Advise on HD LOS issue

[rickak]

First off, thanks to everyone that helps out by posting on this forum. This is an awesome forum and I have learned alot.

I have been a DirecTV subscriber for years, with a single LNB dish pointing at 101. Recently I decided with all the new HD channels I would upgrade and get an HD DVR.

The installer came out Friday afternoon and immediately had a problem with a branch of my neighbors cottonwood tree blocking the 119 sat. He said it was really close, so he would have their lead tech come out and give a 2nd opinion. Yesterday the LT came out and said they could not place the dish on the house, due to the lack of LOS to the 119 sat. He did however find a spot, just 10 ft east of the southeast corner of the house in my front yard where he said they could set a pole and get everything fine. The problem is, as appealing as HD is, having a pole with a big dish on it in my front yard is not appealing at all, and I bet the tree will grow next season too :eek2: . This location was all determined by old fashioned compass and eyeball by the way.

I have a good unobstructed view of the other sats.

From my research on this forum, it sounds like not having the 119 is livable, I have no local channels on that sat and I can trade off the loss of a few HD channels there to get all the new HD programming from Ka. Sounds like there may be channel guide updated issues, but I also see there's workarounds for that.

For now, my plan is to try and have the installers put the dish on the corner of the house (just 10' from where they would mount it on a pole), and live without the 119 if I have to. If the installers will not do that, then I will just do it myself. I am guessing that the 119 will be fine, at least maybe until the leaves come out on the tree next spring.

I could also pick up the 119 from the back corner of my lot, and use multiple dishes, but I'm not sure that is worth the trouble given the lack of interesting programming on 119. Also, it sounds like 119 is going away anyway next year?

I'm curious what others would do if they were in my shoes.

Thanks,
Rick

[simonkodousek]

I would ask the neighbors if they could cut down the branch causing the LOS issue. :)

[K4SMX]

You're probably right about the corner of the house which is only 10 feet from the proposed front yard pole mount. If they won't at least try that, you can buy and install your own dish, and you can put it where you want it, 119 or not. It's not rocket science like the other end of the signal chain. We can help you with the "no 119" alignment problem, too. It's not the end of the world.

Welcome to DBSTalk! It was a pleasure to read your first post.

[Miller_Time]

My installer just left after not being able to get LOS for 119. I have to say I'm pretty bummed. I have been looking forward to bringing TW's equipment back to them tomorrow and telling them what to do with it! ;)

My wife was home when he got there(I was about to leave work to be there myself). She called to tell me the news and said they would send a supervisor out for a second opinion. I asked that the supervisor call me on my cell so that I would be sure to be there when he came. Had a similar problem a couple of years ago when we moved into the house and brought our E* with us. The supervisor showed up when I was at work and we were out of luck.

I'm really hoping that we can get something done as TW's HD content leaves ALOT to be desired.

[Canis Lupus]

This is the part you want to stay focused on. Keep pushing to make sure you can meet up. This way you can make sure they actually DO come, and you can look at your options, including even a 2nd dish. But I'd start with making sure that Super does actually show up.

I asked that the supervisor call me on my cell so that I would be sure to be there when he came.

[Miller_Time]

This is the part you want to stay focused on. Keep pushing to make sure you can meet up. This way you can make sure they actually DO come, and you can look at your options, including even a 2nd dish. But I'd start with making sure that Super does actually show up.

I'm definitely not giving this up without a fight. I'll keep you guys posted.

[glennb]

I wouldn't be worried about putting a dish on a pole in the front yard.

If the installers won't do it buy your own dish from a dealer on EBAY and install it yourself.
It comes with set-up and alignment instructions.

[raoul5788]

I have read numerous posts here and on Satguys with just this issue of not being able to see 119. The tech in each case would not do the install because it could come back later as a bad install and they would be charged back on it. Good luck!

[K4SMX]

Have we become a nation of wimps? Unless one is physically impaired, you can buy and install your own Slimline dish in the same location where you currently have LOS. If it's a new install or you want to find a better spot for a 5 LNB dish, there are plenty of folks here who can give you enough information to make your own accurate LOS determination.

Sure, "free" installs are great. Often they're worth what you pay for them, too. The time and money to install your own 5 LNB dish is rather trivial compared to the equipment investment of a normal HD-DVR/multiple receiver installation.

[Canis Lupus]

+1 and BTW if I could go and help a physically impaired person to be able to do it themselves in my area, I would.

Have we become a nation of wimps? Unless one is physically impaired, you can buy and install your own Slimline dish in the same location where you currently have LOS. If it's a new install or you want to find a better spot for a 5 LNB dish, there are plenty of folks here who can give you enough information to make your own accurate LOS determination.

Sure, "free" installs are great. Often they're worth what you pay for them, too. The time and money to install your own 5 LNB dish is rather trivial compared to the equipment investment of a normal HD-DVR/multiple receiver installation.

[rickak]

Well thanks for the replies all. After hearing my neighbor say he doesnt care about the pole in the yard (and it's right by his driveway, and is a good neighbor), I decided I would go ahead and do that. If and when the 119 goes away next year, I'll just move the thing myself to a better location and chop down the pole.

I used the "sun test" the other day to get the azimuth and infered the elevation, and it appears the tech was correct. That 10' does make the difference in LOS. I also saw it's not just a branch, but quite a bundle of them.

So the tech is coming in the morning to install. Hopefully the story will end well. It is supposed to be snowing though :(. Can they set the pole when it's snowing?

By the way Stew, I dont think I am a wimp. i see you are a fellow HAM? You want to compare the amount aluminum on our houses offline? :lol:

Thanks,
Rick

[litzdog911]

rickak ...
It would be more work but you might be able to use multiple dishes at different locations on your house to "see" all of the satellites. See the link in my signature below.

[K4SMX]

.....By the way Stew, I dont think I am a wimp......
Pardon me, this is your thread, but that comment wasn't directed at anyone in particular. I keep seeing so many of these posts where after waiting for days or weeks for an appointment, some installer or other finally shows up and tells a poster that he won't do an install for this or that reason, but then there seems to be a general reluctance to figure out what can and needs to be done and roll up sleeves if you get a "no 119, no install" from the local HSP.

Mpeg4 HD reception is not a 119 LOS issue, and IMO there's no need whatsoever for 119 reception to align a Slimline for the mpeg4 HD satellites, which can be done using your own receiver. Of course, you've got to buy your own dish on-line and the receiver either on-line or at a retail store. With the lack of good deals from DirecTV these days, that's no longer the financial issue it once was for D-I-Y'ers.

[rickak]

In the end, I ended up installing everything myself. After the 5th day of staying home and either having the appt cancelled or being told why they couldnt do the pole mount that day, I cancelled the whole thing, got a DVR from Best Buy and a dish off of ebay. I put it on the corner of the house where I was told it would not work. Other than mounting the tilt bolts wrong (I put the nuts on the inside towards the dish so they were unaccessible for peaking), it went easily. I used a wireless webcam pointed at my TV tuned to the signal strength screen. Then took my laptop out to the dish and peaked the dish.

The hard part was getting the receiver authorized. When first authorized, I was getting nothing but the HD channels. When I tuned to any SD channel, I would get the 721 error. It took until the following day, after doing numerous resets and re-authorizations on the website, that it finally started working.

Anyway, here are the readings I am getting:

Txp 101 110 119 99b 103a 103b

1 96 na na 97 0 95
2 95 na na 0 0 92
3 96 na na 0 98 93
4 97 na na 0 0 87
5 95 na na 91 0 91
6 99 na na 0 0 89
7 95 na na na na 91
8 99 96 na na na 87
9 95 na na na na 92
10 95 90 na na na 89
11 96 na na na na 92
12 100 96 na na na 86
13 95 na na na na 92
14 99 na na na na 90
15 95 na na na 0 na
16 99 na na na 0 na
17 95 na na na 95 95
18 0 na na na 0 na
19 96 na na na 0 na
20 0 na na na 0 na
21 96 na na na 0 na
22 100 na 74 na 0 94
23 95 na 0 na 0 na
24 99 na 72 na 100 na
25 95 na 0 na na na
26 82 na 74 na na na
27 96 na 77 na na na
28 0 na 74 na na na
29 96 na 0 na na na
30 100 na 73 na na na
31 95 na 95 na na na
32 100 na 75 na na na

The 119 does appear pretty low, except for that 95 in there on #31. Perhaps it's getting attenuated by the tree. I am not sure what channels are on those low transponders. Is there a list somewhere that shows what channels are carried on what transponders? I have looked on lyngsat.com and couldn't find that information.

These numbers look good to you guys? I am getting all the channels.

Thanks,
Rick

[litzdog911]

Your readings on 119 are a bit low, which could be due to the trees. Keep an eye on them, especially on a windy day. Might have problems in the spring when the leaves come out.

[LI-SVT]

Due to a tree I only have TP levels of 40-45 for the 119. On a clear day those channels are watchable but go away in the rain. I can live with this. Someday those channels will be on the higher birds any way.

[gtheel]

Question for the OP or anyone who has done a self-install with an MPEG4 receiver or DVR: Do you have to authorize the receiver (or do anything that triggers any lease commitment) to measure the signal levels?

I've had similar LOS claims and am leaning towards doing it myself, but don't want to be locked in to a multi-year commitment if I don't end up with acceptable LOS.

Thanks all!

[Canis Lupus]

It needs to be completely up and running before you authorize it, so you're good to go to check your LOS before you would authorize it.

Question for the OP or anyone who has done a self-install with an MPEG4 receiver or DVR: Do you have to authorize the receiver (or do anything that triggers any lease commitment) to measure the signal levels?

I've had similar LOS claims and am leaning towards doing it myself, but don't want to be locked in to a multi-year commitment if I don't end up with acceptable LOS.

Thanks all!

[grafixfreak]

I had a similar issue. I had made an appointment for an install in early July. A subcontractor came out to my residence. I live in a townhouse so I was limited to where I could put a dish. The installer explained to me that I had a LOS issue so I stopped the install(he also told me that by September all HD would be on new satellite so I wouldnt have an LOS issue later on). After thinking about it, I decided to reschedule(a few weeks later) and decided to deal with LOS issue. I just wanted to get rid of the CABLE MAFIA (Comcast). It was installed and things work well- HD channels look good. I do not receive 2 channels-ESPN2HD and HDNet-its do-able. On another note, I did have a Directv tech come out for an unrelated issue and mentioned that the subcontractor should have never installed the dish. I think they should leave it up to the customer as long as the customer understands the consequences. Im glad I went with the install...