WHO has the Numbers

[aim2pls]

would be interesting to get someone's take on:

factor in NEW customers coming online from now to 2/09

1) how many standard Directv customers are there?
2) how many of those will want to convert to HD before 2/09?
3) how many current installers are there ?
4) average number of HD conversions per day per installer?

and most important .... can the conversion be done ???????

project the date the conversions will be completed ??????

[spartanstew]

Why 2009?

[dbmaven]

would be interesting to get someone's take on:

factor in NEW customers coming online from now to 2/09

1) how many standard Directv customers are there?
2) how many of those will want to convert to HD before 2/09?
3) how many current installers are there ?
4) average number of HD conversions per day per installer?

and most important .... can the conversion be done ???????

project the date the conversions will be completed ??????


I presume that this is in reference to the FCC mandate for digital transmissions?

What is it that you think DirecTV has to do ?

You realize, that digital, as mandated, does not equal HD?

[sNEIRBO]

I presume that this is in reference to the FCC mandate for digital transmissions?

What is it that you think DirecTV has to do ?

You realize, that digital, as mandated, does not equal HD?

Will that even matter to a majority of people when 02/09 rolls around? Won't the Sat/Cable/IP Companies convert the digital signals into a format usable by anyone who has not upgraded to an HDTV? I would think the only people that need to be concerned about the 02/09 deadline are people who are pulling analog signals through an antenna hooked up to their old tube TVs . . . right? And that can NOT be many people at this point . . .

[kevinturcotte]

Doesn't effect satellite at all. Everything is already in digital. And I'm not sure about the digital requirement for them or cable. Since cable technically isn't OTA, can they continue to have analog channels? If so, I suppose technically Dish and Directv COULD have analog channels if they wanted to.

[TigersFanJJ]

Will the FCC mandate affect D*? Probably not. However, the average Joe doesn't know that. Out of every 10 HD upgrades that I do, 8 or 9 of them are customers that are "getting their upgrade so they don't lose tv when the change over happens."

[CJTE]

Thats not really a bad thing for D* either
;)

[Davenlr]

It will matter to directv in that all their current analog sd receivers for all the sd LiL's will have to be switched over to ATSC receivers. Curious if they will set the receivers to letterbox or just how they will convert the widescreen digital to 4:3 for their SD Lil uplinks.

[davring]

It will matter to directv in that all their current analog sd receivers for all the sd LiL's will have to be switched over to ATSC receivers. Curious if they will set the receivers to letterbox or just how they will convert the widescreen digital to 4:3 for their SD Lil uplinks.

The receivers in your house will never have a clue that the signals from the broacasters are changing, they will still be receiving the same data stream from the sats that they always have. Older analog TV's will never know the difference because the D* receiver decodes the data stream to analog for your set. What D* will do, I'm sure is capture the digital signal and supply tuners able to receive the MPG 4 signal and down convert at the set top box.

[Koz]

But most SD LiL signals that D* broadcasts originate as 4:3 analog signals. When those disappear, D* will only be able to use the digital signals which are typically 16:9. So how will D* handle that? Will they pass the signal on as 16:9 letterbox SD? Will they crop it to 4:3?

I've also seem some interesting posts that say that it may be illegal for D* to downrez an HD signal to SD.

So I would guess that many people will, in fact, notice it when analog broadcasts turn off, even over cable or D*.

[kevinturcotte]

Down converting is going to be the fun part. The NAB doesn't want them doing it. If they get their way, Directv will be in a fun spot.

[Tom Robertson]

DIRECTV (and Dish) have already warned the FCC that stations need to make their digital transition plans public soon or risk being left out as DIRECTV won't have time to transition them all at the last minute.

The only receivers that need to be changed out are those in locations where SD locals are supplied by the new Ka satellites S1/2 or D10/11.

As for the NAB not liking a downconvert, what are they expecting? Stations to independently produce SD and HD content for cable and satellite? :)

Cheers,
Tom

[kevinturcotte]

How's it going to look if Directv starts shutting off millions of customer's local channels? That's not going to go over too well.

[Tom Robertson]

How's it going to look if Directv starts shutting off millions of customer's local channels? That's not going to go over too well.That is why DIRECTV is warning the FCC.

And why broadcasters are preparing lots of promotional materials about the transition as many people aren't aware they will go dark if they don't have cable boxes, satellite, HDTVs, or converters.

Cheers,
Tom

[SDizzle]

How's it going to look if Directv starts shutting off millions of customer's local channels? That's not going to go over too well.

That's not a fight that D* will ever want to get involved in!!!:nono2:

[Davenlr]

Tom, when I said change out receivers, I meant D*'s receivers used to collect the OTA to uplink, not customers receivers.

Assuming they are allowed to downrez, I would love to see the SD locals letterboxed for native 16:9 content. It would really make a lot of people happy. I'm sure I'm not alone in feeling 16:9 is much more enjoyable to watch even at 480i given a widescreen OAR. People are used to DVD's now, so there wouldn't be any difference there.

[Jhon69]

Tom, when I said change out receivers, I meant D*'s receivers used to collect the OTA to uplink, not customers receivers.

Assuming they are allowed to downrez, I would love to see the SD locals letterboxed for native 16:9 content. It would really make a lot of people happy. I'm sure I'm not alone in feeling 16:9 is much more enjoyable to watch even at 480i given a widescreen OAR. People are used to DVD's now, so there wouldn't be any difference there.


If you really want to piss off people just put black bars on the top and bottom of their picture.:rolleyes:

There is alot more SD sets still out there!.;)

[Davenlr]

So you recommend what? Squishing 16:9 to 4:3, or just cutting off the sides? The transmission D* picks up is going to be widescreen. They will have to choose one of the three options.

[kevinturcotte]

It's not going to be good, whatever they do. I personally like the widescreen video, providing it's not stretch-o-rama, but I imagine Joe and Jane 6-pack are going to clog the call centers wondering what's going on and threatening to cancel unless it's "fixed".

[JLucPicard]

Pardon someone who doesn't necessarily understand all the complexities of broadcasting, but can't the broadcasters actually broadcast an SD 4:3 digital signal? Or is the nature of the beast that anything digital will HAVE to be 16:9?

I've been preaching for a long time now that going digital does not mean going HD, since that seemed to be a common misconception. But reading this thread it sounds like people are saying that the digital broadcasts HAVE to be 16:9 and have to be manipulated to arrive at a 4:3 picture.

Unless what I'm reading (from about post #10 forward) is built upon a misinterpretation of Davelnr's post #8.

And I know that HDTVs are starting to sell more and more, but won't most of the people that would be affected (by whatever it is that would cause alarm) those watching SD 4:3 sets anyway? Wouldn't they just be getting the same thing from D* that they're getting now?

Again, pardon my ignorance if I'm really missing some simple point. :)

[Tom Robertson]

Ideally, the stations will be responsible for their SD incarnations sent to cable and satellite. We'll see how it plays out.

Davenlr, I suspected you meant the receivers to be switched are the OTA SD receiving equipment DIRECTV uses, not the customers'.

Cheers,
Tom

[Tom Robertson]

Pardon someone who doesn't necessarily understand all the complexities of broadcasting, but can't the broadcasters actually broadcast an SD 4:3 digital signal? Or is the nature of the beast that anything digital will HAVE to be 16:9?

I've been preaching for a long time now that going digital does not mean going HD, since that seemed to be a common misconception. But reading this thread it sounds like people are saying that the digital broadcasts HAVE to be 16:9 and have to be manipulated to arrive at a 4:3 picture.

Unless what I'm reading (from about post #10 forward) is built upon a misinterpretation of Davelnr's post #8.

And I know that HDTVs are starting to sell more and more, but won't most of the people that would be affected (by whatever it is that would cause alarm) those watching SD 4:3 sets anyway? Wouldn't they just be getting the same thing from D* that they're getting now?

Again, pardon my ignorance if I'm really missing some simple point. :)Yes, the stations can broadcast a 4:3 digital image; some of our local affiliates do just that as one of their subchannels (stealing bits from the HD main channel.)

And reportedly, some small stations are planning to only do the bare minimum come February 18, 2009 a 4:3 digital SD signal.

Cheers,
Tom

[Davenlr]

In our market, PBS transmits both 16:9 and 4:3 depending on source. NBC has ONLY 16:9, with inserted black pillar boxes for 4:3, ABC is the same as NBC, CBS is the same as NbC except they use obnoxious gray bars, Fox uses black pillars. MyNet uses streth-o-vision. All are transmitting a 16:9 signal, regardless of the source material. If D* were to compress it, a 4:3 viewer would see a very distorted picture with pillars for 4:3 material. If they Cropped the sides, the widescreen material would lose lots of the picture but the 4:3 stuff would look normal. If the just passed on what was being received, widescreen would be letterboxed and 4:3 material would be both letterboxed & pillarboxed.

Unless the major networks continue to uplink a 4:3 version of everything, and all the affiliates maintain all their current 4:3 switchers, I don't see where the affiliates or D* will have anything but a widescreen or pillarboxed 4:3 source available to them.

Has anyone heard from the NAB if the major networks plan to continue their 4:3 sat uplinks after Feb 09, or if they will be widescreen only feeds to the affiliates?

[kevinturcotte]

They can even do 480i if they want.

[Jeremy W]

The only receivers that need to be changed out are those in locations where SD locals are supplied by the new Ka satellites S1/2 or D10/11.
What do you mean by this? Why would people in those markets need new receivers?

[aim2pls]

would be interesting to get someone's take on:

factor in NEW customers coming online from now to 2/09

1) how many standard Directv customers are there?
2) how many of those will want to convert to HD before 2/09?
3) how many current installers are there ?
4) average number of HD conversions per day per installer?

and most important .... can the conversion be done ???????

project the date the conversions will be completed ??????

ALL good responses so far

but everyone is avoiding the questions particularily number 2

number 2 eliminates the NON / REQUIRED aspect

the question is HOW MANY will want to convert ... and can it be DONE by 2/09

[HDTVFreak07]

DIRECTV (and Dish) have already warned the FCC that stations need to make their digital transition plans public soon or risk being left out as DIRECTV won't have time to transition them all at the last minute.

The only receivers that need to be changed out are those in locations where SD locals are supplied by the new Ka satellites S1/2 or D10/11.

As for the NAB not liking a downconvert, what are they expecting? Stations to independently produce SD and HD content for cable and satellite? :)

Cheers,
Tom

Hmm, I have a friend that works at our local CBS affiliated station. He told me that D* gave them a visit and offered them to be on D*. That station was all FOR it but since then, they haven't heard a word. I told my friend that I was ASSUMING it has something to do with having D11 launched FIRST before they hear any more. And I told him that I ASSUME it won't be until the early part of 2008 before D* contacts them again.

[rotomike]

My father has a regular 4:3 Tv and gets digital over the air and all he does when the bars are top and bottom is hit zoom and then he sees the regular 4:3 transmission full screen. yes you are missing the sides but you are also missing the sides on a regular analog transmission also. We have switched back and forth from analog to digital and they are exactly the same when in zoom mode so the stations will not have to change a thing because almost every digital tv has a zoom and customers will have a choice to zoom and see full screen or see letterbox style with more visible picture. When the stations dont broadcast in HD you will see bars all around the picture top, bottom and both sides and when you zoom and fills the screen nicely. i dont see any problem with a 4:3 Tv showing digital---- either HD or regular

Mike

[HIPAR]

When 2009 arrives, I don't expect to see any difference in what my good old 18 inch dish SD system provides. The provider will work whatever magic is required to manipulate the feeds into the exact format I'm watching now. I'll watch with my set connected to the Yellow, White and Red RCA jacks on my 'ancient' SD receiver or use the coax jack with good old NTSC on it.

If your subscibe to HD, you have your choice. Connect your old fashioned TV to the down-rezed outputs on the back of your HD receiver or connect your new fangled digital TV to the HD outputs. Can't you do that now? Nothing to change here either.

There seems to be an inordinate amount of confusion here.

--- CHAS

[Newshawk]

What do you mean by this? Why would people in those markets need new receivers?

D10, D11 and the Spaceways are all MPEG 4 Ka band satellites, so people in markets where the locals are/will be provided by those satellites will need a MPEG 4 Ka capable receiver. As of now, the only ones that fit the bill are the H20/21 and the HR20/21.

[carl6]

D10, D11 and the Spaceways are all MPEG 4 Ka band satellites, so people in markets where the locals are/will be provided by those satellites will need a MPEG 4 Ka capable receiver. As of now, the only ones that fit the bill are the H20/21 and the HR20/21.

Unless the customer chooses to upgrade to HD, they will not have to make any change whatsoever. SD locals do not come via MPEG4 Ka band satellites, and absolutely nothing in the Feb 09 digital change requires SD locals to change.

My HD locals come via MPEG4 Ka on 99, my SD locals come via MPEG 2 Ku on 101. I do not expect that (my SD locals) to change in Feb 09.

I do agree that in those markets where DirecTV is currently obtaining the locals via OTA NTSC receivers, those will have to be replaced with OTA ATSC receivers, or with some other method of obtaining that feed. That does not have any effect on the end user DirecTV customer.

Carl

[arxaw]

My father has a regular 4:3 Tv and gets digital over the air and all he does when the bars are top and bottom is hit zoom and then he sees the regular 4:3 transmission full screen. Your father's TV or his D* receiver has a Zoom & Crop or Letterbox format option button. The overwhelming majority of D* subscribers do not have this feature available on their old analog TV or their SD receivers.

So the question is, how will local stations and D* (and cablecos) solve this dilemma? Zoom & crop the 16:9 frame to fill a 4:3 screen, or letterbox it so the entire image will be visible on a 4:3 screen?

No matter what they do, there will be a lot of PO'd people. If D* chooses to letterbox, the "fill my screen" crowd will be screaming "get rid of these F&*%#)! black bars on my tee-vee. If they zoom & crop the 16:9 image to satisfy the "fill my screen" folks, the stations will be PO'd because their logos won't be visible to the vast majority of viewers who still have 4:3 NTSC TVs.

Other options for the stations are:
1. Move the logo into the 4:3 frame (which will PO the 16:9 crowd), so D* can send a zoomed & cropped image to SD customers.
2. Supply a separate 4:3 zoomed & cropped SD sub channel (with visible logos) for cable and satellite headends & uplink facilities. If done OTA, this will steal bandwidth from the HD sub channel.

[newsposter]

two of many articles

http://www.news.com/Digital-TV-changeover-suggested-for-2009/2100-1028_3-5785519.html

http://www.tvpredictions.com/echo090407.htm

[RobertE]

Unless the customer chooses to upgrade to HD, they will not have to make any change whatsoever. SD locals do not come via MPEG4 Ka band satellites, and absolutely nothing in the Feb 09 digital change requires SD locals to change.

My HD locals come via MPEG4 Ka on 99, my SD locals come via MPEG 2 Ku on 101. I do not expect that (my SD locals) to change in Feb 09.

I do agree that in those markets where DirecTV is currently obtaining the locals via OTA NTSC receivers, those will have to be replaced with OTA ATSC receivers, or with some other method of obtaining that feed. That does not have any effect on the end user DirecTV customer.

Carl

From my understanding they will be soon. From what I have been told, all new installs in the markets that currently use the 72.5 sat will get a KA/KU dish plus the 72.5. I'm also lead to believe that all they get now are also H/HR receivers.

[rotomike]

all of our installs from now on have to be a H20,21 or HR20,21 no matter what and a slimline dish. I assume other markets are the same way if they have locals on a ka bird then everyone gets a HD receiver. In our area they can get an HR20 for free if its a new install.

mike

[Brian_83]

In our market, PBS transmits both 16:9 and 4:3 depending on source. NBC has ONLY 16:9, with inserted black pillar boxes for 4:3, ABC is the same as NBC, CBS is the same as NbC except they use obnoxious gray bars, Fox uses black pillars. MyNet uses streth-o-vision. All are transmitting a 16:9 signal, regardless of the source material. If D* were to compress it, a 4:3 viewer would see a very distorted picture with pillars for 4:3 material. If they Cropped the sides, the widescreen material would lose lots of the picture but the 4:3 stuff would look normal. If the just passed on what was being received, widescreen would be letterboxed and 4:3 material would be both letterboxed & pillarboxed.

Unless the major networks continue to uplink a 4:3 version of everything, and all the affiliates maintain all their current 4:3 switchers, I don't see where the affiliates or D* will have anything but a widescreen or pillarboxed 4:3 source available to them.

Has anyone heard from the NAB if the major networks plan to continue their 4:3 sat uplinks after Feb 09, or if they will be widescreen only feeds to the affiliates?


I would think they would just crop the sides off for the regular SD channel. That would basically just cut out the pillars on 4:3 programming and the sides on anything 16:9. That is NO different then what is already being done though. Any HD programming that is currently shown has the sides cut off on 4:3. Take all the NBC, CBS, ABC shows in HD. They already have the sides cut off for people with out HD. It's no big deal, you don't even notice it. I think they still try to center the important parts of the program in the 4:3 frame so nobody is left out. Basically the people with HD get a bonus, the people with 4:3 get what they've always had.

[Jeremy W]

D10, D11 and the Spaceways are all MPEG 4 Ka band satellites, so people in markets where the locals are/will be provided by those satellites will need a MPEG 4 Ka capable receiver. As of now, the only ones that fit the bill are the H20/21 and the HR20/21.
I know, so customers in those markets should already have those receivers if they want the local channels.
SD locals do not come via MPEG4 Ka band satellites
In some markets, they do.

[arxaw]

In some markets, they do [get SD locals on MPEG4 Ka band sats.].This is correct, for the local markets that have only recently been added.

[arxaw]

I would think they would just crop the sides off for the regular SD channel...Who would crop off the sides for the SD channels, the stations, and broadcst it on a sub channel, or the cablecos and sat providers at the headends/uplinks? If the cablecos and sat providers zoom & crop, the logos will be chopped off, which I doubt the networks & stations would stand for.

They will probably move the logos to the 4:3 area, or demand the providers send everything OAR, which would have to be letterboxed for 4:3 NTSC TVs.

Personally, I don't want to see the damned moving, spinning, flashing logos moved even farther into the 16:9 screen area during HD broadcasts, so I hope they do OAR.

[arxaw]

..... In our area they can get an HR20 for free if its a new install. That's great. I think they should do that, for all of these podunk markets that haven't had locals until now.

[carl6]

Your father's TV or his D* receiver has a Zoom & Crop or Letterbox format option button. The overwhelming majority of D* subscribers do not have this feature available on their old analog TV or their SD receivers.

So the question is, how will local stations and D* (and cablecos) solve this dilemma?


What is the dilemma? Where does it say that there will not be 4:3 SD television after Feb 09?

Carl

[carl6]

SD Locals do not come from mpeg4 satellites.




In some markets, they do.

Really? I'll have to check into that.

Carl

[cygnusloop]

What is the dilemma? Where does it say that there will not be 4:3 SD television after Feb 09?

Carl

But broadcast where, Carl? On yet another subchannel.

With the ceasing of the analog broadcasts, the ability to simulcast in HD and SD goes away, unless a local affiliate starts up another bit-sucking subchannel. Certainly some stations will continue to broadcast 4:3, but I think this discussion is really about network affiliates broadcasting primetime programs.

[Jeremy W]

It's not really up to the affiliates. I don't think the networks have any intention of providing an SD feed after the analog cutoff. It's a pain to run dual feeds, and they want to go HD-only ASAP. The affiliates won't be creating another subchannel, because there won't be anything to put on it.

[cygnusloop]

It's not really up to the affiliates. I don't think the networks have any intention of providing an SD feed after the analog cutoff. It's a pain to run dual feeds, and they want to go HD-only ASAP. The affiliates won't be creating another subchannel, because there won't be anything to put on it.

I hope you are right about that. Which brings us back to the question. If your DIRECTV, how do you present 16:9 on a 4:3 TV? If you assume that the affiliates receive from the network, and then broadcast only the 16:9 formatted program, what does DIRECTV do with that? Now, if everyone had an H/HR2x or the like, they can choose for themselves, but that ain't going to be the case for a long time. Surely, legacy receivers and the DIRECTV local SD channels will be around long past 2/09.

[Jeremy W]

If your DIRECTV, how do you present 16:9 on a 4:3 TV?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Format_Descriptor

If the networks would implement that, and all of the providers get decoders that support it as well, the problem is solved. 16:9 is letterboxed, and 4:3 is full screen. That's the way the networks would want it, I'm sure. NBC already broadcasts their stuff letterboxed in SD anyway.

[CJTE]

Really? I'll have to check into that.

Carl

I know, so customers in those markets should already have those receivers if they want the local channels.

In some markets, they do.

...
Im agreeing with Carl on this one. The Ka birds transmit MPEG4 signals only. Jeremy if you know of any markets where they are getting SD programming from the 99/103 PLEASE dont hesitate to fill us in.
As a matter of fact, I know D* has been giving away HD recievers to customers who can get HD locals off the 99/103 but still cant recieve SD locals.

[loganbay]

even on this knowledge baced web site, people are confusing digital with hd. as of feb. 09, broadcasters will be required to broadcast digital signal not hd.
d* to the customers home is and always has been digital. the only problem facing d* is the way they collect signal from local stations. unless a program is shot in wide screen it will still be 4:3 in digital fromat. while upgrades to hd have increased, overall installation has slowed as is normal for this time of year. the stated deadline for hd upgrades is a false deadline expected by those that don't understand the difference between digital and hd.

[Tom Robertson]

...
Im agreeing with Carl on this one. The Ka birds transmit MPEG4 signals only. Jeremy if you know of any markets where they are getting SD programming from the 99/103 PLEASE dont hesitate to fill us in.
As a matter of fact, I know D* has been giving away HD recievers to customers who can get HD locals off the 99/103 but still cant recieve SD locals.

Jeremy W is totally correct, more and more SD locals will be delivered by the MPEG4/Ka constellation. I believe that currently the Alaska locals are (along with some HD?) and a large chunk of SDs on 72.5° will be.

Cheers,
Tom

[newsposter]

not directed at anyone in particular but reading thru this and somewhat knowing what i'm talking about :) i have to say that i think some people are still confused. There will be standard definition tv after 2009.
it's that analog will be turned off.

I'm sure you mean that the standard def channel will not be analog but will be digital.

Also there was one statement made that SD can't be show along side of HD. I don't think that's true at all but of course dont really know how things are going to be implemented. I dont see any reason why a digital SD station cant be shown alongside a digital channel.

(waits for corrections.....) but pretty sure this is all true

[harsh]

I direct those who have issues with JeremyW's MPEG4 SD LIL claim to this post by Kiteflyer:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1277621&postcount=3

[Doug Brott]

Jeremy W is totally correct, more and more SD locals will be delivered by the MPEG4/Ka constellation. I believe that currently the Alaska locals are (along with some HD?) and a large chunk of SDs on 72.5° will be.

Cheers,
Tom

Yup, and this is just happening since much of the work has concentrated on the new national HD channels. DIRECTV will be transitioning away from the 72.5° location .. those channels need to be available somewhere. DIRECTV has chosen to put some SD (not HD) locals on the new MPEG-4 sats as a result. I do not know if this is a capacity issue or part of a longer-term MPEG4 transition or not, but some of the new SD locations as well as some transitioning locations will be MPEG4 based.

As for the Feb 2009 date .. This is much ado about nothing. Sure, the OTA signal is affected by the government mandate. However, the OTA signal may (or may not) be received by DIRECTV at their collection point. If an analog signal is received by DIRECTV OTA, then DIRECTV will have to make arrangements to receive a digital signal instead. However, DIRECTV will do all of the converting and it will show up in MPEG2-SD at your receiver exactly as it does today.

Where it might be a problem (going dark) is if DIRECTV cannot correctly snag and convert the OTA signal from the stations .. It is unlikely, I think that many stations will run into this problem despite DIRECTV's and DISH's concerns .. somehow, I think that they will find a way to make it work. The good news is that you as a customer can continue enjoying the service the same as you do now. Upgrading to HD will continue to be optional and there will be no action necessary as long as you are using a DIRECTV receiver to get your programming.

[arxaw]

... I dont see any reason why a digital SD station cant be shown alongside a digital channel...If you're referring to OTA broadcasts, there is no reason it can't be done, unless the station doesn't have multi-sub channel capability. One of our local ABC affiliates cannot do sub channels. Yet.

The problem with doing sub channels is that it's done by taking bandwidth from the HD channel. This often degrades HD picture quality, particularly on shows with lots of movement - sports and that sort of thing. The picture degradation is more noticeable on larger displays.

[cygnusloop]

even on this knowledge baced web site, people are confusing digital with hd. as of feb. 09, broadcasters will be required to broadcast digital signal not hd.
d* to the customers home is and always has been digital. the only problem facing d* is the way they collect signal from local stations. unless a program is shot in wide screen it will still be 4:3 in digital fromat.

I, for one, am not confusing it at all. All of the major networks in my area broadcast ONLY the 16:9 format on their prime ATSC channel, whether or not the program is 16:9 or 4:3. If the source is 4:3, they add pillarbars. So, even though the source may be 4:3, the broadcast is 16:9. This has nothing to do with HD vs. SD.

The way DIRECTV collects the the signal from the local station is not the only thing that is going to change. They will also lose their "pre-formatted" 4:3 signal, which is important, in that most primetime programming is shot 16:9.

When the NTSC analog channel goes away in Feb '09, The only available signal on the major networks will be the 16:9 frame. This is what will be available to DIRECTV. They must choose how they will format the 16:9 frame for transmission on their local SD channels to those subscribers that have only a legacy MPEG2 receiver.

The "Active Format Descriptor" linked by Jeremy is an interesting concept. If DIRECTV could come up with a way to dynamically adjust the 4:3 frame for different situations, that would help. I think the worst situation will be when the network is broadcasting 4:3 source with pillars. Then, when DIRECTV adds letterbox bars, the DIRECTV sub with a 27" 4:3 TV will be seeing a "windowboxed" 4:3 frame making their 27" TV show a <20" picture. They will not be happy.

[cygnusloop]

However, DIRECTV will do all of the converting and it will show up in MPEG2-SD at your receiver exactly as it does today.


As in my above post, the question is, HOW will DIRECTV do the conversion (not the HD>SD conversion, but the 16:9>4:3 conversion. No matter what they do, it seems they will annoy ~1/2 their SD user base.

I personally think they should just letterbox the 16:9 frame and be done with it. But, I figure this will seriously PI$$ OFF a large portion of their SD subscriber base. What to do, what to do....

[Newshawk]

...
Im agreeing with Carl on this one. The Ka birds transmit MPEG4 signals only. Jeremy if you know of any markets where they are getting SD programming from the 99/103 PLEASE dont hesitate to fill us in.

I'm not Jeremy, but I DO maintain the HD and SD LiL charts in the programming section, so it's my business to know what markets are on and where they are on. As of today, 11/18/07, the following markets get their standard definition local channels via a Ka/Ku satellite (at the 99 degree position) and need a HD receiver to view their standard definition local channels: Anchorage, AK; Fairbanks, AK; Honolulu, HI and Juneau, AK. All four markets get at least one channel in HD, too.

Six markets were announced for launching their standard definition locals from a Ka/Ku satellite on 11/15/07, but apparently there has been a change that has delayed the launch: Beaumont-Port Arthur, TX; Butte-Bozeman, MT; Dothan, AL; Harrisonburg, VA; Odessa-Midland, TX and Palm Springs, CA. I've heard a rumor that Bangor, ME may be added to that list. Unfortunately, I've not been able to find any information that confirms the launch date for any of those markets.

[CJTE]

I direct those who have issues with JeremyW's MPEG4 SD LIL claim to this post by Kiteflyer:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1277621&postcount=3

The fgollowing DMAs get their SD locals from 103b starting 11/15/07: Palm Springs, CA, Dothan, AL, Midland-Odessa, TX, Beaumont-Port Arthur, TX, Harrisonburg, VA, and Butte, MT.

I'm still making phone calls, but so far, Palm Springs currently doesnt have locals, and we're beyond the 15th, now ofcourse, D* is slow, like the beginning of the HD roll out that never happened in September, but... I'm waiting to hear back from Dothan, AL and I'll be hearing from Port Arthur soon.

[carl6]

I'm not Jeremy, but I DO maintain the HD and SD LiL charts in the programming section, so it's my business to know what markets are on and where they are on. As of today, 11/18/07, the following markets get their standard definition local channels via a Ka/Ku satellite (at the 99 degree position) and need a HD receiver to view their standard definition local channels: Anchorage, AK; Fairbanks, AK; Honolulu, HI and Juneau, AK. All four markets get at least one channel in HD, too.

Six markets were announced for launching their standard definition locals from a Ka/Ku satellite on 11/15/07, but apparently there has been a change that has delayed the launch: Beaumont-Port Arthur, TX; Butte-Bozeman, MT; Dothan, AL; Harrisonburg, VA; Odessa-Midland, TX and Palm Springs, CA. I've heard a rumor that Bangor, ME may be added to that list. Unfortunately, I've not been able to find any information that confirms the launch date for any of those markets.

Thank you for the information, and I have also found this elsewhere. I was not sure, which is why I wanted to research. I was not considering non-CONUS (Alaska and Hawaii), however they are most certainly DirecTV markets. Further, it does appear that DirecTV will be adding SD markets, as well as migrating 72.5 markets.

I would also like to extend a thanks to Texasbrit for explaining that DirecTV is also cross assigning 103a and 103b transponders in the signal strength screens (some of the transponders showing on 103a are actually from 103b). This will certainly result in some confusion going forward in discussions.

The great thing about these forums is we all have the opportunity to learn and expand our knowledge.

Carl

[arxaw]

...When the NTSC analog channel goes away in Feb '09, The only available signal on the major networks will be the 16:9 frame. This is what will be available to DIRECTV. They must choose how they will format the 16:9 frame for transmission on their local SD channels...D* or other providers may not be allowed to choose.

If the networks or affiliates decide they don't want the aspect ratio altered (which might omit all-important logos from view), they might insist that their signal be sent OAR, with letterboxing for 4:3 SD receivers. Who knows...

[cygnusloop]

D* or other providers may not be allowed to choose.

If the networks or affiliates decide they don't want the aspect ratio altered (which might omit all-important logos from view), they might insist that their signal be sent OAR, with letterboxing for 4:3 SD receivers. Who knows...

Good point! It's going to be very interesting to see how this all plays out. I suppose to some degree, people are used to the letterboxing for many prime time programs. What will be the big change is when the affiliate is broadcasting 4:3 source material with pillars, and the unsuspecting viewer is presented with windowboxing.

Glad I already have my HDTV! :D

[Davenlr]

Http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CECB

This should help explain how Joe Sixpak will survive, but doesn't answer the question of which format D* and the cable companies will use.

[Jeremy W]

This should help explain how Joe Sixpak will survive
Joe Sixpack doesn't need one of those. The converter boxes are meant for Joe Can't Afford a Sixpack, who doesn't have satellite or cable.