View Full Version : Hockey Night in Canada HD question
bosco10021
12-08-07, 06:40 PM
Tonight I see that NESN has the Bruins / Toronto game in HD (originating from the Air Canada Centre).
My question to Directv / Satelliteracer is, if NESN is able to get an HD feed out of Toronto for broadcast to Directv why can't Directv get the Hockey Night in Canada games in HD?
If a RSN can do, it it seems like Directv should be able to do it .
Well ???
Mocco71
12-08-07, 08:03 PM
Tonight I see that NESN has the Bruins / Toronto game in HD (originating from the Air Canada Centre).
My question to Directv / Satelliteracer is, if NESN is able to get an HD feed out of Toronto for broadcast to Directv why can't Directv get the Hockey Night in Canada games in HD?
If a RSN can do, it it seems like Directv should be able to do it .
Well ???
Would love to know, but I think that Satracer gave up on us. Would also like to see the Pens/Canucks game in HD, but FSN-Pitt is not picking up the HD feed from Canada like Boston did.
wilbur_the_goose
12-09-07, 05:18 AM
Mocco - he didn't give up on us.
Tonight I see that NESN has the Bruins / Toronto game in HD (originating from the Air Canada Centre).
My question to Directv / Satelliteracer is, if NESN is able to get an HD feed out of Toronto for broadcast to Directv why can't Directv get the Hockey Night in Canada games in HD?
If a RSN can do, it it seems like Directv should be able to do it . Well ???
You are talking about two totally different production/distribution methods here, Bosco.
NESN was doing their own HD production to broadcast from Toronto back to Boston. D* then picks up NESN HD's feed and provides to it us. NESN was NOT using the CBC video.
The CBC HD feed is done via fibre optic only to Toronto, Montreal, and a few other larger cities for OTA broadcast/cable TV in those cities.
(1.) D* would either need to pick that feed up via antenna in the Buffalo/Niagara or Detroit region (from the Toronto or Windsor CBC HD affiliates) and uplink it so we could see it, or
(2.) get CBC to uplink their HD feed via satellite for D* to get it or allow D* to grab the fibre feed within Canada and uplink it. The 2nd option would be very costly. Due to the way that CBC provides the HD feed currently within Canada, I think it will be some time until we see CBC HNIC HD feeds. In other words, once CBC starts providing the HD feed to more parts of Canada, it will probably be done via satellite, which in turn D* can more easily grab and provide to us for NHL CI.
The question about FSN Pittsburgh's Pens/Canucks game is different. FSN Pittsburgh, like most RSNs, produce only HOME games in HD (some do ALL home games in HD and some only do SOME home games in HD). Best guess is that it is a money issue... getting the HD production equipment to an out of town game and sending the HD feed back home isn't cheap. NESN does do just about all (if not all) home and away Bruins games in HD. They seem to be the exception for most RSNs currently. I look forward to the day that MSG and FSN NY do away games (outside the NY metro area, in other words, not b/w the 3 NY area NHL teams) in HD.
TheRatPatrol
12-09-07, 12:06 PM
You are talking about two totally different production/distribution methods here, Bosco.
NESN was doing their own HD production to broadcast from Toronto back to Boston. D* then picks up NESN HD's feed and provides to it us. NESN was NOT using the CBC video.
The CBC HD feed is done via fibre optic only to Toronto, Montreal, and a few other larger cities for OTA broadcast/cable TV in those cities.
(1.) D* would either need to pick that feed up via antenna in the Buffalo/Niagara or Detroit region (from the Toronto or Windsor CBC HD affiliates) and uplink it so we could see it, or
(2.) get CBC to uplink their HD feed via satellite for D* to get it or allow D* to grab the fibre feed within Canada and uplink it. The 2nd option would be very costly. Due to the way that CBC provides the HD feed currently within Canada, I think it will be some time until we see CBC HNIC HD feeds. In other words, once CBC starts providing the HD feed to more parts of Canada, it will probably be done via satellite, which in turn D* can more easily grab and provide to us for NHL CI.
The question about FSN Pittsburgh's Pens/Canucks game is different. FSN Pittsburgh, like most RSNs, produce only HOME games in HD (some do ALL home games in HD and some only do SOME home games in HD). Best guess is that it is a money issue... getting the HD production equipment to an out of town game and sending the HD feed back home isn't cheap. NESN does do just about all (if not all) home and away Bruins games in HD. They seem to be the exception for most RSNs currently. I look forward to the day that MSG and FSN NY do away games (outside the NY metro area, in other words, not b/w the 3 NY area NHL teams) in HD.
I wonder how the 2 Candian satellite companys get their CBC HD feeds then, via fiber or OTA?
I think once FSN gets their uplink center in Houston upgrade project done we'll hopefully see more away games in HD.
iceturkee
12-09-07, 12:38 PM
you guys really want to see don cherry in glorious HD? catch the suit he was wearing saturday night.....even gaudy by his standards? i nearly threw up just seeing it in SD, not real sure i could handle HD!
Satelliteracer
12-09-07, 12:42 PM
How did HNIC go last night...any interruptions?
JMartinko
12-09-07, 12:51 PM
How did HNIC go last night...any interruptions?
I didn't see any, it seemed like it went OK, but I think I read in one of the threads that someone saw an interruption between games 1 and 2. I watched 'some' of the between game show and didn't see a problem, but I didn't have it on the entire time, maybe someone else saw it and can report. It was always on when I switched to watch it, but I didn't see the first 10 minutes of the second game so I could have missed something. I did watch most of the post game show after the Vancouver game and D* stayed with the feed the entire time. There was a great interview with Sidney Crosby on the aftergame show which was well worth watching. Thanks to D* for letting us watch that.
joebbaseball
12-09-07, 02:18 PM
I didn't see any, it seemed like it went OK, but I think I read in one of the threads that someone saw an interruption between games 1 and 2. I watched 'some' of the between game show and didn't see a problem, but I didn't have it on the entire time, maybe someone else saw it and can report. It was always on when I switched to watch it, but I didn't see the first 10 minutes of the second game so I could have missed something. I did watch most of the post game show after the Vancouver game and D* stayed with the feed the entire time. There was a great interview with Sidney Crosby on the aftergame show which was well worth watching. Thanks to D* for letting us watch that.
I watched 95% of it, didn't see any problems. Watched the whole broadcast between games, no interuptions. Hopeing this will be a good sign of things to come.
Joe
Directv has access to SNET HD, TSN HD, and CBC HD without using fiber.
You are talking about two totally different production/distribution methods here, Bosco.
NESN was doing their own HD production to broadcast from Toronto back to Boston. D* then picks up NESN HD's feed and provides to it us. NESN was NOT using the CBC video.
The CBC HD feed is done via fibre optic only to Toronto, Montreal, and a few other larger cities for OTA broadcast/cable TV in those cities.
(1.) D* would either need to pick that feed up via antenna in the Buffalo/Niagara or Detroit region (from the Toronto or Windsor CBC HD affiliates) and uplink it so we could see it, or
(2.) get CBC to uplink their HD feed via satellite for D* to get it or allow D* to grab the fibre feed within Canada and uplink it. The 2nd option would be very costly. Due to the way that CBC provides the HD feed currently within Canada, I think it will be some time until we see CBC HNIC HD feeds. In other words, once CBC starts providing the HD feed to more parts of Canada, it will probably be done via satellite, which in turn D* can more easily grab and provide to us for NHL CI.
The question about FSN Pittsburgh's Pens/Canucks game is different. FSN Pittsburgh, like most RSNs, produce only HOME games in HD (some do ALL home games in HD and some only do SOME home games in HD). Best guess is that it is a money issue... getting the HD production equipment to an out of town game and sending the HD feed back home isn't cheap. NESN does do just about all (if not all) home and away Bruins games in HD. They seem to be the exception for most RSNs currently. I look forward to the day that MSG and FSN NY do away games (outside the NY metro area, in other words, not b/w the 3 NY area NHL teams) in HD.
Actually fiber is cheaper then satellite. There are very few backhaul feeds on satellite. 90% of backhaul feeds are done on fiber. The biggest problem is the availability. These fibers are used all the time. You have to book it well in advance.
The only other RSN that does all the games in HD is YES network. They do Yankees and Nets games. I know they had to book fiber for 2008 Yankee season early this year, before even 2007 season started. They do not have any hockey however.
Directv has access to SNET HD, TSN HD, and CBC HD without using fiber.
Please stop. You have no idea, how professional transmission is done. You can't use BEV or Starchoice feeds. They need to be clean feeds. Not overcompressed consumer feeds.
I wonder how the 2 Candian satellite companys get their CBC HD feeds then, via fiber or OTA?
I think once FSN gets their uplink center in Houston upgrade project done we'll hopefully see more away games in HD.
Canadian Sat companies get their feeds on fiber.
Please stop. You have no idea, how professional transmission is done. You can't use BEV or Starchoice feeds. They need to be clean feeds. Not overcompressed consumer feeds.
Clean feeds like those on CanCom or clean like those on ku band such as today's Calgary-Chicago SNET WEST HD (which as an aside looked like ****) game and every and I mean every SNET HD game has been on this year?
Or clean OTA feeds like CBC HD that are available cross border?
Also, are you implying that InDemand, Dishnetwork, and Directv get Canadian SD feeds including ppv via fiber?
I may not know much, but I know some.
bwaldron
12-09-07, 06:38 PM
Please stop. You have no idea, how professional transmission is done. You can't use BEV or Starchoice feeds. They need to be clean feeds. Not overcompressed consumer feeds.
True, though it should be noted that the sat feeds used by Star Choice on the Anik birds are used as a source by many Canadian cable companies.
Cancom (Starchoice) is the "master feed" for alot of Canadian cable stations, including TSN & Rogers Sportsnet.
Rogers Sportsnet HD is also distributed via satellite.
turbo_oasis
12-09-07, 09:31 PM
I saw the HNIC broadcast last night (Saturday Night) in whelming SD....and if my TV had to show Don Cherry's coat in HD it wouldda blew up.
Clean feeds like those on CanCom or clean like those on ku band such as today's Calgary-Chicago SNET WEST HD (which as an aside looked like ****) game and every and I mean every SNET HD game has been on this year?
Or clean OTA feeds like CBC HD that are available cross border?
Also, are you implying that InDemand, Dishnetwork, and Directv get Canadian SD feeds including ppv via fiber?
I may not know much, but I know some.
What I mean by clean feeds is a backhaul high bitrate feed.
Most feeds that US sat companies get are on fiber. HD clean feeds account for about 90% and SD feeds about 80%. Also almost 100% sports seen in NA from Europe come thru transoceanic fiber. They very rarely use satellite.
Ya, the ku band SNET HD feeds would qualify as clean in that case by that definition. DTV uses OTA source for many of its locals I believe.
As Mars said, CanCom(SC) is the first generation feed for many providers.
I think we are closer to being on the same page than you think.
Ya, the ku band SNET HD feeds would qualify as clean in that case by that definition. DTV uses OTA source for many of its locals I believe.
As Mars said, CanCom(SC) is the first generation feed for many providers.
I think we are closer to being on the same page than you think.
D* uses OTA only for back up for locals. They always try to have direct links from the stations. IF SC is the feed for some providers, then I would rather stay with SD, because another level of compression would make it look horrible. D* feeds for RSN's are all pretty much coming on fiber, except few that have high data rate on satellite.
Sort of off topic, but does anyone else often see the little white blinking cursor in the upper right corner of most CBC HNIC broadcasts? No idea why its there. If not, check this Saturday and see if you get it.
I have seen this before, I think it means the next break coming up is a local break for affiliates.
I have seen this before, I think it means the next break coming up is a local break for affiliates.
I assume you must be kidding. Why would CBC put a little blinking cursor on the screen to tell affiliates when a commercial break is coming?
bosco10021
12-10-07, 09:46 PM
The little blinking square in the upper right corner is a queue to let stations know that a station break / commerical is upcoming...at this case the first stoppage in play.
This method has been used in television for many years.
Satster
12-10-07, 10:29 PM
NHL channel needs to step in here to help us out by showing Canadian HD feeds instead of US RSN feeds. Wouldn't solve the HNIC issue, but at least would get us more games we would normally not access in HD.
They have shown a couple TSN HD and will be showing a couple more in December.
TheRatPatrol
12-11-07, 06:00 AM
NHL channel needs to step in here to help us out by showing Canadian HD feeds instead of US RSN feeds. Wouldn't solve the HNIC issue, but at least would get us more games we would normally not access in HD.
Wonder if NHLN could pick up some HNIC feeds on Saturdays in HD? That would be kind of nice.
They have shown a couple TSN HD and will be showing a couple more in December.
Cool I'll be watching.
NHL channel needs to step in here to help us out by showing Canadian HD feeds instead of US RSN feeds. Wouldn't solve the HNIC issue, but at least would get us more games we would normally not access in HD.
Canadian HD feeds do not cover all the NHL games. The mainly cover Canadian teams games. Channels like Rogers Sportsnet many times actually use feeds from US RSN's when showing US teams.
Where did you get an idea that they have more HD feeds there. The amount of HD games covered in Canada does not even come close to what US RSN channels do.
I don't see where he says that Canada has more HD than US RSNs. He is just saying that by using also CDN HD feeds, it would mean more HD games on DTV which is accurate.
As an aside, on Rogers SNET WEST HD, the 8 Oilers games that they will have covered in HD from Oct to Dec 27, none of them were in HD in the US. DItto all of the HD games that were on CBC HD for the Oilers.
I think your point is that regional channels will share some/most cameras feeds. But, they always have their own truck and crew working the games.
Steveknj
12-11-07, 11:37 AM
Does D* (or CI, not sure) have it contracted out to use the PEI feeds for HNIC games? And if HD is only available in the major Canadian markets, could this be why it's not available to D*? Just something I thought about as a reason we aren't getting the HD feeds.
And I agree, seeing Don Cherry's suits in HD might force me to reconfigure my video settings on my HDTV to include a Don Cherry only setting.
knives of ice
12-11-07, 02:06 PM
Canadian HD feeds do not cover all the NHL games. The mainly cover Canadian teams games. Channels like Rogers Sportsnet many times actually use feeds from US RSN's when showing US teams.
Where did you get an idea that they have more HD feeds there. The amount of HD games covered in Canada does not even come close to what US RSN channels do.
Rogers is only showing canadian teams this year, and they are doing nearly all the broadcasts in HD as well. in the past you are right they did use some US feeds last year, but none that i've ever seen this year.
Canada doesn't have more HD feeds overall, but they do have better broadcasts and i don't think there is any RSN doing broadcasts from canada in HD, aside from maybe NESN.
i'll just keep subbing to canadian sat just to get the hockey coverage regardless.
Satster
12-11-07, 02:41 PM
Canadian HD feeds do not cover all the NHL games. The mainly cover Canadian teams games. Channels like Rogers Sportsnet many times actually use feeds from US RSN's when showing US teams.
Where did you get an idea that they have more HD feeds there. The amount of HD games covered in Canada does not even come close to what US RSN channels do.
I know, but they do have some. According to NHL.com, here are the Canadian HD games that are available the rest of December.
Tue 12/11: Lightning-Canadiens TSN(HD), RDS(HD) - no US feeds listed
Thu 12/13: Canadiens-Flyers RDS(HD) - this one may be picking up the CSN-PH feed
Sat 12/15 Maple Leafs-Canadiens CBC(HD),RDS(HD) - HNIC, no US feeds, of course
Tue 12/18 Panthers-Canadiens RDS(HD) - no US feeds listed
Thu 12/20 Canadiens-Capitals RDS(HD) may be picking up CSN-DC
Thu 12/20 Maple Leafs-Lightning LEAFSTV(HD)
Sat 12/22 Canadiens-Thrashers RDS (HD), no US HD feeds
Sat 12/22 Maple Leafs-Panthers CBC(HD) HNIC, no US HD feeds
Sun 12/23 Canadiens-Stars RDS(HD), no us HD feeds
Wed 12/25 Leafs-Isles TSN(HD), NHLN-US, I guess both may be picking up FSN-NY
Thu 12/27 Canadiens-Lightning CbC(HD), RDS(HD) no US HD feed listed
Thu 12/27 FLames-Canucks CBS(HD), no us feed listed
Thu 12/27 Maple Leafs-Flyers LEAFS TV(HD) May be the CSN-PH feed
Fri 12/28 Canadiens-Panthers TSN(HD), RDS(HD), NHLN-US, no US HD feed listed
Sat 12/29 Rangers-Leafs CBC(HD), no US HD feed listed
Sat 12/29 Ducks-Flames CBC(HD) no US HD feed listed
Sun 12/30 Canadiens-Rangers RDS(HD) may be picking up MSG HD
Hope this helps.
The problem for NHLN is that they are doing most of their broadcasts on Wed and Fri, and availability of Canadian HD on those nights is limited. They could not do Monday or Tuesday, since Vs has exclusive rights. Ideally, they could give us HNIC. One can hope.
CBC, Rogers Sportsnet & LeafsTV never use US RSN produced telecasts, their HD telecasts are 100% their own.
TSN produces almost every game they air, only exception is they will use Versus/NBC feeds from time to time, but will produce their own intermission.
Rogers SportsNet HD the rest of December (games not listed in above list):
Please note that SportsNet doesn't have rights to show any US vs US NHL games.
All games are produced by Rogers SportsNet itself.
Tuesday, December 11 5:30 PM MST Calgary Flames vs. Florida Panthers SNET WEST HD - no US HD
Wednesday, December 12 4:30 PM PST Vancouver Canucks vs. Anaheim Ducks SNET PACIFIC HD - also on FSN PT HD
Tuesday, December 13 7:30 PM EST Ottawa Senators vs. Pittsburgh Penguins SNET EAST HD - also on FSN PITT HD
Tuesday, December 18 7:00 PM EST Toronto Maple Leafs vs. Carolina Hurricanes SNET ONTARIO HD - no US HD
Tuesday, December 18 7:00 PM EST Ottawa Senators vs. Boston Bruins SNET EAST HD - also on NESN HD
Friday, December 21 7:00 PM MST New Jersey Devils vs. Edmonton Oilers SNET WEST HD - no US HD
Sunday, December 23 6:00 PM MST New Jersey Devils vs. Calgary Flames SNET WEST HD - no US HD
Thursday, December 27 7:00 PM MST Anaheim Ducks vs. Edmonton Oilers SNET WEST HD - no US HD
Monday, December 31 6:00 PM PST Vancouver Canucks vs. Calgary Flames SNET PACIFIC HD - no US HD
CKNAV - Ya, so to say that most Canadian HD feeds come from US RSNs is totally inaccurate. OR to quote how you responded to me earlier in his thread, "Please stop. You have no idea ..."
I know, but they do have some. According to NHL.com, here are the Canadian HD games that are available the rest of December.
Sat 12/29 Rangers-Leafs CBC(HD), no US HD feed listed
Sun 12/30 Canadiens-Rangers RDS(HD) may be picking up MSG HD
MSG is doing both games.. the Sunday game in HD. Saturday game in SD.
bwaldron
12-12-07, 03:36 PM
CKNAV - Ya, so to say that most Canadian HD feeds come from US RSNs is totally inaccurate. OR to quote how you responded to me earlier in his thread, "Please stop. You have no idea ..."
Absolutely correct.
(Of course, the Centre Ice package does show US RSN games, but not CBC/Sportsnet/TSN).
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