Help- Splitters affecting Signal Strength on 103???

[muddywaters123]

(I know it's long but please help me if you can)
Is it possible that using splitters could vastly affect the picture quality and signal strength? The installer used splitters right after the satellite. (An accurate description of the setup up is located at the bottom of the post) Here’s a quick detail of the setup: it goes Satellite (to) splitters (to) 2 multiswitches. Here’s another description- the 4 cables coming from the Slimline Dish are connected to 4 splitters than connected to two Multiswitches.
The Directv tech support said this could be a problem. She said the splitters are making it Narrow-Band. The satellite is wide-band and should be connected to my Wide-band multiswitches. There shouldn't be anything (splitters) in between them. It should be wideband to wideband (Satellite to multi-switch) not wideband to narrowband to wideband (satellite to splitter to multi-switch)

The installer tried to daisy chain the two mutliswitches without any splitters
but the International channels were missing on the second multiswitch. So that's why the installer splitted the cables from the beginning.

My 103-signal strength is really low. It’s something like 78, 27, 27, and 0. Directv believes this because of the splitters at the beginning of the setup (going from wideband to narrowband to wideband).

So how can I set it up without using splitters? Remember using a daisy chain may not work because my international channels are not showing up on the receivers connected to second multiplex.
Will I have to ask Directv for an additional Slimline and International dish? Have one Slimline and International Dish connected to one multiswitch and have the other Slimline and international Dish connected to the other multiswitch? Would that work and what would directv charge me for that?

Once again here’s a more accurate description of the setup.
6 receivers (4 Hr20-700s, 1 hr10-250 and hr15) I'm using 11 tuners.
Two Multi-switches (6x8 ZineWell Wide Band)
The 4 cables coming from the Slimline are connected to 4 splitters than connected to the Multi-switches. The International dish's cable is also split and is connected to the multi-switches. Please help and thanks for any suggestions

[litzdog911]

You should be fine with those splitters feeding two multiswitches. Here's one way to test ....

Temporarily bypass the splitter/multiswitch feeding one of your HD Receivers/DVRs. In other words, connect that satellite feed directly to one of your HD Receivers/DVRs. Check the signal readings. If they're still low, then you know the dish needs alignment.

[RobertE]

As litz said, it could be an alignemnt issue.

It could also be a marginal/bad splitter as well. If that spiltter is not spec'ed for the full range, it could be killing your signal.

The ideal solution would be to replace the two 6x8s with a single 6x16.

Cascading the 6x8s won't work due to the internal dish signaling.

[veryoldschool]

Cascading the 6x8s won't work due to the internal dish signaling.
:confused: this has been done several times without problems. :confused:
Carl6 is one that has and uses ports 1-4 off the first to feed the second.

[muddywaters123]

Yup i know the single 6 x 16 switch would be perfect but Directv doesn't supply those (for free that is) and I heard it's pretty pricey. So what's with the whole wideband to narrow band issue? Will using a splitter downgrade the wideband to narrowband? Is there any merit to that?

[RobertE]

:confused: this has been done several times without problems. :confused:
Carl6 is one that has and uses ports 1-4 off the first to feed the second.

My bad. Ment to say won't work due to the international dish signaling.

[veryoldschool]

Yup i know the single 6 x 16 switch would be perfect but Directv doesn't supply those (for free that is) and I heard it's pretty pricey. So what's with the whole wideband to narrow band issue? Will using a splitter downgrade the wideband to narrowband? Is there any merit to that?
You need to use splitters that are at least 200 MHz to 2200 MHz for the "wideband". Some "SAT" splitters are 950 MHz to 2150 MHz which is fine for everything BUT the new Ka channels [new HD].

[muddywaters123]

And why doesn't daisy chaining work my international signal? The receviers connected to the second multswitch are unable to receive the international channels?

[veryoldschool]

My bad. Ment to say won't work due to the international dish signaling.
The second multi-switch will work [but not the first] for those. [Duh]. :)

[muddywaters123]

Spliiters are 5 to 2050 . Where an I get the 200 to 2200. Is is common enough to pick up a regular electronic store

[muddywaters123]

So is the "daisy chain" completely out of the of question? Can I use the daisy chain method and just split my international signal to both multi-switches. Use ports 1-4 to feed to second the switch and split my inter. sig. to both switches. Will that work?

[veryoldschool]

Spliiters are 5 to 2050 . Where an I get the 200 to 2200. Is is common enough to pick up a regular electronic store
Check those again as you are very close to what you need 5-2150.
I think if it really is 5-2050, then it was for a dishnetwork system and is "just" short of the D* needs [by 100 MHz],
It sounds like you could split your international feed to each multi-switch and then cascade one multi-switch off the other and have 12 outputs working for you.

[texasbrit]

:confused: this has been done several times without problems. :confused:
Carl6 is one that has and uses ports 1-4 off the first to feed the second.

I think you will find that Carl6 was cascading from the Zinwell 6x8 to a POWERED multiswitch (the Terk WB68) for older receivers that did not need the new satellites. I had the same setup. I think we both have SWMs now.
The manufacturer does not recommend cascading two WB68s because of issues getting power to the LNBs and also losing the satellite signalling system on long runs. Driving them in parallel using splitters is fine.

The splitters have to power-pass BOTH legs otherwise it will not work, and the two outputs from the splitters have to go into matched inputs on the two multiswitches.

[veryoldschool]

I think you will find that Carl6 was cascading from the Zinwell 6x8 to a POWERED multiswitch (the Terk WB68) for older receivers that did not need the new satellites. I had the same setup. I think we both have SWMs now.
The manufacturer does not recommend cascading two WB68s because of issues getting power to the LNBs and also losing the satellite signalling system on long runs. Driving them in parallel using splitters is fine.

The splitters have to power-pass BOTH legs otherwise it will not work, and the two outputs from the splitters have to go into matched inputs on the two multiswitches.
OK but I do know that two Zinwells have been cascaded off each other and worked.
Long cable runs may not work [well].

[muddywaters123]

they're 5-2050 holland hfs-2p.

[muddywaters123]

how long is long I'm going about 70ish feet

[muddywaters123]

Driving them in parallel using splitters is fine.

The splitters have to power-pass BOTH legs otherwise it will not work, and the two outputs from the splitters have to go into matched inputs on the two multiswitches.
"Power-pass Both Legs" Could you elaborate just a little bit. sorry but I'm not sure what you mean.

[veryoldschool]

how long is long I'm going about 70ish feet
"I'd say" you're fine and go for it.
I don't know much about the international dish but would guess it's in the 950-1650 MHz range [as it needs to work with the older boxes].

[muddywaters123]

so where can i get the right splitters if I need to go that route

[veryoldschool]

so where can i get the right splitters if I need to go that route
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=skywalker+splitters

[muddywaters123]

thanks
I'm going to try to cascade it on monday. I tried it earlier but I got the searching for Satellite signal (721) on a few receivers but I'll try again. If that doesn't work I'll do try the spiltters and the realignment. Anything above 70 on sat 103 is what I'm aiming for right? 20, 27... isn't good right?

[Tom Robertson]

One source I've found: http://sadoun.com/Sat/Products/Perfect/BZT2WayALL_Satellite-Splitter.htm Sadoun has a few other models as well.

Cheers,
Tom

[Tom Robertson]

thanks
I'm going to try to cascade it on monday. I tried it earlier but I got the searching for Satellite signal (721) on a few receivers but I'll try again. If that doesn't work I'll do try the spiltters and the realignment. Anything above 70 on sat 103 is what I'm aiming for right? 20, 27... isn't good right?

20-27 definitely ain't good! :)

I'd like to see high 80s to 90s if possible, but I bet that will require a realignment.

Cheers,
Tom

[veryoldschool]

Anything above 70 on sat 103 is what I'm aiming for right? 20, 27... isn't good right?
"Anything" above 90 would be my "right".

[veryoldschool]

Tom Robertson
OK, you want to take this over... fine.... :lol: :lol: :lol:

[muddywaters123]

yeah where did tom come from. He came out of nowhere. You know my 103-b is fine buy my 103-a is the one in the 20's.
So what is SWM short for? I tried googling that multiswitch but I got no luck.
Once again thanks for all your guys help, thanks for helping a noobie, thanks veryoldschool and tom the ninja for coming out of the shadows

[RobertE]

yeah where did tom come from. He came out of nowhere. You know my 103-b is fine buy my 103-a is the one in the 20's.
So what is SWM short for? I tried googling that multiswitch but I got no luck.
Once again thanks for all your guys help, thanks for helping a noobie, thanks veryoldschool and tom the ninja for coming out of the shadows


Whoa. Time out on the field.

You say 103b is fine but its 103a thats all over the place?

103b has the new national HD channels, where the 103a is spot beam locals.

Are you actually having any reception issues?

Can you please post your signal levels for all sats?

[veryoldschool]

And another wild card comes out.
muddywaters123
So your 103 "issue" is with the local HD spot beams and not the national HD channels?
If they aren't pointing at you then they will be low and your local HD channels are coming from the 99 SAT.
Meaning you don't have a problem unless you aren't getting channels that you should.

SWM = single wire multi-switch, where you feed the four [or five] SAT feeds and have two outputs that you can then split to the H/HR-20 receivers and replace the dual run coax to each.

[muddywaters123]

Can you please post your signal levels for all sats?

Satellite 101 (32 total)
1-8 93 94 93 0 92 96 88 96
9-16 91 93 92 0 94 98 90 97
17-24 86 100 89 0 94 96 94 98
25-32 94 0 91 100 95 98 91 97

Satellite 110 (3 total)
1-8 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 96
9-16 N/A 95 N/A 95 N/A N/A N/A N/A
17-24 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
25-32 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A

119 11 total
1-8 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
8-16 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A
17-24 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 87 51 88
25-32 97 89 92 85 51 90 83 92

99 b 6 total
1-8 25 47 84 48 79 0 n/a n/a
8-17 all n/a
17-24 all n/a
25-32 all n/a

103 (a) 7 total
1-8 98 34 0 85 96 44 N/A N/A
9-16 ALL N/A
17- 24 0 rest N/a
25-32 ALL N/A

103 (b) 16 total
1-8 80 73 79 68 76 69 76 65
9-16 77 71 77 64 79 69 n/a n/a
17-24 83 n/a n/a n/a n/a 31 n/a n/a
25-32 all n/a

Are these numbers fine?
sorry about the latest confusion.
I live in southern California and get Los Angeles locals if that makes a difference.

[K4SMX]

Satellite 101 (32 total)....

######

.....Are these numbers fine?
sorry about the latest confusion.
I live in southern California and get Los Angeles locals if that makes a difference.
I guess everyone's either watching or recovering from football....

A couple of observations:

Your LA locals are on 103(a). You have several in the mid-90's, and the others you can disregard, as well as all of the 99(b)'s.

Your 103(b)'s are slightly low. This may not be an alignment problem, if you happen to have an LNB that's weak on the 103(b). Only a re-alignment tweak on the 103(b)'s will reveal the answer, but these could definitely be improved.

I am not familiar with west coast 119 readings, but on the east coast it's common to get a number of 119 tp's at 100. This may indicate the tilt is not set right, or it may not, depending on what others get out west. (Disregard the 119 tp's that are obviously low.)

A properly functioning and well-aligned dish should get mid to high 80's and 90's on all relevant tp's on all relevant satellites.

[RobertE]

Satellite 101 (32 total)

103 (a) 7 total
1-8 98 34 0 85 96 44 N/A N/A
9-16 ALL N/A
17- 24 0 rest N/a
25-32 ALL N/A

103 (b) 16 total
1-8 80 73 79 68 76 69 76 65
9-16 77 71 77 64 79 69 n/a n/a
17-24 83 n/a n/a n/a n/a 31 n/a n/a
25-32 all n/a

Are these numbers fine?
sorry about the latest confusion.
I live in southern California and get Los Angeles locals if that makes a difference.


These don't look too bad. But they may be improved with some minor fine tuning. Looks like its close but not quite spot on.

[muddywaters123]

quick update
Directv tech came over today and adjusted the dish. Sorry about the whole 103a and 103b confusion. All The signal strength on 103b is now in the late 80's with a couple in the mid 90's. The signal level was in low 70's but now is at 96%. Immediately I noticed a difference. The picture quality has tremendously improved. I haven't noticed any pixelation and so far no drop/frozen picture. The clarity is great. I'm just waiting for my splitters to arrive in the mail so I can upgrade those soon. Once again thanks for everyone's help. The picture looks great and overall I'm pretty satisfied.