View Full Version : What do you say when people ask...
"Why is the audio and video not synced? Their lips are moving, but no sound?"
We had this happen three times over the holiday from different people watching different shows off the HR20.
Personally, I explain that for whatever reason DirecTV hasn't mastered playing back a video recording yet. I then try a few trick-plays and pause and generally can get it back synced until someone wants to do something crazy like slip/FF/rewind.
"Why is the audio and video not synced? Their lips are moving, but no sound?"
We had this happen three times over the holiday from different people watching different shows off the HR20.
Personally, I explain that for whatever reason DirecTV hasn't mastered playing back a video recording yet. I then try a few trick-plays and pause and generally can get it back synced until someone wants to do something crazy like slip/FF/rewind.
Has absolutely, nothing to do with DirecTV, it's your use of the worlds worst digital interface, HDMI.
When it happens to me (on the one HD set I have hooked up that way) is, beyond rebooting/output cycling the monitor, sat box, or DVD player, is make a note to up my 'BAD HDMI' counter at my IEEE account. BTW, the 'HDMI' groups latest 'fix' is a several hundred $$$ active cable interface for those who have 'intractable' problems.
HDMI will be on the endangered list come first of next year, when at least 2 other digital interfaces will start making their appearance on various consumer electronics devices. Hopefully a year from now, it'll be HISTORY.
Has absolutely, nothing to do with DirecTV, it's your use of the worlds worst digital interface, HDMI.
When it happens to me (on the one HD set I have hooked up that way) is, beyond rebooting/output cycling the monitor, sat box, or DVD player, is make a note to up my 'BAD HDMI' counter at my IEEE account. BTW, the 'HDMI' groups latest 'fix' is a several hundred $$$ active cable interface for those who have 'intractable' problems.
HDMI will be on the endangered list come first of next year, when at least 2 other digital interfaces will start making their appearance on various consumer electronics devices. Hopefully a year from now, it'll be HISTORY.
Then why has it never happened when I watch a DVD or HD DVD?
cygnusloop
11-24-07, 04:28 PM
Has absolutely, nothing to do with DirecTV, it's your use of the worlds worst digital interface, HDMI.
HISTORY.
Sorry, but the recent issues with audio sync with DIRECTV/HR2x have nothing to do with HDMI. After having gone months and months with nothing but a few minor sync problems (usually attributable to the networks), the last month or so has been terrible. BTW, I am using component connection for video, and TOSLINK for audio. No HDMI anywhere in the signal chain.
IMHO, currently, for the most part, it has everything to do with DIRECTV. I don't know if it has something to do with the encoders not playing well with the receivers, or if something has just gone wacky in the software. This is something that was fine (over HDMI and component) and has changed recently.
Ken,
I tell them to get over it and just enjoy the stunning picture. ;)
litzdog911
11-24-07, 04:33 PM
There can be several causes of out-of-synch audio/video, including:
* Original source broadcast: This seems to be all-to-common with some network broadcasts and certain HiDef networks. There's nothing you can do about the problem if it's caused by the source, other than complain to them.
* HDMI Audio/Video interface: Some TVs and AV Receivers don't do a great job processing the audio and video simultaneously. If your out-of-synch timing is always the same, regardless of the source channel, then try using component video plus digital audio connections instead of the HDMI connection to see if that helps. Note that sometimes this problem will be different if the source channel uses DD5.1 audio instead of 2-ch PCM audio. Also, some newer TVs and AV Receivers allow you to independently set audio/video delay to compensate for this problem. Check your TV or AV Receiver owner's manual.
* Temporary DVR problem: Sometimes the DVR itself will get "confused" and the audio/video may go out-of-synch. Sometimes a simple FF/REW will clear that up. Or resetting the DVR will solve it. Or try pressing STOP to stop the recording and then press LIST to find your program and restart it. If you're watching Live TV, try changing the channels back & forth, or try rewinding slightly into the live recording buffer.
Here's a bit more information I've learned recently that might help explain why it's such a challenge to properly synchronize the audio/video ....
The digital TV standard (ATSC) allows for four different Dolby Digital DD5.1 audio rates (192, 224, 384 & 448kbps). Often the local stations will change these rates on the fly. For example, the network programming might be using 448kbps and then the station will switch to 224kbps. It's also one of the common causes of audio dropouts.
Has absolutely, nothing to do with DirecTV, it's your use of the worlds worst digital interface, HDMI.
When it happens to me (on the one HD set I have hooked up that way) is, beyond rebooting/output cycling the monitor, sat box, or DVD player, is make a note to up my 'BAD HDMI' counter at my IEEE account. BTW, the 'HDMI' groups latest 'fix' is a several hundred $$$ active cable interface for those who have 'intractable' problems.
HDMI will be on the endangered list come first of next year, when at least 2 other digital interfaces will start making their appearance on various consumer electronics devices. Hopefully a year from now, it'll be HISTORY.
Your statement may be true in some cases, but not in the case of the HR20. I have several HR20's and several H20's. I have three idential HDTV's I purchased all at the same time for lesser used rooms. Two are connected to HR20's and one to an H20. Every television I have is connected via HDMI (currently 11 DirecTV receivers running).
I can demonstrate time and time again where the HR20's are not in audo sync when the H20's are. Same channel, same dish, same multi-switch, same model TV, same hookups, but the HR20 is out of sync.
I've proven to my own satisfaction that the signal coming from DirecTV is fine since the H20's are in sync, but the HR20's are not able to decode and/or process the signal properly. I'm able to duplicate the problem on both -100 and -700 HR20 models, but they are not consistant between models. I am starting to think that the chipset used in the HR20 (not HR21) has some inherent problems. Even sophomoric programmers could process the output of an off the shelf chipset rather easily, but this has eluded the DirecTV guys. Makes me think the hardware has a problem (or the programmers are even worse than I thought).
In my case this is not an HDMI problem. In my case it's a problem with the HR20 every time. Every time.
Just for the fun of it I just tried an experiment. I was just watching Tank Overhaul on channel 76 and the audio was way out of sync on one of my HR20-100 receivers. I just checked it and it's fine on an H20-600.
I switched the HR20-100 to component. No difference.
The current HR20 audio sync issues are not HDMI problems and the same signal is fine on other model receivers.
rkreitl
11-24-07, 05:06 PM
To answer the OPs question, my answer is:
"It's the new POS DVR that D* is using." I don't use HMDI and I've never had this problem with my HR10's. I also add that this unit may or may not record what you tell it to record. It may or may not play those programs it says it recorded.
These are not HDMI only problems. HDMI is nothing more than another excuse just like guide data.
To answer the OPs question, my answer is:
"It's the new POS DVR that D* is using." I don't use HMDI and I've never had this problem with my HR10's. I also add that this unit may or may not record what you tell it to record. It may or may not play those programs it says it recorded.
These are not HDMI only problems. HDMI is nothing more than another excuse just like guide data.
You said what I was thinking.
I too am sick and tired of all the excuses. Start firing people.
Indiana627
11-24-07, 05:18 PM
In my case, I don't have to say anything as I've not experienced any sync issues to date.
To answer the OPs question, my answer is:
"It's the new POS DVR that D* is using." I don't use HMDI and I've never had this problem with my HR10's. I also add that this unit may or may not record what you tell it to record. It may or may not play those programs it says it recorded.
These are not HDMI only problems. HDMI is nothing more than another excuse just like guide data.
I've had mine for a year and I don't think it's a POS DVR. I don't use HMDI(or HDMI) and I've never had this problem with my HR20. I also add that my HR20 has never missed a recording. It has always played back those programs it says and did record.
I don't think it's a PoS, but the problem has gotten very bad lately. I doubt it's the original content since playing with pause can generally fix the issue...albeit temporarily.
If it's HDMI then I would have seen it at least once with my DVD juke box or HD-DVD player. I'm sure it is possible with HDMI, but that hasn't shown itself to be the cause in my case.
Cyg, generally...I just say let me fix that and do so. I'd prefer to be able to let people watch TV without me having to be involved though. But I guess the HR20 just requires a butler.
If word of mouth is a great form of advertising DirecTV needs the words and mouths to be in sync.
I don't think it's a PoS, but the problem has gotten very bad lately. I doubt it's the original content since playing with pause can generally fix the issue...albeit temporarily.
If it's HDMI then I would have seen it at least once with my DVD juke box or HD-DVD player. I'm sure it is possible with HDMI, but that hasn't shown itself to be the cause in my case.
Cyg, generally...I just say let me fix that and do so. I'd prefer to be able to let people watch TV without me having to be involved though. But I guess the HR20 just requires a butler.
If word of mouth is a great form of advertising DirecTV needs the words and mouths to be in sync.
If the HR20's not a POS, why then does it require snagging the remote from the poor viewer & "Fixing It"?
If it's not a POS, then why does the HR20 require a butler?
Just some thoughts to rethink! :eek2:
I've had mine for a year and I don't think it's a POS DVR. I don't use HMDI(or HDMI) and I've never had this problem with my HR20. I also add that my HR20 has never missed a recording. It has always played back those programs it says and did record.
That's awesome, I'm glad you're one f the lucky ones. I wish I was!!
Maybe you should consider sending your franken-box to DirecTV to have it analyzed so they can reverse engineer the 'Glitch' in your box that's making it work correctly and then provide that fix for all the other boxes.
You said what I was thinking.
I too am sick and tired of all the excuses. Start firing people.
ARRR!!!!
!danger:
If word of mouth is a great form of advertising DirecTV needs the words and mouths to be in sync.
You're giving me a great idea. I don't watch too many commercials, and you can't tell if they're out of sync or not for the most part. But, it would be interesting if DirecTV had a commercial that would look/sound bad if it were out of sync!
It would be a great YouTube post... a DirecTV commercial out of sync recorded or their own equipment.
I'm going to have to pay attention to some DirecTV commercials. This coud be fun!
Has absolutely, nothing to do with DirecTV, it's your use of the worlds worst digital interface, HDMI.
When it happens to me (on the one HD set I have hooked up that way) is, beyond rebooting/output cycling the monitor, sat box, or DVD player, is make a note to up my 'BAD HDMI' counter at my IEEE account. BTW, the 'HDMI' groups latest 'fix' is a several hundred $$$ active cable interface for those who have 'intractable' problems.
HDMI will be on the endangered list come first of next year, when at least 2 other digital interfaces will start making their appearance on various consumer electronics devices. Hopefully a year from now, it'll be HISTORY.
Really? Do you have anything to back any of that up? I have my HR20 connected to my TV with both HDMI and componant and it happened with both. The common part was the HR20.
rapjrhb
11-24-07, 07:11 PM
Really? Do you have anything to back any of that up? I have my HR20 connected to my TV with both HDMI and componant and it happened with both. The common part was the HR20.
I don't even use the HDMI interface. I am seeing the audio/video sync issues strictly through component.
bonscott87
11-24-07, 07:20 PM
Ken,
I say that's the way HD is and always has been at times. Look, I've seen the audio sync issue for *years* long before there were any HD DVRs. Saw it 6 years ago OTA and still see it OTA at times. It's just the nature of the technology and the HR20/21 is no better or worse then any other STB out there with sync issues. To totally blame DirecTV or the HR20 is just plain foolish. I can go to the Dish forums or cable forums and see posts about audio sync issues with those services too.
Much of the time it's HDMI and/or the A/V receiver you use. A friend of mine has a "funky" A/V receiver and he has to incur an audio delay to sync it up. He also did when he had Dish. Also does it OTA and Comcast. And of course with DirecTV. It's just the equipment he has and when he incurs the manual dealy everything is perfect.
Personally I really don't see it much anymore. On DirecTV I see it mostly on Discovery HD. OTA I see it on my CBS sometimes, NBC other times (and not on an HR20). Just depends.
Again, it's just the nature of HD and the various home theater parts we have.
Carl Spock
11-24-07, 07:39 PM
^ Gotta agree there, although it has been worse in the past few months than it was before the introduction of all the new HD stations. I don't know if I can lay the blame on the broadcaster, D* or my HR20. My guess it is a combination of all three, individually and collectively.
I agree with you in that those bitching the loudest about sync issues should have been watching HD in 2001. They would have gone totally ballistic. It was terrible back then. Even with the recent increase in problems, sync in general is better than it used to be. Much better.
To answer your question, Ken, I'd say, "HDTV is still a new technology and they have some bugs to work out. This is one of them."
As for firing people, don't you think everyone from middle management on up at DirecTV is seeing this problem, too? Do you think that you are the only one who is bugged by it? If you were an engineer at the Discovery Network, don't you think you'd be getting DirecTV's feed patched into your studio for monitoring purposes? This is standard practice for every radio and television station in the country. I can't imagine the networks are any different. Right now the only way to view Discovery HD or CNN HD, two networks that have had a lot of problems this way, is off of D*. Don't you think the engineers at these two networks, as well as those at DirecTV's studios, are seeing the same flaws you are seeing? Do you think they like them any more than you do?
Come on, it's a problem that needs fixing. That's what good engineers do, fix things. Firing people isn't the solution. Redoubling efforts to eliminate the problem is.
SFNSXguy
11-24-07, 07:45 PM
You said what I was thinking.
I too am sick and tired of all the excuses. Start firing people.
YEEESSSSS!!!
You got it baby!
Ken,
I say that's the way HD is and always has been at times. Look, I've seen the audio sync issue for *years* long before there were any HD DVRs. Saw it 6 years ago OTA and still see it OTA at times. It's just the nature of the technology and the HR20/21 is no better or worse then any other STB out there with sync issues. To totally blame DirecTV or the HR20 is just plain foolish. I can go to the Dish forums or cable forums and see posts about audio sync issues with those services too.
Much of the time it's HDMI and/or the A/V receiver you use. A friend of mine has a "funky" A/V receiver and he has to incur an audio delay to sync it up. He also did when he had Dish. Also does it OTA and Comcast. And of course with DirecTV. It's just the equipment he has and when he incurs the manual dealy everything is perfect.
Personally I really don't see it much anymore. On DirecTV I see it mostly on Discovery HD. OTA I see it on my CBS sometimes, NBC other times (and not on an HR20). Just depends.
Again, it's just the nature of HD and the various home theater parts we have.
bon,
It seems to have gotten worse not better lately. I used to just look past it...I actually started this thread to see if anyone had a humorous line on the issue...certainly not to start the PoS/Not a PoS thread.
^ Gotta agree there, although it has been worse in the past few months than it was before the introduction of all the new HD stations. I don't know if I can lay the blame on the broadcaster, D* or my HR20. My guess it is a combination of all three, individually and collectively.
I agree with you in that those bitching the loudest about sync issues should have been watching HD in 2001. They would have gone totally ballistic. It was terrible back then. Even with the recent increase in problems, sync in general is better than it used to be. Much better.
To answer your question, Ken, I'd say, "HDTV is still a new technology and they have some bugs to work out. This is one of them."
As for firing people, don't you think everyone from middle management on up at DirecTV is seeing this problem, too? Do you think that you are the only one who is bugged by it? If you were an engineer at the Discovery Network, don't you think you'd be getting DirecTV's feed patched into your studio for monitoring purposes? This is standard practice for every radio and television station in the country. I can't imagine the networks are any different. Right now the only way to view Discovery HD or CNN HD, two networks that have had a lot of problems this way, is off of D*. Don't you think the engineers at these two networks, as well as those at DirecTV's studios, are seeing the same flaws you are seeing? Do you think they like them any more than you do?
Come on, it's a problem that needs fixing. That's what good engineers do, fix things. Firing people isn't the solution. Redoubling efforts to eliminate the problem is.
gg,
I'm not sure I'd classify it as "new" technology at least not with a straight face.
I'm sure you know this, but the firing crud wasn't my suggestion or wish.
rkreitl
11-24-07, 09:01 PM
I've had mine for a year and I don't think it's a POS DVR. I don't use HMDI(or HDMI) and I've never had this problem with my HR20. I also add that my HR20 has never missed a recording. It has always played back those programs it says and did record.
And that exact fact is what should bother everyone. Some units work fine, other's don't. Why would that be?
spartanstew
11-24-07, 09:06 PM
I've had mine for a year and I don't think it's a POS DVR. I don't use HMDI(or HDMI) and I've never had this problem with my HR20. I also add that my HR20 has never missed a recording. It has always played back those programs it says and did record.
I haven't had mine a year, but that's my experience too. Haven't seen any synch (or any other) issues.
I do, occasionally get audio synch issues with my D*Tivo units, but usually if I pause them and then un-pause them it's back in snych.
rkreitl
11-24-07, 09:06 PM
Ken,
I say that's the way HD is and always has been at times. Look, I've seen the audio sync issue for *years* long before there were any HD DVRs. Saw it 6 years ago OTA and still see it OTA at times. It's just the nature of the technology and the HR20/21 is no better or worse then any other STB out there with sync issues. To totally blame DirecTV or the HR20 is just plain foolish. I can go to the Dish forums or cable forums and see posts about audio sync issues with those services too.
Much of the time it's HDMI and/or the A/V receiver you use. A friend of mine has a "funky" A/V receiver and he has to incur an audio delay to sync it up. He also did when he had Dish. Also does it OTA and Comcast. And of course with DirecTV. It's just the equipment he has and when he incurs the manual dealy everything is perfect.
Personally I really don't see it much anymore. On DirecTV I see it mostly on Discovery HD. OTA I see it on my CBS sometimes, NBC other times (and not on an HR20). Just depends.
Again, it's just the nature of HD and the various home theater parts we have.
I can see why there are problems with OTA. You're using an antenna. I can see problems with locals, D* gets it typically OTA. But explain why I get pizellation or audio dropouts on ESPN, ESPN2, SCIFI or other channels that D* get's directly.
You mention problems with Discovery HD. That's not OTA.
Again, folks making excuses for D*.
That's awesome, I'm glad you're one f the lucky ones. I wish I was!!
Maybe you should consider sending your franken-box to DirecTV to have it analyzed so they can reverse engineer the 'Glitch' in your box that's making it work correctly and then provide that fix for all the other boxes.
I also think it's awesome. :)
Mine isn't the box with the 'Glitch'. Maybe "all the other boxes" work fine and some are glitch boxes that act up from time to time.
calidelphia
11-25-07, 01:12 AM
Why would companies who build AVRs put in audio delay features if this was only a DirecTV problem?
Carl Spock
11-25-07, 03:14 AM
^ Wonderful point. :)
I'm not sure I'd classify it as "new" technology at least not with a straight face.
How else would you you describe it? Mpeg 4 broadcasts are less than 90 days old. Stations like CNN HD have been broadcasting for less than 90 days. The D10 satellite has been broadcasting for less than 90 days. If that ain't new, what is?
One reason I'm on DirecTV is because it is the only way I can get national HDTV broadcasts. My cable company can't provide them. My phone company can't provide them. They both can to towns less than 10 miles away but not to me. HDTV is still being rolled out.
HDTV has gone from being a novelty in the late 1990s to being a reality now. Multiple pathways for HDTV are now available to most of you (OTA, cable, satellite). Those have all come on line in the last 5 years. This explosion of HDTV sources and delivery systems will take some time to perfect.
Let's look at a much simpler new technology introduction: compact disc. For the first 2-3 years, every CD player, and I mean absolutely every CD player, skipped. Some badly, some seldomly, but all did. Once that was fixed by 1983 or so, then sound was addressed. I personally didn't hear a good sounding CD player until 1985. At that point CDs had been on the market for 6 years. That's about where we are in the broadcast life of HDTV. 6 or 7 years. It's still new technology.
A buddy of mine who is in this biz told me yesterday that mpeg4 was finally becoming a hardware solution. Before it's been totally a software one. This is the latest news, again less than 90 days old. When mpeg4 is done on cards rather than by computers, it will inevitably work better, cheaper and faster. Similarly, the chips that do this kind of signal processing have been increasing in speed rapidly over the past few years. They still aren't fast enough - witness the low bit rate HDTV is delivered to your television versus HD-DVD or Blu-ray - but they are getting there.
It's not easy watching a child grow up but that's what we are doing right now. The vast majority of HDTV broadcasters and viewers have come on line in the last 5 years. Most everyone, both broadcasters and viewers, are still using the first HDTV equipment they purchased (I'm on my second and I know I'm not alone here. I'm sure some folks are on their 3rd or 4th but people on this board are often early adopters.). Just like a child, it takes 10-15 years for a technology to mature. That's the stage we are in right now. Expect an occasional wetting of the bed.
cartrivision
11-25-07, 03:17 AM
Has absolutely, nothing to do with DirecTV, it's your use of the worlds worst digital interface, HDMI.
When it happens to me (on the one HD set I have hooked up that way) is, beyond rebooting/output cycling the monitor, sat box, or DVD player, is make a note to up my 'BAD HDMI' counter at my IEEE account. BTW, the 'HDMI' groups latest 'fix' is a several hundred $$$ active cable interface for those who have 'intractable' problems.
HDMI will be on the endangered list come first of next year, when at least 2 other digital interfaces will start making their appearance on various consumer electronics devices. Hopefully a year from now, it'll be HISTORY.
I just want to go on record in addition to the others who have already pointed out that the above explanation is incorrect. The out of sync audio is present regardless of whether the audio and video are coming from the analog outputs or the digital ones.
Carl Spock
11-25-07, 03:27 AM
True.
Actually, HDMI could become part of the solution. HDMI 1.3 has an audio/video sync standard. The chain must be HDMI 1.3 from beginning to end so we aren't even close to that now (an HR20 is HDMI 1.1) but with time we'll get there.
Carl Spock
11-25-07, 03:47 AM
gg,
I'm sure you know this, but the firing crud wasn't my suggestion or wish.
My bad. Rereading my paragraph on this issue, I used a generic "you" when I should have been more specific. Yes, I knew this wasn't your desire. My apologies.
^ Wonderful point. :)
How else would you you describe it? Mpeg 4 broadcasts are less than 90 days old. Stations like CNN HD have been broadcasting for less than 90 days. The D10 satellite has been broadcasting for less than 90 days. If that ain't new, what is?
One reason I'm on DirecTV is because it is the only way I can get national HDTV broadcasts. My cable company can't provide them. My phone company can't provide them. They both can to towns less than 10 miles away but not to me. HDTV is still being rolled out.
HDTV has gone from being a novelty in the late 1990s to being a reality now. Multiple pathways for HDTV are now available to most of you (OTA, cable, satellite). Those have all come on line in the last 5 years. This explosion of HDTV sources and delivery systems will take some time to perfect.
Let's look at a much simpler new technology introduction: compact disc. For the first 2-3 years, every CD player, and I mean absolutely every CD player, skipped. Some badly, some seldomly, but all did. Once that was fixed by 1983 or so, then sound was addressed. I personally didn't hear a good sounding CD player until 1985. At that point CDs had been on the market for 6 years. That's about where we are in the broadcast life of HDTV. 6 or 7 years. It's still new technology.
A buddy of mine who is in this biz told me yesterday that mpeg4 was finally becoming a hardware solution. Before it's been totally a software one. This is the latest news, again less than 90 days old. When mpeg4 is done on cards rather than by computers, it will inevitably work better, cheaper and faster. Similarly, the chips that do this kind of signal processing have been increasing in speed rapidly over the past few years. They still aren't fast enough - witness the low bit rate HDTV is delivered to your television versus HD-DVD or Blu-ray - but they are getting there.
It's not easy watching a child grow up but that's what we are doing right now. The vast majority of HDTV broadcasters and viewers have come on line in the last 5 years. Most everyone, both broadcasters and viewers, are still using the first HDTV equipment they purchased (I'm on my second and I know I'm not alone here. I'm sure some folks are on their 3rd or 4th but people on this board are often early adopters.). Just like a child, it takes 10-15 years for a technology to mature. That's the stage we are in right now. Expect an occasional wetting of the bed.
The audio sync issues also exist on the MPEG 2 channels. That's been around even longer.
The HR20 does not send "live" content to the TV. It receives a file, writes it to the HD and then reads/decodes it and sends it on to the TV. The MPEG 4 "standard" has been around for close to ten years now. That's not new technology. The HR20 has been released for well over a year...presumbably they tried playing an MPEG 4 file at least once before they shipped it.
As for MPEG 4 hardware encoders...they've been around for quite some time...here's a link (http://www.plextor.com/English/products/ConvertX2.htm)to one that has been around since 2005 or so.
Let's ease up on the bad analogies with children...they're not appropriate to the discussion of a computer.
bonscott87
11-25-07, 06:49 AM
I can see why there are problems with OTA. You're using an antenna. I can see problems with locals, D* gets it typically OTA. But explain why I get pizellation or audio dropouts on ESPN, ESPN2, SCIFI or other channels that D* get's directly.
You mention problems with Discovery HD. That's not OTA.
Again, folks making excuses for D*.
My point was that you will find this problem on *all* multi channel providers (even FIOS) and with various different channels. Is it a problem with the Discovery HD feed from Discovery Networks or with DirecTV sending it out? That's what the engineers need to figure out.
I lean more toward the channel itself because as I said, this audio sync issue happens to all providers, not just DirecTV and it's nothing new, having been around nearly a decade.
As for your specific channels you mention, I get no pixelization that I notice or dropouts at all on ESPN, ESPN2 or SciFi.
I make no excuses for DirecTV, not at all. At the end of the day it's their problem to fix or get someone else to fix it (Discovery HD for example). My only point is that to blindly blame DirecTV isn't correct.
And to your other point that you can understand why it's seen on locals because DirecTV gets the signal OTA. Not sure why that gets a pass vs. a "cable" channel. Ummm, how do you think they get the signal from the cable networks? Fiber or sat. No matter how they get a signal (OTA, fiber, C-band feed) they just pass on what they get. If it's screwed up when they get it then they can't do much about it other then work with the channel in question. OTA is no more an excuse then any other channel.
bonscott87
11-25-07, 06:49 AM
bon,
It seems to have gotten worse not better lately. I used to just look past it...I actually started this thread to see if anyone had a humorous line on the issue...certainly not to start the PoS/Not a PoS thread.
Understood. Unfortunately I don't think people have taken it that way.
bonscott87
11-25-07, 06:53 AM
The HR20 does not send "live" content to the TV. It receives a file, writes it to the HD and then reads/decodes it and sends it on to the TV. The MPEG 4 "standard" has been around for close to ten years now. That's not new technology. The HR20 has been released for well over a year...presumbably they tried playing an MPEG 4 file at least once before they shipped it.
As I noted above I tend to take the DVR/HR20 out of the equation because I can see this on an H21 (non-DVR) and also on my old standby Hughes E-86 (also non-DVR of course). So the HR20 isn't "introducing" anything that already isn't there in the signal, at least in most cases.
Having said that, the only new MPEG4 channel I've noticed it on is Discovery HD. Of the old MPEG2 channels I used to notice it on Discovery Theater HD a few years ago but not so much lately. I won't discuss OTA or locals but I mentioned above that I see it there sometimes, but not often.
As I noted above I tend to take the DVR/HR20 out of the equation because I can see this on an H21 (non-DVR) and also on my old standby Hughes E-86 (also non-DVR of course). So the HR20 isn't "introducing" anything that already isn't there in the signal, at least in most cases.
Having said that, the only new MPEG4 channel I've noticed it on is Discovery HD. Of the old MPEG2 channels I used to notice it on Discovery Theater HD a few years ago but not so much lately. I won't discuss OTA or locals but I mentioned above that I see it there sometimes, but not often.
I think there are different sync issues. Some that are part of the transmission, some that happened at the time of capture and some caused by the DVR. If the DVR wasn't the cause of some of these issues hitting pause wouldn't fix it.
bonscott87
11-25-07, 07:25 AM
I think there are different sync issues. Some that are part of the transmission, some that happened at the time of capture and some caused by the DVR. If the DVR wasn't the cause of some of these issues hitting pause wouldn't fix it.
Gotcha. Guess I've never seen one caused by the DVR. My bad.
ccr1958
11-25-07, 07:42 AM
The Weather Channel is where i see the most
lip sync problem regularily...have seen it on A&E &
Discovery also but not as much....but i am not too
concerned....i know it will get ironed out soon...
when the broadcast source & DirecTv both get on
the same page hardware & software wise all will
be fine :)
ccr1958
11-25-07, 07:48 AM
you were looking for some humor for the lip sync....
when your guests asks whats going on....just tell them
you don't notice it & say "what the heck are you talking about "
or you have the system set up for eyes & ears ...haha
Carl Spock
11-25-07, 07:54 AM
Ken, thanks for the info on the Plextor box. I'll ask my buddy whose job is in HDTV distribution for our local phone company about it when I go help him brew beer this afternoon. That is, assuming I can get out of the house. A stomach flu has left me on the couch for the last four days. Any stridency in my postings I blame on too many hours sitting on the john.
Yes, sync issues are an endemic problem with HDTV, be it MPEG2 or MPEG4 compression. I made that same point earlier in this thread. Their severity has waxed and wained over time.
You're right for calling me out for anthropomorphising a computer. On the other hand, I will stand by my assertion it takes 10-15 years for a technology to become mature and get all the bugs worked out.
You want a humorous reply? Look at your guest and doing your best ventriloquist imitation, without moving your lips, say, "What problem?"
ccr1958
11-25-07, 08:02 AM
:new_Eyecr !rolling !
"ggergm" You want a humorous reply? Look at your guest and doing your best ventriloquist imitation, without moving your lips, say, "What problem?"
!pusht! <--- ggergm
Doug Brott
11-25-07, 08:11 AM
"Why is the audio and video not synced? Their lips are moving, but no sound?"
We had this happen three times over the holiday from different people watching different shows off the HR20.
Personally, I explain that for whatever reason DirecTV hasn't mastered playing back a video recording yet. I then try a few trick-plays and pause and generally can get it back synced until someone wants to do something crazy like slip/FF/rewind.
I say .. "Well that doesn't look right, does it?" :grin:
We're usually watching a football game and most of the time the commentators aren't on the screen, so nobody notices .. I also try to keep it just before LIVE TV because of this issue and typically do not see it at all.
Stuart Sweet
11-25-07, 09:57 AM
I tell people the new HDs are still a little hinky, but it's getting better. Personally I see audio sync issues in everything, not just television, sometimes when people are talking to me. It's just me. But it's no worse with most DIRECTV channels except the new HDs, which have improved significantly in the last week for me.
You want a humorous reply? Look at your guest and doing your best ventriloquist imitation, without moving your lips, say, "What problem?"
That's a pretty good one. I'm kind of wondering if I get some old martial arts movies if the sync problems will actually line up :).
On the other stuff...the Plextor box is one of many...they've been around for quite some time. Are they live broadcast facility quality? I dunno...but generally if there are cheap consumer versions someone has made an expensive model with better performance.
bonscott87
11-25-07, 10:05 AM
Gotcha. Guess I've never seen one caused by the DVR. My bad.
Actually I should withdraw that statement as I have seen it with a DVR but is the well known bug and that is if you are watching just behind live in the buffer and you catch up to the end of the buffer there are all kinds of issues. Just back up a few seconds and it will go away (or pause a few seconds and then play but stay just a few seconds behind).
I only mention this as some people may not be aware.
And yes, my response to such a query would be "what are you talking about, all looks normal to me". :eek2:
Carl Spock
11-25-07, 10:08 AM
Personally I see audio sync issues in everything, not just television, sometimes when people are talking to me.
:eek2:
Please don't think I'm belittling you but I haven't had that problem since the '70s.
Back then it happened all the time. http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-1/940070/devil.gif
GregLee
11-25-07, 10:29 AM
Then, when people ask, maybe you should just say: "I sync I have a problem."
I tell them that with all the other problems I am having with the HR20s that i barely even notice this.
If it were my equipment causing lip sync issues, it would be consistent. Once set up, I rarely change configuration settings. Most of the time everything is fine, then I will hit something that is out of sync. It doesn't matter whether it is live or recorded. It isn't always on a particular station/channel. And, the trickplay fixes don't seem to fix things, in my case.
Gene
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