Audio Sync

[orion0222]

I've seen several threads about people having audio sync problems with the audio and video being off, but have never really seen anyone mention why it seems like DirecTV has such a big problem with this. I have audio sync issues from time to time on various channels, but it is off and on. Sometimes the audio is off and other times not. Does anyone have an explaination why there seems to be such a problem with this?

Thanks

[Matt9876]

It's a buffering issue with audio-video tracks and the more I study the subject I've learned that its pretty universal to all compressed HD.

Yes they can adjust the sync timing but at the buffer level decode/encode process the time can slip between audio/video and if it does slip it's normally forward on the sound track."Words will proceed the lips"

It may take a new mpeg codec to truly cure the problem.

[Davenlr]

Its not just limited to the codec. I encode video clips with several software packages and clips, and at various times have to reencode clips with different audio offsets to get sync. 50miliseconds is enough to be noticablely annoying. Directv doesn't have the good fortune to be able to reencode, so unless they have someone riding the controls on every channel, they are subject to this phenom. Its also possible the stations programming could be at fault.

[tonyd79]

I have seen a lot of reports but haven't seen out of synch yet on any DirecTV channel. (Knock on wood.) I've seen it a lot on computer video.

[davemayo]

I have seen a lot of reports but haven't seen out of synch yet on any DirecTV channel. (Knock on wood.) I've seen it a lot on computer video.

The only thing I've seen it on is Mythbusters. Sometimes it is way, way off. Sometimes it is barely noticeable. But it is always there.

[Redlinetire]

It's NOT just a DirecTV problem. For instance Tivo users are starting to complain about the same thing:
Audio out of sync problems on TivoHD
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=364578

As many other postings in this forum have pointed out, its a very complicated subject, involving all the layers of transmission a signal takes from the camera to your home....

[SatNoob]

I had this problem with my Tivo's also. However, my HD-DVR HR20 is worse sync wise. It's extremely annoying and I'm growing tired of the sync problems, there has to be some way to fix it. It's like watching a Bruce Lee or Jackie Chan film.

[GordonT]

I have read through quite a few (but not all) of the threads on this issue, but one thing has eluded me:

Are the audio sync problems people are talking about mostly between the video on their TV and the audio on their home theatre speakers, or are they actually saying that they have sync issues between the video on their TV's and the audio on their TV speakers?

The reason I am asking is that I have definitely seen the former problem, which I finally addressed by upgrading my old A/V receiver to one that had an audio delay feature. But I do not recall ever experiencing the latter problem. Am I just lucky?

[Carl Spock]

Great question. In my case it is the former but I have seen the later, too. It was back in earlier days of HDTV broadcasting, 2001-2002. I rarely use my TV speakers anymore.

[HersheyBud]

I've seen the problem using my TV speakers only. My HR-700 is going HDMI direct to the Sony A2020 60" TV. It's certainly annoying at times but you get used to it. It's so close it took me weeks to finally figure the audio IS ahead of the video..

[orion0222]

Thanks for the reponses. The issue is intermittent on some channels (
Smithsonian, TBS and a few others) so it's tolerable, but I never had this issue with Cable. I don't ever plan on going back as I'm extremely happy with DirecTV other than this issue. The sync problem happens when using both the TV speakers and home theater speakers.

[luckydob]

I don't get it. Why the free pass. You pay extra for HD programming. If it doesn't work, you should be upset. All I hear is that the HR20 is great, except...the audio sync problem, but I love my HR20 and D*...I don't get it. Accepting this will not get the issue resolved with D*.

[SatNoob]

Some people are sheep I guess.

[Impala1ss]

I've seen the problem using my TV speakers only. My HR-700 is going HDMI direct to the Sony A2020 60" TV. It's certainly annoying at times but you get used to it. It's so close it took me weeks to finally figure the audio IS ahead of the video..

During the Presidential debates the other night, the video was way AHEAD of the audio. I have optical cable between my AV receiver and HR20-700. I can adjust the delay using my Yamaha AV receiver but only one way - to further delay the audio. No help in my case.

[Janice805]

I also am experiencing the LIP SYNC problem only since the last software update. Between THAT and the audio dropouts and audio stuttering, it's really getting "more than annoying". Sometimes I can't even watch certain programs at all. And NO, it's not my home threatre system because I don't have one. And YES, I am connected via HDMI on 3 different TVs and all experience the same problem. So, it seems to be a DIRECT TV issue since their last update.

Someone needs to fix something. I've been with DTV for 10 years and think I've been patient with all their different issues, but geez .... I'm paying over $130 x month (along with all the $$$ for receivers, etc.) for what -- they are still EXPERIMENTING and trying to get their receivers/systems right ????

[wavemaster]

Any word on this from DirectTV?

I've been a fan for years, but when a neighbor comes over and laughs at the DirectTV HD (I see the synching problems on most of the new HD channels if watch them long enough) and starts in with the Millie Vanillie jokes, it's pretty pathetic.

Is this only happening on the DVR's?

You would think that with the "all digital" HD there would be syncing markers in the stream to keep them together. So if it did go out of sync it could self correct.

[Carl Spock]

You would think there would be sync markers in the signal. You would be wrong. In fact, there is nothing in the HDTV standard to keep audio and video in sync.

It happens with regular tuners, too. I've seen it on OTA broadcasts even.

As for your neighbors making fun of your set-up, wavemaster, you are not your television. I would hope you are strong enough to let your television system have a problem without it affecting your self worth.

[wavemaster]

You would think there would be sync markers in the signal. You would be wrong. In fact, there is nothing in the HDTV standard to keep audio and video in sync.

It happens with regular tuners, too. I've seen it on OTA broadcasts even.

As for your neighbors making fun of your set-up, wavemaster, you are not your television. I would hope you are strong enough to let your television system have a problem without it affecting your self worth.

LOL - I'm solid.

I am the local DirectTV cheerleader and for whatever reason, it's my setup that others measure theirs by. Due to the projector and NFLST, I get a bunch of lurkers on the weekends.

What's funny about it is the guy has comcast and in this town, it's about as pathetic as it gets.

But more importantly, what is being done about it? This is it? audio sucks on HD? I can say I have never seen it on OTA, and I can't say I have ever seen it on cable (we have cable and DirectTV) unless it was the actual broadcast which can be seen by switching between the two.

So far I have seen it at some point on all of the new HD channels - A LOT. I have had DirectTV HD for years now and it has never been noticeable like it is now on the new channels. So I don't think this is just an "HD thing".

[ddrumman2004]

It happens with regular tuners, too. I've seen it on OTA broadcasts even.

.

I have seen sync issues with the standard Hughes receivers we have in the past.

[Carl Spock]

I don't get it. Why the free pass. You pay extra for HD programming. If it doesn't work, you should be upset. All I hear is that the HR20 is great, except...the audio sync problem, but I love my HR20 and D*...I don't get it. Accepting this will not get the issue resolved with D*.
I refuse to be upset over non-functioning technology. It just aint worth it. If you want to call DirecTV, send emails and raise a ruckus, go right ahead. Lincoln freed you, too.

Not to be pious over this, but 6½ years ago I had a cancer that is 99% fatal which left me paralyzed from the waist down. I had to learn to walk again and am now cancer free. Ever since then, problems like this aren't worth the stress. For other people, it would be something wrong with their kids or their work that would make them upset, not sync issues on TV. We all have our buttons. Mine are simply not the same as yours.

Do you want to know what will get the sync fixed? It's when DirecTV's VP of Marketing gets an earful from his neighbors, who have all switched to D* because he sold them on it, and comes into work, demanding change. And I suspect that already happened weeks ago. I simply can't imagine DirecTV isn't working on solutions right now My being upset will make no difference.

[1sweetchevy]

I've seen the problem using my TV speakers only. My HR-700 is going HDMI direct to the Sony A2020 60" TV. It's certainly annoying at times but you get used to it. It's so close it took me weeks to finally figure the audio IS ahead of the video..

1+

[JeffBowser]

Now there's a man with the right priorities.

Lipsync is an irritation, it bugs the tar out of me, as I depend on lip-reading and closed captioning to fill the gaps my poor hearing misses. However, in the grand scheme of things, it's not worth getting majorly upset about.

I refuse to be upset over non-functioning technology. It just aint worth it. If you want to call DirecTV, send emails and raise a ruckus, go right ahead. Lincoln freed you, too.

Not to be pious over this, but 6½ years ago I had a cancer that is 99% fatal which left me paralyzed from the waist down. I had to learn to walk again and am now cancer free. Ever since then, problems like this aren't worth the stress. For other people, it would be something wrong with their kids or their work that would make them upset, not sync issues on TV. We all have our buttons. Mine are simply not the same as yours.

Do you want to know what will get the sync fixed? It's when DirecTV's VP of Marketing gets an earful from his neighbors, who have all switched to D* because he sold them on it, and comes into work, demanding change. And I suspect that already happened weeks ago. I simply can't imagine DirecTV isn't working on solutions right now My being upset will make no difference.

[lifelong]

Now there's a man with the right priorities.

Lipsync is an irritation, it bugs the tar out of me, as I depend on lip-reading and closed captioning to fill the gaps my poor hearing misses. However, in the grand scheme of things, it's not worth getting majorly upset about.

well in "the grand scheme of things," you can also look at this entire forum as a pointless waste of time. after all, it's just tv. we pay money for the technology to function, so we want it to function properly, regardless of whose fault it exactly is, whether it be the content providers or directv's. if someone is paying for non-functioning technology are you suggesting that they are just needlessly whining if they do not believe it is functioning properly?

[Carl Spock]

Wait a minute. Neither Jeff nor I are saying don't post here. Please do. Nobody is saying don't get upset. Get upset if you want to. Yell and scream and and spend as much time as you want to complaining to D* in as many ways as you can. Go right ahead.

Just don't expect US to do the same.

- Gregg

[lifelong]

Wait a minute. Neither Jeff nor I are saying don't post here. Please do. Nobody is saying don't get upset. Get upset if you want to. Yell and scream and and spend as much time as you want to complaining to D* in as many ways as you can. Go right ahead.

Just don't expect US to do the same.

I don't recall any of the posters in this thread requesting that you complain about this.

[JeffBowser]

Sheesh, dude, relax.

well in "the grand scheme of things," you can also look at this entire forum as a pointless waste of time. after all, it's just tv. we pay money for the technology to function, so we want it to function properly, regardless of whose fault it exactly is, whether it be the content providers or directv's. if someone is paying for non-functioning technology are you suggesting that they are just needlessly whining if they do not believe it is functioning properly?

[Carl Spock]

I don't recall any of the posters in this thread requesting that you complain about this.
My first post was a response to the following one. The word used was "upset" and not "complain" but it directly adressed this point, as have mine.
I don't get it. Why the free pass. You pay extra for HD programming. If it doesn't work, you should be upset. All I hear is that the HR20 is great, except...the audio sync problem, but I love my HR20 and D*...I don't get it. Accepting this will not get the issue resolved with D*.

[cartrivision]

Its not just limited to the codec. I encode video clips with several software packages and clips, and at various times have to reencode clips with different audio offsets to get sync. 50miliseconds is enough to be noticablely annoying. Directv doesn't have the good fortune to be able to reencode, so unless they have someone riding the controls on every channel, they are subject to this phenom. Its also possible the stations programming could be at fault.

DirecTV reencodes everything that they broadcast, so the potential to introduce out of sync audio that wasn't in the original source exists for every channel, but I would assume that they also have the ability to correct sync issues that are already in the source material when the reencoding takes place.

[sr6376]

I came over from Cox Communications about a year ago. I cannot recall EVER having video/audio sync problems on their HD channels.

Now, don't get me wrong, they only had a dozen or so channels at the time, so it wasn't a huge number or anything, but the picture quality was beautiful and the audio was always in sync w/ the picture.

I wanted to switch to D* for years, finally purchased a house that had the southern facing wall that wasn't blocked by trees, etc, so I could get D*. Their picture quality is fantastic, their audio quality is fantastic, however, they do have an issue that they had better get fixed, and soon!

I wonder if people who currently have Comcast, Cox, or DishNetHD, can comment as to whether or not they see the sync problems on their version of Discovery ChannelHD (the simulcast one). Of all of the channels, that one seems to have the most problems, though they all have some level of sync issue.

[lifelong]

Sheesh, dude, relax.
I am relaxed. Are you? In the grand scheme of things?

[wavemaster]

We have comcast digital and DirectTV and AAGR the audio sync is unique to the new DirectTV HD channels. We would see it once in a while on the MPEG2 HD's but it was rare. We see it regularly on any of the HDDVR's in the house on the new channels. There has been a time or two in the past when you could see it was the source by switching between the two.

As for relaxing, telling someone else to relax is no different than them telling you to get fired up - lol.

My take on it,

We paid a PREMIUM for HD TV's.
We paid a PREMIUM for all the cabling.
We paid a PREMIUM for our DirectTV HD gear.
We PAY a PREMIUM for all the HD content.

Call me old fashioned but I expect the experience to be PREMIUM.

I understand that after all those PREMIUMS some people would be quite happy with "well it's better than SD" - and be very relaxed about the whole issue. I also understand that some people (me included) expect PREMIUM when they pay for it.

[wavemaster]

WARNING - This is a joke.

AO: Thank you for calling Allstate, how can I help you,
CU: I got into an accident yesterday and totaled my car
AO: Well I'm sorry to hear that, is everyone OK?
CU: Unfortunately I broke my wrist and leg, but we're alive
AO: Well at least it wasn't serious.
CU: I have the top-of-the-line PREMIUM coverage so I should be all set.
AO: Let's run a check on things here, hold on please........
AO: Mr. Johnson, thank you for holding, I have your information here.
AO: What time did the accident occur, specifically?
CU: Well on the police report it says 11:15AM
AO: OK, hold on............
AO: Well I have good news and bad news, which would you like first?
CU: The good please
AO: You are a PREMIUM account holder in good standing.
CU: And the bad?
AO: Unfortunately, during the time of your accident your coverage was LESS than PREMIUM. It only dropped for a few minutes, but it was during the time of your accident so you'll have to pay the collision and medical yourself.....
CU: Huh?
AO: Don't get upset, or worry though next time you get into an accident you will probably be getting the PREMIUM coverage you pay for.

[davahad]

It is definitely a DTV problem. A lot of the time you can press pause once or twice and then play and then the sync will better or even not noticeable until you skip ahead at a commercial. If it was only the encoding or the broadcast it would always be off by the same amount. The DTV DVR is definitely part of the problem.

[JeffBowser]

Not a question of it it is right or wrong, or if we should expect better, it's merely a question of where this ranks in importance compared to other things in life. As I said, I don't like it, and, in fact, I depend on audio sync to be right due to my bad hearing. But you you know, why should I get my panties in a twist over it ? It's not worth going through life full of self-righteous indignation over trivia. Take your focus off the little picture once in awhile and look at the bigger picture. Come in here, vent about it a little, but then place it in proper perspective, use the time you spent making up some weird insurance company skit over it and spend it with your kids instead, or admiring a sunset, or, or, or.....

We have comcast digital and DirectTV and AAGR the audio sync is unique to the new DirectTV HD channels. We would see it once in a while on the MPEG2 HD's but it was rare. We see it regularly on any of the HDDVR's in the house on the new channels. There has been a time or two in the past when you could see it was the source by switching between the two.

As for relaxing, telling someone else to relax is no different than them telling you to get fired up - lol.

My take on it,

We paid a PREMIUM for HD TV's.
We paid a PREMIUM for all the cabling.
We paid a PREMIUM for our DirectTV HD gear.
We PAY a PREMIUM for all the HD content.

Call me old fashioned but I expect the experience to be PREMIUM.

I understand that after all those PREMIUMS some people would be quite happy with "well it's better than SD" - and be very relaxed about the whole issue. I also understand that some people (me included) expect PREMIUM when they pay for it.

[Hutchinshouse]

Don't care whose fault it is, I just want it fixed. Nothing bugs me more than audio that is out of sync. Last time I checked, the year was 2007. I'm pretty sure the technology required to correct this known issue is within our capabilities. I just want it fixed. I know DIRECTV is partly to blame. On many occasions a simply press of the pause button corrects the issue. At other times, nothing I do will re-sync the audio. In cases like this I assume the networks are to blame. Regardless, have I mentioned that I want it fixed? :D

Have we ever done a poll or something to see which input (HDMI or optical) has better results? Peace my friends!

[laurie_lu]

I wonder if people who currently have Comcast, Cox, or DishNetHD, can comment as to whether or not they see the sync problems on their version of Discovery ChannelHD (the simulcast one).

My father has Comcast with high def. He does NOT have sync problems.

[lifelong]

Not a question of it it is right or wrong, or if we should expect better, it's merely a question of where this ranks in importance compared to other things in life. As I said, I don't like it, and, in fact, I depend on audio sync to be right due to my bad hearing. But you you know, why should I get my panties in a twist over it ? It's not worth going through life full of self-righteous indignation over trivia. Take your focus off the little picture once in awhile and look at the bigger picture. Come in here, vent about it a little, but then place it in proper perspective, use the time you spent making up some weird insurance company skit over it and spend it with your kids instead, or admiring a sunset, or, or, or.....

dude, what are you talking about? "importance compared to other things in life???" "admiring a sunset????" this is a forum for discussing DIRECTV. what else are we supposed to discuss in this forum? what makes you think that all we do in our lives is complain about audio sync problems? some of us feel it's a problem, so we discuss in a DIRECTV FORUM.

[wavemaster]

That's great advice Jeff.

Unfortunately the kids are in bed long before 1:00AM. I'm not sure where you live but, the sun sets here long before that as well.

Regardless, as I said above you telling someone to relax is no different than them telling you to get fired up.

It's the person that only allows for their own passions and points of view that needs to relax and get some perspective. The guy across the street spends months/years restoring old gas guzzling cars. I suppose he should do something that "I" find of value with his time? - Ridiculous.

And more importantly this thread "audio Sync" IS EXACTLY about -

Your words,
"it is right or wrong, or if we should expect better."

Maybe we should have threads dedicated to the shortcomings of those of us who expect the service we pay for?
"what's more important than TV"
"what percentage of service that you pay in full for should you expect to receive"

But this thread being about "audio sync" seems to be the right place to discuss the fact that the new HD channels on HDDVR's have issues.

[JeffBowser]

See, my point is being completely missed. I am not saying it's not worth discussing, or that it is not a problem, or that we shouldn't discuss it at all. I am simpy saying it's not worth getting intensely wound up over. I make this point again and again, on various subjects, and it gets missed most of the time. Discuss, elaborate, commiserate, but don't get all up in arms, is my point.


That's great advice Jeff.

Unfortunately the kids are in bed long before 1:00AM. I'm not sure where you live but, the sun sets here long before that as well.

Regardless, as I said above you telling someone to relax is no different than them telling you to get fired up.

It's the person that only allows for their own passions and points of view that needs to relax and get some perspective. The guy across the street spends months/years restoring old gas guzzling cars. I suppose he should do something that "I" find of value with his time? - Ridiculous.

And more importantly this thread "audio Sync" IS EXACTLY about -

Your words,
"it is right or wrong, or if we should expect better."

Maybe we should have threads dedicated to the shortcomings of those of us who expect the service we pay for?
"what's more important than TV"
"what percentage of service that you pay in full for should you expect to receive"

But this thread being about "audio sync" seems to be the right place to discuss the fact that the new HD channels on HDDVR's have issues.

[wavemaster]

See, my point is being completely missed.

And my point is don't YOU get "up in arms" about what others "get up in arms" about. Who are you to decide what is important to someone else? Maybe TV - IS - the most important thing to some people, well God bless them, it's their choice. In the same way as watching another sunset may be "most important" to you......

..... Sorry I lost my train of thought, the wife just came in naked wanting to give me something that IS a priority for me.



Has anyone "in the know" heard anything from DirectTV on this? Is there a solution on the horizon? Will it plague the HR20's for their lifespan?

[JeffBowser]

:lol: Now there is a distraction that works for me.


..... Sorry I lost my train of thought, the wife just came in naked wanting to give me something that IS a priority for me.

[Impala1ss]

See, my point is being completely missed. I am not saying it's not worth discussing, or that it is not a problem, or that we shouldn't discuss it at all. I am simpy saying it's not worth getting intensely wound up over. I make this point again and again, on various subjects, and it gets missed most of the time. Discuss, elaborate, commiserate, but don't get all up in arms, is my point.

Sounds like an "old hippy." Peace, love and all that bull****. I always find those who preach to others about the other's "problems" are the ones who have the most problems.:eek2: If everyone was like you say they should be, nothing would get done in this world. Two sayings come to mind - "if you're not the lead dog, the scenery never changes" and my favorite " Lead, follow, or get out of the way."

[sr6376]

I hear what you are saying Jeff, your original point was missed by many of the people in here, it didn't appear to me to be a malicious attack on people but they took it that way.

Anyhow, back on topic, I have an H20 (non recording) and definately have the problem. Double in fact, because I can't "just hit the pause button" to correct it. I change channels and sometimes when I go back to the previous channel it's better, sometimes worse. What really sucks about that, is if I am watching something that goes to commercial, I change the channel (I know, shame on me, I should force myself to watch them but I don't). When I go back to a program that was running "ok" sound/video, it can be way off. Then I am really pissed at myself for not watching commercials, etc. and have to play the game of switching back and forth until it finally gets acceptable again (if at all!)

I have said all along that I believe this is not a source issue, but rather something inherent to the H20/HR20 and from what I have seen the H21/HR21.

Personally, I have a HUGE problem with having paid $200 for an H20 less than a year ago, and have issues like this. I had cable and NEVER had to pay upfront $200, nor did I ever see audio/video sync problems. I have now got two other HDTV's in the house that are in dire need of HD STB's and I cannot justify paying any money out of pocket when problems like this are persisting.

Like noted above, pay premium prices for equipment, told all over the place from D* about how wonderful all of the new HD channels are and how excellent the quality is, but I cannot agree with them. If someone asks me about HD programming, I will likely have to push them towards the local cable company as I would not be able to look them in the eye if I recommended D*! That is just plain sad!

[Doug Brott]

Hey folks, let's make sure this topic stays on track ..

[DBSK2]

Hey folks, let's make sure this topic stays on track ..

Add me to the list of people with noticeable Audio Synch issues -- I was just hooked up yesterday and have noticed it on Local HD's and other HD's:

My location = Minnesota

The following were all on separate channels where it was easily noticeable:

KMSP HD (Vikings Football Game)
During Gladiator HD Movie
During Legends of the Fall HD Movie
Smithsonian HD (Vietnam Wall) Story

This is my Setup:

HR20 HD DVR
Sharp Aquos 46" LCD (LC46D82U)
HDMI Hookup for HR20

Thinking HDMI might be an issue I connected Component to another TV input and also Digital Out to my Yamaha Receiver. With this config I was able to switch between HDMI and Component using the Input on my TV -- I noticed the exact same behavior between the two -- in other words no difference whatsoever (the audio was still noticeably ahead of video).

Perhaps I should try RCA audio vs. Digital to see if it is the same or not.

I sure hope this gets corrected in the near future somehow.

[Impala1ss]

AM I the only one getting video ahead of the audio?:confused: