For those fed up with Sync Issues

[JeffBowser]

We had an agreement - you ignore me, and I will ignore you. Stick to it.


This guy doesn't read his own posts - A fool finds no pleasure in understanding but delights in airing his own opinions.

[Greg Alsobrook]

got a pretty bad lip sync issue right now watching Talladega Nights on 521 (STZwHD)....

[poppo]

I didn't read the whole thread, but will make a few comments. I have noticed slight lip sync issues for years since first getting a HDTV. Of course those were due to the digital processing in the TV. Back then I purchased an A/V receiver with delay functions built in. From what I have read and from personal experience, video lagging audio is more noticeable than audio lagging video. So anyway, I have about 140ms delay set on my receiver and rarely notice any sync issues including the MPEG4 feeds.

[cartrivision]

From what I have read and from personal experience, video lagging audio is more noticeable than audio lagging video. So anyway, I have about 140ms delay set on my receiver and rarely notice any sync issues including the MPEG4 feeds.

Most sync issues that I have observed are audio lagging video (and I don't find those any less noticeable), but regardless, all your setup would do in those cases is make the lag even worse.

[sigma1914]

got a pretty bad lip sync issue right now watching Talladega Nights on 521 (STZwHD)....

Funny you mention this...EVERYTIME I've turned it on it appears to be out of sync, no matter which version of Starz. I even kept it on through the end till the next movie and there will be no sync issue. It's like the movie is the problem, weird.


On a side note, Dirty Jobs is on Discovery HD now & way off.

[Tom Robertson]

I didn't read the whole thread, but will make a few comments. I have noticed slight lip sync issues for years since first getting a HDTV. Of course those were due to the digital processing in the TV. Back then I purchased an A/V receiver with delay functions built in. From what I have read and from personal experience, audio lagging video is more noticeable than video lagging audio. So anyway, I have about 140ms delay set on my receiver and rarely notice any sync issues including the MPEG4 feeds.

<editied to fix bacward sync statement>

140ms, wow. I hadn't done or read any measured amounts people use as offsets so that mildly surprised me. After I considered it a bit, I shouldn't have been tho. And every AV combination will be different.

Anyway, thanks for the benchmark. That is handy to know as a starting point.

Happy Holidays!
Tom

[poppo]

Most sync issues that I have observed are audio lagging video (and I don't find those any less noticeable), but regardless, all your setup would do in those cases is make the lag even worse.

Ok, at first I thought I had it backward, but I almost always see the video lag the audio. This is normally due to the video processing the TV or other equipment does that takes time. Thus the audio is heard first. That is why the newer A/V receivers have the audio delay function. Personally I don't think I have ever seen the video precede the audio.

[Budget_HT]

Awesome analogy, I love it! :)

The Telephone company IS the provider, not the middleman. Perhaps you might want to find a better analogy to make your point.

Have you completely forgotten the problems of the 40s, 50s, and 60s, stretching into the early 70s about lipsync? I remember them vividly. Each time a station would add a new bit of audio or video processing to their plant, the problems could occur again, until the manufacturers finally worked out how to keep the sync universally and analogue became plug and play. They are just starting to do that with HD signals.

Lastly, what do you expect DIRECTV to do? Magically fix the providers' problems for them? If you were CNN, would you allow DIRECTV to come into your house and mess with your equipment to get it all working? :grin:

Every new HD channel will go thru the same set of growing pains. Just like every company the deploys a new version of Windows repeats the same learning curve of supporting it.

Have a very Merry Christmas, everyone!
Tom

I disagree on the telephone company role. They are a "middleman" in that they only provide connections between people and/or devices, which in turn provide and receive the content.

The telephone company has no control over the content or quality of the signals presented to its network. But they are accountable for signal quality degradation when passing through the network. Some years back, some long distance companies began using satellite paths for voice calls. The latency/delays were long enough to upset and confuse many customers, to the point where the long distance companies abandoned their plans to use satellite for voice calls.

I believe there are multiple contributing factors to audio/video sync problems for digital TV, whether HD or not. From my own OTA observations over the last 8 years, I know that local affiliates and networks have both had problems from time to time.

I know that the local broadcasters have some means of controlling the delivery timing of the audio signal to try and match up with delays caused by heavier-duty processing of the video signal. At one point, one local station here delayed the audio so much that it went beyond a threshold in several (but not all) brands and models of OTA HDTV tuners/receivers, causing them to lose the audio entirely. Several interested viewers like me provided feedback to the station engineers to help them learn just what was happening. In my case, I had one receiver that still had audio and one that lost it, until they reduced the "injected" audio delay enough for the audio to come back.

In addition to complications experienced by/at the program sources and intermediate stops in the delivery path, I suspect that there may be some bugs yet to be worked out for MPEG-2 to MPEG-4 transcoding. I would guess that the audio portion is susceptible to sync issues, but this is only a guess--I have no data.

It would be nice to be able to compare like programs/sources received via 2 delivery paths (e.g., cable and satellite or OTA and satellite) but right now my means are too limited to perform such comparisons.

We need each player in the supply chain to work toward eliminating possible sync issues in their respective domain. Even then, there could be issues at interface points that still need to be worked out.

DirecTV can only deliver to us that which was supplied to them. They definitely need to make sure their house is clean, but they have limited influence and no control over their suppliers.

Believe it or not, there has been much improvement in this A/V sync area over the 8 years that I have been watching and recording HDTV at home.

[poppo]

140ms, wow. I hadn't done or read any measured amounts people use as offsets so that mildly surprised me. After I considered it a bit, I shouldn't have been tho. And every AV combination will be different.

Anyway, thanks for the benchmark. That is handy to know as a starting point.

Happy Holidays!
Tom

Note, I changed my statement you quoted back because I thought it was backward. I have an older Sammy DLP and it has it's own considerable video delay. It probably takes 70-80ms to fix just that. The rest (boosting to 140ms) seems to take care of the other issues, and as I mentioned (at least to me) any extra audio delay is less noticable than not enough.

[ben arnold]

Lately, I've noticed pretty bad sync issues with the Food Network. Really obvious on Good Eats. Also notice it a lot when watching Man vs Wild on Discovery.

[JeffBowser]

Deadliest Catch was way outta whack last night, I noticed. Discovery is getting worse. Let's hope that means they are fooling with the switches and levers back behind that green curtain.

[Maruuk]

I've noticed more and more channels are getting badly out of sync. It's a frickin EPIDEMIC! "Elizabethtown" was unwatchable last night. It's happening all over, sometimes just a slight sync issue, sometimes very noticeable.

Is this DTV, is everybody getting the same sync slop, or could this be a local hardware issue with HR20/21s?

[retromzc]

FWIW, today I had the opportunity to compare sync issues on a few common channels of both DirecTv and Comcast. USA-HD out of sync on both carriers. Discovery-HD out of sync on both carriers. VS/GOLF way out of sync on both carriers. CNN-HD in sync on both carriers. Comcast does not carry FX-HD or Weather Channel HD which are both out of sync via DirecTv so I could not compare those two. This would lead me to believe that it is NOT a DirecTv problem, but rather a source problem since both of the carriers are showing the same problems on the same channels.

[Maruuk]

Thanks for checking up. It amazes me that so many of the source nets are putting out such a shoddy product to all their distributors.

[Matt9876]

362 TWCHD was way off this morning 1/2/08 7:30 AM est.

Heard Directv just purchased new mpeg4 encoders, Maybe that will help with some of the sync issues.

SD 362 was fine but HD was .5 sec off. Tried reset and bypassed sound system no fix on my end for the HD channel .

Matt

[pelley]

FWIW, today I had the opportunity to compare sync issues on a few common channels of both DirecTv and Comcast. USA-HD out of sync on both carriers.

I just asked a friend who has Verizon FIOS and he has not noticed any audio sync issues on USA-HD. The Weather Channel one is starting to really bug me. This channel has been on for a few months now. I figured they would have the kinks worked out by now.

[gregjones]

Keep in mind that seeing it out of sync on two different carriers means it is one of two possibilities:
the content provider is bad at the head end, or
your equipment is creating lag from both sources


We know some setups through receivers will create a sync issue due to delayed audio processing.

[ShapeGSX]

Keep in mind that seeing it out of sync on two different carriers means it is one of two possibilities:
the content provider is bad at the head end, or
your equipment is creating lag from both sources


We know some setups through receivers will create a sync issue due to delayed audio processing.

If the lag was due to equipment, it would be present on all channels.

[Mike Bertelson]

Mythbusters in HD "exploding port-a-potty" started out with horrible lip sync. But the commercials were dead-on.

Then sometime in the middle of the show, the audio sync ended up better than the start. I think that the problem is probably at the broadcaster's end. But it should be fixed, regardless.

We were watching the Mummers Parade on WGN.

The audio sync was at least 2 sec. off.

Just like your post, the commercials were dead on. I don't get it. :scratch:

Mike

[ShapeGSX]

We were watching the Mummers Parade on WGN.

The audio sync was at least 2 sec. off.


Considering that it was the mummers you were watching, it is quite possible that the mummers themselves were the source of the audio delay. :D

[texasbrit]

We were watching the Mummers Parade on WGN.

The audio sync was at least 2 sec. off.

Just like your post, the commercials were dead on. I don't get it. :scratch:

Mike


It's because the audio and video are coming separately from the mobile studio and they are out of sync when they are received at the station's broadcast facility. The commercials of course are generated locally at the station.
CNN HD has shown a similar problem over the past several weeks when showing a "split screen" - the video/audio of the person in the studio are OK but the feed from the person in the field is out of sync.
As one of the posters said, there is nothing DirecTV can do about either of these situations.

[ddrumman2004]

I was watching the Science Channel HD last night......Survivorman to be exact....and about 3/4s way through the show, the audio got out of sync with the video. Switched to the SD feed and it was spot on. This is the first time I noticed this on the Science channel HD. Happily History HD showed no signs of this.

Very annoying to say the least.

[8bobcat8]

Well I'm glad this thread is resurrected.

I too have these sync issues and having had D* since the beginning, this will be the second time I'll have to wait for a fix. It is darn frustrating to be paying this amount of money for an immature service and technology.

If one considers the vast amounts of money that has been spent on this technology it would almost seem as if nobody even thought or cares about this as a problem.

In the beginning, the lips trailed the words. Compared to today, that was a livable situation. Mind you, D* NEVER admitted even the slightest of problems. They would blame it on YOUR equipment and have you do all sorts of horse hockey (change this, check that etc) to make ready to tell you they couldn't help.

From what I recall, D* had human tweakers (as mentioned above) that would real-time adjust things to provide a better sync. When things would get out of whack, I often wondered who was asleep at the wheel.

So here we are again only the problem is worse because now it would seem that the most frequent issue is the lips lead the words. If you are hard of hearing as I am and you tend to read lips, you are out of luck. At least in the early days, you could read lips and not have to peg the volume.

Interestingly, the D* owner's book does mention ways to re-sync and it used to work quite well. That was before the added HD programing.

I guess it is back on the phone or keep pounding away on email. Problem is, they need to hear from more then just a few. With millions of subscribers, it is tough to be heard.

BobCat

[mwilson90065]

I too am experiencing this issue with Directv HD. I called for support. They had me change the audio from Dolby to Normal and back again and themn reboot my DVR. It takes 5 minutes or better to reboot so forget watching the show. Also if it happens to a recorded show while you are away you just have to suffer with it. I suggested that there might be an issue either with the Satelillite signal or the DVR. The response was if it was direct tv then everyone would have the problem. So I suggested that it was the DVR. He then got off on a tangent and said the HD DVR's cost Directv 799 dollars and that if I thought I would get one replaced with so minor an issue , It wasn't going to happen. I had the opportunity to bring Cable in 2 months later not one sync issue. I called back. No help. They called later and left me a message to call into a special number with a PIN. Why should I waste my time after the abuse I received from the first 2 Customer "service" reps. I spent a lot of money for my HD TV. I have been a loyal customer to Direct TV. There service has somehow moved to the gutter over the last 2 years. It shoiuld be pretty obvious that if this is no resolved I am moving to cable, PERIOD!

[wavemaster]

We don't see it nearly as much on ComcastHD. There are many times when we can switch between the two and it's the HR20 (or D*) that is off.

We can also get it happening in pre-recorded materials where if it were source it would be off the same every time, but it's not it's off in different places and is not repeatable. At that point the DVR is the provider, not the station feed. There is definitely some gremlins on Ds side. Hopefully they can at least fix their own issues.

[8bobcat8]

I too am experiencing this issue with Directv HD. I called for support. They had me change the audio from Dolby to Normal and back again and themn reboot my DVR. It takes 5 minutes or better to reboot so forget watching the show. Also if it happens to a recorded show while you are away you just have to suffer with it. I suggested that there might be an issue either with the Satelillite signal or the DVR. The response was if it was direct tv then everyone would have the problem. So I suggested that it was the DVR. He then got off on a tangent and said the HD DVR's cost Directv 799 dollars and that if I thought I would get one replaced with so minor an issue , It wasn't going to happen. I had the opportunity to bring Cable in 2 months later not one sync issue. I called back. No help. They called later and left me a message to call into a special number with a PIN. Why should I waste my time after the abuse I received from the first 2 Customer "service" reps. I spent a lot of money for my HD TV. I have been a loyal customer to Direct TV. There service has somehow moved to the gutter over the last 2 years. It shoiuld be pretty obvious that if this is no resolved I am moving to cable, PERIOD!

See, it ends up being your problem and they want YOU to try all that stuff to fix their problem.

BTW, you can still adjust sync on a recorded show by hitting pause a couple times. This used to work much more effectively then it does now (with all the added HD channels) but it does work somewhat.

BobCat

[ddrumman2004]

There is a very good explanation for the sync issues. We all know that light travels faster than sound so the audio signal from the satellites way up there in outer space just take longer to get here.
When I had an outside antenna(years ago), the wind would blow so hard that I would get OTA signals a day late!:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Just kidding! Heh!!

[kalrith]

My audio sync issues seem to be intermittent. Some shows have it, and some don't. I'm thinking it's my HR21 since it happened last night on an SD station.

And for everyone saying that this happens with all HD carriers, I beg to differ. I've watched 50+ hours on my in-laws' Dish HD and have not once noticed an audio sync issue. A lot of those hours have been on the Food Network, and sometimes my Food Network on DirectTV gets WAY off while there's is always spot on. I really hope this issue gets fixed soon since I like everything else about my HD channels and DVR. If not, I'll be switching to Dish once my contract runs out.

[JeffBowser]

:confused: It's as if the previous 11 pages of this thread don't exist. Late posters are re-starting the entire conversation from scratch.

My audio sync issues seem to be intermittent. Some shows have it, and some don't. I'm thinking it's my HR21 since it happened last night on an SD station.

And for everyone saying that this happens with all HD carriers, I beg to differ. I've watched 50+ hours on my in-laws' Dish HD and have not once noticed an audio sync issue. A lot of those hours have been on the Food Network, and sometimes my Food Network on DirectTV gets WAY off while there's is always spot on. I really hope this issue gets fixed soon since I like everything else about my HD channels and DVR. If not, I'll be switching to Dish once my contract runs out.

[Greg Alsobrook]

congrats on 1K jeff!

[JeffBowser]

Thanks. I think..... :lol:

congrats on 1K jeff!

[gregjones]

:confused: It's as if the previous 11 pages of this thread don't exist. Late posters are re-starting the entire conversation from scratch.

They are starting over and ignoring a lot of the information provided. For instance, I have noticed audio dropouts on my HR20, but I know these are related to the CE.

Audio dropouts can be replicated it at will with the CE by catching up to a show while it is recording. The fix is to pause and unpause. My point here is that this is a known issue of the CE. Anyone complaining about the issue needs to be specific about:
model of the receiver/DVR
software release running (national or specific CE)
cabling configuration (HDMI to TV, component to TV/optical to receiver)
channel
time and date


If you are seeing this on a national release of the software, this will be the best way to bring attention to the problem and hopefully get it resolved for you. Make your setup as simple as possible so that you can verify that it has nothing to do with your installation.

Sometimes, to get a solution you have to try a little.

[dhhaines]

Sometimes, to get a solution you have to try a little.

But if they get a solution they wouldn't have anything to complain about..:rolleyes: :nono2:

It's the same with all the complaint threads.

[Carl Spock]

The NFL Network is off for me tonight. I sent them this email:

You are having a real problem tonight (1/8) with lip sync on the HDTV feed of NFL Network. The sound and people's mouths don't match. The reason I know it is internal, within your network and not DirecTV's or my problem, is that it varies from show to show. On "Put Up Your Dukes" (6:30 PM EST edition) it was very bad, with the video quite behind the audio. It was better on "Total Access" (7 PM EST edition) but still off somewhat.

I can't remember seeing lip sync problems before with the NFL Network. I know lip sync is a general problem with HDTV but still, obviously you folks haven't had this problem in the past. You do tonight. Please fix it. It is very annoying.

[kalrith]

:confused: It's as if the previous 11 pages of this thread don't exist. Late posters are re-starting the entire conversation from scratch.

So once one person mentions something, no one else can add their input? I'm sorry, but I must have missed that section in the forum rules.

I did read most of this thread, but thank you very much for being so helpful in your reply. It added a lot to the content of this thread.

[Carl Spock]

The NFL Network was fine this morning. I'm sure my email had nothing to do with that. :grin:

[JeffBowser]

Kalrith - You draw the wrong conclusion about adding input, unless you are just trying to be deliberately condescending to me. Had you read, and comprehended, the prior 11 pages, you will have noted several very knowledgeable posters demonstrate that the problem is not strictly with DirecTV. And to provide counterpoint to your Dish observation, I spent a week over Christmas at my parents house, and I noted every bit as much lip sync issues with their Dish HD setup as I did with DirecTV, particuarly on the DiscoveryHD and ScienceHD channels - as usual, Survivorman was off, just like it has been on DirecTV.

[aceface]

JeffBowser;I spent a week over Christmas at my parents house, and I noted every bit as much lip sync issues with their Dish HD setup as I did with DirecTV, particuarly on the DiscoveryHD and ScienceHD channels - as usual, Survivorman was off, just like it has been on DirecTV.

Hi everyone
I'd like to chime in here. I'm another DirectTV subscriber with a H20 receiver that has bad lipsync issues on many HD channels, and hope I read enought this string to not offend anyone.

I've tried most everything to cure my issues - ie cabling - LipFix box - different configurations - etc. but still have bad problems. Most of all of my sync is sound after video so the LipFix box is ineffective. The most I have been able to move audio sync back is about 50 milliseconds with any configuration I have come up with which is not nearly enough on many channels.

JeffBowser
Your observation about Dish HD -
Yes it's obvious they do also have HD sync issues
BUT my observation is if you search various forums like this one is they have WAY less people complaining about it -- while DirectTV is awash with this issue. True Dish has 35% fewer users but the numbers are still WAY out of whack. So I have to assume - "YES they have issues BUT dramatically fewer issues!"

[dhhaines]

Hi everyone
I'd like to chime in here. I'm another DirectTV subscriber with a H20 receiver that has bad lipsync issues on many HD channels, and hope I read enought this string to not offend anyone.

I've tried most everything to cure my issues - ie cabling - LipFix box - different configurations - etc. but still have bad problems. Most of all of my sync is sound after video so the LipFix box is ineffective. The most I have been able to move audio sync back is about 50 milliseconds with any configuration I have come up with which is not nearly enough on many channels.

JeffBowser
Your observation about Dish HD -
Yes it's obvious they do also have HD sync issues
BUT my observation is if you search various forums like this one is they have WAY less people complaining about it -- while DirectTV is awash with this issue. True Dish has 35% fewer users but the numbers are still WAY out of whack. So I have to assume - "YES they have issues BUT dramatically fewer issues!"


Making an assumption based on what you see on forums is really taking a leap. If you really take notice on forums such as this one, it's the same people over and over who are posting, good or bad. Not a good basis for an arguement for or against.

BTW -- welcome to the forum.:welcome_s

[kalrith]

Kalrith - You draw the wrong conclusion about adding input, unless you are just trying to be deliberately condescending to me. Had you read, and comprehended, the prior 11 pages, you will have noted several very knowledgeable posters demonstrate that the problem is not strictly with DirecTV. And to provide counterpoint to your Dish observation, I spent a week over Christmas at my parents house, and I noted every bit as much lip sync issues with their Dish HD setup as I did with DirecTV, particuarly on the DiscoveryHD and ScienceHD channels - as usual, Survivorman was off, just like it has been on DirecTV.

I was being sarcastic but definitely not condescending. I'm in the process of reading the entire thread again to refresh my memory and make sure I didn't miss anything.

I suppose my in-laws are just lucky to have no sync issues. I wish I were that lucky. I watched Night at the Museum from one of the HD preimium movie channels (can't remember which one), and had to stop and resume it every 5-10 minutes because the audio would get off so quickly. It would start off perfect every time I resumed it though.

I'm going to do some troubleshooting with my system to see if I can isolate the problem and see if my problem is greater than that of others. Like I said, I saw the problem on an SD channel which seems very different than those whose problem is isolated to the MPEG4 HD channels. I'm also going to see if turning off Dolby surround sound (which I really like) helps the problem. I already tried switching from HDMI to component, and it made no difference whatsoever (just as many others have reported).

Also, is there a list of which channels are MPEG2 and which are MPEG4? It would be nice to see if I have sync issues with just the MPEG4 or both.

[rendar]

My two cents...

I have tried and tried but I have yet to be able to fix the sync issues by pausing or catching up to live on the buffer.

Last night was watching a program, and the audio was fine for a while, then in the middle of the show, there was what appeared to be a very small interruption in the transmission, and after that the audio was off - not as bad as some other times, but it was noticeable.

I haven't seen anybody really complaining about the short audio dropouts in a while - are others still having this problem? It has been getting worse for me, and the last week has just been awful. And unfortunately, the audio drops annoy the wife a lot more than the lip-syncing, so mulitple times a program I get to here "I hate DirecTV." Makes for an enjoyable viewing experience. :nono2:

[Steve Robertson]

My two cents...

I have tried and tried but I have yet to be able to fix the sync issues by pausing or catching up to live on the buffer.

Last night was watching a program, and the audio was fine for a while, then in the middle of the show, there was what appeared to be a very small interruption in the transmission, and after that the audio was off - not as bad as some other times, but it was noticeable.

I haven't seen anybody really complaining about the short audio dropouts in a while - are others still having this problem? It has been getting worse for me, and the last week has just been awful. And unfortunately, the audio drops annoy the wife a lot more than the lip-syncing, so mulitple times a program I get to here "I hate DirecTV." Makes for an enjoyable viewing experience. :nono2:


I have been getting audio fdropouts for a few months now and it does suck. I turn up my tv volume a little so that when it cuts out on my surround sound I still get some audio not a great fix but until I feel like fighting with D* this is what I have come up with.

[8bobcat8]

They are starting over and ignoring a lot of the information provided. For instance, I have noticed audio dropouts on my HR20, but I know these are related to the CE.

Audio dropouts can be replicated it at will with the CE by catching up to a show while it is recording. The fix is to pause and unpause. My point here is that this is a known issue of the CE. Anyone complaining about the issue needs to be specific about:
model of the receiver/DVR
software release running (national or specific CE)
cabling configuration (HDMI to TV, component to TV/optical to receiver)
channel
time and date


If you are seeing this on a national release of the software, this will be the best way to bring attention to the problem and hopefully get it resolved for you. Make your setup as simple as possible so that you can verify that it has nothing to do with your installation.

Sometimes, to get a solution you have to try a little.

Hey, I'm new to this thread but old to the immaturity of the product. Like I said above, I have to go through this all over again because the product (or products) are unrefined. I'm tired of it. I also don't care whose problem it is as long as it gets fixed and soon.

If my complaint (or all these repeated complaints) helps get it fixed one day earlier then it would have been worth it.

We are dealing with the largest (customer base) HD provider out there. Perhaps if it is not their fault they would have the clout to get the offenders to fix their sh1t.

Perhaps we each need to start individual threads about this to get attention. Certainly an email to D* wouldn't hurt. One or two a week should help.

BobCat

[hasan]

Hey, I'm new to this thread but old to the immaturity of the product. Like I said above, I have to go through this all over again because the product (or products) are unrefined. I'm tired of it. I also don't care whose problem it is as long as it gets fixed and soon.

If my complaint (or all these repeated complaints) helps get it fixed one day earlier then it would have been worth it.

We are dealing with the largest (customer base) HD provider out there. Perhaps if it is not their fault they would have the clout to get the offenders to fix their sh1t.

Perhaps we each need to start individual threads about this to get attention. Certainly an email to D* wouldn't hurt. One or two a week should help.

BobCat

Emailing D* as frequently as one likes is fine...starting multiple threads on the forum is an abuse of the system (it ain't dbstalk's fault that the problem exists, or isn't being fixed as quickly as you like). Don't punish us for your lack of satisfaction with D*.

[8bobcat8]

Emailing D* as frequently as one likes is fine...starting multiple threads on the forum is an abuse of the system (it ain't dbstalk's fault that the problem exists, or isn't being fixed as quickly as you like). Don't punish us for your lack of satisfaction with D*.

At least for this forum, I guess I meant to say that each one of us that has this sync problem should perhaps start a thread and since D* probably monitor this forum, it might get noticed. Certainly as individuals we have the right to do that and I don't think it is abuse. Perhaps a pole or subgroup for this issue. I'm not advocating that an individual should start multiple repetitive threads.

Also, I would be happy with a genuine D* explanation and a time line. I just want some acknowledgment as to where the problem is.

BobCat

[n3ntj]

I haven't seen any audio/video sync issues in several weeks. Did D* finally fix this problem?!?

[gfrang]

I haven't seen any audio/video sync issues in several weeks. Did D* finally fix this problem?!?

No.

[JeffBowser]

In the past it has come and gone, but I noticed mythbusters this week has been in sync, and that has been one of the worst in the past. Other than that, I've not watched enough TV this week to make any judgement.

I haven't seen any audio/video sync issues in several weeks. Did D* finally fix this problem?!?

[kalrith]

I haven't seen any audio/video sync issues in several weeks. Did D* finally fix this problem?!?

I've noticed it's off a bit on TLC for What Not to Wear and Miss America: Reality Check (my wife's shows, not mine), but it's not terrible. It is terrible on anything I've seen on Food Network. I love Good Eats, but I can't stand to watch it on the HD channel. I change it to Food Network periodically just to see if it's with every show and with both live and recorded shows, and it seems to be. Usually it's off by about half a second with the audio trailing the video. With TLC it's usually the audio trailing the video, but sometimes it's the other way around.

I think my DVR has problems as well since hitting pause and then play seems to sync up the audio for a little while on some recordings.

[webhype]

Versus HD last night during the Islander/Canadien game - of course only noticible between periods and pre/post game.

[dreadlk]

Here we go again :(
That simply is not true, this Lip Sync issue is much much worst for Directv people, especially people with HR20-100 running 0x1be firmware. At home I have FTA-HD, 4DTV-HD and I have Used Dish HD. The problems on those are occasional but on my HR20 it's about 1 in every 4 HD shows has a sync problem.

Kalrith - You draw the wrong conclusion about adding input, unless you are just trying to be deliberately condescending to me. Had you read, and comprehended, the prior 11 pages, you will have noted several very knowledgeable posters demonstrate that the problem is not strictly with DirecTV. And to provide counterpoint to your Dish observation, I spent a week over Christmas at my parents house, and I noted every bit as much lip sync issues with their Dish HD setup as I did with DirecTV, particuarly on the DiscoveryHD and ScienceHD channels - as usual, Survivorman was off, just like it has been on DirecTV.

[luckydob]

I don't see Dell offering refunds to customers who bought Microsoft Vista.

Nope...I don't see apple offering refunds on the iPod Touch either...oh wait...they are charging 20.00 to get you up to date. Apple is no different than Microsoft. You say M$ I say i$.

HD is NOT new.
D* is not new.

Fix the problem...I pay you for this service, yet you fail to fix it. At least MS and I$ try to fix their issues.

[Carl Spock]

Considering how much better sync issues are now than they were 45 days ago, somebody's trying to fix them. I don't know who or how but I've got to think DirecTV is involved on some level at least.

Can DirecTV eliminate them? No, for all the reasons mentioned over the last 300 posts.

[JeffBowser]

I'm not even going to argue with you, but only ask - why did you dredge up a week old post of mine to argue with ?


Here we go again :(
That simply is not true, this Lip Sync issue is much much worst for Directv people, especially people with HR20-100 running 0x1be firmware. At home I have FTA-HD, 4DTV-HD and I have Used Dish HD. The problems on those are occasional but on my HR20 it's about 1 in every 4 HD shows has a sync problem.

[Carl Spock]

Jeff, luckydob just quoted a post of mine that was nearly a month old. So it goes.

This really has become the reference thread for this issue and for that I'm glad. We need a clearing house.

[JeffBowser]

Ah. Oh well. After this thread, and countless like it, I have concluded it is useless to make any arguments, it seems to be a very emotional issue. I figure it will get fixed when it gets fixed, and that is OK with me (not that I enjoy out of sync sound, but I am confident people are working hard on it).

Jeff, luckydob just quoted a post of mine that was nearly a month old. So it goes.

This really has become the reference thread for this issue and for that I'm glad. We need a clearing house.

[hdtvfan0001]

Just out of curiosity, I called my local Fox affiliate in another room while the XX chromosomes in the home were watching American Idol last night.

I had observed in walking by the Family Room set that there was sync problems going on - but who could really tell with some of those people on that show (and I use that term "people" loosely). :lol:

In any case - I had an interesting 15 minute discussion with the station's Engineer, who informed me that yes indeed, our local Fox feed had some "audio sync problems" that they were trying to address.

He also shared that this happens "more times than anyone cares to admit". Lastly, he stated "all the major networks continue to have re-broadcast transmission issues when it comes to audio sync, especially since much of the equipment is new and the folks using it are newly trained as well."

This is about the 5th or 6th confirmation (from different sources) that there are plenty of transmission audio sync problems that originate at the source and/or re-transmission locations.

While I'm sure there are still some hiccups in various receiver/DVR units, my view is that the network problems make up the majority of the cases.

[JeffBowser]

Thank you. Now stand back and watch as your logic, and good information, is drowned in a sea of self-righteous emotion. I give it two pages.

Just out of curiosity, I called my local Fox affiliate in another room while the XX chromosomes in the home were watching American Idol last night.

I had observed in walking by the Family Room set that there was sync problems going on - but who could really tell with some of those people on that show (and I use that term "people" loosely). :lol:

In any case - I had an interesting 15 minute discussion with the station's Engineer, who informed me that yes indeed, our local Fox feed had some "audio sync problems" that they were trying to address.

He also shared that this happens "more times than anyone cares to admit". Lastly, he stated "all the major networks continue to have re-broadcast transmission issues when it comes to audio sync, especially since much of the equipment is new and the folks using it are newly trained as well."

This is about the 5th or 6th confirmation (from different sources) that there are plenty of transmission audio sync problems that originate at the source and/or re-transmission locations.

While I'm sure there are still some hiccups in various receiver/DVR units, my view is that the network problems make up the majority of the cases.

[Carl Spock]

Naw, two posts. ;)

[dhhaines]

Thank you. Now stand back and watch as your logic, and good information, is drowned in a sea of self-righteous emotion. I give it two pages.

Oh come on now...... we all know that Directv is the "only" one having this problem and it has to do with the CSR's not knowing anything, and the bad engineering of the HRxx's and their dish is shaped wrong and the transponders are pointed wrong..... and because Directv has no idea how to deliver TV better than (fill -in your favorite provider here).... :lol: :lol:


Sorry couldn't resist.. :rolleyes: :D

[sigma1914]

Just out of curiosity, I called my local Fox affiliate in another room while the XX chromosomes in the home were watching American Idol last night.

I had observed in walking by the Family Room set that there was sync problems going on - but who could really tell with some of those people on that show (and I use that term "people" loosely). :lol:

In any case - I had an interesting 15 minute discussion with the station's Engineer, who informed me that yes indeed, our local Fox feed had some "audio sync problems" that they were trying to address.

He also shared that this happens "more times than anyone cares to admit". Lastly, he stated "all the major networks continue to have re-broadcast transmission issues when it comes to audio sync, especially since much of the equipment is new and the folks using it are newly trained as well."

This is about the 5th or 6th confirmation (from different sources) that there are plenty of transmission audio sync problems that originate at the source and/or re-transmission locations.

While I'm sure there are still some hiccups in various receiver/DVR units, my view is that the network problems make up the majority of the cases.

Our Fox had the same issue during Idol last night, too...just barely off.

[bobinnv]

I just wanted to chime in here, as a new D user who switched over from E about a week ago. I rarely, if ever, had sync issues with E. But with D (using an HR21-700), we are seeing sound and picture out of sync fairly frequently. Sometimes it comes and goes, sometimes a whole show (or channel) is out of whack. It doesn't seem to be related to being SD or HD, or to a particular channel.

While I can imagine the broadcasters sometimes have sync problems, it sure looks to me to be a D problem, since I never saw this with E.

[gregjones]

I just wanted to chime in here, as a new D user who switched over from E about a week ago. I rarely, if ever, had sync issues with E. But with D (using an HR21-700), we are seeing sound and picture out of sync fairly frequently. Sometimes it comes and goes, sometimes a whole show (or channel) is out of whack. It doesn't seem to be related to being SD or HD, or to a particular channel.

While I can imagine the broadcasters sometimes have sync problems, it sure looks to me to be a D problem, since I never saw this with E.

Please read further up the thread and post the channel, time, setup, etc. as requested. If you see these issues on a channel not offered by Dish, it is no surprise that you didn't see it there.

[JeffBowser]

Wow - you were close - 3 posts.

Naw, two posts. ;)

[jwd45244]

Let's see if we can summarize:


People are seeing / hearing lip sync issues.
Some people are mad at DirecTV.
Some portion of these may be in DirecTV's control and since we have seen some improvements, they are trying to address it.
Some portion of the lip sync occurs in the hand off between the content provider and DirecTV. DirecTV is working with the providers on this hand-off. Not all providers hand-off content how they hand it off to Dish or cable so differences can and do show up. This makes it very tough to diagnose.
Lastly, some of it is happening at the source. DirecTV has no control of this.


Have I missed anything?

[kalrith]

The sync issue has gotten MUCH better for me. Food Network and TLC were the main stations on which I noticed it before. Good Eats still has some sync issues, but the audio is off by about 75% less than before. All other Food Network shows seem to be right on or close to it. The TLC shows are pretty much dead-on as well.

I was really frustrated before and still would like it to be 100% correct. However, I really appreciate the progress DirecTV (I assume) has made in this area. In a few months I'm hoping that sync issues will be very few and far between (until another satellite launch, that is :) ).

[chutta]

Just for another data point - I have found that the problem is with the MPEG4 feed. It is definilty a DirecTV problem. Its not our home equipment and its not the broadcast stations.

Next time you notice sync problems with HD broadcast networks, change channels to the old MPEG2 HD channels and you'll notice that the sync is perfect there. This proves its all DirecTV and they need to fix it.

I second this data point. I have struggled with this issue since first getting my HR20 upon its release. I have also found that the MPEG 2 feeds do not have the problem (on an HR10-250 OR the HR20). I have also not had this problem with the same "wiring setup" from other HD sources such as a Blu-ray player. It may not be solely a D* problem, but it is a D* problem.

Take it from those of us who have struggled for months, if not years, as in my case, to diagnose this and other problems of this technology since its inception from D*. Don't waste your time and money switching HDMI cables and component cables or removing your surround equipment. This sync issue has been diagnosed by enough of us to be real. I am not saying that it is not possible to have other problems, but it is unlikely that your "wiring setup" is the problem if you are experiencing the same sync problems that are described by the rest of us.

While I applaud D*'s efforts to correct the vast majority of the many problems that exist, this issue seems simply not to have been made as big a priority as trick play and other non-core issues (core meaning: video and audio). Perhaps threads like this one will help.

[hdtvfan0001]

Let's see if we can summarize:


People are seeing / hearing lip sync issues.
Some people are mad at DirecTV.
Some portion of these may be in DirecTV's control and since we have seen some improvements, they are trying to address it.
Some portion of the lip sync occurs in the hand off between the content provider and DirecTV. DirecTV is working with the providers on this hand-off. Not all providers hand-off content how they hand it off to Dish or cable so differences can and do show up. This makes it very tough to diagnose.
Lastly, some of it is happening at the source. DirecTV has no control of this.


Have I missed anything?
You've got it all covered. :)

[dhhaines]

You've got it all covered. :)

So... I guess now all the sync threads can be closed. :rolleyes: :lol:

[Carl Spock]

You bet. Let's declare victory and go home. :D


;) Actually, I thought that was a dynamite summary. :righton:

[videolover]

If you are fed up with lip sync problems, I just read about an excellent opportunity to do something about it Sunday. If you see lip sync problems on any of the Super Bowl commercials, write down the commercial, time and your service provider (e.g. over the air station, cable, satellite provider, etc.). After the game is over, look up the company that purchased the commercial on the internet (e.g. Budwiser, Coors, Miller, etc.) and send them an email complaining about the lip sync problem. Be sure to let them know the commercial, time and your service provider. They are paying over $2 million per commercial and you can be sure that they will look into the problem if they get enough complaints. Generally, I think writing to advertizers about lip sync problems (or other technical problems) is a good way to get your provider to stop passing the buck and do something. Right now if you complain they just point the blame to somebody upstream or downstream in the program distribution channel. If the company paying for the commercial gets involved, they will track down the problem in a hurry.

[BarkingGhost]

All, the only lip sync issues I have noticed, and now the wife notices as well, is with our DirecTV-sourced local CBS HD feed. While the wife really could easily live with it, I have had to train myself to never look below the character's eyes. :D BTW, this is on both new HR21's I've had for about a month now.

I understand that this may be my overly sensitive condition perception but I do have to wonder if this isn't something more broader. And no, being new to this forum I have not read the first 300 posts in this thread. :grin:

Aside from this, the HDnet/HDnet Movies audio double-stepping seems to be present. I had originally attributed this to something in the MPEG-2 retransmission, but its there in the MPEG-4 system as well.