Wireless networking

[JBKing]

I just got a Netgear MR814 wireless router and am trying to set my network up. Now, both pc's can surf the internet just fine, one connected to the router by cat 5, the other by usb wireless adapter. But I can not get the 2 pc's to share files or the printer. I called Netgear support last night, and get this, they can't support that feature but sent me to a website to show me how. Of course the website didn't help, or at least it didn't help me any.

I've set up an Ethernet before and didn't have any bit of trouble. Is wireless that more difficult? The PC with the router is on XP and the other is 98SE. Supposedly, that can cause a problem, I've come to find out.

Looking at the info for the MR814, file and printer sharing is not mentioned anywhere. At the risk of causing Zac to have a heart attack ;) I started looking at the Microsoft Wireless network products, and file and printer sharing is specifically mentioned as a feature. I'm starting to think it would be easier to return the Netgear to Best Buy and get the Microsoft set, damn the easy hackability that I've heard about. But the Netgear can't be THAT difficult to set up, can it? Can anyone help?

[gcutler]

Any machine doing the sharing (not accessing the sharing) needs to be setup to share. If you wanted both PCs to offer sharing then both would need to be configed. Netgear was kind of right to push you asside, in that their product does nothing to help/hinder sharing if on same side of router unless it was defective (effectively the Router is being used as a Hub/Switch between PC on Port #1 and PC on Port #4 or whatever)

On Win 98 you need to install "the File and Print Sharing for Microsoft Networks" drivers and as well for XP Home (my XP has it installed but I have it disabled for running) in the network configuration.

Once that is installed your machines should be recognized for sharing. Make sure that both have Workgroup = the same name (forgot where you see that in 98, but on XP (Right Click My Computer, Computer Name Tab and there is the workgroup name).

If you give them different workgroup names, they will have a longer time exchanging info about the two machines. Same workgroup works better. Machine names must be different, so they don't conflict.

If you power down the machines, they take a while (several minutes) to announce themselves for sharing resources.

If you right click on a printer or folder and Share or Sharing shows up in menu then it is working.

[JBKing]

Thanks gcutler. But I have all of that set right. :confused:

I'm not sure what you mean by Netgear pushing me aside. Is there a better device I should be buying?

[James_F]

Can they see each other in the network? I assume you've already tried to ping them. Can you type the Computer name in and see it? The new Netgear stuff is really easy to use, almost too easy.

[JBKing]

Nope, they can't see each other, I tried to ping the main pc to the other to no avail. I haven't tried the reverse. I hope there is just some little setting I have overlooked. The 98SE box shows a network with only that PC attached. The only network connection I have on the XP machine is the local network connection, and there are no PCs available, in other words, nothing in My network places, and I can't seem to add a network place.

[VanNuysBear]

I had a similar problem, when trying to network two PCs. One with XP, the other with ME. Spent two days trying to get them to 'see' each other.

XP does not install (nor does Microsoft support) the NETBEUI protocol on XP machines. However the files are on the XP CD (I'm at work, so I don't have the information on 'where' on the CD).

Once I install the NETBEUI protocol on the XP machine, I had no more problems. Both PCs share files and printers.

[JBKing]

Thanks! I was just reading a website about that. www.wown.com and it says where on the XP cd you can install from. Matter of fact, there was a customer in Best Buy yesterday telling me to install NetBeui, but I didn't see the option in XP, now I know why. Hope this does it! :)

I wasn't going to go into this, but you notice I said a 'customer' was helping me. The first clerk in Best Buy, said that there would be a problem running XP with 98, but he wasn't sure how to fix it, so go up front to the support 'help'. Well, that guy said you couldn't network on a wireless system at all. :eek2:

Then I went back to the networking aisle and struck up a conversation with someone shopping and he helped me was at least getting close to a solution. A lot more than the so called 'professionals' at Best Buy. :rolleyes:

[gcutler]

Originally posted by JBKing
Thanks gcutler. But I have all of that set right. :confused:

I'm not sure what you mean by Netgear pushing me aside. Is there a better device I should be buying?

I meant by them directing you to a web site instead of giving you support on the issue as their product would have nothing to do with the working or not working of your problem (unless it was defective) but since it works to the internet, it is 99.99% that it probably has nothing to do with the NetGear device.

Are both PCs in the same building or is one PC in one building and the other PC in another building? That would be a difference between them being in the same building and then it could be the router that is the problem??? If both PCs are on the same side of the Router (just using the Ports 1 thru x on the router) if both can get to the internet then the router is probably setup right. If one PC is on the router and the other PC is across town connected to another dsl/cable modem or something then the router config would need to be modified and a whole bunch of things done...

[gcutler]

Originally posted by VanNuysBear
I had a similar problem, when trying to network two PCs. One with XP, the other with ME. Spent two days trying to get them to 'see' each other.

XP does not install (nor does Microsoft support) the NETBEUI protocol on XP machines. However the files are on the XP CD (I'm at work, so I don't have the information on 'where' on the CD).

Once I install the NETBEUI protocol on the XP machine, I had no more problems. Both PCs share files and printers.

Netbeui is basically an OLD redundant protocol and should not need to be run if TCP/IP is being run properly on the machines. I had my Win98/ME running to Win2000 without needing NetBeui, I have never run 98/ME and XP-Home concurrently so it could be an issue with that?

But that being said, NetBeui will get the job done. In a corporate environment, all those machines running netBeui would cause alot of problems (and communication thru routers was also a pain). But for a home 2 PC config, it gets the job done. I'm willing to bet that there is something misconfiged somewhere (unless XP and 98 have an issue???). But without seeing it in person, it could take days to figure out.

Is everyone running XP-HOME? I wonder if the problem exists with XP-Pro (as the networking is a little bit more sophsiticated on XP-Pro.) Maybe that is the issue?

Enjoy Netbeui :) Technically it's "Retro" :D


I'm selling one of my machines and putting ME back on it (instead of Win2000ADV Svr). I will see if it can see my XP-Home machines.

[toddjb]

Wow, I'll have to try this when I get home. I've been having the same problems, with opposite OS'. 98 Desktop connected to wireless router, XP laptop connected via wireless.

Thought I had everything turned on, but they still don't see each other and now I get an annoying Microsoft Network login screen interruping my 98 bootup each time I turn on the computer...which is annoying in itself.

I just get the feeling this would be much easier on a MAC. :)

-todd

[gcutler]

Originally posted by toddjb
Wow, I'll have to try this when I get home. I've been having the same problems, with opposite OS'. 98 Desktop connected to wireless router, XP laptop connected via wireless.

Thought I had everything turned on, but they still don't see each other and now I get an annoying Microsoft Network login screen interruping my 98 bootup each time I turn on the computer...which is annoying in itself.

I just get the feeling this would be much easier on a MAC. :)

-todd

If you goto your Win98 machine, on the network config (on one of the tabs) there is a dropdown to determine which will be your first logon screen. I bet it now says "Windows network logon" or something like that, while the next option says "Windows Logon" or something like that, switch to "Windows Logon" and see if that helps. I wish I didn't throw out all my Win95/98 support books (never had to support ME in corporate environment, so never had those books)

[James_F]

Enabling NeBUI is a crutch that doesn't solve the real problem. What are the IPs of both machines? I'd remove and reinstall TCP/IP. A pure TCP/IP network is much cleaner than one using NetBUI IMO.

[Wedgecon]

Yeah as NetBeui is not routeable it would have to bridged which as mentioned generates way to much traffic, but not having a network layer does allow it sometimes to run faster on a single network segment. There is another way to have NetBeui cross rotuers called DLSw (Data Link Switching) but I do not think any home rotuer supports this protocol.

MS File & Print using only TCP/IP can also be a pain with some versions of Windows as there may not be a name resolution method in place to resolve MS Computer Names to IP Addresses. All versions support a LMHOSTS file or a WINS Server and most can be setup to use DNS, but remember as TCP/IP does not allow broadcasts to go beyond a router you may have trouble browsing in Network Nehiborhood. I see this all the time when people try to MS Network with just TCP/IP.

As to XP as stated by others MS no longer supports it but it is on the CD under:
VALUEADD\MSFT\NET\NETBEUI

[gcutler]

Originally posted by James_F
Enabling NeBUI is a crutch that doesn't solve the real problem. What are the IPs of both machines? I'd remove and reinstall TCP/IP. A pure TCP/IP network is much cleaner than one using NetBUI IMO.

It may be, but I have a feeling that installing NetBeui in these occasions may take several hours less time than fixing the real problem. Which being there in person may require.

[MikeW]

One other thing to try is to ping the gateway on both machines. The gateway is the IP Address of the router. Usually it is either 192.168.0.1 or 192.168.1.1 (the manual should be of help). If both PCs can ping the router, then TCP/IP is correctly configured.

[Wedgecon]

Originally posted by MikeW
One other thing to try is to ping the gateway on both machines. The gateway is the IP Address of the router. Usually it is either 192.168.0.1 or 192.168.1.1 (the manual should be of help). If both PCs can ping the router, then TCP/IP is correctly configured.

Not always, even an improperly configured TCP/IP stack can sometimes ping it's default gateway, the real test is if it can ping beyond the gateway

And just having TCP/IP working is no guarantee of MS File and Print working.

I would make sure the two machines can ping each other by ip address and MS computer name. If they can not put the following entries into the LMHOSTS file
Location of LMHOSTS
Win9x C:\WINDOWS
WinNT/2000/XP c:\winnt\system32\drivers\etc

use edit to edit the LMHOSTS file and put the following two entries where computer1 and 2 are the names of your pc's and xx.xx.xx.xx is their ip address.

computer1 xx.xx.xx.xx #pre
computer2 xx.xx.xx.xx #pre

save the file and exit the editor
Run the following commands from a DOS or Command prompt:

nbtstat -R
nbtstat -c

The -R and -c are case sensitive,

After the -c option you should get a list of the other computer if not then I would check to see if MS Networking is installed on booth machines.

Make sure the computers have the same Workgroup name

Wait 15 minutes for any browser elections to take palce and see if MS Networking is working...

If all of this does not work you need to get your pc looked at:

[JBKing]

Thanks for all the replies. I installed NetBeui on the XP machine. Now the 98 pc can see the XP and can use the printer. Something must still be wrong somewhere, because the XP can not get to the 98 pc, but can ping it. I'll keep looking, but I'm almost there! Thanks again for all the help. :)

[gcutler]

Well, Selling my Dell Dimension 4100 and reverting it all back to what it came with, WINME, etc. And I setup network folder and print sharing on the machine (after applying all service packs and patches available) And just using TCPIP I had no problem for the XP&2000 machines seeing the ME machine and the ME machine seeing the XP&2000 machines. So it isn't an issue about compatibility suggested before. Something definately has to be misconfigured somewhere, as Netbeui is not needed (but is a quick fix)

[toddjb]

Darn, still no luck getting networking between computers for file/print sharing.

I have a D-Link DI-614+

98 on the desktop, XP on the laptop.

I can run the wizard on XP to get a Microsoft Network started, but the disk it creates to run on my 98 machine doesn't succeed. Tells me it can not run the wizard because the network hardware is not configured....which doesn't make sense.

Is there something else to enable on the 98 machine?

Thanks,
-todd

[Bogy]

This may not be the answer to anyone's problem, since it does not seem to exactly fit anyone's description of their problem, but in light of the topic of this thread, and that it has not come up so far, I thought it might be useful.

My copy of Computer Shopper today, which contains a an article "10 Quick Fixes for Common PC Problems."
#8 is "I'm having trouble sharing files with the Windows XP machine(s) on my network."
Solution: Another Window's "feature" that's more trouble than it's worth, XP's Internet Connection Firewall (ICF) not only prevents Internet hackers from accessing your PC, but it also blocks file and printer sharing. It may not be the only culprit--Windows offers plenty of other LAN complications that can scuttle sharing--but it's definitely one of them.

Fortunately, it's relatively easy to disable ICF. Open Control Panel and choose Network Connections. Right-click your LAN adapter, then click Properties. In the Advanced tab, uncheck the box in the Internet Connection Firewall field.

FWIW.

[gcutler]

Anyone have experience with the 802.11g standard? Is it as good as they say?

I have a machine that no one wants to buy and I'm debating on getting a Wireless Access Point and card for it so I can use it upstairs. If I go 11b I can get PCI card and Access point for a little over $100 total. But then there is the 11g which if I buy the right combo of equipment (closer to $200 I can get 4x the speed).

I guess primary reason would be to surf the internet?, but I would probably use is for the MCSE and Lotus learning so more than 10MBps would not be totally wasted.