View Full Version : New Wish List Suggestion: Mark end of commercial block
One of the SonicBlue (REPLAY) patents that I assume DirecTV now owns deals with the concept of creating an "event index" that can be used as an aid to navigate through a recording. E.g., the black frame at the end of a block of commercials, before the show resumes, might be considered such an "event". Details of the patent may be found here (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=4&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&p=1&p=1&S1=sonicblue&OS=sonicblue&RS=sonicblue).
I was thinking that if DirecTV gave us a way of jumping directly to the end of a commercial block, there would be hell to pay with the networks and advertisers.
But what if DirecTV "bookmarked" the end of commercial blocks in a recording in such a way that a FF automatically shifted into PLAY when it reached the right spot in the playback index? Seems to me that would be essentially no different than the way we FF or SLIP through commercial blocks now, so the advertisers couldn't complain.
Assuming the spot could be reliably marked, perhaps a new Wish List request could read something like:
"FF should automatically switch to PLAY at the end of each commercial block."
Would love to know what you all think of this idea. I'll reserve room for a couple of alternative ideas, so please PM me or a MOD if you would like them added. TIA. /steve
Stuart Sweet
12-26-07, 02:39 PM
Steve, I suspect this would be fantastically popular if implemented, I'd be for it. Like you, though, I have a concern that it wouldn't be implemented for legal reasons, real or imagined.
Earl Bonovich
12-26-07, 02:40 PM
IIRC...
Wasn't this the area that caused Replay TV a lot of their problems in the first place?
IIRC...
Wasn't this the area that caused Replay TV a lot of their problems in the first place?No. what got them in trouble with the studios was automatically SKIP'ing over commercial blocks, IIRC. That's why I was careful to tie this request to FF. Seems that it's no different than what we do now. Just my .02, though.
Maybe some veteran REPLAY users can confirm how it used to work before the lawsuits started. :) /steve
More on this from: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2002/07/15/BU219331.DTL&type=business
"But while TiVo has a commercial jumping feature, which lets you hit a button on the remote to fast-forward through a spot in the blink of an eye, ReplayTV lets you check a menu box telling it to automatically skip commercials on a recorded program."
I believe this is what got REPLAY into hot water with the networks, as opposed to FF'ing through commercial blocks.
/steve
frederic1943
12-26-07, 02:56 PM
One of the sections of the FCC rule 47 CFR 73.9002(b) that was struck down by the courts in 2005 was placing a broadcast flag in the signal to disable the ability to skip over commercials. It is possible that a higher court may overturn this ruling, or the United States Congress may grant such authority to the FCC. Some of the major U.S. television networks have stated in the past that they will stop broadcasting high-definition content if the rule does not go into effect.
Earl Bonovich
12-26-07, 02:58 PM
Some of the major U.S. television networks have stated in the past that they will stop broadcasting high-definition content if the rule does not go into effect.
Well they have already let the genie out of the bottle.
Very difficult to get it back in at this point.
One of the sections of the FCC rule 47 CFR 73.9002(b) that was struck down by the courts in 2005 was placing a broadcast flag in the signal to disable the ability to skip over commercials. It is possible that a higher court may overturn this ruling, or the United States Congress may grant such authority to the FCC. Some of the major U.S. television networks have stated in the past that they will stop broadcasting high-definition content if the rule does not go into effect.That being said, I just want to emphasize to folks that I am not suggesting commercials be automatically SKIPPED over. I'm just suggesting a way DirecTV might automatically stop the FF that we already do now. :) /steve
Redlinetire
12-26-07, 03:06 PM
MythTV has some scripts that you can add that will do this for you. You basically get a finished program with all the commercial blocks edited out. Not that I would expect the major players like DirecTV or Tivo to have this.
But it is an option. :)
TigerDriver
12-26-07, 04:12 PM
That being said, I just want to emphasize to folks that I am not suggesting commercials be automatically SKIPPED over. I'm just suggesting a way DirecTV might automatically stop the FF that we already do now. :) /steve
From the content-provider's and advertizer's points of view, I'm afraid that's a distinction without much of a difference. Advertizers already complain that DVRs make it impossible to accurately measure the number of eyeballs watching their commercials. The content-providers know that manual commercial-skipping on DVRs is rampant.
The advertizers pay for the content that the providers give away for free. So the quid pro quo for watching my favorite TV shows is that I suffer commercials. When I skip commercials, this model breaks down. In the degenerate case nobody watches commercials, no money changes hands, no content gets created, and: everybody goes out of business.
What's needed is a change in the business model. The content-providers cut a deal with the content-transporters (e.g., DirecTV) allow them to sell subscriptions for commercial-free content. That is, in return for my paying $X/month fee, DirecTV provides me the means to record programs without commercials. DirecTV passes a (probably large) fraction of this fee back to the content-providers, who in turn charge proportionally less to advertizers to compensate them for the quantifiable reduction in eyeballs.
I believe such a model is inevitable.
I predict there will be by both sides a continued period of rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic, but sooner or later the paradigm must change. Otherwise, the prime law of Wall Street will take effect: "Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered."
So, someday when you're changing your programming package, you'll hear "Do you want commercials with that?"
Sign me up.
One of the SonicBlue (REPLAY) patents that I assume DirecTV now owns deals with the concept of creating an "event index" that can be used as an aid to navigate through a recording. E.g., the black frame at the end of a block of commercials, before the show resumes, might be considered such an "event". Details of the patent may be found here (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=4&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&p=1&p=1&S1=sonicblue&OS=sonicblue&RS=sonicblue).
I was thinking that if DirecTV gave us a way of jumping directly to the end of a commercial block, there would be hell to pay with the networks and advertisers.
But what if DirecTV "bookmarked" the end of commercial blocks in a recording in such a way that a FF automatically shifted into PLAY when it reached the right spot in the playback index? Seems to me that would be essentially no different than the way we FF or SLIP through commercial blocks now, so the advertisers couldn't complain.
Assuming the spot could be reliably marked, perhaps a new Wish List request could read something like:
"FF should automatically switch to PLAY at the end of each commercial block."
Would love to know what you all think of this idea. I'll reserve room for a couple of alternative ideas, so please PM me or a MOD if you would like them added. TIA. /steve
I like the idea. IMHO, it's very similatr to any viewer manually scanning through the program and adding bookmarks at the end of commercial blocks, so the next viewer in the household can just come along and use the bookmarks.
If implemented, DIRECTV would not be skipping commercials. If anything, the currently-testing implementation of 30-second-SKIP is what skips commercials - this idea would not. Instead, this just tells the player when to resume PLAY if the user is fast-forwarding or SLIPPING through the content.
From the content-provider's and advertizer's points of view, I'm afraid that's a distinction without much of a difference.
Well, if the whole business model needs to be changed, that's a whole different discussion. Not something for the current Wish List. :)
Until that happens, tho, whether I stop the FF manually or it stops automatically for me, I'm not going to see any more or less of the commercials as they whiz by. I believe this suggestion does nothing to change the DVR model that has been in place for the past 8-9 years.
The only conceivable difference I can envision is that maybe folks will start using FFX4 when they previously capped it at FFX3 (or SLIP, which is approximately FFX3). If that's an issue, then "auto-stopping" FF's could be limited to FFX3 or slower. Just my .02. /steve
[QUOTE=
So, someday when you're changing your programming package, you'll hear "Do you want commercials with that?"
Sign me up.[/QUOTE]
Wasn't that the model before cable TV? Now I pay to receive cable/satellite/FIOS etc and I still have to watch commercials. So the networks/providers have been double dipping from the original model for quite some time, maybe the pendulum is just swinging back to equitable.
Wow, I see the poll results are a little lopsided.
I have to agree that advertisers would not be happy with this, which in turn, would make the "free" broadcast channels, and their parent networks unhappy.
But, these make up only a small portion of the channels I watch and record. Though a small portion, the content and production values are generally better (not altogether) than those of pay television.
Now, the pay television guys are getting paid twice for that advertising time (double-dipping as mentioned before).
I would be perfectly happy to have a packet in the free television market that would preclude me from skipping commercials (I could still skip through the program content), when watching those channels off air on a simple DVR.
With D*, I would also be okay with my OTA programming handled without commercial skipping. I only get the locals through the Satellite as a convenience, as I also use OTA through the receiver and directly to my TV (so I have a third option when I am recording two shows at once, and for bad weather).
But, just like HBO, and the like, I already pay a premium price to be able to skip commercials on the pay channels, so I wouldn't want to pay any more just to skip commercials there, IMHO.
wagman
Wow, I see the poll results are a little lopsided.
I have to agree that advertisers would not be happy with this, which in turn, would make the "free" broadcast channels, and their parent networks unhappy.But this is no different than the current process of FFW'ing through programs/commercials now, and in my mind, the introduction of true SKIPPING (currently in test release software) is more likely to irk the advertisers than Steve's proposal. With Steve's proposal, you'd still see the commercials - with the SKIP introduced in the test software, you jump right over them. Which will the advertisers be more upset about?
If DIRECTV has no qualms about introducing SKIP, why should they have qualms about delivering a method to STOP forwarding at pre-determined locations? They apparently feel satisfied they can deliver SKIP without backlash (or at the least they are prepared to deal with any advertiser backlash), so in my mind, it should be even easier to justify Steve's proposal.
armophob
12-26-07, 07:41 PM
Wow, way to jump up on the table and give the elephant in the room a great big hug and squeeze. I mean how long have we all been doing a tap dance around this?
O.K. I am game, if you think they have been taking their testosterone shots and have increased brass quantity in the nether regions. It would take stones the size ones on Easter Island to take on the networks with such an offering, nevermind their own advertisements and affiliated advertisers.
But this is no different than the current process of FFW'ing through programs/commercials now...Ya, until the whole advertising model changes, as Tigerdriver suggested in his post above, this feature would just be a nice user convenience that wouldn't alter the currently existing interaction between the viewer and commercials that exists today. In a way, this is just another "aid" to ending the FF properly, along the same lines as AUTOCORRECT is helpful.
My only concern is how accurately the end of a commercial block can be located. There may be a lot of "false" positives, if you know what I mean. /steve
armophob
12-26-07, 07:56 PM
My only concern is how accurately the end of a commercial block can be located. There may be a lot of "false" positives, if you know what I mean. /steve
Given the our track record here, I am not worried about the fine tuning as much as the idea that they would go for it.
Pushing FF and then pushing PLAY is no big deal to me to skip over the commercials.
spartanstew
12-26-07, 08:05 PM
Wow, I'm the only negative vote so far.
Pushing FF and then pushing PLAY is no big deal to me to skip over the commercials.
I agree with this. Seems like it's too risky (will bring too much attention to the matter again) in order to save 1 button press. I normally have my thumb resting on "play" anyway, so it's not that difficult for me.
In general, I think we tend to look for too many shortcuts when they're not necessary. Obviously there's exceptions (CC taking 15 steps, for example), but for the most part, if something can be done well in 4 or 5 steps, we should probably just leave it be.
Thaedron
12-26-07, 08:17 PM
From the content-provider's and advertizer's points of view, I'm afraid that's a distinction without much of a difference.
I tend to agree. Yes it's a great idea for the viewer, however, anything that puts commercial skipping on auto-pilot is going to ruffle the feathers of the networks. And while this isn't fundamentally any "different" than how many of us do FF through commercial blocks, it is essentially putting the commercial skipping on auto-pilot...
Perhaps it can be implemented the same way as 30SKIP. "Off" by default, but available through a "back door" to those who want it. /steve
richlife
12-27-07, 08:03 AM
I enthusiastically support your suggestion as described.
TigerDriver
12-27-07, 08:04 AM
Wasn't that the model before cable TV? Now I pay to receive cable/satellite/FIOS etc and I still have to watch commercials. So the networks/providers have been double dipping from the original model for quite some time, maybe the pendulum is just swinging back to equitable.
If you don't believe that the convenience of single-carrier aggregation of wold-wide content is a good value, then the solution to your dissatisfaction is a phone call away.
However, please don't conflate that topic with the meta-issue of the obsolete revenue model that exists between advertizers and content-providers.
Replaytv paid for the Commercial Advance license from Arthur D. Little. I remember that was in the manual. There is probably better commercial sensing technology out there now.
-mk
bhelton71
12-27-07, 08:28 AM
There is an additional feature I like in BeyondTV - they highlight the commercials in the progress bar:
Here is a screenshot of what I am talking about:
http://www.snapstream.com/images/products/beyondtv/features/smartskip.jpg
Of course they also allow you to skip the commercials also (its called 'SmartSkip') - not sure exactly how it works.
I wouldn't think the highlighting would cause an uproar with the advertising folks.
HDnewbie
12-27-07, 08:36 AM
I don't see what the big deal is with automating the "play" mode at the end of the commercial segment. We can already see when to hit play if we are FF'ing on our own. Just about every network show I watch has a big flag indicating the start of the segment (TV-G, TV-PG, etc). Technology exists to block content, so I am not seeing any legal reasons why there couldn't be an option to automatically drop out of FF into "play" mode when you see this flag.
The CommercialAdvance patent was from Thomson Consumer Electronics. It's not clear that DirecTV now has the rights to use it - patent rights are not generally automatically transferable like that.
Redlinetire
12-27-07, 08:49 AM
If you don't believe that the convenience of single-carrier aggregation of wold-wide content is a good value, then the solution to your dissatisfaction is a phone call away.
However, please don't conflate that topic with the meta-issue of the obsolete revenue model that exists between advertizers and content-providers.
I love it when people use double-speak like 'meta-issue' - that's too funny! :lol:
Are you a corporate attorney by chance? ;)
And he's not 'conflating' anything. That's exactly the model of cable back in the 70s. (Perhaps you're a bit too young to remember?) Also OTA services such as 'ON TV' which was also subscription based.
Back then the selling point was 'look at all this great content you get and no commercials!" Much like satellite radio sells itself today. My neighbors thought I was nuts to pay for TV when you could get it from an antenna for free. But I liked the variety and the lack of commercials.
So your model has been tried before, it will be interesting to see if things swing back similar to that way it used to be.
bhelton71
12-27-07, 08:52 AM
I don't see what the big deal is with automating the "play" mode at the end of the commercial segment. We can already see when to hit play if we are FF'ing on our own. Just about every network show I watch has a big flag indicating the start of the segment (TV-G, TV-PG, etc). Technology exists to block content, so I am not seeing any legal reasons why there couldn't be an option to automatically drop out of FF into "play" mode when you see this flag.
In future updates it may be possible to skip thru a program in incremental time periods. When doing so though - you have the problem of overshooting the show when it returns from break. By inserting a 'commericial end' marker of some sort - the HR20 would know to stop the skip and begin playback at that particular frame + 1.
The CommercialAdvance patent was from Thomson Consumer Electronics. It's not clear that DirecTV now has the rights to use it - patent rights are not generally automatically transferable like that.Actually an "event sensing" patent (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=4&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&p=1&p=1&S1=sonicblue&OS=sonicblue&RS=sonicblue) was granted to SonicBlue. I could be wrong, but I assume it's what they used to enable the original controversial Replay "commercial skip" feature, and that DirecTV now owns it, along with the other 50+ REPLAY/SonicBlue patents. /steve
As an aside, here's (http://patimg1.uspto.gov/.piw?Docid=02630525&homeurl=http%3A%2F%2Fpatft.uspto.gov%2Fnetacgi%2Fn ph-Parser%3FSect2%3DPTO1%2526Sect2%3DHITOFF%2526p%3D1 %2526u%3D%25252Fnetahtml%25252FPTO%25252Fsearch-bool.html%2526r%3D1%2526f%3DG%2526l%3D50%2526d%3DP ALL%2526S1%3D2630525.PN.%2526OS%3DPN%2F2630525%252 6RS%3DPN%2F2630525&PageNum=&Rtype=&SectionNum=&idkey=NONE&Input=View+first+page) a patent from 1953 for detecting "speech text commercials" within a music radio broadcast! :lol: /steve
(PS: You need Quicktime to view it.)
Redlinetire
12-27-07, 09:41 AM
As an aside, here's a patent from 1953 for detecting "speech text commercials" within a music radio broadcast! :lol: /steve
(PS: You need Quicktime to view it.)
Proving that there is very little 'new' under the sun. :D
bhelton71
12-27-07, 09:41 AM
Actually an "event sensing" patent (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=4&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&p=1&p=1&S1=sonicblue&OS=sonicblue&RS=sonicblue) was granted to SonicBlue. I could be wrong, but I assume it's what they used to enable the original controversial Replay "commercial skip" feature, and that DirecTV now owns it, along with the other 50+ REPLAY/SonicBlue patents. /steve
Thats probably part of it - it appears to be a patenting nightmare. I would never survive as a lawyer. This is from the User Manual for the Replay 5000
This product incorporates
copyright protection technology that is protected by U.S. patents and other intellectual property rights including, among others, Macrovision U.S. patents nos.
4,631,603; 4,577,216; 4,819,098; 4,907,093 and commercial advance technology that is protected by U.S. patents and other intellectual property, including AD
Little Commercial Advance patents nos. 5,333,091; 5,692,093 and 5,696,866. Use of this copyright protection technology must be authorized by Macrovision,
and is intended for home uses only unless otherwise authorized by Macrovision. Reverse engineering or disassembly is prohibited.
COMMERCIAL►►ADVANCE® is a registered trademark of SRT, Inc. A Jerry Iggulden invention licensed in association with Arthur D. Little Enterprises, Inc.
Link: http://www.rioaudio.com/support/replaytv/downloads/ReplayTV_5000_UG.pdf
Thats probably part of it - it appears to be a patenting nightmare. I would never survive as a lawyer.Neither would I! :lol:
I guess the good news is that for this "smart bookmark" request to be implemented, the only patent required might be the "black field detection" patent that SonicBlue apparently owns. /steve
spaulding
12-27-07, 09:58 AM
I am also in favor of this idea. I had 5 ReplayTVs, 3 of them given to me by Replay or sonicBlue. As I recall, it worked pretty well once it was fully implemented. It did occasionally have "false positives" as another replier suggested, but that only means you lose some skipping, not any programming content. I would also not mind the "slip" or "FF" approach if it would mean that the programming re-starts accurately.
Sirshagg
12-27-07, 11:14 AM
What's to stop advertisers from putting whatever trigger is used to stop the FFWD at the beginning of (or all throughout) their ad?
What's to stop advertisers from putting whatever trigger is used to stop the FFWD at the beginning of (or all throughout) their ad?If it's done by sensing a second of "black screen", then they could do that at the beginning of an ad (if they were willing to pay for the "dead air" time), but then you could just hit FF again.
I'm pretty sure there will be some "false positives" with this method. According to p.59 of the REPLAY guide (http://www.rioaudio.com/support/replaytv/downloads/ReplayTV_5000_UG.pdf), their controversial "commercial skip" feature only had about a 70-90% success rate.
That being said, the implementation proposed in Post #1 could have a higher success rate, because it's less ambitious in its scope. /steve
bhelton71
12-27-07, 11:57 AM
If it's done by sensing a second of "black screen", then they could do that at the beginning of an ad (if they were willing to pay for the "dead air" time), but then you could just hit FF again.
I'm pretty sure there will be some "false positives" with this method. According to p.59 of the REPLAY guide (http://www.rioaudio.com/support/replaytv/downloads/ReplayTV_5000_UG.pdf), their controversial "commercial skip" feature only had about a 70-90% success rate.
That being said, the implementation proposed in Post #1 could have a higher success rate, because it's less ambitious in its scope. /steve
You guys got me thinking - back in the stone age I had an Optimus VCR that had a commercial skipping feature and I remember it didn't always work. I believe at that point Panasonic was assembling the Optimus products.
So I found the model on the Radio Shack site - Model 61 and it was called Commercial Advance also. And here is the kicker:
1996 Tandy Corporation.
All Rights Reserved.
Commercial Advance is a trademark of Arthur D. Little Enterprises,
A Jerry Iggulden invention licensed by Arthur D. Little Enterprises.
Optimus is a registered trademark used by Tandy Corporation
RadioShack is a trademark used by Tandy Corporation.
Remember we're not talking about commercial "skipping" here. We're talking about bookmarking the end of the commercial block. A subtle but important difference, IMO. This request is simply for a better method to terminate the way we currently FF through commercials, similar to the way AUTOCORRECT has been helpful.
"Commercial skip" as previously implemented by REPLAY and others using the Little/Igguden patents apparently attempted to jump seamlessly between the show "fade out" and "fade in" points, as if the commercials didn't exist.
/steve
BkwSoft
12-27-07, 01:08 PM
IIRC...
Wasn't this the area that caused Replay TV a lot of their problems in the first place?
Let's just say that the Commercial Advance didn't win them any brownie points with the studios. What REALLY got them in trouble was the ability to share programs with other people over the internet. That got the studios REALLY hot under the collar.
BkwSoft
12-27-07, 01:17 PM
From the content-provider's and advertizer's points of view, I'm afraid that's a distinction without much of a difference. Advertizers already complain that DVRs make it impossible to accurately measure the number of eyeballs watching their commercials. The content-providers know that manual commercial-skipping on DVRs is rampant.
The advertizers pay for the content that the providers give away for free. So the quid pro quo for watching my favorite TV shows is that I suffer commercials. When I skip commercials, this model breaks down. In the degenerate case nobody watches commercials, no money changes hands, no content gets created, and: everybody goes out of business.
What's needed is a change in the business model. The content-providers cut a deal with the content-transporters (e.g., DirecTV) allow them to sell subscriptions for commercial-free content. That is, in return for my paying $X/month fee, DirecTV provides me the means to record programs without commercials. DirecTV passes a (probably large) fraction of this fee back to the content-providers, who in turn charge proportionally less to advertizers to compensate them for the quantifiable reduction in eyeballs.
I believe such a model is inevitable.
I predict there will be by both sides a continued period of rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic, but sooner or later the paradigm must change. Otherwise, the prime law of Wall Street will take effect: "Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered."
So, someday when you're changing your programming package, you'll hear "Do you want commercials with that?"
Sign me up.
The business model is already changing, or should I say going back to the future. Why do you think we are seeing so many product placements in our programs? The advertisers and studio have seen the writing on the wall. It isn't a coincidence that we see a can of Pepsi/Coke or a bucket on KFC in a TV program.
It wasn’t that long ago that the studios would go out of their way not to make stage props unidentifiable to any particular brand. Now they are collecting on it because you can’t skip and advertisement when it’s part of the program you are trying to watch. :nono2:
bhelton71
12-27-07, 01:33 PM
Remember we're not talking about commercial "skipping" here. We're talking about bookmarking the end of the commercial block. A subtle but important difference, IMO. This request is simply for a better method to terminate the way we currently FF through commercials, similar to the way AUTOCORRECT has been helpful.
"Commercial skip" as previously implemented by REPLAY and others using the Little/Igguden patents apparently attempted to jump seamlessly between the show "fade out" and "fade in" points, as if the commercials didn't exist.
/steve
No - I understand the request as putting in a bookmark of sorts at the end of a commercial block - preventing overshooting the shows returning from the commercial block when manually skipping the commercials. The viewer still initiates the ffwd just as it is now. And it goes without saying it is time shifted already. One small question - does the program have to be recorded to add this kind of data to it - or can the operation be done on buffered video ?
The other worked exactly as described - when the show was completely recorded the vcr would rewind it and when it detected transitions it would mark it on the tape. Then on playback when the commercials started - the vcr would fast forward and would stop at the end of the commercials. And the dvr implementations (BeyondTV and several others do this currently) don't have to FFWD - they basically analyse the frames in memory and just drop the commercials. So you just see a tiny pause in the show - kindof looks like the NFL replay games.
BkwSoft
12-27-07, 01:36 PM
As ReplayTV implemented it. It would also work when you were catching up to a live program. The only catch was it wouldn't operate within the last five minutes of whatever was recorded/buffered.
There is an additional feature I like in BeyondTV - they highlight the commercials in the progress bar:
Here is a screenshot of what I am talking about:
http://www.snapstream.com/images/products/beyondtv/features/smartskip.jpg
That is very cool! I would love to see this on the DVR Plus receivers ...
One small question - does the program have to be recorded to add this kind of data to it - or can the operation be done on buffered video ?Excellent question. I guess this would depend on whether the "black frame" sensing could take place in real-time as data is written to disk, or if needs to be done as part of a post-processing routine applied to the recorded program sitting on the disk. You got me! :) /steve
sNEIRBO
12-27-07, 05:29 PM
I had an VCR back in the mid-90's that did something like that - I think it was an RCA. If the "commercial skip" feature was turned on, it would automatically jump to fast forward during the commercials, then back to play at the end of the commercials. It was a feature you turned on in the menu and you never had to touch a button except to push play at the start of the recording, and stop at the end. I remember having problems with it during recorded sporting events. But I also remember it working wonderfully well during normal network shows.
DogLover
12-28-07, 07:30 AM
I think this is a great idea. I think it's a good idea to have it not work with FF4, because sometimes you want to FF through a major part of a recording, not just skip the commercials. I wouold normally do this on FF4, and I wouldn't want to have to re-start the forward for each commercial break.
I think this is a great idea. I think it's a good idea to have it not work with FF4, because sometimes you want to FF through a major part of a recording, not just skip the commercials. I wouold normally do this on FF4, and I wouldn't want to have to re-start the forward for each commercial break.Ya. Because "skip to tick" is so unreliable, there are times we might want to FF to a certain section of the recording quickly. Also, disabling it at FFX4 might make it less of "red flag" for advertisers. I'm thinking the request might be modified to read:
"Up to FFX3, automatically switch to PLAY at the end of each commercial block."
/steve
How about they use this technology to make sure they start a recording when a show STARTS and not end the recording until after a show ends? That'd be something new for the HR2X series.
How about they use this technology to make sure they start a recording when a show STARTS and not end the recording until after a show ends? That'd be something new for the HR2X series.Putting aside the HR20 housekeeping issues that cause recordings to start late, which should be somehow accounted for, IMHO, I think if they wanted to use the black frame transition to know the beginning and end points of a show, they'd be too much at the mercy of the games the networks play with the schedule. E.g., depending on what the network does, the HR20 could miss the transition point if a show started earlier than the GUIDE said it should, or possibly cause a recording conflict if a show ran past its GUIDE time. Just my .02. /steve
Putting aside the HR20 housekeeping issues that cause recordings to start late, which should be somehow accounted for, IMHO, I think if they wanted to use the black frame transition to know the beginning and end points of a show, they'd be too much at the mercy of the games the networks play with the schedule. E.g., depending on what the network does, the HR20 could miss the transition point if a show started earlier than the GUIDE said it should, or possibly cause a recording conflict if a show ran past its GUIDE time. Just my .02. /steve
Steve, but they could at least stop cutting off the end of a show early with the technology by holding the record on. Maybe they only do it for a few minutes max if possible. I'm not suggesting catching the beginning or end of a show that has been pushed by football...just the basic, everyday programming vagaries. It actually could be used as a way to combat the networks pushing a show long or starting one late. I'm also figuring it would be a user selected feature...maybe even on the menu for setting up a Series Link.
Steve, but they could at least stop cutting off the end of a show early with the technology by holding the record on. Maybe they only do it for a few minutes max if possible. I'm not suggesting catching the beginning or end of a show that has been pushed by football...just the basic, everyday programming vagaries. It actually could be used as a way to combat the networks pushing a show long or starting one late. I'm also figuring it would be a user selected feature...maybe even on the menu for setting up a Series Link.Agree as long as it doesn't run into the next recording slot, where there might be 2 new shows scheduled to record. That's my worry. I don't want something bumped I don't know about.
As a rule, I find my recordings start late more often than they end early (though much better, lately), but it could just be due to the networks I record vs. the ones that are problematic for you. /steve
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