How long will E* continue to support OTA?

[EXTACAMO]

This current problem of the 622/722 having OTA issues after the release of 4.46 has started me thinking. How long will E* continue to expend valuable resorces to support something that they make no money off of? Consider this, the DVR/satellite receiver is turning into another device like the cell phone where everything you want to do with it costs you money. Weather its VOD, DOD, PPV or what ever. Just like cell phones, weather it be music, ringtones, nav. you pay extra for it. Could there be an OTA fee in the near future? I heard the new D* HR21 has no ATSC tuner. Has D* already reached this conclusion?

[brettbolt]

This current problem of the 622/722 having OTA issues after the release of 4.46 has started me thinking. How long will E* continue to expend valuable resorces to support something that they make no money off of? Consider this, the DVR/satellite receiver is turning into another device like the cell phone where everything you want to do with it costs you money. Weather its VOD, DOD, PPV or what ever. Just like cell phones, weather it be music, ringtones, nav. you pay extra for it. Could there be an OTA fee in the near future? I heard the new D* HR21 has no ATSC tuner. Has D* already reached this conclusion?
Interesting... great topic.

I think it would be very difficult for them to justify adding an OTA fee because the signal does not originate from them. Plus, they already have many additional fees. Customers can (and often do) reach a limit as to how many fees they are willing to pay. Add adding a new OTA HD fee might put many (including me) past the point they are willing to pay.

I have been an E* customer since 1997. I am already tempted to get an HD Tivo for locals, which I can get for $8.33 a month for a 36 month committment. So if they add an OTA HD fee, I'll return my leased 622 to them when my contract is up on Jan. 1 and go back to my 501 (plus HD Tivo). Then I would save from paying $6 lease, $6 HD Enabling, $6 locals, and $5.98 DVR fee.

[DStroyer]

I tend to think that the more people who can receive HD locals OTA, the happier E* is. The amount of resources that they have to expend to fix OTA issues probably pales in comparison to the expense/resources necessary to get everybody's HD locals onto the satellites.

Providing an OTA connection may also give the company a bargaining chip during carriage negotiations. At least, that's how it may work in the future for the cable companies. Comcast, etc. starts distibuting STB's that come with an OTA connection, and then they don't have situations you read about in the news where a company that owns a bunch TV stations has their channels pulled from the cable company's lineup until the deal is worked out.

[DBS Commando]

Making OTA available to everyone enables E* to not run out and get as many HD locals as they possibly can get and hog bandwith on the sats. Instead, they can concentrate on getting HD locals to the major cities such as NYC, Boston, Atlanta, LA, SF, etc.

It would be dumb for E* to charge customers for something that's already benefiting them and saving them money. Trying to pump even more money out of it would be just stupid on their part.

[Kent Taylor]

This current problem of the 622/722 having OTA issues after the release of 4.46 has started me thinking. How long will E* continue to expend valuable resorces to support something that they make no money off of? Consider this, the DVR/satellite receiver is turning into another device like the cell phone where everything you want to do with it costs you money. Weather its VOD, DOD, PPV or what ever. Just like cell phones, weather it be music, ringtones, nav. you pay extra for it. Could there be an OTA fee in the near future? I heard the new D* HR21 has no ATSC tuner. Has D* already reached this conclusion?

The word is "whether".

[TNGTony]

Some cell companies aren't verizon and do not charge for all those features. Why? Because it makes customers happy and they will not leave the cell company.

Cincinnati Bell has free music playing/downloading and free ring tones.

Dish has "free" OTA. Remember one must subscribe to locals via Dish to get the EPG and DVRs without EPGs aren't as easy to use. In my case the local channels are only viewed by OTA so the local channel fee is an OTA fee for me!

See ya
Tony

[Ron Barry]

Well as I see it.. Usually features are not taken away once given so I don't see a fee being tacked on, however, given the extra cost associated with providing OTA I could see the Sat providers deciding it is not worth the extra cost and phasing it out...

For one I hope not.. but it is always a possibility.

[DStroyer]

Well as I see it.. Usually features are not taken away once given so I don't see a fee being tacked on, however, given the extra cost associated with providing OTA I could see the Sat providers deciding it is not worth the extra cost and phasing it out....

Phasing it out in favor of what? Loading up their satellites with HD locals, and taking up space that could be used for national HD channels?

I think, in the coming years, OTA will actually turn out to be a much more important thing for the satellite and cable companies to provide their customers. In my opinion :D

[Kent Taylor]

Well as I see it.. Usually features are not taken away once given so I don't see a fee being tacked on, however, given the extra cost associated with providing OTA I could see the Sat providers deciding it is not worth the extra cost and phasing it out...

For one I hope not.. but it is always a possibility.

With OTA, a dual tuner receiver turns into a three tuner receiver. I see that as a feature that Dish would be happy to continue. Being able to record three HD programs at once is a selling point; OK leasing point.

[bairdjc]

:lol: yeah D* doesn't seem to think OTA is all that great as their new top of the line receiver doesn't support it (there is NO hardware for it :lol: )

The hardware probably costs very little but it's a huge selling point for them...

[Ron Barry]

With OTA, a dual tuner receiver turns into a three tuner receiver. I see that as a feature that Dish would be happy to continue. Being able to record three HD programs at once is a selling point; OK leasing point.

I totally agree.. but HD locals comes with a local channel fee and takes out one external source that has been problematic at times. I hope Dish sees the value OTA provides and like I said I don't see it being removed from existing product lines but I do hope that it will always be included in their receivers.

[kenglish]

Even the Cable industry is talking about adding a DTV tuner to their STBs, so people can get all their locals via OTA. That would help alleviate the BW problems of carrying all locals and multicasts.

[Ron Barry]

Good... that will put pressure for the Sat guys to keep theirs. :D

[Stewart Vernon]

I would love to see the next generation of Dish receivers have a 2nd OTA tuner even. I wouldn't leave them for lack of it... but it would be cool to have a 2-OTA + 2-SAT tuner DVR with ability to use all of them at the same time.

[brettbolt]

I would love to see the next generation of Dish receivers have a 2nd OTA tuner even. I wouldn't leave them for lack of it... but it would be cool to have a 2-OTA + 2-SAT tuner DVR with ability to use all of them at the same time.
If you're willing to wait for the next generation of Dish receivers in hopes that they'll do that, then you are more patient than me.

Today I received my HD Tivo Series 3 with 2 OTA HD tuners. So now I have a total of 3 OTA HD tuners and 2 Sat tuners. That should cover most situations!

The Tivo 3 year plan costs me $8.33 a month -- so its a little more than the $5.00 I'm saving by dropping Dish satellite locals.

However, for the extra $3.33 Tivo allows me to transfer shows to my laptop PC or other portable device. I don't need to buy a special 'Pocket Dish'. And I dont need to pay them $39.99 to add additional storage. (I can use any eSATA drive). Plus I can control it and schedule it from my PC.

Anyway, if Dish does decide to drop OTA from future receivers, it might mean even more customers for Tivo. My Tivo has 2 card slots for digital cable (one for each tuner). If I eventually decide to switch to cable I could use the Tivo instead of the cable company's DVR.

But I still like my 622, and I hope Dish does not follow D*'s lead in removing OTA.

[Tuckster]

I'm confused by the folks that still use tivo. I was thinking with E*, you had to use their HDDVR ??? Can you put a tivo in the line and do your own DVR'ing ???

[DStroyer]

As you probably already know, you can't use Tivo with satellite. BUT, you can have both a Tivo and an Dish DVR, have lots of harddrive space, and delegate duties between the two. Use the Dish DVR to record Dish-only channels (pay channels like HBO, TNT, FX, etc.), and hook rabbit ears (or roof antenna, if you need it) up to the Tivo and use the Tivo to record just OTA HD channels.

[brettbolt]

As you probably already know, you can't use Tivo with satellite. BUT, you can have both a Tivo and an Dish DVR, have lots of harddrive space, and delegate duties between the two. Use the Dish DVR to record Dish-only channels (pay channels like HBO, TNT, FX, etc.), and hook rabbit ears (or roof antenna, if you need it) up to the Tivo and use the Tivo to record just OTA HD channels.

Really, you can have both? LOL Check my post (3 posts up from here). I really wish that my Vip622 worked as well as my Tivo. The Tivo is a class act -- each feature works as expected and its a pleasure to use. Trick play, fast forward, rewind, single frame reverse, and all other features work as advertised. I can schedule online, download free 'TivoCasts' online, access low cost movie rentals, and listen to hundreds of internet radio stations.

What I like the most about the Tivo is the picture quality and the native pass through. In other words, it displays the resolution that the TV station sends you without conversion. Everything looks so much clearer on the Tivo than the Vip622!

Ideally Tivo would support usage with Dish Network, but the Series 3 HD doesn't (only cable via 'cablecards'). But its no trouble switching TV inputs between the Tivo and the Vip622. Plus I now have a total of FIVE tuners that can record at the same time.

[TNGTony]

Um... the 622 records the bit-rate the satellite and OTA broadcasters sends and plays it back as recorded. The 622 does not have an encoder so it is incapable of doing otherwise.

See ya
Tony

[DStroyer]

Really, you can have both? LOL Check my post (3 posts up from here).

Yeah. Your post may have given people like Tuckster the impression that you were using the Tivo with Dish connected to it. Hence Tuckster's question.

[theoak]

[QUOTE=brettbolt;1246640
...
I have been an E* customer since 1997. I am already tempted to get an HD Tivo for locals, which I can get for $8.33 a month for a 36 month committment. So if they add an OTA HD fee, I'll return my leased 622 to them when my contract is up on Jan. 1 and go back to my 501 (plus HD Tivo). Then I would save from paying $6 lease, $6 HD Enabling, $6 locals, and $5.98 DVR fee.[/QUOTE]

This is a bit of an old thread, so I hope that I get a reply.

I have been thinking of going DISH HD via the 18 month commitment. I currently just have the $30 package.

Would my costs be:

$29.99 (America 100)
$6 (HD Lease)
$20 (HD Package - free for the first 6 months)
$5.98 (DVR Fee)

I get my locals (ABC, CBS, FOX, UPN/CW, NBC, PBS) great OTA.

Giving a total of 41.97/61.97 (after 6 months and assuming no price increase between now and then - I do hear one is coming in Feb 08 though).

Am I missing something?

Second Question:

I have a 301. Can I use that with the 722?

Thanks ...

[kb7oeb]

Dish already charges to use the OTA tuner, there is no charge if you have the HD package or you have to pay the $7 enabling fee. They charge you again for locals if you want guide data.

Before I activated my 622 it listed itself as a 622-SD and displayed message saying that I needed to call dish to activate the HD feature when trying to tune OTA.