HR21 signal loss

[Smitty519]

Hello,

I just had a new HR21 installed on Monday. I really love this DVR, but, I'm having a serious problem.

While watching programs on many channels (I haven't had time to try them all yet, after all, there are so many :) ) the video will get many fine horizontal lines, tear up and then drop. Sometimes this happens several times in a row and others it happens once and then returns to normal for awhile, only to do it again. Last night, I was doing some reconfiguration on the home theater system and had the whole systems unplugged for awhile. After firing it all back up, everything was fine for the rest of the night. The HD picture on the Smithsonian channel and the History channel was mind blowing. However, this morning I watched Imus on RFD and then recorded 2 horse programs on RFD for my wife. Once during Imus and then several times during the horse programs the signal drop/breakups were back.

The signal strengths on all satellites all used transponders range from 87 to 100, with most being in the mid to high 90's. An H21 installed in our bedroom never seems to have any breakups or drops. The internal temperature of the HR21 is running between 115 and 120 degrees. Is this normal or too hot? The HR21 is running 18f software. Is this a known issue or is the box broke??

-Smitty

[Canis Lupus]

hey smitty,
you might want to follow this thread and the first suggestion - which would be to swap your receivers to see if you can isolate the problem to cabling/switch or the receiver itself.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=111703

[Smitty519]

Swapping the receivers would really be tough as the DVR is connected into my home theater system. Also there is only 1 cable to the bedroom (where the H21 is).Further, the last 2 times the losses have started I rebooted the HR21 (via the reset button) and the problem clears for awhile. How long is awhile you ask ... Somewhere between 2 and 15 hours. It seems like if it were cabling or switch problems it wouldn't clear with just rebooting the DVR.

I guess my real question is: is this a problem others are experiencing, or is it likely a bad box? Could it be a firmware issue? It seems I've read other posts about similar problems, and I'm trying to decide whether to have the box replaced.

-Smitty

[Canis Lupus]

OK - you mentioned temperature and I guess that could also be a possibility. I don't have a 21 but thought I read they should run cooler than, say, a 20-700 like I have.

You mentioned the home theater system. Is your 21 inside a cabinet? It's always best if you can to give as much venting as possible to these boxes.

Has it shutdown/restarted for no apparent reason at all?

You also mentioned a theater reconfigure with everything unplugged for a while, followed by it working for a while after that. This could also possibly point to temp, as the 21 had completely cooled down on unplug, only to possibly overheat after a time when reconnected.

[redwoode]

My HR21 internal team was between 114 and 118 when using internal HD so I'd say you're OK temp-wise. Since using an external HD the couple of times I've checked since it's been in the mid-70's.

[Smitty519]

OK - you mentioned temperature and I guess that could also be a possibility. I don't have a 21 but thought I read they should run cooler than, say, a 20-700 like I have.

You mentioned the home theater system. Is your 21 inside a cabinet? It's always best if you can to give as much venting as possible to these boxes.

Has it shutdown/restarted for no apparent reason at all?

You also mentioned a theater reconfigure with everything unplugged for a while, followed by it working for a while after that. This could also possibly point to temp, as the 21 had completely cooled down on unplug, only to possibly overheat after a time when reconnected.

Yes, it's in a cabinet, but has plenty of ventilation. In another thread I asked about temperature, and the responses I got seemed to say this was well within the normal range.

No, it's never shut down or restarted on its own.

The last couple of times, all I did was hit reset and let it reboot without dropping power or cooling down. After the reset the problem clears for awhile.

-Smitty

[say-what]

How is the unit connected to the TV? hdmi, component...... any intervening switches or a/v/ receivers?

If hdmi, what make/model tv and/or a/v receiver?

Have you tried new cables from the HR21 to the tv?

What happens if you change channels when the lines appear? Do they stay or go away? If they go away, what happens if you change back to the problem channel? What happens if you swap the input cables and bbc's without changing channels?

[Smitty519]

How is the unit connected to the TV? hdmi, component...... any intervening switches or a/v/ receivers?

If hdmi, what make/model tv and/or a/v receiver?

Have you tried new cables from the HR21 to the tv?

What happens if you change channels when the lines appear? Do they stay or go away? If they go away, what happens if you change back to the problem channel? What happens if you swap the input cables and bbc's without changing channels?

Component to a Rotel RSP 1098 and component to the Samsung 5039 (component cables from Blue Jeans cable). It was working fine with the old Samsung HD receiver and works fine with this DVR. When I reboot the DVR to clear the problem, nothing is done to the Rotel.

Not HDMI.

Sometimes the problem follows to the new channel and sometimes it doesn't. Ditto for switching back to the original channel. When things deteriorate to a lost signal, the Samsung goes to a blue screen that says "No Signal". Sometimes this lasts awhile, sometimes it changes back and forth between the blue screen and the video. Eventually it usually gets back to lined video for awhile. Always (so far), after a restart, it's ok for awhile.

I'll have to try that swap, I haven't done that yet.

-Smitty

[say-what]

It's sounding more and more like something's up with the HR21. If it follows the channel change, then it's following the tuners, as a channel change swaps tuners.

Let us know what swapping cables does, just to rule that out.

I wonder if it could be related to the bbc's?

[Smitty519]

It's sounding more and more like something's up with the HR21. If it follows the channel change, then it's following the tuners, as a channel change swaps tuners.

Let us know what swapping cables does, just to rule that out.

I wonder if it could be related to the bbc's?

Okay, I had to wait awhile for the problem to surface again. As soon as I started seeing picture break up and and signal loss, I swapped the bbc's going into the dvr. This change eliminates the multi switch port, the cables from the switch to the DVR and the bbc's. No, change in the problem. When there's no signal, the audio and video both drop and any attempt to look at info or menus or anything else does not work. I checked the signal strengths while it was occurring and all were in the high 80's to 100. As soon as the signal comes back, all menus and info and stuff work fine until the next dropout which may be anything from a couple seconds to 10 minutes.

As usual, a DVR reset "fixed" it for now.

I guess it's time to ask for a replacement HR21.

-Smitty

[Smitty519]

Well, I got the HR21 replaced. The new one looked great for about an hour and a half then, same old problem. I'm not one to believe in 2 brand new units having exactly the same problem, so back to the drawing board.

My processor/preamp is a Rotel RSP-1098. It has a TFT display which is used for all menus and setup as well as being able to display the current video source, but only in composite. So, if you want the selected video on the TFT you have to hook up the composite input from that source as well as the desired HD source. I'm using component as the Rotel doesn't do HDMI switching. I have been using the old Samsung HD DirecTV receiver with the Rotel in this manner since 2004. It's all always worked great. But, in order not to leave any stone unturned, I unplugged the composite connection from the Rotel and the problem is totally resolved. I now have beautiful HD with no interruptions or breakup.

So, where's the problem?? The Rotel is a great processor/preamp. Rotel support says "it must be a DirecTV problem". I sent the same email to Rotel and DirecTV. The response from DirecTV is even less helpful than the response from Rotel. I hate problems that span multiple vendors. I would really like to resolve this as having the video on the TFT is very useful at times.

Anyway, thanks to all who responded. and I'd really like a good idea of where to go from here.

-Smitty

[K4SMX]

I'm amazed you actually discovered the fact that the simultaneous composite/component connection caused picture breakup, apparently originating in the HR21. Just goes to prove the old troubleshooting adage: either remove/eliminate items one-by-one, or remove them all and add them back one-by-one.

This is the first report I've seen of this problem. It needs to be resolved, though, because there are many who use the composite output simultaneously with an HD output to run RF modulators feeding other SD TV's via coax connection. I suspect, however, that not many are using composite/component, but rather composite/HDMI.

This may or may not be something that a firmware update can correct. Since it is happening on two new receivers, it certainly appears to be a valid issue. Thanks for discovering it. You may have to have a different model HD-DVR to fully utilize your setup, unfortunately. If your setup worked with the SIR-TS360, it should work with any other HD receiver as well, so your Rotel should be "off the hook" as the source of the problem.