New HD Channel Reception Nightmare

[jayco59]

I believe DTV has an issue that might require some lawyers to fix!
Here's my story...
Back in November 2006 I upgraded to the 5-LNB Dish in preparation for the new HD Sat's going up and I also upgraded my 3 Receivers to the new HD MPEG 4 units including a new HD DVR. As we all know just last month (October '07) they finally got around to turning on the new HD channels and low and behold I don't receive them very well, like almost not at all, and if it's cloudy forget it! So I call DTV and the conclusion is I need a dish realignment, $70.00 please because the original installation is passed the 90 day warrantee period! I say no way, the initial installation was faulty and I had no way of truly verifying it since the new sat's weren't even "up" for me to do a verification of the installation. I did some research and I discovered that the alignment procedure for the new k-band sat's is more detailed and difficult in order to capture the signal from the narrower k-band beam pattern).
Well the DTV rep was not buying it and gave me several lectures on installers must be paid for their work and she can't give me a free realignment and she actually became quite belligerent so I demanded to speak with her supervisor. She claimed that she was a supervisor and that she’ll fill out a form to have a higher level manager call me back. Which according DTV can be 2 weeks! Well it’s been over one week and still no call back! As you can imagine I'm not at all happy with DTV.
The bottom line is they’re making people pay for faulty installations in situations that they could not have possible determined were faulty. I smell a class action lawsuit!
Does anyone have any idea’s that can help me with my situation or have had a like experience?

Unhappy Customer in Connecticut!

[248 F1]

The bottom line is they’re making people pay for faulty installations in situations that they could not have possible determined were faulty. I smell a class action lawsuit!
Does anyone have any idea’s that can help me with my situation or have had a like experience? Unhappy Customer in Connecticut!

You'll have to prove it was installed improperly or that it was installed properly and that it didn't move as a result of ..?.?... , Why not just pay the $70.00 and enjoy the programming. We're breeding a litigious society.

[HDTVsportsfan]

I can understand your frustration. And I don't want to come accross as argumentive. There is no excuse for them not calling you back. Also, if the original install was a year ago....that makes it tough for a warranty call. Maybe it wasn't aligned properly or maybe high winds have slightly moved it or whatever the dish is mounted to has moved. There are alot of variables involved.

Also, what are your signal strenghts. Just because you can't receive all of the new HD channels isn't an argument that holds much water that it was not initially setup properly. D* will simply say there are tools within the menu that could have been used to check the signal strenghts long ago.

I'm trying not present this like D* may not have fault in this or take up for them. The biggest thing again is it has been a year.
Even though this initial installation may not have been done properly. Do you feel at all comfortable fine tuning the dish yourself. I know you feel you shouldn't have to, but it may be quite easy for you to do.

Do you have your locals in HD from D*?
Do you recieve any of the new HD channels.

Also a friendly reminder...the rules and moderation won't tolerate to much more talk about lawsuits. That has been a long standing policy.

We are here to help. Hopefully the rest of the group can help you w/ this.

Good Luck.

[rohenk]

Same thing happened to me 2 weeks ago. But after having 2 CSRs tell me about the warranty I was switched to a manager who immediately gave me a free realignment once I said it effected the new HD channels. Apparently the warranty rules do not apply to a new HD channel problem. So it was realigned at no charge. The CSRs had no clue and wanted to sell me the extended warranty.

Clearly DirecTV has serious lack of knowledge problems with their CSRs and possibly managers. Sometimes it is just a matter of trying a few times until you draw someone with a clue.

Good luck.

[Drewg5]

:nono2: Call call call again until you get the help you want/need. After a year of happy service your having a problem, they owe you nothing at this point for your home. Almost no consumer electronics come with a warranty longer than one year. Sorry you feel that D* owes you something they do not, if you keep pushing they may do it free they may not.

[LarryFlowers]

There is a simple solution to your problem...

Your situation is not at all unique. After 103B went live I had to have a dish realignment. There were hundreds in just this forum that had to do the same thing.

Many did it themselves. Many called to get it done and it was done at no charge because we pay a monthly maintenance fee (this was my case).

Many called and paid a $15.00 fee, joined the monthly maintenance program and got a free alignment.

There are many solutions to this problem... get on the telephone and make another call, be nice to the CSR ( dont abuse the CSR's, they are working stiffs like the rest of us) if the CSR cant help ask to talk to a supervisor or retention and you will get the help you need.

This isn't a conspiracy... new satellite and your dish needs realignment, thats it.

[K4SMX]

.....So I call DTV and the conclusion is I need a dish realignment.....
How did they arrive at this conclusion? Have you been receiving HD locals all this time? If so, for what city? Please post your signal strengths from the from MENU BUTTON > HELP & SETTINGS > SETUP > SAT & ANT > View Signal Strength for the 99(b), 103(a), and 103(b) satellites.

[glennb]

I believe DTV has an issue that might require some lawyers to fix!
:rolleyes:

As we all know just last month (October '07) they finally got around to turning on the new HD channels....
Yeah, They waited that long just to tick you off.

....and she actually became quite belligerent....
I'm sure you were calm and cool on the phone the whole time.

I smell a class action lawsuit!
I better not say what I smell.

Seems like a lot of drama over $70.

[jayco59]

I appreciate the responses both pro and con.

Let me just say, that some times it not just the money but that you need to do what you feel is right in your gut. I would spin it, is $70 worth DTV losing a customer who pays $100/ month in service fees?

As far as the dish goes, may signal strengths were all around 20 for the 103b (on a clear day). The 119, 110 and 101 were all up in the 85 to 95 range. After doing some reserch on this forum and others I actually did climb up on the roof and tweek the vertical alignment. I noticed one of the two vertical lock down bolt was loose and I was able to tweek the adjustment to get values in the mid to upper 50's without losing anything on the others sats. So at this point my new HD channels are watchable in most conditions but they will still drop out on rainy\cloudy days.

Also I do get local HD's and most of the time they come in but I've always had pretty bad rain fade on some of them (I'm in the Hartford, Ct area). I still have not gotten a call back from anyone at DTV, so I guess I'll call them and plead my case again.

Thanks again for the comments...

[brucegrr]

Only 70.00? Let DirecTv do that a 1000 times a month and that's almost a Million dollars in a year. Not chump change. Sometimes, it is not about the amount......it is the principle.

The installer should make sure the signal levels are right. In my case the installer had no idea how to make sure they were right or for that matter to set it up. I did the on screen set up and signal checks. The installer watched.

The length of time from install to problem seems to be the sticking point. Seems to be a good argument for the protection plan.

[K4SMX]

Since you had HD locals at the time of the original install, that would have been the time to complain. The Hartford-New Haven HD locals are on 103(a), so you should have one or two tp's in the 90's on that satellite. You probably don't, however, based on your 103(b) #'s. They were probably just enough to get by at the time of the original install.

Frankly, I wouldn't get too bent out of shape over $70 at this point. Let's put it this way, I wouldn't align your dish for only $70. As "veryoldschool" would say, "It's not fair!"

I see you were posting to this forum back then, so I'm surprised you weren't forewarned about this issue. Glad you made it back here, even though it was later rather than sooner, and welcome back to DBSTalk.com!

[jgrade]

I had a similar situation last month (103(b) in the low 30's) and retention gave me a 70 credit for the tech visit. HOWEVER, although I was 6 months outside the 90 day period, my extensive account history about the poor quality of prior visits warranted another visit for free. It did take some complaining and a call back after not receiving the credit, but it is all correct now. The previous 6 techs (over 11 months) were not very good (to be polite). The last tech looked at the signal strengths and without arguing about hardware, wiring, etc he said the dish needed realignment. Well low and behold the last techs used a single monopole and did not tighten down most screws. The dish was so loose the tech could move it using his pinky.

Bottom line, I would have agreed to the 70 tech visit any way, but after the last installer was there, I would have called D back and asked for a credit based on an incomplete install. This may be a better route than trying to sue the 500lb gorilla. The techs notes clearly state the the prior installation was not proper.

Glad to hear you were able to solve your problem without having to get litigious.

[Milominderbinder2]

...I was able to tweak the adjustment to get values in the mid to upper 50's...50's is not nearly good enough. You need 85-95 on the 103b.

A thought on the alignment...

Is your dish properly installed? Is there a ground block on the outside of your house as it comes into you house? Is there a thick wire coming off of the ground block going to a gas or water pipe or ground rod?

This will show you what you are looking for:

Grounding Requirements (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=941620#post941620)

The ground block and separate ground wire are highlighted in yellow and green.

If the dish was not properly grounded, it does not meet national or local electrical code. They may come out for free in that case and do the alignment at the same time.

If you would have paid the $6 a month since last year, you would have spent $72 versus the $70 fee. If you ask to add the $6 a month service now, they may do the alignment for cheap either now or in 30 days.

- Craig

[jayco59]

50's is not nearly good enough. You need 85-95 on the 103b.


I agree, I was hoping to get it higher but that was the best I could get with just doing a simple adjustment in the one axis. I didn't have the "guts" to start from scratch and do a complete alignment since I've never done it before. I didn't want to end up with NO reception and have the wrath of the Family on me!:)
My reception has improved and I am able to see the HD channels when it's clear and with some minor cloudiness. I'm still hoping to convince DTV to come out and do it for nothing! That reminds me I have to call them again to remind them that have not called me back. The 2 weeks is up!
I'll check on the grounding of the dish, I installed my OTA antenna and I know I grounded that antenna.
Thanks for the advice.
J

[jayco59]

Well I called back one more time to ask when I would be called back by a supervisor and the SR said that there were no notes about calling me and the line I got about having the supervisor call me back was just that, a line.
Anyway, We compromised by having me sign up for the service plan and they will give me $5.00 off my bill for the next 6 months to compensate for the $15.00 fee and for my troubles.
I was never in this to make money just to get my HD channels so I guess I'm ok with this. I just wish the first rep I spoke to was as reasonable as this rep was. I guess it's the luck of the draw when you call.
Thanks again to everyone who worked this out with me. Hopefully the realignment will go well! With the info I’ve gotten from your responses I’ll be ready to check signal strengths and grounding to make sure it’s good before he goes.

Jay

[Ext 721]

I believe DTV has an issue that might require some lawyers to fix!
Here's my story...
Back in November 2006 I upgraded to the 5-LNB Dish in preparation for the new HD Sat's going up and I also upgraded my 3 Receivers to the new HD MPEG 4 units including a new HD DVR. As we all know just last month (October '07) they finally got around to turning on the new HD channels and low and behold I don't receive them very well, like almost not at all, and if it's cloudy forget it! So I call DTV and the conclusion is I need a dish realignment, $70.00 please because the original installation is passed the 90 day warrantee period! I say no way, the initial installation was faulty and I had no way of truly verifying it since the new sat's weren't even "up" for me to do a verification of the installation. I did some research and I discovered that the alignment procedure for the new k-band sat's is more detailed and difficult in order to capture the signal from the narrower k-band beam pattern).
Well the DTV rep was not buying it and gave me several lectures on installers must be paid for their work and she can't give me a free realignment and she actually became quite belligerent so I demanded to speak with her supervisor. She claimed that she was a supervisor and that she’ll fill out a form to have a higher level manager call me back. Which according DTV can be 2 weeks! Well it’s been over one week and still no call back! As you can imagine I'm not at all happy with DTV.
The bottom line is they’re making people pay for faulty installations in situations that they could not have possible determined were faulty. I smell a class action lawsuit!
Does anyone have any idea’s that can help me with my situation or have had a like experience?

Unhappy Customer in Connecticut!

you're here. tune your receiver to the 103b signal meter, and slightly loosen the elevation bolts.

Now turn one adjustment screw (has a numbered dial) to peak the signal one way, and the other to peak it the other way.

no money spent, and in the time it takes to DRIVE to a law office, your problem is gone.

I can turn my (slimline) alignment screws a whole revolution and get less than a 3% difference in signal. That tells me any idiot can do it.

As for peaking the dish without the screws? still easy. I don't see what the big deal is about the 5-lnb...it's as easy to align as the triple, all things considered.

[Ext 721]

Only 70.00? Let DirecTv do that a 1000 times a month and that's almost a Million dollars in a year. Not chump change. Sometimes, it is not about the amount......it is the principle.

The installer should make sure the signal levels are right. In my case the installer had no idea how to make sure they were right or for that matter to set it up. I did the on screen set up and signal checks. The installer watched.

The length of time from install to problem seems to be the sticking point. Seems to be a good argument for the protection plan.

yep. now since D* pays the installation co's about $90 or so to do it (of which the installer sees about half, not including their gasoline and insurance costs)

directv at 1000 service calls a month at $70 loses about a quarter million a year.
not chump change.

...did you think they PROFITED off that?

[siloreed]

I found this thread when I was unable to tune in National Geographic HD (276). I checked the signal strength on all satellites and found some problems with 103b only. I assumed the problem was with the dish's fine tuning and called D*. The tech noticed I had more than one HR20 installed and asked me to to tune 276 HD on second tuner. That worked and I found signal strenth for 103b was in the 90s on the second receiver. The tech scheduled a repair because he thought the problem could be in the wiring on the first receiver (its a refurb). He said if I was ambitious I could disconnect the sat inputs on the first receiver and touch the wire to ground them. He didn't think this would work, but I went ahead and attempted it anyway.

While I was digging around in equipment rack I discovered that both sat inputs were still going through old diplexers. I removed the diplexers and found that 103b's signal strength jumped into the 90s and NGHD came in fine! I recalled reading that the diplexers were no longer used with the new multi-switch so I assume this is the root cause of my problem.

[Guttboy]

50's is not nearly good enough. You need 85-95 on the 103b.

A thought on the alignment...

Is your dish properly installed? Is there a ground block on the outside of your house as it comes into you house? Is there a thick wire coming off of the ground block going to a gas or water pipe or ground rod?

This will show you what you are looking for:

Grounding Requirements (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=941620#post941620)

The ground block and separate ground wire are highlighted in yellow and green.

If the dish was not properly grounded, it does not meet national or local electrical code. They may come out for free in that case and do the alignment at the same time.

If you would have paid the $6 a month since last year, you would have spent $72 versus the $70 fee. If you ask to add the $6 a month service now, they may do the alignment for cheap either now or in 30 days.

- Craig

Milo......the grounding issue....WOW.....

This site was invaluable for that.....My house in NM was new construction and after posting here as a newbie the folks here really hooked me up in time for the install.....

With that being said....the installer did NOT install the grounding wire until I mentioned it....he stated that it was NOT necessary!!!!!!

Thankfully for the information here I had him just hook it up....I had the ground prewired to the roof so it was an easy thing to do but it amazed me he didn't want to do this.

Back on topic......

If it were me.....I would talk to D*.....get the protection plan....then have them come out and fix your problems....think of it this way, you get service to make sure you can enjoy the HD programming you are paying for and want to have.....cost of doing business in my mind.

I was 100% against the PP but after returning to D* I am glad I have it ....at least for peace of mind.

[jayco59]

[QUOTE=Guttboy;1277392]
If it were me.....I would talk to D*.....get the protection plan....then have them come out and fix your problems....think of it this way, you get service to make sure you can enjoy the HD programming you are paying for and want to have.....cost of doing business in my mind.
[QUOTE]

That's exactly what I did!

And on the grounding issue...There is no earth ground from the Sat dish to a grounding pole on the outside of the house, only a signal ground that comes into the house and then is grounded to a cold water pipe via a grounding block. I guess my installer will be busy tomorrow fixing what the first installer didn't do! Doesn't D* check up on their installers to verify they do correct work!

[jayco59]

Well the Installation guy came and completely realigned the antenna. He had to start by plumbing the post and he added a support to make it sturdier, then he completely re-did the Az and El. At this point all my signal levels for the 103b are all 90 and above!:hurah:

The only issue left is the grounding. I mentioned to the guy that I thought there needed to be a wire from the dish to earth and that the grounding blocks should be outside the house. He completely blew me off and said that the grounding I have is adequate. I guess I need to contact D* again to see what their spin on it is. The one thing I learned is to complain and often! If you sit there and take it and wait to complain they don't believe you ever had an issue when you finally can't take it any longer. I hate to be a pest but you have to play the "Game" the way they make you.

[K4SMX]

What a struggle. They will do the grounding correctly, if you tell D* how it is now, which not only is not in accordance with any version of the NEC, but I'm sure not even D*'s somewhat less specific guidelines for installers. No grounding blocks allowed inside the house.

[stuay]

Call and ask for the customer retention department. They have a lot more leeway and the ability to think a bit out side the box. They should be able to help you.