D* vs E* HD count thread

[Rob Glasser]

DISH NETWORK® BRINGS HIGH-DEFINITION NBA HOOPS
TO NATION’S LARGEST HD LINEUP

Englewood, Colo. – Oct. 30, 2007 – DISH Network®, home of the best sports and movies in high definition (HD) as well as the best HD DVR in the industry, announced today that NBA TV is now included in DISH Network’s industry-leading national lineup of HD programming. With 75 channels, DISH Network’s continues to offer more national HD programming than any pay-TV provider in the United States.

“Bringing NBA TV HD to the home of the best sports and movies in HD is a natural move for DISH Network and a slam dunk for hoops fans,” said Eric Sahl, senior vice president of Programming for DISH Network. “Pairing DISH Network’s amazing picture quality with the best HD DVR anywhere will make watching all the action from home nearly every bit as exciting as going to the game.”

NBA TV is a hoop fan's dream and the ultimate source for all things basketball, featuring live NBA games every week, basketball news and information, exclusive interviews with the game's greatest stars and legends, and original series spotlighting today's players and coaches as well as the most memorable moments in the NBA's history. NBA TV will offer its first HD games of the 2007-08 season on Sunday, Nov. 4.

“We are thrilled to team up with DISH Network to provide their subscribers with the opportunity to experience the powerful combination of NBA basketball and high-definition through NBA TV in HD,” said NBA Deputy Commissioner and Chief Operating Officer Adam Silver.

Subscribers to America’s Top 100 package with DishHD will receive NBA TV HD free on Channel 402. DishHD is available free for six months to new customers, and new DISH Network subscribers may also receive a free upgrade to the company’s industry-leading and award-winning HD DVR receivers. Through Jan. 31, 2008, both current and new qualifying DISH Network DishHD customers may also enjoy up to $800 of instant savings on a variety of Sharp’s most popular line of flat panel HDTVs.

For more information about DISH Network, DishHD or NBA TV HD, call 1-800-333-DISH (3474), visit www.dishnetwork.com or contact your local retailer.
# # #

About EchoStar Communications Corporation
EchoStar Communications Corporation (Nasdaq: DISH) has been a leader for more than 27 years in satellite TV equipment sales and support worldwide. The Company’s DISH Network® is the fastest-growing pay-TV provider in the country since 2000, providing more than 13.585 million satellite TV customers with industry-leading customer satisfaction which has surpassed major cable companies for seven years running. DISH Network customers also enjoy access to a premier line of award-winning Digital Video Recorders (DVRs), hundreds of video and audio channels, the most International channels in the U.S., industry-leading Interactive TV applications, Latino programming, and the best sports and movies in HD. DISH Network offers a variety of package and price options including the lowest all-digital price in America, the DishDVR Advantage Package, high-speed Internet service, a free upgrade to the best HD DVR in the industry, and six months free of DishHD. EchoStar is included in the Nasdaq-100 Index (NDX) and is a Fortune 300 company. Visit www.echostar.com or call 1-800-333-DISH (3474) for more information.

About NBA TV
Launched in 1999, NBA TV is a fan's all-access network for everything basketball. The network offers over 400 games annually including more than 100 NBA regular season and playoff games, WNBA action, D-League competition, weekly Euroleague Games, and major international events like the FIBA Americas Championship. The network, which can be seen in 73 countries, features more than 20 original series; exclusive access to NBA events; news from around the world of basketball; nightly highlights; Top 10 Plays of the Day; interviews with the game's insiders, including current stars and legends; and exciting new technology such as High Definition. In addition, NBA TV offers real-time statistics, the latest fantasy basketball and video game news, and Video-On-Demand.

[Smthkd]

I thinks its funny that Dish is STILL claiming to have the largest HD line up in the nation. Did I miss something but how can they claim this? NBA HD must be one powerful channel!

[ScoBuck]

I thinks its funny that Dish is STILL claiming to have the largest HD line up in the nation. Did I miss something but how can they claim this? NBA HD must be one powerful channel!

What kills me is the obvious desperation they are showing. I guess since you can't add channels, you have to add hype.

There CANNOT be a SINGLE educated DISH sub that believes they have 75 national channels right now.

[John W]

I guess since you can't add channels, you have to add hype.



Oh, the irony.

[ScoBuck]

Oh, the irony.

Does the truth hurt that much? Its only TV. Instead of barking at me - why don't you email the CEO of Echostar and tell him that instead of hype you want USA-HD, or more movie channels in HD?

Don't blame me for presenting the truth - that press release is A TOTAL FABRICATION! You folks just can't stand to hear the truth can you?

[richiephx]

What kills me is the obvious desperation they are showing. I guess since you can't add channels, you have to add hype.

There CANNOT be a SINGLE educated DISH sub that believes they have 75 national channels right now.

If you cross your eyes, you can count 150 :)

[ScoBuck]

That's pretty funny - but since they only have about 50 national channels in fact, you would have to cross your eyes and WEAR CONTACTS at the same time.

I simply don't understand why the DISH fans take their frustration at the truth out on me - instead of callling up their beloved provider and asking them to explain how they get 75 channels for their ads?

The quote from the OP press release:

With 75 channels, DISH Network’s continues to offer more national HD programming than any pay-TV provider in the United States.

I know DirecTV promised the future capacity to offer channels (and that alone got the DISH fans angry), I don't EVER remember them claiming to have more HD channels live than DISH - until 3 weeks ago.

If DISH were to count all the local RSN and stuff - they may have the 75 they claim - but DirecTV would have over 100 counting those same type of channels - so the claim of having more is 100% FALSE.

oh and from the same press release:
and the best sports

I guess football and baseball are NOT number 1 and 2 in this country!

[John W]

Does the truth hurt that much? Its only TV. Instead of barking at me - why don't you email the CEO of Echostar and tell him that instead of hype you want USA-HD, or more movie channels in HD?

Don't blame me for presenting the truth - that press release is A TOTAL FABRICATION! You folks just can't stand to hear the truth can you?

What a sign of the times when a comment- "Oh, the irony" is defined as "barking".

You weren't on a forum called Dish Network High Definition Discussion doing much barking for the YEARS that your provider was all hype regarding HD.

[ScoBuck]

What a sign of the times when a comment- "Oh, the irony" is defined as "barking".

You weren't on a forum called Dish Network High Definition Discussion doing much barking for the YEARS that your provider was all hype regarding HD.

Forget history, these people are saying TODAY that they STILL Lead - that is the lie. Doesn't that disturb you?

And DirecTV's hype was that they were going to launch sats and build infrastructure for a 2007 launch - and guess what - THEY DID IT!!!!!!

[GeorgeLV]

That's pretty funny - but since they only have about 50 national channels in fact, you would have to cross your eyes and WEAR CONTACTS at the same time.

I simply don't understand why the DISH fans take their frustration at the truth out on me - instead of callling up their beloved provider and asking them to explain how they get 75 channels for their ads?

The quote from the OP press release:

With 75 channels, DISH Network’s continues to offer more national HD programming than any pay-TV provider in the United States.

I know DirecTV promised the future capacity to offer channels (and that alone got the DISH fans angry), I don't EVER remember them claiming to have more HD channels live than DISH - until 3 weeks ago.

If DISH were to count all the local RSN and stuff - they may have the 75 they claim - but DirecTV would have over 100 counting those same type of channels - so the claim of having more is 100% FALSE.

It's simple. Overnight thie press releases went from claiming 39 national HD channels to whatever DirecTV is claiming + 1.

[James Long]

What kills me is the obvious desperation they are showing. I guess since you can't add channels, you have to add hype.

There CANNOT be a SINGLE educated DISH sub that believes they have 75 national channels right now.Nor should a single educated D* sub believe D* has over 70 national channels.
(Nor should we believe you can keep your word. :) )

If it ticks you off so much GO WATCH TV ...

I simply don't understand why the DISH fans take their frustration at the truth out on me - instead of callling up their beloved provider and asking them to explain how they get 75 channels for their ads?Perhaps you should not be making yourself a target?

[ScoBuck]

Obviously, I don't 'mind' becoming the target - as I point out that the real target is DISH. James - where is your indignation over this blatantly FALSE advertising by DISH? I have read your posts for 2 years about DirecTV hype, can't you be fair about this? Doesn't the OP press release bother you?

I agree that DirecTV doesn't truly have 70 national channels (they have 63 in my count that I can receive on my TV). so now that I said that - how many do YOU say DISH has that an individual could get if they purchased EVERY PACKAGE offered?

By the same token, my next door neighbor (DISH sub) can't even get 50, no matter what packages he buys. Can YOU recieve more then he can?

As far as my word, I have re-considered - I see you post in the D* threads, and I don't come in here and flame people, I state my views and opinions, just becasue they are different than yours, I won't be censored for that.

[ScoBuck]

It's simple. Overnight thie press releases went from claiming 39 national HD channels to whatever DirecTV is claiming + 1.

Exactly - and yet people take it out on me - NOT THE LYING sat-provider!

[harsh]

I guess since you can't add channels, you have to add hype.Apparently they can add channels. If they couldn't, they wouldn't be making this announcement.There CANNOT be a SINGLE educated DISH sub that believes they have 75 national channels right now.I'm with you on that one. Both providers are lying through their respective teeth. Both are counting channels more than once.

I do believe that E* offers more national HD programming though.

[ScoBuck]

I do believe that E* offers more national HD programming though.

This MIGHT be true - but if you add in all of the NFL HD on Sunday, the ESPN college football, MLB-SF, and so on, it might NOT be.

But regardless, this is NOT what they are claiming.

And I don't know the answer, and personally won't be adding up all of the hours on all of the different channels.

[James Long]

This is yet another counting thread ... have we not run the course for this?
How much more needs to be said? Rehash rehash rehash until every thread is polluted.

Enough! Someone talk about NBA TV in HD ... something that D* doesn't have ... and the apparent repositioning of said channel in their lowest channel package (AT100).

[bairdjc]

yay now my life is complete

I'm waiting for this to degerate into a E*/D* HD count thread, then someone will complain how Voom isn't "real" HD

ugghhh

maybe we can make another forum for these people so they can bicker all day and keep it to themselves?

[ScoBuck]

This is yet another counting thread ... have we not run the course for this?
How much more needs to be said? Rehash rehash rehash until every thread is polluted.

Enough! Someone talk about NBA TV in HD ... something that D* doesn't have ... and the apparent repositioning of said channel in their lowest channel package (AT100).

Uh- DirecTV does indeed have NBA-TV-HD - its channel 601-1.

whoops!

[James Long]

Missed the announcement. Cool ... now D* has "80" channels to brag about. :rolleyes:

[DBS Commando]

Can the D* fanboys please stop crapping our threads? Yes E* is full of ****, GET OVER IT. Who cares what E* says when you guys clearly have a superior line up. Stop argueing numbers.

[ScoBuck]

Missed the announcement. Cool ... now D* has "80" channels to brag about. :rolleyes:

And since DISH added 1 more, I guess their ad tomorrow will be that they now lead with 200 HD national channels.

:nono2: :nono2: :nono2:

[harsh]

But regardless, this is NOT what they are claiming.If you read past the first few words of the second sentence, more HD national programming is precisely what DISH is claiming.And I don't know the answer, and personally won't be adding up all of the hours on all of the different channels.We can take a mathematical shortcut by comparing the HD content offered on the exclusive channels.

DISH has 15 or so exclusive channels that are full-time HD plus NHL Network.

DIRECTV has 27 exclusive channels that average considerably less than 50% HD programming (some still offer none IIRC).

It would appear based on some very rough numbers that DISH offers more.

Perhaps DIRECTV is counting CMT, MTV, VH1 and Nick East as their 10/15/07 channel lineup PDF suggests. Those channels probably wouldn't help the average even if they were available.


In the final analysis, both providers added NBA TV HD yesterday and it both cases, you must subscribe to the high-end package to get it once the preview is over.

[Richard King]

http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1250773&postcount=142
But you guys win - I'll stay in the DirecTV area - I'm tired of the whining here already. See you all in a year or so.

[James Long]

He "changed his mind" Richard. :nono:

Prepare for moderation ...

Thread split - NBA TV HD discussion left in E* forum.

[pardon]

This is weird, how come the press release from 10/18 says 75 HD channels (when they added NHL HD) and now they have one more channel (NBA HD) but the count still remains at 75 HD channels?
Where they padding the count before or the NBA HD doesn't count as a national HD channel?

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=105455

[James Long]

E* removed another PPV channel to "make room" for NBA TV HD.

Some of us are still trying to figure out why they don't use the room they have for new channels. :)

[tonyd79]

Both are counting channels more than once.


Do I need to debunk this lie that you keep telling again? DirecTV is not counting ANY stations twice no matter how much you claim it.

[tonyd79]

This is yet another counting thread ... have we not run the course for this?
How much more needs to be said? Rehash rehash rehash until every thread is polluted.

Enough! Someone talk about NBA TV in HD ... something that D* doesn't have ... and the apparent repositioning of said channel in their lowest channel package (AT100).

Only said because the company you spin for is losing.

Oh, nice fact checking there on NBA TV.

[James Long]

Already noted ...

BTW - what D* is counting twice is local network channels. They count the four locals in one's LIL HD package (even though many markets don't get LIL HD) as well as counting all eight distant HDs (which even fewer D* subs qualify for).

And if D* used E*'s counting method (count anything that breathes HD) start at 80. E* isn't counting the NHL HD / NBA HD feeds ... do what you want with NFL HD. :)

[Stewart Vernon]

I have to say that while I find Scobuck to be annoying at times stirring the pot in the Dish forums every once in a while... I can't stick up for Dish on this one.

I am disappointed to see the creative counting at work here. I have Dish, and am a very happy Dish customer. But I cannot get to their HD channel count without some very creative math.

Truthfully, DirecTV fudges things too... but if both companies counted honestly, I don't think Dish can make the grand claim of having the most HD anymore.

Forget arguing over which is your or my favorite channel or whether Voom counts or not... I wish more HD channels existed, and I wish all of them had 24/7 HD... but for as much as DirecTV's nebulous claims early in the year about "up to" however many channels... Dish is going over to the dark side now too with these suddenly crazy (yes I said crazy) channel counting methods.

PPVHD should really only count once, in my opinion. We could argue whether 20 PPV are better than 5 if we want... but I don't want to count 20 PPVHD channels the same as 20 other HD channels.

Some RSNs have 24/7 content, even if not 24/7 HD... other RSNs only have game-time content. I would personally like to see RSNHD only counted once even if many customers get more than one in their area... and an asterisk acknowledgement listing of all the RSNs can be shown and discussion of a multisport pack as well.

I wouldn't count NBA, MLB, NFL, or NHL "League pass" deals as channels either. I would count NBATV, NHLTV, NFLTV, and when MLBTV launches I'd count that too. Then an acknowledgement can be shown for Sunday Ticket/MLB on DirecTV to note that customers can add additional coverage for HD games... and both Dish and DirecTV have NBA/NHL packages.

After all that... Voom counts, History counts, even TBS counts... we can have other discussions about which is your favorite channel or if Voom has 24/7 HD where TBS has 0/0 HD!

But I am disappointed to see Dish digging further into the strange counting method.

[braven]

A lot of Kool Aid drinking going on if you ask me. (from both sides) :rolleyes:

[James Long]

My intent was not to defend E* on their counting methods but to defend the members of DBSTalk who have E* service and are quite capable of being annoyed at E* without any 'outside' prompting.

You can be ticked at E* for claiming 75 channels as well as ticked at ScoBuck or any other user that decides to rub it in. These things are not mutually exclusive ... they are two different issues!

Padding counts is part of the business. D* added audio channels to their announced channel counts in 1998 (or so) and E* followed suit. E* offers a "500" channel capacity dish ... but they don't claim any combination packages is 500 channels. (E* is actually underestimating counts on the SD side including audio channels.)

The ship has sailed on getting either provider to promote a lower number that would be more accurate.

[msmith198025]

This is yet another counting thread ... have we not run the course for this?
How much more needs to be said? Rehash rehash rehash until every thread is polluted.

Enough! Someone talk about NBA TV in HD ... something that D* doesn't have ... and the apparent repositioning of said channel in their lowest channel package (AT100).

Of course it is. thats the thread title. What did you think would be found here??:p

edit: i see that it had been moved. oops

[James Long]

National HD count as of 10/18
E*-41
D*-57A little out of date.
I'll keep track, if you like. :D

[Richard King]

So, who's going to step up to the plate and do the count on the total HD minutes per normal 24 hour period on each service? Afterall, this is the only way to determine the TRUE HD leader. ;)

[msmith198025]

A little out of date.
I'll keep track, if you like. :D

haha havent had time to do a more recent count. im thinking about even taking it off since for all intents and purposes there isnt a point anymore;)

[tsmacro]

Hmmmm....well lets see from doing my own research on this it seems to me that DirecTv actually has the higher "channel count" but of course that includes a lot of channels at this point who's actual real HD content is marginal at best. Thanks to Voom which are all HD pretty much 24/7 I think Dish actually has more hours of actual HD programming shown on any given day. Now of course that's Voom which has it's own it's own issues according to many on this forum but i'm not going to rehash that now. So it seems to D* is currently the leader in channels and E* is the leader actual amount of HD programming shown. So that makes which one of them the "HD leader"? Well luckily it leaves plenty of "grey area" for this same argument to go 'round and 'round forever it would seem!! :sure: :lol: :nono2:

[James Long]

Unfortunately NEITHER release a subscriber figure ... so that point cannot be pursued. :)

[Richard King]

Of course, in doing the HD minutes count you have to be very careful to watch all the commercials and eliminate the minutes that they occupy if they are not in HD. :D

[tomcrown1]

Unfortunately NEITHER release a subscriber figure ... so that point cannot be pursued. :)


In my hubble opinion neither is the leader in HD. The true leader is over the air HD as that right now gives the best HD picture quality---unless you have fiber optic cable and get the true feed from HDNET HDTHEATER HDMOVIE which is the only way to get the full glory of HD.

Now to start the blue ray Hd fight on (opps wrong thread)

TO ME THE ONLY THING THAT COUNTS IS THE PICTURE QUALITY OF HD!!!!

I wish more folks cared about the picture that is being sent rather than the number of HD channels.

[msmith198025]

In my hubble opinion neither is the leader in HD. The true leader is over the air HD as that right now gives the best HD picture quality---unless you have fiber optic cable and get the true feed from HDNET HDTHEATER HDMOVIE which is the only way to get the full glory of HD.

Now to start the blue ray Hd fight on (opps wrong thread)

TO ME THE ONLY THING THAT COUNTS IS THE PICTURE QUALITY OF HD!!!!

I wish more folks cared about the picture that is being sent rather than the number of HD channels.

and as many have stated the new mpeg 4 stuff being pumped out is as good as OTA. To most anyway
FIOS has PQ issues also, depending on who you talk to

[flexoffset]

This is yet another counting thread ...

Attn D* and E* and everyone else who doesn't like channel counting:
If you don't want folks counting, just use less quantifiable words like "Gobs, Bunches, Oodles, Whole Lot, Tons, Fair Amount, Crapload", etc. :D

[ScoBuck]

I have to say that while I find Scobuck to be annoying at times stirring the pot in the Dish forums every once in a while... I can't stick up for Dish on this one.


........

But I am disappointed to see Dish digging further into the strange counting method.

Let me please tell you a little of why I am 'stirring the pot' as you say. For OVER 2 years I have read way too many posts by DISH fans (here AND in these D* forums as well), COMPLAINING about DirecTV advertising that they will 'soon' have the capcity for 150 channels. I couldn't even begin to link them there are SO MANY OF THEM. And this was all for them promising the channels in the future - NEVER saying they actually had them up and live.

Some, including mods here participated in tis exercise of indignation over DirecTV's advertising what they didn't have - and the continued gloating that D* gets promises, we already have the channels.

Well, now, the shoe is on the other foot, and those very same people that bitched for 2 years or so about misleading advertising, now try to JUSTIFY it by THEIR beloved provider putting out not only misleading but entirely BOGUS information.

I guess its ok if its your team is doing it, and taking it to a new level. DISH puts out official press releases that are clearly false - and there is NO JUSTIFICATION for it - at worse case the argument that D* did it also doesn't fly. Didn't your mamas tell you that 2 wrongs don't make a right?

I am not trying to stir the pot - I am trying to 'stir the discussion'. Anyone that thinks there is any other reason is plainly wrong. And guess what - I have stirred this discussion. That was the purpose.

[James Long]

I personally have not written one ad for E* nor one press release. I don't believe those authors post on this forum (or any other). At least not directly. I see no reason to hold anyone responsible for the advertising that "their" provider is using.

But there does seem to be a blindness to the lies of D*. They have created their own HD channels from SD feeds. In their rush to meet their "promised" over 70 target they put up feeds that did not exist. And we have heard D* fanboys (not the company, but members of this forum) admit that these were non-HD source and defend these "upconvert" channels as "better than SD".

Sorry, but D*'s advertising isn't "over 70 better than SD" channels. It is over 70 HD channels. HD in HD is the standard they should be living up to. D* is putting out press releases as well that could use a little less channel padding.

So E* pads their count. So what? Should we give out gold stars to people who mention it? D* pads their counts too. Should I add the line "D* lies less than E* about their count" to my sig?

D* still has to live up to the shifting promises they made ... I hope the live up to the original promise but I assume that they will just add 19 more channels that are upconverts and/or blacked out in most of the country when in HD instead of truly passing the 100 national channels in HD mark by the end of the year.

We have had people defend D*'s lies as being less than E*'s lies. What a lousy statement ... "my satellite carrier lies less than yours!"

That is what the argument has become.

[ScoBuck]

See - discussion is good. You again excuse DISH with a "so what", then condem DirecTV. My reply - So What.

[Richard King]

Let me please tell you a little of why I am 'stirring the pot' as you say. For OVER 2 years I have read way too many posts by DISH fans (here AND in these D* forums as well), COMPLAINING about DirecTV advertising that they will 'soon' have the capcity for 150 channels.Obviously someone was looking into their crystal ball "over 2 years" ago when they started posting complaints about Directv advertising. I say this because Directv didn't start talking about 150 channels (or 100 channels) of HD until this year. If someone has been complaining about their ads touting 150 channels for two years I want to know who it was so that I can hire them to be my financial advisor and lottery number picker. By the way, they are still advertising that they will have "up to" 100 channels by the end of the year. Of course, anyone the least bit familiar with the English language will realize when they hear this ad that they already carry "up to" 100 channels in HD, in fact, they carried "up to" 100 channels in HD the day they started transmitting their first HD channel.


http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?...&postcount=142

Quote:
But you guys win - I'll stay in the DirecTV area - I'm tired of the whining here already. See you all in a year or so.

[RAD]

But there does seem to be a blindness to the lies of D*. They have created their own HD channels from SD feeds. In their rush to meet their "promised" over 70 target they put up feeds that did not exist. And we have heard D* fanboys (not the company, but members of this forum) admit that these were non-HD source and defend these "upconvert" channels as "better than SD".

Since you're making a post talking about D* creating their own HD channels do you have any proof of that statement? This is the same exact thing that people were saying, there was no Weather Channel HD, no Sci-Fi HD, no USA HD, no FX HD, no CNBC HD, we know those folks were incorrect in their statements. Unless you have facts to back up your statement I think you shouldn't make such comments.

[ScoBuck]

Obviously someone was looking into their crystal ball "over 2 years" ago when they started posting complaints about Directv advertising. I say this because Directv didn't start talking about 150 channels (or 100 channels) of HD until this year.

Another uninformed post. DirecTv has been talking abut 150 channel capacity since September 8, 2004. The following items ALL discuss this very thing AND ARE OVER 2 YEARS OLD:


http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=127160&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=617918&highlight=

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=127160&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=660036&highlight=

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=127160&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=660037&highlight=

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=127160&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=700828&highlight=

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=127160&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=713981&highlight=

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=127160&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=766263&highlight=

[Richard King]

A press release does not an advertisement make. They did not start advertising this capacity until this year.

[RAD]

A press release does not an advertisement make. They did not start advertising this capacity until this year.
IIRC, D* was advertising all the coming HD capacity at least last year. I remember seeing an ad with a bunch of TV moving around, some on a roof, about all the HD channels that D* would be adding.

[Ron Barry]

Guys this is marketing not a court of law. I don't get the arguing of whose Marketing departement stretches the truth more. Marketing stretches the truth all the time it is their job to show a company in its best light. E* does it, D* does
it, and Cable does. No company is immune to it.

And one tactic that Microsoft has perfected is pre-announcements to freeze their customer from going to the competition. It has killed companies and in a lot of cases the announcements never saw the light of day. It is a Marketing tactic just like press releases and are ways to get the word out while providing the spin your company wants or freeze the market until you have something better to offer.

My take on any company making two year ahead announcements like mentioned above is it is down with the sole purpose to freeze the customer base until you have somthing better to provide them. To create a perception that may or may not become reality.

As for Press Releases, Not sure how E* does them but at my previous company they get written months in advance because they have to go through legal etc. Not sure if this is the case with E* or perhaps it is just the Marketing Department being a Marketing Department.

Bottom line. In my opinion both tactics suck but it is part of our environement and as consumers we should do our research and listen to various sources. Lots of times it is just how two people see the same thing.

As to the.. E* subs have been throwing rocks the last two years. Well I have been on this board for the last two years and personally I have not seen as much mud slinging than I have in the last month.

Maybe I am old and have forgotten.. But besides the occassional flair up I don't recall this type of flaming occuring during any of that time between the D* and E* subs. Perhaps these things were happing on the D* threads and I missed them but I don't recall it and I think I would have remember something like that.

I know this thread is in the general forum and is the right place for it. However, I also think when people gather at a common area (Nutreal ground so to speak), points should be stated, differeing view points respected, people should state facts or opinions as they know them, listen to other opinions and avoid flame baiting and derogotary behavior. If someone steps into another persons house they should treat the house with respect and avoid taking a leak pool. There has been a lot of leaking lately from both sides and it Just is not cool.

Well that is my opinion...

[Richard King]

IIRC, D* was advertising all the coming HD capacity at least last year. I remember seeing an ad with a bunch of TV moving around, some on a roof, about all the HD channels that D* would be adding.
I could be wrong, but I don't recall anything promoting the "up to" 100 HD channels until CES in Jan '07. They made a big splash about it at the show (I was there). If I recall correctly, at the show they claimed that they would have 150 channels, then adjusted the claim to have the "capacity" for 150 channels.

[Tom Robertson]

I had the pleasure of meeting Richard at CES (it truly was a pleasure). Being aware of the capacity of 150 channels, I always interpreted a mispeak as meant to be capacity, not reality; they pushed the nearly signed agreements for 70 channels more than the 150, IMHO.

I will go back to an important thing: No matter who has the count lead today, everyone has benefited from the approach BOTH companies have brought to the table.

Dish was able to bring more Nationals sooner thru shrewd business decisions and DIRECTV was able to bring more HD LILs thru their shrewd business decisions. I applaud both of them! :)

Who is the leader? Who cares! I have HD locals and HD nationals. (and one other important package.) I'm good!

I hope all of you are good too,
Tom

[Richard King]

I had the pleasure of meeting Richard at CES (it truly was a pleasure). Being aware of the capacity of 150 channels, I always interpreted a mispeak as meant to be capacity, not reality; they pushed the nearly signed agreements for 70 channels more than the 150, IMHO.

I will go back to an important thing: No matter who has the count lead today, everyone has benefited from the approach BOTH companies have brought to the table.

Dish was able to bring more Nationals sooner thru shrewd business decisions and DIRECTV was able to bring more HD LILs thru their shrewd business decisions. I applaud both of them! :)

Who is the leader? Who cares! I have HD locals and HD nationals. (and one other important package.) I'm good!

I hope all of you are good too,
TomVERY well stated. Ain't competition grand. By the way, it was my pleasure. :D

[braven]

DISH has 15 or so exclusive channels that are full-time HD plus NHL Network.

DIRECTV has 27 exclusive channels that average considerably less than 50% HD programming (some still offer none IIRC).

It would appear based on some very rough numbers that DISH offers more.




With this said. I still wouldn't trade D* current HD lineup with E*'s. NO WAY.

[msmith198025]

But there does seem to be a blindness to the lies of D*. They have created their own HD channels from SD feeds. In their rush to meet their "promised" over 70 target they put up feeds that did not exist. And we have heard D* fanboys (not the company, but members of this forum) admit that these were non-HD source and defend these "upconvert" channels as "better than SD".

Sorry, but D*'s advertising isn't "over 70 better than SD" channels. It is over 70 HD channels. HD in HD is the standard they should be living up to. D* is putting out press releases as well that could use a little less channel padding.

.

James as of last night there are very few if any of the channels that dont show at least some HD now. How many people that wanted to watch Nip/Tuck in hd did so on E* last night? See, on D* you could. It even had the nice little FX HD logo:) They are coming along nicely

[Richard King]

With this said. I still wouldn't trade D* current HD lineup with E*'s. NO WAY.
That is ALL that matters. If YOU are happy with YOUR services then YOU are in the right place. I happen to prefer what Dish carries ONLY because I don't even watch the channels that Directv added in HD in their SD formats. I have no interest in them, but I have a GREAT interest in channels such as RAVE. If Directv started carrying Rave I might even consider a switch, but then I would be switching for something that I already have and for a bunch of channels that I wouldn't watch (normally). The LINEUP is what matters, not the NUMBERS (although I still want someone to do the minute by minute calculations). :D

[James Long]

See - discussion is good. You again excuse DISH with a "so what", then condem DirecTV. My reply - So What.I am still waiting for you to be honest about D*'s deceptions.

You seem to be willing to throw stones at E* ... large nasty worded posts attacking not only the company but the E* forum regulars for something that is entirely out of our control. But you are blind to D*'s deceptions.

Don't tell us the "truth" until you are ready to face it. :)

James as of last night there are very few if any of the channels that dont show at least some HD now. How many people that wanted to watch Nip/Tuck in hd did so on E* last night? See, on D* you could. It even had the nice little FX HD logo:) They are coming along nicelyYes ... it is nice to see that some HD is finally appearing on those channels. The more HD they get the more encouraged E* will be to add them. :)

[msmith198025]

Yes ... it is nice to see that some HD is finally appearing on those channels. The more HD they get the more encouraged E* will be to add them. :)

This was true as of the time you said all they were putting up was feeds that did not exist. When in fact they did. Even before today it did on most. It was a generalized statement that was mostly false. IMHO
Just seems to me that they are living up to the "HD standard"

[James Long]

So it is true that the channels were put up before they were HD. :)

[msmith198025]

So it is true that the channels were put up before they were HD. :)

on a very few of them, yes they went up a few days before actual HD was broadcast on them, but the channels were still upconverted to a HD resolution with plans to put "true HD" on in a few days. Its called being prepared. The large majority of them had at least some HD on them from the very first day though. If people want to focus on the one or two that didnt to try and justify what E* is doing now, I guess thats ok too, but IMO there is a huge difference between the two.

[paulman182]

There is no winning this argument for D* supporters.

E* fans will always find something to pick at. They got so used to being the "HD Leader" that they even want us to count HD minutes per day. Imagine! As if D* were responsible for what the providers are showing on their HD channels.

I"m sure someday E* will be back to a point where HD leadership is debatable. Maybe then more reasonable arguments will be presented.

[Richard King]

they even want us to count HD minutes per day. Imagine!I THINK I was joking when I suggested that, however if you would like to count the minutes feel free. Just don't forget to account for all the SD commercials. :D This whole battle is just rediculous and silly anyway. If your current provider gives you what you want stay, if not switch. If you are in a contract wait it out and then switch (or buy it out if you are very unhappy). Channel counts and minute counts are insane. Program CONTENT is what matters.

[msmith198025]

I THINK I was joking when I suggested that, however if you would like to count the minutes feel free. Just don't forget to account for all the SD commercials. :D This whole battle is just rediculous and silly anyway. If your current provider gives you what you want stay, if not switch. If you are in a contract wait it out and then switch (or buy it out if you are very unhappy). Channel counts and minute counts are insane. Program CONTENT is what matters.

you THINK you were joking? :p

[James Long]

He hopes he was joking! :D

Anyways, I agree. Let the companies (both of them) lie all they want.
I've got the HD I want and the price I want. And I could not be happier.

[msmith198025]

He hopes he was joking! :D

Anyways, I agree. Let the companies (both of them) lie all they want.
I've got the HD I want and the price I want. And I could not be happier.

YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

[braven]

He hopes he was joking! :D

Anyways, I agree. Let the companies (both of them) lie all they want.
I've got the HD I want and the price I want. And I could not be happier.


At the end of the day, that's all that matters!