New Install suddenly getting "Searching for Signal"

[jaybee2]

:( Hi,

After a week of no problems, I've begun to see some issues with the system "searching for signal" on my HD channels.

I looked at the signal strengths after the install but didn't know what I was looking at (still mostly don't) but since I was getting all of my channels without any problems, I didn't give it much thought.

From what I've found out by digging around here and on the internet in general leads me to believe that I have low signal strengths on the satellites used for HD.

I logged the signal strength numbers last night and this morning on a spreadsheet that I will link to after I make 4 more posts. :sure:

[jaybee2]

I talked to a DirecTV representative today and set up an appointment for this Saturday.

[jaybee2]

They could have come earlier but I wouldn't have been here. I didn't want to put it all on my wife.

[jaybee2]

I checked all the connections and took a look at the dish to see what kind of LNB it was as I've read around here somewhere that it might matter.

[jaybee2]

I also tried various thing suggested by the "on hold" recording at D* all to no avail.

[jaybee2]

Now that I've posted 5 times, here's the link to the Original Signal Strength Numbers (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pz47dXgy2DJ7C0W2nNBggSg) (Edited 12/1/07 adding a third sheet with Post-Service call numbers)
Sorry for all the clutter but couldn't think of another way to get 5 posts in.

I'm not crazy to think these numbers on 103 (a) and 103 (b) are low, right? How high should I expect them to be? I realize it depends on the specifics of how my dish is situated, but how low is "acceptable"? I really don't want to have to dread every time it appears we're going to have some weather.

When the tech comes out, how should I approach it or should I just lay back and let him do his thing?

Thanks for any insight.

[dvisthe]

did you try to tune to channel 498 to see if your BBC are operating ok?
just a thought

[dvisthe]

looking at your speadsheet, they look pretty low all mine are in the 90s on 103b(hd satillite)

[jaybee2]

did you try to tune to channel 498 to see if your BBC are operating ok?
just a thought

I checked this and it said: "103 B-Band Odd (13V). BBC confirmed working."

[bearmur]

If you have clear line of sight your dish is not set up right.

[jaybee2]

If you have clear line of sight your dish is not set up right.

There was an initial debate at the start of the install as to whether or not I had a workable situation.
I'm not sure if I have an absolute clear line of sight as I ultimately had to cut down a couple of trees to gain exposure. As much as I wanted service from DirecTV and not the cable alternative, I asked the installer not to bother with the process if he thought the resulting signal would be right on the threshold of working/not working, as I didn't want to "battle the elements".

Hopefully things can be dialed in to make the signals more robust.

[K4SMX]

There is no question whatever that your dish is not properly aligned. You have a 30 day installation warranty. Although DirecTV's usual CSR response is that if you're receiving all the channels you're supposed to receive, you have no problem, these numbers are particularly "on the edge," and they are usually more willing to send someone back out to correct initial mis-alignment during the install warranty period. Don't be reluctant to overstate the reception problems, because the alignment you have is totally unacceptable.

With a good alignment, you should be getting mid-80's to mostly 90's on all 16 transponders from the 103(b) satellite and at least some 100's on the 119. If you've got that, all the other satellite signal strengths will be fine as well. There are no valid excuses from installers why this is not achievable, unless you've got multiple line-of-sight issues.

[scottlacy]

I had a similar problem. The repair guy simply unplugged the unit, then hit "02468" when the blue welcome screen appeared, thereby forcing a software update, and the "searching for signal" problem went away. That worked on a HR20-100. Not sure what receiver you're using.

[Vampyre720]

There is no question whatever that your dish is not properly aligned. You have a 30 day installation warranty. Although DirecTV's usual CSR response is that if you're receiving all the channels you're supposed to receive, you have no problem, these numbers are particularly "on the edge," and they are usually more willing to send someone back out to correct initial mis-alignment during the install warranty period. Don't be reluctant to overstate the reception problems, because the alignment you have is totally unacceptable.

With a good alignment, you should be getting mid-80's to mostly 90's on all 16 transponders from the 103(b) satellite and at least some 100's on the 119. If you've got that, all the other satellite signal strengths will be fine as well. There are no valid excuses from installers why this is not achievable, unless you've got multiple line-of-sight issues.

You actually have a 90 Day Warranty on your install. Which is also the same as when a Service Call is setup it renews that 90 day warranty.

I'm not at home right now, but I recall having high 80's on most of the Transponders.

- V

[K4SMX]

You actually have a 90 Day Warranty on your install.....
Well that's good news, I'm not sure where I got 30, but if it's 90, great.

[techrep]

That dish needs to be tweaked. If you are a DIY'r, adjust tilt to peak 119 and then fine tune AZ/EL to 103b.

[jaybee2]

That dish needs to be tweaked. If you are a DIY'r, adjust tilt to peak 119 and then fine tune AZ/EL to 103b.

I may get to that point before the appointment on Saturday as I've noticed that the issue seems to be "progressing" (regressing?) to include some SD channels. I just figured since I'm new to the game and am still inside my 90 day window, I'd let them fix it.

As I said, I'm completely new to all of this and want to know more and since there's no shortage of information on this site, I just need to start digging. However, is there information available as to which channels are on which satellites and which transponders are utilized for a particular viewing area? A DirecTV telephone rep mentioned that for my area (Atlanta), on Satellite 103 (b) only transponders are used, etc. I probably heard it wrong, but does anyone have any insight on this type of thing and does it matter and should I care?

Thanks,

Jay

[shelland]

When I had my 5-LNB installed, the channels were all working fine when the installer left. I left and picked up my son from school, and when I got back we were getting the 'searching for satellite' signal on probably 90% of the channels (SD, HD, local - didn't seem to matter). The tech that came out commented that the dish was outright installed wrong.

It's been a few months, but I seem to remember him saying that the first thing they tell them about installing the new dish is to point the mast straight up. I don't believe the original installer did. Once the 2nd tech "re-installed" the dish, all has worked flawlessly. (that was in August I believe)

Not that this is necessarily your issue, but that's my experience...

[jaybee2]

When I had my 5-LNB installed, the channels were all working fine when the installer left. I left and picked up my son from school, and when I got back we were getting the 'searching for satellite' signal on probably 90% of the channels (SD, HD, local - didn't seem to matter). The tech that came out commented that the dish was outright installed wrong.

It's been a few months, but I seem to remember him saying that the first thing they tell them about installing the new dish is to point the mast straight up. I don't believe the original installer did. Once the 2nd tech "re-installed" the dish, all has worked flawlessly. (that was in August I believe)

Not that this is necessarily your issue, but that's my experience...


I'm hoping for a different installer this time, not that the last one was bad or anything but a fresh perspective couldn't hurt.

[techrep]

I may get to that point before the appointment on Saturday as I've noticed that the issue seems to be "progressing" (regressing?) to include some SD channels. I just figured since I'm new to the game and am still inside my 90 day window, I'd let them fix it.

As I said, I'm completely new to all of this and want to know more and since there's no shortage of information on this site, I just need to start digging. However, is there information available as to which channels are on which satellites and which transponders are utilized for a particular viewing area? A DirecTV telephone rep mentioned that for my area (Atlanta), on Satellite 103 (b) only transponders are used, etc. I probably heard it wrong, but does anyone have any insight on this type of thing and does it matter and should I care?

Thanks,

Jay

You will find some info below.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=109061

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=65321

[Technician]

Its either trees or the mast is uneven. That would be my guess.

[jaybee2]

Its either trees or the mast is uneven. That would be my guess.

I trimmed some extra limbs on the periphery and have cleared as many trees as I'm able without getting into discussions with the neighbors about their trees. :nono2:

It's mounted on a pole that the installer put in and I tried to check to see if there was a level built in to the mast, but I didn't see one. I haven't had much daylight to go out and check to see if it's level. I guess I'll find out on Saturday.

Thanks!

[jaybee2]

You will find some info below.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=109061

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=65321

Wow, thank you very much!

[fluffybear]

:( Hi,

After a week of no problems, I've begun to see some issues with the system "searching for signal" on my HD channels.

I looked at the signal strengths after the install but didn't know what I was looking at (still mostly don't) but since I was getting all of my channels without any problems, I didn't give it much thought.

From what I've found out by digging around here and on the internet in general leads me to believe that I have low signal strengths on the satellites used for HD.

I logged the signal strength numbers last night and this morning on a spreadsheet that I will link to after I make 4 more posts. :sure:

I had pretty much the same thing happen to me. In my case, I was losing the signal more intermittently but as far as I am concerned a loss is a loss.

The short version is many companies hire guys who are lazy, do not keep up to date with the latest happenings or really care about their job or your home.
I have had 3 different installers over the last 30 days at my house and I am still not sure it's fixed and won't until the next time it rains.

I suspect your installer did not fine tune the KA band (2 of the last 3 which came to my place had no idea what KA was. 1 even went as far as to argue with me that all of DirecTV's offerings come from 119) and more than likely forgot to tighten down the bolts. The rain and little bit of wind we had over the weekend was enough to knock the improperly aligned dish further out of whack.

Good Luck on Saturday! BTW, I would suggest getting the first appointment you can even if the wife does have to handle it. Just write out a list of things for the wife to keep an eye on and tell the guy. I say this as many installers will not go on your roof if it's raining.

Chances are good that you will be seeing a different installer and more than likely he will not even be with the same company. In my case it's been 3 different installers from 3 different companies.

Tree's can be your worst enemy. Get yourself a laser pointer or a flashlight and place it on the LNB arm and see if you are hitting anything. If not, I would suspect the dish is not aligned properly or the dish is not perfectly level.

[jaybee2]

snip...Tree's can be your worst enemy. Get yourself a laser pointer or a flashlight and place it on the LNB arm and see if you are hitting anything. If not, I would suspect the dish is not aligned properly or the dish is not perfectly level.

How exactly do I position the laser pointer to determine line of sight? When you say "put it on the arm" do you mean on the side or perhaps underneath, or should I put it at the end of the arm as though it were a continuation of the arm?

[K4SMX]

Please keep in mind that the arm is actually pointing at an EL angle ~25 degrees below the actual elevation angle of the satellite signal, because of the offset from the center of the dish of the LNB.

You can get a pretty good idea of LOS issues by going to the dishpointer.com (http://www.dishpointer.com) website, entering your exact address, and scrolling down to the bottom of the dish selection list and choosing the DirecTV 5 LNB dish. Then you can zoom in.

But I doubt if you have a tree problem in Atlanta. Your elevation angle is just over 45 degrees. Installers are pretty good about walking away from those type LOS problems at the drop of a hat.

[Quija666]

7 year tech in the midwest never a problem working in the rain or the winter sorry for your bad experience also a good rule of thumb instead of laser look at trees if cut at ground would it fall and hit the dish

[Quija666]

if you need to know that bad get a inclometer tells you everything you need or just look at your trees and if you cut them off at the ground would it interfer or hit the dish and iam sorry for the bad times youve had with techs but ive spent 7 cold midwest winters installing rob peter to pay paul get the job done

[Quija666]

if you need to know that bad get a inclometer tells you everyting you need or you could just take a look at your trees and if you cut them off at the ground would they hit the dish also sorry about the bad time but 6 cold midwest winters and have never stoped;) insatlling

[jaybee2]

ISSUE RESOLVED!

Thanks to all for your feedback and insight. A DirecTV technician came out today and tweaked the dish and what were once average transponder readings of 50s and 60s on satellite 103(b), are now in the 80s and 90s. Signal strength has improved across the board!

If you're interested, here's an updated spreadsheet to include post-service signal strength numbers on page 3 (12/1/07).

Updated Signal Strength Numbers (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pz47dXgy2DJ7gyE70oOXROw)

[techrep]

Your 12/1/07 numbers look much better.

K4SMX was right on the money when he committed to this statement: "There is no question whatever that your dish is not properly aligned."