D* HD DVR vs TiVo Series 3

[mattopia]

Hi all,

I'm debating on whether or not I should change from cable (Cox Cleveland) to D*. I'd love to have SciFi HD before BSG Razor airs.... :)

Anyway, I currently use a TiVo Series3 for my DVR'ing needs. I can't help but assume I'll be loosing some functionality going from my Series3 to the HR20 or HR21.

I'm curious if anyone who has used an HR20/HR21 and a TiVo (any TiVo really -- functionality is pretty much the same across S2/S3/HD versions of their box) can comment?

I'll probably keep the Series3 for OTA recording anyway, since I paid for 3 years of service up front (it was a steal at the time).

Matt

[JLucPicard]

The biggest thing that is mentioned is Dual Live Buffers. Some can't live without them, some move on and live just fine. :)

I've had many versions of DirecTivos and still have three stand alones (Series 2), not to mention two HR10-250s and an SDDVR80, and I am just fine with the HR20/21. You'll probably get some pretty strong opinions both ways, but this being a DirecTV forum, I wouldn't be surprised if things leaned that way.

Given the HD avialable, as well as DirecTV on Demand, remote booking capabilites coming soon, etc., I don't think you'll regret switching to D* unless you are one of the "can't live without TiVo" folks.

Good luck with your decision. And welcome to DBSTalk! :welcome_s

[michaelyork29]

Hi all,

I'm debating on whether or not I should change from cable (Cox Cleveland) to D*. I'd love to have SciFi HD before BSG Razor airs.... :)

Anyway, I currently use a TiVo Series3 for my DVR'ing needs. I can't help but assume I'll be loosing some functionality going from my Series3 to the HR20 or HR21.

I'm curious if anyone who has used an HR20/HR21 and a TiVo (any TiVo really -- functionality is pretty much the same across S2/S3/HD versions of their box) can comment?

I'll probably keep the Series3 for OTA recording anyway, since I paid for 3 years of service up front (it was a steal at the time).

Matt

:welcome_s to DBSTalk.com!

[carl6]

There are a number of DirecTV Plus versus Tivo discussion threads. A little searching should find you a lot of reading.

The HR20/21 is a stable and reliable product. The major differences between the two are:

1. Dual Live Buffers. HR20/21 has dual tuners, but only one live buffer. You can't toggle between two live programs.
2. Graphical User Interface (GUI) - completely different between the two.
3. Menu structure - completely different between the two.
4. The HR20/21 is the only DVR capable of receiving and recording DirecTV's new HD channels.

Items 2 and 3 are issues you can get used to.
Item 4 is critical if that is the programming you want.

Carl

[dbhsatx]

I was a Tivo user for many years and was surprised by the differences when I got the hr20 last April. I found dbstalk and the tivo to hr20 survivors guide shortly after. It did take some getting used to but to tell the truth I can bearly remember how to use the tivo in the bebroom now. I have read post from others about how much better the tivo is. Though that may be true the hr20 is a fine DVR that has features I find more valuable than what I lost with the switch.

[Stuart Sweet]

4. The HR20/21 is the only DVR capable of receiving and recording DirecTV's new HD channels.
Carl

I think that number four pretty much makes any discussion of numbers 1-3 irrelevant.

[Peapod]

There are workarounds to get closer to the effect of dual live buffers -- all of which require temporarily recording both buffers, and deleting when done. Search for DLB and you should find some examples, or send me a PM and I will send you my setup.

[jmh139]

I have had a Tivo since they first came out. I still have 2 directv Tivos, but added a HR20 a month or so ago. I never used dual buffers, so that did not make a difference to me.

I actually like the HR20. I still have all my season passes replicated on the Tivo's just in case though. But it actually works very well. One of the BEST features it has over the Tivo is the ability to cancel either program that was scheduled when you try to record a third program.

The HD is beautiful on Directv, and I cannot wait for Razor either!

[Peapod]

Actually, the thing I dislike the most about the HR20 compared to the TiVo is the DirecTV grid guide. I much prefer the TiVo-style list guide. Of course, if you use the grid guide on your TiVo (some people prefer it), you won't really notice that difference at all.

[mattopia]

Thank you al for the helpful input, and for the warm welcome!

I did some more searching and found the "TiVo to HR20 survival guide" that was mentioned. Very helpful!

I see in the survival guide that online/remote scheduling is also available -- great! I also see in the survival guide that they have a single-cable multi switch so I don't need to have another RG6 run for the dua tuners. Is that correct?

I've never used dual tuner buffer in the Series3, so I'm pretty sure I won't miss that.

I will, however, miss wish lists. I have a few favorite actors/actresses that I have wish lists set up for. It looks like that's a TiVo patented feature so I'm guessing I won't have that.

Now I just have to continue to press D* to try and get a better price. I've been following the HR20/HR21 ordering guide, but as a new subscriber haven't gotten anything better than their current online offer.

[jmh139]

Ah, I forgot about this. The guide is bad, compared to the Tivo one. I found out that you can arrow over to the channel and press info to get a list of everything that is coming up. It works OK, but you get so much more information with the Tivo style guide.

Actually, the thing I dislike the most about the HR20 compared to the TiVo is the DirecTV grid guide. I much prefer the TiVo-style list guide. Of course, if you use the grid guide on your TiVo (some people prefer it), you won't really notice that difference at all.

[Peapod]

Ah, I forgot about this. The guide is bad, compared to the Tivo one. I found out that you can arrow over to the channel and press info to get a list of everything that is coming up. It works OK, but you get so much more information with the Tivo style guide.

Yes, but hitting Info, waiting for the list to populate, backing out to the grid, selecting the next channel and hitting Info again and waiting again is PAINFUL.

[Keeska]

Ah, I forgot about this. The guide is bad, compared to the Tivo one.For me the Tivo guide is bad. I was very happy to be able to switch it off on the HR10 and happy to see the HR20 didn't have the Tivo guide. The Tivo guide is a matter of personal preference - it is not of itself better or worse then the current HR20 guide.

[Peapod]

The Tivo guide is a matter of personal preference - it is not of itself better or worse then the current HR20 guide.

Definitely a personal preference type of thing.

[harsh]

I'm debating on whether or not I should change from cable (Cox Cleveland) to D*. I'd love to have SciFi HD before BSG Razor airs.... :)I'd suggest waiting until BSG Razor is much closer. Improvements are going to be made in both camps and you're not missing anything yet.

[tonyd79]

I'd suggest waiting until BSG Razor is much closer. Improvements are going to be made in both camps and you're not missing anything yet.


How surprising! Harsh trying to talk someone out of buying DirecTV.

[Sirshagg]

Actually, the thing I dislike the most about the HR20 compared to the TiVo is the DirecTV grid guide. I much prefer the TiVo-style list guide. Of course, if you use the grid guide on your TiVo (some people prefer it), you won't really notice that difference at all.

Big plus one.

[Sirshagg]

Thank you al for the helpful input, and for the warm welcome!

I did some more searching and found the "TiVo to HR20 survival guide" that was mentioned. Very helpful!

I see in the survival guide that online/remote scheduling is also available -- great! I also see in the survival guide that they have a single-cable multi switch so I don't need to have another RG6 run for the dua tuners. Is that correct?

I've never used dual tuner buffer in the Series3, so I'm pretty sure I won't miss that.

I will, however, miss wish lists. I have a few favorite actors/actresses that I have wish lists set up for. It looks like that's a TiVo patented feature so I'm guessing I won't have that.

Now I just have to continue to press D* to try and get a better price. I've been following the HR20/HR21 ordering guide, but as a new subscriber haven't gotten anything better than their current online offer.

I believe remote scheduling is in beta right now. I have not used it but it did not look to be as good as Tivo's (note: i have not tried it so i might be full of it on this).

The single wire multiswitch ios also still in beta and not hep available to the general public.

There is also no MRV on the HR20, but you just got that tone the series3.

Suggestions on the Tivo are nice.

You can only have 50 series links on the HR20 (keep in mind you may use some of these in replacing the suggestions feature on Tivo).

[Stuart Sweet]

How surprising! Harsh trying to talk someone out of buying DirecTV.

True that there will be software improvements in both, but do you expect either TiVo or DIRECTV to come up with new hardware before November?

[Peapod]

I'd suggest waiting until BSG Razor is much closer. Improvements are going to be made in both camps and you're not missing anything yet.

It's less than 3 weeks until the premiere of BSG Razor. It usually takes some time to get an install appointment, and I think I have heard that service appointments are backed up due to the HD advertising push.

Just how long should he wait?

[Peapod]

True that there will be software improvements in both, but do you expect either TiVo or DIRECTV to come up with new hardware before November?

I think that would be impossible, as it is already November.

[heisman]

I'd suggest waiting until BSG Razor is much closer. Improvements are going to be made in both camps and you're not missing anything yet.

How surprising! Harsh trying to talk someone out of buying DirecTV.

Because it was good advice?

[Drew2k]

Because it was good advice?I don't agree it was good advice.

As of today, the only provider guaranteed to have Sci-Fi in HD when Razor premieres is DIRECTV. Switching from cable to another provider will indeed require early planning, not waiting. If the OP wants Razor in HD, the OP can either gamble that his cable company will start providing Sci-Fi HD within three weeks, or the OP can call DIRECTV and schedule an appointment, which may take from one to three weeks. Plan ahead and be happy.

[heisman]

I don't agree it was good advice.



No one said it was, so who are you disagreeing with?

[Davenlr]

Make sure HD locals are available to you if your order your DVR from D*. HR21 won't record HD locals off air. Not a problem if you are keeping cable, or buying an HR20 yourself from a dealer.

[harsh]

How surprising! Harsh trying to talk someone out of buying DirecTV.Cox isn't sitting still. They have plans to introduce a number of HD offerings before year-end. It is conceivable that they could do something before Thanksgiving.

To do this, Cox is moving strong towards switched digital. In view of that, perhaps an S3 TiVo isn't an option after all.

[sNEIRBO]

There are a number of DirecTV Plus versus Tivo discussion threads. A little searching should find you a lot of reading.

The HR20/21 is a stable and reliable product. The major differences between the two are:

1. Dual Live Buffers. HR20/21 has dual tuners, but only one live buffer. You can't toggle between two live programs.
2. Graphical User Interface (GUI) - completely different between the two.
3. Menu structure - completely different between the two.
4. The HR20/21 is the only DVR capable of receiving and recording DirecTV's new HD channels.

Items 2 and 3 are issues you can get used to.
Item 4 is critical if that is the programming you want.

Carl

That is an EXCELLENT comparison of the two products.

I would add -

5) Speed - the DirecTV DVRs are considerably faster than the TiVos.

There is very little lag waiting for the D* machines to process your requests. My DirecTiVo seems to take a very long time to think about what it needs / wants to do.

[Earl Bonovich]

There are a number of DirecTV Plus versus Tivo discussion threads. A little searching should find you a lot of reading.

The HR20/21 is a stable and reliable product. The major differences between the two are:

1. Dual Live Buffers. HR20/21 has dual tuners, but only one live buffer. You can't toggle between two live programs.
2. Graphical User Interface (GUI) - completely different between the two.
3. Menu structure - completely different between the two.
4. The HR20/21 is the only DVR capable of receiving and recording DirecTV's new HD channels.

Items 2 and 3 are issues you can get used to.
Item 4 is critical if that is the programming you want.

Carl

You can get used to #1 also...

[heisman]

You can get used to #1 also...

How long does that take?......still waiting here. ;)

[Earl Bonovich]

How long does that take......still waiting here. ;)

:D
Depends on the person.... I haven't had DLB for over 2 years now (R15)...
And if it wasn't for the posts here, wouldn't even realize it wasn't there.

[KurtV]

...
1. Dual Live Buffers. HR20/21 has dual tuners, but only one live buffer. You can't toggle between two live programs.
2. Graphical User Interface (GUI) - completely different between the two.
3. Menu structure - completely different between the two.
4. The HR20/21 is the only DVR capable of receiving and recording DirecTV's new HD channels.

Items 2 and 3 are issues you can get used to.
Item 4 is critical if that is the programming you want.

Carl

You can get used to #1 also...

, and actually come to prefer it.

[islander66]

I think you will be impressed with the HR20/21.

I would check and see if you need off air, and get a HR20 100.

If you can have the dish installed in a discrete area I can't think of any reason not to go with all the HD channels D* offers.

I switch to D* for the bundled savings with ATT, Bell South, and am impressed with the HR20 and the awesome HD.

[swans]

I'd suggest waiting until BSG Razor is much closer. Improvements are going to be made in both camps and you're not missing anything yet.

you are missing something already. The two Friday night shows (Flash Gordon and Stargate Atlantis) both look really good in HD. They are also starting to run a few movies in HD.

Personally, it is one of the few channels which is a plus for me.

[Peapod]

, and actually come to prefer it.

Now I'm curious. Why is it that you prefer not having the option to switch between two live buffers? If they were able to make it on the HR-20 so that a button-press not currently used while watching live tv switched you to the other buffer, why would this be detrimental in your opinion?

[Earl Bonovich]

Now I'm curious. Why is it that you prefer not having the option to switch between two live buffers? If they were able to make it on the HR-20 so that a button-press not currently used while watching live tv switched you to the other buffer, why would this be detrimental in your opinion?

The only marginal reason why I would say I "prefer it" (which I personally don't, I don't care either way).

Is that I don't get the pop-up dialog when I am watching live TV, that tells me that it is going to start to record something on the background tuner.

Other then that... I can't see any other reason why it woudl be "preferable"

[Stuart Sweet]

Personally, I find the workaround for DLB (setting both to record) satisfying enough, and I really like the 90 minute buffer.

[lman]

Now I'm curious. Why is it that you prefer not having the option to switch between two live buffers? If they were able to make it on the HR-20 so that a button-press not currently used while watching live tv switched you to the other buffer, why would this be detrimental in your opinion?

I don't understand that logic either. That's like saying I would prefer not having caller ID or video on demand. Just because it's there you don't have to use it. I would use DLB much more than those features. And yes I do still miss DLB after almost a year.

[KurtV]

Now I'm curious. Why is it that you prefer not having the option to switch between two live buffers? If they were able to make it on the HR-20 so that a button-press not currently used while watching live tv switched you to the other buffer, why would this be detrimental in your opinion?

Because I think the 90 minute buffer is, probably, in part, a trade-off for DLB. In other words, if they made the HR20 DLB capable, the LBs would likely be reduced to 45 (or maybe even 30) minutes. So, when looking at the totality of the situation, I prefer a 90 minute single buffer with the "DLB workaround" over 30 or 45 minute DLBs.

If everything else were equal, however, sure, I'd prefer having DLBs over not (though I think I would use them less than I did before the HR20 and its DLB workaround).

[Sirshagg]

All this other stuff aside it seems a bit crazy (yes, I know is BSG) to make a two year committment to a provider just to get a single show in HD. But that's just my $.02

[Earl Bonovich]

All this other stuff aside it seems a bit crazy (yes, I know is BSG) to make a two year committment to a provider just to get a single show in HD. But that's just my $.02

But all that stuff you put asside.... makes a big difference to some people that are making a decision on which carrier to choose..

Including if their show is available at all, or is available in HD... ect

[dbhsatx]

All this other stuff aside it seems a bit crazy (yes, I know is BSG) to make a two year committment to a provider just to get a single show in HD. But that's just my $.02

You will be getting more for that two year commitment than just one show... over 100 HDs by the end of the year. BSG is just the proverbial straw!

[Earl Bonovich]

You will be getting more for that two year commitment than just one show... over 100 HDs by the end of the year. BSG is just the proverbial straw!

At the rate SCI-FI keeps moving BSG... you might be done with your commitment before they actually air the last season... :(

[Sirshagg]

But all that stuff you put asside.... makes a big difference to some people that are making a decision on which carrier to choose..

Including if their show is available at all, or is available in HD... ect

I agree, but it appears from the OP's original post that getting BSG: Razor in HD is the Key. That was really what I was commenting on.

There are absolutley alot of factors to consider and it seems, at least based on the numerous threads here, than many people would prefer the Tivo to the HR20. So this is a big reason not to switch. Of course all the new HD channels are a big reason to make the switch.

I made the switch based on the entirety of the new HD content and what I would find valuable from it. If it was just one show I probably would have stuck with Tivo, moved to cable, and dealt with it.

[islander66]

I wanted to add that the extra $5 HD package is a liability.

Most of us would like to have the DLB, but not so much that we should provide misinformation about the HR20.

And the fact so many Tivo people continue to use the HR20 with no DLB, says they feel the same way. They prefer the HD channels, but given the choice would like DLB.

The question is how much would people be willing to pay for this feature? Would a new subscriber be willing to pay $499 for a HR22 with DLB?

A few more tweaks to the DVR and I'm fine with it. I think D* would be better off without the DLB whiners providing misinformation, and they should go to E* if it means that much to them.

(sorry i don't have time to debate this with anyone. just my views on it.)

[gregjones]

I agree with Earl. I'm a recovering Tivo user happy with his HR20-700. I used DLB a lot when I had a Tivo. With the other DVRs I have had, I barely noticed its absence. I did work through problems with Cable DVRs and can say I would never resort to one of those again. I got burned a number of times by DLB and it running out of buffer or needing the tuner for something else.

All in all, I would never trade the 90 minute buffer for the incremental value of DLB.

[techrep]

At the rate SCI-FI keeps moving BSG... you might be done with your commitment before they actually air the last season... :(

That's ok if it means adding another season. ;)

[mattopia]

All this other stuff aside it seems a bit crazy (yes, I know is BSG) to make a two year committment to a provider just to get a single show in HD. But that's just my $.02

True. There's plenty of other programming (SG Atlantis, History Channel, Discovery, Science Channel, FX, etc) that I'll watch. BSG is just the icing that just about makes it worthwhile. In other words, if they had 100 channels of HD but no SciFi, it probably wouldn't be worth it.

But yes, the 2 year contract combined with startup expenses is primarily why I've not pulled the trigger yet.

Make sure HD locals are available to you if your order your DVR from D*. HR21 won't record HD locals off air. Not a problem if you are keeping cable, or buying an HR20 yourself from a dealer.

Yep, my market gets HD locals. I'll probably keep my TiVo (since there's 2 years left in the sub) to record OTA though, since I do record some PBS shows and would miss those in HD. Luckily I live just a few miles from all of the transmitters, so a cheap amplified UHF antenna pulls everything in. :)

Cox isn't sitting still. They have plans to introduce a number of HD offerings before year-end. It is conceivable that they could do something before Thanksgiving.

I e-mailed Cox using their "contact us" form since they're never open when I call. Explained why I might be leaving and asked what their HD plans are. They have an opportunity to keep me, but I'm not holding my breath.


At this point it's all a matter of playing CSR roulette and seeing if I can get a deal. Up front costs plus 2-year commitment are keeping me on the border.

[boylan]

Mattopia --

At the risk of opening an unrelated can of worms, I find the biggest difference between the two DVRS is that I cannot "hack" my new HR20 the way I can my HR10-250 and other DTiVos. I can currently insert and extract video from my PC to all of the TiVos on my network, and the Series 3 and TiVoHD are "hackable" with a PROM mod (requires soldering a new chip on the motherboard).

With the announcement that Verizon will have 150 HD channels in a year or two (and the Series 3 TiVo works with them) makes me think I will be switching to FIOS when my contract ends. I love being able to archive shows and to insert videos from my PC onto the DVR when I forget to record a show and have to download it. On top of that, I can run different scripts on my TiVo, like a web interface.

I realize that over 99% of people here will never spend the time to hack their DVR, even if it was possible, but it is a part of the decision process for me. Right now, the added HD channels on D* make the loss of that worth it - but in a year or two, if the HD field levels out, it may tip the other way.

I am not sure if the Media Share option allows for video insertion from your PC onto the HR20 yet - but that could happen shortly if it hasn't. Also, I thought there were rumors that you may be able to pull DRM'd video off the D* DVRs in the distant future - but DirecTV2Go seems dead.

That's the trade-off in my mind. TiVo seems much more developer friendly with Galleon ( at galleon dot tv - I can't post URLs yet) and hacking (which they don't support) - but the HR20 gets a ton of HD right now. Plus, I don't think the Series 3 or TiVoHD will work with Video On Demand as the cable companies keep dragging their feet on Cable Card 2.0. Again, I'm not real sure about all the details there - just something to look into.

Finally - did you ask this question at the Tivo Community as well? That way you can get both sides of the story. Just Google "Tivo Community."

[mattopia]

At the risk of opening an unrelated can of worms, I find the biggest difference between the two DVRS is that I cannot "hack" my new HR20 the way I can my HR10-250 and other DTiVos. I can currently insert and extract video from my PC to all of the TiVos on my network, and the Series 3 and TiVoHD are "hackable" with a PROM mod (requires soldering a new chip on the motherboard).

This is a very good point. My old Series1 TiVo had a whole slew of hacks on it. I haven't touched my S3 yet in fear of breaking it. I remember when I first modded my S1 and got the green screen - about a week after I bought it. Luckily it fixed itself, but it was scary.

I realize that over 99% of people here will never spend the time to hack their DVR, even if it was possible, but it is a part of the decision process for me. Right now, the added HD channels on D* make the loss of that worth it - but in a year or two, if the HD field levels out, it may tip the other way.

Exactly my thought. I say in 2 years all the providers will offer pretty much the same stuff. I'm sure D* will leverage their lead while they have it -- I suspect E* will catch up in 6-12 months and cable in 12-24 -- right about when my 2 year contract would end. :)

Plus, I don't think the Series 3 or TiVoHD will work with Video On Demand as the cable companies keep dragging their feet on Cable Card 2.0. Again, I'm not real sure about all the details there - just something to look into.

Yep, I lost VoD when I started using TiVo. Honestly I don't miss it. I'm sure they've added some content, but the video quality was generally average at best, and there was never much I cared to watch other than what I had already recorded on the DVR.

Finally - did you ask this question at the Tivo Community as well? That way you can get both sides of the story. Just Google "Tivo Community."

Good suggestion - I haven't done so yet!

[harsh]

With the announcement that Verizon will have 150 HD channels in a year or two (and the Series 3 TiVo works with them) makes me think I will be switching to FIOS when my contract ends.Up to less than a year before they went live, FIOS TV announced that they would be switched digital. Announcements seem to be little more than weather balloons these days. I'm not convinced by TiVo's SDV announcment either (nor D*'s "OTA solution" for the 21 series for that matter).Also, I thought there were rumors that you may be able to pull DRM'd video off the D* DVRs in the distant future - but DirecTV2Go seems dead.A couple of announced products at D* appear to be dead, but I think this is one of them that will likely reanimate.

[bidger]

With the announcement that Verizon will have 150 HD channels in a year or two...

"A year or two"? So, maybe by the time FIOS is available in my area, probably closer to the "two" than the "A", they'll have as many HD channels as DIRECTV. And that's if DIRECTV doesn't deploy more in that time frame.

I'm happy where I am.

[JBernardK]

I was all set to "upgrade" my HR10 to an HR20 until I read this thread:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=103762

That and OTA has me now leaning toward FIOS/TiVo.

[bidger]

So how did the thread you link to deter you?

[boylan]

Up to less than a year before they went live, FIOS TV announced that they would be switched digital. Announcements seem to be little more than weather balloons these days. I'm not convinced by TiVo's SDV announcment either (nor D*'s "OTA solution" for the 21 series for that matter).A couple of announced products at D* appear to be dead, but I think this is one of them that will likely reanimate.
Yes, the future of TiVo seems to be weigh completely on CableCard 2.0 and their ability to deal with switched video - and I don't think the cable companies will help them out. TiVo's future really seems to depend on Congress or the FCC standardizing those issues and opening them up.

Also - is your thought on DirecTV2Go based on any information or just a suspicion? I would love to be able to copy shows and movies to my laptop for business trips (which I can already do with my HDTiVo - just not the new MPEG 4 channels).

[stiffi]

In case you're still deciding, here's some more features that the HR20 does better.

1. Mini-Guide. You can view the guide one channel at a time under your current show. The Tivo, masks the entire screen.

2. You can use the Guide while watching a recorded show. If you try this with Tivo, you'll jump back to live TV.

Why I love #2:
Frequently, I'll record a live sporting event. When I get close to the end of the program, I like to record the next one, in case the game runs over. With the Tivo, the guide brings you back to live TV, and you accidentially see the score, and ruin the surprise for yourself. This is especially painful when you've watched 4 quarters of an NFL game, managed to avoid the highlights on ESPN, or the internet, then ruin the result for yourself, just as you had gotten to Overtime in the recording!

[JBernardK]

What I do with live sporting events with the TiVo is to pause when it gets near the end, go back to the previous screen and change the recording options to add more time, then go back and continue watching the game.

I usually record the games and come in after 30-60 minutes and start watching the recording. I just press the 'list" button before I turn the TV on, then turn on the Tv and select the game to watch. With the HR20 you can't apparently do that since it shows you a live picture when the list is up. At least that's what I have been told (my daughter complains about it all the time.)

[harsh]

Also - is your thought on DirecTV2Go based on any information or just a suspicion?I believe that handheld devices are one way of the future. DIRECTV cannot afford to miss that boat.I would love to be able to copy shows and movies to my laptop for business trips (which I can already do with my HDTiVo - just not the new MPEG 4 channels).Don't confuse TiVo2Go with DIRECTV2Go. The DIRECTV product, like E*'s PocketDish, is strictly for copying to a compatible player. It doesn't involve transfer to a computer or anything that looks like MRV.

[boylan]

Don't confuse TiVo2Go with DIRECTV2Go. The DIRECTV product, like E*'s PocketDish, is strictly for copying to a compatible player. It doesn't involve transfer to a computer or anything that looks like MRV.
Ugh. Alright, then back to the drawing board. I know the reasons why D* won't support extraction to the PC, but since TiVo will - that's why I'll always consider leaving DirecTV if they don't have TiVo. If for whatever reason they (post-sale or whatever) change their mind and bring back an integrated TiVo receiver that gets the new channels, I will be first in line and will sign a 5 year commitment if thats what it takes. I like DirecTV, I just think I like TiVo more.

[harsh]

Read carefully in the TiVo forums about the limitations of TiVoToGo. They seem to be many and quite inconsistent.