Charlie says the rate hike is coming

[FTA Michael]

Today's Rocky Mountain News quotes Charlie as saying "We will have a higher-than-normal rate increase than in the past."

Full story: http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/business/article/0,1299,DRMN_4_1646036,00.html

I expect some bad news on the next Chat.

[dmodemd]

Thats ok - at least they are competing. The battle will get good as HDTV rolls out. Sat won't be able to carry HD locals and they will feel the pressure big time.

[jeffwtux]

The above article didn't say that

[jeffwtux]

Oh woops, it's the first post that summed up the article, not the HDTV post.

[jeffwtux]

Well, they better not raise AT150, it's already overpriced. Plus, DirecTV better follow suit or I'm closing up shop.

[DoyleS]

So, how does this work? If I pay a year in advance for AT150, I get the advance payment discount and then I would assume that my rate is fixed for the year. Is that right?

..Doyle

[Chris Freeland]

According to a reliable poster over at dbsforams, rates on all AT packages and Dish Latino Max are going up $2, Multi-Sport and Dish Latino $1 on 2/1/03, Dish Latino Dos staying the same. He also reported new bundles AT50 w/locals $29.99, America's Everthing Pak w/locals $79.99, AT100HBOMAX Pak $49.99 and AT150HBOMAX Pak $59.99. Going by what was posted it apears all other packages will be the same. For those with AT100 with HBO and Cinamax this will actually amount to a $3 decrease and those with AT150 with HBO and Cinamax will see a $2 decrease.

After 2/1 E* core packages should be like bellow:
AT50-$24.99
AT50 w/locals-$29.99
AT100-$33.99
AT150-$42.99
AT100HBOMAX Pak-$49.99
AT150HBOMAX Pak-$59.99
AE Pak-$74.99
AE Pak w/locals-$79.99
Dish Latino-$21.99
Dish Latino Dos-$31.99
Dish Latino Max-$42.99
Multi-Sport-$5.99
Locals-$5.99
Other premiums and combinations the same.

[raj2001]

Originally posted by jeffwtux
Well, they better not raise AT150, it's already overpriced. Plus, DirecTV better follow suit or I'm closing up shop.

DirecTV had better follow suit with what? A rate increase? You've got to be kidding. D* should seize this opportunity to get some of E*'s subs. Competition is good.

[jeffwtux]

So DirecTV total choice wil have more channels for less money? Can you say churn?

[jeffwtux]

I really don't see how they can do this unless DirecTV follows suit.

[raj2001]

Originally posted by jeffwtux
I really don't see how they can do this unless DirecTV follows suit.

I can. Charlie doesn't own DirecTV.

[raj2001]

Originally posted by jeffwtux
So DirecTV total choice wil have more channels for less money? Can you say churn?

And this will be a loss to DirecTV how? You don't see satellite companies raising rates when cable companies do. Like it or not they are independent companies and each are in control of their own rates. If Charlie decides to raise his rates and Dave decides not to, then subscribers will churn. Of course the way to stop the churn is for Charlie not to raise the rates. It's called free enterprise.

[platinum]

Indeed, but competition is good

[jeffwtux]

All I can say is that this better not have anything to do with the new NBA TV contract. If $0.01 of any price increase is going to pay for the NBA TV contract, then I'm going to be awfully pissed off.

[platinum]

Charlie said without the merger he'd raise E*s rates, but he's got a few extra billion since the merger didn't go through. What's he thinking?

[jeffwtux]

He also got a few hundred million from Vivendi, but pretty much paid all that to GMH

[Geronimo]

If you pay annually you avoid the increase----this time.

[normang]

Direct is already losing money, they don't care if they lose more for now, and even if they don't raise rates, I don't think there will be enough churn to make a difference, its too much of a hassle for most people to change DBS providers over a couple dollars. If $24 or so dollars is a breaking point for some, well darn, they may have to drop some channels to save some $$

I think we can Thank TNT, ESPN for this rate increase As I've read it elsewhere.. and even at that, cable isn't getting any cheaper either are they.. I beleive they are raising rates again too..

[jeffwtux]

So this is the NBA TV contract, right? This is a total outrage. The last NBA TV contract LOST MONEY BIG TIME. AOL and Disney think they can just pass on the losses to cable and satellite subscribers and the problem magically disappears. The NBA isn't worth that much. Why did Dish cave in to this? This is really making me mad. I was complaining about this from the instant the contract was signed. Why beat around the bush? Instead of raising the price of AT100, just have us write checks directly to the NBA. The free market has been circumvented. This is what makes me madder than anything.

[shilton]

Any "news" at to what HBO itself will cost if you don't have HBO and Cinemax together? I have kept HBO over the years, but hate the fact that it is already higher priced than all the other premiums...but I know that is not Charlie's fault. Time Warner is just GREEDY!!!!

I never like increases, but my local cable company just went up like 7% so I am still ahead!!!

[JBKing]

Directv premiums all cost the same, whether it's HBO or Showtime, whatever. I don't understand why Charlie charges more for HBO.

[shilton]

Originally posted by JBKing
Directv premiums all cost the same, whether it's HBO or Showtime, whatever. I don't understand why Charlie charges more for HBO.
Its my understanding that Echostar charges more because THEY are charged more. Historically, HBO charges Charlie more than the other premiums do...Guess maybe HBO likes DirecTv better.

[Randy_B]

Hmm, rate increase + reinstated DP fee = 2 new DirecTivos in my house.

7 yr customer outta there!

[Nick]

To paraphrase...

You can piss off some of the people all of the time, and you can piss off all of the people some of the time, but you couldn't possibly piss off all of the people all of the time - could you?

:confused:

[shilton]

Originally posted by Randy_B
Hmm, rate increase + reinstated DP fee = 2 new DirecTivos in my house.

7 yr customer outta there!

hmmm...am I reading this right...will there be a charge for the dish-PVR to record stuff???

[raj2001]

Originally posted by shilton

Its my understanding that Echostar charges more because THEY are charged more. Historically, HBO charges Charlie more than the other premiums do...Guess maybe HBO likes DirecTv better.

Hardly likely. HBO is owned by AOL Time Warner.

[raj2001]

Originally posted by shilton


hmmm...am I reading this right...will there be a charge for the dish-PVR to record stuff???

Nope. The fee is for the dishplayer.

[Geronimo]

That depends on what you own shilton.

The free for 36 month PTV offer on the Dishplayer is expiring in May. According to some reports DISH plans to charge those customers who had that promotion just as they have been charging other Dishplayer customers all along. Many DP owners who had become accustomed to free PTV think this is unfair or unreasonable perhaps because they are not satisfied with the product or perhaps becasue many of them feel it was a free for life offer.

This does not apply to the 501, 508, 721 etc. Only to Dishplayers.

[Chris Freeland]

Originally posted by shilton


hmmm...am I reading this right...will there be a charge for the dish-PVR to record stuff???

No just for the Dish Player only, their has always ben a $9.99 monthly fee for them, those that are complaining are those who either purchased a 3-year subscription for $99 or purchased a Dish Player during a free service for 3-years promotion and now the 3-years are up and are now upset because they will now be required to pay the $9.99 monthly fee, once again. Many are also angry about buggy Dish Players and seam to feel E* owes them free service for life, just because the PVR 501/508 and 721 are marketed that way.

[platinum]

Originally posted by Randy_B
Hmm, rate increase + reinstated DP fee = 2 new DirecTivos in my house.

7 yr customer outta there!


You will love Directivo's, their solid:D

[Karl Foster]

If Chris' projections are correct then Total Choice Plus w/locals - $39.99

AT150 w/locals - $48.98

That is a pretty big differential.

I hope Directv doesn't make us eat our words....

[Brad_from_Jersey]

A 2 dollar rate increase and we still don't have the Yes Network... WTF is going on here... 1st of all I’m going to get rid of HBO.... then I’m going to wait patiently until the start of baseball season..... If Yes Network in not on the dam Dish Network by then... Adios DISH Network! It looks like I will be switching to DTV very soon!

[Jacob S]

If they are going to increase rates like this then they better sure darn get those extra channels we been requesting. I mean heck, look at all these channels we want that cable has? Do they have to raise rates two different times in order for us to get those channels? Maybe we are going to get some new channels and that be part of the reason of the rate increase. Maybe they figure that rates will be going up so they might as well make it $2 now to make up for the extra channels to be added.

I predicted that they would raise the basic package to $25 in a prediction post.

[dishrich]

I've seen MANY TW cable systems that offer TWICE as many HBO & FOUR times as many MAX channels for LESS than DBS does! I realize the reason why, but STILL...

FWIW, even Insight cable here offers ALL feeds of HBO AND MAX (ALL 7 HBO E & ALL 8 MAX E feeds) for only $10 each.

[jeffwtux]

The problem isn't the HBO price. It's the $2 increase of AT100 and AT150. CNBC World is already on Total Choice regular for $31.99. Not to mention Bloomberg, The Health Network, OLN, Trio, and others. Charlie wants to charge $42.99 for that A150, he's dreaming. He better add move a bunch of AT150 channels to AT100 plus the ones they're completely missing like The Health Network and Trio. Want to know the worst thing? This is supposed to be Dish's strong month after the NFL season is has ended, DirecTV can't sell Sunday Ticket. Wait till August when DirecTV will be able to offer more channels for less money + Sunday Ticket. Charlie should just tell the shareholders that they're going to have to eat this merger cost.

[jeffwtux]

The only package they can get away with rasing is AT50.

[raj2001]

I said it before and I'll say it again. If you're dissatisfied, speak with your wallet. YOu have a choice of DBS providers or cable.

[jeffwtux]

I'm speaking as a retailer who fears he has just lost his business not as a customer. I have about $400 of ClubDish credit left, so I'll be getting free programming for awhile

[Chris Freeland]

I agree that E* especially needs to upgrade AT100, if they are going to charge the same for AT100 as D* charges for TC+ they need to make the packages equivalent. AT150 already has some channels like the Encores, TMC, TMC Extra, FSW, Golf and Outdoor Channel that are premiums on D*, so a case can be made that AT150 is worth a $7-9 premium over TC+, however a few more channels for AT150 would help to soften the blow of this $2 increase.

[jeffwtux]

Fine, but just adding CNBC World to AT150 ain't gonna cut it.

[Mike123abc]

What Dish could do to get away with price increases:

Make AT50 into AT60 and requre Dish500 for some of the extra channels

Make AT100 into AT125 and require Dish500

Make AT150 into AT200

They could add west coast feeds of popular channels. This would allow them to increase the channel count without really having to pay more to the content providers.

This would also help Dish by forcing people to upgrade to Dish500, which in turn would allow dish far more flexibility with channels and picture quality. 119 is practically overfilled compared with 110 which is running at about 70-80% capacity.

[FTA Michael]

I agree with Mike123abc 100%. Instead of price increases, I think they should overhaul the tiers somehow.

For example, the value of the difference between AT100 and AT150 is mainly in the Encore/TMC movie channels, IMHO. Without those, the extra channels might be worth a couple of bucks, IMHO again. Sounds like what D* does -- keep the premiums separate and charge just a little to step up the regular tiers.

I think they ought to split the movie channels off of AT150 while grandfathering them for a while (six months? a year?) for current subscribers to soften the blow for them. Then throw in a bunch of channels from the AT200 page (http://servicedesk.dbstalk.com/AT200.htm) and restructure the bunch into the New AT100 (base), New AT125 (former AT100) and New AT150 (minus the movies, plus a bunch of crud).

Just think, if Charlie could pile all the dirt-cheap channels onto AT50, he could still break even while offering prices equal to analog cable. And once he's got them, he's got a clear path to up-sell them on all the other Dish offerings. And if they need Dish500 to get them, well, all the folks switching from cable will get new equipment anyway.

Glad we could work this out. :) Let's see what Charlie says a week from Monday.

[PSB]

WOW! I better get some more installation supplies in, every second job I do right now is a swap over to DirecTV if the above comes true DirecTV installers are going to be VERY busy. People will churn, for a dollar saving! You better believe it!!!And they get a great deal when they are a first time customer. Looks like a Santa has come twice this year!

[Chris Freeland]

I think even with the price increase AT50 is a good value compared to analog cable, AT50w/locals already comes close to analog cable and is about $10 month cheaper then the average full analog cable package and $8 cheaper then TC but with less channels. I agree AT100 should become AT120 and become more like TC+ and E* should not even try to duplicate TC. I like AT150 with its Encores, TMC's, FSW etc., I agree however that the addition of CNBCW is not worth the $2 increase, AT150 should become AT160, I don't think we will see a AT200. One additional bundled package at a discount would be good, a AT160Starz Pak for $51.99 perhaps.

[Steve]

I have been a Dish subscirber for 5 years or so, but was curious as to what price I could
get with DirectTV. I currently have AT150, locals, sports and superstation along with a 501.
Which after about 5 tries has worked (knock on wood) without any problems for about 18 months.
I have been happy with Dish, but if I can get a lower price and the MLB extra innings package with
Direct TV, I would htink about switching.

I went to the Direct TV site to see what pricing I could get and when I input my zip, 46077, it
said that I was serviced by Pegasus. Can anyone shed any light on them or how/if they are
different from DirectTV.

Thanks!

[Mike123abc]

Pegasus just means you will pay $3/month more for the exact same thing people not served by pegasus.

As far as AT200, Dish right now says 169 channels are on AT150. If they add HDNet 4 channels, plus ESPN-HD, that would bring it up to 174 channels, add 26 west coast feeds and you would have 200, but really only added HDNet.

[Chris Freeland]

Originally posted by Steve
I have been a Dish subscirber for 5 years or so, but was curious as to what price I could
get with DirectTV. I currently have AT150, locals, sports and superstation along with a 501.
Which after about 5 tries has worked (knock on wood) without any problems for about 18 months.
I have been happy with Dish, but if I can get a lower price and the MLB extra innings package with
Direct TV, I would htink about switching.

I went to the Direct TV site to see what pricing I could get and when I input my zip, 46077, it
said that I was serviced by Pegasus. Can anyone shed any light on them or how/if they are
different from DirectTV.

Thanks!

Lets add it up:
TC+ w/locals $39.99
Pegases surcharge $3
D* DVR by TIVO $4.99
To receive Encores, TNC's, FSW, Oudoor channel, Golf channel requires the purchase of Starz Super Pak, Sports Pak and Showtime Unlimited $31.
Total $78.98, you would gain Showtime channels, Flix, Sundance, and lose Super stations.
If you are willing to give up Supers, Encores, TMC's, FSW, Oudoor, Golf and local regional sports your total would be $47.98. If you add just the Sports Pak and give up just the Encore's and TMC's your bill would be $59.98

If rates do go up on 2/1 your E* bill will be:
AT150 $42.99
locals and Supers $8.99
Multi-Regional Sports $5.99
Total $57.97

[Steve]

Chris: Thanks for the info. I don't need the TMC and Encore channels but need the local RSN's.

Did I read it right that the sports package that contains the Fox sports channels is $12 vs. $5.99 with Dish??
That seems a bit overpriced.

Why is it that Pegasus has a surcharge or "royalty fee" as it list it on their webpage? I am only about 15 miles
from downtown Indianapolis, so it isn't even like I am in the middle of no where. I would have thought
that directv would have covered my area.

[Curtis0620]

You don't need to pay extra to get your local RSN's. It's included in any Total Choice package.

[Jacob S]

The $9 price difference between top 100 and top 150 could very well be worth it due to the encore channel, the encore thematic channels such as westerns, love, mystery, westerns, etc., and tmc, along with the discovery channels, the hunting channels, etc. but adding some special interest channels would make this package more attractive such as the mtv and vh-1 suite channels, and some of these other channels we have been requesting. They should beef this package up a bit more. It is going to be approaching the $50 price mark in the future.

Also if top 50 got too high do you think that they would introduce a cheaper package of a more basic package to help keep some customers? Some people like the movie channels and just certain basic channels like USA, TBS, The Weather Channel, without all the extras.

[HTguy]

Originally posted by Curtis0620
You don't need to pay extra to get your local RSN's. It's included in any Total Choice package.

er...no. RSNs are not included in AT50. You need at least AT100CD.

[Adam Richey]

Total Choice is DirecTV, and the America's Top 50, 100, and 150 are Dish Network.

[jeffwtux]

Ok, I massively disagree with people that say it's the Encore channels or the TMC that makes AT150 a good deal. You are looking at that through rose colored glasses people. I'm a retailer, and I can tell you that I haven't had a single person choose AT150 because of the movie channels. If people want movies they'll usually take Starz(best band for the buck in terms of new movies) or HBO(for Sopranos, sex and the city, arliss...). If they take AT150, its for one of the commercial channels like Style, OLN, DIY, or Golf. This is why TC+ is such a better deal.

[FTA Michael]

Me, I'm not saying that anything makes AT150 a good deal. I'm starting from the premise that the AT150-minus-AT100 channels are worth $9/month, then trying to figure out what channels within this set could be worth it.

I suppose that some folks like Golf or Style that much, but I don't think they're worth anything near $9. My favorites are Fox Sports World, Boomerang, and VH1 Classic, but I'd hate to pay $9 for just them. No, my estimate is that the bulk of the value in this set is in all those commercial-free movie channels.

Now you can say that AT150 isn't worth the $9/month, and there are obviously millions of subscribers who agree with you. In fact, I was suggesting that the price difference between tiers needs to be lower, and that the logical way to lower its cost to E* would be to move the movie channels back into the movie channel packages.

I'm staying with E* through the Center Ice season, but if they don't get Extra Innings or PBS Kids, I might make the jump to TC+. We'll just see.

[jeffwtux]

Well I complely agree with that. Get rid of the movie channels. Nobody gets AT150 for them anyways.

[Nick]

I like them.

[toomuchtv]

AT150 isn't worth the extra $9 as it is. Take away the movie channels,however, & you end up with very little to sell. If you don't subscribe to any Premiums, they make the package very attractive. If they would add them to the Premium paks w/ little or no increase in price, I'd probably drop AT150 immediately. For ANY package to be marketable, it has to include something for everyone. Remove any portion of it & the whole thing will collapse. The addition of just a couple of the other MTV & VH1 channels along with Oxygen, Trio, Goodlife, etc. would really make it the best choice anywhere & finally worth its price.

[Jacob S]

I am also saying that it is worth the $9 price difference, I am not saying it is worth the total amount charged. People choose this package for a combination of having some more movie channels and more basic channels. They pay $9 more which is less than a movie package in which they get more basic than paying $12-$14 more for a movie package, so its a good combo deal.

[shilton]

Originally posted by jeffwtux
Well I complely agree with that. Get rid of the movie channels. Nobody gets AT150 for them anyways.

Here's a thought...how bout offer the subs a choice??? AT150 as-is with the Encore Channels for $42.99 and AT-140 without all the movie channels for something somewhat less. That way thos eof us who want out Boomerang, etc can get it without the added "fluff" of trashy movie channels that we really don't watch anyway. I for one wish Charlie just moved Boomerang to AT100 or sold it al-a-cart so I could scale back to AT100, save a few bucks and still give my son his favorite channel!

[MarkA]

Hmmm... may be worth considering a move to Pegasus. This makes E* just as big of a rip off as Pegasus - and Pegasus has a better channel selection. Gosh, I don't know why people in a non-NRTC controlled area sub to Echostar? Less channels, worse receivers, pay more? Maybe some of you out there could explain what reason you are a DISH sub in a non NRTC area?

Let's see...

Pegasus Total Choice Plus - $40.49 (remember, there's a $1.50 fee in addition to the already inflated rates!)
DISH AT150 - $42.99

Switching to Pegasus would mean losing (of the channels important to me):

FOX Sports World

and gaining:

TRIO
MusicChoice (as opposed to DISH's inferior Muzak)
A receiver with some reliability (as opposed to a DP)

I think the time may have come... IF I can find some kinda free receiver deal (remember, I've got the dish and cabling installed:) Just a simple reaim. Heck, I could even sell my SW21 and unused LNBF!)

[MarkA]

Hey, tell me this isn't true: MusicChoice doesn't have a children's music channel? I thought it did. Heck, I thought I heard it before! Oh well, it's got two Christian channels, which is more important...

[jerryez]

Well, I can say for me that I am going to drop Showtime, if they raise my rates. I am not paying anymore.

[jeffwtux]

Originally posted by Zac
Hmmm... may be worth considering a move to Pegasus. This makes E* just as big of a rip off as Pegasus - and Pegasus has a better channel selection. Gosh, I don't know why people in a non-NRTC controlled area sub to Echostar? Less channels, worse receivers, pay more? Maybe some of you out there could explain what reason you are a DISH sub in a non NRTC area?


Well the rates haven't gone up yet or been officially announced, only rumor and speculation. If this is for real, and there aren't major package additions, people will ditch E* the when their contracts are up.

[dlsnyder]

Originally posted by Zac
Hmmm... may be worth considering a move to Pegasus. This makes E* just as big of a rip off as Pegasus - and Pegasus has a better channel selection. Gosh, I don't know why people in a non-NRTC controlled area sub to Echostar? Less channels, worse receivers, pay more? Maybe some of you out there could explain what reason you are a DISH sub in a non NRTC area?



It wasn't always this way (well, maybe the part about the receivers ;) ). I have been with E* since July 2000 and at that time for me the best deal was E*. I got a "virtually" free system (paid shipping only from net retailer) and subbed to AT40 at $19.99/mo. There was also the SA* factor - only an extra dish required. I never have gotten past the WAF on this one!

If I were coming in as a new sub today I would go with D*. Since we already have an investment in E* equipment (minimal though it may be) we will probably stay put and hope for the best. If the price increases get too out of hand it wouldn't take much for me to take a "free" system offer for new subs from D*. My sister recently got one and it looks very tempting - blows my 3900 out of the water! I might even splurge and get a DTivo :D

[Jacob S]

I do agree that the DirecTv receivers are better than the Dish receivers and cheaper too, I dont get why Dish cannot make their receivers this good and this cheap like DirecTv does. The Direct receivers are even smaller.

A CSR told me that they were going up $2 in February. At least Dish offers AT 50 in which DirecTv does not offer this cheap of a package. Being $24.99 next month compared to $19.99 when the package started out makes the inflated prices really show up now more than just one $2 or one $1 increase. DirecTv having the cheapest package at $31.99 instead of $21.99 like they used to makes it higher than some cable's basic packages and you get locals too but there is more in the total choice package in some cases than what cable would have on their basic package.

In other words, there should always be a basic package available in the $20-$25 range, if not, then rates for a basic package would be approaching cable rates or going past them, and there is no package to attract customers that are on a budget, to get people on the service. People can upgrade the package later like most do, it is a good starter package.

[Karl Foster]

Originally posted by Zac
Hey, tell me this isn't true: MusicChoice doesn't have a children's music channel? I thought it did. Heck, I thought I heard it before! Oh well, it's got two Christian channels, which is more important...

They used to have a MusicChoice channel called "Kids Only" on channel 807. It was removed for whatever reason, though. My daughter who was 10 at the time didn't really like it (apparently, most people didn't as well). They do have a Gospel station - channel 842 and Contemporary Christian - channel 843. We listen to 843 quite often.

[jeffwtux]

Did the CSR confirm that all AT packages (AT50,AT100, and AT150) were going up the $2 or just AT50? I realize that on this has pretty much been assumed here. However, there hasn't been any official word. I personally think that without major additions to AT100 and AT150, this is simple suicide, the slow painful way. This will result in dwindling subscriber revenue and steadily increasing loses forcing an eventual sale of the company at a far lower price than what they'd get right now on a firesale.

[Chris Freeland]

Originally posted by jeffwtux
Did the CSR confirm that all AT packages (AT50,AT100, and AT150) were going up the $2 or just AT50? I realize that on this has pretty much been assumed here. However, there hasn't been any official word. I personally think that without major additions to AT100 and AT150, this is simple suicide, the slow painful way. This will result in dwindling subscriber revenue and steadily increasing loses forcing an eventual sale of the company at a far lower price than what they'd get right now on a firesale.

All my pricing is going by what John Weathers over at dbs forums posted, he correctly gave us an early heads up on E* price increase last year. If you go over to dbsforams General you will see his $2 increase post. I agree with you that if E* does not do some restructuring of at least AT100, Charlie will lose some of his subs, it will defiantly hurt new sub acquisition. I suspect if E* starts loseing subs that they will re-structure quickly. I do have to add that if these AT100 and AT150 HBO and Cinamax combos at $49.99 and $59.99 which John also reported will be good deals for those who want HBO because it will only cost them $2 or $3 more to add Cinamax, these combos will beat smiler combos at D* and permanent equivalent digital cable combos.

[jeffwtux]

I was referring to Jacob S's post who said the "CSR told him..." The HBO and Cinemax combos may be good, but at least for me, that's not my customer base. They want cheap programming with all the channels of basic cable: AT100. The only reason you take HBO is for the series not for movies.

[Peter Wilson]

John Weathers is now stating that E* will add 2 more Cinemax channels and a west coast feed of Telemundo.

[Brett]

Maybe the Telemundo - West was part of the CNBC World agreement with NBC.

It doest make sense why NBC isnt demanding WNJU be put on 119 with WNBC, WXTV and the other NY locals. Who knows maybe we'll see it move to 119. The same goes with the LA Telemundo on the 148 bird.

Does NBC really want people in Los Angeles missing the local ads from the Telemundo station by watching the satellite west coast Telemundo? Its theft not to see the local ads! Didnt NBC and the stations teach us this?

[jeffwtux]

Telemundo isn't on AT100. They've got to do better than that. If they want to raise AT100 to be $2 more than TC, they have to give more stations than TC. Right now they have less. They are toast.

[shilton]

Originally posted by jeffwtux
Telemundo isn't on AT100. They've got to do better than that. If they want to raise AT100 to be $2 more than TC, they have to give more stations than TC. Right now they have less. They are toast.

Is it just me or does anyone else fully expect that D* will also more than likely be raising rates soon. BOTH companies said that if the merger fell apart, they'd have to raise costs to consumers. Sure, they may not raise them right away since Echostar will be in February, but I am sure it will happen. They just signed that new deal with NFL for Sunday Ticket you better believe the NFL raked them over the coals on that one. Someone will have to pay for it! Mark my words...may not be today but DirecTV rates will rise too! Its just a matter of time.

I hate price increases as much as the next guy buy lets face it EVERYTHING goes up every year. Don't most of us get annual raises in pay??? That's because our cost of living tends to rise every year by like 3-5% or so (so any increase of 3-4% or so will basically mean we are paying the same thing for the same service right???) Its not really that bad!

Is this still a Dish Network forum or have we all turned this into a Pro DirecTV forum? I have not read too many flattering things about Dish lately since these price increases were announced.

[Brett]

"Is this still a Dish Network forum or have we all turned this into a Pro DirecTV forum? I have not read too many flattering things about Dish lately since these price increases were announced."

I dont think so. Both Dish and DirecTV are facing increases in costs. Yes, DirecTV may raise rates sometime this year. I still think DirecTV will be far cheaper than my local cable company. Comcast here is $18.50 for 3 channels of HBO. It'll be many years before DirecTV and Dish reach that absurdly over priced rate, when by then Comcast will be charging over $25/mo. Comcast's big issue this year was the takeover of AT&T and handling its debt. I wonder 12 months from now, if Comcast will again raise rates their traditional fashion. Probably so!

I am waiting for NewsCorp to acquire DirecTV, get the Comcast SportsNet Philly rights (whenever that will happen), hurt cable penetration some bit, then I can switch back to DirecTV. I have a DirecTiVo sitting in the closet.

"I hate price increases as much as the next guy buy lets face it EVERYTHING goes up every year. Don't most of us get annual raises in pay??? That's because our cost of living tends to rise every year by like 3-5% or so (so any increase of 3-4% or so will basically mean we are paying the same thing for the same service right???) Its not really that bad!"

As for cable rates increases, I think I read the percentage of rate increases exceeds the rate of increase for the overall Consumer Price Index (CPI). It is an issue.

The cable systems own many of the cable channels in many cases that are charging the DBS companies. This applies to Time Warner Cable and TNT. Time Warner also owns some of the costly movies that air on TNT. Sports rights have gone up. Cable companies are allowed to own sports teams and move games from broadcast to cable, and then basic cable requiring all customers spend the $2 per month or whatever.

The DBS companies have also spent money on reducing piracy, and spotbeam and local channel launches to keep penetration high as possible.

[Chris Freeland]

Originally posted by Peter Wilson
John Weathers is now stating that E* will add 2 more Cinemax channels and a west coast feed of Telemundo.

John also mentioned that the HBO/MAX Pak special is going to be available for Dish Latino Dos and Dish Latino Max subs as well. These two additional Cinamax channels help that package but E* should add all the missing Max channels, this would make these AT100/150/DL2/DLM/HBO/MAX Paks killer packages.

[Karl Foster]

Originally posted by shilton



Is this still a Dish Network forum or have we all turned this into a Pro DirecTV forum? I have not read too many flattering things about Dish lately since these price increases were announced.

I thought this was a DBS forum, not a Dish Network forum. :confused:

[Steve Mehs]

This makes E* just as big of a rip off as Pegasus - and Pegasus has a better channel selection. Gosh, I don't know why people in a non-NRTC controlled area sub to Echostar? Less channels, worse receivers, pay more? Maybe some of you out there could explain what reason you are a DISH sub in a non NRTC area?

Well mainly because at the time (12/98) E* was a little cheaper then D*. I enjoy my 508, like the superstations and enjoy channel surfing trough nearly 200 channels. Yes Muzak is not as good as MC. MC is completely unedited on the rock channels and even has a dedicated metal channel. But I guess the Power Rock channel is all I'm ever going to get. I do occasionally watch a movie on Encore or TMCW/TMCXW. They have some good action flicks on from the 80's. After the price increase our bill will be $56.97. Total Choice Plus w/locals is a great value, for an extra $12 I could also get HBO plus the additional box fee would be $56.98, just a penny more, for a first rate premium package instead of the Encores, but a loss of the supers (unless D* does raise rates). A DTiVo2 plus the lifetime service fee would be ~$450, a cheap D* box for my mom would be ~$100. DirecTV 18X20" triple LNB dish would cost another $75-100.

As for Telemundo, I always hoped E* would do what they did with PAX. Put the national feed in AT100 and above and can all the local feeds.

[Adam Richey]

What are the two Cinemax channels being added? There are so many new Cinemaxes out there, it would be nice to get 4 or 5, but I guess beggars can't be choosers. LOL

[jeffwtux]

Adding Telemundo West is worthless IMHO. DirecTV's Latino packages are a far better deal already. For $31.99 DirecTV gives you almost all of AT100(minus a couple of stations)+about the same number of Spanish stations. For $39.99, Dish gives you AT50 + the Spanish stations. The only benefit from dish is the Playboy channel. That's not worth it. If you take Dish for a Dish Latino station, you're pretty stupid.

[shilton]

Originally posted by karl_f


I thought this was a DBS forum, not a Dish Network forum. :confused:

Yes, we are on a DBS forum but all these postings are in the DISH NETWORK discussion board. That was all I was getting at. Seems since the rate hikes have been announced, this board has been used to nothing more than "slam" Dish compared to DirecTV and that seems wrong. I just wonder how many people putting up negative comments are D* retailers or users? It woudl just be nice to read some positives every once in a while but then again everyone was in favor of the merger till it fell apart and then all we read about was what a bad idea the merger was in the first place.

[jeffwtux]

I'm a DishNetwork retailer, Grand River TV in Farmington Hills MI(suburb of Detroit), and I'm the toughest of anybody on Dish right now. I tell it like it is.

[jeffwtux]

There aren't very many DirecTV retailers on this board.

[Chris Freeland]

Heads up, John posted new info at other site, New AT50 price of $24.99 will come with a "No Price Increase Guarantee through 2005". Two Cinamax additions will be ActionMax and probably 5-StarMax. :)

[jrbdmb]

Originally posted by jeffwtux
Did the CSR confirm that all AT packages (AT50,AT100, and AT150) were going up the $2 or just AT50? I realize that on this has pretty much been assumed here. However, there hasn't been any official word. I personally think that without major additions to AT100 and AT150, this is simple suicide, the slow painful way. This will result in dwindling subscriber revenue and steadily increasing loses forcing an eventual sale of the company at a far lower price than what they'd get right now on a firesale. Getting a little alarmist, aren't we? :)

In my case, I want the AT 150 channels. I want Fox Sports World. I want the out of market sports channels. And I want locals plus L.A. distant networks. To get these, I currently pay Dish $55/mo. I will pay Dish $58/mo. if these increases go through. DirecTV would charge me $58/mo. for the same package, and I would lose the Encore/TMC movie channels. I don't plan on running to DirecTV anytime soon.

As for those (not you, jeffwtux) who say "nobody gets AT150 for the movies", please speak for yourself. I like having some commercial-free movie channels in the package.

[jeffwtux]

Over 90% of my customers have taken AT100 or AT50 + locals. Clearly, that is not typical of chatters on this board. However, we've already established that this board is not the norm. I just love it when people tell me I'm crazy for insinuating that people have opposite opinions. Here people will tell me I'm crazy for saying that PVRed sporting events are completely worthless. People here will say that they'd rather watch a football game 3 hours later on PVR. If I told my one my friends that that I heard of some people who actally prefer to watch major sporting events not live but PVRed, he'd ask what insane asylum they were i in.
The bottom line is, people in here aren't the norm. My agerage customer is far more of typical TV viewer than people here. The only people I have sold a system to that activated AT150 did it for a normal channel like Style, OLN, or Golf. There has not been a signle exception to that.

[jeffwtux]

Oh, and only 2 of 120 of my customers have wanted a PVR and I ask every time.

[dbronstein]

Originally posted by jeffwtux
Oh, and only 2 of 120 of my customers have wanted a PVR and I ask every time.

IMO this is because it's really hard to grasp the concept until you have one. I used to think it was just because Tivo and ReplayTV didn't do a good job of marketing the concept, but it's not something that can be nicely summed up in a 30 second commercial. We got a Replay 2.5 years ago because we were going on vacation and wanted a VCR that could control the satellite box and a salesman talked us into Replay instead. As soon as we started using it, it was "wow! this is the greatest thing ever invented - how did we ever watch TV without it!" But when I would explain what it was to people, they just didn't get it until they came over and actually saw what it could do.

Dennis

[Chris Freeland]

Originally posted by jeffwtux
Over 90% of my customers have taken AT100 or AT50 + locals. Clearly, that is not typical of chatters on this board. However, we've already established that this board is not the norm. I just love it when people tell me I'm crazy for insinuating that people have opposite opinions. Here people will tell me I'm crazy for saying that PVRed sporting events are completely worthless. People here will say that they'd rather watch a football game 3 hours later on PVR. If I told my one my friends that that I heard of some people who actally prefer to watch major sporting events not live but PVRed, he'd ask what insane asylum they were i in.
The bottom line is, people in here aren't the norm. My agerage customer is far more of typical TV viewer than people here. The only people I have sold a system to that activated AT150 did it for a normal channel like Style, OLN, or Golf. There has not been a signle exception to that.

This may be true initially, but how many upgrade to AT150 after they have their system and see all the shows and movies they are missing because they only have AT50 or AT100. I may or may not be the norm, but it is the Encores and TMC's bundled with the extra Discovery channels and other basics that make AT150 worth the extra money for me and I suspect I am not alone. I suspect E* gets many new subs with the lower cost of AT50 and AT100 and then with the epg and their advertising inserts convince many to upgrade to AT150 and or add other premium services.:)

[dbronstein]

Originally posted by Chris Freeland
This may be true initially, but how many upgrade to AT150 after they have their system and see all the shows and movies they are missing because they only have AT50 or AT100. I may or may not be the norm, but it is the Encores and TMC's bundled with the extra Discovery channels and other basics that make AT150 worth the extra money for me and I suspect I am not alone. I suspect E* gets many new subs with the lower cost of AT50 and AT100 and then with the epg and their advertising inserts convince many to upgrade to AT150 and or add other premium services.:)

We actually started off with AT150 and downgraded to AT100. When we signed up, the AT150 looked great, but then after about a year we sat down and went through the channels we actually watched, and we could get all the ones with want on AT100. We also had the threee months free of all the premium channels when we signed up and watched maybe two things, so we didn't keep those either.

Dennis

[Jacob S]

The CSR said that Top 50 was going up $2 but was not sure about Top 100 or Top 150 but I think those are going up as well by $2 each.

Charlie said it himself that if there are any movie channels to be added, it will be Cinemax, because there is only 3 channels in that package. He just recently said this.

A movie combination package with top 100/150 would really help. Those that have the everything pack would need an extra incentive to keep them from falling back to taking the cheaper combo pack deal in which might seem like an even better deal.

If they have a deal for $59.99 like reported on another post for top 150 and HBO/Max then you could buy another two premiums for $21.99 in which there is no incentive in getting the Everything Package because it would cost more than $21.99 extra to add the other two premium packages on, therefore no true savings anymore. No incentive.

[bob321]

Add the Yes Network to AT100 and I will be happy to pay an extra 2 bucks! Get rid of FSNY or put it in the AT150! FSNY is a usless station now that the Nets are on YES!

[Mike123abc]

It is funny seeing people thinking the end of the world just happened, over a rate increase. Cable companies do it every year, sometimes more than once a year.

You need to have perspective on this, Dish cannot price itself out of the market, it is not a monopoly. You have a choice if Dish is too expensive... DirectTV, or as in most of the country... cable. In my case Dish would have to be $40/month more to compete with cable. DirecTV may follow Dish with a price increase.

If Dish raises prices too much and new customers stop coming and old customers start leaving, they will be forced to lower the price or make other changes to get people back.

People are emotional about DBS because they are out on a limb... they feel uncomfortable justifying leaving cable and spending money to get new equipment.... Their equipment might be outdated or something. They could be shown up by someone else getting TV for less. If you think your life would be ruined because Dish raises prices, you need to stick to cable where you will not be stressed out because you know the price will go up regularly and not be such a shocker.

[Jacob S]

No rate increase for two years is what I have heard, so that should help ease the customer's minds. I believe there was a rate guarantee last time, but when it ends, it usually goes up. Have you complained to other companies about their rate increases? The person that needs complained to the most is the boss either for not giving you a raise, or for giving you a raise since you do not want to apply the raise for inflation.

[jrbdmb]

So can you still avoid the rate increase by paying for Dish annually? How is this done? Are the 12 months paid in one lump sum, or can the payments be spread out over several months?

[jeffwtux]

Before Dish was raising rates up to DirecTV's rate. Now AT100 will be more than TC for the first time EVER . THIS IS UNPRECENDENTED IN THE ANNALS OF HUMAN HISTORY(ok maybe a slight exaggeration). Seriously, people they are now more money for less channels than DirecTV. They have raised rates for $1 every year on AT100 for the last 4 years. That's like cable(although cable usually raises them more than just $1, ok always does).

No increase for 2 whole years. That doesn't mean much. So instead of raising rates $1 this year an $1 next year, they are raising them $2 right now. That sounds like choosing between death by fire or water.

[Chris Freeland]

Originally posted by Jacob S
The CSR said that Top 50 was going up $2 but was not sure about Top 100 or Top 150 but I think those are going up as well by $2 each.

Charlie said it himself that if there are any movie channels to be added, it will be Cinemax, because there is only 3 channels in that package. He just recently said this.

A movie combination package with top 100/150 would really help. Those that have the everything pack would need an extra incentive to keep them from falling back to taking the cheaper combo pack deal in which might seem like an even better deal.

If they have a deal for $59.99 like reported on another post for top 150 and HBO/Max then you could buy another two premiums for $21.99 in which there is no incentive in getting the Everything Package because it would cost more than $21.99 extra to add the other two premium packages on, therefore no true savings anymore. No incentive.

Huuu!!!! I do not understand your point in that last paragraph. Why would anyone add two premiums at $20.99 (not $21.99) too the "new AT150HBO/MAX Pak" when they could simply upgrade to the "AE Pak" for only $15 more at a total of $74.99? Think about it ;) .

Another point, if one gets the "New AT100HBO/MAX Pak" at $49.99 and then adds two more premiums at $20.99, it will add up to $70.98, the same as if you simply get AT100 at $33.99 and add all 4 premium packages at $36.99 which also adds up to a total of $70.98.

With these new AT100 and AT150 HBO/MAX Paks, the saveings come only when you get just AT100 or AT150 combined with just HBO and Cinamax or HBO, Cinamax and a 3rd premium, with 4 premiums their are no additional savings then what is curently available. If one wants all 4 premium services, the "AE Pak" is still the best value and still only $4 over the price of AT100 with all 4 premiums.

[FTA Michael]

I started with AE, but I came to the conclusion that spending an extra $x for channels I never had time to watch was a pure waste of money. That's when I cut back to AT150 + HBO. Later I added the sports package, then the superstations, but they aren't part of AE anyway, right?

I'm going to wait and see how all the package prices shake out, then the wife and I will arm-wrestle to see what channels we keep or add. We'll all know a lot more after Monday night.

[Jacob S]

This is why I said they need something to entice people to take the highest package, maybe so many PPV's per month or something. They are trying to keep all the money on the higher end subs yet get more business from the lower end subs. They do not want to end up losing money doing this. I think the combo idea is a good idea, but could be modified later for the AE pack.

Also that is a very good point made about raising rates $2 now instead of $1 for two years, they are actually getting more money this way and making it look good that it is not being raised for a couple of years, very smart on Dish's part.

Some people's bills will actually go down though that have top 100/150 and takes two premiums, those that take the combo pack.

[shilton]

I am not even so steamed about the $2.00 per month...no biggie...everything goes up. What I can't stand is the fact that Time Warner has given Charlie such a bad deal that HBO has to be $2.00 more than all the other premiums and they really don't have that many super movies any more anyway. I like HBO for the concerts, some of the originals, etc but they certainly don't win any awards for movie content anymore. DirecTV has worked out a good enough deal that ALL the premuims are the same price. Getting a HBO/Cinemax deal is a start, but I'd like to see Charlie say "hey...we've got 8 million subs...if you want a fair crack at them, we need to talk about dropping the price of this package to our subs". lets's face it, HBO does not want to lose a few million subs all at once. I'd like to see Charlie play hardball to get their pricing back in line with everyone else. Hbo at $13.99 per month is just a crappy deal when you figure all the other premiums are $2.00 less and Starz is killing them hands down for new hit movies! Had that package before...may go back to it soon too!

[jeffwtux]

I can't stand this stupid rationalization. Prices do go up, fine. However, they shouldn't go up above that of a better product and D* TC is a better product because it has slightly more channels. If D* TC has more channels than E* AT100(and it does), the AT100 SHOULD AT NO TIME BE MORE THAN D* TC. Will it go up over time? Sure, AND IT HAS. 3 $1 increases in the last 3 years. However, it is now the same price as TC but has fewer channels. Even if it went up $0.50 from here above TC without a matched increase from TC, it would be a rippoff.

[shilton]

Originally posted by jeffwtux
I can't stand this stupid rationalization. Prices do go up, fine. However, they shouldn't go up above that of a better product and D* TC is a better product because it has slightly more channels. If D* TC has more channels than E* AT100(and it does), the AT100 SHOULD AT NO TIME BE MORE THAN D* TC. Will it go up over time? Sure, AND IT HAS. 3 $1 increases in the last 3 years. However, it is now the same price as TC but has fewer channels. Even if it went up $0.50 from here above TC without a matched increase from TC, it would be a rippoff.
Whose decision is it that TC is a better package? If you look at Quantity...sure maybe it is, but how many of those "other" channels would one truly watch. Sure, some have requested Oxygen, etc and Charlie has not listened but have you read up on Oxygen? This channel is in dire straits and is struggling for ANY viewers. Same goes for Many of the channels that subs keep asking for. Dish has concentrated on offering the stronger channels that people demand. If they were to add everything everyone wants at the drop of a hat, you better believe we'd see more than a $2.00 increase. The only reason D* is not going up NOW is because it is in their best interests not to. If they keep their prices lower, they add more subs faster (espcially from those who feel its worth $2.00 per month to jump ship). The more subs they add right now, the more attractive they are to a would-be buyer and we all know they are courting Rupert Murdock at least and probably others as well. They need rapid growth. Charlie is running his business like a business person seeking to make $$$ and sadly costs do go up and any successful business has to pass along rising costs to the consumer. Charlie is focused on Locals right now and compared to D* it will be his strong seller in the end, as he is already vastly ahead of them in the # of cities. Expansion costs and rapid expansion costs plenty. We as consumers must eat some of it. If you feel that just having more channels is worth the hassle of switching, go ahead...but how many of them are quality MASS appeal channels? I suspect very few...Maybe YES...Maybe PBS Kids but Oxygen, Trio, etc.....with their viewership, they are lucky to be on the air at all!

[jeffwtux]

Yeah, and running up a large debt is real attractive to a buyer too. Rationalize it all you want, but only a TROLL will say it's beter to pay more for less. They can raise AT50 to $24.99. That's fine, but if they raise the price of AT100 without adding channels as has been predicted. They will lose hoards of customers when DirecTV offers a good promotion.

[jeffwtux]

Again, it may be good bookkeeping to do this, but they will lose hoards of customers over this. Why wouldn't somedody switch if they were given a great intro promotion and a lower long term rate more channels(whether you really value them or not). There is absolutely no other way to look at this. If you are a customer and more channels for less money is a better deal, all things being equal, and those aother things are all debateable(picture quality, receiver quality, PVRs, customer service). Price and channel selection are just not debateable.

[Adam Richey]

I believe you can put Oxygen in the boat of channels desperate to attrack viewers, but Trio doesn't belong AT ALL. They are an incredibly great channel and have improved a lot over the past year. I'd say that they are GAINING in popularity, not losing.

[dbronstein]

But what difference does it make how many channels you get if you don't watch half of them anyway? We get the AT100 but we only watch maybe 10 or 15 of the channels. I don't care how many channels I can get for how much money, I just care how much it costs to get the channels that I actually watch.

Dennis

[raj2001]

Originally posted by jeffwtux
Before Dish was raising rates up to DirecTV's rate. Now AT100 will be more than TC for the first time EVER . THIS IS UNPRECENDENTED IN THE ANNALS OF HUMAN HISTORY(ok maybe a slight exaggeration). Seriously, people they are now more money for less channels than DirecTV.

There's a simple solution for that. Get DirecTV. There's no law that dictates that Dish network must cost less.

[Steve Mehs]

I don't think too many subs will drop Dish because of the $2 increase, those same people probably put up with much worse increases with cable. However, it will have an impact on future subs, provided D* doesn't raise rates. Most non-DBSheads, will probably just accept the increase, and not think twice. AT60/100 has always been a buck cheaper then Total Choice (well for the past 5 years anyway), but now it's time for TC to have a buck advantage.

[Jacob S]

Then DirecTv is a rip off too because they charge $12 for the sports package and Dish charged $5, that is a lot more than a $2 difference, a $7 difference.

[Steve Mehs]

Not really. You have to compare apples to apples. With DirecTV's sports pack, you get all of the OOM RSNs, NBA TV, Golf Channel, Outdoor Channel and Fox Sports World. With Dish, the OOM RSNs and now NBA TV will be $6, Golf Channel A la carte is $5 and Outdoor Channel is $2. That would be $13 with no Fox Sports World or Fox Sports Net West 2 or YES. And plus that new Xtreme Sports Channel from News Corps supposed to be added to the Sports Pak on D* when it's launched.

Granted Golf Channel, Outdoor Channel and FS World are in AT150 and depending on you packaging you might come out a few bucks a head with one service over the other. But you can't compare the 2 sports packs since D* includes more then just regional sports nets. And E* includes most of the other sports pak channels in AT150.

[Karl Foster]

Originally posted by shilton

Charlie is focused on Locals right now and compared to D* it will be his strong seller in the end, as he is already vastly ahead of them in the # of cities.

You are forgetting that adding Chico, Spokane, Tulsa, and Waco isn't even close to D* having Columbus, Milwaukee, Baltimore, Memphis, and Hartford. I did a comparison not too long ago and D* had millions more potential LIL customers than E*. I'll do another soon and post the results. E* is closing the gap, but still has a long way to go to get these large urban markets.

Charlie may be winning the the smaller markets, but for total number of potential viewers, D* is winning that battle.

Also, Trio is a great station. I challenge you to find a better music series that Sessions at West 54th on Trio. Tonight, for example, is a concert with Shaun Colvin and Yo Yo Ma. It may not be your taste, but in our house it is viewed often. I'll take it any day over the hoards of PI channels I had with E*.

[jeffwtux]

Steve, they won't switch to cable(except in cities with good cable deals). They will switch to D*. Saying it's E*'s turn to be more expensive is like saying that it's time for Dodge neons to be more money than Mercedes Benz. Slight exaggeration, but if TC has more channels(no matter how lame you people say they are) it shouldn't be cheaper. Not to mention that D* is the bigger market leader(that is debateable).

[marko]

Originally posted by Zac
Hmmm... may be worth considering a move to Pegasus. This makes E* just as big of a rip off as Pegasus - and Pegasus has a better channel selection. Gosh, I don't know why people in a non-NRTC controlled area sub to Echostar? Less channels, worse receivers, pay more? Maybe some of you out there could explain what reason you are a DISH sub in a non NRTC area?


I know why I subscribe to dish. AT top 50, payed year in advance, $21.09 a month. Dish PRV 501, after the initial investment, free PVR that suits our family needs quite well. Only a couple of channels on AT100 that we miss, noggin for the kids, and maybe FX, but there are plenty of children shows to watch, and we didn't watch fx that much. All in all, a great deal. Might get locals one of these days, but probably not since local reception is pretty good, and we actually don't watch all that many locals.

Originally posted by jrbdmb
[B>So can you still avoid the rate increase by paying for Dish annually? How is this done? Are the 12 months paid in one lump sum, or can the payments be spread out over several months?[/B]

Yep, just pay everything up front a year in advance, and you get 12 months for the price of 11. You can do this with all the AT(50/100/150), and the movie channels(at least I think you used to be able to do that, not sure anymore). The only thing you can't do it with is locals, you can still just put extra money in your account as a credit, and the locals will be subtracted from that as they are charged.

Speaking of ordering a year in advance, does anyone know how far in advance you can order say AT50 yearly. I think my year contract is complete in April, and with all this talk about raising the price $2, figured might just extend my contract another year and save myself $24 if I can lock in the $253 yearly rate. Sort of cheap, but hey, it's $24 saved. thanks.

[Steve Mehs]

But if they don't look into D* or just accept the price increase most won't switch. I guess the point I'm trying to make, is not everyone is going to pick up a DirecTV brochure and compare channel by channel what TC has and AT100 doesn't. *IF* DirecTV doesn't increase there rates potential DBS subs are more likely to go with D* for this reason, then existing subs dropping the service.

[Karl Foster]

Originally posted by karl_f


You are forgetting that adding Chico, Spokane, Tulsa, and Waco isn't even close to D* having Columbus, Milwaukee, Baltimore, Memphis, and Hartford. I did a comparison not too long ago and D* had millions more potential LIL customers than E*. I'll do another soon and post the results. E* is closing the gap, but still has a long way to go to get these large urban markets.



Because I have no life and want to beat a dead horse, here is what I have been able to figure out regarding number of potential LIL customers:

Directv - 51 markets, 71,673,360 potential LIL households
Dish Network - 54 markets, 69,031,380 potential LIL households

The gap has narrowed considerably from what it was a few months ago. The total advantage Directv has is 2,641,980 potential LIL households. Not a big margin at all.

Of course with new satellites and differing priorities, who knows what will happen in the LIL world. :shrug:

[Lyle_JP]

Also, I don't agree that Dish going after smaller rural markets means less potential LIL customers. I think it's more. Face it, in urban areas cable is ubiquitous. Many who live there are apartment dwellers with no practical way to have a dish. And most have access to a Digital Cable service that, while not matching a dish system for price or quality, is considered "good enough" to most. Not to mention OTA reception is usually (barring terrain) excellent in a large city or surrounding suburb.

In rural areas just getting cable run out to your house may be cost prohibative, and even if you do, you won't enjoy paying $65 a month for the only 60 channels you can get on the service (at least twelve of which are your "free" local channels). Also, chances are you'll be too far from the transmission towers for any OTA reception.

A DBS system offering local channels in rural areas is loads more practical than cable. For that reason I think Charlies strategy will work.