View Full Version : Because of the HR21, I sent my installation man on his way.
Well after reading the posts here and finding out that the HR21 does not have OTA tuner, I told him that I do not want the HR21 and would like the HR20 and he said all they have now is the new HR21.
I apologized to him, and he said just call Directv and tell them what happened and they will let you go to Best Buy and purchase the HR20 and will give you credit for it on your bill.
I went to Best Buy and I got the last 2 HR20s and the HR21 was right next to them on the shelf. I really rely on the OTA feature because I record all my local channels with it and have never had a missed recording or a bad picture due to bad weather.Also since I purchased these I assume the are still leased?
What happenes if one of them breaks down?
Thanks for any info
Vid53
hilmar2k
10-27-07, 12:57 PM
Yup, still leased. If one breaks, and you need a replacement, you will get whatever they have avaialable.
Well after reading the posts here and finding out that the HR21 does not have OTA tuner, I told him that I do not want the HR21 and would like the HR20 and he said all they have now is the new HR21.
I apologized to him, and he said just call Directv and tell them what happened and they will let you go to Best Buy and purchase the HR20 and will give you credit for it on your bill.
I went to Best Buy and I got the last 2 HR20s and the HR21 was right next to them on the shelf. I really rely on the OTA feature because I record all my local channels with it and have never had a missed recording or a bad picture due to bad weather.Also since I purchased these I assume the are still leased?
What happenes if one of them breaks down?
Thanks for any info
Vid53
What you pay at a retail store like Best Buy is the lease purchase price. You don't own them. Since DirecTV is going to give you credits for the lease purchase price you spent at Best Buy, they remain leased. If you really wanted to purchase and own them in would cost nearly $800 for each HR20. The plus with leasing is if newer technology becomes available, you can swap it out (like Cable TV). If it has become defective they will send you another. You can get the protection plan to cover you past the 90 day warranty when you activate with DirecTV.
So after 90 days if it goes down I have to pay for the repair?
Or Directv replaces it for free with whatever is avalible?
So after 90 days if it goes down I have to pay for the repair?
Or Directv replaces it for free with whatever is avalible?
it gets replaced for free with whatever they have within the 90 days I believe at no cost, and if you have the protection plan, after 90 days no charge for replacement.
Michael D'Angelo
10-27-07, 01:11 PM
So after 90 days if it goes down I have to pay for the repair?
Or Directv replaces it for free with whatever is avalible?
You will have to pay $19.95 for shipping. But DirecTV will not charge to replace it.
If you have the protection plan there is no charge.
You will have to pay $19.95 for shipping. But DirecTV will not charge to replace it.
If you have the protection plan there is no charge.
With the plan, they send a tech to replace it. Also, besides the s/h, without the plan, you'll a begin a new 2-year contract when you activate the replacement
Actually, under the lease plan you arguably get a 90 day warranty and nothing more. DirecTV MAY send you a refurbished unit for S&H, but they are not required to. I wouldn't expect they're going to swap them out for new models.
If you want broken units covered after purchase you need to join their protection plan which is about $72/year (5.99 month minimum 1 year commitment).
People have reported that they will replace units if you don't have the protection plan but charge about $20 shipping and then bind the customer to a new two-year commitment for programming.
Check the documents on the DirecTV website for more information.
Sorry but I'm late to this "HR21 No OTA" party ...what the heck? Why?
jhillestad
10-27-07, 08:24 PM
According to all the dtv shills here (and you know who you are) the no ota is "no big deal". There have been discussions about the no ota on this tuner just to be drowned out by the shills who say its really not needed anyway... I for one cannot believe dtv would remove such a vital feature but the shills say your tv has a tuner... but the shills forgot about the ability to record the show! but since they get their locals in mpeg4 they have declared it no big deal for the rest of us.
Red Raider
10-27-07, 09:36 PM
Actually, under the lease plan you arguably get a 90 day warranty and nothing more. DirecTV MAY send you a refurbished unit for S&H, but they are not required to. I wouldn't expect they're going to swap them out for new models.
If you want broken units covered after purchase you need to join their protection plan which is about $72/year (5.99 month minimum 1 year commitment).
People have reported that they will replace units if you don't have the protection plan but charge about $20 shipping and then bind the customer to a new two-year commitment for programming.
Check the documents on the DirecTV website for more information.
Why would you pay for something you already paid for (even if it is a lease) and then the equipment fails?? If you leased a car and it failed, you would not pay for it. You would pay for your routine maintenance.
spartanstew
10-27-07, 10:36 PM
According to all the dtv shills here (and you know who you are) the no ota is "no big deal". There have been discussions about the no ota on this tuner just to be drowned out by the shills who say its really not needed anyway... I for one cannot believe dtv would remove such a vital feature but the shills say your tv has a tuner... but the shills forgot about the ability to record the show! but since they get their locals in mpeg4 they have declared it no big deal for the rest of us.
Why is it needed? Why should they have 3 basically identical boxes when they can have 2 with OTA capability and 1 without? Why do you think they removed a vital feature? Isn't that feature still on the HR20's?
It's the bashers that keep saying "they're not making any more HR20s". "They're forcing us to use HR21's". "Why would D* manufacture a box that doesn't have every feature, I personally want". All basically because 1 poster mentioned he had received the wrong box on his order (and it's since been rectified). And when it happens to someone else (regardless of whether the customer eventually ends up satisfied), the chorus of bashers will be out in force again in every thread that mentions the HR21.
I suggest that in a couple of years when you attend college that you enroll in a business class and a logic class. Things will be much clearer then.
Why would you pay for something you already paid for (even if it is a lease) and then the equipment fails?? If you leased a car and it failed, you would not pay for it. You would pay for your routine maintenance.
Great comparison.
:rolleyes:
If a car breaks down you repair it, not replace it.
It's not a car it's a DVR.
gully_foyle
10-28-07, 01:40 AM
Sorry but I'm late to this "HR21 No OTA" party ...what the heck? Why?Rather than rehash all the reasons and rants, suffice it to say it's cheaper for D*. For more info, go read one of the several threads on the subject.
Sirshagg
10-28-07, 07:50 AM
Yup, still leased. If one breaks, and you need a replacement, you will get whatever they have avaialable.
They had better not replace an HR20 with an HR21 on a replacement!!!
wingrider01
10-28-07, 07:51 AM
Why would you pay for something you already paid for (even if it is a lease) and then the equipment fails?? If you leased a car and it failed, you would not pay for it. You would pay for your routine maintenance.
If you lease a car and it is out of warrenty you pay full cost for repairing the fault no matter what.
wingrider01
10-28-07, 07:54 AM
They had better not replace an HR20 with an HR21 on a replacement!!!
Doubt you have a choice, had a failed HR20-700 replaced with a HR20-100 did not get a choice, believe you get what they have available
Sirshagg
10-28-07, 07:57 AM
Doubt you have a choice, had a failed HR20-700 replaced with a HR20-100 did not get a choice, believe you get what they have available
HR20 (700) replaced with an HR20 (100) I can understand. But HR20 with HR21 - NO! Those are truely different models with different capabilities. That would not be right.
Stuart Sweet
10-28-07, 08:23 AM
To get back to topic, if you are looking for an HR20 I would try Costco. My local store had a whole pallet of them yesterday.
Herdfan
10-28-07, 08:37 AM
I do have to wonder what is going to happen when installers are sent on their way after bringing 21's gets to be more than an isolated practice. The installation companies aren't going to be one bit happy since they don't get paid.
Will they put pressure on D* to keep a supply of 20's in the pipeline?
As for being able to get one locally, I think that ship has sailed. My BB has none (and to my knowledge, never had the 100's) and CC had one left after I picked up spare.
Doug Brott
10-28-07, 09:17 AM
It's unfortunate that this had to happen. I'm sure we haven't heard the last word on this.
Well I for one use my local OTA's whenever possible, it offers the best pictures and I have many options available to me.
Regular analog cable
Locals via DirecTV
Locals via OTA
Plus OTA offers channels I don't get via DirecTV, lots of local affiliates plus PBS stuff. One big reason is rain fade, my trusty OTA always is there when DirecTV suffers from rain fade. Stupid, stupid decision on DT's part ...
Well I for one use my local OTA's whenever possible, it offers the best pictures and I have many options available to me.
Regular analog cableRegular analog cable is not one of the options with the new receivers.
To get back to topic, if you are looking for an HR20 I would try Costco. My local store had a whole pallet of them yesterday.Costco is one of those "you snooze, you lose" things. My local Costco went back to hawking E* this week. They dropped their BluRay offering too. ;)
Doug Brott
10-28-07, 09:34 AM
Costco is one of those "you snooze, you lose" things. My local Costco went back to hawking E* this week. They dropped their BluRay offering too. ;)
True. Costco gets some good deals and they pass those deals along to their customers (15% markup on everything they buy). However, they tend to cycle through what they actually have because the supplies dry up.
Coffey77
10-28-07, 09:37 AM
One thing you're all forgetting, DIRECTV is NOT required to supply you with OTA. They bring you programming via a Satellite which includes a DISH and a RECEIVER. Nowhere does it say anything about an OTA. They provided one as a feature for everyone's benefit but it doesn't benefit their service in any way! It uses CSR resources when people have trouble with OTA and it uses their $$ when they have to install it within a receiver.
Don't get me wrong, I love my OTA and did a LOT of work to make it work. I would have hated to ask any installer to go through what I went through to get it up and running and if I had, the cost for it would have been outstanding.
jhillestad
10-28-07, 09:39 AM
Why is it needed? Why should they have 3 basically identical boxes when they can have 2 with OTA capability and 1 without? Why do you think they removed a vital feature? Isn't that feature still on the HR20's?
It's the bashers that keep saying "they're not making any more HR20s". "They're forcing us to use HR21's". "Why would D* manufacture a box that doesn't have every feature, I personally want". All basically because 1 poster mentioned he had received the wrong box on his order (and it's since been rectified). And when it happens to someone else (regardless of whether the customer eventually ends up satisfied), the chorus of bashers will be out in force again in every thread that mentions the HR21.
I suggest that in a couple of years when you attend college that you enroll in a business class and a logic class. Things will be much clearer then.
I suggest you read the part of the post where he says Best Buy was out of HR20 and had plenty of HR21 , gee I wonder which units people want ? college boy.
Coffey77
10-28-07, 09:41 AM
I suggest you read the part of the post where he says Best Buy was out of HR20 and had plenty of HR21 , gee I wonder which units people want ? college boy.
Those last two HR20s were probably sitting there for 5 months now. If they had gotten HR20s and HR21s at the same time and then you noticed the HR20s were going faster... Your statement would have some value. IMO, 1 out of 10 people will know to look for OTA - the other 9 will look at the color and deceide if they want Black or Silver...
One thing you're all forgetting, DIRECTV is NOT required to supply you with OTA.OTA isn't required, but there is an expectation that the HD receivers can receive OTA. The H21 and HR21 are a radical and unannounced departure from this precedent.
The HR10 can receive digital OTA. The HR20 can receive digital OTA. The HR21 sucks until such time as DIRECTV offers all LIL in all markets (and I'm not talking just HD).
I'm guessing that the x21 series was a show of good faith that D* was working hard on delivering LIL across the board. Its time hasn't come yet.
Coffey77
10-28-07, 09:58 AM
OTA isn't required, but there is an expectation that the HD receivers can receive OTA.
The word "expectation" is nice but no one should expect anything unless it's printed right on there. If it says - "built in OTA HD Tuner" then I expect it to receive OTA. People stop there most of the time and think that if they hook up ANY antenna to this that they will get OTA channels. There's a lot more to it, as many people are finding out. They automatically blame DIRECTV because their OTA doesn't work... yet they live 60 miles from any broadcast antenna and bought the little rabbit ears from the store on the shelf that said HDTV Antenna "expecting" it to work right... I have a TV that displays HD but does not have an internal tuner. Should I expect it to have one because it can display HD? The HD tuner is an option for my TV and I'm required to get a tuner for it - being satellite, cable, PC, or OTA or all three or none.
Herdfan
10-28-07, 10:02 AM
One thing you're all forgetting, DIRECTV is NOT required to supply you with OTA. They bring you programming via a Satellite which includes a DISH and a RECEIVER.
True. They are a satellite company. But they also are now offering content via my internet connection. How does that fit into the DISH and RECEIVER model? How is that any different than content via my antenna?
The only difference is that they must believe that they will get more customers via a VOD offering than an OTA offering. But neither one has anything to do with satellite other than the Guide data.
fhedrick
10-28-07, 10:14 AM
I get 29 local DT channels OTA and only 4 from D*. I want to be able to receive OTA through my DVR. If D* can't or won't continue to provide it, I will go where it is available.
I do have to wonder what is going to happen when installers are sent on their way after bringing 21's gets to be more than an isolated practice. The installation companies aren't going to be one bit happy since they don't get paid.
Will they put pressure on D* to keep a supply of 20's in the pipeline?
As for being able to get one locally, I think that ship has sailed. My BB has none (and to my knowledge, never had the 100's) and CC had one left after I picked up spare.
Well according to the shills, we (pro OTA) should be such a small minority as to be unnoticed. People that want OTA are a very small percentage of D* customer base according to them. I have asked them repeatedly what the source of this FACT is. So far I have not gotten any response at all. Just continued negative banter.
Milominderbinder2
10-28-07, 10:23 AM
Reasons for OTA:
1. Better resolution.
2. Better color depth.
3. Get the other digital channels (21 in Chicago)
4. PBS shows real HD.
5. Sometimes better HD locals via OTA.
- Craig
True. They are a satellite company. But they also are now offering content via my internet connection. How does that fit into the DISH and RECEIVER model? How is that any different than content via my antenna?
Bingo. Hit the nail right on the head.
The only difference is that they must believe that they will get more customers via a VOD offering than an OTA offering. But neither one has anything to do with satellite other than the Guide data.
:D
I guess I am one of the shills you are talking about...
Not sure who you are replying to, since many have used "shill". My defination of "shill" is anti OTA. Not Pro OTA... You seem pro...
They automatically blame DIRECTV because their OTA doesn't work... yet they live 60 miles from any broadcast antenna and bought the little rabbit ears from the store on the shelf that said HDTV Antenna "expecting" it to work right... I have a TV that displays HD but does not have an internal tuner. Should I expect it to have one because it can display HD? The HD tuner is an option for my TV and I'm required to get a tuner for it - being satellite, cable, PC, or OTA or all three or none.
Excuse me, but this sounds more like a personal problem on their part rather than a reason against (or to not expect) OTA.
Cheers :D :D :D
tonyquan
10-28-07, 10:30 AM
Why is it needed? Why should they have 3 basically identical boxes when they can have 2 with OTA capability and 1 without? Why do you think they removed a vital feature? Isn't that feature still on the HR20's?
It's the bashers that keep saying "they're not making any more HR20s". "They're forcing us to use HR21's". "Why would D* manufacture a box that doesn't have every feature, I personally want". All basically because 1 poster mentioned he had received the wrong box on his order (and it's since been rectified). And when it happens to someone else (regardless of whether the customer eventually ends up satisfied), the chorus of bashers will be out in force again in every thread that mentions the HR21.
I suggest that in a couple of years when you attend college that you enroll in a business class and a logic class. Things will be much clearer then.
I'm the poster who received the wrong box as you mentioned. If what you're saying is true and the HR20 is still being made, then why not let users who know they need OTA ask DirecTV for a HR20, and have their request properly fulfilled, on the first try, without resorting to going to a store and paying out of pocket? That's all I had issue with.
I feel no need to bash the HR21. It's a fine box for most people, but I needed something else. Under the current system, if I need an HR20 specifically, it's pure luck on whether I can pick one up. Of all my local stores that sell DirecTV, only one even had an HR20, and there was literally only one HR20 left in stock (the one I bought). What would you have advised me to do if I was completely unable to find an HR20?
As consumers, we should be demanding good customer service from the companies which sell products to us. I see it literally as being a duty of a good consumer, so that others who know less become more informed. If the companies refuse to respond to customer needs in reasonable ways, we need to warn others about what occurred and take our business elsewhere if necessary. We should act as advocates for other consumers, not as advocates of the companies. If customers do that, they have no one to blame but themselves for companies which devalue customer service.
Doug Brott
10-28-07, 10:30 AM
Enough of the word shills .. It's clearly a derogatory word and directed at a group of fellow posters. The name calling must stop.
Thank You
The word "expectation" is nice but no one should expect anything unless it's printed right on there....The HD tuner is an option for my TV and I'm required to get a tuner for it - being satellite, cable, PC, or OTA or all three or none.The difference is that you knew what you were getting when you bought an HD-ready TV. There wasn't a procession of HD-ready televisions that had ATSC tuners and they removed them when you bought yours.
Are you expecting that the automotive industry is going to silently remove analog broadcast radio from their sound systems now that there are a few HD radio broadcasts?
Those who have D* HD receivers and are upgrading expect to get the same or better features and performance. Those who have been on the fence about jumping from cable or E* would expect that they would get the same features at D*.
While you're racking up big D* apologist points, I don't think you're providing a very convincing argument.
Enough of the word shills .. It's clearly a derogatory word and directed at a group of fellow posters. The name calling must stop.
Thank You
OK fair enough. Would you happen to have the information that indicates the very small percentage of the D* customer base wanting OTA?
Coffey77
10-28-07, 10:44 AM
I see the argument here because there are a good ammount of educated people here that know or want to know about OTA. We are a small base of DIRECTV customers compared to the Millions they currently have. Basically you and I represent about 10,000 customers each and even that figure is small. By 10,000 each - I mean that we could guess that 10,000 agree with me and 10,000 agree with you and so on....
Doug Brott
10-28-07, 10:48 AM
OK fair enough. Would you happen to have the information that indicates the very small percentage of the D* customer base wanting OTA?
The information that I have is from (1) and installer that tells me that the number of folks that don't want OTA vs the number of folks that do is 40:1 and (2) from from a DIRECTV contact that based on the HR20 user base (and network replies), the number of ATSC customers is a very low percentage.
You can take it for what it's worth. Clearly OTA is important to some people and in some cases it's a downright necessity if you want to receive HD.
RobertE
10-28-07, 11:14 AM
OK fair enough. Would you happen to have the information that indicates the very small percentage of the D* customer base wanting OTA?
I'm the one that stated the 40:1 ratio of those that have and use OTA in my market. That number is being very, very generous to OTA.
Just this past week I've disconnected two attennas for customers making the switch to the HR20 because they had OTA diplexed in. It was not worth their time to have a seperate line run for it. In their specific locations Chs 3 (NBC) & 19(CBS) are a PITA to pull in. They were happy that they didn't have to fool with OTA anymore.
They were not the least bit concerned about loosing the sub channels. They were not the least bit concerned about rain fade.
They were very happy to gain the big 4 via sat plus the 70+ HD channels.
Tom Robertson
10-28-07, 11:42 AM
I was given the go ahead to announce that DIRECTV will have a solution: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=106995
I'm going to close this thread too so we can continue in one place.
Cheers,
Tom
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