Vote for new features for the 721!

[Scott Greczkowski]

Help shape the future the future of the 721! The 721 Team at Echostar is giving DBSTalk.COM users the chance for users to vote for what features they would like to see in the next major revision of the 721 software!

The top two voted features will be included in the next major revision of the software!

Below is a listing of the features and a description of each feature. You are only allowed one vote, and we will be monitoring voting to insure that no one is stuffing the ballot box.

Weather application:
Application like OpenTV (interactive product) weather application. The application would allow user to set up a list of favorite US cites. The application would allow the user to look at a five (5) day forecast for a selected city. The application would also allow the user to look at up to the hours weather information for a selected city.

Triple timer conflict resolution screen
When setting up a third conflicting PVR timer a screen would be displayed which graphically shows the conflict. The screen would look like a small version of the guide but would only include events which are part of the current conflict. Using the graphical EPG like conflict screen would allow the user easily see where the conflicting timers overlap.

Along with this feature would be added the ability to skip over a single timer occurrence as a way of resolving a timer conflict.

New record option
Feature would be the option to the record a current event capability. So, the user would have the option to record to the end of the event, manual user stop, create a timer or automatically record the entire event. This last option would only be available if the entire event can be found in the two (2) hour AV buffer. Option would save the user from having to rewind to the beginning of the event, then press record, then fast forward back to the place you were watching in the event.

Custom Theme
Feature would be the ability to set up custom theme categories with in the PVR theme screen. The custom theme screens would allow the user to set up custom PVR catalogs like the main PVR recorded events screen except that it would contain only PVR events selected for the custom theme by the user. The custom theme would provide the user with TV centric folder event management capability.

Event record start/ end time adjustment
The capability to have the SW automatically check the start / end times for timer. If the start / end time in the EPG is different from the time associated with the timer then the SW would automatically adjust the times to match the EPG. Not event based but provides some of the functionality.

Non-subscription channels flagged in favorites list
Add non-subscribed icons to the favorites list set up screens

We thank Echostar and the 721 Team for letting DBSTalk.COM members shape the future of the 721!

The poll will close on Friday December 27th.

[Scott Greczkowski]

I should note that the 721 team has been paying attention to your suggestions in other threads, just because they are not listed here does not necessarily mean they are not in consideration, infact some of the ideas could be in development by the 721 team as I write this. :)

Happy Holidays!

[Big D]

Scott, are you going to consolidate our suggestions and improvements from the previous thread we were working on, we had many additional ideas that I for one would like to see a poll on as well? This poll is based on either what Dish believes we want or what they believe they can do, however what I thought we were doing in the other thread was providing input to them as to what WE want. No where in our suggestions did I see weather as something we wanted, yet it is 20% of our available choices in this poll. We need to let them know we have higher priorities then the 5 given here.

Thanks for giving us this opportunity to improve the 721.

[Scott Greczkowski]

Big D read read what I wrote above your message. :)

[Big D]

I understand what you said in the post and I am sure that Dish has been reading all that we said earlier, what I wanted to suggest is that we take our earlier ideas and consolidate them into another poll where we could vote on maybe our top 3 or 4 or maybe even rank them if that is possible. The results would be informative to us I am sure and it would be another valued piece of input to Dish.

[bunkers]

I think the triple timer enhancement sounds great -- but I especially like the sound of the one time skipping capability to resolve timer conflicts!!

I think we need another weather app like with need another infomercial.

I also like the event start/stop adjustment enhancement.

I'd also like the ability to filter the PPV channels in the EPG (like they would ever do that!).

How about EPG filtering based on an "un-favorites" list?! That way my kids don't have to see the porn channels listed in the guide.

[Bill D]

Little confused, what does the PVR theme mean, is this a folder system, if it is is it going to be in the PVR menu, or do I have to go to PVR then go to themes then to somewhere else. We need a folder system right in the PVR menu, this sort by show is great if it could remember my selection from before..

The end/start time thing, I thought was stupid by saw that 40% voted for it, am I missing what it is supposed to do...why would the start end times be different then what was in the guide, especially if that is where I got my timer from. Are we talking overlaps like Survivor into CSI, and if so whats the big deal you set it once to end XX min late and your good. How will the SW know when the show really ends..
Sorry if I'm way lost..

[BobaBird]

I think the "Event record start/ end time adjustment" is supposed to be a way to automatically edit a timer when a show has a long episode.

[Scott Greczkowski]

Ok let me (hopefully explain better)

Yes the Custom Theme is indeed a type of folder! You can call your theme Scott's Theme (ok thats my theme) When you setup a recording you can assign the program my theme, therefore when sorting by themes you can see all of Scott's Theme shows. (I hope they have at least 2 of these themes)

The "Event Record start / end time adjustment" is neat, Lets say you had Survivor to record each week, well if you had it set to record last Thursdays finale you had to reset your timer to record the 2 hour show, if you didn't then your 721 only recorded an hour.

With the adjustment feature it would have noticed that the time was extended and extra hour and automaticly adjusted the time accordingly.

Both in my book are great features. I haven't voted yet (as I want all of them) :) But I will, and even if you don't have a 721 I encourage you to vote as your helping shape what is fast becoming one of the best PVR's on the market.

Happy Holidays!

[cmaier]

The Themes thing would be better if the search-by-theme thing understood themes as well. That is, if I could create a theme and assign it either a list of show titles (or, even better, a list of strings to match) and when I went to browse-by-theme I could select my handmade theme and it would show me all the matching shows.

For instance, I could make a theme "cartoons" and then be sure that my search would only turn up The Simpsons, Family Guy, Futurama and South Park, and it wouldn't turn up anything on the disney channel (just a for instance ;-)

[bunkers]

So based on the voting so far, the timer conflict (#2) and the Event timer time adjustment (#5) enhancements are in the lead.

I would go so far as to say that if you do #5, then my fear would be that conflicts would also increase (and the possibility of "cascading conflicts" and/or one time conflicts).

Which in my book means that #5 and #2 should be paired, because doing #5 without #2 is going to cause more problems. Doing both would solve several different problems AND compliment each other nicely, IMHO.

I agree that some basic folder management would be nice, but not as nice as these, IMHO. Maybe just a fixed number of folders (like favorite lists) would be available and could be customized (named). It would be nice for me to put my stuff in my own folder, my wife put her stuff in her own folder, and the kids in their folder ... and maybe a folder for movies. Then we could view all folder (themes?) or just a particular one within the PVR menu.

[Bill D]

Scott, thanks for making that make more sense. I still don't see a huge reason why the start/end time thing is being so popular. How often does a show change times, except for season finales of sopranos and surivivor..
The themes/folder sounds good, but I think it would have to have at minimum 6 'folders', Scott maybe you can find out if there will be a limit on this, and is this basically the way they would do folders in the future
I think the triple timer comflict is a great idea, and even though I really want weather, if the theme's is more then one or two folder's then I think I'd lean towards that one..

[Jacob S]

I thought the start/end time adjustment was going to allow a timer to fire if the starting time was changed to a different time?

Why not label the shows with a number in which that show is the only one that gets that number and then it can identify by number and change it to the different start/end time if it would change?

[bunkers]

IMO, I really don't see the value of the new weather application.

It doesn't sound much better/different than what we already have with openTV! Can't you just flip the channel to the weather channel, headline news, or the internet and get the information in seconds anyhow?

I also see little to no serious value in the the addition of openTV games and apps. Some of the apps are "ok", but the games look like something from an atari from 20 years ago, only worse. Dish just isn't going to make the sat. receiver into a decent gaming alternative using openTV, period.

My reccomendation: Downsize (or eliminate) the openTV team and hire more folks to work on and test the PVR software, IMHO.

[bunkers]

I also think to respond to Bill D re: the start/end time enhancement. I think this enhancement will be increasingly useful as time goes on because many of the MOST watched shows are now using "odd" show times, such as starting early, running 10 minutes late, etc. I have also noticed some shows run 30 minutes one week and then an hour the next and seem to change frequently (i.e. Jamie Kennedy). So if it happens even once, then currently you have to either change your timer to accomodate the new time and then rememeber to change it back, or you miss part of the show. You also may have to remove another timer if the conflict won't allow for the change. I would say that the flexible start/stop time adjustment would be very helpful to myself, but only if the one time conflict resolution is also implemeted at the same time.

[Bill D]

I guess the start/end enhancement could have some good point, I think Friends may be the only thing I record that is wacky like that, but I can see how others may use this more often..

Also Bunkers, I think most of Open TV stuff is o.k... Yes you could go online and get simliar stuff, but I don't leave my PC on all day, and by the time I get home, I just want to drop in front of the TV and it would be nice to be able to get sports scores, and occasional weather on my time, and not have to wait for a ticker on ESPN.

[Scott Greczkowski]

Yeah NBC "Must See TV" has a habbit of extending their shows. This would be VERY useful in those situations.

[LarryH]

I would love to see the "automatic start/end adjustment" feature. I assume that patent issues are preventing Dish from implementing name-based timers. Therefore, the next best thing would be timers with "auto-tracking". Once a timer is set by the user, the 721 will "lock" onto that show and follow it as it moves in the guide. It could also prevent the timer from firing if the show is not on that particular week. The 721 could periodically (daily?) compare it's timers to the EPG data and make start/end time adjustments. This would prevent us from missing shows when the networks play around with the start/end times of shows. Another idea would be to add a "don't record reruns" check box in the timer event screen. If this box is checked and the EPG data doesn't match the current year (ex: 2002), then the timer will not fire.

[BobaBird]

Following a show through the guide sounds like name-based recording. If I understand correctly, what is being proposed would work only if the new time overlaps the start/stop times of the original timer.

Preventing a timer from firing if the show is not on is the kind of limited name-based recording done by the DP. I also think it could be an extension of the auto adjust feature and possibly lead to having a 1-time event override a weekly event without having to delete the weekly.

[boba]

Scott seeing you seem to have DISH'S ear this is not a feature for the 721 specifically but more for the 50X. I would like to be able to set a timer that would turn off the receiver automatically so it could download the programming guide or software upgrades. I would like for example to be able to set a daily timer to shut the receiver off at 2A.M. and turn it on at 2:15 A.M. so my guide would always be up to date, I tend to leave the receiver on all the time.

[Jacob S]

Then if they have the feature on the DP for not having a timer and not having it fire, how come do they not implement this on this new feature idea for adjusting the time if it is changed for a show?

I do not think this time adjustment is as good as I thought it was because it does not solve the problem that we wanted solved, it just makes an attempt in which most times will not work because most of the time a show's time is changed completely instead of just starting early or being delayed.

[Scott Greczkowski]

Originally posted by boba
Scott seeing you seem to have DISH'S ear this is not a feature for the 721 specifically but more for the 50X. I would like to be able to set a timer that would turn off the receiver automatically so it could download the programming guide or software upgrades. I would like for example to be able to set a daily timer to shut the receiver off at 2A.M. and turn it on at 2:15 A.M. so my guide would always be up to date, I tend to leave the receiver on all the time.

The second tuner is always tuned and downloading guide info in the backround on the second tuner when the second tuner is not in use.

No reason to shut it off, unless you want to save power on the LED Power Light. :)

[Bill D]

Scott, boba has a 508..

[bunkers]

Is it just me --- or isn't turning off the 501/508/721 a pretty easy thing to do?!

I will admit I wish I could power off the unit (automatically) after the currently executing timer(s) are completed.

If your problem is not related to currently executing timers (which prevent you from turning off the power at that time) -- then
I would just try to make a habit of pressing the power off button for the receiver at the same time you power off your TV set. I know that sometimes if its recording that you can't turn it off then, but most of the time the power off at bedtime routine should serve you well.

Maybe what you really wanted to ask for was the ability to "power off", even if a timer is currently in progress -- and what that would actually do is:

* the reciever would acknowledge your power off button push and then put the unit into the power off mode after its done recording -- maybe it would display a brief message saying "The receiver will shut off after the current timer event(s) are finished."
The message would not require an <ok>, but would just pop up for a couple of seconds and then go away on its own.

So right now, the PVR(s) seems to resume to the mode ("on" or "off") it was in when the currently executing timer was started -- but with the kind of enhancement I am talking about, you could allow the power off button press to the be noted (w/ message as above) and then this sets the default mode to "off", even if the mode was "on" when the currently executing timer was started. Seems like it would be simple to do -- and meets my needs and is less complicated that creating timer based power-on and power-off type events, IMHO.

[LarryH]

Originally posted by BobaBird
Following a show through the guide sounds like name-based recording.

Not necessarily - depends how the patent is written. If the patent describes "user-entered search strings" as the method for setting up timers, then this new feature may not violate the patent. Even after this enhancement, we would still be setting up timers via the EPG (instead of using a search string).

[MediaMills]

Originally posted by bunkers
I also think to respond to Bill D re: the start/end time enhancement. I think this enhancement will be increasingly useful as time goes on because many of the MOST watched shows are now using "odd" show times, such as starting early, running 10 minutes late, etc. I have also noticed some shows run 30 minutes one week and then an hour the next and seem to change frequently (i.e. Jamie Kennedy).
I am assuming that the logic of making this happen would compare the timer runtimes to the EPG. That isn't going to help record "Friends" that runs from 7:00 to 7:33 because the guide says "Friends" runs from 7:00 to 7:30.

Again we're back to Garbage in, Garbage out. I just wish that they wouldn't stick extra ads into "Friends" because they sell for more money making the runtime long, then cut ads from the next show because they don't make as much money on those...and that show runs :27 minutes.
The networks will do anything for an extra buck. :(

[bunkers]

Using friends as the example of a problematic timer:

Does TIVO handle shows like this?

And if so, it is just because their guide is more accurate?

It seems like maybe the dish EPG needs to expand beyond the same 30 minute increments to handle this. Can it already?

Does replayTV handle this?

[ericha]

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Triple timer conflict resolution screen
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It seems to me that this isn't a feature, but rather how the product should have worked in the 1st place.

[dbronstein]

Originally posted by bunkers
Using friends as the example of a problematic timer:

Does TIVO handle shows like this?

And if so, it is just because their guide is more accurate?

It seems like maybe the dish EPG needs to expand beyond the same 30 minute increments to handle this. Can it already?

Does replayTV handle this?

None of the PVRs can handle it. They have no way of knowing that a show scheduled from 7 to 7:30 is actually going to run from 6:59 to 7:33. That's why they let you pad the record times. The big problem that the 721 has with this is you can only pad the start times by 1 minute. They need to let us pad as long as we want, like we can do with the end times.

Of course if the networks would actually provide the real start and end times in the listings, the PVRs would handle them just fine.

Dennis

[Karl Foster]

Originally posted by bunkers
Using friends as the example of a problematic timer:

Does TIVO handle shows like this?

And if so, it is just because their guide is more accurate?

It seems like maybe the dish EPG needs to expand beyond the same 30 minute increments to handle this. Can it already?

Does replayTV handle this?

I can't speak for DirecTivo, but Ultimatetv handles this automatically when the local station provides the proper information. When Friends had their "super-size" episodes, our local NBC station (KSL in Salt Lake City) had the proper times on the guide - 7:00 - 7:33. The UTV automatically adjutsted the time and it was recorded properly. Manually padding the ending wasn't necessary.

If the station doesn't provide right times, though, no PVR will be able to catch it.

[Karl Foster]

What about parental controls? Will the 721 have them anytime soon?

[Bill D]

Originally posted by karl_f
What about parental controls? Will the 721 have them anytime soon?
Thats a great ??, my kids are still young enough were it isn't a problem, but this should be a priority as well

[bunkers]

The (simple) parental controls I have suggested could take the form of a "banned list", where you could enter a password and maintain a "banned list" of channels and then those channels would no longer be accessible, nor found in the EPG or in searches. To enable viewing of these channels, you would need to enter a password to toggle out of the banned list filtering mode.

This particular enhancement would have the additional benefit of filtering out channels which you never watch and/or don't like scrolling though -- i.e. home shopping channels, maybe some foreign language channels, etc ...

For me, I would just be happy if my kids didn't have to see all those XXX PPV channels -- even the titles of those shows can contain words and phrases you don't want your kids seeing!

I think DISH needs to consider this enhancement very seriously.

[bunkers]

Regarding the question of the DISH EPG having correct start and end times -- it sounds like DISH has either one of two problems here.

(A) they cannot or do not enter shows in anything but in 30 minute multiples (i.e. 30 minutes is the lowest common denominator) or

(B) the are not entering accurate enough information into the EPG, or their source of information is not very accurate when it comes to these "super sized" episodes.

I have also noticed that some shows - show up as 1 hour in the EPG, whereas others show up as 2 30 minutes shows (back to back), even though when you watch them, they are really a single show in both cases.

I wonder if fixing the EPG guide data wouldn't be easier than adding more enhancements to correct the timers to handle these abnormalities. Maybe its just a deficiency of being time and channel based and not name based.

[Jacob S]

I think it is a Program Guide issue. Is there a way that they can at least add a feature telling you that your show's time has changed and then from that point you can change your time on a screen? It might not be automatic but at least you would know about it. A warning could pop up before the timer fires.

[goblin]

I wonder if it would be sufficient to just have a conflict resolution screen that we could check once a week or so to make manual individual override adjustments (including one time cancels) to any timers that are:

1) in conflict with other timers
2) don't completely cover a show as listed in the current program guide
3) no longer match the name of the show that was originally at that slot
when the timer was created (sneaky, but this may be free from any
name-based recording patent infringement concerns)

With the complexities of managing event timer padding, show extensions &reschedulings, patent mazes, and two tuners, I question if even the software wizards at E* could put together an automated conflict resolution system that would make us all happy. Granted, resolving problems manually might be too much for joe sixpack (or with deepest respect: my wife) to deal with -- but at least everyone could see where the current week's problems occur.

I think it would be great if the 721 could present us with a list of 'problems' as described above and provide an advanced manual process to make ad-hoc timer overrides and adjustments for those of us willing to puzzle out the best resolution to the conflicts (matching our individual priorities -- not a software program's). Over time E* could create AI routines to make resolution 'suggestions' and as that software matured, it could become a standard automated option for those who would rather not manually tweak things.

[bunkers]

I think Jason and goblin are right on the money -- I very much like these ideas.

I believe I have come to the same basic conclusion -- that a manual method of dealing with problems would be the best solution (not the best), but would allow all the (usually justified) whiners to be enabled to fix things, if they so desired.

I think if they implement the 1x override capability (#2) as a result of this survey, the next step would be to allow for some kind of conflict (and/or problem -- as you defined problems) management screen.

When you pick a show to record on the PVR, if they stored the channel, the start,stop time, and the name -- then they could check all this information, for all timers against the current EPG (whenever the EPG is updated) to see if anything is in disagreement and if so, then just flag it as a "possble" conflict managed item for this week. It'll still record if nothing is done (as it would now), but it would give you a little "to do" list of problems to resolve/look into if you were so inclined.

I believe my wife would/could do this -- and is considerably better than I am at navigating the menus and options (grin).

I think this functionality is probably more an an issue for 501/508 folks -- but all PVR users would benefit when an EPG change occurs.

[TerryC]

Originally posted by dbronstein


Of course if the networks would actually provide the real start and end times in the listings, the PVRs would handle them just fine.

Dennis

The networks are scared to death of PVRs. They aren't going to help us.

[bunkers]

I would be curious to hear what DISH execs would say about the possibility of using/adding name based timers on its PVR(s).

I wonder why this has never come up on a Charlie Chat or Tech Forum?

Is this something that has been seriously considered? -- or did they just set out to create a hard drive based VCR (with timeslot based timers) instead?

Is there even a remote chance that a scripting language could be developed (or shared) which allows 3rd party folks )or individuals) to develop standalone plug-ins for the DISH PVR receivers?

[Jacob S]

If it would tell us if the title of the show did not match what was orginally planned for that time slot that would help a LOT! A warning that it is not the same show and then show us when that show comes on again, a list of times for that show and then you can select the time you want it to record. It would be like a search, so it could do a search and then you select which one to record if it came up different on the guide.