HDTV with modulators

[Dmode]

I have searched on this and other forums but never came up with a solid answer, so here is my challenge:

I recently upgraded to HD and have the H20 dvr for my HDTV screen, the rest of the house has crt screens and the older rca receivers and an SD dvr (R15??). I would like to put SD dvr in the storeroom with all my computer equipment and have every TV be able to watch regular SD plus anything from the SD dvr. I have RG6 thru out my house and can easily get to most of the drops since I have a dropped ceiling in my basement. My question is...

How do I get the modulated SD DVR to all TV's without the frequency overlapping that of the HD signal? I have a couple of Sony multiroom distribution modulators (MRD_D1) that I would use for this. Can it be done or do I have to run 2 cables for each drop and if I had to run 2 cables how would connect them to the tv if my tv only has one coax input ?

I read somewhere that the BBC modules would need to be first in the signal before the diplex occured..is this true?

Thanks in advance
Neville

[Dmode]

Forgot to mention that I currently have a Zinwell WB68 installed and just amount to swap that out with a Zinwell WB616, probably tomorrow.

[jdspencer]

You can't diplex modulated frequencies on the same cable that has MPEG4 frequencies. Well, you can, but they will interference with each other. :) Your best bet is to run separate cable for your modulated system.

[eakes]

I am not familiar with your Sony modulator, but I assume it will modulate a composite video/audio TV info to some channel in the VHF or UHF band. If that is true then there will be no problem using diplexers on the lines to the old RCA satellite receivers, thus all the rooms except the HR20 location can be fed the modulated signal using diplexers (you will need a diplexer for each one of the feeds) The HR20 location will need two feeds from the new multiswitch for proper operation, so you could route an additional coax to that location for the modulated signal when the second feed for the HR20 is added.

You will also need diplexers at the RCA receiver locations to separate the modulated channel from the satellite signal. What will be required to connect to the TV set will depend on how the output of the RCA box is connected to the TV. If you are using A/V connections from the RCA box to the TV, then it will only be necessary to connect the TV signal side of the diplexer to the antenna input of the TV.

[Dmode]

Jdspencer and Eakes, thanks for your replies, but you see each one of you have given me different answers and both I have read here and on other forums.


what to do ...... ?

[eakes]

The only useful signals on the feeds to the RCA receivers are those from the 101 satellite. Those receivers will not 'see' anything from the other satellites, therefore presence of the modulated signal will not cause a problem with the RCA receivers. The remaining possible artifacts is any 'extra' signals that may interfere with the modulated signal. Any effect would likely be small, first the diplexer will attenuate any TV band frequencies that may exist in the satellite signal, second any remaining 'extra' signal would appear as a slight increase in noise in the modulated signal and likely not be noticed.

Since you have the modulator and receivers already, obtain a couple of diplexers (if you don't have them already), then setup the diplexers and modulated signal to one of the RCA receivers and see what you get.

[Dmode]

Are there any makes/models I should look for and what frequencies ? I see there are some that only go to 1MGhz and others all the way to 2.4.

Right now i still have some drops going to the old sat. dish and I will be pulling those out today and all drops will go to the new dish (some already are for HD).

I dont understand why there are 4 leads from the dish ? Which lead do I add the modulated signal to before it goes into my WB616 ?

still new to all this and appreciate all your comments...Neville

edit:
1. so modulated signals should not go anywhere near H20/,peg 4
2. what happens when I replace my old RCA receivers with regular HD receivers ? I'll be doing that every few months since D* does not want to replace them for free :(
3. HD receivers can downconvert HD signals to regluar 480 so that they can play on non HD screens right ? Long term goal is to replace all screens with HD screens/

[texasbrit]

Easiest way to do this, assuming you have eight "legacy" tuners (receiver is one tuner, DVR is two tuners) or less.
Get hold of a Terk BMS58 or other 5x8 multiswitch. Connect four cables from the WB68/616 to the four inputs of the Terk. Connect your modulated signal to the antenna input of the Terk. Then connect all your "legacy" receivers to the Terk multiswitch, with a diplexer at each receiver to split off the "OTA" (modulated) signal from the satellite signal.

Connect any "new" receivers or DVRs to the remaining outputs of the WB68/616. These will not have access to the modulated signal.

If you need the modulated signal to be available to any of the rooms connected directly to the WB616, you have a few options. First, run separate cables. Second, wait for availability of the new SWM8 (Single Wire Multiswitch). There are different ways you could configure your system to use this but the simplest configuration would be to connect the SWM8 to four of the outputs from the WB616. You can then connect your modulated signal to the off-air input on the SWM8, and the output from the SWM8 will then be a single cable carrying the sat and modulated signals. You can split the cable to connect to the cables going to the "new" receivers, and then put diplexers at the receivers as with the Terk. The SWM8 is NOT yet generally available but I expect you will be able to get hold of it some time in the first few months of 2008. (The SWM8 will only work with "new" receivers/DVRs)
The third way to do this is to take the connection from the WB616 going to a "new" receiver where you need the modulated signal, and use the b-band relocation approach described in this thread http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=62299 This works for most people, with the caveats mentioned in the thread.

In each case you will of course need to split the signal from the modulator to drive the number of "OTA" connections you need.

[eakes]

The four lines from the new dish go directly to the inputs of the 8 or 16 port multiswitch. The diplexers go in the lines from an output of the multiswitch going to an RCA receiver, They do not go between the dish and multiswitch. When you replace an older receiver with a new HD model, either the diplexer hookup to that location must go or you can try locating the diplexer after the BBC as mentioned above.

When the SWM devices are readily available they will allow simple splitting of the coax feeds (similiar to cable TV) and eliminate a number of hoops that satellite users now go through.

[Dmode]

It really appears that a modulator cannot really be in the picture If I go all out for HD except to have it after the BBC modules, right ? Can you buy just the BBC modules ?

Will the WB68 and WB616 with flexports allow me to connect my modulator or are those reserved only for older satellites ?

Do I need a 4 +1 multiswitch ? Reason I ask is that I have a Steren Sky switcher 201-737 lying around with 2 inputs (17V + 13V) and 1 uhv/vhf (54-806Mhz). It says its D* compatible with 40-2300mhz range.

[eakes]

To feed just the older RCA receivers it may be possible to use your existing 4x1 multiswitch. Connect its two inputs to two of the outputs of the Zinwell multiswitch, then connect the RCA receivers to the outputs of the 4x1. You can then use the antenna input of the 4x1 for your modulator. You would need diplexers at each receiver location to separate the modulated signal from the satellite signal.

You only need BBCs on feeds that are connected to HD receivers - they serve no purpose if placed in the lines to the RCA receivers.

No. You do not want to insert the modulated signal ahead of the Zinwell multiswitch. It must come after that multiswitch and only on the lines going to the older receivers.

[carl6]

Dmode,

eakes and texasbrit have given you good info.

The ONLY multiwitches you can use are the Zinwell WB68 or the Zinwell WB616. Your old one won't do you any good. Toss your old one (or sell it if you can). It's obsolete as far as the new HD systems are concerned.

There is NO ota/modulator input on the new multiswitches, because OTA and/or modulated signals conflict with some of the new satellite signals. There is simply no way to feed your modulated signal into the multiswitch.

As was previously noted, the only way you can mix your modulated signal is to use diplexers after the output of the multiswitch, and then another diplexer at the receiver. You can do that for all of your SD receivers and SD DVRs.

So here is what you will end up with...

Four coax lines from the dish to the inputs of the multiswitch.

From the output of the multiswitch...
Output 1 -> diplexer -> coax to receiver -> diplexer -> SD receiver
modulator--^ |--------> TV

Output 2 -> diplexer -> coax to receiver -> diplexer -> SD receiver
modulator--^ |-------> TV


etcetera for all feeds to SD equipment.

For feeds to HD equipment, put the BBC module between the multiswitch output and the first diplexer, and it should work. For example...

Output 1 -> BBC -> diplexer -> coax to receiver -> diplexer -> SD receiver
modulator--^ |--------> TV



Carl

[David Carmichael]

I only have three DirecTV receivers all in the same room...
and currently only one HD..

Here was my solution till I can get some other hardware.... such as the new to market CAT5 HD (Yes even HDMI if using two CAT5's side by side) signal senders.... they now even make routers and punch down panels for these video/audio signals!
First off was the remote control of the devices.. used IR repeater "CONES" which can be found from many sources.
Second was the picture.. I have all three DVR's connected to UHF modulators such as the "Ce Labs 1001st Stereo Agile Rf Modulator"...
While this means that the HD Video signal is downgraded and side squeezed... the two other wide screen sets in the house allow me stretch the image back to the correct aspect.
But in shot here is my set up in ASCII:
Ant => splitter => DirecTV => Modulator =>
=>Off Air ================>
=> =>Combiner ====>whole house ==<local Off Air HD> + Internal UHF Channels-----

My biggest trouble is local radio station cross talk/interference and finding UHF channels that were open spacing with 2 channel gap...

I now have a UHF channel on every "other" UHF channel between 15 => 66 due to combined local analog & digital channels and internal created channels and if somebody tells you that digital signals should not interfere with analog signals tell them they are all wet~~
3 - DirecTV DVR's UHF-17 20 66
2 - DVDR's UHF-50 56
1 - SD DVD Player - 22
1 - Computer displaying a custom ""Weather"" channel pulling info from NOAA.GOV and local TV stations live and radars web sites....

--David

[Dmode]

Thank you everybody for your valuable information. I will order diplexers and proceed with your input.

Much appreciated
Neville

[carl6]

I now have a UHF channel on every "other" UHF channel between 15 => 66 due to combined local analog & digital channels and internal created channels and if somebody tells you that digital signals should not interfere with analog signals tell them they are all wet~~


Get some Channel Plus low pass filters to cut out the digital cable channels. You'll loose analog cable above channel 30, but it cleans up all the digital signal. I've got four the the CE1001ST's and 7 dual channel UHF modulators, giving me 18 "in house" channels mixed with cable 2-30. Every DirecTV box in the house is modulated and mixed in.

Carl

[texasbrit]

My biggest trouble is local radio station cross talk/interference and finding UHF channels that were open spacing with 2 channel gap...

I now have a UHF channel on every "other" UHF channel between 15 => 66 due to combined local analog & digital channels and internal created channels and if somebody tells you that digital signals should not interfere with analog signals tell them they are all wet~~
3 - DirecTV DVR's UHF-17 20 66
2 - DVDR's UHF-50 56
1 - SD DVD Player - 22
1 - Computer displaying a custom ""Weather"" channel pulling info from NOAA.GOV and local TV stations live and radars web sites....

--David

I have a similar arrangement using two Channel Plus UHF video distribution modulators giving me four UHF channels to carry modulated signals from DVRs. Here in DFW it is also very difficult to find a two-channel gap, with so many OTA stations, including those from out-of-town that don't give a strong enough signal to receive a picture but which are just strong enough to create interference with a modulated channel. And you are right about digital and analog, if they use the same frequency then of course they interfere with each other.
The Channel Plus devices are useful because they provide for remote IR control of the DVRs also..

[David Carmichael]

Get some Channel Plus low pass filters to cut out the digital cable channels. You'll loose analog cable above channel 30, but it cleans up all the digital signal. I've got four the the CE1001ST's and 7 dual channel UHF modulators, giving me 18 "in house" channels mixed with cable 2-30. Every DirecTV box in the house is modulated and mixed in.

Carl

I have pass filter which I was using before the local stations started broadcasting 'HD' in the UHF range. So the trouble is.. many of my local HD station's are in the UHF above 30 UHF and the 'Cable' tuners due not tune in the HD stations if set for 'Cable' and not 'Off Air'