70 HBO bad pic but 509 ok (also discovery/uhd)

[newsposter]

Just got HR20 installed today (will post my experience with that later) and 70 hbo is now not a reliable feed. When it was all blocky, i turned to 509 and it was perfect. Same with discovery. 76 was bad but the regular channel was ok. So the remaps in the 70s gave me a 771 searching error.

Ok I know i can just delete the remapped channels but i had an issue with 74 uhd also being blocky. Obviously there is no other remap available.

signals are all above 90 on the 110 so what could be the issue with a remapped channel being unreliable? he was a senior tech and very nice so i'm sure i can call him back if need be.

What is so bizarre is i finally got the 119 in with the new location /dish and can enjoy those channels as well

Note: not that it matters but my 2HDtivos are still hooked up on the 3nb dish on the other side of the house and have always gotten 101 and 110 perfectly. Just not 119 ever. So him putting the 5lnb on the other side of the house was necessary for 103 he said, and by luck i got in the 119.

EDIT: please start on post 34 as far as my tables and readings go, I realized how I initially made them up wasn't too clear so cleaned them up and reposted looking much better on post 34

[litzdog911]

This sounds like a receiver/account authorization issue, not a signal problem. Both HBO channels are the SAME channel, just mapped to two different channel numbers. HBO-HD is beamed from 110-deg W, as is UHD.

[newsposter]

well part of my install tale of woe was that they didnt know they had to add the HD pak but after 5 different reps and 2 hours on the phone they got it all turned on.

the symptom of 70 is searching signal, not the 721 i had when i wasnt authorized. And just now again, i tuned to 76 and it wouldnt come in but 278 was fine.

UHD was unwatchable, looked like low signal and had 771 code..half the streaky pic there so i'm definitely authorized. But 91, 95, 96 signal on the 3 transponders. So how can i have a high signal on the 110 but not get in UHD and it constant searches for signal?

[litzdog911]

That's a puzzler. I wonder if they've started simulcasting these HD channels on both the 110-deg (MPEG2) and 103-deg (MPEG4) satellites?

[D*HR-20]

278 and 76 are not the same channel. 278 is Discovery Channel HD while 76 is HD Theater (used to be called Discovery HD Theater, but they dropped the Discovery part of the name to avoid confusion)

[newsposter]

That's a puzzler. I wonder if they've started simulcasting these HD channels on both the 110-deg (MPEG2) and 103-deg (MPEG4) satellites?

dont know but the 2nd level tech said she didnt have a list of what was on what bird. amazing eh?

[newsposter]

278 and 76 are not the same channel. 278 is Discovery Channel HD while 76 is HD Theater (used to be called Discovery HD Theater, but they dropped the Discovery part of the name to avoid confusion)

ty for the clarification.

I just tried some channels and 70 was ok, but 75 and 76 were not. so how in the world can that be? I didnt test signal but have no reason to believe it's anything but in the 90s.

[lwilli201]

You may try a menu reset. The mapping data could be corrupt.

[Xing]

well part of my install tale of woe was that they didnt know they had to add the HD pak but after 5 different reps and 2 hours on the phone they got it all turned on.

the symptom of 70 is searching signal, not the 721 i had when i wasnt authorized. And just now again, i tuned to 76 and it wouldnt come in but 278 was fine.

UHD was unwatchable, looked like low signal and had 771 code..half the streaky pic there so i'm definitely authorized. But 91, 95, 96 signal on the 3 transponders. So how can i have a high signal on the 110 but not get in UHD and it constant searches for signal?

What are your signals on the 119, 76 HD Theater is on the 119? Also if you move your new HR20 to a location connected to the 3 LNB does it get these channels fine or still a problem?

[newsposter]

You may try a menu reset. The mapping data could be corrupt.


is that the same as pressing the red button (it locked up on 74 one night)

[newsposter]

What are your signals on the 119, 76 HD Theater is on the 119? Also if you move your new HR20 to a location connected to the 3 LNB does it get these channels fine or still a problem?


I never thought of that...all 3 units are stacked so would be ez to do. But the 110 outage on tuner 2 is sporadic at best

i tried testing tuner 2 and the readings are bizarre (also when swapped rg6, things got weird..note i didnt change BBC, just swapped the wires behind them and didnt unplug BBC at the receiver.



AS means after swapping cables:

101
1: all over 90
1AS: all over 90

2: all over 90
2AS: all over 90

110

1: 96, 92, 96
1AS 96, 92, 96

2: 0, 0 47
2AS 0, 0, 60
2AS: 92, 89, 96 AFTER REBOOT
2 went back to original cabling and now is zero

119

1: 77, 71, 74, 0, 73, 79, 77, 41, 80, 0, 79
1AS: 77, 73, 72, 0, 81, 82, 79, 43, 77, 0, 80
1AS: 76, 74, 76, 40, 78, 82, 81, 42, 80, 82 AFTER REBOOT

2: 65, 68, 68, 0, 69, 74, 70, 0, 69, 0 , 76
2AS: 75, 69, 74, 0, 82, 77, 76, 0, 88, 0, 84
2AS: 79, 76, 77, 44, 82, 84, 82, 50, 80, 0, 83 AFTER REBOOT


99b

1: 100, 0, 100, 14, 81, 69
1AS: 100, 0, 100, 14, 81, 65
1AS: 100, 0, 100, 0, 78, 63 AFTER REBOOT

2: 100, 0, 0, 6, 82, 69
2AS: 100, 0, 0, 6, 83, 68
2AS: 0, 0, 100, 6, 78, 62 AFTER REBOOT
2: 100, 0, 100, 0, 80, 64 Swap BACK TO ORIGINAL TUNER

103a

1: 95, 94, 0, 99, 94, 92, 0
1AS: 95, 94, 0, 99, 94, 91, 0
1AS: 95, 95, 0, 99, 92, 95, 0 AFTER REBOOT

2: 95, 95, 0, 0, 0, 90
2AS: 0, 94, 0, 99, 94, 0
2AS: 95, 95, 0, 100, 92, 95, 0 AFTER REBOOT

103b

1: all over 90
1AS: all over 90

2: all over 90
2AS: all over 90

seems like 110 tuner 2 can be in the 90s or zero, depending on the minute in the day i check. However note that the 101, 119 and 103b are always consistent. 103a and 99b zeros may have been me making a mistake typing in the numbers..unsure.

But given the consistency of some of the satellites even on tuner 2, this cant be a tuner can it? I just dont want to get some refurb in place of it.

[Xing]

I never thought of that...all 3 units are stacked so would be ez to do. But the 110 outage on tuner 2 is sporadic at best

i tried testing tuner 2 and the readings are bizarre (also when swapped rg6, things got weird..note i didnt change BBC, just swapped the wires behind them and didnt unplug BBC at the receiver.



AS means after swapping cables:

101
1: all over 90
1AS: all over 90

2: all over 90
2AS: all over 90

110

1: 96, 92, 96
1AS 96, 92, 96

2: 0, 0 47
2AS 0, 0, 60
2AS: 92, 89, 96 AFTER REBOOT
2 went back to original cabling and now is zero

119

1: 77, 71, 74, 0, 73, 79, 77, 41, 80, 0, 79
1AS: 77, 73, 72, 0, 81, 82, 79, 43, 77, 0, 80
1AS: 76, 74, 76, 40, 78, 82, 81, 42, 80, 82 AFTER REBOOT

2: 65, 68, 68, 0, 69, 74, 70, 0, 69, 0 , 76
2AS: 75, 69, 74, 0, 82, 77, 76, 0, 88, 0, 84
2AS: 79, 76, 77, 44, 82, 84, 82, 50, 80, 0, 83 AFTER REBOOT


99b

1: 100, 0, 100, 14, 81, 69
1AS: 100, 0, 100, 14, 81, 65
1AS: 100, 0, 100, 0, 78, 63 AFTER REBOOT

2: 100, 0, 0, 6, 82, 69
2AS: 100, 0, 0, 6, 83, 68
2AS: 0, 0, 100, 6, 78, 62 AFTER REBOOT
2: 100, 0, 100, 0, 80, 64 Swap BACK TO ORIGINAL TUNER

103a

1: 95, 94, 0, 99, 94, 92, 0
1AS: 95, 94, 0, 99, 94, 91, 0
1AS: 95, 95, 0, 99, 92, 95, 0 AFTER REBOOT

2: 95, 95, 0, 0, 0, 90
2AS: 0, 94, 0, 99, 94, 0
2AS: 95, 95, 0, 100, 92, 95, 0 AFTER REBOOT

103b

1: all over 90
1AS: all over 90

2: all over 90
2AS: all over 90

seems like 110 tuner 2 can be in the 90s or zero, depending on the minute in the day i check. However note that the 101, 119 and 103b are always consistent. 103a and 99b zeros may have been me making a mistake typing in the numbers..unsure.

But given the consistency of some of the satellites even on tuner 2, this cant be a tuner can it? I just dont want to get some refurb in place of it.


Most likely its not the tuner its the cable, but thats not to say its not possible. Also I was mistaken HD Theater was switched to the 110 sat. Try swapping the cables in the tuners, if not already done, as well as removing the bbc and connecting the cable directly and see if that makes a difference. Also is this swap referring to swapping between 3 lnb and 5 lnb or tuners; and have you tried swapping between the two dishes and if so did it make a difference?
Also did they run new cabling for the HR20 and have you ever noticed tuner 1 low on 110? If not then there is probably a damaged cable in tuner 2 or the fittings need to be replaced.

[newsposter]

hr20 is on its new system..new wires, new dish.

I swapped cables by unscrewing from BBC so bbc stayed on same tuner.

I have not swapped with 3lnb dish.

tuner one has never been low on the 110. On any tests. Also again i wonder how the 101 119 103b can always be consistent if it's a bad tuner?

[newsposter]

old reading from weekend

110

1: 96, 92, 96
1AS 96, 92, 96

2: 0, 0 47
2AS 0, 0, 60
2AS: 92, 89, 96 AFTER REBOOT
2 went back to original cabling and now is zero

today i swapped cables including BBC this time (before didnt swap bbc) and got:

1:96 92 96
2: 77, 85 95

but when i first got home the 110 was out and my signal meter didnt even work, had to reboot. note what a dip i had to a 77 reading.

then took out BBC on ONLY tuner 2 and got

94 91 96

[Canis Lupus]

have you tried changing BBCs? doesn't quite explain probs on the other SATS, but still - those BBCs wreak havoc in al kinds of ways.

[newsposter]

i dont have extras...hopefully he will bring them saturday. to order from dTV now will probably take just as long

[newsposter]

further info, i tried the 110 signal on my 3lnb dish(which is on the other side of the house and in a worse position so bad it wont get the 119 at all) and HDTivo, . The 110 signal was worse than normal so maybe it's a tree somewhere in the distance BUT that wouldnt explain the difference and reason why tuner 2 on the hr20 is zero with the 5lnb sometimes right?

[Xing]

further info, i tried the 110 signal on my 3lnb dish(which is on the other side of the house and in a worse position so bad it wont get the 119 at all) and HDTivo, . The 110 signal was worse than normal so maybe it's a tree somewhere in the distance BUT that wouldnt explain the difference and reason why tuner 2 on the hr20 is zero with the 5lnb sometimes right?

No. I would say more than likely there is a problem with the cable running to tuner 2. Most likely a connector but could also be within the actual cable.
But the 119 and 110 require the same process until the multiswitch. It requires the reciever to put out a 22Khz tone on top of the voltage to get the signal.
Also i would try placing one of your HR10's in this location to see if it has the same problem at the location. If not it may be the HR20.

[newsposter]

i did swap cable/bbcs though and its' still happening only on tuner 2. I hate to get a refurb after just a week though. Maybe he can do the lnb.

i have not tried the 5lnb on the tivos. They are all stacked so would be ez but i'm hoping he just wants to do the lnb and let me test it out. It's sporadic and i dont think he will hang around until i get zero again.

oh i dont use a multiswitch at all

[newsposter]

new signal readings taken just now. The bottom 2 rows of each test were done today, the rest done last weekend

edit tech just left (oct 20) after installing the 2 more lines and zinwell that the last guy was supposed to do but had zero clue about my 110 and other issues and suggested i call and ask for a supervisor to come out. 2 pts for admitting he had no clue. And why dont they tell techs what transponders should be live?

AV = readings after tech left on 10/20 and he did repeak the dish for the heck of it

BOLDED are the issues I have. so what in the world is this?

101
1: all over 90
1AS: all over 90
1: all over 90
1: all over 90
AV: all over 90

2: all over 90
2AS: all over 90
2: all over 90
2: all over 90
AV all over 90

110

1: 96, 92, 96
1AS 96, 92, 96
1: 95, 91, 96
1: 95, 91, 96
AV 96, 95, 97


2: 0, 0 47
2AS 0, 0, 60
2AS: 92, 89, 96 AFTER REBOOT
2 went back to original cabling and now is zero
2: 0,0,51
2 74, 84, 95
AV 84, 79, 93 note lower readings vs tuner 1 AV

119

1: 77, 71, 74, 0, 73, 79, 77, 41, 80, 0, 79
1AS: 77, 73, 72, 0, 81, 82, 79, 43, 77, 0, 80
1AS: 76, 74, 76, 40, 78, 82, 81, 42, 80, 0, 82 AFTER REBOOT
1: 84, 73, 76, 0, 86, 86, 85, 44, 82, 0, 85
1: 83, 73, 76, 0, 85, 86, 85, 44, 82, 0, 85
AV 89, 79, 79, 44, 88, 88, 85, 54, 84, 0, 91

2: 65, 68, 68, 0, 69, 74, 70, 0, 69, 0 , 76
2AS: 75, 69, 74, 0, 82, 77, 76, 0, 88, 0, 84
2AS: 79, 76, 77, 44, 82, 84, 82, 50, 80, 0, 83 AFTER REBOOT
2: 80, 74, 77, 0, 85, 86, 86, 43, 82, 0, 85
2: 75, 74, 73, 0, 82, 84, 81, 0, 82, 0, 83
AV 79, 77, 80, 47, 89, 90, 89, 54, 89, 0, 89 note lower readings vs tuner 1 AV

99b

1: 100, 0, 100, 14, 81, 69
1AS: 100, 0, 100, 14, 81, 65
1AS: 100, 0, 100, 0, 78, 63 AFTER REBOOT
1: 100, 0, 99, 0, 78, 58
1: 100, 0, 99, 0, 79, 59
AV 100, 0, 100, 0, 85, 66

2: 100, 0, 0, 6, 82, 69
2AS: 100, 0, 0, 6, 83, 68
2AS: 0, 0, 100, 6, 78, 62 AFTER REBOOT
2: 100, 0, 100, 0, 80, 64 Swap BACK TO ORIGINAL TUNER
2: 100, 0, 100, 0, 79, 59
2: 100, 0, 99, 0, 0, 58
AV 100, 0, 100, 0, 84, 66


103a

1: 95, 94, 0, 99, 94, 92, 0
1AS: 95, 94, 0, 99, 94, 91, 0
1AS: 95, 95, 0, 99, 92, 95, 0 AFTER REBOOT
1: 0, 92, 0, 98, 92, 98, 0
1: 92, 92, 0, 94, 92, 89, 0
AV 95, 95, 0, 100, 95, 95, 0

2: 95, 95, 0, 0, 0, 90
2AS: 0, 94, 0, 99, 94, 0
2AS: 95, 95, 0, 100, 92, 95, 0 AFTER REBOOT
2: 92, 92, 0, 99, 92, 89
2: 93, 92, 0, 0, 92,88
AV 95, 96, 0, 100, 94, 95, 0

103b

1: all over 90
1AS: all over 90
AV all over 90

2: all over 90
2AS: all over 90
AV all over 90

[newsposter]

update: for now i'm getting in the 110 on tuner 2 with at least 70s but it stinks because tuner 1 is 90s always. Maybe his fine tuning of the dish did something

I have to run a test for the 99 and 103b soon to update those numbers but i recall in the past day I did have a zero on xponder 1 then a 100 on the same thing all within a minute on the 99

[K4SMX]

Somehow I missed this thread earlier. I've read all this about three times, and much as I know you don't want to hear it, it looks to me that there's a problem with tuner 2 and the 110 and 119 satellites. I'll take your word for it that you did also swap BBC's and cables simultaneously as you said, so it doesn't appear to be an LNB problem. I think you also said that although you didn't initially have a multi-switch, you do now, and the problem continues. [Edit: OK, I just saw your last night's post about why you have the m/s in the other thread]

As a final test, I would suggest you remove your BBC's altogether and re-run your tests on the 110 and 119 only, swapping just the cables. Also, you probably should hook up some other receiver directly to each of your new HR20 cables (again, no BBC's), one-by-one, just to make the signals on 110 and 119 look fine on the new HR20 cables to that dish.

Since it's so easy and cheap, there'd also be nothing wrong with getting an entirely new set of BBC's. It's always good to have a backup set of BBC's in any case, since there are reports of BBC's failing which once worked.

Any possibility of getting your installer to swap out that new HR20 for another new-in-box one? ($$$)

[newsposter]

over the next few days i will rewrite this posting of my readings and what i did. I was so irritated by the zeros on 110 that i just was going hog wild with tests. I now realize they need better labeling and dates and exactly what was what.

I will also test the new setup (just got the M/S last saturday) in a multitude of arrangements to 'rule things' out.

please stay tuned.

oh and yes, the 1st swap was bbc plus wire. I was too lazy to unscrew the bbc! but all that will be clear once i take the time to rewrite and update this thread.

unsure if installer would change out the box..perhaps once i got all my readings...but heck it would have to be a SR tech or manager as the other guy didnt even have a clue

[K4SMX]

I didn't have any trouble following your exposition, once I figured out the "keys." I think you can confine all your future reports to the 110 & 119 satellites. Do your tests w/out BBC's please. Carry on!

[Xing]

I have to agree with K4SMX that at this point we may be looking at a problem with tuner 2 on the HR20, but I will wait for the new test results. The technician will bring a new HR20 if it is put in the work order.
Also they are really required to get an HR20 before leaving the site if that is determined the problem, either by calling another tech in the area or having one delivered to the site from there wharehouse. They are really not supposed to call D* for a replacement. The problem is supposed to be completely resolved before leaving the site.

[newsposter]

I didn't have any trouble following your exposition, once I figured out the "keys." I think you can confine all your future reports to the 110 & 119 satellites. Do your tests w/out BBC's please. Carry on!

So i'm not assuming anything, what do you make of the anomalous readings of the 99 and 103a where some went to zero then back again? I only ask since you say to limit testing to 110 and 119 in the future and the 119 has actually been the most consistent (surprisingly).

[K4SMX]

I have determined here and others have reported as well that there is a glitch in the signal strength panel on the 103(b)'s whereby the s. s. display will occasionally populate with a "0" on some tp's, but that if you read the signal meter for that specific tp, the signal is fine. So I would check for that on those 99(b) and 103(a) reading before exploring this issue further.

Also, with that new multi-switch you have introduced another link in the chain. There have been problems reported with the WB68, so be prepared to wire around it with barrel connectors to have a pristine test of your HR20. I don't know from your posts whether those 99(b) and 103(a) "zero's" started appearing before or after your multi-switch installation. BOLO for additional possible problems here...

[newsposter]

ah ok, will do all strengths from the meter this time...fun process. Maybe if i get up before my wife tomorrow morning and run thru it.

oh and just the past day i had the test not work at all, had to reboot it. The meter didnt work though either.

[K4SMX]

oh and just the past day i had the test not work at all, had to reboot it. The meter didnt work though either.
If I'm not mistaken, you're not the only one that's happened to after trying the signal strength test. Yet another HR20 issue probably.....

When you say, "The meter didn't work though either," are you saying that on a 99(b) or 103(a) s. s. test where you got a "0", the tp Signal Meter for that tp also showed zero?

[K4SMX]

BTW, when you wire around that WB68, I think you probably should disconnect all four cables from the dish side of the WB68. Just keep track of which is which for re-connection after your 110 and 119 tests. (1,2,3, and 4)

[newsposter]

If I'm not mistaken, you're not the only one that's happened to after trying the signal strength test. Yet another HR20 issue probably.....

When you say, "The meter didn't work though either," are you saying that on a 99(b) or 103(a) s. s. test where you got a "0", the tp Signal Meter for that tp also showed zero?

Actually i meant that the grid signal meter had all dashes on the 101 and when i tried 110 it didnt work either, nor the 'line meter' so i just rebooted and didnt test anymore.

the 'grid readings' came back fine after reboot

[newsposter]

BTW, when you wire around that WB68, I think you probably should disconnect all four cables from the dish side of the WB68. Just keep track of which is which for re-connection after your 110 and 119 tests. (1,2,3, and 4)

actually my initial test will be connected as i didnt get out for barrels yet :)

[K4SMX]

actually my initial test will be connected as i didnt get out for barrels yet :)
As long as you have to go out, you might as well get part #278-213 from Radio Shack. They're better than the usual junk out there hanging on the walls, including the ones hanging on the wall at RS. They usually keep them in mini-drawers or back in the back somewhere.

Let's not forget while we're wrangling with alligators that the original project was to drain the swamp: the odds are you're going to need a new HR20. You only got yours on the 13th and it was bad from the git-go. You don't need D* sending you a refurb via FedEx. If I'm not mistaken, this is a new upgrade install. You need the installer to bring you a brand new one to your door.

And now that you're an expert on those signal strength measurements, he won't be leaving until you've set it up and thoroughly tested your issues. Hopefully he'll have more than one HR20 on the truck......

[newsposter]

10/13 initial setup was 5lnb with 2 wires right to the HR20. Then 10/20 I got a zinwell and all 3 stacked units are fed with it (6 lines from zinwell). Total run from dish to receivers is at most 30ft.

10/29: i still didnt get new readings for this test but wanted to at least start cleaning up my old readings so they are easier to follow with descriptions. I also found a few mistakes and noted the errors. BOLD items are what I believe to be issues. However, after reading through this thread, I'm learning this may/may not be a meter issue, not an actual strength issue.



101

1: all over 90 (initial reading 10/13)
1AS: all over 90 (disconnected cable along with BBC and swapped tuners)
1: all over 90 (then rebooted)
1: all over 90 (back to initial setup so swapped cable/bbc)
AV: all over 90 (10/20 tech realigned dish and added zinwell.
1: all over 90 (10/29 test thru zinwell)
1: all over 90 (11/3 swap cable along with BBC to different tuner, thru zinwell)

2: all over 90 (initial reading 10/13)
2AS: all over 90 (disconnected cable along with BBC and swapped tuners)
2: all over 90 (then rebooted)
2: all over 90 (back to initial setup so swapped cable/bbc)
AV all over 90 (10/20 tech realigned dish and added zinwell
2: 89, 80, 74, 78, 0, 68, 46, 86,
56, 73, 73, 93, 74, 100, 79, 100,
79, 100, 81, 91, 86, 100, 89, 100,
89, 96, 95, 58, 95, 100, 89, 100 (10/29 test thru zinwell)
2: all over 90 (11/3 swap cable along with BBC to different tuner, thru zinwell) but earlier in week was some around 50 or 60 and they shouldnt have been


110

1: 96, 92, 96 (initial reading 10/13)
1AS 96, 92, 96 (disconnected cable along with BBC and swapped tuners)
1AS: 95, 91, 96 (then rebooted)
1: 95, 91, 96 (back to initial setup so swapped cable/bbc)
AV 96, 95, 97 (10/20 tech realigned dish and added zinwell.
1: 99 95, 98 (10/29 thru zinwell and line meter, not grid)
1: 95, 95, 98 (11/3 swap cable along with BBC to different tuner, thru zinwell)

2: 0, 0 47 (initial reading 10/13)
2AS 0, 0, 60 (disconnected cable along with BBC and swapped tuners)
2AS: 92, 89, 96 (then rebooted)
2: 0, 0, 0 (back to initial setup so swapped cable/bbc)
2: 0,0,51 (quick test)
2 74, 84, 95 (quick test right before tech arrived)
AV 84, 79, 93 (10/20 tech realigned dish and added zinwell.
2: 92, 92, 97 (10/29 thru zinwell and line meter, not grid)
2: 97, 95, 98 (11/3 swap cable along with BBC to different tuner, thru zinwell)

119

1: 77, 71, 74, 0, 73, 79, 77, 41, 80, 0, 79 (initial reading 10/13)
1AS: 77, 73, 72, 0, 81, 82, 79, 43, 77, 0, 80 (disconnected cable along with BBC and swapped tuners)
1AS: 76, 74, 76, 40, 78, 82, 81, 42, 80, 0, 82 (then rebooted)
1: 84, 73, 76, 0, 86, 86, 85, 44, 82, 0, 85 (back to initial setup so swapped cable/bbc)
1: 83, 73, 76, 0, 85, 86, 85, 44, 82, 0, 85 (quick test right before tech arrived)
AV 89, 79, 79, 44, 88, 88, 85, 54, 84, 0, 91 (10/20 tech realigned dish and added zinwell.
1: 93, 82, 89, 42, 94, 95, 94, 60, 95, 0, 95 (10/29 thru zinwell per grid)
1: 90, 79, 85, 47, 95, 95, 94, 61, 91, 0, 94 (11/3 swap cable along with BBC to different tuner, thru zinwell)

2: 65, 68, 68, 0, 69, 74, 70, 0, 69, 0, 76 (initial reading 10/13)
2AS: 75, 69, 74, 0, 82, 77, 76, 0, 88, 0, 84 (disconnected cable along with BBC and swapped tuners)
2AS: 79, 76, 77, 44, 82, 84, 82, 50, 80, 0, 83 (then rebooted)
2: 80, 74, 77, 0, 85, 86, 86, 43, 82, 0, 85 (back to initial setup so swapped cable/bbc)
2: 75, 74, 73, 0, 82, 84, 81, 0, 82, 0, 83 (quick test right before tech arrived)
AV 79, 77, 80, 47, 89, 90, 89, 54, 89, 0, 89 (10/20 tech realigned dish and added zinwell.
2: 92, 81, 89, 47, 95, 95, 95, 60, 95, 0, 95 (10/29 thru zinwell per grid)
2: 85, 77, 85, 48, 92, 95, 94, 62, 90, 0, 93 (11/3 swap cable along with BBC to different tuner, thru zinwell)

99b

1: 100, 0, 100, 14, 81, 69 (initial reading 10/13)
1AS: 100, 0, 100, 14, 81, 65 (disconnected cable along with BBC and swapped tuners)
1AS: 100, 0, 100, 0, 78, 63 (then rebooted)
1: 100, 0, 99, 0, 78, 58 (back to initial setup so swapped cable/bbc)
1: 100, 0, 99, 0, 79, 59 (quick test right before tech arrived)
AV 100, 0, 100, 0, 85, 66 (10/20 tech realigned dish and added zinwell.
1: 100, 0, 100, 14, 87, 61 (10/29 thru zinwell per grid)
1: 0, 0, 100, 15, 86, 60 (11/3 swap cable along with BBC to different tuner, thru zinwell and grid)
1: 99, 0, 0, 0, 87 60 (11/3 swap cable along with BBC to different tuner, thru zinwell) thru meter

2: 100, 0, 0, 6, 82, 69 (initial reading 10/13)
2AS: 100, 0, 0, 6, 83, 68 (disconnected cable along with BBC and swapped tuners)
2AS: 0, 0, 100, 6, 78, 62 (then rebooted)
2: 100, 0, 100, 0, 80, 64 (back to initial setup so swapped cable/bbc)
2: 100, 0, 100, 0, 79, 59 (quick test)
2: 100, 0, 99, 0, 0, 58 (quick test right before tech arrived)
AV 100, 0, 100, 0, 84, 66 (10/20 tech realigned dish and added zinwell.
2: 100, 0, 100, 17, 86, 60 (10/29 thru zinwell per grid)
2: 99, 0, 100, 0, 87, 60 (11/3 swap cable along with BBC to different tuner, thru zinwell) thru meter
(is the last xponder even used since it's so low all the time?)


103a

1: 95, 94, 0, 99, 94, 92, 0 (initial reading 10/13)
1AS: 95, 94, 0, 99, 94, 91, 0 (disconnected cable along with BBC and swapped tuners)
1AS: 95, 95, 0, 99, 92, 95, 0 (then rebooted)
1: 0, 92, 0, 98, 92, 98, 0 (back to initial setup so swapped cable/bbc)
1: 92, 92, 0, 94, 92, 89, 0 (quick test right before tech arrived)
AV 95, 95, 0, 100, 95, 95, 0 (10/20 tech realigned dish and added zinwell.
1: 94, 95, 0, 100, 94, 92, 0 (10/29 thru zinwell per grid)
1: 0, 96, 0, 0, 91, 95, 0 (11/3 swap cable along with BBC to different tuner, thru zinwell and grid)
1: 95, 95, 0, 99, 92, 94, 0(11/3 swap cable along with BBC to different tuner, thru zinwell) thru meter

2: 95, 95, i misread-error (initial reading 10/13)
2AS: 0, 94, 0, 99, 94, my error (disconnected cable along with BBC and swapped tuners)
2AS: 95, 95, 0, 100, 92, 95, 0 (then rebooted)
2: 92, 92, 0, 99, 92, 89 (back to initial setup so swapped cable/bbc)
2: 93, 92, 0, 0, 92, 88, ? (quick test right before tech arrived)
AV 95, 96, 0, 100, 94, 95, 0 (10/20 tech realigned dish and added zinwell.
2: 0, 95, 0, 100, 93, 92, 0 (10/29 thru zinwell per grid)
2: 0, 0, 0, 100, 95, 95, 0 (10/29 thru signal meter)
2: 95, 95, 0, 99, 0, 93, 0 (11/3 swap cable along with BBC to different tuner, thru zinwell and grid)
2: 95, 95, 0, 99, 93, 95, 0 (11/3 swap cable along with BBC to different tuner, thru zinwell) thru meter

103b

1: all over 90 (initial reading 10/13)
1AS: all over 90 (disconnected cable along with BBC and swapped tuners)
AV all over 90 (10/20 tech realigned dish and added zinwell.
1: all over 90 (11/3 swap cable along with BBC to different tuner, thru zinwell and grid)

2: all over 90 (initial reading 10/13)
2AS: all over 90(disconnected cable along with BBC and swapped tuners)
AV all over 90 (10/20 tech realigned dish and added zinwell.
2: all over 90(11/3 swap cable along with BBC to different tuner, thru zinwell and grid)

[newsposter]

updated test in previous post

[newsposter]

99b and 103a take a while to register even on the line meter. Is it possible the sampling rate for the grid meter is too short and the test really is ok but that the grid doesnt let the sample 'take' because the interval is too short?

except one zero was on the line meter..darnnit. Though I had this licked

and my wife and i had a discussion. Unless we start missing shows (no idea what is on what xponder), we arent going to complain yet...reading about other people's issues with reboot and locking up, at least we dont have those issues :)

But i will post updated results maybe every week to see what's up here.

[K4SMX]

99b and 103a take a while to register even on the line meter. Is it possible the sampling rate for the grid meter is too short and the test really is ok but that the grid doesnt let the sample 'take' because the interval is too short?

except one zero was on the line meter..darnnit. Though I had this licked

and my wife and i had a discussion. Unless we start missing shows (no idea what is on what xponder), we arent going to complain yet...reading about other people's issues with reboot and locking up, at least we dont have those issues :)

But i will post updated results maybe every week to see what's up here.
Getting back to the main 110 problem you first reported, with your HR20-100 you should be able to change the channel sequentially among all of the following channels in any order with no difficulties, if everything is working properly:

CH 75 & 76..........(110/tp8)
CH 70, 71, & 78....(110/tp10)
CH 73 & 74..........(110/tp12)

(Additionally, for reference purposes, CH 72 & 79 are on 119/tp28)

[newsposter]

thing is since he's reaimed, 110 has had no issues but one time readings in the 70s. so i guess i have to say 110 is fixed. Or i'm lucky. And whenever i have gone to view any channels in the 70s, i have not gotten a 771 since realignment.

now it looks like 99b and 103 a issues with certain ones going to zero. But since i havent missed anything yet (dont even know what channels are on those xponders), I guess i have no complaint worth directv coming out for...yet

[K4SMX]

If you get a "0" in the grids for 99(b) or 103(a), switch over to the signal meter for that specific tp, give it a good bit of time, and see if it doesn't report a number eventually. Sounds like everything's working again after re-alignment.

[newsposter]

except the nov 3 test with meters were done with extended sampling intervals. :)

I should have noted that. I'd see the one tuner pipe up just fine and the other zero.

I guess i need to stop being a perfectionist and expect the meter or grid to work well every time. But the low 101 tuner 2 issue on a recent test also worried me greatly. And leads me to believe bad tuner. Except it didnt happen until he reaimed and ....around the circle we go again lol.

[newsposter]

i haven't tested this in a while so sat down to do it today. Everything was good except the following:

99b xponder 1 had zero on both tuners even using the meter (but since i've never missed a show that i am recording i guess i dont care)

I see a lot more zeros on 103a but i guess those are going to be used for other things and weren't even active for my old readings

so it appears all is mostly well here at last and that reaiming the dish was the problem.

edit..i shouldnt have spoken..i haven't actually watched the channels in the 70s a lot..went there and 72 is fine, 73 wont come in, nor will 74, 75 is ok, 76 is ok, 78 is ok 79 is ok

all 119 and 110 signals are ok though and there's no error on the screen and there is the same problem on both HDtivos too.

i checked 110 x12 and it's in the 90s

[newsposter]

i guess it's because i dont watch the channels much but today did turn to channels on the 110 and got 771...tuner 1 was fine..tuner 2 was in the 40s...i guess the reaim didnt fix this after all.

[K4SMX]

Dang, newsposter, you've got a little black cloud over your head! Is that on both the HR10 and the HR20? This is not an alignment problem.

[newsposter]

hdtivo is fine on channel 509 and hr20 is not....gotta be the tuner then in hr20 right?

[K4SMX]

I think you've already gone through switching your cables and switching your BBC's, and the problem stayed with tuner 2, so yes, that would seem the only other explanation for your problem. Time to get going with the DVD recorder and dump your HD.....

[newsposter]

if it's only the 110, i can deal with it, anything i miss on hbo will repeat and there are like what, 4 channels on the 110 anyway?

[K4SMX]

Seven!:

Getting back to the main 110 problem you first reported, with your HR20-100 you should be able to change the channel sequentially among all of the following channels in any order with no difficulties, if everything is working properly:

CH 75 & 76..........(110/tp8)
CH 70, 71, & 78....(110/tp10)
CH 73 & 74..........(110/tp12)

(Additionally, for reference purposes, CH 72 & 79 are on 119/tp28)
Since you've still got one good tuner on 110, you can always control which tuner you're using or about to use with the A > B > C > A method. It's a little tricky sometimes....

[newsposter]

Seven!:


Since you've still got one good tuner on 110, you can always control which tuner you're using or about to use with the A > B > C > A method. It's a little tricky sometimes....

it's happening again tonight

remind me of the abca method. And i do plan on trying to record the 110 only on HDtivo but if i would want to record it on the hr20, how could i record the same channel at the same time to ensure a good recording? Would it have to be a manual recording?

[K4SMX]

OK. Let's say you want to record something on a channel that's on the 110, and you want to make sure you're on Tuner 1.

Method 1: Do a Menu > Restart Recorder from the Setup menu, and when the lights go off, quickly disconnect the Sat 2 antenna cable, but not the BBC, so that when it re-boots, it'll re-boot in the single tuner mode. You can then put it in standby. When the previously programmed recording begins, it'll have to use Tuner 1. You'll have to reverse this procedure if you want to go back to using both tuners later.

Method 2: Temporarily disconnect the Tuner 2 coax from the BBC while tuned to any channel except the one you want to record. If the picture goes to gray screen, you know you're already on Tuner 2. If you still have a picture, you know you're on Tuner 1, so change to any channel except the one you want to record, so that you get the gray screen and SFSS on Tuner 2 (771). You can then reconnect the coax. If you then put the machine in standby, when the previously programmed recording begins, it will automatically change from Tuner 2 to Tuner 1 and record the program.

The A > B > C > A "trick" merely assures that if you land on a bad tuner when trying to watch channel "A," and you want to watch that channel "A" on the other tuner instead, you can force the receiver to use the opposite tuner by next going to channel "B," then to channel "C," and finally back to the original channel "A." You'll then be on the channel you want on the other tuner.

[tritch]

newsposter, I recently activated my HR20-100 and have been experiencing the same issue as you with the 110 satellite on tuner 2 only. The problem has been identical in every respect to your earlier posts.

You've covered a lot of troubleshooting so far which will save me some time in narrowing this problem down. Based on your earlier posts, I can logically conclude several things:

1) It can't be a dish aim problem because you would see low signal readings on the 110 satellite on tuner 1 as well. My tuner 1 is in the upper 90's on the 110. All other satellites are in the upper 90's on both tuners. This rules out an alignment problem.

2) It can't be a faulty LNB or cable problem because the problem would have followed over to tuner 1 after you swapped the cables.

Since I don't use a WB68, this leaves only 3 other causes:

1) Bad BBC's
2) Bad tuner 2
3) Software issue

I've done some research and found other threads on dbstalk and directv which describe the same issue. Here's the fix for some of them:

1) Replace both BBC's (not just one BBC).
or
2) Replace the HR20.
or
3) Some claim it's a software issue with 0x1be.

At this point, I'm going to change both BBC's to see if this works. It's hard to believe this could be the problem because of the separate feeds to both tuners. I suppose it's possible that one or both BBC's is inducing a "feedback" problem to the LNB's built-in multiswitch thereby desensitizing the tuner 2. It's not likely but who knows.

If this doesn't work, I will wait until the next software release to see if anything changes. As a last resort, I will replace the HR20. I'm hesitant to replace the HR20 because I use the OTA tuners and most of the replacements right now are HR21's.

I will let you know how things work out.

In the meantime, I'm using the method that K4SMX has suggested (A > B > C > A) so that I can avoid the problem with tuner 2 for those HD channels on satellite 110. If I knew that those HD channels were going to be converted to MPEG4 and moved to the 103 satellite in the near future, I probably wouldn't go to all this trouble because all the other HD channels work great.......

[K4SMX]

Did you ever try removing the BBC from tuner 2 altogether, since it's not required for 110 reception? That would definitely prove there's some problem with the BBC or with the HR20's tuner 2 interacting with BBC's in general.

[newsposter]

tritch could be any of the 3 things you mentioned, just glad I have 2 hdtivos and as long as my memory reminds me to only record the 110 on them i'm golden. But i pity the folk that only use the hr20 with no backup. (of course if sho/hbo move off the 110 that would be wonderful...though i know there are other stations on there but i forget what they are)

As you noted in my testing though, swapping every combo of bbc and cable has never moved the problem to tuner 1. Now i admit i dont use the hr20 that much except for the new hd channels so really can say for sure it's never happened. But for all the hours of testing i have done, it's never happened during that time.

[tritch]

Did you ever try removing the BBC from tuner 2 altogether, since it's not required for 110 reception? That would definitely prove there's some problem with the BBC or with the HR20's tuner 2 interacting with BBC's in general.

You are correct, this would be a good test. I thought about removing both BBC's from the cables and rechecking the 110 signal on tuner 2. The only reason that I haven't done that yet is because of limited access to the BBC's in my entertainment center. I just figured that I would wait until the new BBC's were delivered before going to the trouble to remove them.

newsposter, correct me if I'm wrong, but during your troubleshooting did you ever directly connect the cables to the HR20 with both BBC's removed?

[newsposter]

newsposter, correct me if I'm wrong, but during your troubleshooting did you ever directly connect the cables to the HR20 with both BBC's removed?

i could only find this

http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1218922&postcount=14

then took out BBC on ONLY tuner 2 and got

94 91 96

--------------
however the good and bad signal on tuner 2 was so sporadic i cannot say removing the bbc made it be a good signal, only that it was a good signal after removing it

how's that for doublespeak? Maybe i'll dig up the link for some BBCs and get 2 more for the fun of it. I assume they are still free for the asking.

[K4SMX]

Nobody's had much luck lately ordering BBC's on the internet, if they're still listed there, however telephoning tech support works every time.

[blc]

Guys, I'm in the same boat. Sat 110 issues on ts 8, 10, and 12 on Tuner 2 only. Done all the swaps of cable and bbc's. Even brought the other HR20 from the bedroom that has been working fine with one cable (i.e., only Tuner 1 active) and placed it in the living room. Same problem with Tuner 2 after short period of time. I completely believe that it is a software issue. Too many others with same problem occurring. I have searched other sites, including Dtv forum site, and issue appears on all forums. Sometimes it is HR20-700s, sometimes 100s, and even some of the other boxes. I have no clue. Hope someone can figure it out. As long as I only use one cable feed (only Tuner 1 active), then no problems. However, I sure would like to record while watching something else. By the way, my signals are also all in the 90's on all sats--except of course when Tuner 2 has its issues.

Edit: both boxes are on the 11/07/07 1be software

[K4SMX]

Same problem with Tuner 2 after short period of time. I completely believe that it is a software issue. Too many others with same problem occurring....
And what does your tuner 2 do on 110 when you completely remove both BBC's?

[blc]

And what does your tuner 2 do on 110 when you completely remove both BBC's?

I will let you know tomorrow. Sometimes it takes a few hours for the problem with tuner 2 to manifest.

[blc]

Pulled both bbc's and no problem with Tuner 2. However, I remembered that the problems on Tuner 2 would generally show up (when bbc's connected) after I first checked the 110 and 119 and then went to the 103(b). So maybe Tuner 2 is not recognizing the 110 signals (and also noticed ts 23 on 119 drops to 80ish) after going to the 103(b) signals (no basis for this other than pure guessing at this point).

Edit: scratch that idea about first having to go the 103(b), as I added the bbc's back in and turned the unit back on and was immediately missing a channel it was tuned to (a 110 channel) and signals were ts8=50, 10=0, 12=0 and 119 ts23=63.

[blc]

After an unplug and reboot, and switching cable and bbc between tuners, here is the result. I was right about keeping the signal meters on the 101, 110, or 119 and it not causing tuner 2 to have problems. I kept the signal meter charts up for about 10 minutes switching between tuner 1 and 2 on 101, 110, and 119. All signals remained in the 90's on the transponders that are necessary (a couple of non-used are lower but don't matter).

However, after then finally goint to the 103(b) signal meters, Tuner 1 did great but Tuner 2 had a drop on a few of the 103(b) signals of 2-8 points. Then when I switched back to 110 and 119, Tuner 2 was clearly having issues. The 119 dropped a few points on Tuner 2 and ts23 dropped down to 59 from 95 (and ts25 that is not used as far as I know went to 0). The 110 on tuner 2 dropped to 48, 61, and 52 from 95's earlier.

Thus, the issue clearly presents once the tuners are directed to the new mpeg4's on 103(b). As I have been able to repeat this scenario twice now. That is, no problems with signal meters staying on 101, 110, and 119 after a hard reset. But once the 103(b) signals are tested, Tuner 2 drops points on the 103b (still all above 80) and drops significantly on some of the 110 and a few 119 transponders.

It appears that Tuner 2 cannot recognized the signals or is having some type of interface issues after being tuned to the 103b.

[K4SMX]

Good testing. How many BBC's do you have, old or new, you can test? If that tuner 2 won't work properly with multiple different BBC's, that receiver's probably gonna have to go.

I say this because I have an HR21 that's quirky only on 110 on both tuners with the Rev. 3 BBC's that shipped with it, but especially on tuner 2, even though the BBC's work fine on an HR20. I finally found some Rev. 2 BBC's that work sort of OK. The 110 sig's drop from the mid-90's to the mid-80's, but that's better than the mid-40's and 50's of the Rev. 3's. So try all your BBC's on both tuners. It's a big PIA.

I can't explain it. These BBC's are troublesome. It seems its a combination of a quirky receiver and a quirky BBC. It's a darn good thing these BBC's are not integral to the unit. Perhaps these eccentricities can be eliminated with a SWM.

[tritch]

K4,

I replaced both BBC's with rev 3 and still no joy......in fact it's worse.

I've been reading your other posts about the tuner 2 issue on the 110 and I have to agree with you about the BBC's. A "quirky BBC with a quirky receiver" seems to be at the heart of the issue here. I saw where you had to go through 6 BBC's just to find the right combo that would work!! I tend to think the main culprit here is a poorly designed BBC more so than the receiver. The fact that the problem completely disappears when the BBC's are removed seems to prove the point.

At this point, I believe there are several options for those of us who have to deal with this issue:

1) Find the right combo of several different BBC's
2) Replace the receiver (one that's not quirky with the BBC's)
3) Install a SWM
4) Possibly install a polarity locker as some have suggested
5) Wait until they convert and move the 7 HD channels off the 110, then it doesn't matter anymore......

[K4SMX]

That's a pretty good analysis, except that I don't think a polarity locker will solve this problem, unless the cause of this issue is that the DC switching voltage capacity supplied by the receiver to tuner 2 can't handle the current draw of the BBC, the coax and connector DC resistance, the load of any non-powered multi-switch, and the load of the LNB all summed together. Removing the load of the LNB will obviously reduce the DC current flow in the circuit.

I don't recall anyone reporting that the installation of a polarity locker (or a powered multi-switch) cured this strange 110 tuner 2 issue. Particularly since it seems in some cases (but not all) to also involve having the tuner previously tuned to an mpeg4 channel, this issue appears more related to some as yet unspecified interaction between the software, the tuner, and the BBC. It also doesn't appear to effect multiple receivers on the same installation simultaneously.

Thanks for your observations and welcome to the forums!

[tritch]

unless the cause of this issue is that the DC switching voltage capacity supplied by the receiver to tuner 2 can't handle the current draw of the BBC, the coax and connector DC resistance, the load of any non-powered multi-switch, and the load of the LNB all summed together. Removing the load of the LNB will obviously reduce the DC current flow in the circuit..

I'm thinking this is the problem, a tuner that is oversensitive to the increased load of the BBC after switching to a Ka-lo signal. For some reason, the tuner or automatic gain control circuit in receiver is not recovering the signal after switching back to a Ku signal. A poorly designed tuner circuit in the receiver and/or software issue can not be ruled out, but given that the problem is not happening across the majority of receivers in use seems to point towards just a few bad apples in the mix.

The Sonora polarity locker (or amplifier) seems to have cured the problem for several people. I agree, it's not the "polarity lock" that's fixing the issue, it's the "amplification" the unit is providing, thereby relieving the receiver of the increased load of the BBC when upconverting the Ka-lo signals.

I feel a SWM installation would be the cure all. It removes the BBC's and provides amplification. I'm not aware of anyone having this issue after a SWM install......

[K4SMX]

If I understand correctly the way the Sonora HRPID1422 power inserter (http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=HRPID1422) works, it doesn't really "amplify" anything. It merely provides a separate source of the 4 different voltage/tone combinations required by the multi-switch in the LNB, thereby eliminating the current draw of the LNB and its internal multi-switch on the receiver's power supply.

The "locking" comes from the fact that each of the 4 outputs of the LNB's internal multi-switch is permanently set to one of the 4 required combinations by a DC power source that is more than adequate for the task. Then the 4 Sonora outputs are sent on to the labeled inputs on the dish side of the WB68 multi-switch, which is an integral part of the whole shebang.