Seattle Slimline - rainfade, roof penetration?

[jcricket]

So I'm working up the courage to eventually upgrade to an HR20/21 (to replace my aging HR10). I know this will necessitate a new dish. My current 3 LNB is mounted to the chimney with chimney straps. I do get more rain fade, and occasional wind loss, than I would like (not every day, mind you). This is especially true on the MPEG2 HD channels. I suspect with the new Slimline they'll want to mount it directly to the roof.

My questions for other Seattle-area residents are:

1) With the wind load of the new dish but also the new monopoles do you find rain fade or wind issues at all? Mine will be mounted on a roof on top of my 2 story house on Cap Hill (a couple blocks from Volunteer Park - one of the higher points in Seattle).

2) Has anyone had any issues with water penetration with a direct roof mount? I've looked into the commdeck/retrodeck products but don't feel like "complicating" the install if it's unnecessary. My existing cables come up to the roof pipes with "covers" (upside-down-U shapes to prevent water infiltration) that I had installed before the roof went up. They have flashing that surrounds them, so I shouldn't need any more cables pulled or holes cut.

3) I'll likely be removing the OTA roof antenna (which has lag bolts into the roof for the pole/tripod) because it's proved increasing unreliable and unless I wait for SWM, I'm not gonna be able to use it anyway. Plus I can get via MPEG4/satellite all the channels I get OTA. Any suggestions for the lag bolts? Just leave them in and disconnect the antenna?

4) If I get a "free install" from DirecTV can I pay the guys a little extra to get rid of the OTA antenna for me?

[Mertzen]

1> Propperly mounted with two monopoles the Ka/Ku is rock solid. I have seen many right by the atlantic that were there for a long time and are still rock solid.
2 > Make sure the tech uses silicone or bishop tape. They create a good seal.
3> Take of the antenna but leave in the base that attaches to the roof as not to break the seal.
4> Green always works with DTV tech.

[marcmec]

Here in the Portland, OR area I have my slimline mounted to the side of a very large solar panel frame made of wood. I have the dish mounted with 4 lag bolts and no monopoles. The slimline is connected to my HR20-700 via two 300' runs of RG11 cable, which DirecTV claimed would not work (it works flawlessly). To answer your questions...

1) I have had no wind related problems whatsoever and we have had a few windstorms here this Fall. The dish is in a very exposed spot, that being said, I think that I've been pretty lucky since I don't have monopoles.
I have only had a few dropouts/pixelation on some of the new HD channels during very heavy rain. I can see that the signals on satellites at 103 and 99 (the Ka sats) get pretty low, but we are talking a monsoon volume of rain. It has only happened twice, and only for a minute or two each time.

2) I have never mounted a dish on a roof, so I can't help you there.

3) Same as #2

4) I would contact the installer first and ask them, they don't like surprises.

[jcricket]

1> Properly mounted with two monopoles the Ka/Ku is rock solid. I have seen many right by the Atlantic that were there for a long time and are still rock solid.
2 > Make sure the tech uses silicone or bishop tape. They create a good seal.
3> Take of the antenna but leave in the base that attaches to the roof as not to break the seal.
4> Green always works with DTV tech.
Thanks for the advice. I'll definitely try to ask questions about the mounting they plan to do.

The antenna (#3) has four separate lag bolts (each cabled to a pipe that's bolted to a "stink pipe"). I think they can just remove the pipe/antenna, cut the cables and leave the 4 lag bolts (with their sealant and washers) where they are. Shouldn't be a problem for anyone with some skills (i.e. not me).

I know that if anyone is competent, and installs in the Seattle area, they've got to be able to properly seal things. But I've just been wary of poking too many holes in the roof.

[carl6]

I'm about 4 or 5 miles north of you. Have a roof mounted slimline with monopoles. No problems at all with wind or rain (and I do get both - I have wide open exposure to the SW looking over Puget Sound). I don't think I have ever experienced rain fade. I have had a couple of signal loss events from snow accumulating on the dish, but it is so rare we get any appreciable snow that is not a concern.

Ironwood does the local installs. They have both full time regular employees and contractors. I've had good experience with both. Make sure you talk through everything with the installer before you let him start work, and that you are both in agreement on what he is going to do and how he is going to do it.

Carl

[litzdog911]

I've had very few "rain fade" disruptions with my 5-LNB dish. Even last night's snow accumulation (~4" here in Mill Creek) never disrupted my reception.

[jcricket]

Ironwood does the local installs. They have both full time regular employees and contractors. I've had good experience with both. Make sure you talk through everything with the installer before you let him start work, and that you are both in agreement on what he is going to do and how he is going to do it.

Thanks everyone for the advice - I'll definitely make sure to be home and to talk it through with them before they get started. I haven't had any bad experiences, but it's been, oh, 5-6 years since I had anything installed on my roof (and I specifically used the chimney straps to avoid drilling holes back then)...

Any rain fade in today's deluge? That's the real test. Record breaking rain (2.5" in 6 hours, and another 2.5" expected by midnight tonight).

[skyboysea]

I have never had any problem with rain (even today) but in the last two days I had to clean the dish several times because of the snow accumulation that cut the signal to 0. The signal from the old sats is way more susceptible to rain fade than the one from 103 and 99. Yesterday I was keeping an eye on the signal level as snow was building up on the dish: the MPEG2 channels were out for a long time (they went dead at 50% level) before I lost the MPEG4 (still working at 13%).

[carl6]

I had no rain fade this morning, and it was about the hardest rain I have seen (and I'm a native). The news just said Seattle has had almost 3.5 inches so far today. Bremerton has gotten 8.7 inches so far today.

Carl

[Mike500]

If you already have a rigidly mounted antenna tripod mounted on the roof, it is a simple adaptation, if you remove the standard 1-1/4" actual antenna mast and replace it with a $6 1-5/8" actual diameter galvanized chain link fence line post sold in the fence department at Home Depot.

Because an antenna tripod will not have a large enough opening to take a 2 inch actual pole, even if you find one, the 1-5/8 inch pole will fit and can be adjusted with the tripod's bolts to exact vertical plumb. Just make sure that only 6 inches stick up from the tripod for stability, and use an adapter like this one;

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=150191362370&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=005

A colleague of mine developed and manufactures the adapter. We, as installers, use the adapter with mast and a standard antenna tripod frequently, instead of the hard to get and expensive 2 inch pole and tripod.

[ft_7001]

I have had a problem with loss of signal due to snow. Not just yesterday(Sunday) morning but during the last snow event as well. My wife is ready to chuck the whole satellite thing and go cable, but I am morally opposed to the cable monopoly personally.
I had a guy at D*TV recommend a cover, but in looking online it appeared that nothing was out there to cover the Slimline. He mentioned some other things that might require repeated applications over time, but a cover sounds like the easiest even if not the cheapest solution.
Does anybody out there have one? know where I can get one? have a better idea?

[1948GG]

My questions for other Seattle-area residents are:

1) With the wind load of the new dish but also the new monopoles do you find rain fade or wind issues at all? Mine will be mounted on a roof on top of my 2 story house on Cap Hill (a couple blocks from Volunteer Park - one of the higher points in Seattle).

Why do people seem to insist upon always putting the dish up HIGH. STUPID! Get the thing as LOW as possible where the line of sight is still possible. This will get the dish out of the wind, rain, and any snow effect (if you get any, which is very rare for Seattle in general), it's easy to brush off with a broom.

FYI I've NEVER had ANYONE with LOS problems, even, put a dish on the roof. I've seen them, and in EVERY case it was completely un-nesessary. Unless your home is completely surrounded by 100' trees or 10 story apartment complexes, or the like. And in the case of trees, it was easier to trench the direct-buriable cable out to the edge of the treeline.

Please find a low place for the dish, you'll thank yourself in the future!

[Renard]

Why do people seem to insist upon always putting the dish up HIGH. STUPID! Get the thing as LOW as possible where the line of sight is still possible. This will get the dish out of the wind, rain, and any snow effect (if you get any, which is very rare for Seattle in general), it's easy to brush off with a broom.

FYI I've NEVER had ANYONE with LOS problems, even, put a dish on the roof. I've seen them, and in EVERY case it was completely un-nesessary. Unless your home is completely surrounded by 100' trees or 10 story apartment complexes, or the like. And in the case of trees, it was easier to trench the direct-buriable cable out to the edge of the treeline.

Please find a low place for the dish, you'll thank yourself in the future!

I totally agree with you, a dish on a ground will work as well as a dish up on the tallest building. (of course if you can install it on the ground)

I never had problem here in Bellingham, sometimes we have strong winds (last time 97Mph), a lot of rain, sometimes a lot of snow, NEVER HAD A PROBLEM, I found the new 5 lnb dish better for signal strengh than the 3 old lnb. If your dish is properly aimed you should receive a signal 99.9999999 % of the time. I don't want to say 100% but it's really really close to it.

[1948GG]

IIf your dish is properly aimed you should receive a signal 99.9999999 % of the time. I don't want to say 100% but it's really really close to it.

This morning was the second little 'brush' with the white fluffy stuff here this winter; Barely a dusting, the Ku signals dropped to zip for about 1 hour (with the Seattle spot beam hovering around 30, the pictures were breaking up), with the Ka spot beams holding nicely at around 50+, steady as a rock picture. I.E., so much for Ka being 'better' than Ku, the link budget at least with my VERY well aligned dish worked much better.

Then, as the rain started up, everything went back up to normal; the first dusting a month ago I actually went out and broomed off the snow from the reflector, but I was just TOO lazy to do so today (and it looked too light from the window!).

Besides, I had my HD locals, so... I could watch all the folks scurry around bumping into each other!

But this evening, my next door neighbor came over to say his SD reciever was locked up 'searching for signal...' but he already had figured out to give the power a swift kick (unplug, wait a minute, plug back up) and it was up and running by the time I went over.

[litzdog911]

This morning was the second little 'brush' with the white fluffy stuff here this winter; Barely a dusting, the Ku signals dropped to zip for about 1 hour (with the Seattle spot beam hovering around 30, the pictures were breaking up), with the Ka spot beams holding nicely at around 50+, steady as a rock picture. I.E., so much for Ka being 'better' than Ku, the link budget at least with my VERY well aligned dish worked much better.

Then, as the rain started up, everything went back up to normal; the first dusting a month ago I actually went out and broomed off the snow from the reflector, but I was just TOO lazy to do so today (and it looked too light from the window!).

Besides, I had my HD locals, so... I could watch all the folks scurry around bumping into each other!

But this evening, my next door neighbor came over to say his SD reciever was locked up 'searching for signal...' but he already had figured out to give the power a swift kick (unplug, wait a minute, plug back up) and it was up and running by the time I went over.


No problems with reception due to the snow buildup on my dish this morning here in Mill Creek. Signals maintained nicely on all Ka and Ku-band transponders.