View Full Version : HR-20 771 error cured by reset?
circuit1
10-29-07, 05:19 PM
I recently got an HR-20 700 receiver and 5 lnb dish. The unit so far has worked great except for one problem. Every few days I will get the 771 error searching for signal on a few of my HD channels, mostly networks like ABC,CBS,NBC.
However once I do a reset everything will go back to normal. But then in a few days it will happen again. I have checked all of my signals and they are very good, in the 90's. However satellite 119 is in the 60's to 70's. I did a system test and both tuners and everything else checks fine.
It is really strange because it will work perfect and then randomly will have this error come up. I checked all my connections and everything is good. Could this be a hardware or software problem?
I know this question has been asked to death, I just thought others might be having the same issue resolved with the reset fix.
I'm getting the same thing (771 errors), but it seems to only happen at night, and only on the new MPEG4 national HD channels. Also, I have two 6x8 multiswitches, and they're fed seperately by splitting each cable from the dish. The installer did the installation, and I'd suspsect the install, but it seems to work fine in the day time.
dodgeboy
10-29-07, 07:01 PM
I also have the same issue. It appears with mine that one of the tuners completely goes to lunch (771 on every channel), and the other tuner remains fine. I can verify this by recording something and trying to tune with the other tuner.
It happens almost once a day to me, and also seems to be most likely to occur at night or the early morning. I've missed a ton of recordings because of this issue (can only record one thing at a time with one working tuner).
The issue seems to occur more often with some of the newer CEs, but does happen with the national 18a as well.
Dave
circuit1
10-30-07, 04:59 AM
Yes mine also seems to happen mostly at night. The picture will start to pixelate more and more then finally I will lose the picture completely.
When you restart your HR20, you are temporarily removing DC signaling voltages from the LNB on the dish. These voltages are otherwise present 24/7, even in standby. So these could be LNB problems. But that's just one of many possible causes of this troublesome issue. Other possible causes: a bad BBC, a loose/bad connector on one line, DC switching voltage drops on coax runs which require the addition of a polarity locker (http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=HRPID1422) to WB68(s) or a powered multi-switch (WB616) (http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=WB616), or a bad tuner in the HR20.
You can easily eliminate the BBC, by simply swapping BBC's and seeing if the problem moves to the other tuner. The next step would be to swap the coax lines to see if that moves the problem to the other tuner. If so, remove and check all your connectors on that line for for corrosion and re-tighten securely with a 7/16" wrench. Installations using one or more WB68's, lengthy cable runs, or cable runs with copper-clad steel RG6 center conductors are candidates for polarity lockers or WB616's. It's also handy to be able to swap other receivers into any location showing a problem, either others that you own or one borrowed from a friend, to isolate problem tuners in the HR20.
It goes without saying that all relevant tp signal strengths on all relevant satellites to your particular installation should be in the 80's and 90's before digging into all these other possible problems, since having a properly aligned dish is step one, but not necessarily the only step in resolving these reception problems.
kwalker962
10-30-07, 09:40 AM
When you restart your HR20, you are temporarily removing DC signaling voltages from the LNB on the dish. These voltages are otherwise present 24/7, even in standby. So these could be LNB problems. But that's just one of many possible causes of this troublesome issue. Other possible causes: a bad BBC, a loose/bad connector on one line, DC switching voltage drops on coax runs which require the addition of a polarity locker (http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=HRPID1422) to WB68(s) or a powered multi-switch (WB616) (http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=WB616), or a bad tuner in the HR20.
You can easily eliminate the BBC, by simply swapping BBC's and seeing if the problem moves to the other tuner. The next step would be to swap the coax lines to see if that moves the problem to the other tuner. If so, remove and check all your connectors on that line for for corrosion and re-tighten securely with a 7/16" wrench. Installations using one or more WB68's, lengthy cable runs, or cable runs with copper-clad steel RG6 center conductors are candidates for polarity lockers or WB616's. It's also handy to be able to swap other receivers into any location showing a problem, either others that you own or one borrowed from a friend, to isolate problem tuners in the HR20.
It goes without saying that all relevant tp signal strengths on all relevant satellites to your particular installation should be in the 80's and 90's before digging into all these other possible problems, since having a properly aligned dish is step one, but not necessarily the only step in resolving these reception
problems.
Im having the same problem. A tech just yesterday changed out my BBC's, replaced my side car dish with the slimline dish with all new cables. Last night on abcHD got 771 until I rebooted and worked fine afterwards. Only thing left is my HR20-700 or zinwell.
Same issue here, and I really think that it is a software issue. I have only seen it on my HR-20 since the last software release. Mine gets the 771 error sometimes on SD channels as well, and when this has happened, my two R15's have no issue with the same channels that trip up the HR20. That is what leads me to think it is software vs. a LNB...
dodgeboy
10-30-07, 12:46 PM
The problem stays with the tuner when I swap BBC and/or the input coax from the sat. Rebooting always fixes it for approximately a day. I have consistent 95s on 103b. Sure seems like a software problem to me.
Dave
racingminnieb
10-30-07, 01:25 PM
I have the same problems with the HR21. It is good for a day and then it loses its signal on both tuners. Today i came home and reset isn't even working.
Simpleton24
10-30-07, 01:39 PM
The problem stays with the tuner when I swap BBC and/or the input coax from the sat. Rebooting always fixes it for approximately a day. I have consistent 95s on 103b. Sure seems like a software problem to me.
Dave
Dave,
Following up on what Stew in Fla. said, make sure your cables and connections are good first. Your problem is exactly what happened to me and this is how I fixed it.
It's been over 2 weeks now and I have not had one problem.
Kevin
http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1232166&postcount=96
jmschnur
10-30-07, 01:43 PM
I hav e similar problems. A web reset of services seems to cure this as well-but it takes a while.
raven56706
10-30-07, 02:13 PM
its funny to see that everyone has this problem but how about anyone that has fixed the problem.... does anyone have a solution?
racingminnieb
10-30-07, 02:28 PM
I have the same problems with the HR21. It is good for a day and then it loses its signal on both tuners. Today i came home and reset isn't even working.
I just completely unplugged the thing for like 10 mins. now it is working again. I swear I have nothing but trouble with this thing. It is becoming more than just irritating. The D* tech will be here on the 7th of Nov. hopefully he has an answer or D* is losing a customer.
dodgeboy
10-30-07, 03:41 PM
Dave,
Following up on what Stew in Fla. said, make sure your cables and connections are good first. Your problem is exactly what happened to me and this is how I fixed it.
It's been over 2 weeks now and I have not had one problem.
Kevin
http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1232166&postcount=96
Thanks for the suggestion. It's pretty cheap, so I picked one up. Hopefully it works...
Dave
circuit1
10-31-07, 05:57 AM
I feel that it is a software problem because it seems like it happens consistently at night and after a few days. You would think that if it was a hardware problem that it would happen all the time or more often.
I don't understand how a reset would fix a hardware, connection, or signal strength related problem. That's the part that has me stumped, if the reset didn't fix the problem then I would be more inclined to thing it was one of those three problems listed.
You would think that if this many people are having this problem that Directv would have a solution by now.
I feel that it is a software problem because it seems like it happens consistently at night and after a few days. You would think that if it was a hardware problem that it would happen all the time or more often.
I don't understand how a reset would fix a hardware, connection, or signal strength related problem. That's the part that has me stumped, if the reset didn't fix the problem then I would be more inclined to thing it was one of those three problems listed.
You would think that if this many people are having this problem that Directv would have a solution by now.
You've never said if there's a WB68 in your system, but you should be willing to spend $50 to see if this corrects your problems when it has worked for so many other people with your exact symptoms. It is much more likely that there is some temperature-related issue with either the WB68 or the LNB than that there is some "clock" in the HR20 firmware. Perhaps you don't use a WB68. You may still need a powered multi-switch.
Although the following comment refers to experience with the WB68 in MDU installations, typically involving longer runs, you can take what's said here for what it's worth:
Here's a quote below from a professional installer on another internet forum; he's apparently had lots of negative experiences with the receiver-powered Zinwell WB68 multi-switch and equally positive experiences with the self-powered Zinwell WB616 multi-switch. BTW, SatPro.com currently has the WB616 switch for sale at $127.99, so I will probably try changing out the WB68 if the tech visit from DirecTV next Monday is inconclusive. Ironwood Communications has promised me to send out one of their best techs on Monday. I will let everyone know how this plays out, as I really want to get my local HD channels completely functional and reliable; I would also like to help other forum members, too. Thanks again for your insights!
"All WB68's ought to find homes in the nearest dumpster. Period. I had over 80 of them in MDU setups in and around Seattle (2 different companies) that were causing TONS of problems. ALL were replaced by WB616's starting over 3 months ago. ZERO problems since (771 errors on multiple channels, multiple satellites). If you can get one to work properly, more power to you. If you can 'signal lock' the WB68 with yet more equipment, same. But when you get problems, toss the junk and go with the 616; more $ but no hassle. That's the bottom line.
I've had long discussions with both DirecTV engineers and their contract installer/engineers, and the basic reason they still use the WB68 is simply cost. If DirecTV gives it out for free, kinda get a clue. But keep a close eye on it, and if/when you start seeing wacky problems, toss it out."
circuit1
10-31-07, 01:02 PM
I am only running one receiver from the satellite so I am not sure why I would need a switch. As far as the LNB, why do you think it will work for a few days and then stop working all of a sudden and then start working again as soon as I do a reset. What effect would a reset have on the LNB or temperature?
I am only running one receiver from the satellite so I am not sure why I would need a switch.(?).....
Both of the recommended devices generate independently AC powered DC signaling voltages/tones to control the internal multi-switch in the LNB. The thought is that because of cable lengths or because of some as yet unexplained power supply inadequacy of the DC voltages/tones output from the HR20, these devices cure this problem in many cases. (Either a combination of an AC-powered polarity locker and a WB68 or an AC-powered WB616, which is a few dollars more, but which will have fewer inter-connecting cables.)
.....As far as the LNB, why do you think it will work for a few days and then stop working all of a sudden and then start working again as soon as I do a reset. What effect would a reset have on the LNB or temperature?
From the earlier post:
When you restart your HR20, you are temporarily removing DC signaling voltages from the LNB on the dish. These voltages are otherwise present 24/7, even in standby.
There may be some as yet not fully understood issue with the LNB's internal multi-switch, such that when it is initially powered-up it works for awhile, and then becomes unreliable based on what it's getting sent from the HR20. It may be temperature-related. I'm not thoroughly familiar with how these internal LNB multi-switches are designed, and they are probably not identical as between the 4 different manufacturers of LNB's for the AU9-S Slimline dish.
All of the above may not apply in your case. You may yet have some HR20 tuner(s) problem. What I am saying is that providing DC signaling voltages from an external source seems to have corrected this problem for a lot of posters. At this point, we don't have a complete explanation of exactly why this seems to be a problem for some people with normal cable runs and not others. I'm using 100' runs of good quality copper-clad steel RG6 at two different installations with no problems. One other poster had problems with shorter lengths.......
circuit1
11-01-07, 02:51 PM
Thanks for all your help, I am going to keep an eye on it for a while and see how things progress. Hopefully it is something simple. If not then back it goes for a replacement.
circuit1
11-03-07, 11:07 AM
Well I contacted Directv and they believe that it is a bad tuner. They are sending me a replacement unit out and I should have it in a couple days. I will let everyone know if that corrects the problem. Hopefully they will send me the new HR-21, that black finish will match my setup.
Yes, it will be interesting to see what you get, because if you get an HR20, and especially if you get a NEW HR20, when you obviously don't need OTA capability, there's going to be a lot of eyebrow raising going on here....
circuit1
11-03-07, 12:56 PM
You got that right. Another thing I thought was strange is my brother just got a new HR-20 receiver and his unit looks a little different. I have an HR-20 700 and he has an HR-20 100. The round blue lights on the front are a little different and his unit is solid on top, no grill on top for heat to be released, his heat grills are all on the side of his receiver.
I compared the two and my unit runs hot. If you put your hand on top of mine you can really feel the heat. While his is cool to the touch.
Also mine says it was made in China while his was made in Mexico.
I had the 771 error about a month ago and made D* send out a Tech supervisor. The 771 error was there, but he INSISTED that my DVR was bad. After much wrangling (i lost all my programming) he swapped it out and it worked fine...until now.
I just get the persistent 771 error again. I can't believe that my SECOND unit is also faulty, especially after working flawlessly for so long. I'm so aggravated at this point, i don't know what to do.
circuit1
11-06-07, 07:52 PM
I received a replacement HR-20 700 receiver from Directv today. It is a reconditioned unit but it looks brand new. I hooked it up and so far it is working fine, but only time will tell. Hopefully this one will work better and I will keep you guys informed of it's progress.
If anyone else is having this problem I would call Directv and request a new receiver. For all the money they make the least they can do is make sure that their equipment works.
justanotherguy
11-06-07, 08:25 PM
I recently got an HR-20 700 receiver and 5 lnb dish. The unit so far has worked great except for one problem. Every few days I will get the 771 error searching for signal on a few of my HD channels, mostly networks like ABC,CBS,NBC.
However once I do a reset everything will go back to normal. But then in a few days it will happen again. I have checked all of my signals and they are very good, in the 90's. However satellite 119 is in the 60's to 70's. I did a system test and both tuners and everything else checks fine.
It is really strange because it will work perfect and then randomly will have this error come up. I checked all my connections and everything is good. Could this be a hardware or software problem?
I know this question has been asked to death, I just thought others might be having the same issue resolved with the reset fix.
You never mention it explicitly, but from the surrounding remarks I assume you are talking about your MPEG4 locals. I am getting the 771 error on my OTA locals.
I also believe this is a software problem. Ever since I took the 0x1B4 update, my OTA locals have been flaky and approaching useless. I had to go through the OTA setup to get some of them back in guide. Now I have to restart nearly daily. This started the day I took the update. This cannot be blamed on LNBs or multiswitches. It can however be blamed on bad software.
Happened just now. Signal stength 77%. Before rebooting I simply changed channels. Fixed it. This is bad software. :nono2:
I sure do feel sorry for the people who paid for their HR20s.
todd
racingminnieb
11-07-07, 10:50 AM
I was receiving the 771 fault on my receiver everyday between 11 and 3. The signal would come back at night until about 9 or 10 then it would go out again. I had to go on a trip so while I was away I had a friend place my reciever in his house since his seemed to be working fine and he was unable to get it to work. When I returned the D* tech came and replaced my HR21-700 with a new identical unit. So far no problems. It is foggy today so I really don't expect it to be a problem right now. Also I haven't hit the magic 11:00 hour. I will keep you informed.
gregftlaud
11-07-07, 10:56 AM
i got the 771 too a couple of days ago. just restarted my hr20-700 and it has been working fine since. it's most likely a software issue.
Mr. Big
11-07-07, 01:50 PM
I'm also getting the 771 error but it's only with the new HD channels. I've scheduled a service call for this Saturday and am hoping that it's a multiswitch problem because I have HR20 set up the way I want it. I really want this to work because I actually like the HR20 because it'll do things that the HR10 won't such as having all video outputs active at one time and passing Dolby Digital through HDMI. I do think that the TIVO interface is a bit more intuitive but I'm getting used to the HR20 interface and feel that it'll become 2nd nature in short time.
Eric The Red
11-07-07, 03:45 PM
I had the 771 error about a month ago and made D* send out a Tech supervisor. The 771 error was there, but he INSISTED that my DVR was bad. After much wrangling (i lost all my programming) he swapped it out and it worked fine...until now.
I just get the persistent 771 error again. I can't believe that my SECOND unit is also faulty, especially after working flawlessly for so long. I'm so aggravated at this point, i don't know what to do.
Jagg, I have the exact same problem and they switched out my unit as well. It worked perfectly for about 2 weeks, then poof, same problems. Is your issue on HD locals or all HD?
techdimwit
11-09-07, 11:58 AM
We're having the same problem and it seems we get the 771 message on random channels - some HD, some SD. A reset fixes it for awhile. I don't want to trade the receiver we have for a refurbished one or an HR21 because we need OTA for our HD locals.
Did I read somewhere that it's a bad thing to reset by using the red button?
racingminnieb
11-09-07, 04:18 PM
I was receiving the 771 fault on my receiver everyday between 11 and 3. The signal would come back at night until about 9 or 10 then it would go out again. I had to go on a trip so while I was away I had a friend place my reciever in his house since his seemed to be working fine and he was unable to get it to work. When I returned the D* tech came and replaced my HR21-700 with a new identical unit. So far no problems. It is foggy today so I really don't expect it to be a problem right now. Also I haven't hit the magic 11:00 hour. I will keep you informed.
Ok, the 11:00 hour passed with no problem and it has been 2 days and still working. Hopefully it stays that way. Keep your fingers cross for me!!
m0ondoggy
11-09-07, 05:14 PM
Dave,
Following up on what Stew in Fla. said, make sure your cables and connections are good first. Your problem is exactly what happened to me and this is how I fixed it.
It's been over 2 weeks now and I have not had one problem.
Kevin
http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1232166&postcount=96
Did you have to get an extra WB68 or did it work with just one?
Simpleton24
11-09-07, 05:26 PM
Did you have to get an extra WB68 or did it work with just one?
I used my original WB68 (1). The polarity locker is installed between the gounding blocks and the multiswitch.
It's been almost 4 weeks now and I still have not had any problems since I installed this. I truly believe it is a tuner problem and have a feeling it may be related to newer receivers, possibly a bad batch of tuners. Should probably do a poll to see which models are having these problems and what the build date is. Mine was installed Sept. 18 and was a new 700 unit.
circuit1
11-10-07, 11:19 AM
Well I got my replacement four days ago and so far it has operated perfectly. I know it will take some more time to really prove itself, but so far so good. It still runs really hot like my first one, but no other issues.
I've encountered this problem, too. Not often, but it happens. It has occurred both on my HR20-700 and, most recently, last night one on my HR20-100s.
Last night was the first time it ruined a recording. I had set the Lakers game to record on FSNW-HD. We went out to dinner and when we returned I went to watch the game and found that the tuner that the HR20-100 used to record the game had gone "771" and had thus far recorded almost two hours of black. The other tuner was fine.
Now, this isn't an answer or a solution, but something that has made the inconvenience a bit more tolerable. I have discovered (at least for me) that rebooting the HR20 isn't necessary to recover from this error. All that is required is going into Set-up and running the "Sat & Ant > View Signal Strength" application. Just view a couple of sats on both tuners and then exit and you should find that your signal has returned. Much quicker than a RBR.
This has worked for me every time, including last night where the signal was out for over 90 minutes.
Mr. Big
11-10-07, 12:34 PM
I had the service technician come out today to see about my 771 problem and he did all of his usual tests on the roof and came to the conclusion that my HR 20-100 was at fault, but he only had HR21's in his truck. I had to call D* to set up another service call and as long as it's noted that I need an HR20, they will bring one out (hopefully). I did, though, find a wacky workaround to get my HD channels to work and I don't know if this will work for everyone --- I found that if I tuned into two or three SD channels in a row and then go to the HD channel I want to watch, it'll always tune in. The 771 problem only occurs if I try going from one of the new HD channels directly to another. Go figure.
I've had the 771 message pretty much for about 2 months now--on and off of course. IIRC, it's ALWAYS been on tuner 2 with this HR20 (my only one).
This AM's installment involved Tuner 2....and ESPN-HD was the "untuneable channel" when I flipped the TV on. Now, correct me if I'm wrong....but isn't ESPN-HD STILL MPEG-2 (meaning it's NOT on one of the new sats???) I tried hitting channel up to go to Universal HD (74) but that still brought a 771 message. The other tuner was recording at the time (channel 630--an SD channel--with no problems). I instinctively just hit "2" for my local D* MPEG-4 WCBS...and that tuned in fine---then I was able to go BACK to 73....with no problems.
WTF !??!!
As an aside---the only other receiver I have on this dish/MS setup (Zinwell 6x8) is an HR10-250....which has had no problems tuning to any channels/satellites that I have seen. I wish I had run upstairs to see if ESPN-HD was coming in on the HR10 at the same time that I was having a problem on the HR20....but in my hurried pissedoffedness to FIX the 771 message I didn't even think of it :(
As an aside, I recently installed 2 new BBC's that I had requested through D*'s website.....and swapped cables into tuner 1/2.
:mad:
trekologer
11-11-07, 12:47 PM
I am also having a 771 problem with the HR20-100S which I got for the bedroom. I have a HR20-700 in the living room that I am not having any problems with. I also did not have problems with the D10 that the HR20-100S replaced.
Here's the twist... I am getting 771 on tuner 2 only. I do not have tuner 2 connected (I don't have a 2nd drop installed yet since I don't yet have a multiswitch). The unit says that tuner 2 is connected AND has signal on some transponders.
The MR20-700 also does not have the second tuner connected (yet) but it correctly indciates no signal on tuner 2. I have tried different locations throughout my house and get the same thing. Anyone have ideas?
m0ondoggy
11-11-07, 01:12 PM
I am also having a 771 problem with the HR20-100S which I got for the bedroom. I have a HR20-700 in the living room that I am not having any problems with. I also did not have problems with the D10 that the HR20-100S replaced.
Here's the twist... I am getting 771 on tuner 2 only. I do not have tuner 2 connected (I don't have a 2nd drop installed yet since I don't yet have a multiswitch). The unit says that tuner 2 is connected AND has signal on some transponders.
The MR20-700 also does not have the second tuner connected (yet) but it correctly indciates no signal on tuner 2. I have tried different locations throughout my house and get the same thing. Anyone have ideas?
I'm beginning to wonder if these problems are heat related with the HR20. What you are seeing is tuner 1 "bleeding" into tuner 2, I've seen it myself on some of these boxes, but only whey they are hot. Try shutting down your box for an hour, plug it back in and see if it still shows the problems. Every time I have had that happen was when the box was hot.
racingminnieb
11-11-07, 03:07 PM
I am also having a 771 problem with the HR20-100S which I got for the bedroom. I have a HR20-700 in the living room that I am not having any problems with. I also did not have problems with the D10 that the HR20-100S replaced.
Here's the twist... I am getting 771 on tuner 2 only. I do not have tuner 2 connected (I don't have a 2nd drop installed yet since I don't yet have a multiswitch). The unit says that tuner 2 is connected AND has signal on some transponders.
The MR20-700 also does not have the second tuner connected (yet) but it correctly indciates no signal on tuner 2. I have tried different locations throughout my house and get the same thing. Anyone have ideas?
Do you have any type of in line signal amp installed on any of your receiver? If so that could be your problem. I had identical problems until I removed the in line amp installe on a reciever in a bedroom.
m0ondoggy
11-12-07, 11:08 AM
I ordered a Sonora today after having the problem again this morning. I ALWAYS have this problem after a power outage.
I'm going to put these unit's on UPS's as well.
rolastro
11-13-07, 11:19 AM
Hello All,
First I just want to say as a first time poster that I appreciate all those who've contributed info on this board. I've been lurking for a couple weeks and your postings have helped me greatly. Hopefully I can return the favor.
I have a HR-21 that I've been running into the 771 issue with since I received it two weeks ago. After calling tech support, they provided me with a "workaround" that seems to resolve this 100% of the time, although temporarily. In other words this workaround does not prevent this error from re-occuring but it does allow the channel to come in.
I know this sounds strange so bear with me: When the 771 error appears, press channel up twice and then channel down twice to go back to the original channel - the picture should then come in. The key is that the timing has to be such that once channel up is pressed, the channel info appears for a split second before you press channel up again. The same goes for channel down. If you just press them twice without letting the channel info for the next channel appear on the screen it has no affect. It's hard to explain but once you play with it you'll see that if your timing is right, you'll always get the channel back. Although this has worked for me 100% of the time, the time it takes for me to get it right has varied from 5 seconds to fiddling with it for 5 minutes (like last night during Heroes on NBC- aaaargh).
According to the support rep, she said something to the affect that doing this "resets something and sends a new request for a signal". The experts on this board can chime in on what exactly is happening but all I know is that this works for me as I said %100 of the time even if it may take a few minutes to get it right. I asked her what the possible causes were & she couldn't really say.
Hope someone finds this useful until a permanent solution can be found.
circuit1
11-14-07, 12:53 PM
Well, I have used the replacement receiver I got from Directv and it is doing the same thing, only worse. The reset does not cure the problem. I did everything possible and again they determined that it is the receiver. First they said I might have a corrupt hard drive so I formatted it and still the same problem.
Directv is sending me out another unit and I should have it Friday. I told them I did not want another HR-20 700 so maybe I will receive an HR-20 100 or HR-21. I just think the HR-20 700's are not reliable units. I have the same dish hooked up to an HR-20 100 which is supposed to be the new model, and it runs cooler and I have not had one problem with it.
Also, I think Directv is sending out these reconditioned units without checking them first. I get FedEx deliveries to my business on a regular basis and every time the guy has at least one or two Directv satellites on his truck. Looks like they are doing alot of exchanging.
circuit1
11-16-07, 02:47 PM
Well FedEx dropped off the replacement receiver yesterday. This time I received a HR-20 100. I opened the box and it is an Hr-20 100 however this unit is black not silver. I got it hooked up and so far so good, I will give it a week and let you guys know.
I'm getting it on my brand new HR20-700. I've seen it twice now recording OTA HD content. Happens right after the recording stops.
Weird thing is the channel is going great, very good signal. Then I bring up the guide and the audio continues, but the mini-window is black. Exit guide, sound and picture normal, yet the error message continues until I change channel.
Eric The Red
11-18-07, 04:40 PM
I ordered a Sonora today after having the problem again this morning. I ALWAYS have this problem after a power outage.
I'm going to put these unit's on UPS's as well.
Keep me posted on your results. I ordered one as well after the same problem happened again today during the Packer game.
dodgeboy
11-20-07, 10:12 PM
Hello All,
First I just want to say as a first time poster that I appreciate all those who've contributed info on this board. I've been lurking for a couple weeks and your postings have helped me greatly. Hopefully I can return the favor.
I have a HR-21 that I've been running into the 771 issue with since I received it two weeks ago. After calling tech support, they provided me with a "workaround" that seems to resolve this 100% of the time, although temporarily. In other words this workaround does not prevent this error from re-occuring but it does allow the channel to come in.
I know this sounds strange so bear with me: When the 771 error appears, press channel up twice and then channel down twice to go back to the original channel - the picture should then come in. The key is that the timing has to be such that once channel up is pressed, the channel info appears for a split second before you press channel up again. The same goes for channel down. If you just press them twice without letting the channel info for the next channel appear on the screen it has no affect. It's hard to explain but once you play with it you'll see that if your timing is right, you'll always get the channel back. Although this has worked for me 100% of the time, the time it takes for me to get it right has varied from 5 seconds to fiddling with it for 5 minutes (like last night during Heroes on NBC- aaaargh).
According to the support rep, she said something to the affect that doing this "resets something and sends a new request for a signal". The experts on this board can chime in on what exactly is happening but all I know is that this works for me as I said %100 of the time even if it may take a few minutes to get it right. I asked her what the possible causes were & she couldn't really say.
Hope someone finds this useful until a permanent solution can be found.
Thanks for the input. Unfortunately, I believe all this is doing is switching to the other tuner in the box. Like mine, it sounds like one of your tuners goes to lunch after having the pixellation problem for a long period of time. I can "correct" my issue by doing what you describe. However, the only reason it fixes it is because it starts using the other tuner. If I record something and try to tune with the other tuner, it fails consistently on every channel.
Even after purchasing the Sonora and WB68 (things I shouldn't have had to spend money on to make this tuner work as it should have from the factory), I still get the error every few days. The longest it's gone is about 5 days without the problem. The shortest time span without the issue is about 24 hours. So instead of a consistent 24 hours between the issue, I now get it sporadically every 24-96 hours or so.
I sincerely hope this issue is on DTV's radar and that they develop a fix for it soon. I'm ready to go back to my HR10-250 and give up the MPEG4 HD...
Dave
Eric The Red
11-21-07, 09:25 AM
Dave, when you say "fails consistently on every channel" does that include standard definition channels, HD nationals, HD locals, etc?
I assume it does, but I'm just confirming because my issue is limited to non-OTA HD locals.
dodgeboy
11-21-07, 10:57 AM
Dave, when you say "fails consistently on every channel" does that include standard definition channels, HD nationals, HD locals, etc?
I assume it does, but I'm just confirming because my issue is limited to non-OTA HD locals.
Yes. Once the tuner dies (requiring reboot to fix), every single channel gets a 771 error. When I go to the signal strength meter, I get 0 on every transponder of every sat on that tuner. The other tuner still gets 95's on just about everything. I don't let it stay in that state long enough to see if the other tuner eventually dies, but I kind of assume it would.
Dave
Eric The Red
11-21-07, 11:29 AM
Yes. Once the tuner dies (requiring reboot to fix), every single channel gets a 771 error. When I go to the signal strength meter, I get 0 on every transponder of every sat on that tuner. The other tuner still gets 95's on just about everything. I don't let it stay in that state long enough to see if the other tuner eventually dies, but I kind of assume it would.
Dave
Have you had this happen on multiple receivers? If it's just been on 1 receiver, why not request a replacement?
dodgeboy
11-21-07, 12:58 PM
Have you had this happen on multiple receivers? If it's just been on 1 receiver, why not request a replacement?
This is still my first receiver. However, I've seen in many many posts that people with the same problem have had their receivers swapped out several times only to have the problem come back within a few days. That leads me to believe that there's a pretty good chance the same thing will happen to me. It seems like a software issue to me, since a reboot fixes it. I'd rather not have to go through the trouble of re-entering all of my season passes for nothing...
Dave
I am also having the 771 problem but only on 1 of my HR20s, the other 2 work fine.
Here is the weird thing:
If I bring any of my other HR20s into the room where the screwed up one is they have the same problem, so i figured bad cable. I switch sat 1 and sat 2 around thinking that the problem will follow the cable to sat 2 input but the problem remains on sat 1 input. So I have the problem on whichever cable goes into sat 1 no matter which cable or which HR20 i use. What???
Earl, do your contacts know anything about this?
gully_foyle
11-23-07, 03:08 AM
I am also having the 771 problem but only on 1 of my HR20s, the other 2 work fine.
Here is the weird thing:
If I bring any of my other HR20s into the room where the screwed up one is they have the same problem, so i figured bad cable. I switch sat 1 and sat 2 around thinking that the problem will follow the cable to sat 2 input but the problem remains on sat 1 input. So I have the problem on whichever cable goes into sat 1 no matter which cable or which HR20 i use. What???
Earl, do your contacts know anything about this?And when you take the screwed up one to the other room, it's OK? You may want to go find the multiswitch, figure out what goes where (by disconnecting and seeing what loses signal), labelling the cables and ports, and then swapping. Perhaps a bad port?
You might also swap inputs on the multiswitch to see if the problem goes to another room or something. Again, label stuff before you move it.
And when you take the screwed up one to the other room, it's OK? You may want to go find the multiswitch, figure out what goes where (by disconnecting and seeing what loses signal), labelling the cables and ports, and then swapping. Perhaps a bad port?
You might also swap inputs on the multiswitch to see if the problem goes to another room or something. Again, label stuff before you move it.
Correct, its only a problem in one room. I have tried so many things to try to fix the problem. Changed BBCs, switched cables around, tried a new WB68 and even had a tech put in a new dish. No matter what we try the problem always occurs in the same room on input 1. I agree with the idea that this stb may not be getting a strong enough signal. I am going to try the powered switch and see if that make a difference.
This problem has spread to all 4 of our HR20s. I dont understand how it is that this isnt a problem for everyone. With all the troubleshooting I have done it seems it has to be a software issue.
VOLBEAT
11-25-07, 12:59 AM
I had the same problem the other day on my HR21...........and I started a thread about it, but it happened that day,off and on, and after a couple calls to customer service that were a complete waste of time, I came here, and haven't been able to try swapping the cables or anything else, because it has subsided for the moment. After reading this thread, I fully expect it to happen again.
CouchTater
11-25-07, 11:11 AM
I am having the same problem since they added the new HD channels. It is very random, sometimes the channels work sometimes I get the 771 message. sometimes it will clear up after a second sometimes not. I have found for some odd reason if I go to setup and run the signal meter test then I will begin receiving the channel however this is quite annoying and doesn't help when trying to record programs. Any solutions? Thanks!
I suspect that directv has no idea this problem is occuring and we will never get a fix.
HOdaddy
11-25-07, 10:47 PM
I was having the same problem until I did some rewiring. I took the cables off of the surge protector and installed the second converter. Then I tightened all the connections as tight as possible bare handed. Know every channel snaps on like it should. Yeah!!!!
I had only put the converter on the first tuner, did not use the second much. My signals were fine.
Maybe I just got lucky.
Mike
dodgeboy
11-25-07, 10:57 PM
I was having the same problem until I did some rewiring. I took the cables off of the surge protector and installed the second converter. Then I tightened all the connections as tight as possible bare handed. Know every channel snaps on like it should. Yeah!!!!
I had only put the converter on the first tuner, did not use the second much. My signals were fine.
Maybe I just got lucky.
Mike
I wish I had your luck. I literally replaced everything between my tuner and the dish (cables, connectors, grounding blocks, multiswitch, power inserter), and the problem persists.
Dave
I wish Earl would do something about this. We can complain all we want to directv, and I have, but without the help of someone on the inside it wont matter.
I wish Earl would do something about this. We can complain all we want to directv, and I have, but without the help of someone on the inside it wont matter.
You do realize that Earl isnt on the inside... right?
reweiss
11-26-07, 05:04 AM
I started getting the 771 issues last Wednesday and have had to reboot my HR20-700 3 different times. Fortunately I caught these problems when I woke up, but I fear sooner or later I am going to lose a program I have set to record.
D** needs to find the cause of the power surge and find a solution. It sounds like everyone here has replaced each of the different components and still have the problem come back. I guess the next question is is this happening on all models of receivers?
Eric The Red
11-26-07, 08:06 AM
I ordered a Sonora today after having the problem again this morning. I ALWAYS have this problem after a power outage.
I'm going to put these unit's on UPS's as well.
Moondoggy, any update on how the Sonora is working?
Schnej2
11-26-07, 08:13 AM
Gents - first let me say a big thanks for all these posts because like all of you this issue is driving me crazy. I have one HR20-700 and two H20's. I removed my WB68 switch just to get that out of the way but this 771 error happens to all my three receivers when it happens. Basically I lose all Signal to the 103b Sat then I either change channels or re-run the sat setup and it comes back for awhile while I regain the Sat 103b with sig strength in the high 80's. I have the original HD side-car dish and this started happening right after the last HR20 software update....again this just affects my MPEG4 HD channels. Sounds like a software problem in the HR20 is causing LNB multi-switch issues? Not an expert but this is a WIDE spread issue.:mad:
Getting the 771 message as well, starting this past weekend. Never had a problem before. I have the HR20-700.
You do realize that Earl isnt on the inside... right?
Of course, I just meant it is easier for him to get to someone on the inside who can actually fix the issue.
Gents - first let me say a big thanks for all these posts because like all of you this issue is driving me crazy. I have one HR20-700 and two H20's. I removed my WB68 switch just to get that out of the way but this 771 error happens to all my three receivers when it happens. Basically I lose all Signal to the 103b Sat then I either change channels or re-run the sat setup and it comes back for awhile while I regain the Sat 103b with sig strength in the high 80's. I have the original HD side-car dish and this started happening right after the last HR20 software update....again this just affects my MPEG4 HD channels. Sounds like a software problem in the HR20 is causing LNB multi-switch issues? Not an expert but this is a WIDE spread issue.:mad:
Welcome to the club. :nono2:
Did removing the WB68 do anything for you?
Schnej2
11-26-07, 10:45 AM
Removing the WB68 did nothing...that was the only switch/splitter I had in my configuration....currently only need 4 runs until I add another DVR.
There is a theory that the recivers arent getting enough power from the dish without a powered switch. I wonder if anyone who has switched to a powered multiswitch has been abe to fix these issues?
listerfiend
11-26-07, 11:11 AM
I am having the same problem on 2 of my HR20-100s. No issues with the HR21-700. Funny thing is the HR21-700 has only one line and is the furtherest from the multiswitch (not powered).
reweiss
11-26-07, 12:43 PM
There is a theory that the recivers arent getting enough power from the dish without a powered switch. I wonder if anyone who has switched to a powered multiswitch has been abe to fix these issues?
I never had this issue when I had a powered switch.
But then again, I've had my HR20-700 since the end of January and at that time they installed the WB68 switch. I haven't had any problems until last week and then it happened 3 times.
I might have gotten the 771 before and not noticed. However, what are the odds of not seeing the 771 issue all year and then seeing it 3 times in one week?
AngryGeek
11-26-07, 05:22 PM
I got my HR20 installed on Nov 14, and had the 771 pretty much every day since. At first I thought it was a bad install. I have the installers returning this Friday.
My symptoms are pretty much the same as everyone else's. After I do a restart, everything works fine. But slowly one antenna goes bad, and then the problem migrates to both antennae.
This was one of the best football weekends of the year, and I didn't get to see any of it. I set the DVR each day, and by game time the DVR was dead. I have spent the weekend trying to fix this with no luck. I got the DVR so I wouldn't have to devote my energy to TV watching, I would control the thing.
But I have devoted so much energy to fixing it that it is no longer worth getting DirectTV. I have talked to a different CSR every night, and now I have a tech coming Friday to fix the problem. Until I read this thread, I thought I was crazy because I thought I was alone. I now know much more about DirectTV than any CSR or tech I have spoken to. Yet I still have no TV.
Is DirectTV even aware of this problem?
I got my HR20 installed on Nov 14, and had the 771 pretty much every day since. At first I thought it was a bad install. I have the installers returning this Friday.
My symptoms are pretty much the same as everyone else's. After I do a restart, everything works fine. But slowly one antenna goes bad, and then the problem migrates to both antennae.
This was one of the best football weekends of the year, and I didn't get to see any of it. I set the DVR each day, and by game time the DVR was dead. I have spent the weekend trying to fix this with no luck. I got the DVR so I wouldn't have to devote my energy to TV watching, I would control the thing.
But I have devoted so much energy to fixing it that it is no longer worth getting DirectTV. I have talked to a different CSR every night, and now I have a tech coming Friday to fix the problem. Until I read this thread, I thought I was crazy because I thought I was alone. I now know much more about DirectTV than any CSR or tech I have spoken to. Yet I still have no TV.
Is DirectTV even aware of this problem?
there is another thread in the CE forum that is about 11 pages long:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=102085
It sounds like certain csr's admit that there is a problem but the majority probably dont know about it. I suspect that as this problem spreads many more will know about it.
VOLBEAT
11-26-07, 08:50 PM
I'm getting pretty much the same symptoms as everyone else, but with my HR21. One CSR told me that I needed a wideband multiswitch. I'm not buying that, as there are people that have posted in this very thread that have a powered multiswitch, and still have the problem. I trust quite few of the people here more than a lot of the CSRs. Hate to say that, but it's the truth.
m0ondoggy
11-26-07, 08:58 PM
Moondoggy, any update on how the Sonora is working?
I used to have this problem every time we had a power outage, and it would happen on both of my HR20's at least once a week. I have not had this problem at all since installing the Sonora, and have had 2 power outages since. My channels change quicker now too.
amishland
11-26-07, 09:12 PM
I have HD channel dropouts as well. resets and checking signal strength seem to typically fix the issues.
I am looking at my signal meters right now and tuner 1 is flaky going in and out of not aquired and 90% on sat 119, and not aquired on 110.
and this was trying to watch MNF on ESPNHD 73
VOLBEAT
11-26-07, 10:23 PM
I used to have this problem every time we had a power outage, and it would happen on both of my HR20's at least once a week. I have not had this problem at all since installing the Sonora, and have had 2 power outages since. My channels change quicker now too.
To clarify what I have been told several times..........something like this Sonora is completely unnecessary if I'm only using 3 out of my 4 outputs on my slimline, correct? I have an HR21 and an old sd box in the bedroom, that's it.
tzphotos.com
11-26-07, 10:58 PM
Here is something to chew on. I have been having the 771 problem from day one and have yet to get DirecTV involved. I decided to hook up a "Acutrac22 PRO" signal meter. The battery was dead, which is ok because it can be powered by a satellite box.
The problem was the HR20 didn't feed power to the "Acutrac22 PRO" and it wouldn't work. I wonder if the HR20-100 isn't putting out enough voltage to correctly control the switch in the dish.
m0ondoggy
11-26-07, 11:04 PM
Here is something to chew on. I have been having the 771 problem from day one and have yet to get DirecTV involved. I decided to hook up a "Acutrac22 PRO" signal meter. The battery was dead, which is ok because it can be powered by a satellite box.
The problem was the HR20 didn't feed power to the "Acutrac22 PRO" and it wouldn't work. I wonder if the HR20-100 isn't putting out enough voltage to correctly control the switch in the dish.
That would explain why the sonora helps.
m0ondoggy
11-26-07, 11:07 PM
To clarify what I have been told several times..........something like this Sonora is completely unnecessary if I'm only using 3 out of my 4 outputs on my slimline, correct? I have an HR21 and an old sd box in the bedroom, that's it.
I don't think anyone knows the exact cause yet, so I'm not sure if your question can be answered definitively. Someone else will have to chime on on the possibility or wisdom of using a sonora without a WB68.
VOLBEAT
11-26-07, 11:35 PM
I don't think anyone knows the exact cause yet, so I'm not sure if your question can be answered definitively. Someone else will have to chime on on the possibility or wisdom of using a sonora without a WB68.
Well, a CSR from D was the one that told me I needed a 'wideband' multiswitch, and that's why I have been having the problem referred to in this thread. I told him I just have the multiswitch that is in the slimline because I only use 3 outputs off the dish, and he told me I would need a wideband multiswitch even If all I had was the HR21.........which I and a few people here think is bull, but hey, I'm not an expert.
m0ondoggy
11-26-07, 11:46 PM
Well, a CSR from D was the one that told me I neded a 'wideband' multiswitch, and that's why I have been having the problem referred to in this thread. I told him I just have the multiswitch that is in the slimline because I only use 3 outputs off the dish, and he told me I would need a wideband multiswitch even If all I had was the HR21.........which I and a few people here think is bull, but hey, I'm not an expert.
That is crap.
Eric The Red
11-27-07, 08:18 AM
Here is something to chew on. I have been having the 771 problem from day one and have yet to get DirecTV involved. I decided to hook up a "Acutrac22 PRO" signal meter. The battery was dead, which is ok because it can be powered by a satellite box.
The problem was the HR20 didn't feed power to the "Acutrac22 PRO" and it wouldn't work. I wonder if the HR20-100 isn't putting out enough voltage to correctly control the switch in the dish.
Interesting theory. A DirecTV guy hooked up a signal meter to my old HR-20 and found that the meter was working very erratically for him as well.
I just got my Sonora last night and hooked it up. No problems in the first 2 hours of viewing. However, the most I've gone without a problem is 2 weeks, so I'm not too excited yet (but hopeful).
I have the HR 20-100 (refurb) and this has just started happening, but on ESPN HD only. That is still MPEG-2, which has me even more confused.....
jboehle
11-27-07, 03:32 PM
I got an HR20-700 about 6 weeks ago that had this problem. DTV sent a tech out, he didn't check any signal strength, the dish, multiswitch, or anything, he replaced my box with an HR20-100. Unfortunately the HR20-100 has the same problem. I can't ever seem to get a good recording of Dexter, Weeds, or any other show on HBO or Showtime HD on Sunday or Monday evenings (CST time zone).
I had a DTV HD TiVo before this that was using the same wiring and had no problems. But the installer changed up some of my wiring when they originally installed the new 5LNB dish.
My wife is frustrated to no end with this new DVR, and wants me to just hook the old HD DTiVo back up.
I haven't called DTV back about the HR20-100 still having the 771 error because I just haven't found the time to sit on the phone with them. It's so frustrating to have to treat your DVR as a computer you have to maintain instead of an appliance that "just works".
I will be subscribing to this thread to see if anyone comes up with a permanent fix.
There's an accumulating body of evidence that the power supply units in the HR20's are in some cases inadequate to power the BBC's and the multi-switch inside the LNB when using normal length (<125') cable runs, particularly with copper clad steel center conductor RG6.
The Sonora is intended only to work in conjunction with the WB68 non-powered multi-switch. So you would need to either use the Sonora/WB68 combo or the WB616 powered multi-switch.
If you don't otherwise need the WB68 based on how many receivers you have, you won't get one for free from DirecTV. Even though it's a little more money, I would generally prefer the WB616 over the Sonora/WB68 combo for the reason of less cabling and more future expansion capability. I wouldn't be surprised to find as well that the WB616 is also a more reliable piece of equipment in the long-run than the WB68.
m0ondoggy
11-27-07, 06:52 PM
Is it me, or does it seem like this all started happening just before D10 went live? Is it possible that the BBC's have just enough extra resistance in them that they are dropping the voltage going up to the LNB's? It seems like this really didn't start happening until everyone started putting their BBC's on to get signal off of D10.
VOLBEAT
11-27-07, 07:30 PM
There's an accumulating body of evidence that the power supply units in the HR20's are in some cases inadequate to power the BBC's and the multi-switch inside the LNB when using normal length (<125') cable runs, particularly with copper clad steel center conductor RG6.
The Sonora is intended only to work in conjunction with the WB68 non-powered multi-switch. So you would need to either use the Sonora/WB68 combo or the WB616 powered multi-switch.
If you don't otherwise need the WB68 based on how many receivers you have, you won't get one for free from DirecTV. Even though it's a little more money, I would generally prefer the WB616 over the Sonora/WB68 combo for the reason of less cabling and more future expansion capability. I wouldn't be surprised to find as well that the WB616 is also a more reliable piece of equipment in the long-run than the WB68.
I have 2 runs of about 50 feet going to my HR21, and it is Belden 1694a, which has a solid copper center conductor, and do you also agree that I would have no need for any multiswitch or the Sonora, having only an HR21 and one other sd receiver?
smptc73
11-27-07, 08:25 PM
Folks-
Not to throw a monkey in the wrench, but consider the following:
A couple of weeks ago, my guide started acting flaky. But only with one OTA channel (Fox 9-1, HD OTA, ain't that ironic). Either the guide would show a different 9-1 in an adjoining geographic area in the same zip code, or 9-1 just wouldn't show up. Sometimes I'd have two 9-1's. I would have to reset the OTA set up for the channel to show up in the guide.
Then I started getting this 771 error for the same OTA channel. I haven't received this error on any other channel with this receiver (an HR20-700, BTW). The channel up then down method tunes the picture back in without the error.
Tonight I have a black recording for Bones (my wife's show - she's P-I-S-S-E-D). I'm unhappy because I checked the channel when I returned from work and it didn't show the error an hour earlier.
This isn't the first time this has happened, but I've usually caught it before a recording.
Seeing reports of this issue both OTA and satellite based channels seems to indicate that this isn't a multiswitch or a cabing to the dish problem. This is a software glitch in the control of the tuners. It's the only thing in common between two types of channels.
At this point, I'm changing all of the series recordings on 9-1 to the satellite HD channel, even though I prefer the OTA channel to minimize compression and to not have to worry about rain fade or weather issues.
In the mean time, it would be nice to see DirecTV put some speed on figuring this out.
On an editorial note *rant*, I started out optomistic about this box when I replaced my HR10-250. However, I've had to reset this box more times than I ever have in the life of my THREE other DTiVos in FIVE years of service. This puppy isn't as bad as the Comcast DVR I tried a two years or so ago, but this thing is far from perfect. It sure would be nice if DirecTV got their STUFF together with this receiver - it's hard for me to imagine that in 5 years, DVR development has advanced so much that the state of the art is less reliable than the T60 I purchased in 2002 (and still runs like a Swiss watch today, FWIW).
Even better is the fact that we've been locked in for 2 years based on activating the HR 20/21. I know that it costs money to launch satellites to get the new HD channels, but if you can't record them reliably, what was the point of spending extra money on the DVR and the HD service?
The worst part is that I've gone from whole heartedly recommending DirecTV to having to do so with reservations. We are seeing based their actions that DirecTV only cares about meeting the low standards of other services as opposed to providing a superior product, because the masses (most of whom have never had a DVR much less having been to this site) don't know any better. And they won't hold them to the standard of higher quality and reliability. These issues are their "growing pains" of the technology.
Eventually, many will eat the early termination fee and look for something better. *end rant*
Sorry for the OT commentary. Just had to get that off my chest.
Unfortunately, it appears that there are actually multiple issues, hardware and software, but not everyone is effected. I've got three HR20-700's, all running either current or CE firmware, <100' runs of CCS RG6, and I've never had a real problem with any of them. So we have a very confusing situation in troubleshooting these issues.
The hardware part beyond the receiver has a finite number of things that can be replaced or done differently. Since a great percentage of problems are installation-related, we have no choice but to check out these issues first.
I have 2 runs of about 50 feet going to my HR21, and it is Belden 1694a, which has a solid copper center conductor, and do you also agree that I would have no need for any multiswitch or the Sonora, having only an HR21 and one other sd receiver?
I would tend to agree, but there still possible problem areas which exclude the receiver hardware and firmware: BBC's, LNB problems with either the individual RF front ends, down converters, or the internal multi-switch, or dish alignment.
AngryGeek
11-28-07, 12:06 AM
In terms of troubleshooting-
I am in an MDU unit using an HR 20 without BBCs.
If I do a hard reset (unplug power cord), this problem doesn't occur. I can view any of the channels I subscribe to without difficulty as long as I am not recording any programming.
However once I start recording on one channel, and then watching another the problem starts occuring. If I try to change channels, many of the stations will get the 771 error. I can usually trick the machine into letting me view programming that was initially listed as 771. But I am only able to do do this in the first few hours of the problem occurring.
The problem is particularly bad if I try to record two programs simultaneously. Usually the program the receiver first tunes to is successful, but the second and all subsequent programming fails until a hard reset.
Based on this, I conclude (at least in my case) that the problem is related to the receivers. I don't think that one of the receivers is bad because the problem quickly migrates over to both receivers. Since I don't have BBCs installed, it isn't a BBC issue. It may be a bad IRD, I don't have a replacement IRD.
I have a tech coming Friday and hope they will replace the box and IRD.
Angry Geek
VOLBEAT
11-28-07, 12:10 AM
I would tend to agree, but there still possible problem areas which exclude the receiver hardware and firmware: BBC's, LNB problems with either the individual RF front ends, down converters, or the internal multi-switch, or dish alignment.
Oh I agree, I'm just getting a few confirmations on how ridiculous it was for a D CSR to tell me I needed a 'wideband multiswitch' on my system to resolve this. I know my dish alignment isn't a factor, but there are a few other things on the "process of elimination" list.
I think I would have asked that CSR whether or not that WB68 should be mounted with a left-hand or a right-hand screwdriver....
I too have been getting 771's on all of our HR20-700's (3). It is an intermittent problem but has been happening for over a year for us. I am considering going to the wb616 to see if that will cure it but I am not sure how to best power the unit since it is on my roof.
RA
I too have been getting 771's on all of our HR20-700's (3). It is an intermittent problem but has been happening for over a year for us. I am considering going to the wb616 to see if that will cure it but I am not sure how to best power the unit since it is on my roof.
RA
You don't have to put the WB616 on your roof. The coax runs from the dish can come down to the side of your house, where the multi-switch can be powered and grounded.
VOLBEAT
11-28-07, 09:00 AM
I think I would have asked that CSR whether or not that WB68 should be mounted with a left-hand or a right-hand screwdriver....
:lol: Had I thought of that, trust me, I would have! Good one!
cweave02
11-28-07, 09:43 AM
SMTPC -
I think that once the analog channels go dead next year, D* will begin to see a lot more competition and wil have to be more responsive. I just hope that those of us who are already customers will reap the benefits of loyalty.
rolastro
11-28-07, 01:13 PM
Just want to report that I was plagued constantly by the 771 error on my HR21-700 and after the D* rep came out it has seemed to take care of the problem. Granted it has only been 1 day but so far so good. He ended up swapping out the Broadband Converters. He said that those that came with my original install were made by a different company than those he installed today. He also said the fact that my 771 error only came up on my local HD channels and a few others (202) pretty much meant that the old converters were'nt doing their job - which was to pick up the low frequency signals & convert them for use by the box. I'll report back after a few days/weeks.
One other note was that after the reboot, I saw the message "downloading software" or something to that affect that I have never seen before. But after looking at my software version it remains unchanged (rev b).
Eric The Red
11-28-07, 02:08 PM
Just want to report that I was plagued constantly by the 771 error on my HR21-700 and after the D* rep came out it has seemed to take care of the problem. Granted it has only been 1 day but so far so good. He ended up swapping out the Broadband Converters. He said that those that came with my original install were made by a different company than those he installed today. He also said the fact that my 771 error only came up on my local HD channels and a few others (202) pretty much meant that the old converters were'nt doing their job - which was to pick up the low frequency signals & convert them for use by the box. I'll report back after a few days/weeks.
Not to rain on your parade, but I had my converters swapped out twice (The last time was about 2 weeks ago with a pair that I odered from DirecTV). It typically helped for about 3-7 days then it went back to the same thing. Maybe you'll have better luck.
Day 3 with a WB616 and so far no issues. Fingers crossed.
tzphotos.com
11-28-07, 08:35 PM
Day 3 with a WM616 and so far no issues. Fingers crossed.
I am about ready to plop down the $140 for the WM616 to hopefully solve my problem without having to call DirecTV and have a tech come and swap my HR20-100.
VOLBEAT
11-28-07, 09:15 PM
I am about ready to plop down the $140 for the WM616 to hopefully solve my problem without having to call DirecTV and have a tech come and swap my HR20-100.
But, if this does solve the problem, what about a person like me that is just using 3 outputs off the dish, and has no need for a huge multiswitch. I still think it a Directv issue.
I still think it a Directv issue.
There is no doubt in my mind but if I can fix the problem on my side until they do something about it I will.
tzphotos.com
11-28-07, 09:22 PM
But, if this does solve the problem, what about a person like me that is just using 3 outputs off the dish, and has no need for a huge multiswitch. I still think it a Directv issue.
I am in the same boat as you. I am only using 2 outputs at this time for one HR20-100. I am just hoping this will be the easy fix(yet costly). Much easier than dealing with DirecTV Customer Service.
I may move my two other receiver from the old 3LNB dish to the Slimline after I hook up the WB616.
Again, I am crossing my fingers that this will fix the problem, based on the fact my HR20-100 couldn't even supply enough power to the Signal meter I was trying to use.
I agree this is a DirecTV problem and I'm tired of waiting for a fix from them.
VOLBEAT
11-28-07, 09:46 PM
There is no doubt in my mind but if I can fix the problem on my side until they do something about it I will.
Oh yeah, I'm with you on that! I would find it just beyond ludicrous to be outside wiring up a completely unnecessary multiswitch to my system just to fix a problem that shouldn't be there. Especially with the kind of money D makes. But, if it comes down to it, I will, then call them up, tell them the whole story, and how I fixed it, and get free stuff on my account:D
jboehle
11-28-07, 10:14 PM
I don't want to do anything of that sort. IMO, it's a problem with their new equipment that they came and installed at my house, it's all still under warranty, so they should be the ones to come fix it!
I am about ready to plop down the $140 for the WM616 to hopefully solve my problem without having to call DirecTV and have a tech come and swap my HR20-100.
Dont waste your money. After 3 days the problem is back.
VOLBEAT
11-28-07, 11:28 PM
Dont waste your money. After 3 days the problem is back.
That sucks man......sorry. Hoping you were onto something.
tzphotos.com
11-29-07, 04:13 AM
1. HR20-100
2. Slim line
3. No Multi-Switch
4. Gray B-Band Converters (Ordered new ones on the website over a month ago, nothing)
Mine Started out with the 110 sat on Tuner 2 and now seems to be a problem on other sats. Only seems to be Tuner 2!
I have exchanged the Slim-line LNB, and the 2 Gray BBC for two other BBC.
Problem still exists.
PS It sound like this problem is not just the HR20, but other HR models as well.
Please post your setup, maybe we can narrow down the equipment causing the problem.
VOLBEAT
11-29-07, 09:00 AM
HR21-700
Slimline
No multiswitch(other than one in lnb)
Newer BBCs that came with HR21(black with gold labels FWIW)
Don't know how much this will help, but hey, what the hell. Ya never know.
Mine has cooperated the last couple nights, so haven't been able to do cable swapping, or any other "process of elimination"
VOLBEAT
11-29-07, 09:04 AM
1. HR20-100
Gray B-Band Converters (Ordered new ones on the website over a month ago, nothing)
Did the same thing, and nothing also. Then I called them and ordered them, and they were on my doorstep via Fedex 2 days later. I've heard that from a lot of people here. Give em a call.
Eric The Red
11-29-07, 09:05 AM
I don't want to do anything of that sort. IMO, it's a problem with their new equipment that they came and installed at my house, it's all still under warranty, so they should be the ones to come fix it!
Yes they "should"... so call them up. They'll come out and not be able to figure out the problem, so they'll replace your multi-switches and your HR-20... then 3 says later you'll have the same problems. Fun stuff.:nono:
rolastro
11-29-07, 09:17 AM
Well, that didn't take long. The problem is back. Mainly on other channels but now just sporadically on the local HD channels. This is getting very frustrating. I don't have much time to watch TV so when I do, I want to relax and escape for a few hours. Instead I'm troubleshooting - which by the way I do all day at work. I've only had D* service since Nov 1 and so far I'm not very happy about D* not acknowledging the scope of this issue.
Just want to report that I was plagued constantly by the 771 error on my HR21-700 and after the D* rep came out it has seemed to take care of the problem. Granted it has only been 1 day but so far so good. He ended up swapping out the Broadband Converters. He said that those that came with my original install were made by a different company than those he installed today. He also said the fact that my 771 error only came up on my local HD channels and a few others (202) pretty much meant that the old converters were'nt doing their job - which was to pick up the low frequency signals & convert them for use by the box. I'll report back after a few days/weeks.
One other note was that after the reboot, I saw the message "downloading software" or something to that affect that I have never seen before. But after looking at my software version it remains unchanged (rev b).
rolastro
11-29-07, 09:22 AM
Not to rain on your parade, but I had my converters swapped out twice (The last time was about 2 weeks ago with a pair that I odered from DirecTV). It typically helped for about 3-7 days then it went back to the same thing. Maybe you'll have better luck.
You were right - the problem is back.
bonscott87
11-29-07, 09:28 AM
I've had this problem the past few days, 771 errors on MPEG4 channels and no signal on 103b. Happens on both an HR20 (via SWM) and an H21 (via BBC on a WB68).
Yesterday I noticed water inside my LNB housing. It's an AT9. I'm thinking at night it was freezing and causing signal loss. Not much water in there yesterday and no problems last night. I'll keep an eye on it and see if the pattern continues. I'd hate to have to sign up for the protection plan to get my dish replaced but I may end up having to do that.
cravingsunshine
11-29-07, 09:30 AM
I had (2) HR-20 700s that were both experiencing daily 771 errors. Three service calls later they had replaced the multi-switch, BBCs, and wall outlets. After no improvement they finally replaced one of the HR20s with a HR21. The other unit had been reset the day before and was not experiencing a problem at the time so they told me to call if that changed.
Three weeks later I have not had any 771 issues with the HR21. Two days after the previous service call my other HR20 started having the tuner issue again. They came back out and replaced my other HR20 with another HR21. It has now been 7 days for the second box and no 771 problems. (knock on wood)
tzphotos.com
11-29-07, 01:34 PM
I had (2) HR-20 700s that were both experiencing daily 771 errors. Three service calls later they had replaced the multi-switch, BBCs, and wall outlets. After no improvement they finally replaced one of the HR20s with a HR21. The other unit had been reset the day before and was not experiencing a problem at the time so they told me to call if that changed.
Three weeks later I have not had any 771 issues with the HR21. Two days after the previous service call my other HR20 started having the tuner issue again. They came back out and replaced my other HR20 with another HR21. It has now been 7 days for the second box and no 771 problems. (knock on wood)
I can't go the HR21 route, because I use the OTA tuner.
1. HR20-100
2. Slim line
3. No Multi-Switch
4. Gray B-Band Converters (Ordered new ones on the website over a month ago, nothing)
Mine Started out with the 110 sat on Tuner 2 and now seems to be a problem on other sats. Only seems to be Tuner 2!
I have exchanged the Slim-line LNB, and the 2 Gray BBC for two other BBC.
Problem still exists.
PS It sound like this problem is not just the HR20, but other HR models as well.
Please post your setup, maybe we can narrow down the equipment causing the problem.
HR20-700
Sidecar dish
WB616 Mulitswitch, also used a WB68
Black BBCs
tzphotos.com
11-29-07, 03:57 PM
I think I'm going to try to wait it out before calling DirecTV. It sound like even when they do come out to fix the problem it sometimes comes back. I am hoping they have a fix before I decide to call them.
What is the warranty on the HR20-100. I have been having the problem since I installed the box and it has been over a month now.
You have a 90 day installation warranty. It's a "leased" unit. If you go past 90 days, they'll want to charge you $19.95 s/h to swap it out for a "refurb," unless you also have the $4.99/mo Protection Plan in force for at least 30 days.
bonscott87
11-29-07, 07:15 PM
Man this is killing me! Everything is fine for an hour. Then it starts to pixelize and eventually goes out to a 771. Then it seems to be out, 0 signal on 103b for about 20 minutes and then signals come back and all is good....for about an hour when it all goes to crud again. Same on all MPEG4 receivers I have.
Trying to watch the NFL game and a hockey game both in MPEG4. Having to go to SD at times. ARGGGGGGGGG.
Man this is killing me! Everything is fine for an hour. Then it starts to pixelize and eventually goes out to a 771. Then it seems to be out, 0 signal on 103b for about 20 minutes and then signals come back and all is good....for about an hour when it all goes to crud again. Same on all MPEG4 receivers I have.
Trying to watch the NFL game and a hockey game both in MPEG4. Having to go to SD at times. ARGGGGGGGGG.
Same here, all my HR20s are worthless with the 103 sat. I hope everyone is complaining to directv.
bonscott87
11-30-07, 08:30 AM
Same here, all my HR20s are worthless with the 103 sat. I hope everyone is complaining to directv.
Note, it's not just my HR20. It's also my H21. At least my problem is not tied to the software on any one receiver, it's all of them.
Before the ice storms hit this weekend I'm going to try to take apart my LNB and see if I can find any moisture or problem and clean it up and seal everything good.
bonscott87
11-30-07, 04:50 PM
Well tonight 103b is just fine but now 101 is out on all my receivers. I guess I have a bad LNB. Now to decide to sign up for the protection plan and the pain of calling support and waiting for an installer to cancel on me or just buy a new slimline on Solid Signal and be done with it...
trekologer
11-30-07, 08:52 PM
Well here's a little (delayed) update on my issue. I sucked it up and called DirecTV and the phone agent wasn't sure about what the cause was but, since I hadn't had an installer out to install the receiver, she wanted to send one out. I didn't have the 2nd coax installed for the 2nd tuner yet, mainly because I needed a multiswitch and didn't (yet) have one. So... the installer would install the 2nd coax line, multiswitch, fine-tune the dish alignment, and if necessary, replace the receiver.
Well the installer shows up at 5:45PM for a 12-5PM apointment. I'm not too happy about him being late but he was nice and apologized. Seems that he was assigned 1 morning apointment and 6 afternoon apointments. I was not the last one either. I didn't mind too much since I was just doing stuff around the house all day.
Anyway, second coax drop, multiswitch, and dish alignment later and signal levels on active transponders is now >= 95%, I can record and watch two shows at the same time. Best of all the 771 error has not come back and its been over 2 weeks. Fingers are crossed but I'm pretty confident that its been resolved.
dodgeboy
11-30-07, 09:33 PM
I installed a 750GB eSata drive on Monday, and the issue hasn't happened since. I'm not saying it fixed the problem, but (coincidentally?) it's never gone this long without the 771.
What the external drive has to do with this, I have no idea. Possibly it needs more free space? Possibly it's a throughput issue and having the recordings stored on a drive that isn't running the OS is faster? Possibly nothing? :)
Dave
AngryGeek
11-30-07, 11:19 PM
UPDATE---
Qwest was a no call, no show for a service call this morning. I rescheduled for Saturday. They are going to bring a new HR20 with them that I fully expect to not resolve the problem.
I plugged an Apricorn ESata drive in, and the problem immediately resurfaces.
Angry Geek
VOLBEAT
12-01-07, 09:36 AM
I didn't have the 2nd coax installed for the 2nd tuner yet, mainly because I needed a multiswitch and didn't (yet) have one. So... the installer would install the 2nd coax line, multiswitch, fine-tune the dish alignment, and if necessary, replace the receiver.
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but it is my understanding that the tuner swaps tuners with each channel change, so if you didn't have the second tuner hooked up, you could have got the 771 message just from that alone. Like I said, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what I've been told.............if one tuner is disconnected, you will get the 771 messge every other channel change.
UPDATE---
Qwest was a no call, no show for a service call this morning. I rescheduled for Saturday. They are going to bring a new HR20 with them that I fully expect to not resolve the problem.
I plugged an Apricorn ESata drive in, and the problem immediately resurfaces.
Angry Geek
You are an MDU user. I would suggest PM'ing member "1948GG" about your 771 issues.
Just jumping in. I had my first 771 problem on 1 of my 2 HR20-700s last night. It was tuned to SciFi HD. This is the first time I've seen this and soft/menu reset fixed it. I hope it does not become an ongoing serious problem as some have reported here.
VOLBEAT
12-02-07, 12:10 AM
My HR21 has cooperated for a few days now, until tonight, and then got a 771 message a while ago, so I restarted it via setup menu, and within 5 minutes after the restart, got a 771 for tuner 1, swapped the cables, and within a few minutes, got the message again, saying tuner 1 again, which would almost positively rule out a cable/BBC problem, I would think, and would now point to the tuner. The part that bothers me is a few people have had new tuners sent to them, just to have the problem come back with the new tuner, so I am at a loss as to what the right thing to do is. Again, it seems to be specific to my HD locals and the newly launched HD channels:bang . It's getting old, as many of you know.
My HR21 has cooperated for a few days now, until tonight, and then got a 771 message a while ago, so I restarted it via setup menu, and within 5 minutes after the restart, got a 771 for tuner 1, swapped the cables, and within a few minutes, got the message again, saying tuner 1 again, which would almost positively rule out a cable/BBC problem, I would think, and would now point to the tuner. The part that bothers me is a few people have had new tuners sent to them, just to have the problem come back with the new tuner, so I am at a loss as to what the right thing to do is. Again, it seems to be specific to my HD locals and the newly launched HD channels:bang . It's getting old, as many of you know.
Looking back over all your posts on this issue and your setup, I think you're going to have to have a new receiver. You've got Tuner 1 only 771's on a new installation with three 50' runs of 1694A cable, new Rev. 3 BBC's w/cable swaps having no effect, no WB68. There's nothing else to do now but join the refurb merry-go-round. Maybe you'll get another new HR21, maybe you'll get a rare, black HR20-100 - who really knows? BTW, was your $19.95 HR21 actually new? I think I would be angling for them to have your installer actually bring you another new-in-box HR21 out of his stock, even those are not actually 100% guaranteed to be NIB, since I gather you're still within the 90 days.
VOLBEAT
12-02-07, 10:18 AM
BTW, was your $19.95 HR21 actually new? I think I would be angling for them to have your installer actually bring you another new-in-box HR21 out of his stock, even those are not actually 100% guaranteed to be NIB, since I gather you're still within the 90 days.
Yes, mine was brand new, without a doubt. I'm actually within the 30 days, so they assured me I would get a brand new one. I will get a brand new one............that's just the way it's going to be:D
VOLBEAT
12-02-07, 12:50 PM
Just called them, and they want to send a tech out, WITH brand new HR21 in hand, so they can check everything else first(which seems ridiculous, because I've done that), and then swap it out if they find nothing. I tried to push for them just to send the receiver, but they said this is what they are doing, and they are getting a lot of calls regarding this with both the HR20 and HR21.
..... but they said this is what they are doing, and they are getting a lot of calls regarding this with both the HR20 and HR21.
Uh-huh! I'll bet.
I forgot if you mentioned detail alignment #'s somewhere, but since he's gonna be there, make sure you're getting almost all 90's on 103(b), both tuners....
bonscott87
12-02-07, 01:10 PM
A lot of the 771 errors are being caused by bad LNBs in the first generation AT9 dishes, in particular those with CalAmp LNBs, now that it's getting cold. Just something to check on.
VOLBEAT
12-02-07, 01:25 PM
Uh-huh! I'll bet.
I forgot if you mentioned detail alignment #'s somewhere, but since he's gonna be there, make sure you're getting almost all 90's on 103(b), both tuners....
My numbers have been pretty consistently good. A couple weeks ago....
103(b)
1-8 92 95 94 90 90 94 90 91
9-16 90 95 93 94 94 95 na na
17-24 95 na na na na 96 na na
25-32 all na
Identical on both tuners......at least at that moment.
A few minutes ago.....
1-8:87 90 89 86 86 89 86 87
9-16:86 91 89 91 89 94 na na
17-24:92 na na na na 94 na na
25-31:na na na na na na na na
It is raining, so I'm assuming that explains the slightly lower numbers.
VOLBEAT
12-02-07, 01:27 PM
A lot of the 771 errors are being caused by bad LNBs in the first generation AT9 dishes, in particular those with CalAmp LNBs, now that it's getting cold. Just something to check on.
I have the WNC lnb, for whatever it's worth, but have noticed it being later at night, when it's colder, but that may be purely coincidental.
VOLBEAT
12-02-07, 01:40 PM
Well, forget any late night/colder theory.........with those 103b numbers, I am having the problem right now. It's also raining, so they should be a little lower than a couple weeks ago with clear skies. At least I think I'm correct on that.
I wish you'd been around a couple of months ago with those CA 103(b) #'s. Back then when D10 went "live," many were saying that 103(b)'s were generally lower in CA. There were early indications this was not actually the case from a few lone reports. But then the info slowly worked its way out that most of the CA posters had Calamp LNB's installed. (There have also been an isolated report or two of good Calamp 103(b) #'s, but not many.) Your WNC looks fine. Good luck with the new HR21!
VOLBEAT
12-02-07, 03:09 PM
I wish you'd been around a couple of months ago with those CA 103(b) #'s. Back then when D10 went "live," many were saying that 103(b)'s were generally lower in CA. There were early indications this was not actually the case from a few lone reports. But then the info slowly worked its way out that most of the CA posters had Calamp LNB's installed. (There have also been an isolated report or two of good Calamp 103(b) #'s, but not many.) Your WNC looks fine. Good luck with the new HR21!
On the phone right now(again) and the girl decided to cancel the tech, with a little help from me:D and send me a new receiver.............since everything points to the receiver. She assured me(a few times) that it would be brand new, without a doubt, so I hope it solves the problem.
Look at the label on the outside of the box when it arrives and make sure the model # doesn't have a "-R" after it. I'm always leery when CSR's make statements like this...
dodgeboy
12-02-07, 04:24 PM
Based on the unexpected results of my problem clearing up (or greatly reducing in frequency--so far so good!), I'd appreciate it if you guys could vote in the poll I setup here:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=111372
I'm trying to determine if this issue may have to do with available storage space on the unit. It's a seemingly unlikely cause, I know... but we may be surprised by the results.
Thanks!
Dave
VOLBEAT
12-02-07, 04:25 PM
Just had another interesting conversation with a CSR.Spent quite a while on thge phone with her also. She basically said that D knows they have a problem with the HR21 and HR20, and are sort of telling everyone they will have a software update to fix it. She said she knows some of her co workers, and happens to live in the same neighborhood as some of them, and in a roundabout way, told me that she has heard that it is a hardware problem, and they most likely just aren't ina hurry to admit it. They'lll eventually fix it and just keep swapping out boxes to get rid of the problem. She said some of them work just fine, so I'll be getting a new box on tuesday or wednesday, so hopefully I'll get a good one.
VOLBEAT
12-02-07, 04:26 PM
Look at the label on the outside of the box when it arrives and make sure the model # doesn't have a "-R" after it. I'm always leery when CSR's make statements like this...
I'll refuse shipment:D
I've even told them that. A tech told me that the refurbs come in a plain white box, but I'll watch for the R after the model #.
bonscott87
12-02-07, 04:32 PM
Just had another interesting conversation with a CSR.Spent quite a while on thge phone with her also. She basically said that D knows they have a problem with the HR21 and HR20, and are sort of telling everyone they will have a software update to fix it. She said she knows some of her co workers, and happens to live in the same neighborhood as some of them, and in a roundabout way, told me that she has heard that it is a hardware problem, and they most likely just aren't ina hurry to admit it. They'lll eventually fix it and just keep swapping out boxes to get rid of the problem. She said some of them work just fine, so I'll be getting a new box on tuesday or wednesday, so hopefully I'll get a good one.
Of course we all know that CSRs are the ultimate fountain of information. :D ;)
VOLBEAT
12-02-07, 04:46 PM
Of course we all know that CSRs are the ultimate fountain of information. :D ;)
Yeah, you definitely have to take it with a grain of salt, just that her information goes along with this kind of unexplainable issue that so many people are having,and she could be somewaht accurate.Ya never know. She said she heard the HR21 didn't go through much beta testing either. Who knows. Hopefully we all get this problem solved.
I really dont think this is a hardware issue, but i suppose it could be possible that all four of my HR20s with different build dates crapped out at the same time.
VOLBEAT
12-02-07, 10:34 PM
Look at the label on the outside of the box when it arrives and make sure the model # doesn't have a "-R" after it. I'm always leery when CSR's make statements like this...
Yeah, now I found out that they really can't promise a new HR21, but most likely I'll get one, because the CSR said he hasn't heard of any refurbished HR21s yet. I'm getting sick of being told so many different versions of the same thing from these people. I should just cancel the order and put it back to a service call with the tech bringing out the new HR21. That's how it was originally set up. I just don't need to commit to waiting up to 4 hours for somebody to come and connect a couple cables to a box. Just plain stupid.
Yeah, now I found out that they really can't promise a new HR21, but most likely I'll get one, because the CSR said he hasn't heard of any refurbished HR21s yet. I'm getting sick of being told so many different versions of the same thing from these people. I should just cancel the order and put it back to a service call with the tech bringing out the new HR21. That's how it was originally set up. I just don't need to commit to waiting up to 4 hours for somebody to come and connect a couple cables to a box. Just plain stupid.
Being as it's the weekend, it might not be too late to re-arrange that. The thing I like about the "new off the truck" method is that you get to test it on the spot, and if it doesn't work, which is a distinct possibility, he can just go get another one until he runs out. Then more the next day.
Another question: Do you have no use for built-in dual OTA receivers there in Ukiah, in case they were to send you a refurb HR20 to replace your HR21, which is a likely outcome of the current situation?
AngryGeek
12-03-07, 12:27 AM
Update-
Tech replaced my HR20 on Saturday. When I rescheduled the service call after the tech didn't show on Friday, I spoke to the CSR who has an HR20 and confirms that it has problems and that Direct TV knows it has problems.
The tech installed the receiver and left to do other service calls within the building. He didn't put in the access card and didn't tell me it was taped to the bottom of the receiver which was in the entertainment center. Luckily he did come back and told me where the access card was, but not before I made several calls to the Qwest dispatcher.
When I asked if he would stick around to see if the unit worked, he said "I'm done for the day, I have put in more time on this then I should have." He said it in an annoyed voice. Nice customer service.
The good news-my HR20 is working well. I recorded football all day today with no 771 errors. I did see some pixelation on one of my recordings. But the machine is picking up every satellite.
I have installed the Apricorn 1TB eSata drive and it is working very well!
For now, all systems go!
Angry Geek
VOLBEAT
12-03-07, 12:28 AM
Being as it's the weekend, it might not be too late to re-arrange that. The thing I like about the "new off the truck" method is that you get to test it on the spot, and if it doesn't work, which is a distinct possibility, he can just go get another one until he runs out. Then more the next day.
Another question: Do you have no use for built-in dual OTA receivers there in Ukiah, in case they were to send you a refurb HR20 to replace your HR21, which is a likely outcome of the current situation?
Yeah, I just called back, and they told me the only way they can guarantee a brand new HR21 is to have a tech bring it, so I'm back to that now. They actually put it on the work order for him to bring a brand new one. It matches all my other components, and it's what I started with, so that's what I want. I hate having whoever Ironwood decides to send out, just to hook up a receiver, but I want the same one. Like you said, we can hopefully make sure everything is o.k. right on the spot. This 771 error thing is very sporadic though. But it's with tuner 1 in my case, so hopefully the new one has 2 good tuners. Oh yeah, I'm 2 hours north of San Francisco, so I'm sure there is no OTA capabilty here, so no need for it on my tuner.
..... Oh yeah, I'm 2 hours north of San Francisco, so I'm sure there is no OTA capabilty here, so no need for it on my tuner.
Sort of depends on if you live on a mountain. At my other location, 100 miles N of ATL, all the OTA's are quite strong, but it's LOS.
A Ukiah side trip got eliminated from a recent visit to Sonoma for a wedding, because of time limitations, or I'd have a better understanding. Maybe next time; seems I'm out there at least once a year. Lots of weddings and funerals at my age!
Enjoy your 4 hours off. Perhaps if you still have the installer's info, you could call them directly and arrange a "heads up, we're on the way" call. (If it's the same company.....)
VOLBEAT
12-03-07, 07:59 AM
Sort of depends on if you live on a mountain.
Yeah, we live in the valley..........mountains all around us, so I'm pretty positive it wouldn't work:)
jzoomer
12-04-07, 08:23 PM
My MPEG4 tuners will occaisionally get in a state where it can't decode the signal properly. Not as signal strength or lack of power at the switch. The only way to cure this is to do a menu reset.
I believe that the tuner has a software runtime that works with it. I don't think it is very robust at this time.
I'm probably jinxing myself but I made directv come out and replace my cal-amp lnb and that in combination with the WB616 has fixed my issue for the last week or so. We'll see if it lasts.
I'm in the SF Bay Area. What is a Cal-Amp LNB? How do I know if I have one? How would I know if it needs to be replaced?
VOLBEAT
12-06-07, 06:50 PM
Fedex just brought my brand new replacement HR21 from D last night, and no 771 yet, but way too early to tell. Everything pointed to tuner 1 with me..........I swapped cables, BBCs, and it was always tuner 1. Always good signal numbers no matter what. Hopefully this will solve my 'searching for satellite' issue. Mine was also specific to HD locals and/or some of the newly launched HD channels.
VOLBEAT
12-06-07, 06:55 PM
I'm in the SF Bay Area. What is a Cal-Amp LNB? How do I know if I have one? How would I know if it needs to be replaced?
It says right on the LNB itself. It's most likely Cal-Amp or WNC, from my understanding.
I'm in the SF Bay Area. What is a Cal-Amp LNB? How do I know if I have one? How would I know if it needs to be replaced?
It says so on the LNB, cal-amp is the manufacturer. Are you having this 771 problem? If so LNB failure is a distinct possibilty.
VOLBEAT
12-06-07, 10:26 PM
Last night when I hooked the new HR21 up, I called to activate it, and their system was updating so they couldn't do it right then, but they would do it when it was finished updating, so I said fine, downloaded the latest software, and set everything else up, and I checked all my signal strengths.....on both tuners. Everything looked about the same, and I've been getting great numbers. Tonight, so far so good with the 771, but all my numbers are down considerably, but especially my 103b. Here it is 5 minutes ago
53 51 53 49 50 50 51 49
48 49 52 51 51 54 na na
54 na na na na 51 na na
na na na na na na na na
And, I'm still getting a picture on my locals, and I tried a few of the newer launched hd channels, and same thing. I called D and he said it wasn't likely that it is the new receiver, but maybe the multiswitch in the dish. All my other numbers are noticeably lower, but not all are that drastic. It is raining pretty hard, but that doesn't seem right. Maybe it is. I still have a service appt. for saturday morning from that mixup I had with D.......so guess I'm keeping it.
..... All my other numbers are noticeably lower, but not all are that drastic. It is raining pretty hard, but that doesn't seem right. Maybe it is. I still have a service appt. for saturday morning from that mixup I had with D.......so guess I'm keeping it.
Had a pretty decent rain here the other night. All my 103(b)'s are normally 95 and above except for one tp, which is normally 91. During the rain they all went straight to zero. My KU signals were still 100% watchable, with signal strengths in the 60's and 70's. So I wouldn't get too concerned about those readings in any kind of weather. This is going to be a long-term issue for DirecTV. I'm still waiting for the "Fatline" dish to become available....
VOLBEAT
12-07-07, 09:17 AM
Had a pretty decent rain here the other night. All my 103(b)'s are normally 95 and above except for one tp, which is normally 91. During the rain they all went straight to zero. My KU signals were still 100% watchable, with signal strengths in the 60's and 70's. So I wouldn't get too concerned about those readings in any kind of weather. This is going to be a long-term issue for DirecTV. I'm still waiting for the "Fatline" dish to become available....
Yeah, I realized later last night that it most likely isn't a big deal. When the rain had almost stopped, I checked again, and the 103b numbers had gone back up significantly. I'm just not used to seeing such a drop. VOS also told me that it's very normal. Usually I don't check my signal strength a lot like I have lately either, with the ongoing problems I've had. I still have a service call scheduled for tomorrow, but may cancel it if my numbers are back up again today and no 771. Is there another dish due to come out?
smptc73
12-07-07, 10:18 AM
For the record, I have:
HR20-700
WB-68 Multiswitch
Slimline Dish
OTA UHF/VHF antenna mounted in attic
Various 2 way and 3 way splitters to split signal to several components and rooms in the home (luckily I'm close to the transmitting towers)
Not sure about what type of BBCs
So a couple of nights ago I finally got fed up with the 771 issue occuring on my HR20-700 and decided to call DirecTV about it.
To recap: I get the 771 error on OTA channel 9-1 in Minneapolis. For some reason, the box randomly replaces the 9-1 channel in Minneapolis with a 9-1 broadcast in Wisconsin in the Guide. When I change the system to change the guide back to 9-1 Minneapolis, I get the 771 error which can be remedied by resetting the OTA channels or resetting the box.
I explain this situation to the tech service rep; here are his responses:
1. You need to be using a wideband multiswitch to distribute your signal. I indicated to him that this was an OTA issue, not one with the satellite signal. The multiswitch is irrelevant, but the one I do use was provided by DirecTV.
2. He indicated to me that they are currently working on a solution called "SWM" that may resolve this issue. I kindly reminded him again that this was an OTA issue, and realized it was going to be a long call.
3. He indicated that my OTA antenna needed to be grounded in order to function properly. I commented to him that it seemed odd that all of the other OTA channels (including 9-2) worked just fine without it being grounded, and that all of the signal strengths were outstanding. [OT - anyone else notice that the highest OTA signal strength you can get from the HR 20 is 77%? On the same feed, I get over 90 (out of 100) on my internal TV tuner.]
4. He indicated that my coax cable from the antenna was split, and therefore, not compatible with the OTA tuner in the HR20. "Really?" I replied. DirecTV released a component that is incompatible with the splitting of coax cable? Who in the engineering group signed off on that requirement? Again, there doesn't seem to be a signal strength issue on any of the other channels or the other "legacy technology" boxes from DirecTV that I own.
At this point, I'm pretty unhappy and request that a new box be sent. I am told that since DirecTV isn't responsible for OTA programming that sending me a new box is out of the question.
My response is that the only thing mentioned here that I haven't confirmed is the grounding of my antenna (which is IN my attic, not on my roof). If I ground it, and this still happens, will DirecTV then be convinced that this is not a signal issue and will I be sent a new box in that eventuality? I am told no.
I exhibit my extreme displeasure with this product and these responses and suggest that something is wrong with the HR20, not the signal going to it. I am put on hold, and after am told that the Supervisor has recommended forwarding my issue to the Broadcast and Engineering teams at DirecTV for further analysis. My issue will be forwarded for consideration in future software updates.
However, it's not guaranteed that the issue will be fixed, and no one will contact me to let me know if it's even been considered (or forwarded.) I asked that someone contact me, and it is requested in the note, but not guaranteed.
I follow up with the fact that I will be following up in 1 week if not contacted.
What a joke.
For starters, I signed on for a 2-year committment to activate this unit. The committment is a two way street - they provide a box subisdy, the box, and the programming, I pay the fee. They are in breach of the committment when the box they provide doesn't work. PERIOD.
This is a $1500 (minimum) piece of equipment (lease plus 24 month committment of a bare bones programming.)
I don't own any other $1500 electronics items in my A/V set up. Given that, it should be the best piece of equipment I own.
Instead, this one randomly changes the guide by itself, resulting in blank recordings for that channel.
Perhaps I should randomly decide to send what I want for monthly programming fees.
I'll give an update to the saga next week, lest the group have any recommendations I haven't thought of (besides resetting the box and checking the connections, which have already been done.)
pjo1966
12-07-07, 05:32 PM
I just encountered this problem for the first time on my HR20-100. A menu reset did not cure the problem.
pjo1966
12-07-07, 05:53 PM
I just encountered this problem for the first time on my HR20-100. A menu reset did not cure the problem.
I left it unplugged for a couple of minutes and that did the trick. This DVR cannot die. We're about a month behind in our viewing. We haven't stressed about letting the programming build up because of the strike. Also, they'll want to replace it with an HR21. I already have one of those and I don't want to lose my OTA and eSATA capabilities.
m0ondoggy
12-07-07, 06:50 PM
Still going strong with the Sonora. No problems since.
VOLBEAT
12-07-07, 06:50 PM
My brand new replacement due to my 771 messages seems to be o.k. as far as that goes, but I'm getting pixelating without a cloud in the sky. Seems thats another known problem with thses HR21s. I'm getting tired of this crap and the equipment they send out.
DirecTV came out on Wednesday and "peaked" my dish. They also replaced the coax cables that run from the dish to the attic (the ones that come in the box with the slimline dish).
I got a 771 error on tuner 1 last night. :(
Is there anyone who installed a WB616 who's still getting 771 errors? Is the WB616 the switch to get? I don't need 16 out. 6 out will do.
I live in an apartment. The line goes in from my balcony to my bedroom to an HD Receiver....then through the wall and accross the floor to the living room and connects to the HR21. I frequently get the 771 message on HD channels in the living room. If i go to the bedroom and tune the HD receiver to the same channel, it comes in fine on that tv. What gives? I, like most others am able to get the channel after a reset. Also something I noticed, on the hd receiver, it finds all satellites, where as the HR21 finds all but the 99 satellite (which the install guy says isn't a problem in my area)....any ideas what the deal is and why i get signal perfect picture on one tv and then on the HR21 i get 771?
DirecTV came out on Wednesday and "peaked" my dish. They also replaced the coax cables that run from the dish to the attic (the ones that come in the box with the slimline dish).
I got a 771 error on tuner 1 last night. :(
Is there anyone who installed a WB616 who's still getting 771 errors? Is the WB616 the switch to get? I don't need 16 out. 6 out will do.
The third day I got my WB616 i had the 771 error. The next day I had my dish with the cal-amp lnb replaced. No 771 errors since. I cant say if the WB616 was the answer or the lnb or the combination of them but no errors for about 10 days.
VOLBEAT
12-09-07, 11:13 PM
I got a 771 error on tuner 1 last night. :(
I was getting that also......always on tuner 1. I swapped the cables with BBCs attached, waited for the 771 again, and again it was tuner 1. The problem didn't follow the cable, so it points almost positively to tuner 1. You might try that if you haven't already. I'm on day 5 with my new HR21 that D* shipped to me, and no 771 yet............with fingers crossed.
Sysyphus
12-10-07, 03:44 AM
Looks like I may be eligible to join this club:
HR21 that certainly gave all appearances of being brand new, black BBCs, WB68 and 5 LNB dish.
All worked great for five days.
Noticed a 771 on Discovery HD last Sunday when we were having some mild wintry mix precipitation... 101/110/119 remained fine throughout but new sats were very low (lots of zeroes, single digits & teens for most of the rest). Assumed it must be a coating of ice/snow on the LNB and forgot about it.
Two days of above freezing temps and sunshine, Discovery HD never came back, although some of the MP4 HDs did. Tuner independant so probably not the box itself, BBCs or cable this side of the multiswitch.
Levels on 99 & 103 have been really erratic, but always bad. Tech failed to show up last Wednesday (finally called at 1:30pm when I was already on my way to work to say he was "running a bit late" for his 8-12 appointment - like I hadn't figured that out for myself :rolleyes: ). Bitched to CSR about this and got a $100 "on-time guarantee" credit. Now rescheduled for this morning 8-12.
Hoping it's as simple as some moisture got in somewhere, and that replacing cables, multiswitch or LNB will clear it up, but having discovered this thread I am now not too optimistic.
smptc73
12-10-07, 07:43 AM
After being told I would under no circumstances receive a new box, a reconditioned HR20-700 showed up on my porch on Friday.
I'll set up and let the group know what I find out about the OTA channels.
Sysyphus
12-10-07, 10:46 AM
...
. Tech failed to show up last Wednesday (finally called at 1:30pm when I was already on my way to work to say he was "running a bit late" for his 8-12 appointment - like I hadn't figured that out for myself :rolleyes: ). Bitched to CSR about this and got a $100 "on-time guarantee" credit. Now rescheduled for this morning 8-12.
Hoping it's as simple as some moisture got in somewhere, and that replacing cables, multiswitch or LNB will clear it up, but having discovered this thread I am now not too optimistic.
oh well... guess I'm not going to be of any use on this thread after all... another mornig wasted on another tech no show :mad: ... on the phone with retention right now - at this point they need to come up with something really good to keep me.
Eric The Red
12-10-07, 11:39 AM
DirecTV came out on Wednesday and "peaked" my dish. They also replaced the coax cables that run from the dish to the attic (the ones that come in the box with the slimline dish).
I got a 771 error on tuner 1 last night. :(
Is there anyone who installed a WB616 who's still getting 771 errors? Is the WB616 the switch to get? I don't need 16 out. 6 out will do.
I have a WB616 and still get the errors. If I bypass the WB616, I also get them.
I was having the 771 problem on my HR20 for a while too. I noticed that it always seemed to be the same tuner. I switched the Sat input feeds on the HR20 and the problem moved to the other tuner. I had an extra feed coming from the Sat that I wasn't using so I replaced the one that was having a problem with that and the problem seems to have gone away.
Ya know, it wouldn't be so bad if DirecTV said, "We're having some trouble with our satellites and we're working on it. Please hang in there." But in the absence of such a statement, we all feel like the problem is with our equipment. And it might be. DTV, are you listening? Communicate with us, please.
VOLBEAT
12-10-07, 10:50 PM
For whatever it's worth, I'm going on day 5 with no 771, after my first HR21 was replaced by D*, after VOS helped me determine my problem was specific to tuner 1. Many things can cause it, but in my case it was a bad tuner. The guy that came to my house saturday on a service call, due to some pixelation issues, said that a lot of the units he swaps out with tuner problems, are usually tuner 1, for whatever that's worth.
Bill Broderick
12-11-07, 10:30 AM
I already have two HR21's. Last night, I purchased a new HDTV for my guest room along with an HR20-700. I had been having problems with the TV in my bedroom syncing up with one of the HR21's, when the HR21 sent anything other than a 1080i signal, so I put the HR20 into my bedroom and the HR21 into the guest room with the new TV (the sync problem doesn't exist with the HR20 and new TV shows 'no signal' for a second or two when the HR20 switches to resolutions other than 1080i, but then, when a signal is sent, it is syncing up properly).
I haven't had any 771 problems with either of my HR21's (which I've had for about 3 weeks). I have a Slimline, with a Sonora Power Inserter and a WB-68 multi-switch. About 3 hours after installing the HR20, which was the first time that I watched it, after the intial setup, I got the 771 error on one of the Starz HD channels. It was "cured" by a front panel reset.
Given that the only difference in the chain is the new receiver, the problem can't be with the wiring, power inserter or multi-switch.
My question is, has anyone received the 771 error shortly after setup, reset the box and not have the problem reoccur? If this is something that I can be sure will be an ongoing problem, I may as well get DirecTV to swap the receiver, while it's still under warranty (I don't have the protection plan).
dodgeboy
12-23-07, 09:31 AM
I just wanted to post a follow-up here... It's been 3 weeks since I added the eSata drive to my HR20-700 and I haven't once had the 771 error. Before the eSata drive, I got the error almost every 24 hours. I have no idea why the eSata drive solved the issue, but I'm not complaining.
I have the same series recordings, and same settings as before the eSata drive. Literally nothing else has changed.
If you're at your wit's end like I was, you may want to consider trying this to see if it solves your problem. I installed a WD 750GB HD in a small eSata enclosure.
Dave
sharpmibo
12-23-07, 05:24 PM
I had the 771 errors usually during the early evening and heavy pixelization. These began after the national release in mid November. I did the forced download of the 1BE CE and have not had the problem since on the three HR20's I upgraded. D* came out and moved my slimline about three weeks ago, the tech felt a tree was the problem, but that did not solve the issue. It continued until the upgrade. This seems to point to the national release having a problem.
sharpmibo
12-23-07, 05:26 PM
Correction. The forced upgrade was to 1E2 from the 1BE national.
pjo1966
12-23-07, 06:57 PM
I had the error again on my HR21 yesterday. Luckily it's a slow time of year and nothing is recording.
kirk78h
12-24-07, 05:16 AM
I just started having the 771 issues. If one show is recording, and I try to change channels to one of my local HD channels, I get the 771 message. This was just happening on tuner 2, then I switched cables; now it is always tuner 1.
After explaining this to a service rep for about 40 minutes, she told me to reformat the hard drive. She was absolutely convinced that was the only way to stop this. I said I didn't want to do that because I have a backlog of recordings to go through. Has anyone done this? If I went through this, and it didn't help, I would be very PO'ed.
m0ondoggy
12-24-07, 12:31 PM
I just started having the 771 issues. If one show is recording, and I try to change channels to one of my local HD channels, I get the 771 message. This was just happening on tuner 2, then I switched cables; now it is always tuner 1.
After explaining this to a service rep for about 40 minutes, she told me to reformat the hard drive. She was absolutely convinced that was the only way to stop this. I said I didn't want to do that because I have a backlog of recordings to go through. Has anyone done this? If I went through this, and it didn't help, I would be very PO'ed.
Don't do it, even if it does help it will only be temporary, CSR's are clueless. BTW, going on a couple months of 771 free after installing the Sonora.
Just another data point. I've had a HR20 for about 7 weeks and never got a 771. A few days ago I got a second HR20. Due to an unrelated (maybe not) glitch, I decided to menu reboot the original HR20. After it booted, I promptly got the 771 on some HD channels. After doing a sat signal check, the problem went away. I thought it was odd since nothing had changed except adding the other HR20. So I went to that one and checked all of the signals. I noticed two things. No signal at all on the 101 on tuner #1 and about 35 on 103b on tuner #1 (110 was a little low and 119 was fine). I removed the B band converter and the 101 came back and the 110 came all the way up. Next I swapped the BBC with the other one and the problem moved to the other tuner. So no doubt the BBC is bad. Now I wonder if the bad BBC could have caused the 771 on the other HR20 because maybe it was screwing up the LNB voltage or something. Anyway, it may be possible that a bad BBC on one receiver can be causing the 771 on other receivers. This could explain why some people are getting the problem on mulltiple recievers when only one BBC may be bad. Just a theory of course.
BTW, a quick call to DirecTV and they are shipping me two new ones. No runaround with the CSR. I just said one was bad and they said no problem we will get them right out. Call took less than 2 minutes. :)
Just another data point. I've had a HR20 for about 7 weeks and never got a 771. A few days ago I got a second HR20. Due to an unrelated (maybe not) glitch, I decided to menu reboot the original HR20. After it booted, I promptly got the 771 on some HD channels. After doing a sat signal check, the problem went away. I thought it was odd since nothing had changed except adding the other HR20. So I went to that one and checked all of the signals. I noticed two things. No signal at all on the 101 on tuner #1 and about 35 on 103b on tuner #1 (110 was a little low and 119 was fine). I removed the B band converter and the 101 came back and the 110 came all the way up. Next I swapped the BBC with the other one and the problem moved to the other tuner. So no doubt the BBC is bad. Now I wonder if the bad BBC could have caused the 771 on the other HR20 because maybe it was screwing up the LNB voltage or something. Anyway, it may be possible that a bad BBC on one receiver can be causing the 771 on other receivers. This could explain why some people are getting the problem on mulltiple recievers when only one BBC may be bad. Just a theory of course.
BTW, a quick call to DirecTV and they are shipping me two new ones. No runaround with the CSR. I just said one was bad and they said no problem we will get them right out. Call took less than 2 minutes. :)
Interesting. Thanks for the update. I'm glad people are keeping this thread going as I have not yet resolved my own 771 errors. I'll be installing new BBCs tomorrow. I'll post back with news when I have it.
booradly
01-05-08, 01:37 AM
I had replaced the bbc and still 771 error. I had a tech come out last week to replace the receiver to the hr21. Still having the same issue plus new problems. Now we need our dish realigned because of the storms here in CA. I called to schedule an appt again but they can't come out for a week. Now I have no locals and no HD channels. At least they credited my account something so far and then when it is fixed I will be getting more credits. Ughh this is so ridiculous.
I hope that your problem is the bbc's.
Michele
Just to pipe in here. I doubt in the majority of cases it has anything to do at all with your local hardware, dish, etc. I was receiving the dreaded 771 msg. 3 weeks ago specifically on HD channels 519, 521 and 540....lasted for 3 days, then disappeared. Started getting the IDENTICAL scenario this morning i.e. same channels, same 771 msg. I called a friend in San Fernando Valley 10 miles away (we live in the Greater LA area)...same subscription as moir.
He was receiving the problematic 771 msg on the IDENTICAL channels !!
Just to pipe in here. I doubt in the majority of cases it has anything to do at all with your local hardware, dish, etc.
It's already been discussed that there are multiple reasons one might get the message. I do believe at least some of it is software related. However, at least in my case, the problem started immediately when the other HR20 with the bad BBC was connected (keep in mind it was a different receiver that then got the 771). and the problem has not returned since I removed the bad BBC. And others have reported the problem going away with changing various hardware. YMMV of course, but it's hard to say just what percentage is hardware related, software related or other.
raven56706
01-07-08, 05:59 AM
I have to say... i used to have the 771 problem everyday.... so far two weeks with no 771.... and i didnt do anything to fix it...
i have a scheduled mutliswitch install this saturday.
mntbikejack
01-07-08, 09:47 AM
I have had the 771 issues off and on ever since the new HD channels arrived. It was rather bad last night. I did notice that it would eventually tune to the hd channel if I left it search for a few minutes. After tuned there were no issues.
The Big Bad
01-07-08, 01:37 PM
If you call Directv right now there is a recorded message that advises unplugging the unit for 30 seconds. For what it's worth, it worked for me on all three of my HR20s (771 signal issues very similar to what's been reported in this thread).
Eric The Red
01-07-08, 02:29 PM
It's already been discussed that there are multiple reasons one might get the message. I do believe at least some of it is software related. However, at least in my case, the problem started immediately when the other HR20 with the bad BBC was connected (keep in mind it was a different receiver that then got the 771). and the problem has not returned since I removed the bad BBC. And others have reported the problem going away with changing various hardware. YMMV of course, but it's hard to say just what percentage is hardware related, software related or other.
In my case, I have changed both my BBCs twice, meaning I've gone through 6 BBC's. Needless to say, it would be pretty bad luck if a bad BBC was indeed the problem.
I had this error occur on my two old TiVo receivers. One was an HR10-250 and the other was a SD TiVo. The problem would occur on both TiVos at the same time and would be fixed with resets. I thought the problem was the TiVos, so I had them replaced with HR20s; however, the problem persisted. Then, I moved one of my old HR20s from a room that always worked to one of those rooms and the error showed up on that one too. Therefore, I began to think it was the cable run to those two rooms.
I have 2 multiswitches connected together with multiple splitters from the dish running 10 lines into my house. A technician came out and replaced both my multiswitches and all the splitters. Since then, I have not seen the error.
FWIW, in regards to my post above about a bad BBC causing a 771 on a separate receiver, I received the new ones today via FedEx overnight. New one works fine and I have not had another 771. Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not.
On a side note, DirecTV told me they only send the BBCs in pairs. Ok fine, but they sent them individually. :rolleyes: Guess they must have a good bulk rate deal with FedEx. :lol:
On a side note, DirecTV told me they only send the BBCs in pairs. Ok fine, but they sent them individually. :rolleyes: Guess they must have a good bulk rate deal with FedEx. :lol:
If that's true, the rep I spoke to hadn't gotten the memo. He was willing to send me just one as an experiment. I had to ask for two. They came in separate envelopes.
Eric The Red
01-10-08, 01:46 PM
FWIW, in regards to my post above about a bad BBC causing a 771 on a separate receiver, I received the new ones today via FedEx overnight. New one works fine and I have not had another 771. Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not.
Wait a few days. Unplugging the cables always seems to clear things up. So by default, putting on new BBC will "clear up" the problem for a few days.
Bergthold
01-17-08, 08:59 AM
I have not recieved this error for several weeks now. I was going to start replacing components like the multiswitch, and BBCs to fix the problem.
I did nothing except reset the box when I got the error. Now it works perfect. It must have been a software issue, or something not related to my system.
Eric The Red
01-27-08, 06:19 AM
Hey... I noted that since the upgrade the grey screen is gone... now it's black.:mad:
ipljeff
01-30-08, 02:26 PM
I have zero signal on Tuner 1. I completely removed it from power for about 5 minutes. After the reboot there was a signal on Tuner 1. It cycled through all of the transponders and then all of them went to zero. D* is sending a tech out Friday probably to swap out the reciever. I will post an update after that.
Wait a few days. Unplugging the cables always seems to clear things up. So by default, putting on new BBC will "clear up" the problem for a few days.
Since this thread was bumped up by someone else, I will respond to this and say that it's been 20 days since I replaced the bad BBC and have not had a 771 since. So, I think that blows the 'it will be back in a few days' theory.
Since this thread was bumped up by someone else, I will respond to this and say that it's been 20 days since I replaced the bad BBC and have not had a 771 since. So, I think that blows the 'it will be back in a few days' theory.
I replaced both BBC's on Sunday on my HR20---within a day the 771 message had returned on this unit....but only on Tuner 2. Swapping the cables still has the same result. Swapping the BBC's has the same result. The HR21 I have hooked up doesn't exhibit these issues---but I don't watch as much of the new HD channels on that receiver.
Switching channels multiple times from HD to non-HD channels for a few minutes always makes the 771 message go away (i.e. neither Tuner 1 or 2 will show this message after I switch multiple times so that Tuner 2 is always on a new HD channel)
I have a 6x16 Zinwell at home that I'm thinking of putting in place of the 6x8 that D* gave me less than a year ago. But I need to find the time to get up on the ladder and do it.
I have too much recorded on this unit to call and get them to come out and replace it---as I do have the protection plan. So until I watch what I've recorded I'll have to live with it.
Can someone please explain what the protection plan buys you? Aren't these things warranteed?
mikez12
01-31-08, 06:02 AM
Has anyone who is experiencing this problem had any success with a technician coming out for a service call?
Since mid-December - coincident with switching to the HD Extra Package - I have been among the ranks of those getting searching for signal on channels in the HD 70-79 range - mainly on 70, 71 & 75 - and their 500-530 channel counterparts.
Reset solves it temprarily. Always Tuner 2 and 110 Satellite 8, 10 12 transponders are low when the problem occurs.
I have a service call scheduled in a week and I am not hopeful of it doing any good. I am in fact afraid that the guy may break something that is working now and still not fix the original problem.
Has anyone been fixed by a service call yet for this?
shedberg
01-31-08, 06:25 AM
Has anyone who is experiencing this problem had any success with a technician coming out for a service call?
Since mid-December - coincident with switching to the HD Extra Package - I have been among the ranks of those getting searching for signal on channels in the HD 70-79 range - mainly on 70, 71 & 75 - and their 500-530 channel counterparts.
Reset solves it temprarily. Always Tuner 2 and 110 Satellite 8, 10 12 transponders are low when the problem occurs.
I have a service call scheduled in a week and I am not hopeful of it doing any good. I am in fact afraid that the guy may break something that is working now and still not fix the original problem.
Has anyone been fixed by a service call yet for this?
I was lucky enough to have the problem occur on the morning a tech was to come out. I did not reset the box or put it in standby. This was the second time I had someone come out. Once he checked the cabling and heard all of the steps I had gone through to rule out everything bu the box AND he saw the problem, he gave me a new box and I have not had any problems since.
Bubba Jr.
01-31-08, 06:34 AM
I had this same problem also. During the first tech trip my 5-LNB, BBCs, and a DVR were replaced. I still had the problem. On the second service call, the Tech said that there was possibly an issue with the HR 21-700 sending too much voltage to the LNB. He put a WB68 multi-switch in to act as a voltage drop(I only have one receiver). The problem has not happened since.
Eric The Red
01-31-08, 08:07 AM
Since this thread was bumped up by someone else, I will respond to this and say that it's been 20 days since I replaced the bad BBC and have not had a 771 since. So, I think that blows the 'it will be back in a few days' theory.
So you had a bad BBC. That's an easy fix. Good for you.
ipljeff
02-01-08, 07:41 PM
I have zero signal on Tuner 1. I completely removed it from power for about 5 minutes. After the reboot there was a signal on Tuner 1. It cycled through all of the transponders and then all of them went to zero. D* is sending a tech out Friday probably to swap out the reciever. I will post an update after that.
The dish was severly out of alignment. It is working fine now on both tuners.
NO1B4ME
02-05-08, 07:59 AM
[QUOTE=Simpleton24;1252803]Dave,
Following up on what Stew in Fla. said, make sure your cables and connections are good first. Your problem is exactly what happened to me and this is how I fixed it.
It's been over 2 weeks now and I have not had one problem.
Kevin
[
Thanks for the information. I will give this a try as well.
I noticed that one of the tuners on one of my HR20's had a 771 yesterday. First time this has happened in a while. Soft / menu reset cleared it up, but I noticed that it seemed to linger a bit longer than normal on the satellite settings screen during startup. After the reboot, both tuners had normal signal levels on all the sats.
There's still a glitch somewhere that either causes or does not correctly recover from a 771 error.
smimi10
02-05-08, 08:15 AM
I, too, was having 771 errors on my HR20-700...I went outside and found several loose connections, and more importantly discovered that my dish was not grounded. Apparently the installer decided not to run a new ground wire when he upgraded my 3-LNB dish to the Slimline.
I ran a ground wire to the existing ground block, and along with the tightened connections, my experience has been better.
NO1B4ME
02-05-08, 09:26 AM
I checked my signal and have 0's for 103 and 99. What does that mean? My new slimline was professionally installed by a tech with a meter.
Do you have your BBC('s) installed between the dish coax line and the receiver?
jzoomer
02-05-08, 10:26 AM
I believe this is a software issue in that a condition with the MPEG4 tuner is not being properly handled which results in a lock up. Based on the discussion here, I would say that bit-error-rate is a factor in the likelihood of seeing this problem but cannot totally solve it. So changing BBC, upgrading lines, and dishes will only reduce the frequency of seeing this problem. You will never have a 0 BER in the real world.
It is obvious that their software has no clue the MPEG4 tuner is hung so I propose a menu item under system settings for resetting the MPEG4 tuners. Instead of waiting 5 minutes for the system to boot with a full reset, you wait only a few seconds while the tuners are reinitialized.
I have two receivers that both have this happen on a regular basis with signal strength on the 103 satellites between 80-100 depending on transponder.
ipljeff
02-07-08, 09:34 AM
The dish was severly out of alignment. It is working fine now on both tuners.
Holy crap! :mad: It's at it again. Reboot clears some of the 771 errors but not all of them. Stil losing signal on Tuner 1. All of my loacal HD channels are stuck on 771 Error. Is there a resolution in the works on DTVs end? :bang
vanbojp
02-11-08, 02:26 PM
I have this occurring sporadically on my 2-week old install (HR21-200, Slimline dish). It's happened about 3 times in two weeks. I had DTV send an installer out, as the first time it happened was the day after installation. The installer told me the signal strength was fine, so there was nothing he could do (about re-aligning the dish). Since it was working fine when he showed up, I couldn't argue with him. After reading all these 771 threads though, sounds like the culprit can be anywhere. I work in IT, but find this extremely irritating, as this stuff should work like an appliance. I also don't understand the complete lack of pattern or consistency, as it happened all day yesterday, and it was perfectly clear and sunny... and not all HD channels are affected. HBO/Showtime and HDNET worked fine, but just about all other HD channels were gone.
BTW, what is a BBC?
Michael D'Angelo
02-11-08, 02:28 PM
BTW, what is a BBC?
BBC=Broad Band Converter
It is the thing that the SAT lines connects to and then it connects to the tuners on the receiver.
NO1B4ME
02-12-08, 07:36 AM
I have this occurring sporadically on my 2-week old install (HR21-200, Slimline dish). It's happened about 3 times in two weeks. I had DTV send an installer out, as the first time it happened was the day after installation. The installer told me the signal strength was fine, so there was nothing he could do (about re-aligning the dish). Since it was working fine when he showed up, I couldn't argue with him. After reading all these 771 threads though, sounds like the culprit can be anywhere. I work in IT, but find this extremely irritating, as this stuff should work like an appliance. I also don't understand the complete lack of pattern or consistency, as it happened all day yesterday, and it was perfectly clear and sunny... and not all HD channels are affected. HBO/Showtime and HDNET worked fine, but just about all other HD channels were gone.
BTW, what is a BBC?
I guess I iwll join the club as well. I have ordered new PPC compression connectors, compression tool and next the WB661. I already ran Belden 1649A when my home was built just need to terminate it all.
The DTV installers in my area are worthless. Lazy as hell and want to charge you an arm and a leg. I don't mind paying as we ALL have to make a living.
I am a Network Engineer myself and torubleshoot is what we do daily :)..
I previously had 2 Hughes HD boxes and never had any of these problems. I am a loyal 10 yr customer myself.
NO1B4ME
02-12-08, 07:38 AM
Do you have your BBC('s) installed between the dish coax line and the receiver?
Yes i do :).
The only way to cure those 771 errors is to get powered switch like WB616 or SWM8. Since I installed SWM8 3 weeks ago I have not had any 771 searching for signal errors.
NO1B4ME
02-12-08, 08:24 AM
The only way to cure those 771 errors is to get powered switch like WB616 or SWM8. Since I installed SWM8 3 weeks ago I have not had any 771 searching for signal errors.
Thnaks I will order one and throw it into the mix :hurah: .
Wow i just checked the price for the SWM8 ant it is $400.00. For that much money it better not have anymore 771's..LOL
CarolusMagnus
02-12-08, 11:52 AM
I believe this is a software issue in that a condition with the MPEG4 tuner is not being properly handled which results in a lock up. Based on the discussion here, I would say that bit-error-rate is a factor in the likelihood of seeing this problem but cannot totally solve it. So changing BBC, upgrading lines, and dishes will only reduce the frequency of seeing this problem. You will never have a 0 BER in the real world.
It is obvious that their software has no clue the MPEG4 tuner is hung so I propose a menu item under system settings for resetting the MPEG4 tuners. Instead of waiting 5 minutes for the system to boot with a full reset, you wait only a few seconds while the tuners are reinitialized.
I have two receivers that both have this happen on a regular basis with signal strength on the 103 satellites between 80-100 depending on transponder.
Based on how I experience the problem, I'm inclined to agree that it is an issue with the MPEG4 tuners. I only see the 771 error on the MPEG4 channels after my receiver has rebooted because of a power outage or a new software download. I can always resolve the problem by selecting some other channel (SD) and reselecting the HD channel. Sometimes it takes a few moments of switching back and forth by it finally clears it up. I believe what I am doing was described in post #42. I just didn't realize it. Once I've done this I never see it again until another unplanned reboot.
Eric The Red
02-12-08, 12:16 PM
The only way to cure those 771 errors is to get powered switch like WB616 or SWM8. Since I installed SWM8 3 weeks ago I have not had any 771 searching for signal errors.
Did you previously have a WB68?
For the record, I tried a Sonora 5X8 multi-switch and it was of no help. I don't what the differences would be with the WB616 or SWM8 that would make any difference.
http://www.sonorastore.com/957.html
Did you previously have a WB68?
For the record, I tried a Sonora 5X8 multi-switch and it was of no help. I don't what the differences would be with the WB616 or SWM8 that would make any difference.
http://www.sonorastore.com/957.html
Yes, I had WB68 with Sonora PI/polarity locker, and I was getting 771. As soon as I installed SWM8, 771 error stopped. I even removed polarity locker. There has to be something that MPEG4 receivers do not like in unpowered switches.
Sonora 5x8 switch is only for KU band. I am using SWM8 on 5 lnb ka dish.
Based on how I experience the problem, I'm inclined to agree that it is an issue with the MPEG4 tuners. I only see the 771 error on the MPEG4 channels after my receiver has rebooted because of a power outage or a new software download. I can always resolve the problem by selecting some other channel (SD) and reselecting the HD channel. Sometimes it takes a few moments of switching back and forth by it finally clears it up. I believe what I am doing was described in post #42. I just didn't realize it. Once I've done this I never see it again until another unplanned reboot.
This is exact issue I had. I would fix it by going to another channel, but as I posted earlier, once I installed SWM8 switch the 771 error is gone.
Eric The Red
02-12-08, 02:43 PM
Yes, I had WB68 with Sonora PI/polarity locker, and I was getting 771. As soon as I installed SWM8, 771 error stopped. I even removed polarity locker. There has to be something that MPEG4 receivers do not like in unpowered switches.
Sonora 5x8 switch is only for KU band. I am using SWM8 on 5 lnb ka dish.
One follow-up... did you ever try bypassing the multiswitch entirely and going directly from the dish to the receiver? If so, what were the results? My results were that the 771 continued.
The only way to cure those 771 errors is to get powered switch like WB616 or SWM8. Since I installed SWM8 3 weeks ago I have not had any 771 searching for signal errors.
I installed a 6x16 Zinwell that I had bought to hold onto (for a minimal fee on Ebay) when I upgraded to a 5lnb via D* last year....and as expected the installer only installed a 6x8 switch in April of 2007...this after I specifically told the rep that a 6x16 be put on the work order because it would make more sense for me when I decided to upgrade my 4 remaining HR10-250's in the near future....but that's not the point of this post!
I installed the 6x16 this past weekend....and still have 771 (in my case only on Tuner 2) message's daily so far.
And, like previous posters, if I tune to SD channels, and then come back to the new HD channels, the 771 goes away. I installed new BBC's. I swapped out each rg6 per tuner....
In addition, I do notice that on 70, 71, 501, 537, on Tuner 2 RIGHT before these 771 issues all of the above channels (and probably more) start to HEAVILY pixelate almost like a storm is coming....but again, only on Tuner 2.....
I'll be calling to swap this hr20 out via the protection plan...as soon as I've watched the 10-15 movies that are on it!!!!
:nono2:
CarolusMagnus
02-12-08, 03:29 PM
This is exact issue I had. I would fix it by going to another channel, but as I posted earlier, once I installed SWM8 switch the 771 error is gone.
I have never had a multi-switch installed since I only have two receivers. The switch may contribute to the problem but I'm still not convinced it is the source.
vanbojp
02-12-08, 05:17 PM
BBC=Broad Band Converter
It is the thing that the SAT lines connects to and then it connects to the tuners on the receiver.
Thanks, but what do they do? Why is the functionality not built-in to the receiver... what exactly are they converting? How do you tell which 'version' BBC you have?
I installed a 6x16 Zinwell that I had bought to hold onto (for a minimal fee on Ebay) when I upgraded to a 5lnb via D* last year....and as expected the installer only installed a 6x8 switch in April of 2007...this after I specifically told the rep that a 6x16 be put on the work order because it would make more sense for me when I decided to upgrade my 4 remaining HR10-250's in the near future....but that's not the point of this post!
I installed the 6x16 this past weekend....and still have 771 (in my case only on Tuner 2) message's daily so far.
And, like previous posters, if I tune to SD channels, and then come back to the new HD channels, the 771 goes away. I installed new BBC's. I swapped out each rg6 per tuner....
In addition, I do notice that on 70, 71, 501, 537, on Tuner 2 RIGHT before these 771 issues all of the above channels (and probably more) start to HEAVILY pixelate almost like a storm is coming....but again, only on Tuner 2.....
I'll be calling to swap this hr20 out via the protection plan...as soon as I've watched the 10-15 movies that are on it!!!!
:nono2:
In your case it sounds like a bad tuner. I never had any pixelation, only 771 error.
One follow-up... did you ever try bypassing the multiswitch entirely and going directly from the dish to the receiver? If so, what were the results? My results were that the 771 continued.
Yes I did. I still had 771 error, but I could not use it without a switch as I have 4 DVR's.
Thanks, but what do they do? Why is the functionality not built-in to the receiver... what exactly are they converting? How do you tell which 'version' BBC you have?
BBC converts KA band to lower frequencies so the tuner can receive those satellites. SWM eliminates BBC's.
I've had this problem since December. It only happens in the evening, and not every day. Once it happens, it starts with bad pixelization and the screen will "freeze up" every few seconds. It happens on both tuners, and usually on all channels (including SD, although at times SD would not be affected). Signal strength is good.
I had the DVR replaced in December (now I have an HR21), the multiswitch replaced also in December, and recently they replaced the dish itself. Initially I thought this could have been related to the temperature outside (only happens when it gets cold outside?). But the dish replacement did not help.
I've had this problem since December. It only happens in the evening, and not every day. Once it happens, it starts with bad pixelization and the screen will "freeze up" every few seconds. It happens on both tuners, and usually on all channels (including SD, although at times SD would not be affected). Signal strength is good.
I had the DVR replaced in December (now I have an HR21), the multiswitch replaced also in December, and recently they replaced the dish itself. Initially I thought this could have been related to the temperature outside (only happens when it gets cold outside?). But the dish replacement did not help.
Do you have any light dimmers on the same circuit or nearby PC's running? They have been known to cause RF interference. What happens to the problem if you do a Restart Recorder from the System Setup > Reset menu?
Welcome to DBSTalk.com!
vanbojp
02-18-08, 01:35 PM
So, I had DTV send another installer out on Saturday... he spent about 45 minutes on the roof, re-aligning the dish. Before he went up, the signal strength on 101 was in the high 80's, and the 103 was in the mid 70's. Since we basically live in the middle of an open field, and it was a perfectly clear day out, he said it should be WAY higher. When he finished, the 101's were in the upper 90's to 100, and the 103C was in the mid 90's. He said he could tweak another point or two if he ripped off the main support, and reset it, but that it may cause roof leaks-- I told him 'good enough!', thanked him profusely, and he left.
Later that night, I had set up something to record on HDNet, from like 8pm to midnight... and it was so pixelatted with no audio (or dropouts), it was unwatchable. The 103C signal strength was in the 60's on Sunday morning, but the 101 was still in upper 90's. By 10am, 103 was back in the 90s...
So, now what? Receiver/tuner issues? BBC's? The grounding seems fine, as it's hooked right up to the grounding wires from the electrical box...
My wife is ready to punt, and just go back to the SD DirecTivo, as this 80% good, 20% bad scenario just sucks... and it seems completely sporadic.
Assuming you've checked for loose connectors (frequently a problem), the next step would be to replace your BBC's. These can be obtained by calling DirecTV. They're free and sent by 2 day FedEx.
The next step would be replacing the LNB, which could be intermittently bad. (If you still had that HR10-250 you could confirm those low 110's.) At least your dish is now well-aimed, so that's one thing you don't have to worry about.
This may eventually turn out to be a bad receiver, but you need to eliminate the possible installation issues first.
How long are the cable runs from the HR to the dish?
vanbojp
02-18-08, 05:54 PM
I did order the BBCs from DTV's site last week; haven't seen them yet though.
The cable runs are approximately 60-70 feet.
I did order the BBCs from DTV's site last week; haven't seen them yet though.
The cable runs are approximately 60-70 feet.
You'd better check your account to see if that order got processed, because it seems to be an unreliable source of BBC's, based on reports here. The telephone, while a PIA, works every time in 2 days.
Those cable runs shouldn't be a problem with non-solid copper center conductor RG6.
vanbojp
02-19-08, 08:28 PM
Called tech support again; they assigned it to Case Management... allegedely someone will work with me until this gets resolved. It's just ridiculous how sporadic it is... one day, I'll have perfect signal levels, and then 3 days in a row in the 50's...
wde00dbs
02-22-08, 04:21 PM
HR20 lost the 1st 20 minutes of "Lost" last night due to 771 on D* local ABC channel. Started viewing the recording and was able to get the rest of "Lost" recorded on the OTA channel. Had another "black" record a couple of weeks ago on the Cinemax HD East channel.
Went searching for mor info on this today and here is what happened ...
Menu reset didn't seem to help. I defined a channel list with only D* HD channels and thumbed through them several times getting random 771's on either D* tuner.
Defined same list for H20 and got NO 771's.
HR20 random 771's occured all over the place - 95, 248, local 2. Was always able to get the channel eventually by thumbing to another channel and then back.
BTW - in trying to debug this, the bounciness of the RF remote really made me mad since I often got double key presses when I only wanted one. I have to have RF due to where my HR20 is positioned.
Would you please post your 101, 119, and 103(c) signals in grid format? (Menu button > ...>...>....System Setup > View Signal Strength). Check both tuners 1 & 2. If they're not substantially the same, please post both tuners for all 3 satellites.
I haven't had the SCIFI channel all week. Certain HBO's don't work either. Been to busy to call D. I'm going call today.
This is killing me. Not even a month into D and I can break the DVR and I'm having signal issues.
Nice.
I haven't had the SCIFI channel all week. Certain HBO's don't work either. Been to busy to call D. I'm going call today.
This is killing me. Not even a month into D and I can break the DVR and I'm having signal issues.
Nice.
You can't receive those channels if you're missing satellite signals. A great deal can be learned about what your problem might be from looking at your satellite signal strength setup menu pages in detail. See post #245 /\ /\.
my signal is at 90%. A tech will be out March 3rd to realign.
funny thing is it's on 54 channels, everything else seems fine.
my signal is at 90%. A tech will be out March 3rd to realign.
funny thing is it's on 54 channels, everything else seems fine.
There are "techs" and then there are techs who know what they are doing. Make sure before he leaves you're getting transponder signal strengths that are mostly all in the 90's on the System Setup > Satellite > "View Satellite Strength" 103(c) menu pages for both tuners before he leaves. Don't just rely on what you're seeing in the System Test.
vanbojp
02-25-08, 09:16 AM
There are "techs" and then there are techs who know what they are doing. Make sure before he leaves you're getting transponder signal strengths that are mostly all in the 90's on the System Setup > Satellite > "View Satellite Strength" 103(c) menu pages for both tuners before he leaves. Don't just rely on what you're seeing in the System Test.
Mine were all mid-90's on 103(c) when he left, and sporadically still get there (like once every few days), but mostly they are now in the 60's, which gives me no signal, or an unwatchable signal... It changes on a dime too. Both tuners are always the same; there's very little variance ever.
No call yet from "Case Management", whoever that mysterious group is.
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