View Full Version : Intermittant 103(b) problems
I have 2 HR20's and my signal strength on 103(b) in normally in the 80-mid 90's range on both boxes on all transponders.
Every once and a while, I get a 771 on both boxes for any channel coming from 103(b). When I check the signal strength, I get 0's across the board on 103(b). If I wait a few minutes, it goes back to the previously high readings. This is happening more frequently. Often, it is when there is even the slightest hint of rain moving in to the area.
Being that this happens at the same time on both boxes, it is not a problem with the HR20. Where else should I look? Is it just a "rain fade" issue? Prior to this D10 lighting up, I have had maybe 2 occurances of rain fade in my 7 years with D*.
Could it be a bad LNB or bad multiswitch? Maybe my dish is loose? - is that even possible? If so, the it is unlikely as all other channels coming from the other satellites are fine during problem.
Thanks for any help you can give.
techrep
12-03-07, 12:53 PM
You see the 771 on both HR20's at the same time so, it is probably not a BBC, cable, or connector problem from the external multiswitch to the receivers.
Do you have a external multiswitch? If so, bypass the multiswitch with barrels and see if the problem goes away.
If no external multiswitch or if the bypass does not work, temporarily bypass the grounding block (if installed) with the same barrels.
If non of this fixes the problem then, I would suspect a LNB or the embedded multiswitch in the LNB and either will require a new LNB assembly or dish.
Two questions for you: 1. What type dish/LNB do you have? 2. How long are the cable runs from the dish to the HR20's?
You see the 771 on both HR20's at the same time so, it is probably not a BBC, cable, or connector problem from the external multiswitch to the receivers.
Do you have a external multiswitch? If so, bypass the multiswitch with barrels and see if the problem goes away.
If no external multiswitch or if the bypass does not work, temporarily bypass the grounding block (if installed) with the same barrels.
If non of this fixes the problem then, I would suspect a LNB or the embedded multiswitch in the LNB and either will require a new LNB assembly or dish.
Two questions for you: 1. What type dish/LNB do you have? 2. How long are the cable runs from the dish to the HR20's?
1. I have an AT-9 dish.
2. The cable runs are about 50 ft to the multiswitch and 20 ft from the multiswitch to the boxes.
The thing is that I am having no trouble with programming coming off of the older satellites. No rain fade - no problems at all. It is only programming from D10 that is giving me trouble.
Canis Lupus
12-03-07, 01:31 PM
Sounds like it might be a bad LNB. When the 103b signals ARE "high", how high are they?
Sounds like it might be a bad LNB. When the 103b signals ARE "high", how high are they?
Currently:
1-8 95 84 94 83 95 88 91 85
9-16 95 87 89 86 95 90 N/A N/A
17-24 95 N/A N/A N/A N/A 95 N/A N/A N/A
techrep
12-03-07, 01:46 PM
With those cable runs, total length of cable is not the problem.
I suspect that the AT9 (sidecar) dish is the culprit and "WE" have seen your symptoms (high TP readings falling off or even going to zero for no reason) on several AT9 dishes. The fix is to replace the AT9 with the AU9 (slimline).
I will get you some second opinions.
Canis Lupus
12-03-07, 01:47 PM
Those are pretty good. A lot of posts I've seen regarding the full drop to 0 pointed to a bad LNB, and since this is on both DVRs, the only other possibility mentioned above could be the multiswitch. Some AT-9s, however, have been the culprit.
Do you have the D* protection plan? If so, I'd get them out to replace the AT-9 with a Slimline (in some areas installers are being told this is the only acceptable solution), and also have them check/replace the multiswitch. I'm assuming your multi-switch currently installed is a Zinwell WB68? You might want to confirm that as well before you get further along in the process.
techrep
12-03-07, 01:48 PM
Sounds like it might be a bad LNB. When the 103b signals ARE "high", how high are they?
Thanks Canis, that saves me one PM. ;)
Those are pretty good. A lot of posts I've seen regarding the full drop to 0 pointed to a bad LNB, and since this is on both DVRs, the only other possibility mentioned above could be the multiswitch. Some AT-9s, however, have been the culprit.
Do you have the D* protection plan? If so, I'd get them out to replace the AT-9 with a Slimline (in some areas installers are being told this is the only acceptable solution), and also have them check/replace the multiswitch. I'm assuming your multi-switch currently installed is a Zinwell WB68? You might want to confirm that as well before you get further along in the process.
Yes. I have the Zinwell WB68.
I don't have the protection plan.
Do I need to call D* and start from the beginning with tech support or can I just request that they swap out the dish? If I do speak with tech support, will they have an idea what I am talking about. If this is somewhat common, is there an internal memo that they can reference?
Canis Lupus
12-03-07, 02:04 PM
There have been some grey areas in terms of protection plans or not, and who's "at fault" with bad equipment, alignments, etc. so you may have to go "case by case" on this one.
I would think tech support is well aware of this, considering as mentioned above, some installers aren't even fixing LNBs on AT-9s, they're just replacing AT-9 with Slimline.
I would call though, and be calm and polite and specific. The "drop to 0" issue is likely well-known, so they may just say, "Yep and we're replacing that equipment so we'll do the same for you". Where it gets sketchy is if/when they bring up the $70 service call issue.
bonscott87
12-03-07, 02:19 PM
Same here. AT9 dish with the CalAmp LNBs. Was a bad LNB. I ordered up a Slimline that should be here in a couple days. I'd rather install myself then deal with the hassle of clueless CSRs and even more clueless installers.
It took a while (I had to get a supervisor) but I ordered a replacement dish for $70 installed.
They offered a service call for $70 but that left the dish replacement decision up to the discretion of the tech that came to my house. With this being an intermittent problem, it probably wouldn't be occurring at the time of the service call. For the same $70, I will definitely have the dish replaced.
Does anyone know if the mast from the AT-9 is the same size as the Slimline?
texasbrit
12-03-07, 03:14 PM
It certainly looks like a bad LNB (most likely water has got in to the connectors where the "sidecar" LNB is connected to the rest of the dish). DirecTV usually replaces the AT-9 with the slimline because the AT-9 LNbs are difficult to get hold of. It's easier just to replace the whole dish.
RobertE
12-03-07, 03:54 PM
I wouldn't completely rule out the WB68. With only two HR20s, the WB68 is completely redundant given the info you've provided so far.
That being said, I'm leaning towards a flakey LNB.
The mast is the same size, so no new holes in the roof. Just slide off, slide on.
Does anyone know if the mast from the AT-9 is the same size as the Slimline?
Yes, they can use the same mast
Canis Lupus
12-03-07, 04:37 PM
Maybe something to try before you get too far along is, if you can reach the dish, try unplugging that "sidecar" cable (small wires going from main LNB to sidecar), checking its condition, then plugging it back in to get a good seat. It could be loose enough that the connection intermittently fails?
Dunno - but something to try before you replace the whole thing.
It certainly looks like a bad LNB (most likely water has got in to the connectors where the "sidecar" LNB is connected to the rest of the dish). DirecTV usually replaces the AT-9 with the slimline because the AT-9 LNbs are difficult to get hold of. It's easier just to replace the whole dish.
I wouldn't completely rule out the WB68. With only two HR20s, the WB68 is completely redundant given the info you've provided so far.
That being said, I'm leaning towards a flakey LNB.....
He may have an SD box or two as well, but I agree, and the WB68 should be bypassed with barrels directly from the HR20's to the AT-9. As Robert and also Techrep say, the AT-9 is probably the culprit, but don't be too surprised if the problem returns.
At least an installed brand new Slimline @ $70 is a bargain, and even if it's not the culprit, it's an improvement at least from a mechanical reliability point of view. Plus you get a new LNB. Your current LNB is actually not optimal in any event, because of the odd/even disparity of the s. strengths on 103(b). I'd lay you odds it's a Calamp.
Just make sure that the alignment on the new install provides at least mostly all 90's on the 103(b), unless it's raining. :lol:
RobertE
12-03-07, 04:56 PM
Maybe something to try before you get too far along is, if you can reach the dish, try unplugging that "sidecar" cable (small wires going from main LNB to sidecar), checking its condition, then plugging it back in to get a good seat. It could be loose enough that the connection intermittently fails?
Dunno - but something to try before you replace the whole thing.
The sidecar portion is the 110/119 LNB. The main one has 99/101/103. So disconnecting the sidecar probably won't do much. That doesn't mean though that something has gone belly up in the main unit.
RobertE
12-03-07, 04:58 PM
He may have an SD box or two as well, but I agree, and the WB68 should be bypassed with barrels directly from the HR20's to the AT-9. As Robert and also Techrep say, the AT-9 is probably the culprit, but don't be too surprised if the problem returns.
At least an installed brand new Slimline @ $70 is a bargain, and even if it's not the culprit, it's an improvement at least from a mechanical reliability point of view. Plus you get a new LNB. Your current LNB is actually not optimal in any event, because of the odd/even disparity of the s. strengths on 103(b). I'd lay you odds it's a Calamp.
Just make sure that the alignment on the new install provides at least mostly all 90's on the 103(b), unless it's raining. :lol:
Odd/even differences are more likely to be caused by a minor out of alignment state rather than brand.
Still, for the long haul, a slimline will be worth it. Having an interchangable and replaceable LNB is a major plus.
Thanks for everyone's help. It is greatly appreciated.
I do have an SD box as well so I need the multiswitch. Hopefully the problem will go away with the Slimline dish.
Canis Lupus
12-03-07, 05:12 PM
Sorry Robert yes - didn't mean to confuse the issue - just meant that maybe if there's something in there, or a bad connection, that maybe there was an outside chance - just something to try for, hopefully, not much effort that might magically fix it - a bit of a stretch though :)
The sidecar portion is the 110/119 LNB. The main one has 99/101/103. So disconnecting the sidecar probably won't do much. That doesn't mean though that something has gone belly up in the main unit.
Odd/even differences are more likely to be caused by a minor out of alignment state rather than brand......
Agree, but this one is already in alignment. There's no way you're gonna get 10 more points out of the evens with the odds already this high.
GatorPhan
12-04-07, 07:28 PM
I'm having a similar problem where my H20 is not getting the new sat even though I get local HDs but my HR20 gets everything fine. I've reset the H20 and have even tried subbing out BBC's with no avail. Thoughts?
raoul5788
12-04-07, 07:56 PM
I'm having a similar problem where my H20 is not getting the new sat even though I get local HDs but my HR20 gets everything fine. I've reset the H20 and have even tried subbing out BBC's with no avail. Thoughts?
Have you checked/swapped the cables from the dish or multiswitch, if you have one?
rotohead
12-05-07, 09:29 PM
Not meaning to hijack thread but I have good strength on 103(a)...80's to 90's and very low on 103(b)...30's to 60's.
Now I'm clueless. Any help appreciated. I'm shooting thru a narrow gap in trees. All other sats are in the 80's to 90's. I subscribe to most channels and don't see any loss of programming yet.
Chuck
Not meaning to hijack thread but I have good strength on 103(a)...80's to 90's and very low on 103(b)...30's to 60's.
Now I'm clueless. Any help appreciated. I'm shooting thru a narrow gap in trees. All other sats are in the 80's to 90's. I subscribe to most changes and don't see any loss of programming yet.
Chuck
Bad BBC, bad LNB.... What kind of dish?
texasbrit
12-06-07, 08:38 AM
Not meaning to hijack thread but I have good strength on 103(a)...80's to 90's and very low on 103(b)...30's to 60's.
Now I'm clueless. Any help appreciated. I'm shooting thru a narrow gap in trees. All other sats are in the 80's to 90's. I subscribe to most changes and don't see any loss of programming yet.
Chuck
That's quite possible. The 103(a) beam is much wider than the 103(b) beam. If your HD locals are on 103(a) (the list of locals in this forum does not say) then you should get at least one transponder on 103(a) in the mid-90s. Your 101 and 119 signals should be in the mid 90s to 100 to get good signals on 103(b).
There are other potential reasons like a bad BBC, a diplexer or a surge protector in the line somewhere, or using the wrong multiswitch, but if none of those obvious things alignment would be the place to start.
rotohead
12-06-07, 10:05 AM
Bad BBC, bad LNB.... What kind of dish?
New slimline...
rotohead
12-06-07, 10:10 AM
That's quite possible. The 103(a) beam is much wider than the 103(b) beam. If your HD locals are on 103(a) (the list of locals in this forum does not say) then you should get at least one transponder on 103(a) in the mid-90s. Your 101 and 119 signals should be in the mid 90s to 100 to get good signals on 103(b).
There are other potential reasons like a bad BBC, a diplexer or a surge protector in the line somewhere, or using the wrong multiswitch, but if none of those obvious things alignment would be the place to start.
Thanks for the info...no diplexer or surge protectors. Direct feed(s) from slimline dish. I guess I'll look at alignment.
I'm worried about the gap in between trees that I shoot thru. Shouldn't I be OK if I get the 99 sat at signal strength levels in the 90's? As I understand it the 103 sat should be inside that one. I"m just worried that a lone tree branch could interfere.
TIA, Chuck
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