When "Time Shifting" becomes "Season Shifting"

[phrelin]

Recorders have been a significant factor in the satellite TV community for several years now. So it seems we are the folks who are likely to start trends - mine is "season shifting."

For four years we've had two Dish Network DVRs and, because of where we are located, East and West Coast feeds of the networks. Recently we added HD which gives us a total of four DVRs, and from two of those we are able to archive to a very large hard drive (which means we can drop our distant feeds keeping the "local" stations). With DirectTV adding eSata to their boxes, satellite users are going to have incredible flexibility.

What we've been doing for four years is recording some programs which we store and watch when reruns start and in the early Summer before the new, mostly cable Summer Season starts.

I'm sure we weren't the only household to do this. As DVR's proliferate more folks will do so. I'm having trouble seeing the future implications for this. Exactly how would this "create-your-own-TV-seasons" pattern be reflected in the Ratings and what will it mean for the networks and advertisers? Will this technology be regarded as a threat to advertisement-based TV?

[Sirshagg]

Ths is one of the things I considered when I recently decided to add a 1tb drive to each of my primary HR20's.

[DonCorleone]

Let's remember that DVR's aren't much different from VCR's (other than the obvious picture quality). But my point is that a much higher percentage of people have always had (and now have) VCR's vs. DVR's. So what you're describing is not a new phenomenon.

[phrelin]

Let's remember that DVR's aren't much different from VCR's (other than the obvious picture quality). But my point is that a much higher percentage of people have always had (and now have) VCR's vs. DVR's. So what you're describing is not a new phenomenon.

Being geezers who in fact did record shows to watch later even back when the battle was on between the VHS and Beta formats, we agree that many did "time shift" including us. But the VCR is not the DVR and "season shifting" would have required alot of effort and storage space with VHS. Even after the ability to trigger VCR recording using the infrared timer became common, you still had to put a tape in and really could only record 4 hours on a tape unless you really, really didn't care about quality.

The Dish and DirectTV DVRs (and TiVo) only require you to go through the schedule and push a button or two. And todays external hard drive takes up the shelf space of two VHS tapes but can store the equivalent of well over 100 VHS tapes of mixed SD and HD programming which you can organize and play back without getting off your "home theater seat" (a couch in our case).

Admittedly, the idea of "season shifting" will take years to catch on and likely DVR devices will be found in use in no more than 60% of cable and satellite customers homes, but "time shifting" is signficant enough this early on to require a change in Nielson reporting. When those who produce the programs figure out that "time shifting", video on demand, DVD season releases, and "season shifting" mean more audience appreciating their art, "over the air" TV Networks may face significant market transitions beyond what they are experiencing now.

[Rich]

Recorders have been a significant factor in the satellite TV community for several years now. So it seems we are the folks who are likely to start trends - mine is "season shifting."

For four years we've had two Dish Network DVRs and, because of where we are located, East and West Coast feeds of the networks. Recently we added HD which gives us a total of four DVRs, and from two of those we are able to archive to a very large hard drive (which means we can drop our distant feeds keeping the "local" stations). With DirectTV adding eSata to their boxes, satellite users are going to have incredible flexibility.

What we've been doing for four years is recording some programs which we store and watch when reruns start and in the early Summer before the new, mostly cable Summer Season starts.

I'm sure we weren't the only household to do this. As DVR's proliferate more folks will do so. I'm having trouble seeing the future implications for this. Exactly how would this "create-your-own-TV-seasons" pattern be reflected in the Ratings and what will it mean for the networks and advertisers? Will this technology be regarded as a threat to advertisement-based TV?

Started doing whole seasons with the advent of affordable VCRs and have continued to do so with DVRs. My only regret is that I waited for years for DVD recorders to become reasonably priced and now see no reason to own one. Feel like I missed out on a toy. Still can't think of a reason to own one.

[Rich]

Being geezers who in fact did record shows to watch later even back when the battle was on between the VHS and Beta formats, we agree that many did "time shift" including us. But the VCR is not the DVR and "season shifting" would have required alot of effort and storage space with VHS. Even after the ability to trigger VCR recording using the infrared timer became common, you still had to put a tape in and really could only record 4 hours on a tape unless you really, really didn't care about quality.

The Dish and DirectTV DVRs (and TiVo) only require you to go through the schedule and push a button or two. And todays external hard drive takes up the shelf space of two VHS tapes but can store the equivalent of well over 100 VHS tapes of mixed SD and HD programming which you can organize and play back without getting off your "home theater seat" (a couch in our case).

Admittedly, the idea of "season shifting" will take years to catch on and likely DVR devices will be found in use in no more than 60% of cable and satellite customers homes, but "time shifting" is signficant enough this early on to require a change in Nielson reporting. When those who produce the programs figure out that "time shifting", video on demand, DVD season releases, and "season shifting" mean more audience appreciating their art, "over the air" TV Networks may face significant market transitions beyond what they are experiencing now.

I used to have 11 VCRs and over 400 blank tapes as early as '90 and have been recording whole seasons for even longer than that. I did have to keep a logbook of what was on each numbered cassette, but I did whole seasons and it wasn't a hassle. I did have to spend a half hour each day programming VCRs and receivers, but it was well worth the time. I just gave a huge bin of tapes away and took another of equal size to the dump.

What I like about the DVRs is that they require no other medium but the DVR to record and save programs. No discs to buy, no tapes, etc.

I really consider the DVR the most significant device to appear since the TV. And I do love TV.

[phrelin]

I used to have 11 VCRs and over 400 blank tapes as early as '90 and have been recording whole seasons for even longer than that. I did have to keep a logbook of what was on each numbered cassette, but I did whole seasons and it wasn't a hassle. I did have to spend a half hour each day programming VCRs and receivers, but it was well worth the time. I just gave a huge bin of tapes away and took another of equal size to the dump.

What I like about the DVRs is that they require no other medium but the DVR to record and save programs. No discs to buy, no tapes, etc.

I really consider the DVR the most significant device to appear since the TV. And I do love TV

Started doing whole seasons with the advent of affordable VCRs and have continued to do so with DVRs. My only regret is that I waited for years for DVD recorders to become reasonably priced and now see no reason to own one. Feel like I missed out on a toy. Still can't think of a reason to own one.

You sound like you were more dedicated than we were back when, but we still have a whole bookcase of VHS recordings I haven't found time to convert to DVD.

Don't feel bad about the DVD recorder. We have a good Panasonic and it is fine, but the audio quality was comparable to VHS, not what we got from Dish. The video was better than VHS, but not that much and except for storage room the medium is not that great. Now if in a few years we actually get an affordable HD DVD recorder that keeps the 5.1 or better sound it might be worth moving archived movies off of the external hard drive because of the proprietary nature of our Dish system.

[Rich]

You sound like you were more dedicated than we were back when, but we still have a whole bookcase of VHS recordings I haven't found time to convert to DVD.

Don't feel bad about the DVD recorder. We have a good Panasonic and it is fine, but the audio quality was comparable to VHS, not what we got from Dish. The video was better than VHS, but not that much and except for storage room the medium is not that great. Now if in a few years we actually get an affordable HD DVD recorder that keeps the 5.1 or better sound it might be worth moving archived movies off of the external hard drive because of the proprietary nature of our Dish system.

Have you tried a Sony upscaling DVD player? I can't tell the difference between the PQ from the upscaler and the HR20. $99.

I can afford the Sony Blue Ray recorder right now, but to do what with? Cheaper to fill up a large eSATA with movies than to buy the recorder and blank DVDs, no? And in a couple years, we'll all be moving on to another better medium to record on and throwing useless DVDs away. Just like the bins of blank video cassettes I gave away and threw away. I paid over $1000 (probably closer to $2000) for those tapes and they were absolutely useless. You know it will happen to DVDs.

My wife saved my son's Disney videos and other kids type videos thinking they would be worth something someday. Maybe, but I doubt it.

[Rich]

You sound like you were more dedicated than we were back when,

It was something I had waited for all my life. I played a lot of softball on a lot of teams and was active in volleyball and other after work sports that usually ran thru primetime. VCRs solved the primetime problem then, and then I discovered DVRs about 6 years ago and this is what I dreamed of way back when.

I don't know how old you are, but I can remember the "old folks" sitting around the huge radio in the "parlor" watching the radio every night. Kinda spooky.

I am so happy with the way things have turned out. And I gotta feeling it's only going to get better.

[Wisegoat]

I used to have 11 VCRs and over 400 blank tapes as early as '90 and have been recording whole seasons for even longer than that. I did have to keep a logbook of what was on each numbered cassette, but I did whole seasons and it wasn't a hassle. I did have to spend a half hour each day programming VCRs and receivers, but it was well worth the time. I just gave a huge bin of tapes away and took another of equal size to the dump.

What I like about the DVRs is that they require no other medium but the DVR to record and save programs. No discs to buy, no tapes, etc.

I really consider the DVR the most significant device to appear since the TV. And I do love TV.

I was the exact same way. Log books and everything. I only had 3 VCR's, however.

I was one of the first 2000 TiVo subscribers and that thing changed my life. No more tapes and timers and cable boxes that didn't change channels. I could record more than a few things and keep them organized.

Thinking about upgrading storage to do the same thing now. I have not watched any Heroes yet and Lost will be coming back soon. Too many new shows on the new HD channels and not enough time.

At least the Lakers will probably suck this year and I won't spend so much time watching them. That will give me time to catch up.

[Tom Robertson]

At my peak, I had 3 VCRs, but only 2 that really worked well. A friend mentioned the MOXI, then got a TiVO when MOXI went with selling thru the cable companies. Sounded cool, but $11/month? Not for me.

Then the HDVR2 came out (had looked that UTV but heard it was dying), got one and very soon am now up to 9 active DVRs and I've lost track of how many no longer active but still should work DVRs. :)

Season Shifting hasn't caught on for us. But late term marathons of shows we thought we weren't interested in then became huge fans has happened. Most recently The Closer.

Cheers,
Tom

[Rich]

UTV was quite good for it's time. And if I remember correctly, you could actually shut them off. Not positive, but I think you could. TiVo was different and stable. This last year has been a nightmare, between the problems with the HR20s and the TiVos with software V6.3e...

What I've found over the years is that every show deserves a chance. I watched the first ten minutes of Cavemen, looked at my wife and erased it and the season passes. Seinfeld was really bad at first, but look at how that turned out.

FX has a lot of good shows, USA has some. These are all ensemble shows, like "Friends", and you have to watch several shows before you get caught up in it. I ignored the "Shield" when it first came out and bought the first season on DVD just to get caught up after reading all the good reviews. "Rescue Me" is one of the best shows on TV and "Dirt" on, I think, Lifetime was great.

So many shows, so little time.

I've got 11 DVRs running right now and am backing up HR20s with HR20s and TiVos. This is still easier than keeping track of 11 VCRs and hundreds of tapes.

At my peak, I had 3 VCRs, but only 2 that really worked well. A friend mentioned the MOXI, then got a TiVO when MOXI went with selling thru the cable companies. Sounded cool, but $11/month? Not for me.

Then the HDVR2 came out (had looked that UTV but heard it was dying), got one and very soon am now up to 9 active DVRs and I've lost track of how many no longer active but still should work DVRs. :)

Season Shifting hasn't caught on for us. But late term marathons of shows we thought we weren't interested in then became huge fans has happened. Most recently The Closer.

Cheers,
Tom