when the insurance situation is not acceptable isn't acceptable either and shows how little value people put on respect for someone else on something as stupid as a luxury, not a necessity.

[fwlogue]

It can be bought after-market. Best Buy has the receivers, you can get multi-switches, dishes, cable, receivers, everything on Ebay alone all day long. You'll be missing on all the freebies and specials doing that way though. If you go HD though, I'd hate to be you trying to tune in SATS 99, 101, 103, 110, and 119 without a birddog meter much less get the correct tilt of the dish to hit all 5 at once and line up a round dish for 72.5 if you have to have it for locals unless you know what your doing. Not to mention what goes where on the multi-switch. But yea, you could.

I have installed several dishes and have even re-aligned my 5 LNB yes I know you can by everything from other sources and have a few times. My switch and SWM and everything inside the house for that matter including the wiring was installed by me. When I got the 5 LNB right after they came out I had D* come out and install of course at that time there was no 103b to check alignement by when it went live I had signals in the 60's did a little tweak and 87 to 95 on all 103B trasnponders you do not need a bird dog to align although it makes it alot easier.

[directech06]

I have installed several dishes and have even re-aligned my 5 LNB yes I know you can by everything from other sources and have a few times. My switch and SWM and everything inside the house for that matter including the wiring was installed by me. When I got the 5 LNB right after they came out I had D* come out and install of course at that time there was no 103b to check alignement by when it went live I had signals in the 60's did a little tweak and 87 to 95 on all 103B trasnponders you do not need a bird dog to align although it makes it alot easier.

Cool, good job, what I was saying your avg. Joe couldn't.

[Bill Broderick]

My problem is jerks who care more for their TV than people like the situation at hand or not.


The problem is that, the installer ends up becoming the public representative of a company that is not providing the level of service that it is supposed to be providing. Therefore, I don't know why an installer for that company would be surprised when a customer gets angry and argues with them.

If there was only one option for purchasing gasoline in an area, yet the gas station attendant told you that he can't sell you gas because his station doesn't have insurance for putting gas into blue cars (or whatever color car you own), and that gas station attendant is the only person at the gas station, are you just going to drive away without gas (which will cause you to run out of gas), because of a situation that make absolutely no sense at all, or are you going to argue with the attendant?

How is it any different when a representative, of the only installation company that can be used to get DirecTV installed, tells a customer that they can't install a satellite dish on the roof because the company doesn't have the proper insurance for that?

It's a moronic rule and installers should be angry at the company for making their lives more difficult, rather than at the customers who are not getting the service that they are supposed to be getting.

[directech06]

The problem is that, the installer ends up becoming the public representative of a company that is not providing the level of service that it is supposed to be providing. Therefore, I don't know why an installer for that company would be surprised when a customer gets angry and argues with them.

If there was only one option for purchasing gasoline in an area, yet the gas station attendant told you that he can't sell you gas because his station doesn't have insurance for putting gas into blue cars (or whatever color car you own), and that gas station attendant is the only person at the gas station, are you just going to drive away without gas (which will cause you to run out of gas), because of a situation that make absolutely no sense at all, or are you going to argue with the attendant?

How is it any different when a representative, of the only installation company that can be used to get DirecTV installed, tells a customer that they can't install a satellite dish on the roof because the company doesn't have the proper insurance for that?

It's a moronic rule and installers should be angry at the company for making their lives more difficult, rather than at the customers who are not getting the service that they are supposed to be getting.

The difference is, we're talking about safety issues and the employees protection in the event of an accident. Thats an awful comparison.
"Suppose to be getting"? A store or company or whoever is not obligated by law to provide you with anything. It is a service, not a right. If cable does not want to put cable in your new neighborhood, they don't have to. If you act out of line when someone like someone who has his own private plumbing company comes to do a job for you, they can get in their vehicle and leave and you can't do a darn thing about it. He leaves because he doesn't want to deal with your attitude and you've still got the leak. I was at a house one time doing a job and a landscaper showed up to do a landscaping job for this guy and the guy that was going to do the job told the homeowner that some type of work couldn't be done because of run-off. The homeowner start shouting, telling him that he wanted it done. The landscaper and his crew quietly walked of, got in their truck and left. They told him they weren't gonna put up with his attitude and he kept going. I have had people on service calls that the minute I come to the door their yelling, screaming, ect... even had one get in my face one time, he was a guy with money with all the HD stuff and all that, probably like most of you and I've said "with all due respect sir, if you want to tell me what is wrong quietly, I'll do what I can to fix the problem, otherwise, I'm gonna get back in my van and leave, call my office, tell them how your acting and when you calm down and talk to me with respect, I will come back. If that happen more like it used to 15-20+ years ago before business started kissing butts and had balls about what they would take from people, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.
I told you I agree with the insurance thing, but the one that you are acting like a toddler with has no control or authority to change a policy, even if it's dealing with another policy issue such as Directv's policy of no installs if you can't ground the system properly for example. You wanna make a jackass out of yourself, do it to someone like his supervisor who maybe but not likely can do something like maybe get authorization to make an exception. Not someone who's trying to do his job and follow policy not matter what the issue is or the kind of work they do. If the tech though is being asked to do something he's not gonna be protected for, if he's got any sense, he'll get in his van and leave. There are laws to protect him to where he can't be fired. I'll let you all in on a little secret though, behind the scenes Directv agrees with the no climbing on the roof policy but deligate it to their installer companies because they are the ones that are going to have to deal with the WC claim.

[msmith198025]

Thats a good analogy. If everyone did that, then you would back in the stone age when you went and bought a complete system off the shelf at K-Mart and had to do it yourself. Then who would you b%^ch to? You people wouldn't survive that. You'd be in a looney bin.

You assume too much with your condesending answers. I have and am capable of installing myself as I suspect are many customers. Dont actually recall bitching to anyone.

[directech06]

You assume too much with your condesending answers. I have and am capable of installing myself as I suspect are many customers. Dont actually recall bitching to anyone.

Well you are then among the exception, not the norm. As far as being condescending, I'm not. I've saw enough people in that business to where I don't have to make assumptions or accusations. Your from Mississippi too. People there are mostly calm, respectful, levelheaded people. I can believe you wouldn't be one of those people. I volunteered to worked there after Katrina for a couple of weeks. Loved the people there.

[CJTE]

BTW, if you have a circuit city in town, you can pay firedog to do the install and then D* will credit it back to your account, but please
!CALL BEFORE HAND!

[directech06]

BTW, if you have a circuit city in town, you can pay firedog to do the install and then D* will credit it back to your account, but please
!CALL BEFORE HAND!

If you use them you better make sure that they ground your system. They flunk most of their QC checks from Directv.

[Upstream]

The difference is, we're talking about safety issues and the employees protection in the event of an accident. Thats an awful comparison.

"Suppose to be getting"? A store or company or whoever is not obligated by law to provide you with anything.


Pumping gasoline also has safety risks. So the insurance comparison seems valid here.

You are correct in your comment regarding the phrase "supposed to be getting." The better phrase would have been regarding the service customers "expect to be getting."


It is beyond absurd for Brewster not to have insurance for roof installations of satellite dishes. It is also absurd for them to put installers in the position of having to explain it to customers. DirecTV or Brewster should have informed the customer in advance when the installation was scheduled. (At the very least, they should provide installers with a written explanation of the insurance issue, so customers are know that what the installer is saying is accurate.)

And while it is wrong for customers to through a tantrum and blame the installer, it is understandable that customers will be frustrated and annoyed that the expected installation won't happen because the installation company failed to get the proper insurance. Some customers just react better to annoyance and frustration.

[Guindalf]

How about looking around and seeing where your neighbors have their dishes? There must be some with D*! If you can find something with a similar setup as yourself, you could point it out to the installers and ask them to duplicate it!

[directech06]

Pumping gasoline also has safety risks. So the insurance comparison seems valid here.

You are correct in your comment regarding the phrase "supposed to be getting." The better phrase would have been regarding the service customers "expect to be getting."


It is beyond absurd for Brewster not to have insurance for roof installations of satellite dishes. It is also absurd for them to put installers in the position of having to explain it to customers. DirecTV or Brewster should have informed the customer in advance when the installation was scheduled. (At the very least, they should provide installers with a written explanation of the insurance issue, so customers are know that what the installer is saying is accurate.)

And while it is wrong for customers to through a tantrum and blame the installer, it is understandable that customers will be frustrated and annoyed that the expected installation won't happen because the installation company failed to get the proper insurance. Some customers just react better to annoyance and frustration.

This will probably be called lame but have you people when you go to get SAT happen to have looked at the fact you have a acre lot more or less and it is so overrun in trees, ect... did you ever consider the fact that MAYBE your place would not be suitable for it?Upstream, your response has had more logic to it than anyones. Glad to see you.

[msmith198025]

Well you are then among the exception, not the norm. As far as being condescending, I'm not. I've saw enough people in that business to where I don't have to make assumptions or accusations. Your from Mississippi too. People there are mostly calm, respectful, levelheaded people. I can believe you wouldn't be one of those people. I volunteered to worked there after Katrina for a couple of weeks. Loved the people there.

Yes i like to think i am. But when you make statements that include "you people" and "who would you bitch to then" it reads that way. Might not have been your intent, id just be a little more careful about how i worded things just to be sure. No biggie:)

[CJTE]

If you use them you better make sure that they ground your system. They flunk most of their QC checks from Directv.

Thanks, thats good to know. My ironwood guys are freaking awesome so I dont have to worry about it.
But there was a post somewhere that said we only have 1 choice in regards to "free" installations.

[directech06]

Thanks, thats good to know. My ironwood guys are freaking awesome so I dont have to worry about it.
But there was a post somewhere that said we only have 1 choice in regards to "free" installations.

Welcome. I had to go out and fix some of their stuff before whether it was a problem or getting it up to code, wasn't happy.

[msfaulk]

Who bitched at the installer? The OP seems to have handled things just fine. No indication of getting upset at the installer. It seems the supervisor was the rude one. I also don't recall anyone suggesting the OP should bitch at the installer, only call DTV and bitch at them. As for the 50 spot to do the job, that's on the installer if he does it. He knows the risks. He can take it or not. As the homeowner should also know the risk of a law suite if something goes wrong.

[jtn]

Well folks, today was install day. My installation was supposed to happen between Noon and 5pm. The installer arrived at 2pm and had been on the property all of 5 minutes when he said "Nope, No line of site". So he then stayed a few more minutes and kept saying something about my area (Zip Code: 37033) having to have clear line of site from 180 to 270 (what ever that means, because I have no idea). He looked up and said the only possible place I could install this dish that would allow me to receive a signal from all the satellites would be up on the roof. So I said "Go for it". Not so fast my friend; he then stated -- "Our company (Bruister and Associates) does not allow us to install any dish on the roof above living space. I then asked "Is that the policy of DirecTV?"; "No", he replied, "That is our company's policy".

So then he said I'll have a supervisor come out this afternoon and see if he comes to same conclusion that I come to. The supervisor came about 4 hours later and stayed about 10 minutes and said "They" (WHOEVER THEY IS) will not let us install this dish on the roof". He then quickly said "Well I don't think it's going to work". Without saying another word to me he went back to his van and left. I did not even realize that he left; I thought that he was going back to his van to check on something, but NO!!! he left. I have not heard from any of them!!!

What do you guys recommend?

Is there anyway that I can install the dish myself?

Does anyone know that kind of Line of Sight is required for Centerville, TN (ZipCode: 37033)?

Any help would be appreciated.

DIY (Do It Yourself) if you know how.;) Or get cable tv, Verizon FiOS , AT&T if available in your area, and try Dish Network.

[directech06]

As for the 50 spot to do the job, that's on the installer if he does it. He knows the risks. He can take it or not. As the homeowner should also know the risk of a law suite if something goes wrong.

Well said. Even if he accepts the money, the homeowner is still liable if something happens.

[directech06]

Well folks, today was install day. My installation was supposed to happen between Noon and 5pm. The installer arrived at 2pm and had been on the property all of 5 minutes when he said "Nope, No line of site". So he then stayed a few more minutes and kept saying something about my area (Zip Code: 37033) having to have clear line of site from 180 to 270 (what ever that means, because I have no idea). He looked up and said the only possible place I could install this dish that would allow me to receive a signal from all the satellites would be up on the roof. So I said "Go for it". Not so fast my friend; he then stated -- "Our company (Bruister and Associates) does not allow us to install any dish on the roof above living space. I then asked "Is that the policy of DirecTV?"; "No", he replied, "That is our company's policy".

So then he said I'll have a supervisor come out this afternoon and see if he comes to same conclusion that I come to. The supervisor came about 4 hours later and stayed about 10 minutes and said "They" (WHOEVER THEY IS) will not let us install this dish on the roof". He then quickly said "Well I don't think it's going to work". Without saying another word to me he went back to his van and left. I did not even realize that he left; I thought that he was going back to his van to check on something, but NO!!! he left. I have not heard from any of them!!!

What do you guys recommend?

Is there anyway that I can install the dish myself?

Does anyone know that kind of Line of Sight is required for Centerville, TN (ZipCode: 37033)?

Any help would be appreciated.

It's actually 200-250 but anyway, thats the numeric position on a compass. You have to have that much clear line of sight to hit all 5 of the SAT's to get all of the signals you need with a elevation clearance at least 45 degree high plus. I'm assuming your dish was going to be a KA/KU. You put that monster on a roof, you better make sure you have the tripod that goes with it too and plenty of roof tar to seal all those lag bolts you'll use or a good T-Storm will tear that thing off your roof. Then you have to get it lined up with the correct elevation and tilt. If you've never done this before, you'll be hours hitting it if you ever get them all. You can try to hit SAT101 and get a good signal at 214 on the compass and try to tune the rest in by adjusting the elevation and tilt. Or invest in a good signal meter to tune it in with. You put it on the roof YOU will need it to retune it occasionally as the wind blows on it for a period of time. Good luck.

[pogo]

The only place you would point a dish 270 degrees would be on the equator?huh?

[ChrisQ]

If that guy had been pushed hard enough to go on that roof to where Bruister gave in and told him to do it anyway, do you know how much of a workmans comp case that opens up for Bruister but also do you know that his lawyer can also come after you in a civil suit and I can tell you, he will WIN.

Wrong. Do not be discouraged from asking the installer to climb on the roof based on the threat of being sued. As long as your roof is in proper shape, you have nothing to fear.

Each state has their own wordings and different takes on the law, but there is one key word everywhere you go: NEGLIGENCE. There are 3 basic points you have to prove to win a personal injury case against a property owner:

1. You first have to show that there was some dangerous condition that doesn't normally exist that caused you to be injured. If you knowingly climb on a steep roof you assume the risk of falling, same as if you knowingly stick your hand in a fire it's your own fault if you get burned.
2. You then have to show that the property owner knew of or reasonably should have known of the dangerous condition that caused the accident.
3. You finally must show that the property owner had time to fix the problem and NEGLECTED to correct it or neglected to warn you of it before the accident occurred.

If you don't prove those 3 points to the extent demanded by whatever state you are in, you lose your case.

I do agree completely with directech06 that it's not the installer's obligation to violate company policy to appease a potential customer. I'm glad the installers climbed on my roof or I'd have no D* either.

[directech06]

Wrong. Do not be discouraged from asking the installer to climb on the roof based on the threat of being sued. As long as your roof is in proper shape, you have nothing to fear.

Each state has their own wordings and different takes on the law, but there is one key word everywhere you go: NEGLIGENCE. There are 3 basic points you have to prove to win a personal injury case against a property owner:

1. You first have to show that there was some dangerous condition that doesn't normally exist that caused you to be injured. If you knowingly climb on a steep roof you assume the risk of falling, same as if you knowingly stick your hand in a fire it's your own fault if you get burned.
2. You then have to show that the property owner knew of or reasonably should have known of the dangerous condition that caused the accident.
3. You finally must show that the property owner had time to fix the problem and NEGLECTED to correct it or neglected to warn you of it before the accident occurred.

If you don't prove those 3 points to the extent demanded by whatever state you are in, you lose your case.

I do agree completely with directech06 that it's not the installer's obligation to violate company policy to appease a potential customer. I'm glad the installers climbed on my roof or I'd have no D* either.

I would never have made that claim without proof. I was not just blowing smoke. A DISH NETWORK tech that I don't know personally but know of from a family member in Louisiana was forced to do a roof mount to appease a customer against policy with a super dish a couple of years ago ended up getting hurt after he fell. The ground that his ladder was on ended up being on soft ground that gave and couldn't have been seen or predicted. He fell when the ladder sank enough to unbalance it on one side when he was getting back on it to get down from the roof. Ended up with a L-4, L-5 lumbar fusion surgery in his back and ended up between WC compromise and release settlement and suing the homeowner with $250,000. I think $130,000 of it came from the 3rd party suite of the customer. He was put into a situation he wasn't suppose to be put into, good roof, whatever, THEY ARE LIABLE.

[onin24eagle]

Look, you get what you pay for.

Unfortunately times have changed. Maybe a lot of you don't remember what it was like in '94. You would go to a retailer to buy the system for $699 for a single lnb dish and one receiver. You then paid approximately $150 to $200 for the same company you bought it from to install it to your liking. We once installed a dish on the side of a old, dead oak tree because that's where the guy wanted it intalled. My point is, the client knew exactly who he/she was dealing with from start to finish. They paid for it, and got excellent service.

Today, you pay nothing! And, you get what you pay for. Directv has to hire subcontractors to do their work for them. Directv has litterally no control over the installs, and becuase they have to give us our free stuff, they don't pay enough to hire companies that will do things the correct way.

To the original poster: Just go to a private retailer that does custom home theater installs, and pay them to get the job done correctly. Good luck.

[msmith198025]

I would never have made that claim without proof. I was not just blowing smoke. A DISH NETWORK tech that I don't know personally but know of from a family member in Louisiana was forced to do a roof mount to appease a customer against policy with a super dish a couple of years ago ended up getting hurt after he fell. The ground that his ladder was on ended up being on soft ground that gave and couldn't have been seen or predicted. He fell when the ladder sank enough to unbalance it on one side when he was getting back on it to get down from the roof. Ended up with a L-4, L-5 lumbar fusion surgery in his back and ended up between WC compromise and release settlement and suing the homeowner with $250,000. I think $130,000 of it came from the 3rd party suite of the customer. He was put into a situation he wasn't suppose to be put into, good roof, whatever, THEY ARE LIABLE.

That may have been true in that case, but there also were probably factors that we dont know about. If you arent negligent, you are safe under the interpretation of the law.

[directech06]

That may have been true in that case, but there also were probably factors that we dont know about. If you arent negligent, you are safe under the interpretation of the law.

You people want to play Russian roulette with everything you own over TV, be my guest. If you end up being one of the ones that looses, (even though you won't ever admit it) you'll pay for how wrong you were. Trust me, I've been out there in the trenches and did it for 5 years and have seen and heard of it happening on more than one occasion.

[msmith198025]

You people want to play Russian roulette with everything you own over TV, be my guest. If you end up being one of the ones that looses, (even though you won't ever admit it) you'll pay for how wrong you were. Trust me, I've been out there in the trenches and did it for 5 years and have seen and heard of it happening on more than one occasion.

who is playing games over tv? None of us said we were. You act like no one has had a tv put on a roof and those that have are crazy for doing it. THe guy just asked for advice and people have given it. You gave him a warning and im sure he appreciates it, but everything is not as bad as you make it seem.

[directech06]

who is playing games over tv? None of us said we were. You act like no one has had a tv put on a roof and those that have are crazy for doing it. THe guy just asked for advice and people have given it. You gave him a warning and im sure he appreciates it, but everything is not as bad as you make it seem.

msmith198025, you seem more intelligent than that. Read thru the thread again. There are people in here that directly or indirectly have said they have pushed the issue to or would to get what they want and don't think they should be or could be held accountable for it if someone gets hurt. Have they ever thought about the fact the the idiots that they manage to get to do something against insurance and/or company policy by offering them $50 bucks or whatever may be thinking "yea, I'll get me more money and if I get hurt, will get even more'. I've worked with people who have said that. How serious they were, thats debatable. Willing to take that chance, I wouldn't be. Also the guy who's too afraid to stand up for himself in fear of his job being forced into it. We all know how the judicial system works in this country. An attorney working on a suit like this goes and finds the most Liberal judge he can find to file the lawsuit with. If he does, you might as well put the nail in the coffin or stick a fork in, you're done. This is the ONLY time you will ever hear me say I agree with the Liberal part of our court system too cause I hate Liberals.

[msmith198025]

msmith198025, you seem more intelligent than that. Read thru the thread again. There are people in here that directly or indirectly have said they have pushed the issue to or would to get what they want and don't think they should be or could be held accountable for it if someone gets hurt. Have they ever thought about the fact the the idiots that they manage to get to do something against insurance and/or company policy by offering them $50 bucks or whatever may be thinking "yea, I'll get me more money and if I get hurt, will get even more'. I've worked with people who have said that. How serious they were, thats debatable. Willing to take that chance, I wouldn't be. Also the guy who's too afraid to stand up for himself in fear of his job being forced into it. We all know how the judicial system works in this country. An attorney working on a suit like this goes and finds the most Liberal judge he can find to file the lawsuit with. If he does, you might as well put the nail in the coffin or stick a fork in, you're done. This is the ONLY time you will ever hear me say I agree with the Liberal part of our court system too cause I hate Liberals. I'm a Conservative that believes that all people have rights, not classes of people being able to use their class to influence and intimidate people they feel like they are better than.

Look, i see your point. However if everything is as safe as you can possibly make it and you arent negligent in the event the guy gets hurt, i dont see the problem. In 99% of the cases you would be covered. If the installer is that adamant about not doing roof installs he just shouldnt do it and you should get someone out who will if thats what you want.

I disagree with your stance on that part of the judicial system. The type of people that have an accident, mainly from lack of paying attention on their part, and then sue just because they can are the reason that this country is in the shape its in. Kind of like that woman that sued because the coffee she spilled on herself was hot. Lawsuits should be left to when someone has been genuinly wronged , and an installer willingly going on a SAFE roof is not in that category IMO

[directech06]

Look, i see your point. However if everything is as safe as you can possibly make it and you arent negligent in the event the guy gets hurt, i dont see the problem. In 99% of the cases you would be covered. If the installer is that adamant about not doing roof installs he just shouldnt do it and you should get someone out who will if thats what you want.

I disagree with your stance on that part of the judicial system. The type of people that have an accident, mainly from lack of paying attention on their part, and then sue just because they can are the reason that this country is in the shape its in. Kind of like that woman that sued because the coffee she spilled on herself was hot. Lawsuits should be left to when someone has been genuinly wronged , and an installer willingly going on a SAFE roof is not in that category IMO

You don't think it's wrong to force an new employee scared for his job into situation like that? I do.

[msmith198025]

You don't think it's wrong to force an new employee scared for his job into situation like that? I do.

Who is forcing him??? You ask and he says yes, how is that using force? If he doesnt want to do it he doesnt have to. If the company really does have a policy about no roof installs why would he get fired for not doing one even if the customer complained? Sometimes the "victim" has to take responsibility for his own actions.

[sNEIRBO]

There are plenty of jobs I WOULD do if I HAD to. However - I would not feed Lions, even though I'm pretty sure I could do so without injury 90% of the time, if the Zoo didn't have insurance that would cover my injuries in case of an accidental mauling.

Aesthetically, IMO, most people want that dish on their roof. If your company is not insured correctly to cover your injuries if you slip off any roof (be it well maintained, or unsafe) while performing the reasonable functions of your job, then you need to find other employment.

Second - DirecTV also needs to rid themselves of that installation company. If their customers can not get what they want, then the customers will stop buying that service. Case in point, the OP of this thread. DirecTV has now lost a customer who wanted HD service, and along with him, a 2 year commitment to their service - lost revenue.

I can GUARANTEE that DISH Net did themselves more damage than good, by allowing their installer to mount my E* dish on a pole instead of a roof mount like I wanted. I did not force the installer to roof mount the E* dish. He explained the large size of the dish could cause my roof to be damage by high winds, so I allowed him to put it on the pole. BUT, I had numerous complaints about the pole mount from neighbors, and I watched in amazement as month after month D* dishes were mounted on neighboring roofs. I am positive the unattractiveness of the E* dish pole mount on my highly visible corner lot, caused a lot of my neighbors to look elsewhere for their SAT service.

I agree with you that you should not be forced, coerced or otherwise badgered into performing work you determine to be hazardous. However, a blanket policy (whether lack of insurance or fear of a lawsuit based) that results in ongoing deterioration of the market share of the product you install is only going to lead to one conclusion . . . your eventual unemployment.

[directech06]

There are plenty of jobs I WOULD do if I HAD to. However - I would not feed Lions, even though I'm pretty sure I could do so without injury 90% of the time, if the Zoo didn't have insurance that would cover my injuries in case of an accidental mauling.

Aesthetically, IMO, most people want that dish on their roof. If your company is not insured correctly to cover your injuries if you slip off any roof (be it well maintained, or unsafe) while performing the reasonable functions of your job, then you need to find other employment.

Second - DirecTV also needs to rid themselves of that installation company. If their customers can not get what they want, then the customers will stop buying that service. Case in point, the OP of this thread. DirecTV has now lost a customer who wanted HD service, and along with him, a 2 year commitment to their service - lost revenue.

I can GUARANTEE that DISH Net did themselves more damage than good, by allowing their installer to mount my E* dish on a pole instead of a roof mount like I wanted. I did not force the installer to roof mount the E* dish. He explained the large size of the dish could cause my roof to be damage by high winds, so I allowed him to put it on the pole. BUT, I had numerous complaints about the pole mount from neighbors, and I watched in amazement as month after month D* dishes were mounted on neighboring roofs. I am positive the unattractiveness of the E* dish pole mount on my highly visible corner lot, caused a lot of my neighbors to look elsewhere for their SAT service.

I agree with you that you should not be forced, coerced or otherwise badgered into performing work you determine to be hazardous. However, a blanket policy (whether lack of insurance or fear of a lawsuit based) that results in ongoing deterioration of the market share of the product you install is only going to lead to one conclusion . . . your eventual unemployment.

Ok, first: Alot of what you said I either agree with or glad you concur with me. Here's where we differ. First, the installation company in question is the largest single installer Directv has in their loop. They have a 93% completed install rate which is higher than anyone in the installer contract network. I don't know where you live at but when I did this (in Alabama) and I was out of town alot doing other areas too, I only had maybe 1-5 at the most a month of installs that the only way to do the install was up on the roof and Bama is full of trees buddy. Then I MAYBE sometimes had people that tried to insist on going way up on the roof when it wasn't even needed. They had a line of sight anywhere in the yard and it didn't get done on the roof either. It was a unneeded risk and most installer companies even if they do roof mounts it is a last resort (even require a 2nd tech to assist with the job) and anyone that has a line of sight elsewhere on the property will not get a roof mount. My point is they were VERY few and if you think jerks like that or the policy is hurting Directv, your fooling yourself. They continue every year to have growth by the millions. If you read a post I made earlier, Directv does not encourage roof mounting. They won't make a policy on it because they are leaving it up to installation companies whether they want to deal with the WC injury increased risk or not. Directv because of the rareness roof mounts or no service on a national scale(excluding unreasonables) compared to installed and active accounts and new ones and Directv's stand on it, unless locally it is a major problem, they don't consider it a major issue. I did alot of roof mounts from the ladder on the edge of the roof but it was very rare to have it to where I would have had to go off the ladder on the roof. I did plenty of pole mounts to where they could not be seen unless you were right there at them (I hid alot in flowerbeds behind bushes and there was no way for them to be seen) or in backyards where they could not be seen from the road or other property, ect... Hell, I did one in a restricted neighborhood one time and I hid the dishes in the back yard behind a row of bushes and the guy called me a year later asking me to do his mover connection job because he was moving and he said those dishes sat in that bush bed for a year and no one in the neighborhood board or neighbors ever knew about them. So, don't kid yourself into thinking some of your attitudes with installers or policies that people follow ect... is damaging Directv. It's not. For every roof mount they protect a tech or themselves from a damage claim from, hundreds or thousand or more installs are going in and up and running. And with Bruisters completion rate, they are in no danger of loosing their contract. You people it applies to just need to get a life and accept things for the way they are and the way things can be done within the relm of the installers control. Most techs will tirelessly try to satisfy customers and do what they want within policies and limitations like hide as best as they can for you but if it is not possible due to other reasons, accept it or don't get it, it's that simple.

[sNEIRBO]

. . . I don't know where you live . . . You people it applies to just need to get a life and accept things for the way they are and the way things can be done within the relm of the installers control. . .

I live in Metro Detroit in an "newer" sub-division - about 15 years old. In this area, the builders like to use a method I call "nuke and scrap". They clear the land of everything then start planting seeds and let the homes grow. You could probably throw a dish in any direction you wanted in my yard, and get a signal off of some satellite. There are NO line of sight issues in this neighborhood.

When the D* installer came to install my system 2 weeks ago, the first thing he said was "Why is that E* dish on the ground?" Then he asked if it was OK if he put the D* dish on the roof. Since that's where I wanted it, I said "Hell yes!" He was driving a D* Truck, and worked alone, in the rain I might add. He had no qualms about putting that HD dish on my roof, that's where he thought it belonged too. He could have put it right on the pole that E* installed for their dish if he wanted, but he didn't.

This morning while I walked my dog I did a little counting -
110 Houses total in my sub-division
75 house have some form of DBS
2 of 75 dishes are off roof
47 house have some form of HD dish
45 of 47 HD dishes are DirecTV, and are roof mounted
2 of the 47 HD dishes are DISH, and are pole mounted, off the roof

I didn't say, that roof mounting was required or needed. What I said was "Aesthetically, IMO, most people want that dish on their roof." I think from my limited observations this morning, at least in my neck of the woods, my hypothesis holds up.

And from my counting this morning, you can see that the majority of people in my sub have DirecTV HD service, versus DISH Net HD service. I don't think that's coincidental to 2 issues - 1) better HD package/pricing and 2) installation preference (roof vs pole).

I travel quite a bit - for both business and pleasure. I can honestly say, that the majority of dishes I see are mounted on roofs. I would go as far to say that at least 90% of dishes I have seen are mounted on houses. The other 10% always seem to be placed elsewhere due to line of sight issues.
My brother in Colorado has his mounted on a pole on the fringe of a tree line (LOS issue).
A house I drive by everyday has their dish mounted on their fence (again LOS issue with trees).
Another house I see almost everyday, has their D* dish mounted on the roof of their detached garage (again LOS issue with trees).
If there is an LOS issue, people understand and allow their dishes to be mounted off the roof.

It may be in Alabama, that the majority of installs are not on roofs. But here in Metro Detroit, in general - "Aesthetically, IMO, people want that dish on their roof."

[msmith198025]

I live in Metro Detroit in an "newer" sub-division - about 15 years old. In this area, the builders like to use a method I call "nuke and scrap". They clear the land of everything then start planting seeds and let the homes grow. You could probably throw a dish in any direction you wanted in my yard, and get a signal off of some satellite. There are NO line of sight issues in this neighborhood.

When the D* installer came to install my system 2 weeks ago, the first thing he said was "Why is that E* dish on the ground?" Then he asked if it was OK if he put the D* dish on the roof. Since that's where I wanted it, I said "Hell yes!" He was driving a D* Truck, and worked alone, in the rain I might add. He had no qualms about putting that HD dish on my roof, that's where he thought it belonged too. He could have put it right on the pole that E* installed for their dish if he wanted, but he didn't.

This morning while I walked my dog I did a little counting -
110 Houses total in my sub-division
75 house have some form of DBS
2 of 75 dishes are off roof
47 house have some form of HD dish
45 of 47 HD dishes are DirecTV, and are roof mounted
2 of the 47 HD dishes are DISH, and are pole mounted, off the roof

I didn't say, that roof mounting was required or needed. What I said was "Aesthetically, IMO, most people want that dish on their roof." I think from my limited observations this morning, at least in my neck of the woods, my hypothesis holds up.

And from my counting this morning, you can see that the majority of people in my sub have DirecTV HD service, versus DISH Net HD service. I don't think that's coincidental to 2 issues - 1) better HD package/pricing and 2) installation preference (roof vs pole).

I travel quite a bit - for both business and pleasure. I can honestly say, that the majority of dishes I see are mounted on roofs. I would go as far to say that at least 90% of dishes I have seen are mounted on houses. The other 10% always seem to be placed elsewhere due to line of sight issues.
My brother in Colorado has his mounted on a pole on the fringe of a tree line (LOS issue).
A house I drive by everyday has their dish mounted on their fence (again LOS issue with trees).
Another house I see almost everyday, has their D* dish mounted on the roof of their detached garage (again LOS issue with trees).
If there is an LOS issue, people understand and allow their dishes to be mounted off the roof.

It may be in Alabama, that the majority of installs are not on roofs. But here in Metro Detroit, in general - "Aesthetically, IMO, people want that dish on their roof."

Honestly in alabama and mississippi the majority of them are on the roof also. I have nothing but praise for Bruisters, they have done two D* installs for me and have been top notch. Mine are on poles because that where I wanted them(meaning i had to tell them to put them there). No neighbors for a ways so looks dont matter when it comes to the dish for me. Also have a E* superdish mounted right next to my slimline in the same fashion. Main reason for this is i can get to them easily if need be and its very very sturdy. Went through hurricanes Ivan and Katrina without have to repeak either of them. That being said, everyone that lives around me has theirs on the roof. Id go so far as to say 90 percent here too.

[TBoneit]

Well there need to get a better insurance company or get into a new line of work, most installs are on roofs, its the nature of the business..

We're sorry sir, we cant re-shingle your roof, we're not allowed to go up on the roof to do so. our insurance company doesnt cover roof work..

But sir, you're a roofing company!

We know, but it's out of our control.

all jobs have inherit risks, getting out of bed in the morning has its own risk.

Did you ever see how a safe roof replacment is done, Safety lines attached to the peak of the roof atached to safety harnesses, Possibly scaffolding too. The way many roofers do the job with no safety equipment and the workers just running around on the roof would make me worry if they fell. I'd be expecting to be included in the lawsuit for any injuries.

That said if you get a local independent installer he most likely has adequate insurance and will do whatever is required to do the job. You'll pay a fair fee, not a cheap inexpensive fee. I think 8 years ago I paid $200 for a custom install of the old single satellite dish. OTOH that mount is still in use and not leaking.

My dishes are on the roof. D* and E* and shoot over the roofline as I didn't want to see them from the front of the south facing house. The view from the rear is that they are almost invisible too. I have to go back into the corner of the yard to see them.

[BkwSoft]

My father is a contractor. He has fall protection equipment as you discribe for when they do roofing jobs however most guys choose not to use them. The saftey ropes them selves end up as more of a saftey hazard as they are always getting in the way. Not to mention how much they slow them down.