Cascading Zinwell WB616 to Spaun legacy MS

[hiker]

I have a Zinwell WB616 that I have not installed as yet. I also have a Spaun SMS-51602NF 4x16 MS connected to Phase II Plus dish (oval with 3 separate LNBs) which is feeding all legacy receivers.

Ultimately I plan to connect the WB616 to Slimline to feed 2 HR20's and cascade to a WB68. I need 20 feeds, 4 for HR20's and 16 for legacy receivers. Eventually I will retire the Spaun but in the interim I'd like to see if it's possible to cascade the Spaun from the WB616. The Spaun has a switch to select 22KHz tone for using with a Phase III dish. I have a Phase II+ dish so that switch is set to off position.

The Zinwell WB616 installation guide shows only other WB616 and WB68 cascade diagrams. But will the Spaun work when cascaded from the WB616? I understand that the feeds from the Spaun would not pass signal from the Ka sats but the 12 feeds from the WB616 should. If it's possible, I assume the 22KHz tone switch would need to be set to on?

[Tom Robertson]

I suspect you could get something to work. But if you are like me, next week, next month, or next year, you are going to replace (or add :)) another MPEG4 receiver and need to go thru all this again. :)

Why not get a free WB68 from DIRECTV and run the WB68 in parallel with 4 power pass (one leg) satellite splitters? Makes all the lines ready for MEPG4 receivers, is a supported installation that you know will work, you won't have to redo this anytime soon, gives you 24 lines (you know you'll need them some day...), and all will be good. :)

Cheers,
Tom

[techrep]

It will work but, as Tom says......

!devil12: Shoulder :angel:

[veryoldschool]

From here: http://www.solidsignal.com/satellite/directv_dish_antenna_types.asp
I'm a bit lost for why the 22 kHz tone would be switched off.
It should be on for the 119 and 110 SATs.
I also don't see any reason the Spaun SMS-51602NF 4x16 couldn't be cascaded off the Zinwell WB616.
What am I missing here?
Now I can see there may be some signal loss with all of these outputs, so there may need to be an amp added.

Tom: if you use a splitter with only one port power passing, doesn't it need to be on the powered multiswitch?
Why not just use a splitter with power passing on both ports?

[hiker]

Thanks Tom,
Do you know of a way to get free WB68 without commitment and without an installer coming out? I bought the dish on eBay and the WB616 from solid signal to avoid the hassle of dealing with installers. Always done my own installs since 1994.

I'm trying to use the Spaun as connected in the interim to avoid any TV downtime. The ultimate plan is to retire all legacy stuff.

I guess I could connect the WB616 and WB68 in parallel as you suggested or cascade as shown in the Zinwell installation guide. The difference is 20 ports vs 24 ports. Does solid signal sell the power pass (one leg) satellite splitters?

[veryoldschool]

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=WB68
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882250002

Splitter:
http://cgi.ebay.com/3-Skywalker-2-Way-Splitters-5-2300-MHz-DBS-DirecTV-RG6_W0QQitemZ140171241528QQihZ004QQcategoryZ32847Q QcmdZViewItem

[hiker]

From here: http://www.solidsignal.com/satellite/directv_dish_antenna_types.asp
I'm a bit lost for why the 22 kHz tone would be switched off.
It should be on for the 119 and 110 SATs.
I also don't see any reason the Spaun SMS-51602NF 4x16 couldn't be cascaded off the Zinwell WB616.
What am I missing here?
Now I can see there may be some signal loss with all of these outputs, so there may need to be an amp added.

Tom: if you use a splitter with only one port power passing, doesn't it need to be on the powered multiswitch?
Why not just use a splitter with power passing on both ports?The Spaun is powered so I don't know why an amp would be needed. When I installed the Phase II+ it came with a 4x4 MS that hung off the back of the dish. I did not use that 4x4 since the Spaun was designed to replace it (22KHz switch off) or be used in series (22KHz switch on). After the Phase III came out, it had integrated LNB/MS and could also be used with Spaun (22 KHz switch on). The Spaun has been a trouble free MS for years and it was worth the big bucks I paid for it. I wish I could afford the WB Spaun version.

[veryoldschool]

The Spaun is powered so I don't know why an amp would be needed. When I installed the Phase II+ it came with a 4x4 MS that hung off the back of the dish. I did not use that 4x4 since the Spaun was designed to replace it (22KHz switch off) or be used in series (22KHz switch on). After the Phase III came out, it had integrated LNB/MS and could also be used with Spaun (22 KHz switch on). The Spaun has been a trouble free MS for years and it was worth the big bucks I paid for it. I wish I could afford the WB Spaun version.
The "powered" part is for the LNB drive voltage and the "amp" would be for the RF signal being split to twenty outputs [there is no free lunch, so the RF signal must be low if all outputs are tuned to the same channel].
As I was googling the splitter I found this: http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1156488&postcount=14 :lol:

[hiker]

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=WB68
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882250002

Splitter:
http://cgi.ebay.com/3-Skywalker-2-Way-Splitters-5-2300-MHz-DBS-DirecTV-RG6_W0QQitemZ140171241528QQihZ004QQcategoryZ32847Q QcmdZViewItem
Is this the same - link (http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=SP2WAPHL)

[veryoldschool]

Is this the same - link (http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=SP2WAPHL)
They say it is power "passive" which I think is a type and should be "passing".
I have one [and why I posted it] and from the link I posted:
"These high-quality splitters feature an extremely durable, long lasting design.
Diode Steered, Dual Ground Passes DC and IR from Outputs to Input (will not pass DC from input to output). When used on a satellite TV system these can be used after the receiver to split for multiple TVs."

All of the labels in the photos show the same item.

[hiker]

That's the one Doug Brott recommended here (http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1156338&postcount=4). It looks the same as the one on eBay but the listing does not mention the manufacturer part number. Do you know the P/N of the one you got?

Solid Signal tech guy is telling me not to use splitters and not to cascade the WB68 from the WB616 but instead to use 2 WB616's cascaded. He tells me other methods can be problematic.

Edit:
The eBay splitter is Skywalker SKY23302D and the one at solid signal referred by Doug Brott is SP2WAPHL. So it looks like they are not the same.

[techrep]

That's the one Doug Brott recommended here (http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1156338&postcount=4). It looks the same as the one on eBay but the listing does not mention the manufacturer part number. Do you know the P/N of the one you got?

Solid Signal tech guy is telling me not to use splitters and not to cascade the WB68 from the WB616 but instead to use 2 WB616's cascaded. He tells me other methods can be problematic.

Edit:
The eBay splitter is Skywalker SKY23302D and the one at solid signal referred by Doug Brott is SP2WAPHL. So it looks like they are not the same.

He is being protective of a company position to "defend" the public.

You have two animals to be concerned with here, the squirrel (RF signal) and the rabbit (switching voltage.) Either can have problems with wayward cascades or parallel splits.

Follow VOS's advice and you can arrange what you desire.

Note: Animal analogy compliments of VOS.

!devil12: Shoulder :angel:

[bsnelson]

This may not be much help, but I'm running a dual WB68 (with power pass splitters) config with a 2x8 passive Spaun MS hung off of two of the outputs. It works fine for the 101 birds. Since I only need 101 for the receivers I have on the Spaun, this config is OK for me.

Brad

[veryoldschool]

That's the one Doug Brott recommended here (http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1156338&postcount=4). It looks the same as the one on eBay but the listing does not mention the manufacturer part number. Do you know the P/N of the one you got?

Solid Signal tech guy is telling me not to use splitters and not to cascade the WB68 from the WB616 but instead to use 2 WB616's cascaded. He tells me other methods can be problematic.

Edit:
The eBay splitter is Skywalker SKY23302D and the one at solid signal referred by Doug Brott is SP2WAPHL. So it looks like they are not the same.
This is on the label of mine [that work] SKY23302D
The other(s) may be the company's own stocking number.

[Tom Robertson]

Tom: if you use a splitter with only one port power passing, doesn't it need to be on the powered multiswitch?
Why not just use a splitter with power passing on both ports?
Power passing on both ports should work just as well.

Cheers,
Tom

[AntAltMike]

The only reservation I have about using a splitter that passes power on both ports is that there can be an undesirable current flow between the ports, like if one port is being fed 13 volts and the other 18 volts, or if someone working on one of the two coaxes introduces a short.

For applications that require line powering, you can buy "diode steered" splitters like the ones that veryoldschool recommended that preclude interaction between the ports. The only problem they, themselves might introduce is that the diodes have a forward drop of about half a volt, so with real long coaxes, there is a slight risk that they might result in the 18 volt leg dropping the roughly 15.5 volt crossover point.

Unfortunately for the old timers here, the "power passive" installers now outnumber us "power passing" types. I am more inclined to consider a power blocking splitter to be "passive" because it precludes DC loading and sourcing, but arguing with people about the application of those terms is a lost cause and I have surrendered.

As far as shutting off the 22KHz tones is concerned, I haven't followed the specific applications here, but if the multiswitch that drives the LNBs has its own internal 22KHz source, I suppose there is always the possibility that if a strong 22KHz tone is introduced into the switch on the input side, it might be out of phase with the one being internally generated, and if it leaked through, it might tend to cancel it. I remember that when the first Phase 3 dishes were introduced, some of them had trouble when connected to RCA receivers because they developed a more robust 22KHz than did the other receivers of that era and, especialy when it was cold outside, the overly robust 22KHz signals would leak into the other circuit paths and toggle them to the wrong satellite.

[veryoldschool]

The only reservation I have about using a splitter that passes power on both ports is that there can be an undesirable interaction between the ports, like if one port is being fed 13 volts and the other 18 volts, or if someone working on one of the two coaxes introduces a short.

For applications that require line powering, you can buy "diode steered" splitters that preclude interaction between the ports. The only problem they, themselves might introduce it that the diodes have a forward drop of about half a volt, so with real long coaxes, there is a slight risk that they might result in the 18 volt leg dropping the roughly 15.5 volt crossover point.

Unfortunately for the old timers here, the "power passive" installers now outnumber us "power passing" types. I am more inclined to consider a power blocking splitter to be "passive" because it precludes DC loading and sourcing, but arguing with people about the selection of those terms is a lost cause and I have surrendered.
I think you missed the location for these.
The conrtol voltage is the same on both [all] ports and should never change.