Newbie: DTV's HD 'Lite' improved with MPEG-4?

[gmw1]

I'm a newbie here and a frustrated Comcast customer considering a switch to DirecTV.

In the past we've avoided DTV. Here's why. A year ago, a side-by-side comparison of DTV and Comcast at a neighbor's house using a Pioneer plasma easily convinced me that Comcast's HD picture was far better (at the time). In this test, DTV's down sampled 1280x1080i MPEG-2 channels were obviously fuzzy compared to the Comcast's 1920x1080i MPEG-2 channels...I'm a professional photographer and so I scrutinzed the images very carefully — and was troubled by DTV's lack of sharpness on the 1080i channels, although DTV's 720p channels looked about the same as Comcast's 720p product.

With the activation of the new DTV satellite and MPEG-4 transmissions of new HD digital channels, I have some simple questions. I've read the recent threads on this topic, but don't see some of these questions definitively answered with facts. I don't want to get into an HD resolution or "HD Lite" debate or hear versions of DTV's non-denial denials about down-sampling. I know what I saw a year ago and now want to know what I'll see today if I make a switch to DTV:

1. Are the new, 1080i MPEG-4 channels still down sampled or not? The old, DTV MPEG-2 1920x1080i HD channels were down-sampled to 1280x1080i, and the combination of these two technologies is why I saw that noticeable loss of sharpness.
2. Are these new MPEG-4 1080i channels 1280x1080i, 1440x1080i or 1920x1080i?
3. Does anyone here discern actual sharpness improvements in DTV's 1080i channels that are broadcast using MPEG-4?
4. Does the use of MPEG-4 mitigate the down sampling and deliver sharpness that's closer to uncompressed quality? (It should...)
5. Does DTV still use MPEG-2 for their 6 or 7 original HD channels?
6. I assume DTV still broadcasts some channels in SD at this point. Note, I said "channels" (not programs)...
7. How crisp and sharp are DTV's SD channels? Comcast's SD channels are just terrible (as they are severely over compressed), and Comcast Sacramento has just 13 regular HD channels. In spite of what their misleading new ads tout about On Demand, they really provide very little HD programming here...

Any thoughts would be appreciated, but please, stay on point and don't get distracted by the "HD Lite" debate...We're fed up with Comcast, and have high hopes for DirecTV.

[Earl Bonovich]

Plenty of threads and topics on the subject.

1) No they are not. MPEG-4 are broadcast in the same resolution they are provided to DirecTV in
2) Don't know... refer to #1.. the source of the programming dictates the format
3) Each person's Eyes, TV's, setups, ect... .... all I know is the channels I get look outstanding
4) Well given that MPEG-4 is a more efficient compression mechanism... sure.. it should.
5) Yes
6) Yes (most of their several 1,000's of channels are in SD: aka don't forget all the Locals)
7) Some are good... some are bad. All depends on the channel.

[veryoldschool]

3. Does anyone here discern actual sharpness improvements in DTV's 1080i channels that are broadcast using MPEG-4?
I see a sharper picture from KOVR than my [old] MPEG-2 CBS from LA.

[lifelong]

I'd suggest doing the side-by-side at the neighbor's house again. I recently switched because of the quantity of HD content and have found that I am not disappointed in the quality so far. But I did not do a side by side. If you enjoy Comcast's HD on-demand, then that's also something to take into consideration. Who knows how long it will be until DirecTV can start to reliably deliver a significant HD on-demand library?

[Earl Bonovich]

Who knows how long it will be until DirecTV can start to reliably deliver a significant HD on-demand library?

Well considering they were able to deliver some HD On-Demand Library during the initial testings.... it isn't going to be that long.

[gmw1]

Unfortunately, the neighbor does not have both DirecTV and Comcast any longer. A year ago, he had both for just a few days after a DirecTV sales rep boldly lied and told him the service provided Fox Bay Area Sports Net in HD. On installation day, he discovered this wasn't true. After stewing about it, he cancelled the new DTV service just three days later. They never did come back to pick up the digital box...

As for Comcast's On Demand, we seldom use it, although we did recently catch up with several episode's of AMC's new Mad Men series in HD, even though the actual AMC channel is not broadcast in HD here. That was a nice, but rare find. On Demand is tedious to navigate and it's difficult to track and find HD content buried in all the submenus. In fact, On Demand still has very little HD content (in spite of Comcast's misleading ads). Also in my opinion, their PPV movie rental rates are too expensive compared to all the movies you can get each month with a 480p DVD-by-mail service from Blockbusetr or Netflix. Finally, most of On Demand's content is SD, and Comcast over compresses their SD to a point at which it sometimes is just unwatchable. As far as I'm concerned, Comcast On Demand is not even a consideration.

[allenzt]

Before making the switch to DirectTV, make sure to read the threads about the problem with out of synch audio and vidio on the HD channels. It makes HD pretty much unwatchable for me, no matter how good the picture is.

[Dusty]

If you satisfied with Comcast HD, why bother to shop around? Only you can judge if you are happy with the pictures you get from D*. Although you can't do a side by side comparison any more, you can still see D*'s broadcast quality in most big box stores.

Many posters here, myself included, have compared HBO HD (HD lite) vs. HBOW HD (new MPEG4 boradcasting). The new channel does have better PQ. I have moved all my recordings to new MPEG4 channels.

Another perspective, if you only can get 13 regular HD channels vs. D* 95 + HD locals, you would actually be comparing Comcast SD to D* HD in more channels than you thought. That should be an easy comparison.

[JeffBowser]

This is a passing and sporadic issue, not one I would make any long term decisions on.

Before making the switch to DirectTV, make sure to read the threads about the problem with out of synch audio and vidio on the HD channels. It makes HD pretty much unwatchable for me, no matter how good the picture is.

[gregjones]

Before making the switch to DirectTV, make sure to read the threads about the problem with out of synch audio and vidio on the HD channels. It makes HD pretty much unwatchable for me, no matter how good the picture is.

I have yet to see an issue with this at all.

[davring]

Before making the switch to DirectTV, make sure to read the threads about the problem with out of synch audio and vidio on the HD channels. It makes HD pretty much unwatchable for me, no matter how good the picture is.

I would suggest you get things fixed, I'm not having those troubles and very few others report it being unwatchable.

[msmith198025]

This is a passing and sporadic issue, not one I would make any long term decisions on.

Nor would i, some havent had this problem

[twistedT]

HD-Lite........ whats that, oh we haven't seen that since D-10 came on line :biggrin:

[Badger]

HD-Lite........ whats that, oh we haven't seen that since D-10 came on line :biggrin:

I've seen HD-Lite since D10 went on line! But it wasn't on my D* system but on my neighbors E* system. LOL :hurah: My neighbors are making the switch to D*.

[Kurgan]

Before making the switch to DirectTV, make sure to read the threads about the problem with out of synch audio and vidio on the HD channels. It makes HD pretty much unwatchable for me, no matter how good the picture is.

So far, I've only seen this issue on one channel -- Discovery HD.

[LarryFlowers]

Before making the switch to DirectTV, make sure to read the threads about the problem with out of synch audio and vidio on the HD channels. It makes HD pretty much unwatchable for me, no matter how good the picture is.

I have observed an occaisional sync issue.. never once have I observed one that made a show unwatchable. As an avid watcher of prime time HD.. probably at least 6 hours a night, and I actually had to think about the last time I saw a sync issue.

[JeffBowser]

In all fairness, the Discovery HD channel has had audio sync issues badly lately. Man vs Wild last night was quite irritating, as has been Mythbusters. They had it right for awhile, I trust it will be right again soon.

[sjso395]

I have observed an occaisional sync issue.. never once have I observed one that made a show unwatchable. As an avid watcher of prime time HD.. probably at least 6 hours a night, and I actually had to think about the last time I saw a sync issue.

I agree, I have enjoyed the HD content thus far and havent really noticed the sync issues at all.

[Lee L]

I know that my locals look pretty crappy. My wife set up everything using the D* provided HD Locals and I had to go back and change them all to record the OTA signal because I got tired of watching blocks move around in the background of shows. The ABC station is the worst, but the all exhibit it somewhat.

[gmw1]

I dropped by Circuit City in Elk Grove, CA, a Sacramento suburb, to check out the DirecTV MPEG-4, HD & SD picture quality as a first step in considering a switch from Comcast, since we only receive 13 HD channels in our area and the SD channels all are over compressed and just look terrible. All those DirecTV HD ads certainly are compelling.

Unfortunately, all I encountered was a miserable shopping experience.

Circuit City's HDTVs filled two walls, and the main wall faced back toward the front entrance (though perpendicular to it). Sadly, most of the HDTVs had glare and reflections on the screens and shiny, bezel surrounds. I strained to quickly analyze the picture on different channels, and finally found some success. I was not impressed.

The HDTVs were connected to what I believe must have been an old MPEG-2 receiver. Although the clerk didn't seem too sure of this, she said it was an older Samsung receiver and that it was not an MPEG 4 model. Could this be correct? For all I know, it wasn't even an HD Receiver. The clerk didn't even know if they subscribed to (or this box received) — all the new HD channels. She also didn't know if the HDTVs were connected via digital HDMI or Component Video, but given the old box, it may have been Component. The clerk just didn't know...

I told her DirecTV now has a new MPEG-4 DVR, and that it was supposed to deliver an improved digital HD and SD picture as well as more HD channels. I told her I really wanted to evaluate the picture quality before committing to the service. She did know of the new hardware and satellite, and took me to the DTV display that contained an LCD HDTV, along with an HR20 DVR and other receivers.

Believe it or not, the HDTV on this display was connected to recorded DVD demo content!

She could not explain how prospective customers were supposed to evaluate the picture quality of the DirecTV service if the old MPEG 2 box was providing the signal to their TV wall while a DVD was being used for their DTV display. She said, "The DirecTV rep comes here every two weeks. I'll have to ask him about that!"

The live, DirecTV content I saw on the back wall looked just so-so (the TV's brightness/contrast and color saturation all were jacked to the max, which didn't help). The sharpness wasn't impressive either, and the DirecTV SD channels looked terrible (different from Comcast terrible, but terrible, just the same).

Also, in just stepping through the channel guide with the remote, I noticed the channel groupings did not seem to have a logical organization to them and I couldn't tell by the guide which channels were HD and which weren't. This all made it more difficult to evaluate what I was seeing. One almost needs to walk into a store with a DirectTV Channel Guide in your hand to be able to figure out what's going on.

I can't see how DirecTV or Circuit City expects to sell this service and DVR with presentations like that... I guess I'll try Best Buy next...

[Jeremy W]

HD-Lite........ whats that, oh we haven't seen that since D-10 came on line :biggrin:
Actually, all of the old HD channels are still broadcast in glorious HD Lite. This includes ESPN, ESPN2, and TNT.

[BattleZone]

Very doubtful you are going to get anywhere at BB. None of the big retailers have any decent TV displays of anything, with a possible exception of the 1 HD-DVD and 1 Blu-Ray player they'll have on display. Their TVs are all fed from a crappy multiplexor that displays horrible artifacts. You just can't get any kind of realistic evaluation there.

You *must* know someone with DirecTV in HD in their home, no?

DTV's channel layouts:

2-69 - Locals
70-89 - HD (old stuff)
100s - Mostly PPV
200-399 - Cable Networks
400s - Spanish
500 - Premium Movie Channels
600-899 - Various sports
900s - Sat radio
2000s - International

[twistedT]

Actually, all of the old HD channels are still broadcast in glorious HD Lite. This includes ESPN, ESPN2, and TNT.

True, but the OP was asking about Mpeg4 not Mpeg2 :)

[Jeremy W]

600-899 - Various sports
900s - Sat radio
600-699 - RSNs
700-799 - Specialty sports packages
800-899 - XM Radio
900s - Nothing

[Upstream]

If you can get to the Bay area, try a Sony Style store. They have the TV's set up to give the best quality picture, as well as the training to answer some basic technical questions.

[arxaw]

... in just stepping through the channel guide with the remote, I noticed the channel groupings did not seem to have a logical organization to them and I couldn't tell by the guide which channels were HD and which weren't. ..Go to another store with competent sales folks.

The new MPEG4 HD receivers/DVRs can filter the guide to show only HD-capable channels. And there's a ton of 'em.

[Redlinetire]

The live, DirecTV content I saw on the back wall looked just so-so (the TV's brightness/contrast and color saturation all were jacked to the max, which didn't help). The sharpness wasn't impressive either, and the DirecTV SD channels looked terrible (different from Comcast terrible, but terrible, just the same).

Also, in just stepping through the channel guide with the remote, I noticed the channel groupings did not seem to have a logical organization to them and I couldn't tell by the guide which channels were HD and which weren't. This all made it more difficult to evaluate what I was seeing. One almost needs to walk into a store with a DirectTV Channel Guide in your hand to be able to figure out what's going on.

Speaking as someone who switched from Comcast to D* a few months ago, I would suggest that you stick with Comcast.

If you are looking for a 'night and day', blow your socks off experience with D* I think you will be disappointed. Based on your posts you seem to be very knowledgeable and particular on your wants. And I don't think you'll find enough difference in the two services to warrant the hassle and cost of switching.

That being said, I switched for reasons of content, not performance. The best performing service means squat to me if they don't carry the channel I want. And D* carries it, Comcast doesn't (and won't).