"Sidecar" Dish Replacement

[HD AV]

Referred my neighbor to D* and when the installer came out to install her system, I offered him $50 (in his pocket) to replace my older AT9 "sidecar" dish with a Slimline when he was finished with her installation. He did and left me the AT9 so I put away for a spare. Signal went up 2 points on the 101 where I now have 6 transponders reading 100, but dropped on the 103b by 2 points where I now only have 2, 98s where I used to have 2 100s. The 110 and 119 also dropped 2 points. Is this common with the slimline dish? He aligned with a Birddog meter and I believe he did a very good job, but I am concerned about rain fade. That is main reason that I wanted to replace the "sidecar". Every time we had a decent (not heavy or thunderstorms) rain, I would lose all my 103 channels and sometimes the 101s also. This could be for hours depending on cloud cover. I'm in NW Fl so I expect fade with thunderstorms, but not just a rainy day. Thunderstorm fade usually only last from a couple of minutes to about 10 depending on the size and speed/movement of the storm between me and the sat. The other reason was slightly less wind load and a more aesthetically pleasing look as my dish is in plain view. Now I have a spare, aligned and ready to connect as all he did was disconnect and remove from the pole. Alignment settings were not touched. I think I got a good deal, but can anyone comment on the signal strength comparison and rain fade. Any and all comments are appreciated. :confused: :)

[Earl Bonovich]

Honestly...

There was no reason to replace the AT9 (Sidecar)... it is just as good as the slimline... and offers only the slightest of marginal improvements (actuall just less risk, because of the side-car connector).

It will have next to no reduction in rain fade issues, as it is actually a smaller dish. RainFade can really only be improved by better aiming and pointing.

Your 2 point drop, you could probably check it right now, and be higher... +/-3 points is normal.

[HD AV]

Thanks Earl,
I've checked strengths several times in the last 2 days and they have not varied more than 1 point and I still get the 100s on the 101. I have just experienced much more fade with the 5 lnb vs my old 3 lnb and do not know why. I guess it's just something I'll have to live with. I still don't understand why since I experienced almost no fade at all with the old oval 2 lnb and watched through 2 hurricanes with only very minor interruptions. Since going HD (replacing my sony receiver and 2 lnb) a cloudy day with only moderate rain will take out my signal, sometime for hours. I have a completely clear view and I am confident the dish(s) have been aligned almost perfectly as I had the 3 lnb and the AT9 realigned to try and cure the problem. No luck even with slightly better alignment. I know the 103 will be more susceptible due to the higher frequency, shorter wavelength, but why the 101 with such high signal strengths? I'm going to RainX the dish this weekend if it warms up. We're in the low 40s today and it's going to be 15 to 18 tonight. And they call this Florida! PS. Thanks for all of your time and effort on our behalf, you have been a real asset for us all.

[Earl Bonovich]

My experence with my AT9, which is now 2 years old installed (next week actually).

I have a ton less rain fade then I didn with my 3LNB... and I have to have a pretty good storm going outside to lose the signal....

[hdtvfan0001]

Thanks Earl,
I've checked strengths several times in the last 2 days and they have not varied more than 1 point and I still get the 100s on the 101. I have just experienced much more fade with the 5 lnb vs my old 3 lnb and do not know why.
I've had my SideCar 5LNB since day one, and about the time the HD dishes first came out. I get almost no rain fade (except during a torrential thunderstorm downpour when I shouldn't be watching TV anyway).

Your fluctuations could be a result of nearby trees reflecting signal (and wavering in the wind), or else not having it lined up just right, or a host of other things. 1 - 2 point singal level changes are not that big a deal, nor uncommon from weather conditions alone.

I had mine retuned just prior to the new 103b Sat launch (D10), and signals are very solid since.

One added interesting point to your original comments...the installer who did the dish alignment adjustments here was very knowledable, and even shared that they have had far more "challenges" getting the Slimline dishes properly tuned than the Sidecar version.

[Rob77]

Honestly...

There was no reason to replace the AT9 (Sidecar)... it is just as good as the slimline... and offers only the slightest of marginal improvements (actuall just less risk, because of the side-car connector).

It will have next to no reduction in rain fade issues, as it is actually a smaller dish. RainFade can really only be improved by better aiming and pointing.

Your 2 point drop, you could probably check it right now, and be higher... +/-3 points is normal.

I really, really, do not like to disagree with the King of DBS Talk :)
but Honestly.....

I know many people (including myself) get vastly improved service with the slimline dish over the AT-9..... and this can be realignment, and better design with the lnb's, etc. Maybe on the "test bench" they both preform the same, but in the field, it seems most people have better service with the slimline.

[Earl Bonovich]

I really, really, do not like to disagree with the King of DBS Talk :)
but Honestly.....

I know many people (including myself) get vastly improved service with the slimline dish over the AT-9..... and this can be realignment, and better design with the lnb's, etc. Maybe on the "test bench" they both preform the same, but in the field, it seems most people have better service with the slimline.

It probably has a lot to do with the ability of the slimline to be tweeked a whole lot easier, then the AT9...

So it is easier to dial-it-up... exactly just right.

So it is probably more the allignment then anything specific the function of the dish.

At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter which one performs better... they both do the job, if installed correctly.

[hdtvfan0001]

At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter which one performs better... they both do the job, if installed correctly.
That is exactly the same point my installer/realignment guru made onsite here....although he seemed to have a preference for tuning the SideCar version for some strange reason.

[techie301]

Question is, if I have the option of getting a new AT-9 for $50, should I grab it or should I wait to get an AU9-S for $150 + shipping? I have a very custom mount on my house and I can tweak that mount to take the 2" mount for either. I have someone that has a new AT-9 they can't seem to get rid of and he offered it to me for ~$50.

What do you all think?

Thanks!

P.S. I am new to dbstalk... nice place to be!

[K4SMX]

I would be reluctant to buy it if it has a Calamp LNB. There have been more signal strength problems with those receiving D10 (103(b)) than any other LNB. The label is right on the LNB. They're not all bad by any means. Just a caution.

[HD AV]

I've had my SideCar 5LNB since day one, and about the time the HD dishes first came out. I get almost no rain fade (except during a torrential thunderstorm downpour when I shouldn't be watching TV anyway).

Your fluctuations could be a result of nearby trees reflecting signal (and wavering in the wind), or else not having it lined up just right, or a host of other things. 1 - 2 point singal level changes are not that big a deal, nor uncommon from weather conditions alone.

I had mine retuned just prior to the new 103b Sat launch (D10), and signals are very solid since.

One added interesting point to your original comments...the installer who did the dish alignment adjustments here was very knowledable, and even shared that they have had far more "challenges" getting the Slimline dishes properly tuned than the Sidecar version.

Actually, (and it may have been the installer) the slimline seemed much easier to align. It only took about 1/2 the time the AT9 did. I checked the signals on the installer's Birddog meter when this was put in as I did with the realignment of the old AT9. He knew what he was doing and did a good job. Even tightened the nuts really well (I checked behind him).

The only fluctuations (1 or 2 points) I get are (as you stated) due to atmospheric conditions. I have a clear, unobstructed line of sight without a tree anywhere. My perplexity is over the rain fade I've experienced since switching from SD to HD. It started with the 3 lnb and was ths same with the AT9 in much less than severe weather. Like I said, I have mid to 98/99s on all but one transponder on 103 and 6 100s on 101. 110 and 119s best are mid to high 90s also. At this point, I do not know if I will experience the same fade with the slimline as we have not had a normal cloudy, rainy day since it was put up. I'll just have to wait and see how this does compared to the other 2. I do appreciate the inquiries and advise, though.

[RobertE]

A couple of notes about the AT-9 & AU-9.

The back assemblies are %100 interchangable. So, from a fine tuning standpoint one isn't better than the other. The major difference between the two (can't recall the offical names of them) are that on the original, it had a dither pin for azimuth adjustment and a "screw" or "threaded rod" for a lack of a better name for the elevation adjustment. Also it had the elevation adjustment on the insided. On the current revision, both adjusments are the screw.

In a way, I prefered the older back assembly as I didn't have to see the azimuth adjustment to use it. Just had to feel it.

For performance, I personally feel the slimline has a few advantages.

First, the reflectors & LNBs are interchangable between manufactures.
Second, the LNB on the slimline CAN be removed after fine tuning.

With the AT-9, with the way the sidecare attached, it was possible that you could go slightly out of alignment if the LNB was removed. Major PITA. Another negative is those stupid jumpers. They would either break or fail at some point. You also had to make sure you had the proper zone setting on the sidecar, or again, you could end up with a sub-par alignment. Lastly, LNBs were not interchangeable. So if you go out on a service call and the customer has a Andrews AT-9 and you have Cal-Amp, you got to swap the whole ______ thing. :mad:

[techie301]

I would be reluctant to buy it if it has a Calamp LNB. There have been more signal strength problems with those receiving D10 (103(b)) than any other LNB. The label is right on the LNB. They're not all bad by any means. Just a caution.

Thanks! I assume that a WNB LNB Kit on an AT-9 is fine? That is what the LNB set is on this dish. I actually got the disk, mount/tuning, and mast/mount for $40. So, I assume that this will work better than the Cal-Amp LNB?

Comments... ideas?

Thanks!

[K4SMX]

Thanks! I assume that a WNB LNB Kit on an AT-9 is fine? That is what the LNB set is on this dish. I actually got the disk, mount/tuning, and mast/mount for $40. So, I assume that this will work better than the Cal-Amp LNB?

Comments... ideas?

Thanks!
Does it say "Revision 1" on it?

[techie301]

Does it say "Revision 1" on it?

It says "FW9" on the integrated LNB and "FW2" on the sidecar LNB. I have serial numbers if that will help. No indication of a "revision" number or code.

Thanks for the help!

[K4SMX]

Yeah, now that I think about it, that issue was with the very first Slimline WNC's, not AT-9's. I think what you've got is OK.

[techie301]

Yeah, now that I think about it, that issue was with the very first Slimline WNC's, not AT-9's. I think what you've got is OK.

Great! Thanks for the help. Looks like a good dish in that all the parts in there and the wrappers are still on all the material. The AT-9 metal dish is dang heavy! I am not sure if the Slimline is composite, but this is a heavy dish!

Again, thanks for your help!

[HD AV]

A couple of notes about the AT-9 & AU-9.

The back assemblies are %100 interchangable. So, from a fine tuning standpoint one isn't better than the other. The major difference between the two (can't recall the offical names of them) are that on the original, it had a dither pin for azimuth adjustment and a "screw" or "threaded rod" for a lack of a better name for the elevation adjustment. Also it had the elevation adjustment on the insided. On the current revision, both adjusments are the screw.

In a way, I prefered the older back assembly as I didn't have to see the azimuth adjustment to use it. Just had to feel it.

For performance, I personally feel the slimline has a few advantages.

First, the reflectors & LNBs are interchangable between manufactures.
Second, the LNB on the slimline CAN be removed after fine tuning.

With the AT-9, with the way the sidecare attached, it was possible that you could go slightly out of alignment if the LNB was removed. Major PITA. Another negative is those stupid jumpers. They would either break or fail at some point. You also had to make sure you had the proper zone setting on the sidecar, or again, you could end up with a sub-par alignment. Lastly, LNBs were not interchangeable. So if you go out on a service call and the customer has a Andrews AT-9 and you have Cal-Amp, you got to swap the whole ______ thing. :mad:

I kept the AT9 as a spare if needed. From what you have indicated it may not be as simple to put back as I had envisioned. The installer only removed the lnb(s) from the mounting arm and removed the dish from the pole. The alignment settings were not changed. The pole and dish mount are marked and I was under the (mistaken?) impression that it would be simple to put back if required. What problems may I encounter if I try to do so? I'm seriously considering it as I spent $50 for the Slimline for it to be more aesthetically pleasing for the neighbors, as well as hoping it would help my rain fade problems, but it is not appreciated and I'm ticked enough, that if it does nothing to help lessen my rain fade, to put the AT9 back up just out of spite. Some people just want things their way regardless of what you try and do, Darned if you do, Darned if you don't. It will serve them right if the Slimline does not help my rain fade and I put the larger dish back up!