HR21 Lease Price Reduced?

[RS4]

Is the lease price for the HR21 the same as the HR20? I would assume it is less because I know it doesn't have the same hardware features as the HR20.

[Milominderbinder2]

Is the lease price for the HR21 the same as the HR20? I would assume it is less because I know it doesn't have the same hardware features as the HR20.
Ronald!

Your first thread!

Ronald, this is everyone.

Everyone, this is Ronald.

Welcome Ronald!

- Craig
Ronald is from the TiVoCentral forum. He knows all about the HR20 and HR21. He knows they are both the same price. He pops up about once every 3 months, makes about 10 attacks on the HR20, then is gone again. Shhh.

[Drew2k]

Ooh, an early Christmas present!

Thanks Craig!

[RS4]

Ronald!

Your first thread!

Ronald, this is everyone.

Everyone, this is Ronald.

Welcome Ronald!

- Craig
Ronald is from the TiVoCentral forum. He knows all about the HR20 and HR21. He knows they are both the same price. He pops up about once every 3 months, makes about 10 attacks on the HR20, then is gone again. Shhh.

Hey Craig - how's it going? Yeah, I was wondering about the price of the HR21 - figured it must be $50 or so less then the HR20 - after all, less hardware, less features. Oh wait, this is D*, let me guess it's still the same??:p Hmmm, wonder if they'll charge more when they come out with OTA 'fix'?? Wouldn't be surprised:)

[Tom Robertson]

Hey Ronald. How are those 10 HD channels you can get on any Tivo doing? I'm over 80 now and still climbing. With my HR21.

With my HR20, I am over 100.

With the HR21 dual OTA tuner solution, I'll have the same over 100.

So, want to trade up? :)

Do have a Merry Christmas!
Tom

[RS4]

Hey Ronald. How are those 10 HD channels you can get on any Tivo doing? I'm over 80 now and still climbing. With my HR21.

With my HR20, I am over 100.

With the HR21 dual OTA tuner solution, I'll have the same over 100.

So, want to trade up? :)

Do have a Merry Christmas!
Tom

Hi Tom,

Glad you're enjoying the channels. BTW, how many of those 100 are showing the same sports? Yeah, quantity is more important to some, so they are willing to settle for second best:D

And of course with D* being such a great customer-oriented company, I'm sure they won't charge you too much more for the OTA fix - what, maybe $40, 50 bucks? :)

[gio12]

Oh great! The TROLL is among here among us as well....:eek2:

The HR21 comes with the 2yr commitment as well so don't worry! :rolleyes:

Still better than the HR10 overall as well.....

[Milominderbinder2]

If you look back Ronald pops up once every 3 months or so in a thread where someone was unhappy with the HR20.

He couldn't find one so he tried to start his own.

Ronald will make about a dozen jabs at the HR20 and then be gone again.

Typically one post will be about how the DIRECTV contract is 24 months and no other company has service commitments. Several will bemoan the fact that just like dating, he wants to try before he buys. One will be how TiVo is better. Another will be how TiVo is coming back any minute.

9 to go.

- Craig

[RS4]

If you look back Ronald pops up once every 3 months or so in a thread where someone was unhappy with the HR20.

He couldn't find one so he tried to start his own.

Ronald will make about a dozen jabs at the HR20 and then be gone again.

Typically one post will be about how the DIRECTV contract is 24 months and no other company has service commitments. Several will bemoan the fact that just like dating, he wants to try before he buys. One will be how TiVo is better. Another will be how TiVo is coming back any minute.

9 to go.

- Craig


yeah, that's right Craig - I like to spread some holiday cheer:p Actually, I see there are still the typical amount of complaints - seems like old times - maybe about a year or so ago when things were hot and heavy with the box.

[Xaa]

Just keep paying DirecTv every month Ronald. Show them that you're all bark buddy.

Hey before you post, hit your TiVo button twice and maybe by the time you're finished your playlist will be populated.

[Tom Robertson]

Hi Tom,

Glad you're enjoying the channels. BTW, how many of those 100 are showing the same sports? Yeah, quantity is more important to some, so they are willing to settle for second best:D

And of course with D* being such a great customer-oriented company, I'm sure they won't charge you too much more for the OTA fix - what, maybe $40, 50 bucks? :)The same sports or any sports? If I remove all the sports channels, I still am left with a whole bunch compared to what I can get with any Tivo on any system out there. (Please understand, I really liked my Tivos, mostly as very good DVRs. And I do want DLBs too.)

Hit and run tactics typically confuse me. That doesn't seem like the most productive use of my time. :)

Perhaps I should continue this discussion on the tivo forums. Tivo had the whole enchilada in their hands and gave it up. Compuserve did the same thing. Lotus did it to Visicalc--then lost it themselves!

The HR21 saves overall costs to DIRECTV. Tivo does not and since it doesn't really offer anything for that extra cost, they priced themselves out of a relationship that could have been fantastic for all involved.

Have a Merry Christmas, everyone!
Tom

[Milominderbinder2]

yeah, that's right Craig - I like to spread some holiday cheer:p Actually, I see there are still the typical amount of complaints - seems like old times - maybe about a year or so ago when things were hot and heavy with the box.Voice from booth:

8 to go. Cue "Just like dating, I want to Try before I buy." On my mark. 3...2... :)

Merry Christmas, Ronald!

- Craig

[Tom Robertson]

yeah, that's right Craig - I like to spread some holiday cheer:p Actually, I see there are still the typical amount of complaints - seems like old times - maybe about a year or so ago when things were hot and heavy with the box.
DBStalk has twice the number of users than a year ago. The reports are much, much more positive. The number of new complaint threads is way down.

Are the problems completely gone? Nope. Are the Tivo problems gone. Hardly.

I want HD channels. I don't need any one particular DVR, just one that provides the HD.

Merry Christmas!
Tom

[RS4]

...

Tivo had the whole enchilada in their hands and gave it up.

The HR21 saves overall costs to DIRECTV. Tivo does not and since it doesn't really offer anything for that extra cost, they priced themselves out of a relationship that could have been fantastic for all involved.


Tom

How do you know it was Tivo that gave up the whole enchilada? How do you know that it wasn't Direct trying to control Tivo?

How much money exactly is Direct saving at the moment? How much more money do you think Direct would be making if they still had the Tivo to go along with their own machine? There were plenty of us who brought family and friends into the fold - how many of us are now turning folks away? Oh yeah, Direct is growing, but the question is how much more could they have grown with Tivo having an mepg4?

[Milominderbinder2]

For those of you playing along at home, the HR20/21 order backlog is 3 to 6 weeks in most areas. Any more and they would have to put new customers on the waitlist again.

7 attacks to go.

- Craig

[Tom Robertson]

How do you know it was Tivo that gave up the whole enchilada? How do you know that it wasn't Direct trying to control Tivo?

How much money exactly is Direct saving at the moment? How much more money do you think Direct would be making if they still had the Tivo to go along with their own machine? There were plenty of us who brought family and friends into the fold - how many of us are now turning folks away? Oh yeah, Direct is growing, but the question is how much more could they have grown with Tivo having an mepg4?
What I know is that it was a complex negotiation. Tivo had the entire marketplace having outlived Replay and Ultimate. They had a huge relationship with DIRECTV that ended up poorly. I am not saying Tivo was solely at fault for the relationship with DIRECTV; but they no longer have the whole market by any means. That is their fault.

And since I don't know how many DIRECTivo there were, how much DIRECTV paid Tivo per, how many HR20s/HR21s there are, nor the hardware level costs for that matter, I ain't got much of a clue. Other than HR2x have greatly outsold DIRECTivos hand over fist; Tivos haven't delivered on the cable connections, and their subscriber base is shrinking every MPEG4 day. :)

Could have DIRECTV and Tivo formed a great relationship? I don't know. At a first glance, yes, absolutely; a marvelous symbiotic relationship should have happened.

But sometimes companies have differing goals, so Tivo is no longer enjoying the subscriber base they once had. DIRECTV, on the other hand, doesn't seem to be suffering the lost of the Tivo part of the relationship nearly as much. From a Tivo fan point of view, that would be a shame. Since I'm not married too much to any one DVR technology, I guess I'm pretty neutral from that standpoint.

So, get some HR2Xs and enjoy lots of HD. Or be like Ultimate and Replay die hards. Not only watch the train wreck that is coming, go ahead and hop in the front for the best view. :)

Merry Christmas!
Tom

[Earl Bonovich]

Enough with the name calling...

I may not be a moderator at TCF... but I am here.
And the rules are the stay.

If you want to discuss... discuss...
If you want to throw mud and name calling... open your own board.

As to the original question.

Both units are still a "loss" so the price reduction in manufacturing was to reduce that loss... not to lower the lease price.

[Xaa]

Tom,

You hit it on the head. TiVo lost their largest and most profitable customer. Whatever they did or didn't do, it wasn't right for them. They're suffering more than DirecTv. Heck Ronald isn't even a TiVo customer. He chooses to use the dollars from his own economy to support DirecTv.

[Xaa]

Enough with the name calling...


Uhhh am I missing something? I think Craig and Ronald are their actual names.

[Tom Robertson]

Referring to someone as a troll or as to feeding troll is not very nice.

[Drew2k]

It's well know at TCF and here at DBSTalk that there is no discount on the HR21 receivers. Anyone who looks up the price for an HR21 at any electronics retailer will also see there is no discount for the HR21. Facts are facts.

[Earl Bonovich]

Referring to someone as a troll or as to feeding troll is not very nice.

Exactly...

[RS4]

What I know is that it was a complex negotiation. Tivo had the entire marketplace having outlived Replay and Ultimate. They had a huge relationship with DIRECTV that ended up poorly. I am not saying Tivo was solely at fault for the relationship with DIRECTV; but they no longer have the whole market by any means. That is their fault.

And since I don't know how many DIRECTivo there were, how much DIRECTV paid Tivo per, how many HR20s/HR21s there are, nor the hardware level costs for that matter, I ain't got much of a clue. Other than HR2x have greatly outsold DIRECTivos hand over fist; Tivos haven't delivered on the cable connections, and their subscriber base is shrinking every MPEG4 day. :)

Could have DIRECTV and Tivo formed a great relationship? I don't know. At a first glance, yes, absolutely; a marvelous symbiotic relationship should have happened.

But sometimes companies have differing goals, so Tivo is no longer enjoying the subscriber base they once had. DIRECTV, on the other hand, doesn't seem to be suffering the lost of the Tivo part of the relationship nearly as much. From a Tivo fan point of view, that would be a shame. Since I'm not married too much to any one DVR technology, I guess I'm pretty neutral from that standpoint.

So, get some HR2Xs and enjoy lots of HD. Or be like Ultimate and Replay die hards. Not only watch the train wreck that is coming, go ahead and hop in the front for the best view. :)

Merry Christmas!
Tom

Tom, that sorta proved my point. I've seen other entries about the breakup being Tivos' fault, but I don't believe anyone actually knows that for sure. A long time back I read speculation the Direct wanted more control of the box. It seems that Murdoch wanted control over the 30-second skip so that he could turn it off for certain channels - the idea being that he could then charge a network for turning off the skip so that the customers would then be forced to view the ads on the channel. But Tivo refused to bow to that kind of control. It's quite ironic if all of that is true, because of Direct now offering a 30-sec skip.

I believe that Direct created a mess because of greed. Direct used to be a great company in my mind and I would gladly recommend them, now it's the opposite. They have now become just another video supplier. They have let greed get in the way of greatness.

There is no doubt that Direct is growing due to the amount of HD channels - even if they are counted funny by Direct. I just wonder how much more they would have grown if they had concentrated on the channels and improved the Tivos.

In the mean time, Direct's customers suffer needlessly.

[Xaa]

Tom, that sorta proved my point. I've seen other entries about the breakup being Tivos' fault, but I don't believe anyone actually knows that for sure. A long time back I read speculation the Direct wanted more control of the box. It seems that Murdoch wanted control over the 30-second skip so that he could turn it off for certain channels - the idea being that he could then charge a network for turning off the skip so that the customers would then be forced to view the ads on the channel. But Tivo refused to bow to that kind of control. It's quite ironic if all of that is true, because of Direct now offering a 30-sec skip.



Wow, did you just make that up?

It's even more ironic given that TiVo bowed to the networks and NEVER included 30 second skip as a stock feature. It's instead a back alley hack that goes away on a reboot. They don't support the feature. Kinda the opposite of what you're suggesting. Every DirecTv Plus DVR has had a 30 second slip (and soon a choice of slip or skip).

Like I said above anytime you lose your biggest and most profitable customer, you've done something wrong.

Now all of us DirecTv customers have to "suffer" with a much faster and more feature rich box. It's killing us to the point that DirecTv can't produce them or install them fast enough. Oh the pain....

[RS4]

Enough with the name calling...

...
As to the original question.

Both units are still a "loss" so the price reduction in manufacturing was to reduce that loss... not to lower the lease price.

Shows what a poor job Direct has done at managing this whole project - they couldn't even come up with the build cost of the dvr, so after a year they contract a new one and drop features just to meet a cost.:mad:

"Let's see, I think it will be about $300 to get one built. Oops - sorry boss, now that they're here, it's $400."

"Oh, that's ok - we'll just pull out the OTA and figure something out later. In the mean time, tell the crowd, we're working on something, and that we can't tell them who's going to get what during the install. Tell them we lost the serial numbers, so it's impossible to find what installers have in stock."

"Ok, cool - that'll keep em off our backs for several months":lol:

[upnorth]

Tom, that sorta proved my point. I've seen other entries about the breakup being Tivos' fault, but I don't believe anyone actually knows that for sure. A long time back I read speculation the Direct wanted more control of the box. It seems that Murdoch wanted control over the 30-second skip so that he could turn it off for certain channels - the idea being that he could then charge a network for turning off the skip so that the customers would then be forced to view the ads on the channel. But Tivo refused to bow to that kind of control. It's quite ironic if all of that is true, because of Direct now offering a 30-sec skip.

I believe that Direct created a mess because of greed. Direct used to be a great company in my mind and I would gladly recommend them, now it's the opposite. They have now become just another video supplier. They have let greed get in the way of greatness.

There is no doubt that Direct is growing due to the amount of HD channels - even if they are counted funny by Direct. I just wonder how much more they would have grown if they had concentrated on the channels and improved the Tivos.

In the mean time, Direct's customers suffer needlessly.

Imagine that!! DirecTV wanting more control over there Equipment sounds normal to me but not for the reasons you posted.
Oh and yes I suffer everyday trying to figure out just which HD channel I should watch and which of the many movies to watch that I have recorded in HD.
And this weekend with a house full of Company celebrating the Holidays we suffered thru all the old Xmas videos I had stored on my PC via my home network and the HR20.
Please do not speak for me as I can speak for myself.;)

[richlife]

Yeah, this is why I won't watch anything that's not HD -- too much quality HD programming from DirecTV to bother with a poor picture. That's also why I've made a public statement in our private community board recommending DirecTV over Dish -- based on my personal experience. And of course, I can back that up by the many good experiences I've had with DirecTV service. This is all true and is why I'm a long time DirecTV customer. Every attempt I made to explore a Dish option ended quickly when I discovered the misleading pricing, the false programming claimes and the outright lies I was told by their service/sales. (Remember, it's not libel if it's fact.)

Imagine that!! DirecTV wanting more control over there Equipment sounds normal to me but not for the reasons you posted.
Oh and yes I suffer everyday trying to figure out just which HD channel I should watch and which of the many movies to watch that I have recorded in HD.
And this weekend with a house full of Company celebrating the Holidays we suffered thru all the old Xmas videos I had stored on my PC via my home network and the HR20.
Please do not speak for me as I can speak for myself.;)

[Spanky_Partain]

Is the lease price for the HR21 the same as the HR20? I would assume it is less because I know it doesn't have the same hardware features as the HR20.

Since representitives of Directv are most likely the ones who can give you that information, I reccommend you call them and ask them the question.

However, if you have a piece of Directv equipment that you would like some help with or need some answers to some questions about it, please feel free to ask and we will try to assist you.

About the only assistance I can give you for your question is this LINK (http://directv.com/)!

[bakers12]

In the mean time, Direct's customers suffer needlessly.
How about if I decide for myself whether or not I'm suffering?

[Drew2k]

In the mean time, Direct's customers suffer needlessly.So let's say your health plan drops your doctor of the last 4 years, but there's a new doctor across the street from your current doctor who is in your company's health plan. Do you fight your health plan and beg and plead for them to take back your doctor? What if the doctor willingly wanted out of the health plan? What if the health plan dropped the doctor because he over billed? What if the doctor and the health plan aren't telling you why they no longer are working together? Do you switch doctors or do you suffer needlessly by not taking action?

The choice is your own.

Any suffering or relief ... is your own.

[Sirshagg]

No matter the reason for the split between Tivo and DirecTv - who walked away from the split significanly worse off?

[RS4]

No matter the reason for the split between Tivo and DirecTv - who walked away from the split significanly worse off?


Well that's a no-brainer - it was the customer!!:mad:

[Xaa]

Part of Ronald's delusion is that his experience is generally representative. It's grown on me in a sweet way. Don't stop being you man!

[RS4]

So let's say your health plan drops your doctor of the last 4 years, but there's a new doctor across the street from your current doctor who is in your company's health plan. Do you fight your health plan and beg and plead for them to take back your doctor? What if the doctor willingly wanted out of the health plan? What if the health plan dropped the doctor because he over billed? What if the doctor and the health plan aren't telling you why they no longer are working together? Do you switch doctors or do you suffer needlessly by not taking action?

The choice is your own.

Any suffering or relief ... is your own.

I'm not quite sure what the point was, Drew, but I had that very thing and I dropped the health plan and stayed with the doctor - someone I could trust and thought had my interests at heart. Hmm, what does that remind me of?

[RS4]

Imagine that!! DirecTV wanting more control over there Equipment sounds normal to me but not for the reasons you posted.
Oh and yes I suffer everyday trying to figure out just which HD channel I should watch and which of the many movies to watch that I have recorded in HD.
And this weekend with a house full of Company celebrating the Holidays we suffered thru all the old Xmas videos I had stored on my PC via my home network and the HR20.
Please do not speak for me as I can speak for myself.;)

Actually, I was speaking for the other folks ... let's see what was the number in the poll - oh yeah, over half of them preferred the Tivo. Let's just say that I speak for a significant number.:)

[Xaa]

I'm not quite sure what the point was, Drew, but I had that very thing and I dropped the health plan and stayed with the doctor - someone I could trust and thought had my interests at heart. Hmm, what does that remind me of?
Reminds me of you staying with DirecTv like you have.

[jebber]

Actually, I was speaking for the other folks ... let's see what was the number in the poll - oh yeah, over half of them preferred the Tivo. Let's just say that I speak for a significant number.:)

you're correct, disproportionately correct, but correct none the less.

[Tom Robertson]

Tom, that sorta proved my point. I've seen other entries about the breakup being Tivos' fault, but I don't believe anyone actually knows that for sure. A long time back I read speculation the Direct wanted more control of the box. It seems that Murdoch wanted control over the 30-second skip so that he could turn it off for certain channels - the idea being that he could then charge a network for turning off the skip so that the customers would then be forced to view the ads on the channel. But Tivo refused to bow to that kind of control. It's quite ironic if all of that is true, because of Direct now offering a 30-sec skip.

I believe that Direct created a mess because of greed. Direct used to be a great company in my mind and I would gladly recommend them, now it's the opposite. They have now become just another video supplier. They have let greed get in the way of greatness.

There is no doubt that Direct is growing due to the amount of HD channels - even if they are counted funny by Direct. I just wonder how much more they would have grown if they had concentrated on the channels and improved the Tivos.

In the mean time, Direct's customers suffer needlessly.Every thing I've heard from sources tells me this was a very complex business relationship and negotiation that failed, likely at multiple levels. I do not have any particular information that tells me either company was "at fault". Just a meeting of the minds did not happen.

I do not believe that the matter was a simple as any of the sweeping generalizations I've read about. And no, I do not fully know, myself. I wasn't in either camps secret internal meetings to know.

So I do not fault Tivo per se for the failed negotiation/relationship with DIRECTV. I am faulting them for losing their control of the market in general thru a series of managerial mistakes, some of which only might be visible in hindsight. Anytime a company loses their grasp of a market they control, it means management missed the competition or the marketplace changes.

Happy, Merry Christmas!
Tom

[phat78boy]

Well that's a no-brainer - it was the customer!!:mad:

Who is to say the customers suffered? On the same note, if only a very small percentage thinks they suffered, shouldn't DirecTV try to satisfy the larger percentage?

I'm not claiming to know anything about the Tivo and DirecTV deal, but lets say at the end of the day it was going to cost customers more per month to keep Tivo. I would think the larger percentage of people would rather a lower monthly cost then to keep Tivo. The same scenario I'm sure can be used for a lot of different reasons.

[Earl Bonovich]

Shows what a poor job Direct has done at managing this whole project - they couldn't even come up with the build cost of the dvr, so after a year they contract a new one and drop features just to meet a cost.:mad:

"Let's see, I think it will be about $300 to get one built. Oops - sorry boss, now that they're here, it's $400."

"Oh, that's ok - we'll just pull out the OTA and figure something out later. In the mean time, tell the crowd, we're working on something, and that we can't tell them who's going to get what during the install. Tell them we lost the serial numbers, so it's impossible to find what installers have in stock."

"Ok, cool - that'll keep em off our backs for several months":lol:

Not really...
Even by economies of scale... upates in technology...
The prices will drop.

So the price points for consumers are set at the price point that the market will dictate.... ever wonder why only about 250k HR10-250's made it to market in 2 years?... $1,000 price point.

They didn't just pull the HR21 out of the air, because they had to reduce it's costs... it was very much in the plans for a while (I first heard about it, about 3 months after doing teh HR20-700 review).

It is not just a "design" in the wind as you are trying to portray it to be.

[Earl Bonovich]

Actually, I was speaking for the other folks ... let's see what was the number in the poll - oh yeah, over half of them preferred the Tivo. Let's just say that I speak for a significant number.:)

And if anything has told you... as the days go on... and the question keeps getting asked...

The "over half" preferred TiVo... continues to drop...
To the point, that a lot of those votes had "cavats".... and frankly in the last CE cycle... a lot of those cavates have been addressed.

So now that people are understanding the unit... and have broken away from their habits of an old system.... there are plenty that do prefer either one... and plenty that prefer the DVR+ series... and there will always be those that prefer TiVo, or Ultimate TV, or Replay or something else.

But at the end of the day... is there enough overwhelming demand... to go down the path of the cost, of maintaining multiple DVR platforms... relationships with other third party development systems... ect....

There are numerous upsides to owning their own DVR platform.... almost every other company out there does... and for very good reasons.

And the Current Comcast-TiVo is an example on why it is difficult to partner up on certain things.... TiVo says it is Comcast that is not ready for the role out... but in that time, Comcast's own DVR has suffered as well.

3+ years on that.....

If this was the TV Show SLIDERs it would be intrestin to go to the other timelines to see what things would be like if TiVo remained with DirecTV and was commisioned to build the MPEG-4 DVR....

But we will never know... this debate will continue just about for ever...
But doesn't change anything that is going on.

The DVR+ platform had a shaky start... but as with most things, it has matured and become a very solid system. And to most customers... that is all that matters today, and tomorrow... yesterday was yesterday.

[man_rob]

...Tivo...Tivo...Tivo...Tivo...

Are you still a DirecTV customer?

If so, why haven't you switched to another service?

Have you even owned a DirecTV DVR, or are you just making blind judgments with hearsay knowledge?

You don't have to get a DirecTV DVR.

You don't even have to be a DirecTV customer.

Why not just get a Series 3 Tivo, and Cable and be done with it?

Comcast has finally started distributing their TiVo powered DVR, why not do that?

Why do you choose to suffer with a company with which you are not satisfied?

When you run a TV service, then you can choose the business plan. DirecTV has come this far without your wisdom.

[Robert L]

So if that other site is correct, the price will drop for the HR20 & HR21 to $199 on Jan. 10th? Just curious because I'd just read over that quickly and had thought it might just be for the HR21. But I guess not long as long as they continue to build the HR20-100.

[RS4]

Every thing I've heard from sources tells me this was a very complex business relationship and negotiation that failed, likely at multiple levels. I do not have any particular information that tells me either company was "at fault". Just a meeting of the minds did not happen.

I do not believe that the matter was a simple as any of the sweeping generalizations I've read about. And no, I do not fully know, myself. I wasn't in either camps secret internal meetings to know.

So I do not fault Tivo per se for the failed negotiation/relationship with DIRECTV. I am faulting them for losing their control of the market in general thru a series of managerial mistakes, some of which only might be visible in hindsight. Anytime a company loses their grasp of a market they control, it means management missed the competition or the marketplace changes.

Happy, Merry Christmas!
Tom


Hey Tom, I definitely agree with you that Tivo seems to have blown some golden opportunities and have struggled ever since.

[jheda]

i Agree in regards to the latest ce. ..... With the iminent repair of slb I'll be able to forget that old TiVo girlfriend....
And if anything has told you... as the days go on... and the question keeps getting asked...

The "over half" preferred TiVo... continues to drop...
To the point, that a lot of those votes had "cavats".... and frankly in the last CE cycle... a lot of those cavates have been addressed.

So now that people are understanding the unit... and have broken away from their habits of an old system.... there are plenty that do prefer either one... and plenty that prefer the DVR+ series... and there will always be those that prefer TiVo, or Ultimate TV, or Replay or something else.

But at the end of the day... is there enough overwhelming demand... to go down the path of the cost, of maintaining multiple DVR platforms... relationships with other third party development systems... ect....

There are numerous upsides to owning their own DVR platform.... almost every other company out there does... and for very good reasons.

And the Current Comcast-TiVo is an example on why it is difficult to partner up on certain things.... TiVo says it is Comcast that is not ready for the role out... but in that time, Comcast's own DVR has suffered as well.

3+ years on that.....

If this was the TV Show SLIDERs it would be intrestin to go to the other timelines to see what things would be like if TiVo remained with DirecTV and was commisioned to build the MPEG-4 DVR....

But we will never know... this debate will continue just about for ever...
But doesn't change anything that is going on.

The DVR+ platform had a shaky start... but as with most things, it has matured and become a very solid system. And to most customers... that is all that matters today, and tomorrow... yesterday was yesterday.

[Drew2k]

I'm not quite sure what the point was, Drew, but I had that very thing and I dropped the health plan and stayed with the doctor - someone I could trust and thought had my interests at heart. Hmm, what does that remind me of?

Health Plan = DIRECTV
Old Doctor = HR10
New Doctor = HD DVR Plus

So ... why haven't you dropped DIRECTV yet? Instead, you beg and plead for them to bring back TiVo. Not going to happen. End the suffering - make a decision! Drop DIRECTV or get the HD DVR Plus.

Happy holidays!

Drew

[inkahauts]

Tom, that sorta proved my point. I've seen other entries about the breakup being Tivos' fault, but I don't believe anyone actually knows that for sure. A long time back I read speculation the Direct wanted more control of the box. It seems that Murdoch wanted control over the 30-second skip so that he could turn it off for certain channels - the idea being that he could then charge a network for turning off the skip so that the customers would then be forced to view the ads on the channel. But Tivo refused to bow to that kind of control. It's quite ironic if all of that is true, because of Direct now offering a 30-sec skip.

I believe that Direct created a mess because of greed. Direct used to be a great company in my mind and I would gladly recommend them, now it's the opposite. They have now become just another video supplier. They have let greed get in the way of greatness.

There is no doubt that Direct is growing due to the amount of HD channels - even if they are counted funny by Direct. I just wonder how much more they would have grown if they had concentrated on the channels and improved the Tivos.

In the mean time, Direct's customers suffer needlessly.


Yeah, were all suffering with our HR2Xs that have more capabilities than you HR10-250 (which still powers my last analogue tv set by the way)...

Why don't you go ahead and sign up for comcast cable so that you can use their new Tivo powered HD DVR that is just everywhere, 3 YEARS after being announced. Obviously Tivo always knows exactly what they are doing and makes sure that they get things done quickly so that their customers never suffer at all.....

I am so glad Directv didn't go with tivo, because we'd still be at least 2 more years away from recording anything in MPEG-4, or, you know, exactly where you are today with an HR10-250. HHHMMMM, who's not keeping pace?

[Earl Bonovich]

So if that other site is correct, the price will drop for the HR20 & HR21 to $199 on Jan. 10th? Just curious because I'd just read over that quickly and had thought it might just be for the HR21. But I guess not long as long as they continue to build the HR20-100.

Given that in the latest press releaes from DirecTV... they haev stated that there will be a $100 rebate on the HD-DVRs..

So that would be the $199 price.

The HD-DVRs will be the same price, regardless if they are the HR21 or the HR20

[narrod]

In the mean time, Direct's customers suffer needlessly.

Ronald, if you "suffer" because of TV you've bigger problems than a DVR platform.

[braven]

Ronald!

Your first thread!

Ronald, this is everyone.

Everyone, this is Ronald.

Welcome Ronald!

- Craig
Ronald is from the TiVoCentral forum. He knows all about the HR20 and HR21. He knows they are both the same price. He pops up about once every 3 months, makes about 10 attacks on the HR20, then is gone again. Shhh.


I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for posting this spoiler. No need to waste my time reading the entire thread.

Ok, now I'll get back to enjoying the wonderful MPEG4 channels. :D

[wingrider01]

Well that's a no-brainer - it was the customer!!:mad:

in your opinion , that is all - an opinion, not a statement of fact.

[BlueCan]

Health Plan = DIRECTV
Old Doctor = HR10
New Doctor = HD DVR Plus

So ... why haven't you dropped DIRECTV yet? Instead, you beg and plead for them to bring back TiVo. Not going to happen. End the suffering - make a decision! Drop DIRECTV or get the HD DVR Plus.

Happy holidays!

Drew

How about this...

Doctor = DirecTV
Health Plan 1 = HR10
Health Plan 2 = HD DVR+

My new health plan has different features from the old plan, but it still gets me my doctor. It added eyecare (more HD) and chiropractic (Networking/PiP). But it dropped dental (Dual Buffers), acupuncture (auto-recording suggestions) and the copay went up (some menu oddities).

I really used, and liked, my dental and acupuncture benefits. In fact, Dental is so important that I've goneout and gotten it anyway (painful-to-use workaround), Then again, I only moved because I needed eyecare--and its got a KILLER eyecare plan.

As it turns out, after 2 months with the HR20, that acupuncture benefit (which is unlikely to ever make it onto DVR+ due to patents) was something I used and liked a lot... <sigh>

-Patrick "I'm abivalent. If it weren't for the new channels, I'd see no real benefit in moving..."

[Drew2k]

How about this...

Doctor = DirecTV
Health Plan 1 = HR10
Health Plan 2 = HD DVR+

My new health plan has different features from the old plan, but it still gets me my doctor. It added eyecare (more HD) and chiropractic (Networking/PiP). But it dropped dental (Dual Buffers), acupuncture (auto-recording suggestions) and the copay went up (some menu oddities).

I really used, and liked, my dental and acupuncture benefits. In fact, Dental is so important that I've goneout and gotten it anyway (painful-to-use workaround), Then again, I only moved because I needed eyecare--and its got a KILLER eyecare plan.

As it turns out, after 2 months with the HR20, that acupuncture benefit (which is unlikely to ever make it onto DVR+ due to patents) was something I used and liked a lot... <sigh>

-Patrick "I'm abivalent. If it weren't for the new channels, I'd see no real benefit in moving..."The way I look at it, DIRECTV is much more the health plan than the doctor.. .

Like a health plan, DIRECTV clearly controls what benefits are available (prescription drugs, chiropractor, dental, etc. versus channel packages, VOD, DLB, Sunday ticket, etc.) through the participating partners (doctors & labs versus receiver models).

Like a health plan, DIRECTV clearly controls the prices you pay (premiums versus packages rates; copays versus mirror fees); any deductibles/lease upgrade fees; limits on specialist visits/limits on upgrades, etc.

That's just the way I see it ... :)

[hdtvfan0001]

How about Chocolate, Vanilla, and Strawberry....

...all unique flavors of something, and you can pick which one is your favorite. :D

The all cost the same, even though the calorie counts and amount of sugar may vary...

[chris0]

Does anyone else realize that this thread hasn't been on topic since the second post? Mind you, I commend the second poster, Craig, for seeing it for what it was from the get go, but this thread has zero to do with the lease price of an HR21. It seems to be designed by the OP to be a thread where Ronald (Hi Ronald, oh so glad you dropped by) could post about how bad DirecTV is for parting ways with TiVo and for the rest of us to get sucked into arguing with him about it.

Do we really need another thread like this? I vote for closure.

[hdtvfan0001]

Do we really need another thread like this? I vote for closure.
Second the motion. The question was answered a long time ago.

[houskamp]

Second the motion. The question was answered a long time ago.
+1.................
I'm just waiting for the real blowup when the rest of the HD (sports and the old HD chanels) goes by by....

[Sirshagg]

Given that in the latest press releaes from DirecTV... they haev stated that there will be a $100 rebate on the HD-DVRs..

So that would be the $199 price.

The HD-DVRs will be the same price, regardless if they are the HR21 or the HR20

Can you point me in the direction on more info fo this?

[tfederov]

+1.................
I'm just waiting for the real blowup when the rest of the HD (sports and the old HD chanels) goes by by....

Set a reminder to be here on opening day of the NFL season next year.

[RS4]

Given that in the latest press releaes from DirecTV... they haev stated that there will be a $100 rebate on the HD-DVRs..

So that would be the $199 price.

The HD-DVRs will be the same price, regardless if they are the HR21 or the HR20

Less features - same price?? Oh yeah, almost forgot - this is DirecTV, so there shouldn't be any surprise there

[Earl Bonovich]

Can you point me in the direction on more info fo this?

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=127160&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1088811&highlight=

It is possible it is only for new customers or just for those in the LA DMA.
But the way it is worded, it is possible it is for anyone.

[NYHeel]

For those of you playing along at home, the HR20/21 order backlog is 3 to 6 weeks in most areas. Any more and they would have to put new customers on the waitlist again.

7 attacks to go.

- Craig
I never understood this argument. The whole HR20s are selling out so it must be great argument doesn't make sense. HDTVs are being sold at higher rates than ever before and the HR20 is the only option. Of course more people than ever before are ordering them.

With that said, the Hr20 is an ok dvr. I've had one for over a year now and 2 for almost a year. I've gotten "used to it", but in some ways I haven't. I still don't like the UI and I still don't trust the reliability (but that is mostly because of the shaky Mpeg-4 HD channels). I still have 2 SD Directivos that are my backups and are used for excess storage and MRV. I have the every recording starts 30 seconds late bug so I need to go to my SD Tivo for virtually every recording. I joke that the Hr20 is designed to require a backup dvr so that Directv gets more revenue on the mirroring charge.

An example of the Mpeg-4 issues: For the second time in 3 weeks I recorded an NFL game on the NFL network HD channel. I came down in the middle of the game and found that I had a black screen with a 721 signal. As this was the second time this happened I called Directv and while on hold they told me to put in the 3 digit code on the screen and that actually worked in restoring the picture. The problem is that I missed the first half of the game.

Overall, the Hr20 is adequate, assuming they fix the late recording bug. If they add dual buffers it will become a little better. The thing is that the box has that buggy feel. It's hard to explain what I mean but it's things like the picture being black when you first turn it on or the picture being frozen when you first turn it on. My wife who knows nothing about this stuff just doesn't feel comfortable with the box.

I'll probably always prefer the tivo interface over the Hr20 interface but I can live with the Hr20. Now if they can fix the late recording bug and add useful features like DLB and MRV instead of relatively useless features like on demand then we might have a nice box.

[Milominderbinder2]

Set a reminder to be here on opening day of the NFL season next year.
I think the real explosion will come on April 2nd when the MLB EI subscribers find that they cannot see their HD games. That's just 100 days away.

- Craig

[tfederov]

I think the real explosion will come on April 2nd when the MLB EI subscribers find that they cannot see their HD games. That's just 100 days away.

- Craig

Oh yeah, forgot about that. This is the year the Tigers are going all the way (in HD!) :D

[Tom Robertson]

And NASCAR even sooner yet! :)

[tfederov]

And NASCAR even sooner yet! :)

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/tfederico/nascar-racing-fan-comedy-picture-Da.jpg

I'll just hold out for baseball if it's all the same. :D

[wagman]

Every DirecTv Plus DVR has had a 30 second slip (and soon a choice of slip or skip).

Is that a true statement? (The part about a choice) If so, when will this be a feature? I know there is nothing set in stone. I am just fishing for a ballpark figure like Q1 or Q2 of 2008.

...and add useful features like DLB and MRV instead of relatively useless features like on demand then we might have a nice box.

Yeah, I'm not so hot on the DOD either. I was looking forward to it, but they brought it out on an HD box with no HD content (or am I missing something?) Do they plan to provide HD content at some point? I still use it sometimes, but I'm not that thrilled with the current content. I haven't scanned through in a week or two, so maybe I just need to give it another try. I'm not dogging it, mind you, I'm just waiting for more content I like.

later,

wagman

[Earl Bonovich]

Is that a true statement? (The part about a choice) If so, when will this be a feature? I know there is nothing set in stone. I am just fishing for a ballpark figure like Q1 or Q2 of 2008.


It is already active in the current CE version... So it will be active soon, when the next national release goes out (probably in the next few weeks or even sooner).


Yeah, I'm not so hot on the DOD either. I was looking forward to it, but they brought it out on an HD box with no HD content (or am I missing something?) Do they plan to provide HD content at some point? I still use it sometimes, but I'm not that thrilled with the current content. I haven't scanned through in a week or two, so maybe I just need to give it another try. I'm not dogging it, mind you, I'm just waiting for more content I like.

later,

wagman

Yes... there was HD content when it was first introduced to the testing teams. And then just this past weekend, they added Evan Almighty to it for the weekend in HD.... so yes... HD is most definently planned.

[wagman]

It is already active in the current CE version... So it will be active soon, when the next national release goes out (probably in the next few weeks or even sooner).



Yes... there was HD content when it was first introduced to the testing teams. And then just this past weekend, they added Evan Almighty to it for the weekend in HD.... so yes... HD is most definently planned.


Good news on both accounts..thanks

Do you think this will eventually replace the PPV model D* has?

I'm sorry for steering so far off the original post.

wagman

[Earl Bonovich]

Good news on both accounts..thanks

Do you think this will eventually replace the PPV model D* has?

I'm sorry for steering so far off the original post.

wagman

Yes... you will probably see less of the 5 PPV channels, showing the same thing every 30 minutes... that they do now

[tonyd79]

Less features - same price?? Oh yeah, almost forgot - this is DirecTV, so there shouldn't be any surprise there

I recently bought an HD Tivo for cable that I have coming into my house.

I could have bought a Series 3 Tivo, which has more features. It would have cost slightly more.

BUT....Tivo charges the same per month (which is where they make their money, not on the hardware) for ANY Tivo that is not a supplier box (DirecTivo or Comcast Tivo).

Gee, different features, same price per month. Hmmm, any wonder, since it is Tivo?

Not a knock on Tivo. Just standard business, fella.

Oh, and Comcast will give you any of a variety of boxes when you ask for an HD or DVR box. All at the same price. Just business, fella.

Oh, and cell phone companies have several "free" phones all with different features. Why are they all the same price? And why does the service cost the same even though the phone has the same features?

[man_rob]

Less features - same price?? Oh yeah, almost forgot - this is DirecTV, so there shouldn't be any surprise there
Are you still a DirecTV customer?

If so, why haven't you switched to another service?

Have you even owned a DirecTV DVR, or are you just making blind judgments with hearsay knowledge?

You don't have to get a DirecTV DVR.

You don't even have to be a DirecTV customer.

Why not just get a Series 3 Tivo, and Cable and be done with it?

Comcast has finally started distributing their TiVo powered DVR, why not do that?

Why do you choose to suffer with a company with which you are not satisfied?

[bonscott87]

It's RS4! Awesome! Can't believe you're still with DirecTV after all this time of suffering. :)

[digger16309]

I wandered into this thread by accident and found it to be well worth my time. I was disappointed that the countdown didn't continue throughout the thread though.