View Full Version : Going on 5th HR20, what should I do now?
craigowens
10-24-07, 09:46 PM
I've finally decided to move from my trusty HR10 to an HR20 in order to get all the new HD content (despite the missing DLB). I am on my 4th HR20 now, and expect to have to replace it with a 5th.
HR20 #1. I already had the 5LNB dish, so the technician just swapped the receiver with an HR20-100. It worked fine until I enabled 1080i resolution with native on. After this I got a green screen and the receiver would not respond to anything except a RBR. It continued to do this at least once an hour that evening. It worked OK with native off, but I wanted to have native on so I called to get a replacement.
HR20 #2. I received another HR20-100 in the mail. It was refurbished despite DTV assuring me that they would send a new one. This one worked fine except my local HD channels (San Francisco) were intermittent (mostly off, not on). I called DTV and they decided my LNB was broken (I don't have one) or my dish needed alignment. They sent a technician who checked my installation and said my receiver was bad and replaced it.
HR20 #3. This one (HR20-100, new) worked perfectly for almost 24 hours. Then, all of a sudden one of the tuners stopped working. I got "not acquired" on tuner #2 for all the satellites. I called for another replacement. I insisted upon talking to retention who gave me free HD service for 1 year and a $70 credit. They mailed me a new one.
HR20#4. Yesterday, I received an HR20-700 in the mail (refurbished, despite DTV promising a new one). After activation, when I tried to tune my first channel it hung. A RBR could not boot, getting stuck on the first DTV spash screen. Power cycling worked. I watched TV last night. Today, I came home from work and it was hung. RBR got stuck in the same place as last night. Power cycling fixed it. I don't have the energy to call DTV tonight, but I will on the next hang.
I have a simple setup. Two TVs both wired directly to the dish, no multiswitches. I never had any trouble with the HR10. No there has been no adverse weather. Any advice for me? At this point I am thinking of moving to a different service provider.
Earl Bonovich
10-24-07, 09:52 PM
Honestly..
I would start back at the dish.
The issue syou listed in #2 and #3 and #4; Could all be issues because of problems with the signal..
The issue you list in #1... unless you can recall the EXACT sotware version you were on...... HDMI issues have pretty much been resolved... (What model TV do you have).
Getting 4 defective HR20's is WAY WAY WAY out of the norm... and since you are directly connected to the dish... it is very possible you have an issue with the dish.
What other receiver do you have connected to the 5LNB dish (since you already had it installed).
veryoldschool
10-24-07, 09:55 PM
Do you have the BBCs on the back of the receiver's SAT inputs?
You might try other ones or removing them [to test that they are the cause]. Without them you won't get the new HD channels but will get the older ones [in the 70-80s] and your local HD channels.
A lot of the BBCs have been bad out of the box and D* will send you new ones for free [but might test it without them to prove your problem is them].
Doug Brott
10-24-07, 10:26 PM
VOS, that could be a good call .. Also, someone in another thread found that there were some amplifiers on the line for another device (a TiVo in that case). Turns out that the amplifier was causing intermittent problems on the HR20 .. In that case there were three receivers, but the other two were single-tuner.
Having this many "bad" devices is indicative of something else being the problem, cable LNB, etc. The best plan may be to what you have started here and that is to initiate some troubleshooting.
craigowens
10-24-07, 10:53 PM
Thanks for your suggestions. Here are some answers to the questions:
1) My other receivers that are working fine are a Philips DSR6000 and an HR10. They have both been up for almost two years with this dish.
2) TV is a Pioneer 5080HD, connected using HDMI.
3) I have swapped BBCs several times (I have 8 in my home at this point).
4) All HR20s have been running 0x18a. #1 and #4 were upgraded when I plugged them in.
5) Problem #3 with tuner #2 "not acquired" stayed on tuner #2 even when swapping cables. This convinced me it was a receiver issue.
I don't understand how the system hanging (problems #1 and #4) can have anything to do with the dish, LNB or HDMI. It simply doesn't respond to the remote. I can tell it's not a display issue because the power LED blinks when the remote is pressed. Perhaps I don't understand how the system works.
veryoldschool
10-24-07, 10:59 PM
I don't understand how the system hanging (problems #1 and #4) can have anything to do with the dish, LNB or HDMI. It simply doesn't respond to the remote. I can tell it's not a display issue because the power LED blinks when the remote is pressed. Perhaps I don't understand how the system works.
If I follow your posting: this is after a reboot with the D* splash screen.
This is where two things are going on:
1) searching for SAT signal. [Dish LNB, cablings, BBC]
2) checking the hard drive. [front panel reformat might cure]
Doug Brott
10-24-07, 11:47 PM
1) My other receivers that are working fine are a Philips DSR6000 and an HR10. They have both been up for almost two years with this dish.
OK .. I got my 5-LNB dish just over a year ago and I thought it was pretty new at the time. Did you really get a 5-LNB dish nearly 2 years ago? Neither the Philips DSR6000 nor the Hughes HR10-250 would have required it anyway.
veryoldschool
10-25-07, 01:11 AM
OK .. I got my 5-LNB dish just over a year ago and I thought it was pretty new at the time. Did you really get a 5-LNB dish nearly 2 years ago? Neither the Philips DSR6000 nor the Hughes HR10-250 would have required it anyway.
April '06 D* installed my AT9 [but that was with my H20].
Thanks for your suggestions. Here are some answers to the questions:
..........
I don't understand how the system hanging (problems #1 and #4) can have anything to do with the dish, LNB or HDMI. It simply doesn't respond to the remote. I can tell it's not a display issue because the power LED blinks when the remote is pressed. Perhaps I don't understand how the system works.
As a 10 year veteran custom installer, I am going to recommend that you switch from HDMI to component video. This is the likely culprit for the problems you are having. There are certain devices that just don't play well together. Don't worry about not getting "a perfect digital signal" by going to component, you won't be able to tell the difference. It may even look better. There are handshaking protocols in the HDMI signal the both devices have to understand, and frequently this causes connectivity and lockup issues. If you were to ask most installers who set up $100k plus systems, they will tell you to avoid HDMI because it isn't ready for the big time yet. Before I get flamed, I know that there are systems out there running reliably with HDMI, but it isn't nearly as reliable as component.
The way that the LNB could be causing a problem that wouldn't have manifest itself on your other receivers is that there are 2 additional LNBs on the Dish that your other receivers ignored altogether because they operate in a different frequency range than the legacy hardware supports. If there is a problem with the signal, your other receivers simply wouldn't have seen it.
In addition to the above, I would check every connection between the dish and the HR20. I am always amazed when I see "Professionally Installed" satellite systems with loose fittings or poorly terminated ends. This accounts for the majority of failures and signal related issues.
martin63
10-25-07, 10:01 AM
Honestly..
I would start back at the dish.
The issue syou listed in #2 and #3 and #4; Could all be issues because of problems with the signal..
The issue you list in #1... unless you can recall the EXACT sotware version you were on...... HDMI issues have pretty much been resolved... (What model TV do you have).
Getting 4 defective HR20's is WAY WAY WAY out of the norm... and since you are directly connected to the dish... it is very possible you have an issue with the dish.
What other receiver do you have connected to the 5LNB dish (since you already had it installed).
4 defective HR-20's is not out of the question. I have been one of the unlucky one's to spend hours on the phone getting 4 replaced. Tuner went bad on 1st, 2nd would not power up, 3rd hard drive was very noisy, and the 4th had constant problem with searching for sat signal. So here I am on my 5th. This receiver just seems to be plagued with problems.
Earl Bonovich
10-25-07, 10:04 AM
4 defective HR-20's is not out of the question. I have been one of the unlucky one's to spend hours on the phone getting 4 replaced. Tuner went bad on 1st, 2nd would not power up, 3rd hard drive was very noisy, and the 4th had constant problem with searching for sat signal. So here I am on my 5th. This receiver just seems to be plagued with problems.
It is never "out of the question"...
but for it to happen... it is WAY WAY against the norm...
craigowens
10-25-07, 12:17 PM
Well I turned on the TV this morning and I could watch TV, change channels, power on/off, but pause/FF/RR would not work. I came back a half hour later and it had rebooted and was stuck on splash screen #1. What is this, Candid Camera?
Per the suggestions, I am changing to component video. I will also try reformatting the drive if I can get it to work. I pressed/held left arrow and record during a RBR but it did not take, despite trying three times.
I'm not optimistic.
Craig,
Have you connected your HR20 to a network? If so, try disconnecting and see what happens.
SFNSXguy
10-25-07, 12:38 PM
Clearly you have yet-another bad HR20. The other posters are well-meaning, but hesitant to say anything negative about the Great D*.
Stop chasing your tail and get another receiver... it might work! (I'd say the odds are creeping towards being in your favor.)
veryoldschool
10-25-07, 12:49 PM
I pressed/held left arrow and record during a RBR but it did not take, despite trying three times.
I'm not optimistic.
You will get better reaction if you use the down arrow.
Since this is going to wipe out the drive:
Go into the setup menu. Then reset and pick "reset everything".
After it reboots and walks you through the setup guide [again] then reboot again and do the down arrow & record button on the front panel.
If you have any issues afterwords, call D* and get it replaced.
veryoldschool
10-25-07, 12:50 PM
The other posters are well-meaning, but hesitant to say anything negative about the Great D*.
I disagree with this.
I disagree with this.
VOS,
I think he's referring to me :lol:
Earl Bonovich
10-25-07, 12:59 PM
VOS,
I think he's referring to me :lol:
Then he don't know you very well.... do he....
As a 10 year veteran custom installer, I am going to recommend that you switch from HDMI to component video. This is the likely culprit for the problems you are having. There are certain devices that just don't play well together. Don't worry about not getting "a perfect digital signal" by going to component, you won't be able to tell the difference. It may even look better. There are handshaking protocols in the HDMI signal the both devices have to understand, and frequently this causes connectivity and lockup issues. If you were to ask most installers who set up $100k plus systems, they will tell you to avoid HDMI because it isn't ready for the big time yet. Before I get flamed, I know that there are systems out there running reliably with HDMI, but it isn't nearly as reliable as component.
The way that the LNB could be causing a problem that wouldn't have manifest itself on your other receivers is that there are 2 additional LNBs on the Dish that your other receivers ignored altogether because they operate in a different frequency range than the legacy hardware supports. If there is a problem with the signal, your other receivers simply wouldn't have seen it.
In addition to the above, I would check every connection between the dish and the HR20. I am always amazed when I see "Professionally Installed" satellite systems with loose fittings or poorly terminated ends. This accounts for the majority of failures and signal related issues.
Very good reply. I had problems with two Sony CRT Hi Def TVs and HDMI. D* was no help until I got thru to a woman in D*'s Oregon call center and she told me to go to component and my problems cleared up immediately.
"Honestly.. Getting 4 defective HR20's is WAY WAY WAY out of the norm... and since you are directly connected to the dish... it is very possible you have an issue with the dish."
Hi Earl, have to disagree. The last time I got a new HR20-100 from D* it wouldn't record. The next one wouldn't recognize any remote control. The next one had a problem too, don't truthfully remember what it was, but I sent it back and the fourth 100 is now in use in my son's room. That all happened within a week about 2-3 months ago. 1 in 4. I have 5 functioning HR20s out of 20 since last November. Admittedly a lot of those replacements were because the CSR was lost and the easiest thing to do was to send me a new or refurbished unit. But, again, 5 out of 20. 1 in 4.
Sounds like the dish to me too. Or the HDMI.
April '06 D* installed my AT9 [but that was with my H20].
I think I read on one of the threads that the AT9 is defective.
Earl Bonovich
10-25-07, 05:23 PM
I think I read on one of the threads that the AT9 is defective.
AT9 installed since January '06.... There is nothing "defective" about the model AT9...
Maybe individual ones (just like anything)... but not the entire model.
Michael D'Angelo
10-25-07, 05:25 PM
I have had my AT-9 installed since June of 2006 and have not had any problems with it.
veryoldschool
10-25-07, 05:55 PM
I think I read on one of the threads that the AT9 is defective.
Replace "defective" with "obsolete", and you're good to go.
Replace "defective" with "obsolete", and you're good to go.
Can't remember where that posting was but it said "defective". But obsolete is a good reason to get a new one. Don't tell me you don't have the Protection Plan. It's been raining here since I read that post and I have not had the chance to go up on the roof and check, but if mine is an AT9 I will have it replaced. If I can find the post I will send you a link.
AT9 installed since January '06.... There is nothing "defective" about the model AT9...
Maybe individual ones (just like anything)... but not the entire model.
OK, I guess I gotta find that post and delve into this a little further. Wouldn't surprise me if I got the model number wrong.
OK, I guess I gotta find that post and delve into this a little further. Wouldn't surprise me if I got the model number wrong.
Just searched for "AT9" and got so many hits it overwhelmed me. Not all critical of the AT9, just too many to read thru. Will find it and pass it on when I have more time. Apparently mine is an AT9 since the description on one of the posts was that the dish has an extra arm for the needed LNBs. Confused? Me too.
I'm not sure how it is that I've installed 50+ of these receivers with zero failures. Lucky I guess. Seriously, go check all of your terminations and make sure they are tight, and that there are no strands of the shielding wrapped around the center conductor. I know that it is a pain in the ass, but at least you will have the peace of mind that the connections are good. Additionally, the OP stated that the house was 14 years old, RG59 was still prevalent at that time and RG6 was just coming into use. Are any of the receivers wired over the existing house infrastructure, or did the installer run all new RG6 Quad, preferably with solid copper center conductor?
craigowens
10-26-07, 02:14 PM
Are any of the receivers wired over the existing house infrastructure, or did the installer run all new RG6 Quad, preferably with solid copper center conductor?
I ran dual RG6 myself about two months ago directly from the receiver to the dish.
In any case, my 4th receiver has deteriorated and won't even boot now so I've got a 5th coming next week. I've decided to get technician visits for all my replacement receivers because they will send out a new receiver. All the mail-out replacements are refurbished (a.k.a. intermittently broken).
Dr. Booda
10-26-07, 02:34 PM
I ran dual RG6 myself about two months ago directly from the receiver to the dish.
In any case, my 4th receiver has deteriorated and won't even boot now so I've got a 5th coming next week. I've decided to get technician visits for all my replacement receivers because they will send out a new receiver. All the mail-out replacements are refurbished (a.k.a. intermittently broken).
Craig,
I'm on my 4th HR-20 now (3 -700 & 1 -100) and they have all been refurbished units (even the original). My first one died with a bad & loud hard drive, the second is still functioning after six months, the third had a tuner die after audible noise emanating from it, and the fourth decided last Sunday to crash when it began to record a scheduled program (771 error on the tuner I was watching at the time !?). I had a technician out today to look over the cables and connectors and he found a few things, but not enough to convince me that these issues have a common source near the dish. Good luck with the new unit (sounds like a good strategy), and I'll probably be on my fifth one also soon. :eek2:
Replace "defective" with "obsolete", and you're good to go.
Found the post and it's from a newbie. But he did have his AT9 replaced with a new slimline and it cleared up all his problems.
I saw the word "defective" and overreacted. Sorry.
I'm not sure how it is that I've installed 50+ of these receivers with zero failures. Lucky I guess. Seriously, go check all of your terminations and make sure they are tight, and that there are no strands of the shielding wrapped around the center conductor. I know that it is a pain in the ass, but at least you will have the peace of mind that the connections are good. Additionally, the OP stated that the house was 14 years old, RG59 was still prevalent at that time and RG6 was just coming into use. Are any of the receivers wired over the existing house infrastructure, or did the installer run all new RG6 Quad, preferably with solid copper center conductor?
Did you check back to see if any of those 50+ units still worked after a day or two?
By the way, what, specifically, is the solid copper center conductor for?
veryoldschool
10-26-07, 02:59 PM
Found the post and it's from a newbie. But he did have his AT9 replaced with a new slimline and it cleared up all his problems.
I saw the word "defective" and overreacted. Sorry.
I think a "working" Dish is better than one that doesn't. :D
If you have bad LNB, then the Slimline is what you'll get to replace it.
Did you check back to see if any of those 50+ units still worked after a day or two?
By the way, what, specifically, is the solid copper center conductor for?
Solid copper causes less signal loss than some of the cheaper alternatives.
Honestly..
I would start back at the dish.
The issue syou listed in #2 and #3 and #4; Could all be issues because of problems with the signal..
The issue you list in #1... unless you can recall the EXACT sotware version you were on...... HDMI issues have pretty much been resolved... (What model TV do you have).
Getting 4 defective HR20's is WAY WAY WAY out of the norm... and since you are directly connected to the dish... it is very possible you have an issue with the dish.
What other receiver do you have connected to the 5LNB dish (since you already had it installed).
I have gone thru 6 DTV rcvr's. the 100 and the 700 and every single time they send a replacement they send along a tech who checks the dish the switch and the lines. Everything falls back on the box. I told the office of the president that i was thoroughly disgusted after 7 years of billing and equipment issues that their response was "sorry sir this is not an exact science and we are working to resolve all known and unknown issues..." I had a District manager call me yesterday to say that he was delivering himself an HR21 and coming to do a complete re-install..if I have an issue with the box or signal..I may have to take a hammer into the first directv office i find...
veryoldschool
10-26-07, 03:19 PM
Did you check back to see if any of those 50+ units still worked after a day or two?
By the way, what, specifically, is the solid copper center conductor for?
Solid copper core [center] is for better LNB [DC] power, over a steel conductor with copper cladding.
Did you check back to see if any of those 50+ units still worked after a day or two?
By the way, what, specifically, is the solid copper center conductor for?
Let me clarify. Installing DirecTV is not the primary activity of our operation, I am a high-end AV and automation integrator. So, yes, I have been with all of these systems several times after they have been installed. To date, the worst I have had happen is that the client will call me with a receiver lockup and I instruct them to find the little button behind the front door and press it.
I am convinced that most of the problems that people are having with reliability are related to poorly terminated wires. The other operational issues are due primarily to HDMI issues and the occasional software glitch. HDMI = The Devil
my site: www.ecubedav.com
I ran dual RG6 myself about two months ago directly from the receiver to the dish.
In any case, my 4th receiver has deteriorated and won't even boot now so I've got a 5th coming next week. I've decided to get technician visits for all my replacement receivers because they will send out a new receiver. All the mail-out replacements are refurbished (a.k.a. intermittently broken).
I don't want to insult you, but did you terminate the wires yourself, or were they factory made? If you are using radioshack hex style crimp connectors, I am willing to put money on connector failure.
Also, did you turn off the Native mode and switch to component video yet? What is the native resolution of your display? Most HD sets are 1366x768, and work best if you fix the output of the receiver at 720p since it is closest to the panel's native resolution. Try it.
One more thing. How much ventilation are you giving the receiver? These things run HOT, and require plenty of ventilation to operate properly. If they overheat, premature failure is extremely likely. Do you have it sitting directly on top of your surround receiver with a DVD player or on top of the DVR or similar?
craigowens
10-27-07, 08:35 AM
One more thing. How much ventilation are you giving the receiver? These things run HOT, and require plenty of ventilation to operate properly. If they overheat, premature failure is extremely likely. Do you have it sitting directly on top of your surround receiver with a DVD player or on top of the DVR or similar?
This may have something to do with it. It was sitting in an open front shelf on a turned off DVD player. I will try removing the DVD player for my 5th. The temperature in the last one showed 125 but it was quite warm to the touch. However, I am a hardware design manager as a day job and any engineer who designs a product that cannot survive a weekend in that environment really needs to find another trade.
I don't understand why so many people cannot be convinced that the hardware is simply bad. If I was having the same problems with all the receiver then it would make sense, but each one is different. If the thing won't boot at all it has nothing to do with crimped cables or HDMI.
I don't understand why so many people cannot be convinced that the hardware is simply bad. If I was having the same problems with all the receiver then it would make sense, but each one is different. If the thing won't boot at all it has nothing to do with crimped cables or HDMI.
You clearly have not had much experience with HDMI. I can't count the various weird symptoms it has caused over the last couple of years. It has locked up every type of device we have hooked it to, doesn't matter if it is a $100 DVD player, Motorola Cable box (the worst offender!) or a $5000 Anthem Surround processor. To the point where it is our policy not to use it, it just costs us too much money in service calls.
You never answered my question about the coaxial terminations, but with that last statement I think you may have validated my guess. If there is an errant strand of shielding that is causing a marginal short, the problems you are describing could be the result. Check your wiring.
craigowens
10-27-07, 11:33 AM
You clearly have not had much experience with HDMI. I can't count the various weird symptoms it has caused over the last couple of years. It has locked up every type of device we have hooked it to, doesn't matter if it is a $100 DVD player, Motorola Cable box (the worst offender!) or a $5000 Anthem Surround processor. To the point where it is our policy not to use it, it just costs us too much money in service calls.
You never answered my question about the coaxial terminations, but with that last statement I think you may have validated my guess. If there is an errant strand of shielding that is causing a marginal short, the problems you are describing could be the result. Check your wiring.
When I finally returned the 4th unit, I had switched to component video, so HDMI is not the problem.
I bought my cables at a local specialty store devoted to home AV/networking, etc. I had them crimped there with their good tools. They had been working fine for several months on my HR10. Bad crimps would not explain how all the units behave differently.
I think a "working" Dish is better than one that doesn't. :D
If you have bad LNB, then the Slimline is what you'll get to replace it.
Remember that HR20-700 that I couldn't get to work in the RF mode with any remote? Crashed and died. Replacement on the way. Really looking forward to at least two weeks of D*Hell. Took almost 3 hours on the phone with various D* CSRs, stupidvisors and resolution experts and the "friendly" folks at the Protection Plan. Finally convinced them to send me a replacement. Undoubtedly a 100 that won't work for any number of reasons and then another and another.
Solid copper core [center] is for better LNB [DC] power, over a steel conductor with copper cladding.
I know that. What I thought that he was talking about was the dual coaxial cable the installers are using now with the solid copper wire running between the two coaxial cables.
Solid copper core [center] is for better LNB [DC] power, over a steel conductor with copper cladding.
You will note he never answered my question.
veryoldschool
10-27-07, 03:26 PM
I know that. What I thought that he was talking about was the dual coaxial cable the installers are using now with the solid copper wire running between the two coaxial cables.
If you're asking about what D* installed here, its dual RG6 with a ground wire [which is brained 18 ga. or less].
Let me clarify. Installing DirecTV is not the primary activity of our operation, I am a high-end AV and automation integrator. So, yes, I have been with all of these systems several times after they have been installed. To date, the worst I have had happen is that the client will call me with a receiver lockup and I instruct them to find the little button behind the front door and press it.
I am convinced that most of the problems that people are having with reliability are related to poorly terminated wires. The other operational issues are due primarily to HDMI issues and the occasional software glitch. HDMI = The Devil
my site: www.ecubedav.com
The last time I got an HR20-100, it would not record. The next one sounded like it had a rattlesnake inside. The next one would not respond to ANY remote. Finally, on the fourth try I got a 100 that has been functioning correctly for months. What could any of those issues possibly have to do with poorly terminated wires? I don't know why they did what they did, but I have had the same problems with new in the box HR20s and refurbs. I have had over 20 since November and I am not doing this for fun. D* released an improperly tested unit to begin with and it has gotten better. But at first, wow.
I don't want to insult you, but did you terminate the wires yourself, or were they factory made? If you are using radioshack hex style crimp connectors, I am willing to put money on connector failure.
Also, did you turn off the Native mode and switch to component video yet? What is the native resolution of your display? Most HD sets are 1366x768, and work best if you fix the output of the receiver at 720p since it is closest to the panel's native resolution. Try it.
One more thing. How much ventilation are you giving the receiver? These things run HOT, and require plenty of ventilation to operate properly. If they overheat, premature failure is extremely likely. Do you have it sitting directly on top of your surround receiver with a DVD player or on top of the DVR or similar?
My three Panasonic plasmas are all 1366x768 and the difference in PQ is very visible between 1080i and 720p. I can tell immediately when a broadcast is in 720p because of the loss of PQ.
As to the ventilation, you can stack them and they won't overheat. There have been many posts verifying this. Most of those posts by people I know and trust.
I'd rather be a pessimist and be wrong than an optimist and be wrong.
What is the difference Rich in that statement? Two wrongs don't make a right I guess?
If you're asking about what D* installed here, its dual RG6 with a ground wire [which is brained 18 ga. or less].
Brained? I know what you mean. All the dual cables I have have a solid ground wire. Would rather have braided, but much more expensive.
I have asked several installers what that middle wire was for and only one said it was a ground wire. Can you imagine the level of training they get, if they don't know a ground wire when they see one?
What is the difference Rich in that statement? Two wrongs don't make a right I guess?
Didn't expect to get a comment on that. Since you asked, I'll answer.
I used to work for the company that allegedly was responsible for the worst industrial accident in the recorded history of the world. After that, the last thing we wanted was an accident or an adverse media story. When you're in a position of authority and responsible for the safety of many employees in an atmosphere like that, you tend to look at each task and think "what is the worst thing that could happen"? And take precautions based on that question. An admittedly pessimistic outlook. That was a long time ago, but the pessimistic outlook I have has been a positive factor in my life.
To but it briefly, if you think the worst is going to happen and it doesn't, that has to make you happy. If you're a really optimistic person I would think you would tend to be disappointed the majority of the time.
That statement is not something I thought up, by the way. A wiser person than I originated that.
Didn't expect to get a comment on that. Since you asked, I'll answer.
I used to work for the company that allegedly was responsible for the worst industrial accident in the recorded history of the world. After that, the last thing we wanted was an accident or an adverse media story. When you're in a position of authority and responsible for the safety of many employees in an atmosphere like that, you tend to look at each task and think "what is the worst thing that could happen"? And take precautions based on that question. An admittedly pessimistic outlook. That was a long time ago, but the pessimistic outlook I have has been a positive factor in my life.
To but it briefly, if you think the worst is going to happen and it doesn't, that has to make you happy. If you're a really optimistic person I would think you would tend to be disappointed the majority of the time.
That statement is not something I thought up, by the way. A wiser person than I originated that.
Pessimist are not always worried or fearful of perceived dangers or issues? Sounds like when bad happens a pessimist will be further angered or disappointed and a optimist may be, if they are not it's do to a better outlook they tend to have (better attitude).
Thanks for the explanation Rich.
Pessimist are not always worried or fearful of perceived dangers or issues? Sounds like when bad happens a pessimist will be further angered or disappointed and a optimist may be, if they are not it's do to a better outlook they tend to have (better attitude).
Thanks for the explanation Rich.
Yeah, being bent toward pessimism is kind of depressing. My wife is a raging optimist and it hurts me to see how many times she is disappointed. Makes me prefer the pessimistic outlook.
I was questioned many times by the people above me in the corporate structure about expenditures made because of safety concerns.
An industrial accident accompanied by personal injury used to cost between half a million and a million dollars as opposed to spending fifty thousand to correct an unsafe condition. Would you be optimistic and trust that the accident would not occur or would you pessimistically fix the problem beforehand?
Yeah, being bent toward pessimism is kind of depressing. My wife is a raging optimist and it hurts me to see how many times she is disappointed. Makes me prefer the pessimistic outlook.
I was questioned many times by the people above me in the corporate structure about expenditures made because of safety concerns.
An industrial accident accompanied by personal injury used to cost between half a million and a million dollars as opposed to spending fifty thousand to correct an unsafe condition. Would you be optimistic and trust that the accident would not occur or would you pessimistically fix the problem beforehand?
There will always be accidents it's out of your control, but it's good that you care, caring doesn't mean your a pessimist. It means you think and plan how to avoid those costs. Sometimes your job will tie your hands and you have no control. It's always good to try to anyway. You sound like an optimist, who realizes that sometimes things are beyond your control or wishes.
There will always be accidents it's out of your control, but it's good that you care, caring doesn't mean your a pessimist. It means you think and plan how to avoid those costs. Sometimes your job will tie your hands and you have no control. It's always good to try to anyway. You sound like an optimist, who realizes that sometimes things are beyond your control or wishes.
Thank you!
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