To MDU or not to MDU

[Fly Navy]

I live in a condo building (11 units). The building is relatively new (3 years) and the developer fitted out the entire building with hookups to D*. We share a dish and OTA antennae on the roof but everyone manages their accounts individually. There are several multiswitches in the utility room that distributes the sat signal to each unit. We each have two wires coming into each unit.

When I called D* to upgrade my receiver from the HR10 to the HR20 I told the CSR that I lived in a condo building. The CSR was very perplexed that my account was not a "MDU account" and seemed very hesitant to make any changes to my account and allow me to upgrade my receiver. I explained to him that we shared a dish but managed our accounts separately.

So, my question is, is there any benefit to having D* change our accounts to be MDU accounts? And how would that change the way everyone manages their D* accounts?

[Earl Bonovich]

How many lines are going to each unit?

[Fly Navy]

How many lines are going to each unit?

Two lines to each unit.

[Earl Bonovich]

At this point in the game:

2 WB616 Multiswitches... ~ $150 each
1 set of 4 splitters... ~$20

New ATU-Slimline Dish... $100 (or what ever)..

Then you will have the MPEG-4 access to all the units, with no change in any type of your "management".

You will lose the ability to diplex the OTA signal in though.

The only way to keep the OTA diplexing is to go to an MFH-2 solution (Which isn't available yet)... but that would also mean upgrading all receivers to be SWM ready as well as the cost for the MFH-2 solution.


I think with that few units... you are better off going with the above updated multiswitch method.... after determining your units NEED for the OTA access vs the cost to keep it there.

(There is a way you could diplex in the OTA, via B-Band converter placements at a different spot.... but I would do that only on a case by case basis)

[Fly Navy]

Thanks Earl! Extremely helpful and knowledgeable as always.

[Earl Bonovich]

Thanks Earl! Extremely helpful and knowledgeable as always.

No problem... and :welcome_s

[AntAltMike]

I live in a condo building (11 units). The building is relatively new (3 years) and the developer fitted out the entire building with hookups to D*. We share a dish and OTA antennae on the roof but everyone manages their accounts individually. There are several multiswitches in the utility room that distributes the sat signal to each unit. We each have two wires coming into each unit.

When I called D* to upgrade my receiver from the HR10 to the HR20 I told the CSR that I lived in a condo building. The CSR was very perplexed that my account was not a "MDU account" and seemed very hesitant to make any changes to my account and allow me to upgrade my receiver. I explained to him that we shared a dish but managed our accounts separately.

So, my question is, is there any benefit to having D* change our accounts to be MDU accounts? And how would that change the way everyone manages their D* accounts?

What you ran into was confusion. Any multiple dwelling unit can become a "DirecTV MDU" if a local DirecTV MDU system operator enters into an agreement with the HOA to make it one. But in doing so, terms are negotiated to assure that the sysem operator makes money on the deal, and there isn't much money to be made by a system operator on such a small MDU.

The problem you now face with upgrades is that DirecTV pays most of the people it sends out flat rates for performing various services, but those installers will not be outfitted to deal with the complexities of an MDU situation, nor has any arrangement been made to compensate them for anything extra that they might have to do do upgrade the services for the customer, even if they were able and willing to do so.

Almost surely, the dish antenna and multiswitch system you now have in place does not distribute the new Ka band signals that are used for DirecTV's new national, HDTV channels. Eventually your HOA will have to address that limitation. For the last year or so, I have been discouraging my MDU customers from having me "upgrade" their DirecTV community antenna systems because I knew that whatever I did would be awkward to use at present and obsolete as soon as the newer (MFH, SWM) technologies became available.

Realistically, what you need to immediately make the Ka signals available is a new dish antenna and "WB" multiswitch installed at the juction area. That will immediately enable you to support two DirecTV tuners in each unit, so as long as that is all you need, you can then call DirecTV and tell them that while you are in a large building, you have your own WB68 multiswitch and AU9 antenna and you only need the HD receiver installed. You can fully support only one two tuner HR2(X) or two H2(X)s, or you can even support one tuner in an HR2(X) and one additional H2(X). But you won't be able to simultaneously support even one more standard deefinition tuner. If you ask for any more than that, you will wind up with a "busted" installation. I think the installer gets something like $45 for an installation that can't be done, and while I don't think you get immediately penalized, such a failed installation would surely be posted somewhere in your account notes and would impede the scheduling of a subsequent upgrade attempt.

Once the SWM modules are obtainable, you can have an independent installer furnish and put them in as needed.

[DirecTv Chicago]

I live in a condo building (11 units). The building is relatively new (3 years) and the developer fitted out the entire building with hookups to D*. We share a dish and OTA antennae on the roof but everyone manages their accounts individually. There are several multiswitches in the utility room that distributes the sat signal to each unit. We each have two wires coming into each unit.

When I called D* to upgrade my receiver from the HR10 to the HR20 I told the CSR that I lived in a condo building. The CSR was very perplexed that my account was not a "MDU account" and seemed very hesitant to make any changes to my account and allow me to upgrade my receiver. I explained to him that we shared a dish but managed our accounts separately.

So, my question is, is there any benefit to having D* change our accounts to be MDU accounts? And how would that change the way everyone manages their D* accounts?

It is hit or miss dependent on who you receive at DirecTV's customer support. They are not versed in the dealings of MDU account as they are in single dish residential homes.

As a previous poster indicated an MDU account is basically created so that your account number allows for commission and monthly residuals to go back to the dealer. Most of the time the dealer requests a CID from either DirecTV or the system operator and that is how they track their commissions.

However if the customer is not provided that number they still can setup service on your system as long as they get the right customer service rep at DirecTV.

The bigger problem is DTH Bulk accounts. That may be why they are hesitant of changing your account. They think that when they are changing MDU accounts they are changing the accounts for the entire building. It's a pain when that happens.

[Earl Bonovich]

Guys remember... this is an 11 unit installation....

From a hardware point of view... it is not very different then what I have running in my single house.. (I have 10 active units).

The overhead and all the other aspects of it being treated as a larger MDU...
Is the question....

With each unit handling their own accounts... you take away a lot of the headaches... and give each unit a lot more flexibility in selecting their packages and handling their accounts... ect.

[gadgetfreaky]

These guys are selling MFH-2 now.
http://www.pdisat.com/mfh2.html.

[Earl Bonovich]

These guys are selling MFH-2 now.
http://www.pdisat.com/mfh2.

Bad Link

IIRC: They are only taking pre-orders right now...

And MFH2 is going to be a LOT more expensive for this particular situation... then just using two WB616's and 4 splitters...

[RobertE]

I'd go with Earls suggestion.

In addition, I would add a second slimline as well for a backup. I would either run a 50/50 split between the two dishes or just have one as a hot spare. If one ever dies, someone would only need to swap lines until a replacement can be put in place. Hot spares are nice. :)

[Tom Robertson]

While I agree in principle with 2 wb616s for now, my concern is about just two lines per unit restricts each unit to two tuners. I'd never make it with just two tuners. :)

So ultimately some SWM solution will be necessary, tho it might not be a full blown MDU setup.

The FMC-6 (supports 6 SWM8s) looks way cool. :)

Cheers,
Tom

[Earl Bonovich]

Given that they have two lines to each unit...

The 2 WB616's will cover them for a pretty good while until the MFH-2 solutions are more readily available.

[Fly Navy]

Thanks for all the great input! My primary goal right now is to get MPEG-4 capability with the least amount of $$ and pain and it sounds like Earl's solution gives me that. I was initially concerned that it would be prohibitively expensive and I was stuck with none of the new HD channels. Sounds like I'll need to eventually get smarter on the SWM solutions that are coming down the road.

The 2 lines per unit is frustrating and until I started doing all my research (mostly on DBSTalk) I really didn't understand the limitations. I have one HR10-250 downstairs and another small LCD in the b-room which I can't hook up to D* since the 10-250 uses both lines (ya gotta have DLB!). I always thought I could just throw another multiswitch on there and I'd be good. I now know that's not the case.

So my workaround is the Radio Shack special. I get most local OTA channels but have problems with multipath whenever a bus drives by (we're on the street in the city) or the helo from the hospital flys over. Really frustrating watching baseball when the count is 3-2 and the pitch...

[Earl Bonovich]

When the MFH2 (SWM solutions) are available...

With those two runs to each unit... you will eventually be able to run:
8 DVRs per unit (16 tuners).

As you could hookup a dedicated 8ch SWM to each of those lines...

So yes, I would probably spend the $500 or so to get you up to MPEG-4 for now... and wait till the MFH2 and SWM is all available... and then upgrade then for the $$$ (start saving it now, or get it into your MDU's 2008 budget)

[Fly Navy]

Am I correct in assuming that D* would not be the ones to go through to replace our current setup with the WB616's to get MPEG-4 support? I do know that DirectSat (?) is the local D* contractor. Should I contact them directly? Just trying to figure out where to start.... I assume this isn't a do it yourself job.

[Earl Bonovich]

Well... you could do it yourself...

The WB616 method, isn't all that difficult.

You would probably want to contact DirectSat directly... or just look for a local installer that could help you out with it.

[kd4ao]

I am somewhat confused by the MDU arrangement in that it appears for a small building (12 units) where perhaps only 3 or 4 will go with D*, that we are expected to buy a multiswitch and 1 or 2 SWM's where as if we each lived in a standalone house D* would provide the switches with installation.

I have been the only D* subscriber in this condo for over 12 years and have always done my own thing. I am finally getting 3 or 4 of my neighbors interested in D*. Each condo unit has a single coax going in except mine which I was able fish a second coax into. I think if each potential new subscriber can get 2 or 3 tuners active they will be happy. (I have HR20 and 2-H20's but only one tuner on HR20 and only 1 H20 are in use, just waiting on SWM for my setup.) So at this point the interested neighbors are using COM* cable and not to happy especially after seeing what I have from D*. I don't really know what to to further prepare for the upcoming release of SWM, just wait.

A little more info, additional coax feeds into units is nearly impossible as the coax is fed thru conduit from utility room to each first floor unit and then up thru the wall to 2nd and 3rd floor. The conduit is only capable of carrying 3 coaxes. A second conduit carries phone lines, this is how I was able to get a 2nd coax into my unit. The conduits are under ground and are about 25 feet long to 2 units and about 40 feet to 2 others. The building is 12 units, 4 across and 3 high.

I would appreciate comments and suggestions on how to proceed. I can tell you that the Condo association is not a problem except they would like us to use a single dish which is mounted above the elevator, out of sight. And of course, no exposed cable on the outside of the building. Thanks.

[doctor j]

Wait for SWM.
Each unit could get 4 -8 tuners with OTA with just one coax feed.
Will not start rolling out for another 1 to 6 weeks but will be able to do all you want soon.
Will have to work thru D* MDU provider. Need to begin investigation as to who that is and how much it may cost.
Primary outlay may be $200 to $500 per unit but costs may be able to spread out over 2 year contract.

Doctor j

[kd4ao]

Thanks for the response, I know that the SWM will solve the problem. However, if a single family house owner gets an SWM included in the installation for no cost and a condo unit owner must pay for it then I am going to suggest to my neighbors that they stay with cable and I will also become an ex D* subscriber.