Poor customer support!

[joes05rv]

I ordered an equipment upgrade last week; about 2:15 PM on 11/19/07 the installer showed up with the wrong equipment and was confused about the work to be done. When he said that the wrong equipment was all he had for my home I sent him away.

I have been a Premier, HD Access, Local, 4 receiver, customer for many years and I hope this wrong equipment failure is not DirecTV's way of telling me to go to Dish satellite service or Time Warner cable.

I ordered a HR-20 700 receiver, a HD receiver, a 5 LNB dish, and 6x8 Multi-switch and the DirecTV representative who took my order argeed to have that specific equipment installed at my residence today at no cost. I want only a HR-20 700 receiver because it also decodes local HD over the air broadcasts which the HR-21 cannot do. The HR-21 is not for me, is wrong, and is unacceptable.

Someone at the installer's office gave the lame excuse that the HR-21 receiver was the only one they had at their office. I asked them to order the HR-20 700 for me and either UPS or Fed-X would get it to my residence and then the installer could do the work. The lame excuse again was that the installer company has no control over the equiment they are given to install at a DirecTV customer's location.

I called DirecTV and received lame excuses from the service rep. and customer retention rep. that they cannot control what model HD-DVR a customer receives. This is nonsense!

I asked to be connected to someone in DirecTV who controls the inventory and was told that they do not know who that would be and cannot help me further. I canceled the order for the HD equipment upgrade since the HR-21 is unacceptable.

I cannot believe that a DirecTV Vice-President would be satified with such lame excuses and service if they had ordered an HR-20-700 receiver, and received the same poor service. They would find a way for DirecTV to get the proper model installed when and where they wanted. No one would be satisfied if you ordered a Ford pickup and Ford sent you a compact car with the lame excuse that the compact car was all they had to satisfy your order for a pickup.

Please forward my problem to the top managers in DirecTV so they are aware of my situation and can resolve it with the installation of the proper (HR-20 700) equipment. I am sure they would want to correct service failures that could cost DirecTV customers and bad publicity.

Does DirecTV want its customers to order the new HD equipment, then cancel the order when the installer arrives because they did not bring a HR-20 700. Then hours or the next day order again and then go through the order and cancel process until the customer finally gets what they ordered? It seems like a ridiculous and costly way for DirecTV to run their business.

[CJTE]

I skimmed it.

No one can guarantee you that you'll get an HR20-700.
Your options are:
1) try and chase one down
2) buy one at a brick & mortar store, some BB's have a couple left, Costcos and CC's may be an option
3) live without it.

If you dont like it, enjoy Dish or TWC/RR.

On top of that, the HR20-700 isnt even being produced anymore because the HR21-700's.
See the manufacturer code?
If HR21-100's start being produced I'm expecting the HR20-100's to go bye bye too.


ADDITION:
In regards to your ford theory. If you ordered an F150 with a Bose stereo system, and Bose no longer offered their systems to Ford, and your options were trying to find a dealership that had an F150 with a Bose, settling for an F150 with a Sony, or going to chevy...
Your comparison is apples to oranges. Truck to car, HDDVR to STD.

[PoitNarf]

Please forward my problem to the top managers in DirecTV so they are aware of my situation and can resolve it with the installation of the proper (HR-20 700) equipment. I am sure they would want to correct service failures that could cost DirecTV customers and bad publicity.

First of all, welcome to DBSTalk!

Sorry to hear about your troubles. Only thing I can think of is seeing if D* would compensate you for a receiver you purchase from a retail or online store... that way you could be absolutely certain as to which receiver you get.

As for forwarding your problem up the chain, this isn't a D* run site. You'll probably stand a better chance calling or emailing them directly. This site is by no means an official way of correspondence with D*.

[gulfwarvet]

I agree on what Mr. CJTE has stated, i made his comments in Bold on what options you have.


No one can guarantee you that you'll get an HR20-700.
Your options are:
1) try and chase one down
2) buy one at a brick & mortar store, some BB's have a couple left, Costcos and CC's may be an option
3) live without it./quote]

and as Mr. PoitNarf has stated i 2nd a Welcome to DBSTalk :)
but take note to what he has mentioned, that this isn't a D* run web-site.

[quote=PoitNarf;1293383]First of all, welcome to DBSTalk!
As for forwarding your problem up the chain, this isn't a D* run site. You'll probably stand a better chance calling or emailing them directly. This site is by no means an official way of correspondence with D*.

[MikeW]

I notice that two of the three responses have sigs showing you guys already have HR20-700's. Cut the newbie a little slack! While it is true that the HR20-700 is not in production, the HR20-100 still is. Are your HD locals available on DirecTV? If so, is there a particular channel or sub-channel you are looking for? Try asking DirecTV if they can do the install without the box and credit you the difference between what they offered you and what you'll have to pay at a retail store to get the box you are looking for.

[CJTE]

I notice that two of the three responses have sigs showing you guys already have HR20-700's. Cut the newbie a little slack! While it is true that the HR20-700 is not in production, the HR20-100 still is. Are your HD locals available on DirecTV? If so, is there a particular channel or sub-channel you are looking for? Try asking DirecTV if they can do the install without the box and credit you the difference between what they offered you and what you'll have to pay at a retail store to get the box you are looking for.

With apologies to the OP...
I had the same thing in mind... But I wanted to get a response first. The HR20-100 is a possibility, and I definetly recommend calling D* and asking them about the difference in regards to the box.

A quick call in to the installation dept and I was told that if I wanted to go buy an HDDVR from Costco, they would credit my account $100. Maybe the op can get a similar deal.

[boba]

I notice that two of the three responses have sigs showing you guys already have HR20-700's. Cut the newbie a little slack! While it is true that the HR20-700 is not in production, the HR20-100 still is. Are your HD locals available on DirecTV? If so, is there a particular channel or sub-channel you are looking for? Try asking DirecTV if they can do the install without the box and credit you the difference between what they offered you and what you'll have to pay at a retail store to get the box you are looking for.Why cut the op some slack? He admits that he has been a D* customer for many years then after the HR20's are replaced by HR21s he demands that he be given a scarce product. I believe D* does not have an obligation to find him an HR20 if he wants one now it his responsiblity to find it himself and pay the going price The HR20s were available for over a year with some pretty good upgrade deals. .:( :( :(

[Upstream]

Why cut the op some slack? He admits that he has been a D* customer for many years then after the HR20's are replaced by HR21s he demands that he be given a scarce product. I believe D* does not have an obligation to find him an HR20 if he wants one now it his responsiblity to find it himself and pay the going price The HR20s were available for over a year with some pretty good upgrade deals. .:( :( :(

I read his complaint differently.

He called an asked for an HR20 and was told that he would receive one. Then he was delivered a different product, and was told that DTV has no control over what product they deliver.

To promise him the product he wants and deliver a different product sounds like bait and switch.

If DTV has no HR20s and should have told him initially that they no longer have HR20s, then he could have made a decision to order something else or not order at all.

If DTV has HR20s, then they should deliver him an HR20, since that is the product he ordered.


It is amazing that DTV either doesn't know if they have HR20s and can't control whether they deliver HR20s or HR21s.

[bnglbill]

Why cut the op some slack? He admits that he has been a D* customer for many years then after the HR20's are replaced by HR21s he demands that he be given a scarce product. I believe D* does not have an obligation to find him an HR20 if he wants one now it his responsiblity to find it himself and pay the going price The HR20s were available for over a year with some pretty good upgrade deals. .:( :( :(

I think we're all missing the underlying complaint here... The removal of the OTA tuner. This is a justified argument. if I were to order an HD dvr today and they brought a tuner that didn't have the ability to recieve ota channels, I would be highly upset, to say the least.

[Doug Brott]

As for forwarding your problem up the chain, this isn't a D* run site. You'll probably stand a better chance calling or emailing them directly. This site is by no means an official way of correspondence with D*.

Absolutely .. While there is a lot of DIRECTV talk on this site, we are all customers just like the original poster. We're glad to help in many ways, but alas, we don't have a direct line to DIRECTV nor control over their processes.

[Mike728]

I think this leans more into the category of poor customer service training, than poor customer support. I highly doubt that most DirecTV CSR's have any idea of what they're selling.

[Doug Brott]

I think we're all missing the underlying complaint here... The removal of the OTA tuner. This is a justified argument. if I were to order an HD dvr today and they brought a tuner that didn't have the ability to recieve ota channels, I would be highly upset, to say the least.

I don't think the argument was missed .. that is the whole point of an HR20 vs. an HR21. It is reasonable to expect to get a receiver capable of receiving OTA, especially since the HR20 is still in production (HR20-100). The installer may, in fact be very limited in what they can provide .. if an HR20-700 was requested, it may be that there are no HR20-700s and that there are only HR21-700s. The confusion may be in the "700" and not in the HR20 vs. HR21.

It's not clear that the OP has an option other than (1) trying again and hoping that an HR20-100 shows up or (2) calling/contacting DIRECTV again and asking until the situation is satisfactory. This is the one point that I would like to see resolved sooner rather than later because clearly it is an issue for some people.

[Upstream]

Poor training may be part of the cause, but the result is poor customer support.


I am amazed that people on this board will excuse treatment from DirecTV that they wouldn't put up with elsewhere. If I went to Best Buy and talked to a sales rep who sold me a television, and then they loaded a different model TV into my car, I wouldn't accept it. And if Best Buy then told me that they had no control over what model they bring out of the back room and didn't even know if they had the model I ordered, I would stop shopping there. I wouldn't excuse their failures just because they need to provide better training and need to get a better inventory control system.

[memory]

Ok for starters there are 3 models of the HD DVR out there and the H20-700 was the first model and then came the other models soooooo when the csr's tell you that they dont have control over what your getting THERE NOT LYING!!!!! WE havent had a hr-20-700 in our warehouse in a couple on months and we have over 250 techs soooo we are going through alot of them and if we do get any Ill bet they will be refurbs then you will complain about that sooo like someone else said if you want a specific model YOU will have to find it and if someone got pissed about the model I had and that was the only model I had access to hmm OHHH WELL!!!!

[memory]

Does DirecTV want its customers to order the new HD equipment, then cancel the order when the installer arrives because they did not bring a HR-20 700. Then hours or the next day order again and then go through the order and cancel process until the customer finally gets what they ordered? It seems like a ridiculous and costly way for DirecTV to run their business.[/QUOTE]

YOU ordered a HD DVR and thats what your installer had!!!!

[cnmsales]

The best thing to do is call and set up the service call. Then call the local install company and explain to them that you need the hr20 because of OTA. If they are still unable to help then purchase one at a B&M and then have D* credit your account back for the cost. Other then this if you are wanting to complain i would suggest emailing D* directly. I have seen that others have good luck with this.

[swans]

these days. Customer service doesn't mean anything to most companies. It's mostly just lip service and barriers. Make it as hard as possible until the customer gives up. They might lose a few, but most will just take it, complain, and then go on with there life after getting the "we are sorry, but this is the best we can do!"

[papa_azteca]

I have to question the motive here from the OP. Although he is new here he seems to know alot about the difference between the *20 and *21 models something that most customers don't even know about therefore not even question the agent about the model number. Although he may be new to the forum I think he tried to accomplish something that he already knew he would not receive based off some other threads regarding the same request.

As for the bait and switch, D* is offering him an HD DVR for the same price. They are not charging him more or less (I think he stated free) for one that includes an OTA tuner than the one that doesn't. Let's see, the *21 has a different size hd and two ethernet ports (although one is not being used). Does that mean that we should all through up our hands and complain that we received an inferior model bc ours is different? D* has always stated that they cannot control what is delivered to the customer via upgrade installations. This is not new. Don't you all remember the "I want a black HR20 instead of a silver one"? And I understand the "want" vs the "need" but we are paying D* for services that come off of their satellite. The inclusion of OTA tuner was an added "bonus" in my eyes. I can't get one of my local channels in HD from D* bc of who owns it. But I can still watch it via my HD TV tuner I just can't record it.

Let's seperate it to what this is: we as customers FEEL that since we pay D* money each month for satellite services and have been acustomed to a service outside of what the monthly payment covers we should still receive it. We don't NEED OTA on our D*; we WANT it. If there is a true NEED then we will find a way, regardless of the way, to be able to fulfill that NEED. And bc of that we have choices to make.

[BattleZone]

The Home Service Providers (HSPs), who are the big contracting companies that oversee all of DirecTV's "internal" installations, don't get a choice when they order equipment. They can only order x number of "HD-DVRs". DirecTV's Long Beach warehouse then sends them whatever they happen to have in stock.

If they have old stock in the local warehouse, they might be able to get you a specific model, but HSPs only have 90 days to get receivers installed before they get charged back for them, and individual contractors are only given 30 days, so equipment doesn't stick around long. In fact, most HSPs are only going to have the newest equipment available for this reason.

Retailers buy receivers for cash upfront, so they can sit on them until they get sold. Thus, you're far more likely to find older stock from a retailer than through an HSP.

[msmith198025]

The best thing to do is call and set up the service call. Then call the local install company and explain to them that you need the hr20 because of OTA. If they are still unable to help then purchase one at a B&M and then have D* credit your account back for the cost. Other then this if you are wanting to complain i would suggest emailing D* directly. I have seen that others have good luck with this.

Good advice. Easiest way to hande this that i see. Some areas really do have a low supply of hr-20 100s, even the actual stores, but you are more likely to get exactly what you want that way.

[PicaKing]

joes05rv--there must be like 10,000 posts on here about the HR20 vs. the HR21 and how you can't be assured of receiving one over the other. How could you not know that? Even if you look at this forum once, that info is likely what you would see.

Since D* can do nothing right for you, go to cable. You seem very unhappy with the service, so if that's the case, leave.

[Doug Brott]

I have to question the motive here from the OP. Although he is new here he seems to know alot about the difference between the *20 and *21 models something that most customers don't even know about therefore not even question the agent about the model number. Although he may be new to the forum I think he tried to accomplish something that he already knew he would not receive based off some other threads regarding the same request.

Being a first time poster is not an indicator that the OP is either stupid or ignorant. Clearly the guy did his homework and he is unhappy with the results. It also appears that he knew that this might be the outcome.

Now, the unfortunate thing is that there may not be an acceptable solution. The OP may have to live with the outcome until the situation changes (as is expected). In a perfect world, this would not be the case, but sometimes reality gets in the way of life.

[Canis Lupus]

I've posted this before, but I believe it's in D*'s best interest to do some kind of supply chain management of HR-20's to areas of the country where they do not yet provide HD LiLs.

Maybe it's a hassle, but IMO it's worth it for this transition time between the launch of D11, adding the rest of the DMAs for HD LiLs, the phasing in/out of new receivers, and/or coming up with an OTA solution (third party or otherwise) for the HR-21.

It wouldn't last forever, and D* could save themselves and their customers a lot of aggravation by targeting their supplies to proper areas of the country.

It may not help someone who wants PBS or subs because the HR-21 is the only option in their HD LiL area, but it sure would help in areas where people are still waiting for LiLs.

[bnglbill]

I've posted this before, but I believe it's in D*'s best interest to do some kind of supply chain management of HR-20's to areas of the country where they do not yet provide HD LiLs.

Maybe it's a hassle, but IMO it's worth it for this transition time between the launch of D11, adding the rest of the DMAs for HD LiLs, the phasing in/out of new receivers, and/or coming up with an OTA solution (third party or otherwise) for the HR-21.

It wouldn't last forever, and D* could save themselves and their customers a lot of aggravation by targeting their supplies to proper areas of the country.

It may not help someone who wants PBS or subs because the HR-21 is the only option in their HD LiL area, but it sure would help in areas where people are still waiting for LiLs.

I can't understand why the OTA was eliminated. It seems to be a major deciding factor in switching to Directv for alot of people, they want to make sure they can still get their locals. Even if D provides locals, they could never get a 100% of any market coverage. I have several local channels that the local cable company offers that D never will, so it is very important to me as well.

[Mike728]

I can't understand why the OTA was eliminated.


Cost savings.

[Doug Brott]

Cost savings.

Plus, it hasn't been eliminated which is being discussed elsewhere. We are in a transition period, and it is true that it could have been handled better. However, it is very likely there were factors that could not be predicted that have made this situation more difficult than it has been.

[joes05rv]

On 11/19/07, I canceled my order since DirecTV would not honor it's promise to upgrade my HR10-250 with a HR20-700 (a DVR with the same features/functions). The HR10's OTA ability (which the HR21 lacks) is needed to view Los Angeles area OTA broadcasts that are not included in DirecTV's local package (which I subscribe to) such as Dopler weather maps on 4-3, 7-3, HD PBS on 58-1, etc. The ability to pause the receiver while taking a pee or food break is another feature that makes the HR20 OTA DVR vastly superior to the HR21.

I called DirecTV later on the 19th and received no satisfaction regarding my requests to talk to "case management" or escalate my request up the management hierarchy to someone who can say yes. I was offered a refund of $100 if I bought a HR20 from some retailer; I said I may think about it. I also discovered that my account was charged $417.95 on 11/15/07 for the FREE upgrade and equipment I was promised; I also complained about that too. I was told that it would be corrected. I smelled bait and switch marketing, and asked what has gone wrong at DirecTV. I now wonder if it was a mistake to trust DirecTV to deal honestly with my direct bill pay setup. I again received more appologies from the CSR's.

Yesterday evening, I received a call asking if I would reinstate my upgrade order if DirecTV would ship an HR20-700 directly to my home, and then arrange for the installation. I agreed to that offer, and after my prompting the CSR found the FREE upgrade in my record. Time will tell if DirecTV is able to properly manage it's business.

Today, I found an open box HR20-700 at a nearby Costco, with a made in China and Mrf. date of 9-21-07 sticker on it. All the parts were in the box and Costco's price was $269.99 for the last one they had at that store.

This evening, I also received another DirecTV automated call offering to upgrade my HD equipment.

I realize now that I cannot trust DirecTV and the installer to correctly communicate with one another so I will have to check and double check everything that the installer is supposed to do. So far, I purchased all my DTV equipment from retail stores and have nothing that was free from DirecTV. I installed my original DirecTV setup in the early 90's. I then did the work to upgrade my system to HDTV several years ago. I did the interior wiring (with Radio Shack's RG-6 copper coated steel coax). I also do extensive homework before making purchases. My previous DirecTV experiences and service has been very good because I am very careful and exacting in my workmanship, in contrast to the quick and careless workmanship you usually receive from a contractor.

I do not think it is unreasonable as a customer to expect get what any retailer, organization, contractor, or service promises as their side of the bargain. I hope DirecTV will live up to it's HR20-700 promise and not disappoint me again.

[CJTE]

Good luck with that.
Worst case scenario you were offered the $100 credit for purchasing the receiver at Costco, they just dont know you got it with a discount due to it being open box.

Also, im betting the $417 was a Non-Return Fee. Because thats what the Non-Return fee's usually run. Paying the lease price of the reciever plus shipping wouldve only ran you about $320... so $417 doesnt make sense.

[Ken S]

How is it that DirecTV CAN'T determine whether someone gets an OTA capable receiver or not? They're different units, different models. They have to have some sort of inventory system because they can tell the difference between other systems that people order.
We should be asking why isn't DirecTV making sure people get the receiver they want?
The CSR may not be able to make the determination...but that's only because someone at DirecTV that they shouldn't be able to...not that it isn't possible.

[JLucPicard]

DirecTVs current delivery model is to ship masses of units to the installation companies and the installers draw the equipment they need to install from that inventory. If the HD-DVRs that DirecTV ships to the install companies are all HR21s and does not include any HR20s, the installers certainly cannot guarantee an HR20.

DirecTV doesn't tailor each person's installations to what they requested outside of the basic connotations of SD Receiver, SD-DVR, HD Receiver, HD-DVR models. Same reason they couldn't guarantee you would get the HR20-100B (the black one) versus an HR20-100S (silver) versus an HR20-700. They do not control the inventory down to that specific level.

[Upstream]

JLuc -- but certainly DirecTV could determine if they are shipping an HR20 or HR21 when they ship directly to the customer from their own warehouse.

[Ken S]

DirecTVs current delivery model is to ship masses of units to the installation companies and the installers draw the equipment they need to install from that inventory. If the HD-DVRs that DirecTV ships to the install companies are all HR21s and does not include any HR20s, the installers certainly cannot guarantee an HR20.

DirecTV doesn't tailor each person's installations to what they requested outside of the basic connotations of SD Receiver, SD-DVR, HD Receiver, HD-DVR models. Same reason they couldn't guarantee you would get the HR20-100B (the black one) versus an HR20-100S (silver) versus an HR20-700. They do not control the inventory down to that specific level.

Okay...so they can't add HD-DVR OTA and HD OTA to their system types? C'mon there's no "can't" to this...they either don't want to or don't care enough about customer service to do so. A CSR may not be able to do this...but whoever is in charge of their ordering and installation certainly could make this happen...if they cared enough to do so.

I assume when the HR2X Pro becomes available they'll "somehow be able to make sure that isn't just shipped out to anyone.

[JLucPicard]

Okay...so they can't add HD-DVR OTA and HD OTA to their system types? C'mon there's no "can't" to this...they either don't want to or don't care enough about customer service to do so. A CSR may not be able to do this...but whoever is in charge of their ordering and installation certainly could make this happen...if they cared enough to do so.

I assume when the HR2X Pro becomes available they'll "somehow be able to make sure that isn't just shipped out to anyone.
Ya, you're right. DirecTV is just out to screw everybody they can in every way they can. I should have seen it sooner. Thanks for opening my eyes. :nono2:

[bnglbill]

The problem is, they are different receivers with different capabilities, you are making a blind purchase, that just isn't right. If you call and say I want to switch to Directv and I want a hd dvr but I need to be able to hook up an OTA antenna, what is there answer? Well based on the information we have, the answer should be, "well, there is a 50 50 chance that you can do that". Not an answer I want to hear when I am trying to decide whether to do business with them or not

IMHO, if they are going to have different receivers with different capabilities, they need to be able to tell you which one you are going to get, it's just good business!

[Ken S]

Ya, you're right. DirecTV is just out to screw everybody they can in every way they can. I should have seen it sooner. Thanks for opening my eyes. :nono2:

That's a solid response and certainly a reasonable interpretation of what I wrote. Was I wrong? Is DirecTV incapable of differentiating between the receivers they distribute? Maybe they have a distribution system that can only handle ten items and they're over the limit?
Please tell me why it is they can't do this...perhaps it's the customer's fault in some way. Let us know.

[Upstream]

Actually JLuc's response is fairly accurate, even though it is a bit over the top.

DirecTV already has an inventory system which is capable of distinguishing between receivers and controlling what the customer recieves. That is why you don't get an HD DVR when you order an R15.

The only reason that they can't distinguish between an HR20 and an HR21 is because the decided not to.

Directv made the decision that the benefits of keeping the HR20 and HR21 the same in their ordering system (reduced inventory managment costs) was more important than meeting customer needs (ensuring OTA functionality for customers who need it).

[Ken S]

Actually JLuc's response is fairly accurate, even though it is a bit over the top.

No, it's not if he's describing what I wrote. I didn't say, "DirecTV is just out to screw everybody they can in every way they can."

If that's his belief, or your's go for it....it's not mine. Unlike many here I don't "love" or "hate" DirecTV. I do think they could improve a great deal in certain areas and make the entire customer experience as good as their top-line service offerings (depth and breadth of networks/channels offered).

What I did indicate is that they have made a decision here not to meet the needs of customers that want OTA in a fairly simple way. Why they did it this way I have no idea. I doubt it was out of a desire to "screw" their customers and probably relates more to either sloppiness or a lack of communication within the company on the differences between the 2/4 machines and how that would affect certain customers.

We do know that they did replace the guy that headed up the groups that presumably handle this type of thing about two months back. Hopefully, this was something he hasn't gotten to and not a sign of more of what's coming.

[Upstream]

The word "screw" is over the top. But DirecTV is certainly not putting the needs of their customers first.

Even if they didn't initally realize that customers would not consider the HR20 and HR21 interchangeable, they certainly know it now.

[bnglbill]

The word "screw" is over the top. But DirecTV is certainly not putting the needs of their customers first.

Even if they didn't initally realize that customers would not consider the HR20 and HR21 interchangeable, they certainly know it now.

Let's hope so...

[joe diamond]

I have to question the motive here from the OP. Although he is new here he seems to know alot about the difference between the *20 and *21 models something that most customers don't even know about therefore not even question the agent about the model number. Although he may be new to the forum I think he tried to accomplish something that he already knew he would not receive based off some other threads regarding the same request.

As for the bait and switch, D* is offering him an HD DVR for the same price. They are not charging him more or less (I think he stated free) for one that includes an OTA tuner than the one that doesn't. Let's see, the *21 has a different size hd and two ethernet ports (although one is not being used). Does that mean that we should all through up our hands and complain that we received an inferior model bc ours is different? D* has always stated that they cannot control what is delivered to the customer via upgrade installations. This is not new. Don't you all remember the "I want a black HR20 instead of a silver one"? And I understand the "want" vs the "need" but we are paying D* for services that come off of their satellite. The inclusion of OTA tuner was an added "bonus" in my eyes. I can't get one of my local channels in HD from D* bc of who owns it. But I can still watch it via my HD TV tuner I just can't record it.

Let's seperate it to what this is: we as customers FEEL that since we pay D* money each month for satellite services and have been acustomed to a service outside of what the monthly payment covers we should still receive it. We don't NEED OTA on our D*; we WANT it. If there is a true NEED then we will find a way, regardless of the way, to be able to fulfill that NEED. And bc of that we have choices to make.

Pappa,

You hit on a fundamental problem. As you said..."we as customers FEEL that since we pay D* money each month for satellite services and have been acustomed to a service outside of what the monthly payment covers we should still receive it. But the confusion arises when former cable customers or OTA only customers come to expect the same FREE installation and equipment from the satellite program providers. DTV provides programming. They are a program provider. My view is they involve themselves in bits and pieces of the installation and equipment side of the service only if there is no other way. The system has been evolving and is now much more complex that day one of the service. Customers have diverse expectations but DTV has fine print to explain what they offer.

Joe

[kevinwmsn]

We would hope they are keeping up what models that they have in inventory, but maybe they don't have the option for the CSR to pick which one. I got lucky when I recently replaced my HR10-250(died), I got a broken HR20-100 then to replace that I got a HR20-700. I got an 700 last week, it was like an early Christmas present.

[aramus8]

It was several months after I had my HR20-700 before I was able to access OTA. They did finally did get around to the CE, then the national release that enabled OTA on the HR20 so this isn't something D* hasn't done before. Hopefully whatever OTA plans they have for the HR21 will be implemented in a reasonable amount of time. From previous history OTA just isn't first priority with their receivers, their business after all is "satellite" television.

[Jhon69]

Cost savings.



I know how I would save costs.Find the genius that thought of this and Fire him or her!.
D11 is not up so alot of the planned HD locals are not up either.Besides what gives DirecTV the right to try and force subscribers to subscribe to their locals?.
It gives them the right if they want to lose customers!.Everything was going good
the HD channels are coming online and then"Hey! why don't we throw a monkey wrench into the machine and see if it stops"!.I only have one question"DirecTV want the hell were you thinking"? and"Are you thinking"!.I think NOT!!.:rolleyes:

[CJTE]

... DirecTV's not forcing you to do anything. They decided not to carry OTA on their new generation HD receivers, I dont know why, but if you dont like it you do have the option to leave...

EX:
Sprint decided their new (old) phones could no longer SMS without connecting to the internet, it was slow, and a gargantuant pain in the ass, and in the end, I dont remember if I even had the option to text back, so, I dropped them as my provider to go with someone who better met my needs (T-Mobile, who gave me unlimited txt'ing for $10/month), and I got a better price too.

[Upstream]

CJTE -- If DirecTV just made the decision to cut costs by eliminating OTA on their new generation of DVRs, that is their call. But if they are still telling customers that the DVRs have OTA capability, then it is poor customer service (or maybe even illegal).

As far as the comment "if you dont like it you do have the option to leave", for people under commitments, that option contains penalties.

[CJTE]

CJTE -- If DirecTV just made the decision to cut costs by eliminating OTA on their new generation of DVRs, that is their call. But if they are still telling customers that the DVRs have OTA capability, then it is poor customer service (or maybe even illegal).

As far as the comment "if you dont like it you do have the option to leave", for people under commitments, that option contains penalties.

I agree with you 100%. DirecTV isnt playing nice by saying their HD DVR's have OTA. Technically they do, because there is more than one HDDVR with OTA (one MPEG2, and one MPEG4) However, what they dont tell you, or may be spelled out in very small print, is that there is 0 guarantee you will get one of these models.
Just a note, the HR20-100 is still in production. Its the -700 that's gone out of production.
My personal opinion, DirecTV should make some form of change in regards to their inventory system that reads wether or not people get locals offered by DirecTV, if they do not, they are first on the eligibility list for an HR20-100. Then people who dont get HD locals come next in line, followed by people who want the subchannels. For those of you that dont like what D* broadcasts, but are getting the 4 Networks in HD, I apologize, but I would put you far behind someone who doesnt get any locals at all.

[Milominderbinder2]

You can make sure that you get an HR20.

From the HD DVR FAQ (http://tinyurl.com/2jncjn):

What do I need to know about HD DVR ordering and installation?
→ Ordering Tips (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=839938#post839938) ● Installation Guide (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=67769) ● Installation Forum (http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=113)

How can I be sure I will get an HR20 instead of an HR21? I want all of my local channels!
→ How to get an HR20 instead of HR21 (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=1270572#post1270572)

- Craig

[CJTE]

You can make sure that you get an HR20.

From the HD DVR FAQ (http://tinyurl.com/2jncjn):

What do I need to know about HD DVR ordering and installation?
→ Ordering Tips (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=839938#post839938) ● Installation Guide (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=67769) ● Installation Forum (http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=113)

How can I be sure I will get an HR20 instead of an HR21? I want all of my local channels!
→ How to get an HR20 instead of HR21 (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=1270572#post1270572)

- Craig

Thats not a guarantee... But its about the closest thing you're going to get.

[frederic1943]

joes05rv - Just leave your HR10 hooked up to the TV for OTA viewing with an HR21 for HD satellite viewing.
I still have my HR10 hooked up to my HDTV by HDMI and an HR20 by component since I got the HR20 in 2006 before it had OTA capability.