HOA Strikes Again

[HD AV]

I referred my next door neighbor to D* and she was able to get a good deal on an H20 for her new 46' LCD. When the installer showed up he stated he could not put the dish in the back (like mine is) due to having to ground to the electrical service ground which is on the side of her townhouse near the front. Mine is an end unit, hers is an interior unit. He would have to put the dish on the front side of the townhouse mounted just above the entrance (porch) roof. Actually, this was a good location as she had a clear line of sight (which was dubious from the rear due to 2 trees and a chimney) and was a semi-enclosed area that would protect it from strong winds as well an keeping it from sticking out from the structure. Well, her next door neighbor, a HOA Board member, walked by and noticed where the installer was getting ready to put the dish. He did not like that one bit and told her, and the installer, that the HOA had covenants and would not allow the installation there. I nicely informed him there was no mention of TV antennas or Direct to Home Sat. dishes in our covenants and that under federal law he had no right to interfere with, or impede the installation. I even quoted him the OTARD rule stating he could not( 1) unreasonably delay or prevents use of;
(2) unreasonably increases the cost of; or (3) preclude a person from receiving or an acceptable quality signal from an antenna covered under the rule. I explained that I was only trying to be helpful to the HOA as he was totally overstepping his authority and placing the HOA, (to which I have to pay dues, and assessments to cover unexpected costs) in an untenable position. He didn't listen. He didn't want it there and told the installer that he could not put it there. I informed the installer that she OWNED the property and dwelling he was installing on, the HOA did not own ANY common property, and OTARD specifically permitted this installation. Well, the HOA board member continued to tell the installer it was not to be put there so the installer called his supervisor who told him not to get involved. Pack up and leave. The woman called D*'s installation dept and reported what had occurred and they rescheduled the installation for this week. They told her they would instruct the installation company they would install that dish for her and if she had any more problems with this to call and they would straighten things out. I thought "Good for D*" as this woman was upset by the incident and believed she would have to call an independent company and contract with them to install the dish on a very tall pole in her rear courtyard, and at a substantial price for grounding, fishing cable, etc. D* did explain that, if this must occur, they would credit her the cost of the installation.
Oh, all of her existing cable routing for the townhouse enters right by the electrical service and is also grounded there so the installer would not have to drill holes in her walls and run lines along the baseboards in each room, he could put in the grounding block and tie into her existing system as I did for my H20 upstairs. If put out back on the pole, she would not have a "proper" ground and the cabling to 2 of the rooms would be a nightmare, if even possible without tearing out sheet-rock to run the lines (vaulted ceilings, no attic). Thank the FCC for OTARD.
From my experiences there, if I ever move, I'll never live in a development with another HOA. I think they are overly zealous and drunk on what they believe is their power to dictate and control regardless of whether it is right or legal.

[Earl Bonovich]

HOA's are going to be in for a shake up over the next year.

As they are going to have a LOT of more pressure, because of OTA antennas that will have to be installed.

So it will open the door, and make it easier (in most cases) for dish installations...

[Smuuth]

I would be interested in a follow up report from the OP on what happens next. :)

[HD AV]

I would be interested in a follow up report from the OP on what happens next. :)

Will do. I'm quite curious too. I told the HOA Board member to look it up on the internet since he didn't believe me and save the HOA a lawsuit. Just because HE didn't want it there was no excuse for his actions and he was violating the law. You are right Earl, this is going to get very interesting in 2009.
Should hear more from this Friday.

[HDTVsportsfan]

So just to be clear. She owns the land and the building/townhome? Their are no common areas invlovled w/ this?

[Lee L]

HOA's are going to be in for a shake up over the next year.

As they are going to have a LOT of more pressure, because of OTA antennas that will have to be installed.

So it will open the door, and make it easier (in most cases) for dish installations...


Who will be installing antennas? I thought that no one needed OTA on their DirecTV equipment. ;) ;)

[doubleatheman]

Our HOA is getting on people with dishes making us get permits to install them :( as for my dish, it was improperly installed to their standards. The 5lnb dish is too large to be installed on just the wood beam. It had to be installed with screws through the roof, (which was replaced 7 months ago.) No one on our HOA has said anything yet, but they did in the past make us pull a window a/c unit out out of a window, because it was "a falling hazard and unslghtly"

[Elephanthead]

I spent and extra 50K to buy a house that is not in a subdivision or part of a HOA. I had a geothermal system put in and my back yard is now a nice field of brown mud! A man or woman should be king in their castle!

[HD AV]

So just to be clear. She owns the land and the building/townhome? Their are no common areas invlovled w/ this?

She owns the land and building. There are 4 units in our building, 2 end and 2 interior. Each owner's property line divides the fire walls between each unit. Even though the building has a continuous roof, the portion between the property lines is the property of the owner. Each owner must insure their own property. The HOA contracts for new shingles/roof repairs for all of the units when it is needed, but we, as the homeowners, approve (by vote) the color and type. Same with painting the exterior of the units. This is done to ensure uniformity and preserve the value of the complex, but it is done by consensus. The HOA ownes nothing, nada. No common areas or property. I was told that several people in the complex objected to my AT9 mounted on the rear corner post (6X6)of my privacy fence with 1/3 of the dish below the top of the fence. I basically said sorry, but that's where it had to go and it's my property. I got the usual, "Well, why can't you use the underground cable system like the rest of us?"
What they did not know was I had a 2 lnb SD dish on a tripod for the previous 6 years that was at the front corner of the fence and just barely had sight on 101. I did not protrude above the fence. They really would have had a fit if I had mounted the AT9 in the same location as it would have had to be raised to over 2' above the fence due to it's size in order to see all the sats. It would have been much more convenient to put it there as I could have grounded to my electrical service and hooked into my cable wiring as before and not had to drill through my living room wall and forgo proper grounding where it is located now. I am a corner lot/townhouse and was trying to give consideration to the complex by placing where I did. I even just shelled out $50 to have the "Sidecar" dish replaced with a Slimline which is a little smaller and nicer looking dish. And I still was told they don't like it there. I hated to do it, but I basically said Sorry, but I don't give a **** what you think. There are 3 other dishes installed in here, 2 of them on the outside of corner units on the second story so go B**** at them. Like I said I thank the FCC and OTARD!

[jasonblair]

I live in an interior townhome, and I am an attorney, so I'm pretty familiar with this. Usually, the HOA agreement will forbid satellite installation altogether. That ban is overridden by federal law, which allows people to put up dishes...

HOWEVER, the HOA can place restrictions on WHERE the dish can go. Usually, they are banned from being placed where they are visible from the front of the townhome, and must be placed in the rear, so they are not visible from the street. When reception is not possible from the rear, it gets a little more sticky as to whether the HOA contract or the federal law prevail. Usually, the HOA must grant you a waiver if you can demonstrate that it is impossible or highly unreasonable for you to get reception from the rear of the townhome. That is not to say they won't try to reject you anyways. Even if they do, in order to get you to stop, they'd probably have to take you to court, though... and they'd most likely lose IF reception is TRUELY impossible from the rear.

Usually, reception IS possible from the rear... You just have installers who don't want to do the extra work, so they TELL you it's impossible. My installer told me REPEATEDLY it was impossible to install on the rear. When I was insistent, he finally caved and said he'd do it... For an extra $50... What a punk!

[jasonblair]

I spent and extra 50K to buy a house that is not in a subdivision or part of a HOA. I had a geothermal system put in and my back yard is now a nice field of brown mud! A man or woman should be king in their castle!All well and good if you are one of the fortunate rich people who can afford enough land to not have neighbors. As for the rest of us, HOA contracts that are subject to the land purchase are the best way to avoid the things in life we consider to be "unsightly."

For instance, I am still looking for a neighborhood around here that doesn't allow cars to be parked outside. Even if people have nice vehicles, they always leave their junkiest car outside. (No one wants to see your 86 Ford Ranger STX!) Unfortunately, every neighborhood that has such a restriction has been out of my price rance so far...

[HD AV]

I live in an interior townhome, and I am an attorney, so I'm pretty familiar with this. Usually, the HOA agreement will forbid satellite installation altogether. That ban is overridden by federal law, which allows people to put up dishes...

HOWEVER, the HOA can place restrictions on WHERE the dish can go. Usually, they are banned from being placed where they are visible from the front of the townhome, and must be placed in the rear, so they are not visible from the street. When reception is not possible from the rear, it gets a little more sticky as to whether the HOA contract or the federal law prevail. Usually, the HOA must grant you a waiver if you can demonstrate that it is impossible or highly unreasonable for you to get reception from the rear of the townhome. That is not to say they won't try to reject you anyways. Even if they do, in order to get you to stop, they'd probably have to take you to court, though... and they'd most likely lose IF reception is TRUELY impossible from the rear.

Usually, reception IS possible from the rear... You just have installers who don't want to do the extra work, so they TELL you it's impossible. My installer told me REPEATEDLY it was impossible to install on the rear. When I was insistent, he finally caved and said he'd do it... For an extra $50... What a punk!

The HOA has nothing in the covenents addressing TV antennas or Sat Dishes and has no published rules regarding same, therefore, they have no say. And there are others mounted on the side of their units. This was just a HOA Board member that did not want it there next to his townhouse. Yet, he has burgler bars/gate at his entrance that makes his front entrance look like a jail cell. None of us care for that, but it's his property and he has the right to protect it. The HOA did, however, after he put that in refuse permission to 2 others that wanted to do the same.

[HDTVsportsfan]

Well.... Jason would know better than I and I do recall him moving this past summer and some of the crap he went thru, but it doesn't sound like they have much of an argument. It's not in writing, and it's not a common area, and their are already exisitng dishes mounted.

Keep us posted.

[HD AV]

My neighbor informed me last night she spoke with D*s installation rep. again and was told the installation company outright refuses to install without a letter from the HOA giving permission. I guess they don't care about the FCC or the OTARD rule. She told me she's going to make up a letter herself and present it to the installer. I told her that if that's what she planned it was up to her. Personally, I would not make up anything for my own gain or purposes even though the law is in my favor and I have my rights. Will keep you posted.

[johnzim63]

My neighbor informed me last night she spoke with D*s installation rep. again and was told the installation company outright refuses to install without a letter from the HOA giving permission. I guess they don't care about the FCC or the OTARD rule. She told me she's going to make up a letter herself and present it to the installer. I told her that if that's what she planned it was up to her. Personally, I would not make up anything for my own gain or purposes even though the law is in my favor and I have my rights. Will keep you posted.Why can't your neighbor just find a different installer? Surely there must be more than one in your area. Forging a document of any kind is opening up Pandora's Box.

[HDTVsportsfan]

If she wants the free installation then she has to go thru who DirecTV sends out. If she does go to a different or local installer she might be able to get a credit from DirecTV offsetting the cost. But that is 50/50 at best.

[scooper]

Our HOA is getting on people with dishes making us get permits to install them :( as for my dish, it was improperly installed to their standards. The 5lnb dish is too large to be installed on just the wood beam. It had to be installed with screws through the roof, (which was replaced 7 months ago.) No one on our HOA has said anything yet, but they did in the past make us pull a window a/c unit out out of a window, because it was "a falling hazard and unslghtly"

That's also against the law.

[dpfaunts]

A man or woman should be king in their castle!

+1 :D Happily living in the sticks and king of my castle!

[Lee L]

Just have her write up a letter stating to the install company that she owns the area in question and agrees to take any liability caused by the location of hte install.

[RegGeek]

Just have her write up a letter stating to the install company that she owns the area in question and agrees to take any liability caused by the location of hte install.

That sounds like a much safer option to me. Also she could provide copies of the relevant HOA legal documents to show they have no authority over this issue.

[Elephanthead]

she should probably run for president of the board! If this guy is this big of an ahole, she will probably win, then she can tell him what to do lol.

[Canis Lupus]

HD AV,
Do you have a multiswitch? Your sig says you only have 1 HR-20. How far would the cable runs be from your dish to your neighbors townhome?

Run a cable from your dish to your neighbors place - problem solved :)

[davring]

HD AV,
Do you have a multiswitch? Your sig says you only have 1 HR-20. How far would the cable runs be from your dish to your neighbors townhome?

Run a cable from your dish to your neighbors place - problem solved :)

Excellent idea!

[HD AV]

HD AV,
Do you have a multiswitch? Your sig says you only have 1 HR-20. How far would the cable runs be from your dish to your neighbors townhome?

Run a cable from your dish to your neighbors place - problem solved :)

Could do without the multiswitch, but that's illegal. She wanted me to do that in the beginning and order another receiver for her to use, even offering to split the bill 50-50. I respectfully declined. I like my DTV and I would really miss it in jail.

[carl6]

Could do without the multiswitch, but that's illegal. She wanted me to do that in the beginning and order another receiver for her to use, even offering to split the bill 50-50. I respectfully declined. I like my DTV and I would really miss it in jail.

It is not illegal to share a dish. It violates the terms of service to share an account. If two adjacent houses each have their own account but both connect to the same dish, there is absolutely nothing improper or illegal with that.

Carl

[RobertE]

Could do without the multiswitch, but that's illegal. She wanted me to do that in the beginning and order another receiver for her to use. I respectfully declined. I like my DTV and I would really miss it in jail.

It's perfectly legal to use a single dish to feed multiple family units. Now, you getting a second (or third or xxx) box in your name and hooking it up in her place, that is a no no.

We do it on small apartments all the time. Some of these apartments look like mission control with the dish farms on the roof.

That would be the best case for everyone. Win-win-win.

Installer happy - install goes in.
Her - Happy, now has DirecTv.
HOA - Happy, only one dish.

[Canis Lupus]

No doubt ;)

[Canis Lupus]

The only reason I asked about the multiswitch ( I assumed you didn't have one since you only have 1 HR20) would be, that could have affected where the line would have to run from your dish (or in that case the switch) to her receiver. Since you don't have one, and her's is not a DVR, you can run a single line directly from your dish to her receiver. As stated above, perfectly legal. One dish, 2 Accounts. Not an issue. :)

Could do without the multiswitch, but that's illegal. She wanted me to do that in the beginning and order another receiver for her to use, even offering to split the bill 50-50. I respectfully declined. I like my DTV and I would really miss it in jail.

[Mark20]

I wonder when the FCC - in regards to competition and HOA's - will require that all HOA's install common satellite antennas and distribute the signal. You then have your choice of Dish, DIRECTV and cable.

[Canis Lupus]

That's probably a broader discussion getting into what HOAs do or do not do "under the table" with private companies (SAT, cable etc), but the government already protects your right to receive a TV signal from your choice of provider. It's actually the HOAs that tend to stand in the way of it.

[slimline]

yea if i was her i would ask to use a port off his dish no bs. the installer could do that in a jiffy ..........

[Drew2k]

Regarding sharing the dish between two accounts: Does this impact protection plan support if one account has it and the other doesn't?

[HD AV]

Well, the dish is installed on her front porch roof and, due to being pointed almost perpendicular to the side of her townhouse, is not that noticeable. I mean, yes, you see it, but it does not draw undue attention. I have no idea what she wrote up for the installer, I didn't want to know. He did an excellent job and she's happy with the installation. Even she commented that was a good location for it and doesn't think it is an eyesore or detracts from the units. I have not heard if she has gotten any grief yet, but I will keep you posted. This has the potential to get very interesting.

I would have let the installer hook up to my dish if he had inquired, but I prefer not to. You know how things can go bad with neighbors when any issue may crop up concerning the dish, or even if unrelated to the dish. I only have 1 line free as I do have an H20 upstairs. She had 3 hookups installed. I sold her my old SD Sony 5.1 DD unit for the downstairs bedroom ($50) and she is getting another leased SD unit for her upstairs bedroom in the near future. I don't think that this could have been done with only 1 line from my dish and the run being about 50' just to get to the back of her townhouse. Where her dish is installed, he was able to put all the connections where her existing cable went in and used the existing coax (which he said would not support the highest lnb voltage) to pull the new lines into her existing box connections. I mean, this guy spent 4.5 hrs and did a very professional installation. I was impressed.

He did tell me, though, that I should replace my cable for the upstairs H20 as the line from the dish is tied into my existing cable run from outside. He claims it will eventually burn through. I find that kind of hard to believe as it is quad shielded cable and my installer said it was good to use. I forget the RG, but I think that it's 6. He claims that the highest voltage to the lnbs on the cabel is 39 volts. I thought it was 21 or 22.

[Bugg77]

Definitely keep us posted. I feel like I'm reading a trashy novel and can't wait to hear what happens next... is that wrong?

[HD AV]

Definitely keep us posted. I feel like I'm reading a trashy novel and can't wait to hear what happens next... is that wrong?

No, HOAs and neighbors are like soap operas and I'm still curious to see where the storyline is going. Will keep posted.

[jdspencer]

IMHO, if there are no legal HOA covenents in place, then the dish can be placed wherever is needed to get reception.
The neighbor can just learn to live with it. :D

[yyyiiikes]

I used to live in a townhouse which was actually classified under condominium regulations. I was (and am) a DirectTV subscriber.... I was also on the Board of Directors for the HOA.

I got so sick of all the bickering and conflict that it eventually drove me to move to a house in an area with absolutely no restrictions. Guard rail to guard rail as we like to say at work.

Anyway, I can see both points of view. In my former association, the HOA owned the roof and was responsible for its upkeep and repair. From that perspective, guidelines and standards are certainly reasonable to maintain common property.

I would suggest you bring the idea forward to the HOA about dish sharing... it is probably not one they know about and could avoid many future hassles. I kow your neighbors problem is settled (at least with reception) but this will likely come up again and now a precedence has been set so the Board will need to manage that.

[tonyd79]

All well and good if you are one of the fortunate rich people who can afford enough land to not have neighbors. As for the rest of us, HOA contracts that are subject to the land purchase are the best way to avoid the things in life we consider to be "unsightly."

For instance, I am still looking for a neighborhood around here that doesn't allow cars to be parked outside. Even if people have nice vehicles, they always leave their junkiest car outside. (No one wants to see your 86 Ford Ranger STX!) Unfortunately, every neighborhood that has such a restriction has been out of my price rance so far...

This has to be the snobbiest post I have ever read on this forum.

You want to see pretty cars only in your neighborhood? Poor thing.

[glennb]

This has to be the snobbiest post I have ever read on this forum.

You want to see pretty cars only in your neighborhood? Poor thing.

That's exactly what I was thinking.

Poor baby has to look at an 86 Ford Ranger STX how dreadfully awful.
:rolleyes:
I think he actually wants a neghborhood that doesn't allow any cars parked outside.

[Drew2k]

Let's keep this civil and not make this personal!

:backtotop:

[bonscott87]

All well and good if you are one of the fortunate rich people who can afford enough land to not have neighbors. As for the rest of us, HOA contracts that are subject to the land purchase are the best way to avoid the things in life we consider to be "unsightly."

For instance, I am still looking for a neighborhood around here that doesn't allow cars to be parked outside. Even if people have nice vehicles, they always leave their junkiest car outside. (No one wants to see your 86 Ford Ranger STX!) Unfortunately, every neighborhood that has such a restriction has been out of my price rance so far...

Please. I live in the middle of the city in a decent neighborhood. The realtors call it "Leave it to Beaver" land because it was built in the 50's and still looks that way like on the TV show. Pretty much everyone keeps up their lawn and stuff.

Anyway it's as simple as finding a city that upholds their rules. In my city you can't have junker cars and stuff in the yard. If you do then you'll get the city all over your arss about it and they can fine you and have the cops take care of it if needed. If you don't mow your lawn then someone can call the city hotline and complain about it. And so forth. Benefits of an HOA without the downsides. I've got a camper and 2 satellite dishes in my backyard and nobody can tell me otherwise and they can bite me if they tried. Never, ever will I live in HOA land

But then I live in the Midwest where a 2500 square foot home can be had for under 200K easy so perhaps my perspective is different. I can move about 10 miles away and be out in the country on 5 acres of land with a nice house for cheap if I wanted. :)

Anyway, HD AV, keep us posted!

[joe diamond]

I live in an interior townhome, and I am an attorney, so I'm pretty familiar with this. Usually, the HOA agreement will forbid satellite installation altogether. That ban is overridden by federal law, which allows people to put up dishes...

HOWEVER, the HOA can place restrictions on WHERE the dish can go. Usually, they are banned from being placed where they are visible from the front of the townhome, and must be placed in the rear, so they are not visible from the street. When reception is not possible from the rear, it gets a little more sticky as to whether the HOA contract or the federal law prevail. Usually, the HOA must grant you a waiver if you can demonstrate that it is impossible or highly unreasonable for you to get reception from the rear of the townhome. That is not to say they won't try to reject you anyways. Even if they do, in order to get you to stop, they'd probably have to take you to court, though... and they'd most likely lose IF reception is TRUELY impossible from the rear.

Usually, reception IS possible from the rear... You just have installers who don't want to do the extra work, so they TELL you it's impossible. My installer told me REPEATEDLY it was impossible to install on the rear. When I was insistent, he finally caved and said he'd do it... For an extra $50... What a punk!

All the "PUNK" did was cave to your $50.00.

What he did was skip all the safety specifications that have evolved. Your dish is probably not grounded. The cable run is longer that may be practical for HD reception. You ,may nee dto dig in more lines in the future. And the list continues...

He should not have caved for $50.00. If something goes wrong he could have to expend more than $50.00 for the crappy work..if you can still find him.

Joe

[joe diamond]

I wonder when the FCC - in regards to competition and HOA's - will require that all HOA's install common satellite antennas and distribute the signal. You then have your choice of Dish, DIRECTV and cable.

Mark20,

Good idea except the "require" part. The last and most ineffective way to get things done is to make a government entity do it.

Remember CATV = Community Antenna TV and SMAT = System Master (dish) Antenna.

Just tell folks the news and they will wand it. The retrofit is a bitch, however.

Joe

[jasonblair]

All the "PUNK" did was cave to your $50.00.

What he did was skip all the safety specifications that have evolved. Your dish is probably not grounded. The cable run is longer that may be practical for HD reception. You ,may nee dto dig in more lines in the future. And the list continues...

He should not have caved for $50.00. If something goes wrong he could have to expend more than $50.00 for the crappy work..if you can still find him.

JoeThe dish is grounded, my signal is in the 90's on every sat position except one, and I have have no problems. He claimed it was impossible because he 1) didn't have a ladder that tall, and 2) there was no place to hide the cabling.

I held the ladder for him, and it was tall enough... And he tied the cabling along the outside of the gutters. Basically, the guy was just scared of heights on a 3 story townhome.

[jasonblair]

That's exactly what I was thinking.

Poor baby has to look at an 86 Ford Ranger STX how dreadfully awful.
:rolleyes:
I think he actually wants a neghborhood that doesn't allow any cars parked outside.Excactly. As someone who's been renting up until I bought my house this summer, I always dreamed of the day when I could garage my car. No bird poop and rain, no scraping ice off the windshield, and most importantly, no UV beating down on the clearcoat!

As someone who loves cars, I don't understand why people have two and three car garages, and then park all of their cars outside. Don't people want to protect their inverstment?

[jimmyt]

Then your not charging enough.. :)

Unfortunately, every neighborhood that has such a restriction has been out of my price rance so far...

[HD AV]

Update: Nothing said to my neighbor about the installation, YET. Still don't know how/what information she put in the letter to the installation company supposedly from the HOA. That is what I'd really like to know. If it was written as to appear from the HOA, she may be in for some real trouble over the letter giving permission. If it was a copy of the FCC regulations and a statement she owned the property, I think she is good to go. She's very pleased with the service/chanels and PQ

[itguy05]

For instance, I am still looking for a neighborhood around here that doesn't allow cars to be parked outside. Even if people have nice vehicles, they always leave their junkiest car outside. (No one wants to see your 86 Ford Ranger STX!) Unfortunately, every neighborhood that has such a restriction has been out of my price rance so far...

I love people like you. I would always drive around in my junker (86 Mustang) that was rusty, multiple colors and then park right next to the nicest car. Or squeeze into the space next to the guy taking up 2 spaces....

Or even leave it parked in the "nice" neighborhood or ride around there. Best part is it was 100% insured, inspected, and legal. Nothing anyone could say or do. Spent the best part of 4 years in front of the neighborhood.

Unfortunately it no longer passed state inspections and had to go to the scrapyard in the sky. Still miss the beater car though.

[sharksfan]

Or squeeze into the space next to the guy taking up 2 spaces....


I love the guys that park diagonal in non diagonal spots taking up half of each space. I always made a point of positioning my late model car in such a way that would cause the person some minor maneuvering to get out.

If your worried about *******s dinging your ride, dont park like one!

[jasonblair]

I love people like you. I would always drive around in my junker (86 Mustang) that was rusty, multiple colors and then park right next to the nicest car. Or squeeze into the space next to the guy taking up 2 spaces....

Or even leave it parked in the "nice" neighborhood or ride around there. Best part is it was 100% insured, inspected, and legal. Nothing anyone could say or do. Spent the best part of 4 years in front of the neighborhood.

Unfortunately it no longer passed state inspections and had to go to the scrapyard in the sky. Still miss the beater car though.I think you just proved my point... HOA restrictions can be a good thing.

[natebg]

Excactly. As someone who's been renting up until I bought my house this summer, I always dreamed of the day when I could garage my car. No bird poop and rain, no scraping ice off the windshield, and most importantly, no UV beating down on the clearcoat!

As someone who loves cars, I don't understand why people have two and three car garages, and then park all of their cars outside. Don't people want to protect their inverstment?

A vehicle is probably a bad investment.

Glad the install went well.

[REDSKINSFAN47]

+1 :D Happily living in the sticks and king of my castle!

+1, slimline 5lnb dish on back in plain site,ota on the roof,spare 18"round dish mounted on the ground and watered by dog daily

[rborden]

As for the rest of us, HOA contracts that are subject to the land purchase are the best way to avoid the things in life we consider to be "unsightly."

For instance, I am still looking for a neighborhood around here that doesn't allow cars to be parked outside. Even if people have nice vehicles, they always leave their junkiest car outside. (No one wants to see your 86 Ford Ranger STX!) Unfortunately, every neighborhood that has such a restriction has been out of my price rance so far...

Why would anyone want to give up their right to do what they want with thier personal property? As long as they are not physically harming another person it is none of anyone else's business. Just because we live in America does not give us the right to not be annoyed or have to see something that is "unsightly".

[mikbro]

Why would anyone want to give up their right to do what they want with thier personal property? As long as they are not physically harming another person it is none of anyone else's business. Just because we live in America does not give us the right to not be annoyed or have to see something that is "unsightly". O.K, I'm now stepping off the soapbox.:D

It is America and there are plenty of things you can't (or shouldn't) do even if you aren't "physically hurting" someone else... I don't want to live someplace where I have to live with some moron in a crappy '88 Civic playing music so loud I can feel it in my bedroom as they drive by at 2am.

Fortunately I have a job that allows me to afford to live in a nice house in a nice neighborhood where most of the neighbors can afford more than a '88 Civic and have better manners and respect for others to boot!

[randyk47]

I can't speak for other areas of the country but in Virginia and Texas the real estate laws require that a potential buyer be told that the house and surrounding community is part of an HOA. Part of closing is supposed to be, and I realize it sometimes doesn't happen, the delivery of the the HOA rules. Personally my last 4 houses have been in HOA governed communities and, while they can be a pain from time to time, I generally don't have a problem with the goal to maintain community standards. You'd think everybody would have the same interest and view of maintaining their property and the overall community but having served on several HOA boards and committees, up to and including being HOA president, I'll tell you folks do or ask to do the strangest things. While we here all might be well meaning folks and would never do anything unsightly or dangerous or whatever with or on our property I can't say that's true all the time. For us it comes down to our choice. Live in a controlled community or don't and understand if you do go with an HOA there are standards. Nobody forced us to buy where we bought.

[Lee L]

Also, in some states or municipailties, any subdivision over a certain size, say 50-100 lots is required to have an HOA in place to handle maintenance of things like common areas, retention ponds/stormwater control and other itmes. Like here, they town will pay for standard streetlights on a wood pole. If the developer wants nice black decorative lights, someone has to pay the difference every month to the power company.


So, essentially in my area, if you want anew house in a decent sized subdivision, you have no choice but to be in an HOA.

[carl6]

Someday in the future I plan to sell my current house and downsize. I have explored a few areas to try and narrow down what direction my wife and I might go, and in one case even got a real estate agent to spend a day with us showing us properties in one city. I told her in advance that I did not want to live where there were CCR's, as I intended to install ham radio and satellite antenna's. That greatly limited the properties that we were shown.

I realize there are exemptions for both (ham radio and satellite antennas), but it's just easier to not have to deal with the hassles.

Carl

[jasonblair]

Exactly my point. People like to shout, "I should have the right to do what I want on my property." Well, if you want to do ANYTHING, then make sure you don't contract that right away when you buy.

If, however, you want the ability to make sure your neighbors aren't doing things that bug you, look for a place with an HOA. You know the rules beforehand, and you sign away your right to anything you want in the contract you sign when you buy the house.

It just bugs me when people buy a home that is subject to an HOA contract, and then they start saying "This is America! This is my property! I have the right to do what I want!"

My sister bought a home in a neighborhood without an HOA. All nice homes. A doctor moved in next door, and painted the house psychadelic purple, blue, orange, red, and green. (And I do mean PSYCHADELIC!) They never mowed the lawn, and there was a half-deflated moon-bounce in the front yard 24/7/365. Now tell me ANY of you wouldn't wish there was an HOA around in that case...

[Lee L]

And, I have found first hand that the best way to make sure hte board does not get crazy is to participate. Go to the meetings, offer to help and usually so few people are willing, you can be on the board by default.

[akron05]

All well and good if you are one of the fortunate rich people who can afford enough land to not have neighbors. As for the rest of us, HOA contracts that are subject to the land purchase are the best way to avoid the things in life we consider to be "unsightly."

For instance, I am still looking for a neighborhood around here that doesn't allow cars to be parked outside. Even if people have nice vehicles, they always leave their junkiest car outside. (No one wants to see your 86 Ford Ranger STX!) Unfortunately, every neighborhood that has such a restriction has been out of my price rance so far...

Well la-de-frickin do! That's a pretty elitist attitude.

[akron05]

Why would anyone want to give up their right to do what they want with thier personal property? As long as they are not physically harming another person it is none of anyone else's business. Just because we live in America does not give us the right to not be annoyed or have to see something that is "unsightly". O.K, I'm now stepping off the soapbox.:D

An ex girlfriend of mine ran into this sort of issue with regards to an E* Dish I had back in '02. E* needed a letter from her HOA to do an install and they wouldn't give it to her, so I, *trying* to be chivalrous, stepped in to help. The HOA board member was a rather unattractive older lady, and she kept rambling on about it being "unsightly" and an "eyesore."

So, I said something I later felt bad about. I said "listen lady, YOU'RE an eyesore but I don't see anyone from the HOA saying you can't go outside!"

It was mean, but my gf got her dish eventually. :lol:

[Canis Lupus]

One of the biggest problems with HOAs is , in fact, the lack of participation. Every single time someone's had an issue with me, or multiple neighbors, it's been because there's a new "President" who has a bone to pick.

Our current President starting galavanting around the neighborhood questioning the placement of all the dishes. When I met with him I was able to help him understand why sometimes dishes were placed as they were. Turns out his next door neighbor had just put one up on the front of their house.

Then he tried to explain to me a new "addendum" he was pushing, where dish placement would be more restricted. I said, "Well as you can see mine's on the side of the house, but near the front so you can see it from the street". He said, "Well this rule would only apply to new installs and they would grandfather in the current ones".

When the proposed change arrived in my mailbox for voting, there was no mention of grandfathering. So I voted No.

[lifelong]

I really can't understand why some people like the association president you mentioned have such a huge problem with these dishes.

[akron05]

I really can't understand why some people like the association president you mentioned have such a huge problem with these dishes.

Because they want their neighborhood to look sterile and un-lived in, like something out of "Children of the Corn" or something.

[Canis Lupus]

Or in this case, he only suddenly cared because it was now in "his back yard". Then he probably ran for president of the HOA, unopposed, because no one else wanted the job. Happens all the time.

[lifelong]

Or in this case, he only suddenly cared because it was now in "his back yard". The he probably ran for president of the HOA, unopposed, because no one else wanted the job. Happens all the time.

I get this guy's power trip issues, but I can't figure out why people have a problem with the dish. This is somewhat more understandable in a high-rise condo if people start hanging dishes off the balcony. That arguably upsets the aesthetics of the building, but it's different in a subdivision of single family homes. These dishes seem hardly noticeable to me and about as ugly as a mailbox or chimney. Will they try to outlaw those next?

[Canis Lupus]

I have to agree with you on that one. Chimney stacks, multiple exhaust vents, all kinds of things coming off the side or top of the house. I don't get it either. Maybe they're just jealous cuz they have cable. :p

[randyk47]

Actually we don't have mailboxes. Between the Post Office and the HOA we have centralized mail in the neighborhood. Quicker for the PO and neater from the HOA point of view. :-)

[lifelong]

Actually we don't have mailboxes. Between the Post Office and the HOA we have centralized mail in the neighborhood. Quicker for the PO and neater from the HOA point of view. :-)

it's neater until people start losing their mailbox keys.

[jasonblair]

Actually we don't have mailboxes. Between the Post Office and the HOA we have centralized mail in the neighborhood. Quicker for the PO and neater from the HOA point of view. :-)Considering that at least one day a week I get my neighbor's mail in my box, I cringe to think how many times my mail has gone to a neighbor who doesn't take the time to drop it by.

[mjones73]

We have 3 houses with the same number in my neighborhood and I routinely get mail for both and my box is in my front yard, doesn't matter if they are together or not. :)

[akron05]

Actually we don't have mailboxes. Between the Post Office and the HOA we have centralized mail in the neighborhood. Quicker for the PO and neater from the HOA point of view. :-)

So when the mail comes you have to put on shoes and walk 3 blocks in 4 degree weather?

No thanks.

[Lee L]

I love dishes, but there are a couple of examples from my old neighboorhood where I can only assume lazy installers put them right on the fornt of the garage instead of behind the house so they did not have to get a taller ladder. Pretty crappy.

[Herdfan]

We had a HOA President a few years back that if you have every seen the movie Over The Hedge nailed her to a T. Well to make a long story short, her and I didn't get along. At the annual meeting the Agenda had some new "rules" that were to be discussed and one of them had to do with the placement of dishes.

The Board wanted to restrict dishes to the rear of the property without exception. Now I live in a very hilly neighborhood with lots of old growth oak trees. The back yard simply won't work for a large number of houses.

So when it was time for discussion on the issue, I let her ramble on for a few minutes as to why they wanted to do this. After the floor was opened to discussion, I asked s very simple question. Are there any laws that govern restrictions on satellite dishes? She assured everyone that there were no such laws.

So I took a copy of the OTARD up and gave it to the Board and I had a few extra copies that I passed around and explained that neither the Board or the County Zoning Regulations could enforce such restriction as the FCC law trumped anything they wanted to do and passing such restrictions would do nothing but invite issues.

She was sufficiently embarrassed and the Board withdrew the proposal.

[randyk47]

Akron05 - Luckily we don't get much 4 degree weather here in San Antonio. However, had community mail boxes in Northern Virginia and while not exactly the "frozen north" it can be quite cold. Luckily our consolidated box was actually adjacent to my property so it wasn't a matter of blocks. Typically they put the boxes in enough locations throughout a community that having to walk a block would be a rare occasion. Now my ex in-laws lived in a San Diego area community where they had just one "post office" like building just inside the main gate to the community. No bad weather but not exactly a short walk from my in-laws' home. Community was so protective they didn't want even the mailman driving around. UPS/FedEx et al had to call from the gate and be let in. Of course, that was the most restrictive HOA I've ever seen and I've lived in 4 controlled communities since 1987. They even had HOA "police" who wrote tickets for home owner violations.

[Bill Broderick]

So when the mail comes you have to put on shoes and walk 3 blocks in 4 degree weather?

No thanks.


...or write 'wrong address' on the incorrectly delivered item and put it back into the mailbox for the mailman to re-deliver.

If the mailman gives me an item that should go to a neighbor, I will put it in their mailbox myself. If he gives me an item that should have been delivered to a different street, I let him deliver it.