DirecTV secrets stolen!

[James_F]

http://rss.com.com/2100-1023-979001.html?type=pt&part=rss&tag=feed&subj=news

Damn, spend $25 million and have your own lawyers take you down. :nono:

[mnassour]

Well, that didn't take long, did it?

[James_F]

More here...

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGAE8B02HAD.html

[Mike123abc]

Talk about a setback for DirectTV... Hackers probably working like mad now thinking how to break P4. That one bit of espionage could cost DirectTV billions.

The poor copy shop will probably be sued into oblivion.

Hackers worldwide are rejoicing a new P4 revenue stream.

NDS probably has a new card waiting for DirectTV to use, laughing all the way to the bank...

I cannot believe they would let this go to a copy shop where anyone could see them. I wonder why the lawyers needed the plans?

[Karl Foster]

It was bound to happen. I'm sure Directv had hoped to at least get all the new cards fielded first before this...

[Jacob S]

DirecTv decided before Christmas to delay shipping out the P4 cards for another reason because the hackers were catching on or they knew something else was up. Anything man made can and will be broken. Name something that is man made that has never been broken.

[AllieVi]

Today's New York Times has an article about this issue.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/03/technology/03PIRA.html

(subscription required)

It claims, in part that the lead anti-piracy lawyer for DirecTV said that the card can't be hacked even if you know everything about it.

Such a statement would seem to negate the charge against the thief...

[Richard King]

Name something that is man made that has never been broken.I don't believe that the VCRS that is used by the c-band industry has been successfully hacked.

the lead anti-piracy lawyer for DirecTV said that the card can't be hacked even if you know everything about it.The Titanic was unsinkable also. :rolleyes:

[Mike123abc]

While everything may eventually be hacked, this could make the difference between it being hacked before the card is turned on (in P4 mode) verses the card being hacked 6-18 months later. If they were able to turn off hackers for a few months it would kill a huge section of the hacker community.

If hacking were to be prevented for a year it would probably prevent major hacking in the future. They would have time to come up with a new card and be ready to release it when P4 was finally hacked. If they could keep releasing new cards ahead of the hackers instead of behind the hackers, the hacking industry would die off. It may not stop the true hackers, but all the ignorant masses that pay them $X/month to have a hacked system would no longer fund the operations... who is going to pay to have a card that no longer works?

[Karl Foster]

They should diable all receivers that haven't "phoned home" in a while. It is a requirement of Directv to have all receivers connected to a land-based phone line. Just enforce the policy.

[HarryD]

Wow! That's the quickest yet!

[Jacob S]

Starchoice and DCII has not been hacked yet either have they?

[Jim Kilroy]

Originally posted by Jacob S
DirecTv decided before Christmas to delay shipping out the P4 cards for another reason because the hackers were catching on or they knew something else was up. Anything man made can and will be broken. Name something that is man made that has never been broken.

The Navajo Code Talkers code in WWII was never broken.

[raj2001]

Originally posted by Jacob S
Name something that is man made that has never been broken.

Digital Cable.

[raj2001]

Originally posted by karl_f
They should diable all receivers that haven't "phoned home" in a while. It is a requirement of Directv to have all receivers connected to a land-based phone line. Just enforce the policy.

They need to CHANGE the policy. They need to have the receivers phone in and obtain authentication from DirecTV BEFORE they are authorized to receive. Then set up a call every month to change encryption keys. Two way authentication is the only way you're going to stop piracy. Digital cable is miles ahead in that respect.

[sticks]

It has to be a supply and demand thing as well, if nobody wants it then it wont be cracked. But if millions are into it then it will be sooner or later.

[Jean Le Puck]

Originally posted by Jacob S
Starchoice and DCII has not been hacked yet either have they?

This is one of the major reasons why Expressvu outsold SC in Canada, since PQ is generally better on SC. The number of Expressvu subs who pay the minimum to get all the programming is estimated to run into the hundred of thousands. Expressvu's main cable competitor in Quebec paid for a study that claimed that 19% of Expressvu units are paying zero or are repointed at Dish and paying zero.

[Turbohawk]

Originally posted by karl_f
They should diable all receivers that haven't "phoned home" in a while. It is a requirement of Directv to have all receivers connected to a land-based phone line. Just enforce the policy.

I know about a hundred RV'ers/Liveaboards that don't have access to a phone line (other than a cell) and dish is the only way they are going to get decent TV. In this day and age of cheap cell plans, I know several people now who are dropping their landline service, since they never use it and it costs more to make the calls they do with their cell.

The only real way to fight piracy is to give would be pirateers very little reason to do it in the first place. In other words, keep (or bring) pricing for programming down to where it is too much trouble to even think of pirating. As prices go up, so does pirating. Of course, there are those that just steal for the sake of stealing, and again, if the trouble they go through to get it free costs more than it would to pay for it legitimately... piracy will eventually stop.

My beef: ALL the non-premium channels have as many (if not more) commercials as the "free" networks, and WE are paying to get these damned channels! Getting their cake and eating it too? For this reason alone I can understand why someone would pirate just on principle...

[James_F]

He don't kid yourself. DirecTV has a problem for 3 reasons. NFL Sunday Ticket, Porn Channels, and lots of PPV.

[Karl Foster]

Originally posted by Turbohawk


In this day and age of cheap cell plans, I know several people now who are dropping their landline service, since they never use it and it costs more to make the calls they do with their cell.



I don't care if people are cancelling their home phone in favor of cell phones. It is in the CONTRACT the subscribers agree to that their receivers will be connected to a land-based phone line. If that is too difficult for them, they should have digital cable. People avoiding provisions of their contract is not a good enough reason not to have receivers call in.

Without receivers phoning in from time to time to verify service and packages (I know RV'ers don't have that option), Directv is asking for people to steal service IMHO.

[scooper]

Karl_f - you wouldn't be so strident about that phone-in requirement if your receivers' modems were fried, but the receiver otherwise was still working perfectly.

[Karl Foster]

Originally posted by scooper
Karl_f - you wouldn't be so strident about that phone-in requirement if your receivers' modems were fried, but the receiver otherwise was still working perfectly.

What is your recommendation for controlling hacking? It is out of control and this just seems to be the easiest way for Directv to control it. As we have seen, changing access cards is an extrememly cumbersome, expensive process that hasn't even finished yet, and has already been compromised. Again I ask, what is you recommendation?

[PeterB]

Originally posted by Rking401
I don't believe that the VCRS that is used by the c-band industry has been successfully hacked.

The Titanic was unsinkable also. :rolleyes:

There wasnt a demand. DSS suplanted the need.

Originally posted by Jacob S
Starchoice and DCII has not been hacked yet either have they?

Yeah they have, the info isnt widely available and the people who know how to do it are very underground.

Digital cable has been done, but not a "nationwide" hack or a very user friend one, it involves reporgramming the STB every couple of days. and its varies on provider.

[Turbohawk]

Originally posted by karl_f


What is your recommendation for controlling hacking? It is out of control and this just seems to be the easiest way for Directv to control it. As we have seen, changing access cards is an extrememly cumbersome, expensive process that hasn't even finished yet, and has already been compromised. Again I ask, what is you recommendation?

Karl, the only surefire way to control hacking is to make the product that is being hacked cheap enough to where the effort/cost to hack is non-productive. When the various networks charge the rates they do when they are also charging for commerical time forcing all of us to pay to watch them, they deserve to be hacked IMO.

The only kinds of channels that have the right to charge what they want are the commercial-free ones (HBO, etc.) I'm tired of paying for TLC and such AND then forced to watch commercials. I can barely stomach commercials on "free" over the air network TV, but at least here, I can understand it.

[Karl Foster]

Nobody deserves to have their service stolen IMHO. So I am to assume you condone hacking of systems?

A channel has the "right" to charge whatever they want. That is part of free enterprise. You aren't entitled to steal from them because you don't agree with their pricing scheme.

Using the same morality, if you feel a Lexus costs too much, you can steal it?

According to the bible I read, it says "Thou shalt not steal" - not "Thou shalt not steal except when you feel you are being cheated."

I don't like commercials either, that is why I bought a PVR...

[HarryD]

But enforcing the phone line hookup isn't the answer. Not everyone can connect a phone line - plain and simple. Rather than putting the onus on the customer, I think it's DirecTV's job to control hacking.
If they really enforced the phone line, they would lose a lot of good customers.

[Jacob S]

I thought that digital cable was not possible to do because the receivers communicate back to the cable service provider?

I think a lot of it is done for a hobby, because it can be done, if it were not illegal then it would not as fun for some of them to do. They like the game and challenge, its like a cat and mouse game to them.

Is digital tv that is over the air going to have pay channels as well available in that way? I wonder if digital tv will bring way to more channels available when it becomes the norm.

[Scott Greczkowski]

Most Digital Cable setups feature 2 way communications, meaning that the box can send data as well as receive it. On many Digital Cable system you can order PPV with your remote (and without needing to hook your Digital Cable receiver up to a phone line)

[PSB]

There is no way to enforce the phone line rule now, without 50% of customers leaving, the best way to stop pirate cards and to sell more systems is to keep the current price scale, but drop half the channels, each customer could choose the number and what channels they want. Lets face it we could drop at least half of the unwanted channels at any time with out a thought!

[Turbohawk]

Originally posted by HarryD
But enforcing the phone line hookup isn't the answer. Not everyone can connect a phone line - plain and simple. Rather than putting the onus on the customer, I think it's DirecTV's job to control hacking.
If they really enforced the phone line, they would lose a lot of good customers.

Roger that.

That was my whole point...that enforcing phone hookups isn't the way to go. What is? Not my job. But I do have some ideas. When the Dish boys pay me, then I'll be interested in helping them stop pirating. Until then, I say keep the prices low enough that no one wants to hack. You're not going to stop the "hobbyists" nor the anarchists from trying to hack, if for no other reason, it's a challenge. Do I condone it? Nope. But I have no sympathy for any industry that charges so much and wants to give so little. Just thank God they aren't selling air. Karl, I bet you would be all for hacking as you gasp your last breath because your phone line isn't plugged in! :lol:

BTW, Karl, do you work for the Dish peoples?

[Turbohawk]

Originally posted by karl_f


I don't care if people are cancelling their home phone in favor of cell phones. It is in the CONTRACT the subscribers agree to that their receivers will be connected to a land-based phone line. If that is too difficult for them, they should have digital cable. People avoiding provisions of their contract is not a good enough reason not to have receivers call in.

BTW, I have yet to see any contract for any Dish provider I've subscribed to. Are you talking about secret, implied contracts? Like the ones Microsoft and such love to use when you install YOUR copy of the product?

If you don't sign it with pen and ink, it doesn't have a lot of weight, at least the last time I checked the laws of Texas.

[Karl Foster]

Turbohawk -

I don't work for the "Dish peoples." I'm not stupid or ignorant either. I resent that implication very much. I have subscribed to both services and felt I receive the best value from Directv. Are they perfect - hardly. Both companies have problems. I am simply a paying customer who resents people who steal. I feel the same way about people who steal any product.

If you truly feel that you are being so persecuted and overcharged for your tv service - don't subscribe. Pretty simple. It is a black and white moral issue. Those with morals won't steal, those without morals will steal with a smile on their face. They are scum.

I don't know the answers to hacking problems. Perhaps more aggressive pursuit of hackers by legal means. That is why their people have jobs. I was just throwing the phone line issue out there.

Anyway, welcome to the forum. I have found it to be both entertaining and informative.

Have a nice evening.

[Karl Foster]

Originally posted by Turbohawk


BTW, I have yet to see any contract for any Dish provider I've subscribed to. Are you talking about secret, implied contracts? Like the ones Microsoft and such love to use when you install YOUR copy of the product?

If you don't sign it with pen and ink, it doesn't have a lot of weight, at least the last time I checked the laws of Texas.

Here's the activation agreement right off of Directv's website:

Terms and conditions of activation:

Programming, pricing, terms and conditions subject to change. Taxes not included. Receipt of DIRECTV programming is subject to the terms of the DIRECTV Customer Agreement; a copy is provided here at DIRECTV.com and with your first bill. Hardware and programming sold separately. Equipment specifications and programming options may vary in Alaska and Hawaii. See your retailer for equipment requirements in your area. Reception may vary based on geographic location. DIRECTV services not provided outside the U.S.

We may charge you a monthly fee of up to $4.99 for each additional receiver, rather than a full subscription fee on each additional receiver. This reduced rate is available only if all receivers are located at your residence and are continuously connected to the same land-based telephone line. If not, you will be responsible for the full amount of our programming charges for each receiver.

By activating your receiver, you are committing to a one-year subscription (12 consecutive months) of any TOTAL CHOICE® package or OPCIÓN EXTRA ESPECIAL® package (valued at $31.99 per month or above) or Phoenix TV package. If your account is downgraded below TOTAL CHOICE, OPCÍON EXTRA ESPECIAL® or Phoenix TV programming, disconnected or terminated before you meet your one-year service commitment, you agree that DIRECTV may charge you a pro-rated fee of up to $150 depending upon the timing of such action.



It says in the second paragraph that each receiver is to be continuously connected to a land-based phone line in order to have the receiver charged at the $4.99 rate and no the full rate. By activating equipment, you are agreeing to these terms. Yes, I am in violation with two of my receivers. I could run additional phone lines if forced to.

I'm no legal expert, so I don't know how well this would hold up in court, but the phone-line requirement is there. Once again, I don't work for for any satellite service or content provider. :)

[Jacob S]

Perhaps this new service by R/L DBS Rainbow at 61.5 will have better luck, considering its the latest out, and that they are willing to sell channels individually.

I wonder how many people will switch from Dish and Direct to this new service just because they can pick and choose?

[Mike123abc]

You will note that only about half the channels can be bought outside a package:

http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=6513291851

It will be interesting to see how they work pricing on individual channels verses their packages.