Help needed with LOS to HD satellites

[nycdave]

first time posting here. after reading for a few days, this seems like a great source for information and i'm helping someone can offer some advice so i do not have to call on Time Warner cable.

i have been a directtv customer for 5 years and have had terrific service. i hardly ever lose a signal, even in the worst storms. recently, i purchased a new 42" plasma and called directtv to set up the install of the new dish. the technician arrived last wednesday (day before thanksgiving) and said he would need about 30-40 minutes on the roof and then he would come in and set up the receiver. i went outside to check things out after about 20 minutes and the dish was already on the roof. i went back in and the technician came in about 20 minutes later and said he had bad news. because the new HD satellites are lower in the sky, he could not get a signal to any of them (my house is lined on the side that the dish points with trees in a protected wetland area). he said i would need to take 10-15 feet off of them to get a signal (this can't be done). he walked my entire roof and could not get a signal anywhere, so he had alread dismounted the dish before he came to talk to me.

now, i have had no problems with my existing (non-HD) dish for 5 years, but it looks like i will have to go to cable (FIOS is not available to me yet). so i ask the experts on this board - is there any recourse for me here? i hate to give up the directtv since i have had TW cable in the past and directtv is a superior product, but i also do not want to waste the new TV on just a non-HD signal.

thanks in advance for any advice/assistance you can offer.

[carl6]

From NY, most likely the problem is that the dish can't see the 119 satellite. The new HD signals come from 99 and 103, which you can almost certainly see if you already have DirecTV service (which comes from 101).

DirecTV's answer if you can't see 119 is that you can't get the service. This is because (a) a couple of the older HD channels come from 119, and (b) guide data for the new 99/103 satellites also comes from the 119 satellite (in addition to 101), so that if you stay tuned to one of the new HD channels you can still get guide data.

It is possible to work around no seeing 119, but it means you will not get the HD channels that currently come from 119, and it will mean you will have to take specific workaround steps to keep guide data current (which could become a pain in the posterior over time). It also means you will have to get a custom installer to do the work.

It sounds like your installer did a fairly thorough check, so the odds are probably pretty good that his answer was correct. Many will take a quick look and if it is going to be a difficult install won't even try. But you might still want to get a second opinion.

Carl

[veryoldschool]

nycdave :welcome_s DBSTalk.

I too live with trees all around that I can't do anything about.
You do want to have about a twenty degree spread to see the SATs and at your location, the SATs to the west will be lower in the sky from the 101 SAT.
I had to mount my dish on a pole to get a clear LOS to all SATs. Is there any more open place [not on the roof]?
There is another option if you only have a narrow "slot" with using multiple dishes here is a link: http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1079192&postcount=164
Now this isn't a "standard" installation, but those with trees and wanting DirecTV have proved it works.

[nycdave]

thank you for the responses so far.

when you say "custom" installation, how would i go about requesting that? is there an additional charge for it? and the issue with updating the guide data. how much of a pain is it really? if you want to PM me that info, that would be great.


i appreciate all of the help.

[veryoldschool]

thank you for the responses so far.

when you say "custom" installation, how would i go about requesting that? is there an additional charge for it? and the issue with updating the guide data. how much of a pain is it really? if you want to PM me that info, that would be great.

i appreciate all of the help.
The guide issue could be resolved by tuning to a channel off the 101 SAT over night.
As for the install that isn't "standard", you would either need to do it yourself or find a company that will do the work for you. Cost will vary since this would not be the "standard" [free] installation. A pole in the yard, digging a trench, all add to the costs.
If you need to go with the multi dish setup that would be more too.
I would call the installation company and see if they would do the work. If they won't, then start calling around local companies to see who will. While DirecTV has "fixed" prices for standard installs you should be able to find an installer that does "custom" installs.

[raoul5788]

first time posting here. after reading for a few days, this seems like a great source for information and i'm helping someone can offer some advice so i do not have to call on Time Warner cable.

i have been a directtv customer for 5 years and have had terrific service. i hardly ever lose a signal, even in the worst storms. recently, i purchased a new 42" plasma and called directtv to set up the install of the new dish. the technician arrived last wednesday (day before thanksgiving) and said he would need about 30-40 minutes on the roof and then he would come in and set up the receiver. i went outside to check things out after about 20 minutes and the dish was already on the roof. i went back in and the technician came in about 20 minutes later and said he had bad news. because the new HD satellites are lower in the sky, he could not get a signal to any of them (my house is lined on the side that the dish points with trees in a protected wetland area). he said i would need to take 10-15 feet off of them to get a signal (this can't be done). he walked my entire roof and could not get a signal anywhere, so he had alread dismounted the dish before he came to talk to me.

now, i have had no problems with my existing (non-HD) dish for 5 years, but it looks like i will have to go to cable (FIOS is not available to me yet). so i ask the experts on this board - is there any recourse for me here? i hate to give up the directtv since i have had TW cable in the past and directtv is a superior product, but i also do not want to waste the new TV on just a non-HD signal.

thanks in advance for any advice/assistance you can offer.

Your recourse is to get an installer that knows what he is doing. If you had a 3 lnb dish with no issues, there should be no problem putting a 5 lnb dish there. His statement that the new hd satellites are lower is wrong. From NY, one is to the left and slightly higher than 101, and two are to the right and slightly lower. If you can get 101, you can almost certainly get the new satellites.

[veryoldschool]

Your recourse is to get an installer that knows what he is doing. If you had a 3 lnb dish with no issues, there should be no problem putting a 5 lnb dish there. His statement that the new hd satellites are lower is wrong. From NY, one is to the left and slightly higher than 101, and two are to the right and slightly lower. If you can get 101, you can almost certainly get the new satellites.
I think you missed this part: " i have had no problems with my existing (non-HD) dish for 5 years,".
This sounds like a single LNB dish pointed at 101.
While 99 & 103 are very close, 110 & 119 "most likely" were the problems, and the installer wasn't "as bad" as you suggest.

[raoul5788]

I think you missed this part: " i have had no problems with my existing (non-HD) dish for 5 years,".
This sounds like a single LNB dish pointed at 101.
While 99 & 103 are very close, 110 & 119 "most likely" were the problems, and the installer wasn't "as bad" as you suggest.

Maybe. nycdave, what type of dish do you have now?

[nycdave]

Maybe. nycdave, what type of dish do you have now?

it is a single LNB dish.

[raoul5788]

it is a single LNB dish.

My bad then. Sorry for my lack of comprehension skills! You might actually be able to get the 99 and 103 sats, but from what I hear, no one will install a 5 lnb dish if they can't get the 110 and 119 sats, also. Too bad, since they will not be needed for hd eventually.

[techrep]

Do as VOS says and get a private/custom install. You might not get sat 119 and you might not get sat 110.

Next year, sat 119 channels should be moved, or at least mirrored, to sat 103b.

[Kevin McCarthy]

I have a similar problem. My install was to have been last week, never had DTV before (switching from Comcast), but the installer couldn't get a clear shot from my roof without my cutting 5-6 trees, the main problem being 119, which is Alt 21.4, Ax 253.2 from my location (Plaistow, NH). The rear of the yard almost worked, but 1-2 trees interfered with 119. The above thread suggests that 119 isn't going to be very important going forward, but I am uncertain what all of the trade-offs are, and I guess Direct won't install without it. I should probably just take down the trees, but they are big, and near the house and power lines. I wasn't here when he visited (my wife was), and I didn't get to see through his inclinometer. I would like to check it myself, and figure a tripod with a bubble level, a compass, and a couple of 1" x 1" x 20" boards with screw eyes would suffice. Not sure if the tripod head would throw off the compass. Are there any cheap commercial alternatives? Thanks,

Kevin

[veryoldschool]

I used the "crossed stick" method myself taped to a tripod. I worked quite well for me to see where to see between the trees here.

[litzdog911]

I have a similar problem. My install was to have been last week, never had DTV before (switching from Comcast), but the installer couldn't get a clear shot from my roof without my cutting 5-6 trees, the main problem being 119, which is Alt 21.4, Ax 253.2 from my location (Plaistow, NH). The rear of the yard almost worked, but 1-2 trees interfered with 119. The above thread suggests that 119 isn't going to be very important going forward, but I am uncertain what all of the trade-offs are, and I guess Direct won't install without it. I should probably just take down the trees, but they are big, and near the house and power lines. I wasn't here when he visited (my wife was), and I didn't get to see through his inclinometer. I would like to check it myself, and figure a tripod with a bubble level, a compass, and a couple of 1" x 1" x 20" boards with screw eyes would suffice. Not sure if the tripod head would throw off the compass. Are there any cheap commercial alternatives? Thanks,

Kevin


You can use the moon's position in the sky on the correct day/time each month. See the link in my signature below.

[Mertzen]

Where in NY are you located. Did he bring the dish all the way to the top of the roofline. If you are in the NY metro area feel free to PM me. It was probably one of our guys.
There are always some out of the ordinary things that can get you the 119.

[paulman182]

I don't know if this affects the OP, but some locals are spotbeamed from 119.