New DBSTalk Member (First DirecTV Install Tomorrow) Questions

[DBSK2]

Hello, everyone!

New user and have DirecTV scheduled for install tomorrow between 8-12.

I originally had an install scheduled for last Saturday but it was cancelled due to Snow (Minnesota) -- hopefully they do a good job this Saturday in 'cold conditions'. I have been told by the local installer that they reserved an HR-20 for me also so hopefully that will hold true.

I feel like I have done a pretty good job of reading the various FAQ's and Receiver-Installation tips.pdf, etc.; however, two things I'm wondering about:

1) I have one HDTV and two Standard TV's -- I've ordered an HD DVR and two basic receivers. Should there be direct lines from the dish to the HD DVR Receiver (i.e. should I make sure that these lines for the HD DVR are not going through a multi-switch prior?). I'm thinking I don't have to worry as much about the Basic Receivers but that HD should be direct?

2) What do good Signal Strength numbers look like? Should I not have any "na's" or zeros listed or are some acceptable?

I am borrowing the following from one of Swede1's posts where he is troubleshooting 103B:

101 :
1-8 : 87,90,87,32,87,94,87,94
9-16 : 85,94,89,25,89,96,83,94
17-24 : 81,96,83,56,87,94,85,94
25-32 : 87,0,85,96,89,94,85,96

110:
1-8 : na,na,na,na,nana,na,94
9-16 : na,92,na,94,na,na,na,na
17-24 : na,na,na,na,na,na,na,na
25-32 : na,na,na,na,na,na,na,na,

103A
1-8 : 0,0,0,0,0,0,na,na
9-16 : na,na,na,na,na,na,0,0
17-24 : 0,na,na,na,na,0,na,na
25-32 : na,na,na,na,na,na,na,na

103B
1-8 : 83,83,83,0,0,0,0,0
9-16 : 0,0,0,na,na,na,na,na
17-24 : 0,na,0,0,0,0na,na
25-32 : na,na,na,na,na,na,na,na

119
1-8 : na,na,na,na,na,na,na,na
9-16 : na,na,na,na,na,na,na,na
17-24 : na,na,na,na,na,87,0,81
25-32 : 98,87,94,89,0,92,69,92

99B

1-8 : 23,98,0,0,0,0,na,na
9-16 : na,na,na,na,na,na,na,na
17-24 : na,na,na,na,na,na,na,na
25-32 : na,na,na,na,na,na,na,na

I want to make sure that everything is in order prior to signing anything but am not quite sure how to interpret the signal strength numbers.

Thank you for your help!

[glennb]

I've never heard of any problems with anything going thru a multiswitch.

The dish itself has 4 outputs so it actually has a multiswitch built into it.

Your appointment window is from 8-12. Don't call DIRECTV at 12:05 demanding an explanation of where the f-ing installer is at !! You'd be surprised at how many people come here and describe how they blew a gasket because the installer wasn't there within the exact install window time. It probably meant a previous install took longer to get it right, or more had to be done than the work order described on one of the installs before you. I'd wait till 1:00 or so to call and inquire about it if no one has shown up yet. Do you have the name and phone number of the local install company doing the work ?

[Canis Lupus]

Hey DBS and welcome.

For the first part, a multi-switch is not required for your setup as the Slimline dish has a built-in 4-port switch. 2 lines will go to the HR20 and one each will go to the basic SD receivers (they're not DVRs correct)?

The only reason for the multiswitch would be if you planned to change either one or both of those basic receivers to 2-tuner DVRs (either SD or HD) later on. In the case of a multiswitch, 4 lines must run from the dish to the switch, so if I had my choice, and D* would do it, I'd opt for the multiswitch now. But not required.

For signal strength, you're gonna have some n/a on basically every SAT so don't worry bout those. You may get some 0s or low numbers on the 99b and/or 103a depending on whether you're in or near spotbeams for local HD channels coming from those SATs.

So what I'd focus on most is making sure your 103b, 101, 110, and 119 are as high as possible across the board, and then making sure that if you do get locals from the SAT, that they are coming in strong. Then you can sign :)

[Stuart Sweet]

:welcome_s to our little group!

Your signal strengths are going to vary compared to other people outside your local area of course. And Mr. Lupus is right, the N/As are not really an issue.

Please visit our HR20 Information Resources forum for some excellent PDFs prepared by one of our users (Milominderbinder2) on tips and tricks, as well as the excellent "sticky" at the top of this thread on Installation FAQs.

[DBSK2]

Thanks, Guys!

The two basics are not DVR's so I should be good to go.

When you say make sure signal strength on 103(b) is as high as it can be '...across the board...' -- can you define what the board is?

103B
1-8 : 83,83,83,0,0,0,0,0
9-16 : 0,0,0,na,na,na,na,na
17-24 : 0,na,0,0,0,0na,na
25-32 : na,na,na,na,na,na,na,na

Is across the board all the numbers on each 4 rows (between 1-32) or do I concentrate on just one row of numbers (i.e. 1-8)?

Thanks for dialing me in!

-Ken

[Ken984]

Thanks, Guys!

The two basics are not DVR's so I should be good to go.

When you say make sure signal strength on 103(b) is as high as it can be '...across the board...' -- can you define what the board is?

103B
1-8 : 83,83,83,0,0,0,0,0
9-16 : 0,0,0,na,na,na,na,na
17-24 : 0,na,0,0,0,0na,na
25-32 : na,na,na,na,na,na,na,na

Is across the board all the numbers on each 4 rows (between 1-32) or do I concentrate on just one row of numbers (i.e. 1-8)?

Thanks for dialing me in!

-Ken

On 103b 1-17 and 22 should get a good solid reading, the rest are N/A.

[DBSK2]

Thanks, Ken!

Well - things are getting off to a dubious start:

It's -3 Below Zero -- not sure how they can put a dish up in that weather but the Tech just called and indicated that he was putting together my equipment (he needed me to tell him what I ordered).

I told him two basic receivers and an HR-20 HD DVR -- he had no idea what 'HR-20' meant. I gave him the name of the Team Lead in the local office who said he would make sure the tech got an HR-20 that he had tucked away (this was last Saturday from their first cancellation due to snow). I had called yesterday to confirm the HR-20 again.

At any rate the Tech sounded like he was Jamaican and barely understood what I was saying -- I can just see me now trying to explain to him why the signal strengths aren't acceptable.

I could be wrong but at this point it's hold your breath '...oh boy...' time...

[Ken984]

Good Luck, hopefully his English won't get in the way of a quality install.

[shelland]

At any rate the Tech sounded like he was Jamaican and barely understood what I was saying -- I can just see me now trying to explain to him why the signal strengths aren't acceptable.

I could be wrong but at this point it's hold your breath '...oh boy...' time...

If you're in the Twin Cities, the install company is Premiere Communications. I'll just say.... good luck!

I've had 3 different DirecTV installs over a 2 year period. Those 3 installs have required a total of 10 installer visits to get everything working correctly.

Hopefully you have better luck!

[DBSK2]

If you're in the Twin Cities, the install company is Premiere Communications. I'll just say.... good luck!

I've had 3 different DirecTV installs over a 2 year period. Those 3 installs have required a total of 10 installer visits to get everything working correctly.

Hopefully you have better luck!

Yep - in the Twin Cities.

10 visits - yikes! Any advice on what to look out for?

I'm not going to sign for anything unless those signal strengths are in the 90's + and after verifying that a ground block is in place. Also going to make sure that Locals are working and HD DVR capability is functioning.

Other than that I'm not sure what else to check.

[litzdog911]

Yep - in the Twin Cities.

10 visits - yikes! Any advice on what to look out for?

I'm not going to sign for anything unless those signal strengths are in the 90's + and after verifying that a ground block is in place. Also going to make sure that Locals are working and HD DVR capability is functioning.

Other than that I'm not sure what else to check.

If you check all of those things you should be fine.

Also just be sure to check the quality of the dish installation .... make sure everything is solidly attached and nothing's loose.

[DBSK2]

If you check all of those things you should be fine.

Also just be sure to check the quality of the dish installation .... make sure everything is solidly attached and nothing's loose.

Thanks, litz.

Almost 1PM and not tech but I am staying patient.

Quick Question re: grounding

I have a cold water pipe on the side of the house where the Dish is going to be and where the cables will come into my home; however, I believe my house ground wire is on the other side of the house -- should the Dish be grounded to the other side of the house or is the cold water pipe (coming from ground block) going to be sufficient?

[DBSK2]

OK - they are here and it looks like the Dish is going to go on the side of the house where the house ground is so no worries there.

One question I do have -- is it common for the basic receiver runs to use the existing RG-59 Cable we have in the house for Cable TV?

They are going to run 2 new lines for the HD DVR but it sounds like they might be going to use the existing RG-59 for the Standard...?

[PicaKing]

They should be providing RG6 for all of your receivers

[Ken984]

Solid copper RG6 is what is recommended, most of mine is RG59 and i have no troubles with it, although my runs are all less than 50 feet.

[jgriffin7]

:welcome_s

So, how did it go? I'm just assuming since you've not posted in a few hours, you're busy playing with the new toys!

[DBSK2]

:welcome_s

So, how did it go? I'm just assuming since you've not posted in a few hours, you're busy playing with the new toys!

I wish!

The tech is still here (6+ hours) -- he has been in and out of very cold weather for quite some time.

When bringing the dual RG6 for HD up from the basement he missed once (so I now have a 'fake' panel).

On the Dish outside he tried mounting it in three separate locations on the side of my house -- each one prevented the dish from swiveling enough in one direction -- so I told him to put it on the front of the corner vs. the side. Unfortunately I now have three sets of (4) holes each into the wood siding where his first three attempts failed.

He would have had a loop in the dual RG6 for the HD runs in the basement if I hadn't helped him get it out before cabling everything up.

He finally got everything hooked up from a Dish and Ground perspective and:

1) One Standard TV has 0's across the board

2) Haven't checked the other Standard TV but I am staring in Horror at my signals on 103b:

3) 67,82,66,81,64,81,64,79
65,79,67,79,65,82
72

(Signal Strength is 67% - my understanding is that this should be 80% plus)

4) I have all zero's for 103a -- my understanding was at least one or two of these should show a 90+ for local HD's


There is no way he could have fine adjusted that Dish in this Cold -- I haven't shown him the 103b signals yet but there is no way I'm signing unless things improve to at least 80.

I feel bad for the guy - he is getting constantly nagged (called) about another job he has to do and a service call still tonight. It's 6:45PM in Minnesota and the Sun went down 1:45 Minutes ago -- it's cold and we have given him hot chocolate and a free dinner but still...

[PicaKing]

He drilled 12 holes in your house?? Thats totally unacceptable.

[DBSK2]

He drilled 12 holes in your house?? Thats totally unacceptable.

Yes...the wood siding (painted white) on the front corner of the house (garage).

I'm also getting a 771 error on one of my local OTA channels -- reading that this started happening to people after a recent software upgrade.

Not sure where I'm going to go from here -- maybe have him come back in the morning and re-align the dish so my 103b at least has 80's.

In terms of the holes in the house (siding) -- not even sure how to have DirecTV rectify that. I should say the local installer (Premier Communications)...

[PicaKing]

I would certainly not sign any paperwork that could indicate you were satisfied with the install--and I would write on there everything that you are unhappy with ( holes in house, poor signal, etc.).

As far as the house goes-- if it were me--I would insist that it be professionally repaired at their cost. Get estimates from carpenters, etc. and take photos of the damage.

[DBSK2]

I would certainly not sign any paperwork that could indicate you were satisfied with the install--and I would write on there everything that you are unhappy with ( holes in house, poor signal, etc.).

As far as the house goes-- if it were me--I would insist that it be professionally repaired at their cost. Get estimates from carpenters, etc. and take photos of the damage.

Thanks for the advice, Pica -- we are still relatively new (first time) Home Owners so I'm learning as I go here.

[DBSK2]

Audio synch horribly off on NBC (Chuck) - never saw this with OTA.

This is turning into quite the nightmare.

[simonkodousek]

Wow, sounds like quite a hassle. Good luck with the install!! :)

[Milominderbinder2]

From the HD DVR FAQ (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=76617):

What do I need to know about HD DVR ordering and installation?
→ Ordering Tips (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=839938#post839938) ● Installation Guide (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=67769)

- Craig

[DBSK2]

From the HD DVR FAQ (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=76617):

What do I need to know about HD DVR ordering and installation?
→ Ordering Tips (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=839938#post839938) ● Installation Guide (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=67769)

- Craig

I reviewed all of this prior to my install -- were you trying to indicate something else?

[DBSK2]

OK - He just left and I don't think he was happy with what I wrote on the satisfaction sheet - he didn't even have me sign anything (just said he was going to come back tomorrow and 'fix everything').

To top off everything above I don't see a ground block outside so that got added to the list.

One thing that is puzzling me about 103(b) -- I'm seeing the following:

1-8 70 - 83 - 70 - 82 - 67 - 82 - 67 - 80
9-16 69 - 81 - 69 - 81 - 70 - 83 - NA - NA
17-24 74 - NA - NA - NA -NA - 85 - NA - NA
25-32 NA - NA - NA - NA - NA -NA - NA - NA

(All of the odd numbered are lower than even -- is this an alignment issue or a cabling issue)?

Signal Strength on both tuners is only showing 70% for 103(b)

The other thing that was so challenging today was the language barrier -- he did not speak fluent english.

He kept telling me not to worry and "...you're getting a picture so everything is fine...".

When I tried to explain to him that my signal strength should be at least 80%+ across the board he either didn't understand me or just wanted to get out of here after being here for almost 9 hours...

[Ken984]

Could be a bad bbc or a bad connection, keep an eye on it when he starts "fixing" things.

[DBSK2]

Could be a bad bbc or a bad connection, keep an eye on it when he starts "fixing" things.

Will do -- he called and said he would be out this afternoon.

I did switch the BBC's and am seeing the same behavior (Odds = Low, Evens = High) so assuming that rules out the BBC's.

I did find this DirecTV forums (http://forums.directv.com/pe/action/forums/displaypost?postID=10291609) post that is almost identical to what I am seeing (only reversed -- Odds = High, Evens = Low) and the user said he fixed it himself by adjusting the azimuth on the Dish. I'll show this to the Tech and see what he thinks.

-Thanks

[K4SMX]

The odd/even disparity is because the dish is not completely aligned. It is highly likely that the installer does not have a signal meter which will directly read the 103(b) signal strengths. It would be very helpful if you hand him a wireless phone and relay the signal strength from one of the 103(b) transponders on the Signal Strength Meter while he tweaks the AZ and EL fine adjustments. Hopefully you can deal with the language barrier, since it's just numbers.

[PicaKing]

OK - He just left and I don't think he was happy with what I wrote on the satisfaction sheet - he didn't even have me sign anything (just said he was going to come back tomorrow and 'fix everything').



Does "fix everything" also mean the 12 holes in your house--which is about 11 too many??

[DBSK2]

Does "fix everything" also mean the 12 holes in your house--which is about 11 too many??

Good question - I'm going to not beat up the installer (tech) on this one and just work with the local office instead for some sort of carpentry / repair.

The tech came back out and we did the following:

-Tried fine manual adjustments (using wireless phone and watching signal strength on 1 Transponder) -- this made things worse

-So...he had left a loop in the RG6 right under the Dish -- he spliced into one cable here and using his calibration equipment he did a much better job of aligning things. I'm a tad concerned about there being a barrel connector on one of the HD RG6 lines now but if my signal strengths stay where they are I guess I'll be fine:

[ 1-8 ] 85 - 83 - 83 - 82 - 81 - 80 - 82 - 82
[ 8-16] 82 - 80 - 82 - 82 - 83 - 83 - NA - NA
[17-24] 90 - NA - NA - NA - NA - 90 - NA - NA

Transponder 1 on 103(b) went up from 67% to 85% on both Tuners so I guess that is good.

Now if I could clear up the Audio Synch issues that appear to be happening to others as well all would be good with the world.... :)

My heartfelt thanks to everyone who has weighed in on this thread and helped this raw beginner through his families first Satellite install.

[sharksfan]

You are going to have issues when it rains/snows/ices/etc. My 103b readings are in the mid to upper 90's.

[PicaKing]

Yeah--I hate to say it--but those numbers are a bit low. You will be much more prone to rain fade and loss of signal during snow, etc. When you contact the installation company and are dealing with the house issue, I would ask for a supervisor and insist that a senior technician come out to correct the install and get thise signal levels up where they should be.

[Milominderbinder2]

For anyone with numbers that low on 103(b) or now 103(c)...

The Ka band cannot survive even a heavy cloudiness let alone rain with those numbers.

You need an alignment.

- Craig

[DBSK2]

Thanks, Guys - continuing to learn as I go.

I'll work on getting a Senior Tech out in addition to the 'house repairs'.

Just sending the local installer a picture of the 12 'oops' holes and how the ground block and cable junction box were left should be enough to get some corrective action going.

I have a feeling that staying on top of this (while a bit of a hassle) now will pay dividends in the long run per your points about signal fade during inclemenet weather.

[bonscott87]

The odd/even disparity is because the dish is not completely aligned. It is highly likely that the installer does not have a signal meter which will directly read the 103(b) signal strengths. It would be very helpful if you hand him a wireless phone and relay the signal strength from one of the 103(b) transponders on the Signal Strength Meter while he tweaks the AZ and EL fine adjustments. Hopefully you can deal with the language barrier, since it's just numbers.

If one has 90+ on all sats but on 101 90+ on evens and low to 0 on odds indicate bad alignment or just a bad LNB?

[Canis Lupus]

I think I've seen mentioned that a small disparity in numbers between the 2 tuners is alignment, where a drastic disparity points more likely to the LNB.

EDIT: Sorry bonscott - misread your post. See K4SMX below :)

If one has 90+ on all sats but on 101 90+ on evens and low to 0 on odds indicate bad alignment or just a bad LNB?

[Canis Lupus]

Sorry it's been a hassle for you, but you're right to stay with it. You've made it this far so you might as well see it through. Sorry I didn't respond sooner about "across the board". What I meant by that is basically getting your signal meters as high as possible across all of the satellites - not so much an individual transponder as much as trying to hit at least 90%, if you can, on all your satellite signal meters. I think most will agree here that if you can hit, say 92%, on the 101 SAT, there's no reason your 103c (formerly 103b) can't be just as high, or close to it. A good alignment should bring all of your satellites to close to the same strength. That's what you're looking for.

Thanks, Guys - continuing to learn as I go.

I'll work on getting a Senior Tech out in addition to the 'house repairs'.

Just sending the local installer a picture of the 12 'oops' holes and how the ground block and cable junction box were left should be enough to get some corrective action going.

I have a feeling that staying on top of this (while a bit of a hassle) now will pay dividends in the long run per your points about signal fade during inclemenet weather.

[K4SMX]

If one has 90+ on all sats but on 101 90+ on evens and low to 0 on odds indicate bad alignment or just a bad LNB?
It's definitely not alignment. It probably could be something other than the LNB, but that's the most likely perp. Bad/loose connectors can do odd things that don't necessarily make sense. Then there's multi-switches. Even cables can be screwy on only certain satellite tp's, especially if they've got hidden cable TV splitters, diplexers, etc. The only sure-fire way to troubleshoot something is by complete elimination or replacement with known-good actors of each possible perp on a systematic basis.

[bonscott87]

It's definitely not alignment. It probably could be something other than the LNB, but that's the most likely perp. Bad/loose connectors can do odd things that don't necessarily make sense. Then there's multi-switches. Even cables can be screwy on only certain satellite tp's, especially if they've got hidden cable TV splitters, diplexers, etc. The only sure-fire way to troubleshoot something is by complete elimination or replacement with known-good actors of each possible perp on a systematic basis.

Yea I did that. I disconnected all switches and tried each of the 4 cables separately to a single receiver and got the same results on each cable and on multiple receivers. Thus I figured it was an LNB problem. And on my new slimline I just got to replace the crud AT9 LNB that went bad. Ugggggg.

[K4SMX]

Yea I did that. I disconnected all switches and tried each of the 4 cables separately to a single receiver and got the same results on each cable and on multiple receivers. Thus I figured it was an LNB problem. And on my new slimline I just got to replace the crud AT9 LNB that went bad. Ugggggg.
Well that's sort of the way it is with electronics: if there's gonna be a problem, it's usually either DOA, or fails shortly thereafter. Sorry that happened to you.

We really need to line up a good source for replacement Slimline LNB's. It's kind of ridiculous that you have to buy the whole dish just to get your hands on a spare LNB. It's one item I'm kind of leery of buying on eBay when they occasionally become available, because it's not always that easy to figure out exactly what brand LNB or what revision of it you're buying.

[waynebtx]

:welcome_s it can only get better dont let it get to you.