Dish to Launch AMC-14 to 61.5 W - March 14th

[rocatman]

Dish recently filed with the FCC to launch the AMC-14 satellite to 61.5 W. Here is the FCC website address:

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/servlet/ib.page.FetchAttachment?attachment_key=-140501


An interesting part of the filing relates to the capabilities of the AMC-14 satellite. It can operate in regular power mode for all 32 DBS TPs or double power mode for 16 TPs. Don't know if it can do a mix of regular power and double power. The filing also requests moving E-3 to 61.35 W temporarily until it is moved to another location. The expected launch is March 2008.

[James Long]

Yay! A replacement for E3 is finally in writing. :)
Due to recent launch vehicle incidents involving the Proton rocket, the projected launch
date for AMC-14 is in March of 2008, and accordingly EchoStar respectfully requests timely
grant of the instant application.
The prior "double power" satellites could do a mixture. E12 can only cover 13 transponders ... if E3 leaves 61.5° AMC-15 will need to cover 19 transponders.

Thanks for the link.

[Stephen J]

I wonder, how this will affect HD LiL Capacity?

Also, If they will be getting additional HD capacity at 61.5, then what will they do to match at 129? Perhaps they might not use 129 anymore, and just use 61.5 for national HD. Perhaps they will use the new bandwith for HD LiLs, thus cancelling the need for matching bandwith at 129.

[Bill R]

Perhaps they might not use 129 anymore, and just use 61.5 for national HD.

That just isn't possible since 61.5 isn't available (or is VERY hard to receive because of the low angle) in the western U.S.

I'm sure this is just the first of several announcement that Echostar will have concerning satellites in 2008.

[James Long]

Any transponders that E* can activate at 61.5° will help. They have apparently been testing the spots on E12, which will open more space if they can double up on some transponders.

129° isn't going away ... the long term plan to use the Ceil satellite to serve the US is still in place. Perhaps E8 will go there to help out E5 temporarily after E11 is placed into service at 110°? Having E3 free to move elsewhere will likely help at 77° (Mexican slot).

As Bill R says ... the replacement of E3 is only the beginning ... stay tuned!

[Richard King]

I wonder, how this will affect HD LiL Capacity?It appears that there are no spotbeams on this satellite, so, the only way that it would have an effect on HDLIL would be through juggling channels that are on spotbeams to CONUS and then replacing those channels on the spot with LIL. I doubt that this will happen. :(

[Richard King]

Any transponders that E* can activate at 61.5° will help. They have apparently been testing the spots on E12, which will open more space if they can double up on some transponders.Are they currently using spots on E12 as fake conus beams?

[Richard King]

I see no indication of where this will be launched from? Any speculation about that?

[Stephen J]

My Angle on this is that I can not see 129 well from where I am in NE Ohio. I just hope that STO and the Cleveland Locals get move off of it, to something higher in the sky. 61.5 would be great, since that is where I get my current HD from, however; since E* put the HD RSNs for Cleveland on 129, I fear that they are in the mindset that 129 is good for everyone in the Cleveland market. I still have to wonder how the Erie market can effectively get their locals from 129, since they are east of me, and it is too low for me to get.

[James Long]

Are they currently using spots on E12 as fake conus beams?E12 (formerly R1) can operate each transponder as either a ConUS beam or as a group of spot beams. For example, if they "turn off" the ConUS use of transponder 1 they can light up 12 spot beams across the country that use transponder 1. (I doubt if they would attempt to use the California spots on E12, but they are there.)
http://ekb.dbstalk.com/pictures/rain1itu.gif

It is just like the spots on E7 and E8 (at 119° and 110° respectively). E* turns off the ConUS beams and uses the spots. On E7 they have turned off 5 ConUS transponders and have 14 spots (24 spot transponders) in use on those frequencies. The spots on E8 are currently off and the ConUS beams are on in their place.

[rocatman]

The launch of AMC-14 is currently being reported as being on a Russia Proton launch vehicle.

If they can do a mixture of single and double powered TPs than Dish could put 13 TPs in double power mode and have 6 in single power mode. Dish might be able to use 7/8 FEC (error correction) on the double powered mode TPs allowing for more useable bandwidth. This could enable Dish to put 7 or possibly 8 HD channels per TP.

I also think that the E-3 satellite is most like going to be moved to 77 W after AMC-14 gets launched. Another thought is if E-3 goes to 77 W and if E-4 could provide signals for 3 even TPs, then E-4 could be moved to 61.5 W and then AMC-14 could provide 16 TPs at double power.

[scooper]

Forget about using E-4 for anything - that bird is the flying dead. The only reason it and E-3 are getting moved to 77W is to allow some other entity to get what use they can out of it until it dies completely. I half suspect that is why E-1 and E2 are out at 148 - near or at end of useful service life.

[JohnH]

So, AMC-14 turns out to be a generic satellite. So much for all that speculation. :)

[James Long]

I half suspect that is why E-1 and E2 are out at 148 - near or at end of useful service life.E1 and E2 are at 148° because they were available at the time. :)
E* needs to replace them too ... with a satellite that also serves Alaska/Hawaii well.

So, AMC-14 turns out to be a generic satellite. So much for all that speculation. :)E* could use a few of those. :D

[rocatman]

So, AMC-14 turns out to be a generic satellite. So much for all that speculation. :)

I don't think I ever saw anything about AMC-14 having anything but CONUS beams. I have seen some evidence that it has a steerable configuration so that it could be deployed to several different slots and provide full coverage. Perhaps it can be configured to be used at 77 W so that it can provide full coverage to Mexico as well as the southern 2/3 of the CONUS for HD locals. Perhaps down the line Dish will provide a MPEG-4 only service with a combination of 61.5 W and 77 W to parts of the U.S.

[JohnH]

In order for it to go to 77W it would have to be a Mexican licensed satellite. Not likely.

[James Long]

In order for it to go to 77W it would have to be a Mexican licensed satellite. Not likely.Eventually E* will use 77° for service to the US (as well as to Mexico). I suspect that we won't see anything there until the end of 2008 (not that far away) and it most likely will be HD from 61.5 and more HD LIL markets. I don't expect a full "MPEG4 HD service" there, but I do expect use.

BTW: More about the AMC-14 application can be found at the FCC.
http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/ib/forms/reports/swr031b.hts?q_set=V_SITE_ANTENNA_FREQ.file_numberC/File+Number/%3D/SATLOA2007122100183&prepare=&column=V_SITE_ANTENNA_FREQ.file_numberC/File+Number
I'll dig out the footprint and try to post that later tonight.

[scooper]

E1 and E2 are at 148° because they were available at the time. :)
E* needs to replace them too ... with a satellite that also serves Alaska/Hawaii well.

E* could use a few of those. :D

Amen to all that :D

[James Long]

I've attached a diagram of where AMC-14 will cover. The blue outline is -6 dB, green is -10 dB and red is -20 dB. The satellite's boresite is in Florida. Obviously low look angles out west make 61.5° harder to see than for people in the east, but the "good" signal isn't limited to just the east coast. The uplink centers are also shown.

If you have Google Earth open the KMZ file in the zip for all the contours.

More dates from Schedule S -
Construction Completion: 1/31/2008
Estimated Launch: 3/12/2008 - 4/12/2008
Estimated Date in Service: 5/12/2008
Estimated Life: 15 years

AMC-14 has three sets of uplinks ... either from Glibert, from Cheyenne or from the ConUS beam. This will allow E* to choose which uplink they want to use for each AMC-14 downlink (all ConUS) and use uplinks from other centers to future 61.5° satellites without conflict. (With E12's design it will not immediately help.)

Enjoy!

[spear61]

Dish contracted for 100 percent of the AMC 14 capacity.

Who is going to use the the new AMC 21 at 125 W when it launches in fall of 2008?

[Gilitar]

Noob question here. How would a satellite at 61.5 help subscribers like me that have a dish pointed at 110 119 and 129?

[JohnH]

Dish contracted for 100 percent of the AMC 14 capacity.

Who is going to use the the new AMC 21 at 125 W when it launches in fall of 2008?

Probably is a KuFSS band satellite. Not DBS. Clue would be 24 X 36 mhz transponders.

[James Long]

Noob question here. How would a satellite at 61.5 help subscribers like me that have a dish pointed at 110 119 and 129?Sorry, AMC-14 will not directly help those without a 61.5° dish. E-11 will help and indirectly the ability to move E6 or E8 will help - but AMC-14 isn't 'your' bird.

[comizzou573]

how about E-11, when are they going to launch its always wind problems, i beat its a lie

[James Long]

how about E-11, when are they going to launch its always wind problems, i beat its a lieYep ... it is all a conspiracy.
Sea-Launch is losing millions by not launching satellites by choice and not because of the weather. :rolleyes:

More info: http://sea-launch.com/current_launch.htm

[Gilitar]

Sorry, AMC-14 will not directly help those without a 61.5° dish. E-11 will help and indirectly the ability to move E6 or E8 will help - but AMC-14 isn't 'your' bird.

So does this mean that the eastern part of the US will have more HD offerings than the central?

[Aransay]

so waht size of sih for a red area user like me (mexico city)
woduel tia hev spot or emxico ?

[James Long]

So does this mean that the eastern part of the US will have more HD offerings than the central?No. Perhaps more eastern cities will be added to the HD LIL list, but I can't see E* offering more national channels on 61.5° than 129°.

so waht size of sih for a red area user like me (mexico city)
woduel tia hev spot or emxico ?The intent of 61.5° is to deliver a signal to the US ... how much signal is available outside the US is irrelevant.

[Gilitar]

Thanks for the info.

[BobaBird]

How would a satellite at 61.5 help subscribers like me that have a dish pointed at 110 119 and 129?National HD channels on 129° are also carried on 61.5°. The new satellite will restore the use of transponders that have failed on E*3 and I believe will also put the 2 TPs used by Sky Angel under E* control. The capacity on 129° (IIRC it has some available) can then be used without excluding those who need 61.5°.

Looks like ~5/12 will mark the demise of Sky Angel via DBS.

[JohnH]

BobaBird, at least one Sky Angel programmer has been told 4/1/2008.

[Matt9876]

I've read several places about the 129 bird failing to hold it's orbit and because of excessive corrections the bird is almost out of fuel. life expectancy is about 15 months.

Any idea what bird will replace the one at the 129 slot ?

Matt

[Aransay]

129 woudlebe replced by ciel

[James Long]

129 woudlebe replced by cielYep. Lets hope there isn't a launch delay (although launches before then will free up a backup to E5).

[DIRECTV-11]

Let's ALL just hope and pray that 2008 is a friendlier year for satellite launches than 2007.

Can I get a moment of silence for my 2 fallen comrades please.

NSS-8 R.I.P. January 30, 2007 :angel:

JCSAT-11 R.I.P. September 6, 2007 :angel:

To a better and more successful New Year to all.

D11

:sunsmile:

[Bill R]

BobaBird, at least one Sky Angel programmer has been told 4/1/2008.

The last time I talked to Sky Angel I was told March 31 is going to be the last day of satellite service.

[Raymie]

Well, the E* split's coming soon too. (New year, new company; the split occurs 1-1-08!)

[James Long]

Well, the E* split's coming soon too. (New year, new company; the split occurs 1-1-08!)As being discussed in at least two threads on that topic. :)

The 61.5° licenses are owned by the new company (which will eventually be called Echostar Communications Corp, traded on Nasdaq as SATS).

[Mike D-CO5]

But obviously the 61.5 sat will be used with the DISH service even though it will be owned by the Echostar Communications corp. Or we would be hearing a lot of flack right now from everyone who has 61.5 sat in there dish configuration. I know I would hate to lose 61.5 for my hd since the 129 sat is PURE CRAP.

[Richard King]

Actually, since Echostar Communications will own the slot and the bird(s), they are going to kick Dish Network off the site and start their own DBS service at 61.5. ;)

[phrelin]

Hmmm. Well, its news if filing to launch a satellite is news. News like a sound bite is news - no information on E*'s plans for its use at all, just that if the rocket is available and doesn't blow up on the pad, we'll put a really cool piece of electronics in this location assuming someone approves this piece of paper.

Sort of like announcing they have a cure for a disease. No info on what disease....

[James Long]

The "disease" is E3 ... which as E*'s third oldest satellite. It is incapable of operating all of it's assigned transponders. AMC-14 will be capable of operating on all assigned transponders, with a bonus of being a higher powered satellite (less reception problems due to mis-aimed dishes, etc.)

[phrelin]

The "disease" is E3 ... which as E*'s third oldest satellite. It is incapable of operating all of it's assigned transponders. AMC-14 will be capable of operating on all assigned transponders, with a bonus of being a higher powered satellite (less reception problems due to mis-aimed dishes, etc.)
As an old hippie-techie I also think of the equipment problems as the "disease."

But as a patient in the HMO, all I know is I'm not getting enough air (HD programming) and Doctor Charlie seems to have a treatment plan - he's buying cool new equipment - but he has no bedside manner. I want to know what he's planning!;)

[James Long]

IMHO, he's planning an announcement in less than two weeks.

As far as AMC-14 is concerned, the document linked in the first post of this thread has good detail about why this satellite is needed and the potential increase in E* service when launched. In a nutshell, more room for HD.

[phrelin]

IMHO, he's planning an announcement in less than two weeks.
Well, I won't hold my breath, but that would be great.:D

[Henry]

Forgive my obvious ignorance, but what exactly does LIL (Local Into Local) mean? The glossary certainly defines it, but could someone we so Kind as to decypher that for me?

[Mike D-CO5]

Well from what I am hearing the new sat going to 61.5 will allow Echostar to turn on the spotbeams on the old Rainbow sat that they haven't been using upto now. So it looks like more hd locals will be going up.

[James Long]

Well from what I am hearing the new sat going to 61.5 will allow Echostar to turn on the spotbeams on the old Rainbow sat that they haven't been using upto now. So it looks like more hd locals will be going up.E* has already been testing the spots on E12. No real news there. :)

[FTA Michael]

Forgive my obvious ignorance, but what exactly does LIL (Local Into Local) mean? The glossary certainly defines it, but could someone we so Kind as to decypher that for me?LIL = Delivering local broadcast stations via satellite to local viewers. For example, delivering Denver local stations to folks in the Denver market using the dish without any over-the-air antennae at the viewers' homes.

[rocatman]

E* has already been testing the spots on E12. No real news there. :)

The real news is that over the past month or so, Dish has been submitting applications to the FCC for some new uplink dishes at different locations across the U.S. Some are at locations Dish already had uplink sites, others at sites that I wasn't aware they had sites like Orange, New Jersey. Besides the site in New Jersey, Dish has submitted applications for new uplink dishes in Virginia, Atlanta, Illinois, South Dakota and Texas. My guess would be that these are for the E-12 satellite spotbeams. It should be noted that Dish is already using 4 TPs at 61.5 W (in CONUS mode obviously) for HD locals. Dish could provide HD locals for many more cities just using these 4 TPs with E-12 spotbeams. When AMC-14 is launched and operational from 61.5 W, Dish will have use of 4 more TPs, the two from Sky Angel and the two that E-3 can't provide signal from currently. Actually just checking, it appears that E-3 is not providing signals from TPs 4, 6 and 28 so if that's the case then it would be a 5 TP gain.

[Mikey]

Related subject:

If Ciel-2 is a massive re-use spotbeam satellite, how is it going to provide the national HD that's on E5 now? Won't E* still need some CONUS transponders at 129? Obviously, E5 is dieing, so they can't use it for national HD for long. With the launch delays, it probably doesn't make sense now to put E11 at 129 temporarily. Will they move E3 over from 61.5 after AMC-14 goes up? E3 is sick too, you know.

Just wondering?

[Mike D-CO5]

E* has already been testing the spots on E12. No real news there. :)


Yes, but they will actually put locals on those spot beams and make them available to subs. Many of the spotbeams do more than the east coast. The old Rainbow satellite ( echostar 12) has spotbeams that can reach the west coast and many many other areas of the continental U.S. , so this means they could add hd locals to any where in the country using these spotbeams, not just the east coast. This is what I have been hearing . THey are only waiting for the amc 14 to go up at 61.5 to do this. ONce Echostar 3 is freed up , they could move it elsewhere to do some other functions , either as a back up or to use in another sat slot.

[rocatman]

Related subject:

If Ciel-2 is a massive re-use spotbeam satellite, how is it going to provide the national HD that's on E5 now? Won't E* still need some CONUS transponders at 129? Obviously, E5 is dieing, so they can't use it for national HD for long. With the launch delays, it probably doesn't make sense now to put E11 at 129 temporarily. Will they move E3 over from 61.5 after AMC-14 goes up? E3 is sick too, you know.

Just wondering?

We do know the Ciel-2 satellite will have spotbeams but I am sure it will also have CONUS beams or at least beams covering everywhere in the U.S. that has a reasonable Line of Sight. The agreement Dish has related to the Ciel-2 satellite is that they will at least have use of 16 of the 32 available TPs. They could have more if not all 32 TPs depending on the Canadian demand. I don't epect there to be much if any Canadian demand because the eastern part of Canada, where most of its population resides does not have a good Line of Sight for the 129 W slot. Since Dish is providing funding for some of the satellite, there might be some financial incentive for the Ciel-2 to be less useful for any Canadian user and more useful for use in the U.S. So Dish could use 10 - 12 TPs for spotbeams and the rest for national HD. The other obvious option is to use 148 W for national HD with 129 W using a single dish similar to the D1000 dish that gets signals from 110 W, 119 W and 129 W. Dish has licenses for all 32 TPs at 148 W.

The Line of Sight issue is also a problem with folks on the west coast trying to see the 61.5 W location. That is why it is unlikely that Dish will use the E-12 spotbeams for the west coast.

[James Long]

The old Rainbow satellite ( echostar 12) has spotbeams that can reach the west coast and many many other areas of the continental U.S. , so this means they could add hd locals to any where in the country using these spotbeams, not just the east coast.I am quite familiar with the capabilities of E12 (formerly R1). Check back a couple of years to when I first posted the uplink/downlink specifications right here on DBSTalk.
December 1st, 2004:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=331907&postcount=31
January 21st, 2005: (lots of detail)
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=353046&postcount=82

We've been speculating on how E* could use those spots for years ... including the challenges involved in needing uplinks all over the country. And when JohnH noticed the new TP numbers for 61.5° around the beginning of November and the new channels it appeared that testing was beginning.

Putting together pieces that have been out there for a while is not "news". Thanks rocatman for the mention of the uplink site licenses. Those are needed!

[RAD]

Many of the spotbeams do more than the east coast. The old Rainbow satellite ( echostar 12) has spotbeams that can reach the west coast and many many other areas of the continental U.S.

Just because E12 can reach the west coast doesn't mean that folks in the west won't have problems with line of site to E12 since it would be very low on the horizon. Don't know if it would be worth the problems that it would cause installers or unhappy customers if they can't see E12.

[phrelin]

I'd have to blast a tunnel through a mountain to get 61.5. I'd think most folks would be better off with something between 119 & 110 but I guess that's out of the question.

[James Long]

I doubt if anyone west of Chicago/Texas will need to point at 61.5°.
Even the use of the Chicago spots is questionable, in my opinion.

[GravelChan]

I just dished up from a 622 to a 722 today. I had a Dish 500 and a wing dish pointed at 61.5 ( was originally on 129). Anyhow, they swapped it out for a Dish 1000.2. Sounds like all HD installs around here are getting a 1000.2, central South Dakota. Sounded like they are trying to get everyone off of 61.5????

I didn't expect any new dishes, but I didn't argue as I like the 1000.2. I can hook up one of the 500's for 61.5 if I want as the 1000.2 can handle 4 sats without an external switch. Who knows, maybe they have future intentions of a wing dish for something.

[James Long]

FYI: I've updated my website to include the previously linked information about 61.5° (including spotbeam uplinks/downlinks).

http://jameslong.name/e615.html

[JohnH]

Thanks rocatman for the mention of the uplink site licenses. Those are needed!

Yeah thanks for the applications mention. I was wondering if there were licenses in place or not. Every so often, I check Tps 1 and 3 at 61.5 for indication of a signal. Without knowing the specifics of their plans, I may not be in any of the new spotbeams, when they lite up.

[James Long]

I have signal on TP3 (strength 27) which shows up "Locked - Name Not Acquired!".
It takes a few seconds to lock in on that number.
It still shows as "Transponder" not a "Spotbeam" above the transponder number.

For reference my TP5 is 27-30, TP7 is 29-30, TP9 is 32, TP25 is 40.
There is enough snow on the feedarm of my dish that it is likely blocking the signal.

[JohnH]

Well, that is a good indication. I get no signal on Tp1 or Tp3.

[James Long]

Based on the uplink centers I could find (and it appears that all of the uplinks were filed with complete permission requested to address any E* satellite, not just 61.5°):

New Braunfels TX would serve as the "Houston TX" uplink ...
Downlink: s16 Dallas (TP 1, 3, 7, 15, 17, 19, 23 at most)
Downlink: s17 Houston (TP 5, 9, 11, 13, 21 at most)

Monee IL would serve as the "Chicago IL" uplink ...
Downlink: s10 Detroit (TP 1, 3, 7, 15, 17, 19, 23 at most)
Downlink: s11 Chicago (TP 5, 9, 11, 13, 21 at most)

Orange NJ (currently a telemetry, tracking and control point) would serve as the "Bethpage NY" uplink ...
Downlink: s2 Boston (TP 5, 9, 11, 13, 21 at most)
Downlink: s3 Bethpage (TP 1, 3, 7, 15, 17, 19, 23 at most)

Mount Jackson VA ... I believe this is too far from an uplink target to help.
(225mi from Raleigh's target but only 273mi from the Orange NJ uplink.)
An uplink near Raleigh would serve Raleigh and Washington DC.
(Did I miss one in the filings?)

Atlanta GA ... NEW UPLINK
Downlink: s6 Atlanta (TP 1, 3, 7, 15, 17, 19, 23 at most)
Downlink: s8 Charleston (TP 5, 9, 11, 13 at most)

It LOOKS like Dallas, Detroit, New York and Atlanta will be the first 61.5° spots.

[Aransay]

in the case e3 is moved to 77 west

How many mpeg2 sd channel can in handle

When is quetzat 1 ready =? what si palnned cpacity

Hwta woule be the totalc ahnelcpacity for 77 west

i
hoep on de ces dishc larify 77west mexicao use

[Stephen J]

FYI: I've updated my website to include the previously linked information about 61.5° (including spotbeam uplinks/downlinks).

http://jameslong.name/e615.html

I don't understand. Why does each uplink center list so many different tps on it's spotbeam list? Can the Detroit Spotbeam be used for more than just Detroit? What about all of the other tps that are listed from the same uplink center?

[James Long]

I don't understand. Why does each uplink center list so many different tps on it's spotbeam list? Can the Detroit Spotbeam be used for more than just Detroit? What about all of the other tps that are listed from the same uplink center?The satellite was designed by Cablevision/Rainbow DBS for their DBS service within the limits of their license (plus the two unassigned transponders at 61.5°). It does seem to be overpowered for their task.

A rough coverage map is available here (http://ekb.dbstalk.com/pictures/rldbs1.gif) on the Echostar Knowledge Base coverage maps page (http://ekb.dbstalk.com/satmaps.htm). I have not been able to find the detailed information needed to draw a more accurate map. (Such as the ones I have for AMC-14, E11, E10 spots, E8 and E7.)

With the current arrangement (up to four networks per market, up to six HD channels per spotbeam transponder) it opens up a lot of capacity for many markets around the target area. For example, Detroit, Lansing, Toledo, Cleveland and Columbus could be on the "Detroit" transponders (perhaps even Grand Rapids if the curve on the map is accurate). All uplinked from Monee Illinois near Chicago.

I expect at first we will see only one or two transponders per spot lit up ... just enough to get the ConUS HD locals off of other transponders ... then other markets will fill in. I doubt we will see Chicago move over to 61.5° but the spot and uplink center are there.

If E* were designing this satellite for today's market it would likely have spots in entirely different places (completely blanketing the eastern US with spots and using ALL uplink transponders to avoid needing to set up new uplink centers to run the spots). This is someone else's design ... it is good to see it put to use.

[Stephen J]

The satellite was designed by Cablevision/Rainbow DBS for their DBS service within the limits of their license (plus the two unassigned transponders at 61.5°). It does seem to be overpowered for their task.

A rough coverage map is available here (http://ekb.dbstalk.com/pictures/rldbs1.gif) on the Echostar Knowledge Base coverage maps page (http://ekb.dbstalk.com/satmaps.htm). I have not been able to find the detailed information needed to draw a more accurate map. (Such as the ones I have for AMC-14, E11, E10 spots, E8 and E7.)

With the current arrangement (up to four networks per market, up to six HD channels per spotbeam transponder) it opens up a lot of capacity for many markets around the target area. For example, Detroit, Lansing, Toledo, Cleveland and Columbus could be on the "Detroit" transponders (perhaps even Grand Rapids if the curve on the map is accurate). All uplinked from Monee Illinois near Chicago.

I expect at first we will see only one or two transponders per spot lit up ... just enough to get the ConUS HD locals off of other transponders ... then other markets will fill in. I doubt we will see Chicago move over to 61.5° but the spot and uplink center are there.

If E* were designing this satellite for today's market it would likely have spots in entirely different places (completely blanketing the eastern US with spots and using ALL uplink transponders to avoid needing to set up new uplink centers to run the spots). This is someone else's design ... it is good to see it put to use.

The fact that you mentioned Cleveland just made my New Year :) What do you think E* would do with the additional bandwith at 118.7 if they move some of the HD LiLS Off of it? Would they add additional markets that don't have a spot?

[James Long]

The fact that you mentioned Cleveland just made my New Year :)Just looking at what MAY be in that spot. :D

What do you think E* would do with the additional bandwith at 118.7 if they move some of the HD LiLS Off of it? Would they add additional markets that don't have a spot?Personal opinion only, but I do not expect HD to remain on 118.7°. I expect it will be all internationals.

[Stephen J]

The fact that you mentioned Cleveland just made my New Year :) What do you think E* would do with the additional bandwith at 118.7 if they move some of the HD LiLS Off of it? Would they add additional markets that don't have a spot?

Does E* need to wait for AMC 14 to arrive at 61.5 before they can turn on the spots on E12? Just wondering if the Cleveland HD LiLs will be up in time for the season premier of Lost.:D

[James Long]

They should not have to wait. Several of the transponders that will apparently be replaced by spots are already offline. They should be able to power a few spots on those transponders without turning off any of the other ConUS feeds on E12.

That being said, I wouldn't hold my breath. :D

[madisonjar]

when do we expect this to happen? and are we even sure cleveland is going to 61.5? it has two rsns on 129, what happens to those? just wondering as I would love to have my cleveland locals up in time for lost as well!

[Stephen J]

when do we expect this to happen? and are we even sure cleveland is going to 61.5? it has two rsns on 129, what happens to those? just wondering as I would love to have my cleveland locals up in time for lost as well!

While nothing is for certin. If you look at the markets that were in the press relese from the CES, they all fit with the coverage of the spots on E12. As far as STO and FSN OH go, I would assume that they would mirror them to 61.5, since new installs would probably not get a Dish 1000, and would instead get a Dish 500 and a Dish 300. They would proabbly still want to keep them at 129 as well, since other areas of the state like Columbus get their locals from 129.

[madisonjar]

that would be ideal as I cant see the 129 from where I am in!

[rocatman]

Dish has filed for a new uplink site in Jackson, Mississippi. Probably another E-12 spotbeam uplink site. Here is the FCC webiste address:

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/servlet/ib.page.FetchAttachment?attachment_key=618302

[Stephen J]

Dish has filed for a new uplink site in Jackson, Mississippi. Probably another E-12 spotbeam uplink site. Here is the FCC webiste address:

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/servlet/ib.page.FetchAttachment?attachment_key=618302

What program do you need to read/open this?

[James Long]

Perhaps a bad link? Here's the application (in PDF):
http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/servlet/ib.page.FetchAppPDF?attachment_key=618301

New 13.2 Meter Earth Station Antenna at Jackson, MS
1230 Raymond Road, Jackson MS 39204
32 °17 ’15.5 "N 90 °14 ’34.0 "W

[rocatman]

March 14th is the scheduled date for the AMC-14 launch on a Proton.

[James Long]

:joy: :joy: :joy: :joy: :joy:

[tnsprin]

What program do you need to read/open this?

Shouldn't need any.

[JohnH]

Adobe Reader

[rockstx]

I live in the US Virgin Islands. I get E-3 but not E-12 from 61.5 with a 1.8M dish. Will AMC-14 keep its footprint within the Virgin Islands? Hopefully we will get more HD programs..

[James Long]

See:
http://www.dbstalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11533&d=1198714909

The Virgin Islands fall into an area between -10 and -15 dB (off of full power). Not bad.

[rocatman]

AMC-14 launch slipped a day to March 15th. Beware the Ides of March.

[Jim5506]

Et tu Brute!

[GTAE86]

I saw lots of posts saying things like "surely they will not move services to a satellite we cannot see in my part of the country"....

Of course they will! I am sure there are good reasons 105 had to go, but moving central VA locals to 129?!

Before that move, I had never heard of avsforums, satelliteguys.us or dbstalk. Now, I am reading them all to learn as much as I can to deal with LOS problems where I live.

I switched to Dish because they offered LIL when DirectTV did not. Now, they really do not offer that to many customers in the area.

[rocatman]

Dish has applied to the FCC to test the AMC-14 satellite at 56 W. This should allow Dish to get AMC-14 operational fairly quickly after on-orbit testing is complete because it only has 5.5 degrees to move. Dish could potentially perform some interference testing in conjunction with 61.5 W to demonstrate the viability of tweener slots. Here's the FCC website address:

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/servlet/ib.page.FetchAttachment?attachment_key=-143306

[spear61]

SES News Release 20/2/2008 AMC 14 launch and details

http://www.ses.com/ses/siteSections/mediaroom/Latest_News/index.php?pressRelease=/pressReleases/pressReleaseList/08-02-20/index.php

[rocatman]

Well it appears the DirecTV-11 launch by Sea Launch on the Zenit launch vehicle is being delayed. There appears to be a dbate whether the delay is the result of a launch vehicle problem or a problem with the satellite. From a Dish point of view, let's hope it is a problem with the satellite so that the E-11 launch is not delayed further. Perhaps a DirecTV-11 satellite problem would allow the E-11 launch to move up in the Sea Launch que. Regardless it looks like the AMC-14 satellite probably will be launched before the DirecTV-11 satellite.

[James Long]

Well it appears the DirecTV-11 launch by Sea Launch on the Zenit launch vehicle is being delayed. There appears to be a dbate whether the delay is the result of a launch vehicle problem or a problem with the satellite. From a Dish point of view, let's hope it is a problem with the satellite so that the E-11 launch is not delayed further. Perhaps a DirecTV-11 satellite problem would allow the E-11 launch to move up in the Sea Launch que. Regardless it looks like the AMC-14 satellite probably will be launched before the DirecTV-11 satellite.D11 has already been loaded on the launcher. It would have to be quite a failure to get them to unload it and put any other satellite there. DISH needs Sea Launch to get D11 out of the way! (Even if it means launching it.)

http://sea-launch.com/current_launch.htm

[space86]

Is the Sat still going to be launch on March 15th ?

[James Long]

Last we heard AMC-14 will still launch on time.

[rocatman]

Actually the launch has been moved back up to its original launch date of March 14th.

[James Long]

Is it just a matter of time (what time it is there vs here)?

[James Long]

Is it just a matter of time (what time it is there vs here)?Answering my own question:
http://www.spaceflightnow.com/tracking/index.html
March 14 Proton • AMC 14
Launch time: 2318 GMT (7:18 p.m. EDT)
Launch site: Baikonur Cosmodrome, Kazakhstan

An International Launch Services Proton rocket with a Breeze M upper stage will launch the AMERICOM 14 communications spacecraft. The Lockheed Martin-built satellite will be used for EchoStar's DISH Network service.

That would place the launch at 5:18 a.m., local time.

[jclewter79]

How long will it take from the time of the launch for the bird to be fully operational.

[James Long]

Likely a month. DISH has asked for 60 days for testing at another location.

[JohnH]

The testing location is 56w. May take a while as that is a good location to evaluate tweener service as well as test the satellite. :)

Also, that new planer antenna may get a shakedown.

[JohnH]

Actually the launch has been moved back up to its original launch date of March 14th.

Depends on whose clock you are looking at. March 15 in Baikonur.

[peak_reception]

Why would a problem with a DirecTV Sea Launch delay a Dish AMC land launch from Kazakhstan.? Can anyone supply a good link to explain more about these things? Thx.

[James Long]

Two unique systems with their own problems.

Sea Launch was delayed because of their launch pad problem early last year ... E11 is still slated to go up from Sea Launch likely right after D11 is launched. The ILS launch of AMC-14 was supposed to go up in November but was delayed independently by problems with that launch system.

Two launches that would have helped DISH last year (albeit late last year for AMC-14) have been delayed. But DISH is getting back on track.

[peak_reception]

Got it. Thanks. I confused AMC-14 with E11. Actually the whole thing is new and confusing to me. But I'm learning.... Bottom Line: More E* satellites in orbit means more HD capacity. Hopefully the March 14/15 launch will go smoothly.

[alxlevin]

"Spacecraft fueling operations were completed on schedule and without incident. This is a major milestone on the launch campaign calendar, because it signals the end of satellite stand-alone testing, and the approach of joint operations. It was also another chance to use many of the Lockheed Martin and SES Americom supplies, those supplies being tri-tip, roast beef, chicken wings, ham, etc. As usual, the post-fueling gathering at the Polyot Hotel was a huge success.

This is an exciting time for all teams assembled here at the Baikonur Cosmodrome. It's time to mate the spacecraft to the upper stage. It will now be mounted to the payload adapter assembly, the PLA. This SC/PLA assembly will then be lifted onto the Breeze M main engine. After a host of electrical testing verifications, the halves of the payload fairing (PLF) will be installed, completing the assembly of what is known as the Upper Stage (US). This is the ultimate in joint operations as ILS, KhSC and Lockheed Martin CSS personnel work closely together to ensure proper handling and mating of the hardware.

With the end of spacecraft stand-alone operations, and the successful mating of the SC to the PLA, it is time to say goodbye to the mechanical team from Lockheed Martin CSS. Congratulations to all of them for their professionalism, their work ethics and their successes to date. But as we wave goodbye to them, we welcome the Lockheed bus specialists, the electrical team, as they come back to the cosmodrome for the final leg of satellite testing prior to the launch. ":hurah:

[dahenny]

:up: :up: :up:

:joy:

[bruin95]

Perhaps they might not use 129 anymore, and just use 61.5 for national HD.

If they did that, EVERY sub would need TWO dishes to receive all of their programming. Not gonna happen.

[charlesrshell]

If they did that, EVERY sub would need TWO dishes to receive all of their programming. Not gonna happen.

Well it happened to me. I need two dishes for everything I want, and I don't have any International packages. The Pentagon Channel (9405) is only on 61.5 and 148. It is in the program packages as available. In my area, the 1000+ (110, 119, 118.7, 129) is required. I have to leave 129 disconnected unless I want to watch the Muti-Sport Pak. I hope when they get all the changes done, I can get everything on four birds instead of five. I really wish Dish would come out with a five satellite capable switch.

[dahenny]

...I have to leave 129 disconnected...

Charles, there is a way to have ALL 5 satellites hooked up.

1. Connect one output from the DPP44 to the "1 to dish" input on a DP21.
2. Connect the 5th satellite location (61.5) to the "2 to dish" input on the DP21
3. Connect the receiver to the "To receiver" output on the DP21.

This set-up is not compatible with separators. You would need a DP21 for every tuner that you wanted to have the 5 sat solution.

example: any dual tuner receiver would have to have 2 separate cable runs.

With 1 DP-21, you can run a single cable to 1 single tuner receiver.
With 2 DP-21's, you can run 2 cables, 1 each to two single tuner receivers; or
with 2 DP-21's, you can run 2 cables to 1 dual tuner receiver.

Italicized info source: SmityWhity and WEA

[charlesrshell]

Charles, there is a way to have ALL 5 satellites hooked up.

1. Connect one output from the DPP44 to the "1 to dish" input on a DP21.
2. Connect the 5th satellite location (61.5) to the "2 to dish" input on the DP21
3. Connect the receiver to the "To receiver" output on the DP21.

This set-up is not compatible with separators. You would need a DP21 for every tuner that you wanted to have the 5 sat solution.

example: any dual tuner receiver would have to have 2 separate cable runs.

With 1 DP-21, you can run a single cable to 1 single tuner receiver.
With 2 DP-21's, you can run 2 cables, 1 each to two single tuner receivers; or
with 2 DP-21's, you can run 2 cables to 1 dual tuner receiver.

Italicized info source: SmityWhity and WEA

Thanks for your help. dehenny. I knew about that procedure, but do not want to have to run the second coax and having to have two DP-21s, etc. But, with all the changes coming up I may go ahead and do as you suggest. Maybe they can tuck the Pentagon channel on some other satellite, especially since it is listed in the AT-100 Pak and up. We will see. Are the DP-21 switches still around to purchase? Thanks again for your help.

[James Long]

I'm kinda curious myself what happened to the "more inputs than DPP44" switch.

It looks like DISH is handling it through moving channels and consolidation instead of increasing the number of dishes and inputs needed. We're in a flex period now as things move around. I believe you will find that no system will need more than four inputs by the end of the year (or perhaps next year).

[charlesrshell]

I'm kinda curious myself what happened to the "more inputs than DPP44" switch.

It looks like DISH is handling it through moving channels and consolidation instead of increasing the number of dishes and inputs needed. We're in a flex period now as things move around. I believe you will find that no system will need more than four inputs by the end of the year (or perhaps next year).

OK, thanks James Long. That is what I am hoping for too. Hopefully not too much longer to wait till we find out.

[QasDishGuy]

I have it that there will be two different lineups for pretty much the entire US. The thought process being that installers shouldn't have to carry a trailer of equipment. As such a large portion of older switches and lnbs have been completely discontinued but on the horizon I expect this:

Two HD setups, one for east coast, one for west coast.

East coast uses 77?, 61.5, and there's one in between. One of the three will provide locals for the most part.

West coast uses 110,119,129 (129 being a new bird replacement)

So that leaves two different dish types. the 1000.2 and another 1000 dish for the east coast?

That's whats on the mill. And I haven't heard where the "big split" will be.

[charlesrshell]

I have it that there will be two different lineups for pretty much the entire US. The thought process being that installers shouldn't have to carry a trailer of equipment. As such a large portion of older switches and lnbs have been completely discontinued but on the horizon I expect this:

Two HD setups, one for east coast, one for west coast.

East coast uses 77?, 61.5, and there's one in between. One of the three will provide locals for the most part.

West coast uses 110,119,129 (129 being a new bird replacement)

So that leaves two different dish types. the 1000.2 and another 1000 dish for the east coast?

That's whats on the mill. And I haven't heard where the "big split" will be.

So where do you think the dividing line will be for the East and West?

[P Smith]

61.5W could hold all HD channels alone when SA will gone and E3 will be replaced by AMC-14. E12 will run with spotbeams and full load of AMC-14.

[James Long]

The "one in between" (72°) isn't really needed. As long as DISH doesn't fool around with QPSK/MPEG2 at 61.5° a lot can be put in a little space. It does look like they are going with 8PSK/MPEG2 for the SDs (gotta stay compatible with the 311/522/625 receivers or replace them all with ViPs).

There are two things I hope for:
1) That whatever DISH does on the wings it ties in with the main satellites at 119° and 110° so people with older receivers can use the QPSK/MPEG2 signals from the "old" satellites and have their ViP receivers use any new HD channels on the new satellites.
2) That they continue to transmit HD channels in SD when available. While I appreciate and view HD networks I don't always want to waste the DVR space recording in HD ... I'd like to keep the SD alternatives, please! (This request should not be a problem if SDs are there for the 311/522/625 receivers.)

A third thing I hope for is a big flashy fully disclosing press release ... but I have a better chance of getting a pony. :)

[QasDishGuy]

one of the 3 on each side will provide all locals (primarily in HD) for most of their major markets, so basically a dedicated bird for the most part for east coast and one for west coast. Additionally there's no rule that you can't use an east coast set up for west coast, except that you would be short on locals. So for the middle at least it gives two complete options to avoid LOS issues. I'm pretty psyched about this, and they are trying to phase out some equipment which is a huge plus for the installers.

[rey_1178]

how much is it to make one of these satellites? $:confused:

[James Long]

$100 million used ... $200 million new.
How complicated do you want the satellite to be?

It all plays into cost.

[lionsrule]

So let me get this straight....Let's say the majority of new hd launch July 1st...that day comes and dish makes a big deal about a dozen plus NEW HD's. I go to check 'em out but they aren't showing up on my receiver. I call dish. After talking to several uninformed csrs it is finally figured out that I need a new dish AND a switch. Then I get to wait for dish to schedule an install. I have to take time off of work. And finally weeks/months later I get my new channels. How, for the love of god, does this make sense?

[James Long]

Unless it is your locals don't worry about it.

New national HD will be on 129° and 61.5°, or 110°.
If you have HD today you need to have 110° and one of the others.

If your locals do show up on the "other" satellite it won't be "a dozen new HDs" ... in the Grand Rapids area it will likely be three (LIN/WOOD TV 8 NBC being an expected holdout).

You should not need a new switch ... you may need a second dish. If you have a DP44 you're set ... the several variations of Dish 1000s are also compatible with replacing the 129° feed with a 61.5° feed and 61.5° dishes are trivial.

It certainly won't be "weeks/months" to get a 61.5° dish installed unless you simply make yourself unavailable for the installation.

[alebowgm]

So let me get this straight....Let's say the majority of new hd launch July 1st...that day comes and dish makes a big deal about a dozen plus NEW HD's. I go to check 'em out but they aren't showing up on my receiver. I call dish. After talking to several uninformed csrs it is finally figured out that I need a new dish AND a switch. Then I get to wait for dish to schedule an install. I have to take time off of work. And finally weeks/months later I get my new channels. How, for the love of god, does this make sense?

Schedule your install today and make sure is gets done on the weekend then... that will solve your issue...

[lionsrule]

...my point being...how am I even supposed to know if I need a sat pointing at 61.5. I am certainly not going to have one put up months in advance without knowing if I need one or not. I do not want TWO sats on my roof. Currently, I have two 622's and my dish 1000 can power them just fine WITHOUT a switch, I do not have one. Meaning I'll need a switch also.....

[James Long]

You are borrowing problems from the future and worrying much too soon!

If you have just a Dish1000 with a DPP Twin and a separate DP LNB next to it for 129° all the installer has to do is run the feed from your new 61.5° dish (if needed) into that DPP Twin instead of the 129° feed. No switch required. If DISH decides in install in a different way the switch will be included.

You don't need to do that months in advance nor will not doing that change cost you dozens of channels. We're talking at best four channels (if LIN cooperates) and we'll know for sure when the channels begin testing. If you want the best deal on a dish you will have to wait until DISH acknowledges the channels will be on 61.5° (if that is where they are going). If you want to panic you're doing a good job!

[Mikey]

... If you want the best deal on a dish you will have to wait until DISH acknowledges the channels will be on 61.5° (if that is where they are going). If you want to panic you're doing a good job!If you really do want to panic, here's some more fuel for the fire:
... EchoStar Corporation (“EchoStar”) hereby files
this application for special temporary authority (“STA”) to operate EchoStar 6 as a U.S.-licensed satellite serving the U.S. at 77° W.L. for 180 days. ...

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/servlet/ib.page.FetchAttachment?attachment_key=-144793

[James Long]

Ah the possibilities!

DISH needs to prove no interference with the Canadian DBS satellites before they can serve Michigan from there. E6 is a good satellite to put there ... not a lot of problems with that one, and E8 can become the "in orbit spare" for 110°.

Upon grant of this STA request, EchoStar will operate the EchoStar 6 satellite at 77° W.L. according to the following conditions:

1. While EchoStar 6 is operating at 77° W.L., operations shall be on a non-harmful interference basis, meaning that EchoStar shall not cause interference to, and shall not claim protection from, interference caused to it by any other lawfully operating satellites.

2. In the event that any harmful interference is caused while the satellite is operating at 77° W.L., EchoStar shall cease operations immediately upon notification of such interference and shall inform the Commission immediately, in writing, of such event.

The down side is that this means E6 won't be going to 129° to help out before Ceil-2 gets there.

[JohnH]

Wonder where the Alaska/Hawai'i lobe from EchoStar 6 will fall? Maybe miss the earth altogether. :)

[James Long]

E6 at 77° coverage taken from the FCC filing.

It doesn't look too good for the northern US ... including Michigan (where lionsrule is from).
The Alaskan/Hawaiian lobes cover space. :)

[lazierfan]

With the excellent updates from Alxlevin, I guess this is redundant, but I'll post it anyway:
LOCKHEED MARTIN-BUILT AMC-14 SATELLITE READY FOR LAUNCH FROM BAIKONUR COSMODROME

NEWTOWN, Pa., March 12, 2008 -- The AMC-14 communications satellite, designed and built by Lockheed Martin [NYSE: LMT] for SES AMERICOM, an SES company (Euronext Paris and Luxembourg Stock Exchange: SESG),is ready for launch on March 15 from the Baikonur Cosmodrome aboard a Proton/Breeze M launch vehicle provided by International Launch Services. AMC-14, which is scheduled to launch at 5:18 a.m. in Baikonur (March 14 at 7:18 p.m. EDT), will be located at orbital location 61.5 degrees West Longitude.

AMC-14 will provide direct-to-home broadcast services across the continentalU.S., Mexico and Central America for EchoStar Communications Corp., which has leased the entire capacity of AMC-14.Based on Lockheed Martin's A2100AX platform, AMC-14 features 32 high-power Ku-band transponders in the BSS frequency band, each utilizing 24 MHz bandwidth.
The spacecraft antenna is designed for operation over two separate orbital arcs: 61.5 degrees West Longitude to 77 degrees West Longitude or 110 degrees West Longitude to 148 degrees West Longitude, providing SES AMERICOM extensive flexibility in meeting their customer's business plans.

AMC-14 also carries a demonstration receive active phased array (APA) payload that allows coverage to be reshaped on orbit. The spacecraft incorporates the highest levels of redundancy on core components such as amplifiers, receivers, command and control components and on-board computers.

AMC-14 is expected to provide more than 15 years of service life and is the 17th Lockheed Martin-built A2100 series spacecraft designed, built and launched for SES companies.In 2007, Lockheed Martin successfully launched ASTRA 1L for SES ASTRA and SIRIUS 4 for SES SIRIUS. AMC-14 also marks the 36th A2100 spacecraft designed and built by Lockheed Martin for customers worldwide.

The Lockheed Martin A2100 geosynchronous spacecraft series is designed to meet a wide variety of telecommunications needs including Ka-band broadband and broadcast services, fixed satellite services in C-band and Ku-band, high-power direct broadcast services using the Ku-band frequency spectrum and mobile satellite services using UHF, L-band, and S-band payloads. The A2100's modular design features a reduction in parts, simplified construction, increased on-orbit reliability and reduced weight and cost.

The A2100 spacecraft's design accommodates a large range of communication payloads. This design modularity also enables the A2100 spacecraft to be configured for missions other than communication. The A2100 design is currently being adapted for geostationary earth orbit (GEO)-based earth observing missions and is currently the baselined platform for Lockheed Martin's Geostationary Operational Environmental Satellite Series-R (GOES-R) proposal. The A2100 also serves as the platform for critical government communications programs including Advanced Extremely High Frequency and Mobile User Objective System and is the foundation for Lockheed Martin's Transformational Satellite Communications System (TSAT) offering for the U.S. Government.

About SES AMERICOM

As the leading supplier of satellite services in the U.S., SES AMERICOM
(www.ses-americom.com) serves broadcasters, cable programmers, aeronautical and maritime communications integrators, internet service providers, mobile communications networks, government agencies, educational institutions, carriers and secure global data networks with efficient communications and content distribution solutions. The company, recognized as a major innovator of advanced satellite communications services, operates a fleet of 15 spacecraft in orbital positions predominantly providing service throughout the Americas. In addition, AMERICOM Government Services (AGS), a wholly-owned subsidiary, is dedicated to providing satellite-based communications solutions to both civilian and defense agencies of the U.S. Government.

SES AMERICOM is an SES company (Euronext Paris and Luxembourg Stock
Exchange: SESG). SES wholly owns three market-leading satellite operators, SES ASTRA in Europe, SES AMERICOM in North America, and SES NEW SKIES, which provide global coverage and connectivity. The company also holds strategic participations in SES SIRIUS in Europe, Ciel in Canada and QuetzSat in Mexico. SES provides outstanding satellite communications solutions via a fleet of 38 satellites in 25 orbital positions around the globe. Additional information on SES is available at:www.ses.com.

About Lockheed Martin

Lockheed Martin Commercial Space Systems is a unit of Lockheed Martin Space Systems Company. Lockheed Martin Space Systems Company, a major operating unit of Lockheed Martin Corporation, designs, develops, tests, manufactures and operates a full spectrum of advanced-technology systems for national security, civil and commercial customers. Chief products include human space flight systems; a full range of remote sensing, navigation, meteorological and communications satellites and instruments; space observatories and interplanetary spacecraft; laser radar; fleet ballistic missiles; and missile defense systems.

Headquartered in Bethesda, Md., Lockheed Martin employs about 140,000 people worldwide and is principally engaged in the research, design, development, manufacture, integration and sustainment of advanced technology systems, products and services. The Corporation reported 2007 sales of $41.9 billion.

[rey_1178]

$100 million used ... $200 million new.
How complicated do you want the satellite to be?

It all plays into cost.

thanks jj :ringo:

[alxlevin]

Posted by The Khrunichev Communications Team at 12:38 p.m. Moscow, Tuesday on 11 March 2008

The roll-out of the fully assembled Proton Breeze M launcher, carrying the AMC -14 spacecraft, to Launch Pad 39 commenced early in this morning (at 6:30 a.m. Baikonur time). By 10 a.m. the rocket was erected in vertical position. Once installed onto the pad, the Proton was enclosed inside a mobile service tower.

Planned on–pad operations are now in progress on the subsystems of the integrated space launcher. The State Commission will meet again on Friday to certify the readiness of the Proton Breeze M vehicle and flight control team for the launch. The liftoff of the Proton Breeze M launch vehicle with the AMC 14 spacecraft remains scheduled for March 15, at 5:18 am Baikonur Standard Time (March 14, 7:18pm EDT).

[rocatman]

Russian Website with pictures:

http://www.roscosmos.ru/NewsDoSele.asp?NEWSID=2997

[James Long]

FYI: If you want Google to make it into broken English ...
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.roscosmos.ru%2FNewsDo Sele.asp%3FNEWSID%3D2997&langpair=ru%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

Nice pictures!

Earlier assembly pictures:
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.roscosmos.ru%2FNewsDo Sele.asp%3FNEWSID%3D2997&langpair=ru%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

[rocatman]

FCC approves the launch of AMC-14, testing at 56.5 W and then operating at 61.5 W. It should be noted that Dish did not request to use AMC-14 for TPs 23 and 24, the two TPs that Dish only has a STA for. Here's the FCC website address:

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/servlet/ib.page.FetchAttachment?attachment_key=629024

[James Long]

Just in time for the Friday evening launch! :D

[BobaBird]

James, the "earlier assembly pictures" link is the same as the first.

[James Long]

Sorry ...
Try this: http://64.233.179.104/translate_c?hl=en&langpair=ru%7Cen&u=http://www.roscosmos.ru/NewsDoSele.asp%3FNEWSID%3D2969

[rey_1178]

Sorry ...
Try this: http://64.233.179.104/translate_c?hl=en&langpair=ru%7Cen&u=http://www.roscosmos.ru/NewsDoSele.asp%3FNEWSID%3D2969


NICE!!

[charlesrshell]

If I had to pick one I'd say D11 since it's by SeaLaunch so it's 'supposed' to get to geostationary orbit quicker, unless SES wasn't to blow their fuel budget to get it there quick.

What happen to the previous E satellite launches? Did they blow up or something else? How many failure/delays has there been.

[JohnH]

There are a few things they can test with AMC-14 at 56.5. Such as interference from 5 degrees away. Also, the new steerable receive antenna.

[charlesrshell]

There are a few things they can test with AMC-14 at 56.5. Such as interference from 5 degrees away. Also, the new steerable receive antenna.

JohnH, where can I research info about AMC-14? Things like the steerable receive and other things about the satellite. Sounds pretty interesting.

[rocatman]

JohnH, where can I research info about AMC-14? Things like the steerable receive and other things about the satellite. Sounds pretty interesting.

I would highly doubt you can find much information about some of the newer technology on AMC-14 because it is extremely likely that it is proprietary. Some information can be obtained from some of the FCC filings that are referenced in this thread but some you want find anything about the newer technology.

[tedb3rd]

I scanned through here but didn't see (sorry if I overlooked) but... Does anybody know if the launch will be covered on TV (on Dish Info channels or something?) like they have done in the past?

[HobbyTalk]

Channel 101 starting at 6:30 ET

[fredp]

I hope this gets launched before the rain coming in late tonight there when I just looked. If they scrub, looks like Tuesday or Wedenesday shows beter weather. GOT MY FINGERS AND TOES CROSSED!!:eek2:

http://www.192directory.co.uk/weather_xml.php?id=KZXX0055&length=10

[P Smith]

I hope this gets launched before the rain coming in late tonight there when I just looked. If they scrub, looks like Tuesday or Wedenesday shows beter weather. GOT MY FINGERS AND TOES CROSSED!!:eek2:

http://www.192directory.co.uk/weather_xml.php?id=KZXX0055&length=10
Most important component of weather is wind, what is none this time over there.

[DustoMan]

This is the site for the people now broadcasting on channel 101 covering the launch:
http://www.ilslaunch.com/

[Rob Glasser]

Initial launch looking good, Stage I, II, and III separations successful. Everything going as planned so far.

[syphix]

**message edited**

[James Long]

Off Topic "AMC-14 vs DirecTV-11" posts moved to a more appropriate forum ...
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=122781

[P Smith]

One round on LEO taking 90 min, now count those 3 hours without acknowledge of second burn ... See my point ?

Hope they will find new windows to burn it right. If an engine still working.

How long the sat could stay on LEO before it will dive down if it cannot be fixed ?

[P Smith]

RIP AMC-14.

[syphix]

Does this mean it's lost??
http://www.ilslaunch.com/news-031408/

[Suomi]

Unfortunately yes.

I don't take the 'was' to mean it is gone. My car 'was' built by Mazda, and it drives great.

That being said, I'm not saying it wasn't lost.

[P Smith]

Well, if you could drive Atlantis up there and pickup the sat from LEO before it fall off ...

[HobbyTalk]

D* is using Sea Launch for thier next sat. Sea Launch is 40% Russin owned. 2 launches ago a Sea Launch sat blew up.

[P Smith]

The sat is SAS Americom, not Dish, will see if SeaLaunch have better ratio of good/bad starts in three days.

[SParker]

So D11 launches in 3 days?

[P Smith]

So D11 launches in 3 days?
It must http://dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=92610

[skyviewmark1]

Well, guys.. I am not really sure that NASA could do any better.. Their luck don't run good either.. These things happen.. However it is the 21st Century. It shouldn't happen at all

[P Smith]

Still a machinery ... too many parts, too many problems ...

[longrider]

Launching a satellite to orbit is still a very high risk operation. Would you drive your car if 1 out of every 100 trips it broke down? I dont know the number for launch failures but I'm sure its up in that area. Unfortunately the Proton has a higher failure rate than most other launch vehicles. DirecTV 10 was launched by ILS using a Proton and I have to admit I was rather nervous knowing their history.

[SParker]

RIP AMC-14 :(

[HobbyTalk]

Out of 25 launches, Sea Launch has had 3 failures.

2 launches ago
http://www.spaceflightnow.com/sealaunch/nss8/images/explosion.jpg

[P Smith]

Waiting for new statements...

[HobbyTalk]

That was a Dutch sat. - NSS-8. It caused the delay in launching E*s next sat, now due to go up later this year.

[Tom Robertson]

Given the nature of the news regarding AMC-14, this thread has been closed. Please direct your thoughts to the new thread: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=122797

Sorry for the bad news,
Tom