DTV only pays installer/contractor $80, whether the job is 1 hour or 4 hours?

[bluemoose]

I was chatting with the installer who came to my house the other day. He told me that DTV only pays his company $80 for each job, whether it's 1 hour or 4 hours. A simply dish swap and DVR install may only take 1 hour, but once the DVR is powered up, it may take another 20 to 30 minutes to update before they can activate it... then there's other variables that can stretch a short job by another hour or two. Is this true? Or was he just trying to get me to tip him?

Also, he said if something goes wrong with the install, DTV will not pay them again. The original installer who came out will have his $80 pay deducted in half. The other $40 goes to the second installer who has to come out to fix the problem...

The company in question is a contractor working for Mastec.(a company that works with DTV in my area)

:confused:

[jdogg]

I was chatting with the installer who came to my house the other day. He told me that DTV only pays his company $80 for each job, whether it's 1 hour or 4 hours. A simply dish swap and DVR install may only take 1 hour, but once the DVR is powered up, it may take another 20 to 30 minutes to update before they can activate it... then there's other variables that can stretch a short job by another hour or two. Is this true? Or was he just trying to get me to tip him?

Also, he said if something goes wrong with the install, DTV will not pay them again. The original installer who came out will have his $80 pay deducted in half. The other $40 goes to the second installer who has to come out to fix the problem...

The company in question is a contractor working for Mastec.(a company that works with DTV in my area)

:confused:

he may of been trying to get a tip but from what he says it is true, we get paid by the job, installs are 55, 15 for additional receivers, all services cost the company 75 and you only get 15 if you are there form 20m to 8 hours you get 15

[bluemoose]

he may of been trying to get a tip but from what he says it is true, we get paid by the job, installs are 55, 15 for additional receivers, all services cost the company 75 and you only get 15 if you are there form 20m to 8 hours you get 15

now I feel so bad, I should have given him more tip...(only gave him a $20, since that's all I had in the house at the time... could have written him a check)

by comparison, my car dealer's service dept has a sign that says "base labor rate: $165/hour, vehicles not picked within 24 hours of completion of work will be charged $30/day for parking" But they do have six gorgeous 58" 1808p plamas TVs in the waiting lounge, as well as a $3000 espresso machine(that I've been wanting for years), and on weekdays mornings they even have a chef making cooked-to-order breakfasts for waiting customers. Nice perks, but there's no way I'm going to give them my business after the warranty runs out. :D

[gothamcity]

tip an installer? I have never heard of such a thing. Is it my problem the installer doesn't get paid much money? I didn't choose his career for him. If Direct TV is selling a service with free installation why would I pay for it because the guy doing the install doesn't make much money?

[fusion04]

tip an installer? I have never heard of such a thing. Is it my problem the installer doesn't get paid much money? I didn't choose his career for him. If Direct TV is selling a service with free installation why would I pay for it because the guy doing the install doesn't make much money?

By giving the installer a tip, you are not "paying for the installation". You are expressing your appreciation for a job well done by the installer by giving a little extra to the installer.

[bluemoose]

tip an installer? I have never heard of such a thing. Is it my problem the installer doesn't get paid much money? I didn't choose his career for him. If Direct TV is selling a service with free installation why would I pay for it because the guy doing the install doesn't make much money?

That's also why I don't tip when I go to restaurants... :D It ain't my problem when the restaurant owners don't pay the waiters enouogh money.... :D

[bluemoose]

By giving the installer a tip, you are not "paying for the installation". You are expressing your appreciation for a job well done by the installer by giving a little extra to the installer.

I wonder if any DirecTV installers have ever submitted stories to the Penthouse Forums.... "....after I finished hooking up the DVR, the lady of the house gave me a....." :D

[gothamcity]

By giving the installer a tip, you are not "paying for the installation". You are expressing your appreciation for a job well done by the installer by giving a little extra to the installer.

I would expect a job well done by the fact that Direct TV is paying him to do the job right the first time.....:)

[phat78boy]

That's also why I don't tip when I go to restaurants... :D It ain't my problem when the restaurant owners don't pay the waiters enouogh money.... :D

Thats in poor taste. Maybe togo would be a better idea.

[davejacobson]

and some people wonder why your free install is bad. At that rate a good installer will find another job that pays. $80 covers about 1hr in the real world of service.

[HD AV]

The last installer that came out told me he gets $12.00/hr. He said he usually works 12 hr days 6 and sometimes 7 days a week.

[bluemoose]

The last installer that came out told me he gets $12.00/hr. He said he usually works 12 hr days 6 and sometimes 7 days a week.

that's what my installer said as well.... he worked 7 days a week in December. Only got one day off in the entire month, only because of the ice storm on that day... :(

[slimline]

I was chatting with the installer who came to my house the other day. He told me that DTV only pays his company $80 for each job, whether it's 1 hour or 4 hours. A simply dish swap and DVR install may only take 1 hour, but once the DVR is powered up, it may take another 20 to 30 minutes to update before they can activate it... then there's other variables that can stretch a short job by another hour or two. Is this true? Or was he just trying to get me to tip him?

Also, he said if something goes wrong with the install, DTV will not pay them again. The original installer who came out will have his $80 pay deducted in half. The other $40 goes to the second installer who has to come out to fix the problem...

The company in question is a contractor working for Mastec.(a company that works with DTV in my area)

:confused:

true and some donot even get paid that much 70 for dish and first receiver and
20 for every one after that. thats no joke thats why there is so many crappy install stories you get what you pay for ......................

try sitting on hold with d tv for an hour, waiting for the ird to update,
hmmmmmmmm

and service calls to fix problems you think they would pay good
here is what they pay 30 try driving 80 miles round trip for a service call for 30....................

[shelland]

By giving the installer a tip, you are not "paying for the installation". You are expressing your appreciation for a job well done by the installer by giving a little extra to the installer.
If by some act of God I ever experience a 'job well done', I'll certainly consider a tip.

I've had 3 DirecTV installs over the last 3 years, which have required a total of 10 installer visits to get things working.

No offense to any installers here - I can only comment on my personal experiences... (which have been far from good)

[Birdman79]

From what i 've seen middle or lower class folks are willing to tip more then upper class ones...:grin:

[cantrellswire]

Greetings,

I had to jump in on this discussion. I am a contractor under Mastec and I have to say, the compensation is more than horrible. The days of the "professional" installer
are well over. I installed for about 2 years some 4 years ago. I've just invested thousands to get back into the business and I am extremely disappointed. In the past three months, I have worked for two companies and I have only received some $1,200 from them collectively. If it weren't for another source of income I would have gone bankrupt by now. I am only continuing in the business for prospects.

In the two shops I worked in few spoke proper English, even fewer had a clue as to what they were doing. The overall attitude of the supervisors was, "Get it to work, we don't care." I spent most of my time cleaning up other peoples messes. It really is a shame, DirecTV, in my opinion has the best television service out there. How they've survived with the poor installation management and compensation thus far is beyond me.

I'm continuing to do a job well done, any training I receive is provided solely by myself. I can not deny the business prospects I receive through DirecTV, that is what keeps me going.

Anyway, I've gone off on a rant and I believe I've lost my point.

Indeed, tips are not necessary, but if I know I'm going to get a tip or custom work, you'd better know you're going to get an professional install. You get what you pay for, compensation from Mastec in DFW is $60 for the antenna and one receiver, $10 for each additional receiver no matter the amount of time or materials involved. Ka/Ku upgrades are worse, $35 for double the work. After cable, fittings, drop materials and fuel, we may as well be making minimum wage.

In conclusion, best of luck to you ordering DirecTV. Chances of you getting me are slim to none.

Blake Cantrell

[bluemoose]

Greetings,

I had to jump in on this discussion. I am a contractor under Mastec and I have to say, the compensation is more than horrible. The days of the "professional" installer
are well over. I installed for about 2 years some 4 years ago. I've just invested thousands to get back into the business and I am extremely disappointed. In the past three months, I have worked for two companies and I have only received some $1,200 from them collectively. If it weren't for another source of income I would have gone bankrupt by now. I am only continuing in the business for prospects.

In the two shops I worked in few spoke proper English, even fewer had a clue as to what they were doing. The overall attitude of the supervisors was, "Get it to work, we don't care." I spent most of my time cleaning up other peoples messes. It really is a shame, DirecTV, in my opinion has the best television service out there. How they've survived with the poor installation management and compensation thus far is beyond me.

I'm continuing to do a job well done, any training I receive is provided solely by myself. I can not deny the business prospects I receive through DirecTV, that is what keeps me going.

Anyway, I've gone off on a rant and I believe I've lost my point.

Indeed, tips are not necessary, but if I know I'm going to get a tip or custom work, you'd better know you're going to get an professional install. You get what you pay for, compensation from Mastec in DFW is $60 for the antenna and one receiver, $10 for each additional receiver no matter the amount of time or materials involved. Ka/Ku upgrades are worse, $35 for double the work. After cable, fittings, drop materials and fuel, we may as well be making minimum wage.

In conclusion, best of luck to you ordering DirecTV. Chances of you getting me are slim to none.

Blake Cantrell

Sooner or later, I think this will come back and bite DirecTV in the ass.... :) When the customers are unhappy, they usually blame DirecTV, not the contractor.

[mpaquette]

I tipped my installer $40 because he did a fantastic job. My 3 previous installations were done by me so I was a bit leary of letting someone else do it. He installed the pole, grounded everything correctly, hooked all 4 cables to the dish, sat on hold during the activation, etc. etc. Yeah, I know he's supposed to do that stuff, but too many times these days people don't do what they are supposed to do. When I get good service I tip.

[elaclair]

Thats in poor taste. Maybe togo would be a better idea.


bluemoose was just being facetious.....

[bluemoose]

bluemoose was just being facetious.....

Just to be clear, my name isn't Christopher Moltisanti.... :D

[slimline]

Greetings,

I had to jump in on this discussion. I am a contractor under Mastec and I have to say, the compensation is more than horrible. The days of the "professional" installer
are well over. I installed for about 2 years some 4 years ago. I've just invested thousands to get back into the business and I am extremely disappointed. In the past three months, I have worked for two companies and I have only received some $1,200 from them collectively. If it weren't for another source of income I would have gone bankrupt by now. I am only continuing in the business for prospects.

In the two shops I worked in few spoke proper English, even fewer had a clue as to what they were doing. The overall attitude of the supervisors was, "Get it to work, we don't care." I spent most of my time cleaning up other peoples messes. It really is a shame, DirecTV, in my opinion has the best television service out there. How they've survived with the poor installation management and compensation thus far is beyond me.

I'm continuing to do a job well done, any training I receive is provided solely by myself. I can not deny the business prospects I receive through DirecTV, that is what keeps me going.

Anyway, I've gone off on a rant and I believe I've lost my point.

Indeed, tips are not necessary, but if I know I'm going to get a tip or custom work, you'd better know you're going to get an professional install. You get what you pay for, compensation from Mastec in DFW is $60 for the antenna and one receiver, $10 for each additional receiver no matter the amount of time or materials involved. Ka/Ku upgrades are worse, $35 for double the work. After cable, fittings, drop materials and fuel, we may as well be making minimum wage.

In conclusion, best of luck to you ordering DirecTV. Chances of you getting me are slim to none.

Blake Cantrell

1 million % true get the training and move on you working for the wrong company you need to work for yourself as an hsp pm me i may have some infor for you...................

[bluemoose]

1 million % true get the training and move on you working for the wrong company you need to work for yourself as an hsp pm me i may have some infor for you...................

my installer told me that the local contractor for Mastec has been unable to fill 50+ installer job vacancies in the last 6 months... hmmm.... I wonder why? :D

[cantrellswire]

Sooner or later, I think this will come back and bite DirecTV in the ass.... :) When the customers are unhappy, they usually blame DirecTV, not the contractor.


Unfortunately, this is exactly why DirecT uses contractors.
"I understand your frustration, we are aware of this situation and are working on it. I appreciate your frustrations and I apologize".

Sadly, it's not the Customers who will fix this, it's not DirecTV that will fix this, it's the installers. But as long as there are uneducated jerks out there willing to work for next to nothing, and don't realize how badly they are shorting themselves, nothing will change.

There is not a single individual in my shop smart enough or bright enough to turn that little light on in thier pee sized brains to say "Hey, I'm working six days a week, spending $400 a month in gas and averaging about $9 an hour. This isn't right!?"

I keep my mouth shut because I know I'll move on. Most of these guys don't even know what dielectric grease it. Or how to put in a wall box after charging someone $65 for a wall fish!

Wow, I have rage built up in me today and should calm down. "This is temporary Blake. Only temporary."

[Matt9876]

Contractor using my own truck,I pay for everything!

Install 3LNB dish and D-12 unit about 2 hours work = $60

Install 5LNB dish and HR20 unit,phone line and antenna 4-5 hours work= $60


Get $15 for each extra unit, no extra pay for multi switch or second line to DVR.

Make the boss mad and he will starve you to death.

Something fails during the first 90 days even 100 miles away $0 to fix it.

Until Bush was elected I had a good Union Job in Palm Beach Fl.

Never worked so hard in my life for so little pay.

[glennb]

I'm another person that doesn't believe in tipping an installer for doing a "really good job". I'd expect them to do a really good job, and call to complain if they did a crappy job.

[slimline]

Contractor using my own truck,I pay for everything!

Install 3LNB dish and D-12 unit about 2 hours work = $60

Install 5LNB dish and HR20 unit,phone line and antenna 4-5 hours work= $60


Get $15 for each extra unit, no extra pay for multi switch or second line to DVR.

Make the boss mad and he will starve you to death.

Something fails during the first 90 days even 100 miles away $0 to fix it.

Until Bush was elected I had a good Union Job in Palm Beach Fl.

Never worked so hard in my life for so little pay.

5hours of work for 60 no thanks and still wire switches for free thats a joke.

however its not your fault you not making much more than that on the install yourself.............

[gfezz]

New install or upgrade, the promptness and quality of the install, I think leaves an
impression on the customer that DTV doesn't seem to put much stock in....

I have been waiting nearly a month for an upgrade to HD. I can attribute some of it to bad weather in the midwest though.

Finding reliable qualified workers to brave the elements for this kind of pay has to be a problem I would think.

I have always pre-wired inside my home. I am usually at work during an install. I'm a hand's on type of guy and it's done the way I want at least, and leaves the installer better able to use his time.... I hope....

I will consider pre-wiring indoors suitable as a tip to the installer in my case....

Man they better show up Monday.... grrrr !!

:lol:

[OverThereTooMuch]

Contractor using my own truck,I pay for everything!

Install 3LNB dish and D-12 unit about 2 hours work = $60

Install 5LNB dish and HR20 unit,phone line and antenna 4-5 hours work= $60


Get $15 for each extra unit, no extra pay for multi switch or second line to DVR.


Something fails during the first 90 days even 100 miles away $0 to fix it.

Why on earth would ANYONE do this job for this horrible pay?

I thought the way the installers made up for the crappy DTV payment was to charge huge amounts to the customer for extras, like nice wall plates, snaking the lines behind the wall, etc. And I thought installing the phone line was one of those extras. What happened to charging for those things?

I know I've seen threads where after 2-3 bad installs, most contractors had an expert that they would send out to make everything right, no matter how long it took. I can't imagine anyone that knows what they're doing staying in this job very long.

Wasn't DTV going to get rid of contractors for this (because of the wide range of crappy experiences many customers were having) and bring it all back in-house so they could have more control over quality?

Both of my DTV installs so far have been pretty painless. Threads like this make me dread the next one. I have to get a new dish installed :(

[Shield]

I've just invested thousands to get back into the business and I am extremely disappointed.

Blake Cantrell

Out of curiosity, what did you invest thousands in? The vehicle? Some tools?

I'm really not trying to be condescending here...just curious where all the money went?

[Shield]

Contractor using my own truck,I pay for everything!

Install 3LNB dish and D-12 unit about 2 hours work = $60

Install 5LNB dish and HR20 unit,phone line and antenna 4-5 hours work= $60


Get $15 for each extra unit, no extra pay for multi switch or second line to DVR.

Make the boss mad and he will starve you to death.

Something fails during the first 90 days even 100 miles away $0 to fix it.

Until Bush was elected I had a good Union Job in Palm Beach Fl.

Never worked so hard in my life for so little pay.


So in Jan 2001 life was roses, until the 20th or whatever that Bush took office? Sorry, but I can't stand this anymore. I'm working as an engineer for the gov't (networking) and have spent 12 years struggling to make the 80k per year I make. I have 2 MCSE's, CNA, Cisco certs, etc and am finishing a bachelor's degree this year in Information Technology. Do you have any idea how much training and education and after hours crap we have to put in on the network side just to stay current and up to date in our line of work? I worked pretty hard at some point to get where I am today, and would never blame a sitting president for my current predicament even if I'd walk into work Monday and get fired.
How about learning a different trade and pulling yourself up by your bootstrap? This is America - how big is the gun pointed at your head that makes you continue in your current line of work?

"Make the boss mad and he will starve you to death"

No one is starving myself, my wife, or my 17 month old son, ever. I'd get off my butt and find a 30k job if I had to, just to keep the lights on.

Also, you do get to write off the mileage and any other expenses associated with your work vehicle, don't you? I sure don't get to write off mileage everyday driving back and forth to work, and neither does my wife...:mad:

[cantrellswire]

Out of curiosity, what did you invest thousands in? The vehicle? Some tools?

I'm really not trying to be condescending here...just curious where all the money went?

White Ford F250 Work Truck (Not my choice of car, I miss my 4Runner.) It's all work and no lay. $8,500

Applied Instruments Super Buddy. $678
Wall fishing Roy Rods $129.00
Magnepull $119.00
My tool belt and hand tools somewhere around $350.00 (Craftsman, can't help myself, love the service)
Fiber Optic Wall Scope $200.00
Extensions for scope $120.00
Fiber Glass Ladders $298 28' $169 16' $42 4' step ladder
Cable toner with dial tone $139.00 this is the one that tones through walls
Cable toner for multiple lines $79.00
AC/DC Volt Tester $99.00
Strippers $34.00 x2
Compressors $55.00 x2
Specialty Drill Bits 3' foot 6' and extensions $129.00
Masonry Bits $129.00 I have a number of them
Wood bits and random $100.00
Organization materials for my truck ie bins, trays, racks and straps well over $300
Work camper with side doors $1,200
Holland Electronics Dark Tester $599.99
Test-Um LB255 DSL Safe Ranger Butt Set $229.99
Test-Um TP600 Lanroamer Pro Network Tester $139.99

Total not including truck $4041

This is just the tools, this does not include drop material. I know for a d installer I am way over equipped, but I don't like to work hard and these tools make my life easier. DTV as I stated before is just an in between job. But man, they are burning me out quick.

[finaldiet]

Called DTV to have a dish removed from roof and re-locate to ground mount. When he came, I left work to talk to him to make sure he understood what I wanted. When I saw him, i Said to myself" I'm in trouble". He was a big, heavy set fellow and moved pretty slow. Told him I'd be back in a couple of hours. He was gone when I came home and thought this was not good. Went in back yard and couldn't believe the job this guy did. He cemented post( which he brought) in ground, installed dish, ran new cable underground to house, and checked dish alignment. Connections were well done also. What a great job!! The cost was $52.80 through DTV, for everything!:D I was sorry I missed this guy because I definitely would have tipped him for a job well done.

[chopperjc]

Appreciation or entitlement. Over the years I will bet I have had at least 10 instalments. I have tipped an installer once. First I understand the fact most of us are overworked and underpaid. I do not believe I should tip for a job that was either quick and easy or for work that was ordered and paid for. The one reason I did tip an installer was when my sidecar dish was installed. It had been a complete Mastec horror story which I will not bore you with the details. The installer I tipped 30 bucks too and fed pizza went above and beyond and did my setup sturdy, exactly what I wanted including how I wanted wires run and hid them even better than I thought was possible (apartment). He obviously put a lot of effort into it and I certainly appreciated it and backed it up with cash. As a sidenote received another DVR a couple of months ago had the wires ready I even connected it (a little picky about my system, I am trying to let that go) for him. He activated then asked me for a tip. I laughed as I was closing the door.

My point of the rant? When I appreciate the service and the work I will show it. When an installer (or anyone) believes they are entitled (exceptions, human rights, privacy, health care and a few others) and do the bare minimum or nothing special was done then I do not believe I should have to tip.

[leww37334]

From what i 've seen middle or lower class folks are willing to tip more then upper class ones...:grin:


I'd say that is probably true, and I would venture to guess that it is because they have been there.....

I used to work in a restaurant and tips were very much appreciated.

[Jimmy the Dish]

I run my own business and pay my installers well. $90-20 a extra line is free if it's a single wall punch from the exterior. Phone lines, walls being fished, ground mount are all considered custom installation. We charge $65 hour labor for such work.

[Shield]

White Ford F250 Work Truck (Not my choice of car, I miss my 4Runner.) It's all work and no lay. $8,500

Applied Instruments Super Buddy. $678
Wall fishing Roy Rods $129.00
Magnepull $119.00
My tool belt and hand tools somewhere around $350.00 (Craftsman, can't help myself, love the service)
Fiber Optic Wall Scope $200.00
Extensions for scope $120.00
Fiber Glass Ladders $298 28' $169 16' $42 4' step ladder
Cable toner with dial tone $139.00 this is the one that tones through walls
Cable toner for multiple lines $79.00
AC/DC Volt Tester $99.00
Strippers $34.00 x2
Compressors $55.00 x2
Specialty Drill Bits 3' foot 6' and extensions $129.00
Masonry Bits $129.00 I have a number of them
Wood bits and random $100.00
Organization materials for my truck ie bins, trays, racks and straps well over $300
Work camper with side doors $1,200
Holland Electronics Dark Tester $599.99
Test-Um LB255 DSL Safe Ranger Butt Set $229.99
Test-Um TP600 Lanroamer Pro Network Tester $139.99

Total not including truck $4041

This is just the tools, this does not include drop material. I know for a d installer I am way over equipped, but I don't like to work hard and these tools make my life easier. DTV as I stated before is just an in between job. But man, they are burning me out quick.

Wow. You shouldn't be doing installs for Directv; you should be doing custom work for someone and making much more money.
You can write all of this stuff off at least as a business expense, right?
What is a Holland Electronics Dark Tester?

The guy that came out to my house? It was dark, and he used just the light off his "cell phone". I ran a trouble light up to him on the ladder and he was happy.

[cantrellswire]

Wow. You shouldn't be doing installs for Directv; you should be doing custom work for someone and making much more money.
You can write all of this stuff off at least as a business expense, right?
What is a Holland Electronics Dark Tester?

The guy that came out to my house? It was dark, and he used just the light off his "cell phone". I ran a trouble light up to him on the ladder and he was happy.

LoL! Well, installing for DTV is temporary for sure. I am still building my tool list and I want to carry an inventory for structured cabling. I'm looking to invest another $4000 in the next 2 to 3 months. My compensation from DTV now is only good for covering costs, business prospects and giving me something to do during the day. Otherwise it's a joke!

Everything I buy is a right off. I have a business license and tax id. Gas, tools truck lunch meetings. I have a great business mentor. My mother. She ran a home health agency for 15 years and did very well.

Holland Electronics Dark Tester is a fantastic tool for tracing, testing and verifying cable. On the few high end installs I get right now in large homes I can simulate the 2150 MHz frequency directv uses for the new hd. If a copper clad line is too long and will not carry the signal properly, I know to offer an in-line amp before I even mess with the dish. You can read more and see a video here (http://www.techtoolsupply.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1829).

[cantrellswire]

I run my own business and pay my installers well. $90-20 a extra line is free if it's a single wall punch from the exterior. Phone lines, walls being fished, ground mount are all considered custom installation. We charge $65 hour labor for such work.

Where do I need to live so we can do business? :lol:

[rotomike]

well I am an installer and have been for 8 years or more..... and i can say that i make more then the prices posted here thank god!!! I feel bad for some installers making crap for money man i cant imagine it. Direct kicks back $175 for standard 4 room install and more for hi-def... I can say that i make at least $100 per install and up to $200 on a doosey but thats because i am a subcontractor and work directly for a dealer and most of these companies are subcontractors themselves so they have to pay less to make money. it would be like you working for me. I get paid per job and some take one hour and some take 7 hours but it all equals out in the end. probably an average of 3-4 hours per house. because i make more i spend more time doing it right and much more time with customer showing them things and i dont leave unless the customer is happy and most are. i get some tips and glad to take them and i think mostly because the customer knows i went above the call of duty showing them things and they are gratefull. I would have to say that tips only come from 5% of the customers so they dont happen often. I have all my own tools and buy all my supplies like cable etc... I can see geting $60 per install and $15 each additional receiver would be al-right if the company supplied your vehicle and tools and supplies and benefits. Any less will get you poor quality installers on average.

mike

[bluemoose]

...........if the company supplied your vehicle and tools and supplies and benefits. .............

mike

funny you should mention that... that installer who came to my house drove his own vehicle. it was a first-generation Chrysler minivan from the 1980s, with wood exterior molding that was only held up by bungee cords.... :( One of the rear windows had duct tape to cover up the cracked glass...

[slimline]

New install or upgrade, the promptness and quality of the install, I think leaves an
impression on the customer that DTV doesn't seem to put much stock in....

I have been waiting nearly a month for an upgrade to HD. I can attribute some of it to bad weather in the midwest though.

Finding reliable qualified workers to brave the elements for this kind of pay has to be a problem I would think.

I have always pre-wired inside my home. I am usually at work during an install. I'm a hand's on type of guy and it's done the way I want at least, and leaves the installer better able to use his time.... I hope....

I will consider pre-wiring indoors suitable as a tip to the installer in my case....

Man they better show up Monday.... grrrr !!

:lol:

I HAVE SEEN A LIST OF CUSTOMERS THAT HAVE BEEN WAITNG FOR MORE THAN
60 DAYS FOR THERE INSTALL. SOME ARE JUST OUT SIDE MY M/A AND I REFUSE TO GO OUT OF MY M/A FOR THE PAY STRUCTURE. CHANCE ARE ITS A TRYING TO FIND A TECH ISSUE ITS DTV FAULT YOU ARE NOT INSTALLED.

[joe diamond]

Why on earth would ANYONE do this job for this horrible pay?

I thought the way the installers made up for the crappy DTV payment was to charge huge amounts to the customer for extras, like nice wall plates, snaking the lines behind the wall, etc. And I thought installing the phone line was one of those extras. What happened to charging for those things?

I know I've seen threads where after 2-3 bad installs, most contractors had an expert that they would send out to make everything right, no matter how long it took. I can't imagine anyone that knows what they're doing staying in this job very long.

Wasn't DTV going to get rid of contractors for this (because of the wide range of crappy experiences many customers were having) and bring it all back in-house so they could have more control over quality?

Both of my DTV installs so far have been pretty painless. Threads like this make me dread the next one. I have to get a new dish installed :(
===============
Over There Too Much.

You got it! DTV dumped the contractors thy had. The competent ones just moved on. The crappy install-under trained just moved to the HSP system.

I just left a company that was getting work from MASTEC...they are paralyzed by phone communication. Work= 20%......Driving = 40%.....BS Meetings = 30%..........Phone Holds = 50 %..Total =140% What would you remove?

Joe

[slimline]

Why on earth would ANYONE do this job for this horrible pay?

I thought the way the installers made up for the crappy DTV payment was to charge huge amounts to the customer for extras, like nice wall plates, snaking the lines behind the wall, etc. And I thought installing the phone line was one of those extras. What happened to charging for those things?

I know I've seen threads where after 2-3 bad installs, most contractors had an expert that they would send out to make everything right, no matter how long it took. I can't imagine anyone that knows what they're doing staying in this job very long.

Wasn't DTV going to get rid of contractors for this (because of the wide range of crappy experiences many customers were having) and bring it all back in-house so they could have more control over quality?

Both of my DTV installs so far have been pretty painless. Threads like this make me dread the next one. I have to get a new dish installed :(

ITS MONEY DTV WILL NEVER TAKE THE INSTALLS OVER NEVER HAPPEN .

WE DO CHARGE FOR XTRAS .. HOWEVER A PHONE LINE WE CANT CHARGE FOR

THATS A FREBIE NO MATTER HOW FAR OR WHATS INVOLVED.

THE "FREE" INSTALL BY BOTH PROVIDERS KILLED THIS INDUSTRY. AND I WILL NEVER REGAIN WHAT IT WAS SUBPAR INSTALLS. AND CUSTOMERS COMPLAINING.

[bluemoose]

I HAVE SEEN A LIST OF CUSTOMERS THAT HAVE BEEN WAITNG FOR MORE THAN
60 DAYS FOR THERE INSTALL. SOME ARE JUST OUT SIDE MY M/A AND I REFUSE TO GO OUT OF MY M/A FOR THE PAY STRUCTURE. CHANCE ARE ITS A TRYING TO FIND A TECH ISSUE ITS DTV FAULT YOU ARE NOT INSTALLED.

My recently installation took 8 weeks. When I originally called DTV, the earliest date was 5 weeks. I patiently waited the 5 weeks. When the installer showed up, he didn't have enough multiswitches and HD DVRS. (despite the fact that the printed work order in his hand clearly stated "two 6x8 multiswitches.... three DirecTV HD DVRs..." He left and the local office called me back to set up a new appointment.... 3 weeks later.... :(

[cantrellswire]

My recently installation took 8 weeks. When I originally called DTV, the earliest date was 5 weeks. I patiently waited the 5 weeks. When the installer showed up, he didn't have enough multiswitches and HD DVRS. (despite the fact that the printed work order in his hand clearly stated "two 6x8 multiswitches.... three DirecTV HD DVRs..." He left and the local office called me back to set up a new appointment.... 3 weeks later.... :(

Let me ask you this... Would you pay to have a real professional come out and install your system? IE Someone like me? <---------

PS I don't drive a mini van I'm in a white F250 Mine all mine. (Hate it too)

[Ext 721]

tip an installer? I have never heard of such a thing. Is it my problem the installer doesn't get paid much money? I didn't choose his career for him. If Direct TV is selling a service with free installation why would I pay for it because the guy doing the install doesn't make much money?

Why tip a waitress? or a bellhop? or a valet?

Because it is a classy thing to do, and makes for good service.

Sadly, as an installer, I can tell you the truly wealthy tip well for a job done well, the poor tip poorly, but quite often...

It's the wannabee-rich with the McMansion homes (of terrible, cheap construction, loaded with glitzy crap like plastic fake-brass light fixtures) who never tip, complain no matter what you do, and expect the world handed to them free.

The working stiffs appreciate the sweat and toil, the wealthy do it because they feel classy and have money to throw around. The trying-to-look-like-I've"arrived" bunch are too concerned with their material trappings to act well towards their fellow man.

[jdogg]

Why tip a waitress? or a bellhop? or a valet?

Because it is a classy thing to do, and makes for good service.

Sadly, as an installer, I can tell you the truly wealthy tip well for a job done well, the poor tip poorly, but quite often...

It's the wannabee-rich with the McMansion homes (of terrible, cheap construction, loaded with glitzy crap like plastic fake-brass light fixtures) who never tip, complain no matter what you do, and expect the world handed to them free.

The working stiffs appreciate the sweat and toil, the wealthy do it because they feel classy and have money to throw around. The trying-to-look-like-I've"arrived" bunch are too concerned with their material trappings to act well towards their fellow man.

very much so, i am happy if i get five dollars to buy lunch. If you act professional answer all there questions and hide the wires the best you can you are showing them that they are getting the best. the working stiffs respect what you do for them

they always tell us that at the warehouse the we make the most. 55 for installs 15 for an additional, service calls are 15, relocates are 20, upgrade ka is 20.

when i do ka upgrades dtv doesnt pay for the local upgrade they expect me to take the 18 inch and just turn it and re mount it, the assume you get los in the same spot where the 101 was, if you live in a two dis market you know what i am talking about

you make a extra if you are in a pov. WOW A GALLON OF GAS SURE I WILL DRIVE 80 MILES! i work mandatory six days a week Sunday off, i am force to work every fourth Sunday and they get to pick my day off for that week
also i get no holidays and no holiday pay

if you surly want the flat truth and wonder why installs are crap it is because they schedule jobs two close. a good rule here is a hour a box. so i could have three am's a 1 box, a upgrade and a four box... all to be done by noon or i get in trouble

i live in a two dish market 72.5 so it takes about 45 to set the dishes 20 to do the switch{for free} assuming that every wire is a home run about 12 minutes at each receiver force the down load then 6 minutes to auto dect the 72.5, explain the importance of a phone wire 20 minutes i get in trouble if i get a no responder. then i get on the phone and talk to some guy who says his name is brain when he is some guy who cant speak English
then 20 minutes to show the customer how to work it then back on the phone to close the job an easy 20 minutes
this is on a good install

let me explain the no win clause
it is whatever you do you are wrong, you walk a tight rope and if you slip on the left the customer is pissed to the right the contractor is mad and if you fall well you are on your own buddy, if i get to a job and it is a line of sight issue that it wont last very wrong i will get in trouble for not putting it in, keeping in mind it wont last very long. they don't care{the contractor} just put it in the more installs the better, but in a month when the customer calls a repeate service it is my fault that it inst working keeping in mind that i was forced to put it in i get yelled at and called names. nice how about that world class customer service? if it wont last long i wont do it i will tel the customer i am a very honest when it comes to that i would be pissed if that was done to me so i try to do to there house the same as if it was mine

our warehouse just went to repeat charge backs so if anything happens it is my falt, the customer changes the channel and don't remember how to work there inputs... my fault 75 dollars, a kid hits the dish my fault i should of known better to put it there even though it was the only place for LOS, my fault 75 dollars, storm hits, 75 dollars
the big supervisor gives me some crappy story on how he has stopped by a guys house for three years switching the inputs back for him

ok sure i work for free
how about this they force us to cancel all repeat service calls, this was befor the charge backs, if you closed one would get in trouble even if you have all service call in a day YOU HAVE TO CANCEL

now remember the tight rope i talked about if you piss off the supervisor you can expect all upgrade and service calls for a week. if a guy cant remember how to switch the tv back to channel three call in a service call well you get crappy work and charged back for it also, they black mail you with the route so even if the work is jacked up and you know it is you have to do it if you want to work tomorrow and make a little cash, now when that work fails they don't remember telling you to do that...75 dollars

they are always right we are always wrong no matter how right you are

so a crappy install just doesn't mean a bad worker, it very well could mean he wants to work, dtv needs to look at contractors and not the installers

i could go on more but it feels good to vent to people who understand

and they wonder why we voted in teamsters

[randalldavis]

I got my new Dish and HD installed yesterday. I did quite a bit or research prior to the installation and was ready.

My installer called and said what time he was coming, good thing too cause I had a short ladder and went up on the roof, Flat, live in AZ, and yes I'm afraid of heights, so you guessed it, I got stuck on the roof.

The installed was very professional and came up on the roof to talk abouit the installation. I told him upfront what I wanted and that I would give him a very good tip if he did an excellant job.

He took me to my word and did everything I ask, including running some extra cables, gave me some connectors for later use along with some cable. He walked me throught the setup, the DVR very informative...

I gave him $60.00, because I appreciate quality work and information sharing.
He gave me his personal number in case I needed more cables run, he works on the side and was aware of my fear of heights and well I guess he appreciates customers that tip.

VERY positive experience, and everything works very well.

PS I had at one time Direcway installed with a real sturdy base sealed into the roof. He had an adapter and used this mount because he said it was way sturdier than the one for the TV. Good suggestion.

He also dialed the satellites in to a 98 level and he did something I never expected, he tweaked the dish in all directions to ensure the signal was in the center. He said this would keep the dish in alignment when the wind blew. WOW what a guy:)

Very satisfied customer:)

Randall

[akhicks]

i have been an installer for about 5 years and have worked for ironwood (local dtv hsp) and starwest (local dish hsp) and for smaller install firms as well as local retailers all over the northwest and have found the only way to take care of my customers is to make them MY customers that means i do the sale, install and i also service there system and i have only one person that shares my opinion so we started our own business. now we are small and we dont only do our jobs we also work for the retailer we run our sales thru. the only way it seems you can make it in this industry is to do the sale, install, service. we leave our personal cell phone #'s for each and every one of our customers and we tell them if they or anybody they know needs any service work to give them our #'s and no its not so we can sell them a new system we will fix over the phone for free or roll for a $20 minimum thats our price we arent out to soak anybody we believe you should provide the service that you would like to recieve. i know from first hand knowledge that the hsp 's dont really care about there techs they can and will replace you without any rational reasoning i have seen it happen to me and to some friends and its true as long as they find people to train the cycle will continue. thanks for letting me rant. adam hicks dba cable creations

[Ext 721]

Why on earth would ANYONE do this job for this horrible pay?

I thought the way the installers made up for the crappy DTV payment was to charge huge amounts to the customer for extras, like nice wall plates, snaking the lines behind the wall, etc. And I thought installing the phone line was one of those extras. What happened to charging for those things?

I know I've seen threads where after 2-3 bad installs, most contractors had an expert that they would send out to make everything right, no matter how long it took. I can't imagine anyone that knows what they're doing staying in this job very long.

Wasn't DTV going to get rid of contractors for this (because of the wide range of crappy experiences many customers were having) and bring it all back in-house so they could have more control over quality?

Both of my DTV installs so far have been pretty painless. Threads like this make me dread the next one. I have to get a new dish installed :(

Usually, it's not worth the hassle to even attempt to charge...sometimes it is.

A lot of people refuse, a lot get indignant that their "free install" suddenly became a paid one...but oddly enough, most will refuse...and I was installing in a very rich state.

I'd always take the route of mentioning the cost, and what i was paid from it (usually 50-75%) some smart consumers would offer me cash in-between those figures. If it wasn't insurance-heavy work (likely to nip a water line or power line) I was in. (hee hee)

but the REAL reason? ovebooking. Any deviation from the plan would cause a late show (or no show) even though those weren't docked pay in those days, it was still a big black mark.

[bluemoose]

A lot of people refuse, a lot get indignant that their "free install" suddenly became a paid one...but oddly enough, most will refuse...and I was installing in a very rich state.


As my grandfather used to say... rich people don't become rich by allowing others to charge them for something that's supposed to be free! :) (maybe that's why I'm not rich yet.... :D )

I did pay my installer extra when he returned two days later. The extra job involved digging/burying the cables underground. The length was close to 150 feet and had to go under my concrete driveway, so he had to bring out a special digging maching that digs under the driveway. In addition, he planted a big 12-feet metal pole. He dug a 4-foot hole, poured concrete, and then inserted the pipe. Another three days later, he came back and secured the poled with 10-guage guy wires on 5 sides, each with long anchors drilled into the ground. After all that, he finally installed my 5LNB dish. The dish will probably even stand up to a tornado.

He charged me $200 for the whole job, but I think it was well worth it!

[kevinwmsn]

If they could fix the overbooking on installers causing the installations to be late, that would help a lot of the customer complaints. I have several 8am-12pm appointments that the installer didn't show up till about 6 pm and several no shows. I have called DirectTV and complained about missed and very late showups with no calls saying that they are running late. I am not a fan of Bruisters and Associates. Ideally, I would like if they would give a 2 hour window that they would show up. The worse thing is a lot of us take time off from work just to get an install scheduled and just wait till they show up.

[inflames72]

i recently took a job with an hsp, 2 weeks of in class training, 2 weeks of riding around with a trainer. 35 for 1 box, 1 dish. 12.50 for each additional reciever/dish. yesterday was my last day. the week before (my first full week by myself) i was lucky to make 150. 2 nights ago, i started a 4 box with hddvr at around 3, had all hooked up by 7, spent another hour in the freezing cold, my boots, socks, and pants soaking wet, trying to peak the dish. my super called me and told me to close the job and leave.

the next day (yesterday, my last day) i get to another 4 box with a 4 story house right in the direction of the sats, the customer looks at me and says, you have to put the dishes on THE PEAK of my apt complex, in the winter. i called my super and he came out and agreed. with NO harness or being teatherd, NOTHING. i calmly said im not doing it. it's not worth a whopping 85 for 6 hours worth of work, to put myself on top of that roof with no safety equipment. needless to say, they picked up the van this morning.

problem is, i actually enjoyed the work. i like doing that kind of stuff. but not for that kind of pay!!

[gothamcity]

My installer put my dish on a pole in concrete, about 50 feet from the house, trenched the cables. I made him run 2 cables to each tv even though I don't have DVR, just in case I ever get it. He wanted to use the existing cable tv lines, I told him no he had to run all new lines. It was raining at the time of the install when he put up the dish and did all the trenching. I paid him nothing. I was promised a free install and that is what I got!!!! :D He did show up late. I had a 8-12 install, and he showed up at about 3pm. I told him if he didn't do everything exactly as I wanted I would just cancel the entire install. I was not going to tip a guy for showing up late no matter how good a job he did. I took off work too. He cost me additional time.

[RobertE]

My installer put my dish on a pole in concrete, about 50 feet from the house, trenched the cables. I made him run 2 cables to each tv even though I don't have DVR, just in case I ever get it. He wanted to use the existing cable tv lines, I told him no he had to run all new lines. It was raining at the time of the install when he put up the dish and did all the trenching. I paid him nothing. I was promised a free install and that is what I got!!!! :D He did show up late. I had a 8-12 install, and he showed up at about 3pm. I told him if he didn't do everything exactly as I wanted I would just cancel the entire install. I was not going to tip a guy for showing up late no matter how good a job he did. I took off work too. He cost me additional time.

I would not have run a second line to each location just because you wanted them "just in case". I would have told you to pound sand and cancel. :mad:

[rdiedrich]

My installer put my dish on a pole in concrete, about 50 feet from the house, trenched the cables. I made him run 2 cables to each tv even though I don't have DVR, just in case I ever get it. He wanted to use the existing cable tv lines, I told him no he had to run all new lines. It was raining at the time of the install when he put up the dish and did all the trenching. I paid him nothing. I was promised a free install and that is what I got!!!! :D He did show up late. I had a 8-12 install, and he showed up at about 3pm. I told him if he didn't do everything exactly as I wanted I would just cancel the entire install. I was not going to tip a guy for showing up late no matter how good a job he did. I took off work too. He cost me additional time.

I have to Agree with Robert. Extra work is just that, EXTRA. No Doubt you cost others waiting for their install after yours additional time as well with your free extras. I would have told you to cancel as the extra work was not on my work order, and like you I don't being cost additional time.

Randy

[Ext 721]

If they could fix the overbooking on installers causing the installations to be late, that would help a lot of the customer complaints. I have several 8am-12pm appointments that the installer didn't show up till about 6 pm and several no shows. I have called DirectTV and complained about missed and very late showups with no calls saying that they are running late. I am not a fan of Bruisters and Associates. Ideally, I would like if they would give a 2 hour window that they would show up. The worse thing is a lot of us take time off from work just to get an install scheduled and just wait till they show up.

Unfortunately, they overbook at a rate that they calculate will not continuously extend the dates...that is, they could make every appontment on time, but as the year crept on dates would move from 1 week away, to 4...to 10, to 15.

At the same time, overbooking is the best way to squeeze the money out of the underpaid installers, some of whom, after working six 14-hour days, marvel at the fact that they made $1500 in one week, almost $1200 after gas and other expenses. :(

[Ext 721]

My installer put my dish on a pole in concrete, about 50 feet from the house, trenched the cables. I made him run 2 cables to each tv even though I don't have DVR, just in case I ever get it. He wanted to use the existing cable tv lines, I told him no he had to run all new lines. It was raining at the time of the install when he put up the dish and did all the trenching. I paid him nothing. I was promised a free install and that is what I got!!!! :D He did show up late. I had a 8-12 install, and he showed up at about 3pm. I told him if he didn't do everything exactly as I wanted I would just cancel the entire install. I was not going to tip a guy for showing up late no matter how good a job he did. I took off work too. He cost me additional time.

You sound proud of being a hard***.

I would have left if you'd demanded double cable.

[Ext 721]

If they could fix the overbooking on installers causing the installations to be late, that would help a lot of the customer complaints. I have several 8am-12pm appointments that the installer didn't show up till about 6 pm and several no shows. I have called DirectTV and complained about missed and very late showups with no calls saying that they are running late. I am not a fan of Bruisters and Associates. Ideally, I would like if they would give a 2 hour window that they would show up. The worse thing is a lot of us take time off from work just to get an install scheduled and just wait till they show up.

The solution to people being unable to show in a 4 hour window certainly isn't to give them a 2 hour window. When you make a task impossible, people stop trying.

[aim2pls]

Greetings,

I had to jump in on this discussion. I am a contractor under Mastec and I have to say, the compensation is more than horrible. The days of the "professional" installer
are well over. I installed for about 2 years some 4 years ago. I've just invested thousands to get back into the business and I am extremely disappointed. In the past three months, I have worked for two companies and I have only received some $1,200 from them collectively. If it weren't for another source of income I would have gone bankrupt by now. I am only continuing in the business for prospects.

In the two shops I worked in few spoke proper English, even fewer had a clue as to what they were doing. The overall attitude of the supervisors was, "Get it to work, we don't care." I spent most of my time cleaning up other peoples messes. It really is a shame, DirecTV, in my opinion has the best television service out there. How they've survived with the poor installation management and compensation thus far is beyond me.

I'm continuing to do a job well done, any training I receive is provided solely by myself. I can not deny the business prospects I receive through DirecTV, that is what keeps me going.

Anyway, I've gone off on a rant and I believe I've lost my point.

Indeed, tips are not necessary, but if I know I'm going to get a tip or custom work, you'd better know you're going to get an professional install. You get what you pay for, compensation from Mastec in DFW is $60 for the antenna and one receiver, $10 for each additional receiver no matter the amount of time or materials involved. Ka/Ku upgrades are worse, $35 for double the work. After cable, fittings, drop materials and fuel, we may as well be making minimum wage.

In conclusion, best of luck to you ordering DirecTV. Chances of you getting me are slim to none.

Blake Cantrell

"rumor" has it (in the DFW area) you arent the only on that has gotten screwed in the last few months ...

I for one don't do consumer D*/E* installs ... it just doesn't pay .... with Liab ins and workmens comp ins ... it's a lose lose situation .... commercial installs pay much better (like 5 times) ... get the roofer and electrician to do the conduit thru the roof and the cable run is a snap (they get paid by the job site GC .. usually more than you do btw) ... no "can you's".... you know exactly what you are walking into (usually) by the prints etc

[gothamcity]

I have to Agree with Robert. Extra work is just that, EXTRA. No Doubt you cost others waiting for their install after yours additional time as well with your free extras. I would have told you to cancel as the extra work was not on my work order, and like you I don't being cost additional time.

Randy

He said I was his last appointment of the day, so I don't think I caused waiting for others. by the way, if my appointment was for 8-12 how could I be his last appointment of the day? He showed up several hours late. This is extremely rude behavior. I don't feel bad in the least making him do extra work.

[joe diamond]

The solution to people being unable to show in a 4 hour window certainly isn't to give them a 2 hour window. When you make a task impossible, people stop trying.

721,

Needs to be bigger...IF YOU MAKE IT IMPOSSIBLE PEOPLE STOP TRYING...... Just left a company that was getting work from MASTEC (yeah, I know!). The plan was to use the installations as a source for home theatre sales through a company store. The phone time took more time than the jobs. And there was always the question,"Is this job closed?"

Joe

[AntAltMike]

My installer put my dish on a pole in concrete, about 50 feet from the house, trenched the cables. I made him run 2 cables to each tv even though I don't have DVR, just in case I ever get it. He wanted to use the existing cable tv lines, I told him no he had to run all new lines. It was raining at the time of the install when he put up the dish and did all the trenching. I paid him nothing. I was promised a free install and that is what I got!!!! :D He did show up late. I had a 8-12 install, and he showed up at about 3pm. I told him if he didn't do everything exactly as I wanted I would just cancel the entire install. I was not going to tip a guy for showing up late no matter how good a job he did. I took off work too. He cost me additional time.


Maybe he showed up late for your install because, at the job before yours, he had to put a dish on a pole in concrete, about 50 feet from the house, he trenched the cables there, he was pressured to run two cables to every TV even though his contract didn't require it and the customer didn't need them, and maybe he even did all that while it was raining.

[RobertE]

He said I was his last appointment of the day, so I don't think I caused waiting for others. by the way, if my appointment was for 8-12 how could I be his last appointment of the day? He showed up several hours late. This is extremely rude behavior. I don't feel bad in the least making him do extra work.


You were probably his last stop because:

1) He was so late for his 1200-1600 & 1600-2000 appointments, that they were rescheduled for another date & time.

2) He was tired of dealing with unreasonable customers, and was quitting after dealing with you.

Note the bold.

Pot meet kettle. Kettle meet pot. :mad: :nono2:

[somekevinguy]

I was supposed to have my D* upgraded to HD yesterday. I had an 8-12 appointment. The guy shows up at 11:45. I did the original install myself 10 years ago and where I mounted the dish a tree has now matured so the dish needed to be moved to the other side of the house and cables run. I have a single story ranch style house where the eves are about 8 feet off the ground. It was certainly a harder job than just replace the dish and plug in the new receiver but I didn't think it was a big deal but it was raining on and off in SoCal this weekend. It hadn't actually rained at my house in over 24 hours and it wasn't raining when he was there and the weather report was a 30% chance of scattered showers. The guy refused to do the install because he said he knew it was going to rain. I couldn't believe it. After I wait around for 4 hours on a Sunday, he shows up at the last minute just to tell me he won't do the job because he knows it is going to rain. He was trying to reschedule me and I told him to get the hell out of my yard. I work at an oil refinery and climb up 300 feet columns with little steel rung ladders in the pouring rain for 12 hours straight and he won't do my install 2 feet off the ground because he predicts that it is going to rain. Guess what it never rained. I was originally paying full price $299 for an HD DVR. I ended up getting the HD DVR for $99, another HD receiver for free and HD service for free for a year from D* for my troubles. Now I have to wait another week to have it installed again. I will be pissed if they send that same pu$$y to my house again.

[rguy210]

We just ordered Direct TV and the Free install. They sent a young installer out who looked at our wall, looked up and said they could not do a "2 story wall fish" as they called it. The installer then said he would cancel the service and left.

So, any two story house they have no way to run cable from the dish on the roof to the wall on the first floor? It is a interior wall and it may not be the easiest job they have to do but there is no way its the hardest. They just left us with nothing to go on really. No suggestions, no thoughts on where else the cable can be run, nothing at all. Do you think we just got a installer who did not want to work?

Direct TV now says they are sending out their lead tech to the house after we called and asked what to do next. We know the cable can be run and we had a local high end electronic store come out and give us a price. We would not mind to pay extra if the job is going to be hard. What would you tell the installer that comes out the second time?

[gothamcity]

We just ordered Direct TV and the Free install. They sent a young installer out who looked at our wall, looked up and said they could not do a "2 story wall fish" as they called it. The installer then said he would cancel the service and left.

So, any two story house they have no way to run cable from the dish on the roof to the wall on the first floor? It is a interior wall and it may not be the easiest job they have to do but there is no way its the hardest. They just left us with nothing to go on really. No suggestions, no thoughts on where else the cable can be run, nothing at all. Do you think we just got a installer who did not want to work?

Direct TV now says they are sending out their lead tech to the house after we called and asked what to do next. We know the cable can be run and we had a local high end electronic store come out and give us a price. We would not mind to pay extra if the job is going to be hard. What would you tell the installer that comes out the second time?

You got a lazy installer, that is pretty typical. If the next guy says it can't be done tell him you already know it can be done as you talked to the local electronics store, and if he is too lazy to do it, you will call Direct TV to discuss how lazy he is.:lol:

[gothamcity]

You were probably his last stop because:

1) He was so late for his 1200-1600 & 1600-2000 appointments, that they were rescheduled for another date & time.

2) He was tired of dealing with unreasonable customers, and was quitting after dealing with you.

Note the bold.

Pot meet kettle. Kettle meet pot. :mad: :nono2:

Or maybe I was his last stop because he started work late, sluffed off on his earlier jobs, got behind, took a long lunch, and only came to my appointment because I called and told them to cancel the job if he didn't show up by a certain time. Do you think my time is unimportant?????? I took off work. Got news for you Joe, I make alot more money than you. Time is money. If you can't have enough respect to show up on time, don't expect to get any respect from me.

[RobertE]

Or maybe I was his last stop because he started work late, sluffed off on his earlier jobs, got behind, took a long lunch, and only came to my appointment because I called and told them to cancel the job if he didn't show up by a certain time. Do you think my time is unimportant?????? I took off work. Got news for you Joe, I make alot more money than you. Time is money. If you can't have enough respect to show up on time, don't expect to get any respect from me.


Ah, so your income determines how important you are? :rolleyes:

Good luck with that.:nono2:

[gothamcity]

I was supposed to have my D* upgraded to HD yesterday. I had an 8-12 appointment. The guy shows up at 11:45. I did the original install myself 10 years ago and where I mounted the dish a tree has now matured so the dish needed to be moved to the other side of the house and cables run. I have a single story ranch style house where the eves are about 8 feet off the ground. It was certainly a harder job than just replace the dish and plug in the new receiver but I didn't think it was a big deal but it was raining on and off in SoCal this weekend. It hadn't actually rained at my house in over 24 hours and it wasn't raining when he was there and the weather report was a 30% chance of scattered showers. The guy refused to do the install because he said he knew it was going to rain. I couldn't believe it. After I wait around for 4 hours on a Sunday, he shows up at the last minute just to tell me he won't do the job because he knows it is going to rain. He was trying to reschedule me and I told him to get the hell out of my yard. I work at an oil refinery and climb up 300 feet columns with little steel rung ladders in the pouring rain for 12 hours straight and he won't do my install 2 feet off the ground because he predicts that it is going to rain. Guess what it never rained. I was originally paying full price $299 for an HD DVR. I ended up getting the HD DVR for $99, another HD receiver for free and HD service for free for a year from D* for my troubles. Now I have to wait another week to have it installed again. I will be pissed if they send that same pu$$y to my house again.

The are loads of storys like yours out there. Lazy incompetent installers who dont want to work for a living.

[gothamcity]

Ah, so your income determines how important you are? :rolleyes:

Good luck with that.:nono2:

Installers have no respect for their customers, and they expect to get some respect in return??? You are in for a big shock.

[RobertE]

Installers have no respect for their customers, and they expect to get some respect in return??? You are in for a big shock.

!rolling

You crack me up.

Your right though. I have ZERO respect for someone who has an elitest attitude because they have a higher income level. Which in their little fantasy world, makes everyone else below them. Giving them the right to make unreasonable demands and be condescending. :rolleyes:

[slimline]

Installers have no respect for their customers, and they expect to get some respect in return??? You are in for a big shock.

sorry bottom line if you wants xtras you will pay for xtras no matter how late iam
have a nice day

[Birdman79]

You got a lazy installer, that is pretty typical. If the next guy says it can't be done tell him you already know it can be done as you talked to the local electronics store, and if he is too lazy to do it, you will call Direct TV to discuss how lazy he is.:lol:

While you were at it did you ask him to water your plants ,mow your grass or maybe even do your laundry?

[Sirshagg]

Ah, so your income determines how important you are? :rolleyes:

Good luck with that.:nono2:

The does seem to be the way he came off there.

However I think one thing that gets overlooked is that many people DO take a day off from their work to be home for the installer to do their job. When the installer doesn't show up, or has some excuse why they can't do the job it means that the customer took a day off work for nothing. This isn't right.

[RobertE]

The does seem to be the way he came off there.

However I think one thing that gets overlooked is that many people DO take a day off from their work to be home for the installer to do their job. When the installer doesn't show up, or has some excuse why they can't do the job it means that the customer took a day off work for nothing. This isn't right.


Completely agree with you on the taking the time off work issue. However, there are mechanisms in place to compensate a customer for their time for late and/or missed installs. However, having a hollier-than-thou attitude and treating the installer like a second class citizen is not one of them.

[jdogg]

The does seem to be the way he came off there.

However I think one thing that gets overlooked is that many people DO take a day off from their work to be home for the installer to do their job. When the installer doesn't show up, or has some excuse why they can't do the job it means that the customer took a day off work for nothing. This isn't right.

that means nothing so it is the installer's fault that he had two am installs and a ka upgrade, his fault he couldn't do all that in four hours with drive and prep time. when we get to a job we have no idea what we are going to have to do sometimes it is easy and lot of the time you get people who wants something for nothing i don't give a crap if you are rich or poor on my work order it states a DTV basic install is to the roof or eve of home and wire through a outside wall or through the floor so if you want ANYTHING else you are paying for my time i have other customers to get to and if you want to cry that i don't want to do it because you don't want to pay you can call dtv as i am driving away

the one thing that burns my @ss the most no matter what it is, it is always the installers fault

you work for DTV you know exactly what that means

[Sirshagg]

Completely agree with you on the taking the time off work issue. However, there are mechanisms in place to compensate a customer for their time for late and/or missed installs. However, having a hollier-than-thou attitude and treating the installer like a second class citizen is not one of them.

On that point you are absolutely correct.

[bstntech]

I as an installer understand what most of you are saying but you also need to understand a few things. If you are set up for a A.M. install, 8-12 Your installer has a tech meeting at 8:00 am at his warehouse, 30 to 40 minutes for the meeting, 2 hr + drive back to your house, a 2 reciever standard install is rated at a 2 hr and 20 Min job. if all goes right that is fine but then after that the tech has another AM install and that job is 30 minutes away.

By My clock the first install starts no earlier then 10:40 and finishes at no earlier then 1:00 so the second AM install starts no earlier then 1:30 PM.

So please do not get pi$$y with the installer he is only doing what the routing system is telling him to do.


Also the contract states that a basic install includes:

DIRECTV Basic Install Includes:
1. Dish mounted to wall or eaves of home and grounded.
2. Cable run to DIRECTv reciever through floor or outside wall
(if TV next to outside wall), silicone around entry point of cable.
3. Phone Lines will be installed to each IRD free of charge.


So if you want a wall fish done that is extra. period

so if you want a wall fish done have it done prior to the installer arriving have th cable run to a Home Run point where all cables come together.

Be nice to the installer he may go above and beyond what is included in a BASIC install, and remember that him being late is not always his fault.

[cantrellswire]

We just ordered Direct TV and the Free install. They sent a young installer out who looked at our wall, looked up and said they could not do a "2 story wall fish" as they called it. The installer then said he would cancel the service and left.

So, any two story house they have no way to run cable from the dish on the roof to the wall on the first floor? It is a interior wall and it may not be the easiest job they have to do but there is no way its the hardest. They just left us with nothing to go on really. No suggestions, no thoughts on where else the cable can be run, nothing at all. Do you think we just got a installer who did not want to work?

Direct TV now says they are sending out their lead tech to the house after we called and asked what to do next. We know the cable can be run and we had a local high end electronic store come out and give us a price. We would not mind to pay extra if the job is going to be hard. What would you tell the installer that comes out the second time?

He probably wasn't equipped for the job. Two story wall fishes can be intimidating and with D*s pay often times not worth it. I see you're in Texas, shall I come out and do your install for you?

[gfezz]

I had an install scheduled this morning for upgrade to HD-DVR including new dish.

( ordered nearly a month ago though )...

Called the wife at noon and the friendly female installer was about done outside.

Looked everything over when i returned home and was pleased... whew !!

I'm going to make a call to the local company and tell them thanks......

[Umbrous]

I as an installer understand what most of you are saying but you also need to understand a few things. If you are set up for a A.M. install, 8-12 Your installer has a tech meeting at 8:00 am at his warehouse, 30 to 40 minutes for the meeting, 2 hr + drive back to your house, a 2 reciever standard install is rated at a 2 hr and 20 Min job. if all goes right that is fine but then after that the tech has another AM install and that job is 30 minutes away.

By My clock the first install starts no earlier then 10:40 and finishes at no earlier then 1:00 so the second AM install starts no earlier then 1:30 PM.

So please do not get pi$$y with the installer he is only doing what the routing system is telling him to do.


Also the contract states that a basic install includes:

DIRECTV Basic Install Includes:
1. Dish mounted to wall or eaves of home and grounded.
2. Cable run to DIRECTv reciever through floor or outside wall
(if TV next to outside wall), silicone around entry point of cable.
3. Phone Lines will be installed to each IRD free of charge.


So if you want a wall fish done that is extra. period

so if you want a wall fish done have it done prior to the installer arriving have th cable run to a Home Run point where all cables come together.

Be nice to the installer he may go above and beyond what is included in a BASIC install, and remember that him being late is not always his fault.


Problem with the whole install process is that Directv doesn't tell you what your "Free" install gets you....a free turd filled installation. I've had installers want to put up a 2nd dish to avoid a long run, punch holes in walls in like 4 different locations, and pretty much do anything to avoid an attic or crawlspace. It's insane, basically if you want the most unprofessional and illogical install, let directv do your install for free.

Like I said I don't blame the installers (much) but I blame Directv for not being upfront with someone and giving them the worst install ever, only if you wish to start shelling out cash do you get wires fished thru walls and such at 75 bucks a pop....which is an insane amount per wire...that's going to take them what like what? an extra 15 minutes?...sorry but installers aren't doctors and their company shouldn't be getting paid like they are replacing hips.

[jdogg]

Problem with the whole install process is that Directv doesn't tell you what your "Free" install gets you....a free turd filled installation. I've had installers want to put up a 2nd dish to avoid a long run, punch holes in walls in like 4 different locations, and pretty much do anything to avoid an attic or crawlspace. It's insane, basically if you want the most unprofessional and illogical install, let directv do your install for free.

Like I said I don't blame the installers (much) but I blame Directv for not being upfront with someone and giving them the worst install ever, only if you wish to start shelling out cash do you get wires fished thru walls and such at 75 bucks a pop....which is an insane amount per wire...that's going to take them what like what? an extra 15 minutes?...sorry but installers aren't doctors and their company shouldn't be getting paid like they are replacing hips.


99% of my jobs i hear "they never told me that" I live in a two dish market and most new customers get very upset that DTV didn't tell them about the local dish. In fact lately they have been telling them that it would take 10 minutes, no joke! when they ask how long it is going to take and i tell them at least four hours they crap their pants.

[ulbonado]

DIRECTV Basic Install Includes:
1. Dish mounted to wall or eaves of home and grounded.
2. Cable run to DIRECTv reciever through floor or outside wall
(if TV next to outside wall), silicone around entry point of cable.
3. Phone Lines will be installed to each IRD free of charge.


So if you want a wall fish done that is extra. period


Quoting directly from DirecTV's website: "FREE Professional Installation for up to four rooms". How can you install to four rooms without going through more than one wall? If their written instructions to the installer really contradict this, I'd say a customer has grounds for complaint (to DirecTV mind you, not to the installer).

I'm about to be a first-time DTVer (install scheduled for 1/15) and it's a two-story house where the dish is likely going to have to go on the roof due to trees, which will mean wires through the attic and down through walls to reach my two rooms, one of which is on the ground floor. Guess I'll see what happens...

[BattleZone]

We just ordered Direct TV and the Free install. They sent a young installer out who looked at our wall, looked up and said they could not do a "2 story wall fish" as they called it. The installer then said he would cancel the service and left.

So, any two story house they have no way to run cable from the dish on the roof to the wall on the first floor? It is a interior wall and it may not be the easiest job they have to do but there is no way its the hardest. They just left us with nothing to go on really. No suggestions, no thoughts on where else the cable can be run, nothing at all. Do you think we just got a installer who did not want to work?

Direct TV now says they are sending out their lead tech to the house after we called and asked what to do next. We know the cable can be run and we had a local high end electronic store come out and give us a price. We would not mind to pay extra if the job is going to be hard. What would you tell the installer that comes out the second time?

The installer should have given you other suggestions. Having said that, YOU need to understand that there is NO WAY DirecTV pays anyone enough money to do a single-story interior wall wall-fish, much less a 2-story wall-fish. I own a company that does residential and commercial installs. I've done 2-story wall-fishes before that have taken 2 guys 3 hours to do (that's 6 man-hours of labor). And that did NOT include the dry-wall patching, texture-matching, and repainting. All told, that customer paid my company $1200, and was THRILLED because he got his cable exactly where he wanted it after several people told him it couldn't be done.

Now, if you expect any underpaid in-house tech or subcontractor to do this as a free install, you're dreaming. Most won't even do it for a fee, because they simply don't have the necessary tools, nor will most customers accept that there will have to be holes cut into the walls to get the job done (requiring patching and painting). Even if they were to charge you, it would put them HOURS behind their schedule, screwing over many other customers and getting them in trouble with their boss.

DirecTV pays for a free STANDARD installation. That STANDARD installation has limits, and anything beyond those limits is CUSTOM.

Now, again, as a residential installer, I would have explained this to you and looked for other options to solve your problem. Your installer *should* have done this; he has no excuse for not doing so. But if you didn't like the options I presented to you, I'd have left and canceled the job too. Under the system that is in place (and DishNetwork isn't substantially different), an installer has little choice.

Some people are SHOCKED that a *free* install has limits. Most installers not only have to do the work (often unsafe work that they have no safety equipment or safety training for, and certainly no health or injury insurance for), but they also have to pay for all of the cable and supplies they use. On average, a DirecTV installer uses $20 or more in supplies on a simple job. An HD job with several DVRs can easily run $60-70 if lots of dual cable is run. When that job pays the tech $110, why would he be willing to do anything extra? Heck, it should be no surprise why he'd take every shortcut available.

The satellite companies are rapidly reaching the point where they won't be able to sustain installers. The big contractors all have MAJOR labor problems, because no one with half a brain will stay for very long. Those "FREE" installations are costing them a lot of business, and racheting up what the installers are expected to do for free, while the installers see materials prices climb and their pay reduced is not a winning strategy.

People complain about bad service, but they refuse to pay for good service and wonder why what they get is so bad.

My own customers constantly call me to do more work for them, because my company does great work. The difference is that I charge fairly for the work I do, and the customers who want quality work are happy to pay to have quality work done.

[BattleZone]

I'm about to be a first-time DTVer (install scheduled for 1/15) and it's a two-story house where the dish is likely going to have to go on the roof due to trees, which will mean wires through the attic and down through walls to reach my two rooms, one of which is on the ground floor. Guess I'll see what happens...

A "Free Standard Installation" means the cables will be run down the walls on the outside of the house and drilled in through the walls behind the TV. It certainly doesn't include wall fishes, especially not two-story wall-fishes, and most definitely not on outside walls, where you have no access from above and which contain insulation.

If it was a single-story house, you could get cabling run through your attic and through a hole in the corner of the ceiling into the room for free, as an option, provided the attic provides reasonable access. If the attic is tiny or filled with your belongings, it's going to be a no-go.

[slimline]

The installer should have given you other suggestions. Having said that, YOU need to understand that there is NO WAY DirecTV pays anyone enough money to do a single-story interior wall wall-fish, much less a 2-story wall-fish. I own a company that does residential and commercial installs. I've done 2-story wall-fishes before that have taken 2 guys 3 hours to do (that's 6 man-hours of labor). And that did NOT include the dry-wall patching, texture-matching, and repainting. All told, that customer paid my company $1200, and was THRILLED because he got his cable exactly where he wanted it after several people told him it couldn't be done.

Now, if you expect any underpaid in-house tech or subcontractor to do this as a free install, you're dreaming. Most won't even do it for a fee, because they simply don't have the necessary tools, nor will most customers accept that there will have to be holes cut into the walls to get the job done (requiring patching and painting). Even if they were to charge you, it would put them HOURS behind their schedule, screwing over many other customers and getting them in trouble with their boss.

DirecTV pays for a free STANDARD installation. That STANDARD installation has limits, and anything beyond those limits is CUSTOM.

Now, again, as a residential installer, I would have explained this to you and looked for other options to solve your problem. Your installer *should* have done this; he has no excuse for not doing so. But if you didn't like the options I presented to you, I'd have left and canceled the job too. Under the system that is in place (and DishNetwork isn't substantially different), an installer has little choice.

Some people are SHOCKED that a *free* install has limits. Most installers not only have to do the work (often unsafe work that they have no safety equipment or safety training for, and certainly no health or injury insurance for), but they also have to pay for all of the cable and supplies they use. On average, a DirecTV installer uses $20 or more in supplies on a simple job. An HD job with several DVRs can easily run $60-70 if lots of dual cable is run. When that job pays the tech $110, why would he be willing to do anything extra? Heck, it should be no surprise why he'd take every shortcut available.

The satellite companies are rapidly reaching the point where they won't be able to sustain installers. The big contractors all have MAJOR labor problems, because no one with half a brain will stay for very long. Those "FREE" installations are costing them a lot of business, and racheting up what the installers are expected to do for free, while the installers see materials prices climb and their pay reduced is not a winning strategy.

People complain about bad service, but they refuse to pay for good service and wonder why what they get is so bad.

My own customers constantly call me to do more work for them, because my company does great work. The difference is that I charge fairly for the work I do, and the customers who want quality work are happy to pay to have quality work done.

and thats the point of the day dtv and dish there aproach to the free install
progam is most customers in one way or the other is gonna want custom work done thats how we make money ...


I DO HOUSE WRAPS ALL THE TIME FOR PEOPLE THAT DO NOT WANT TO PAY FOR

CUSTOM WORK (WALL FISH) CUSTOM BASEMENT RUNS, POLE MOUNT, AND SO ON

AND I HAVE CUSTOMERS WHO DONT BATT AN EYE ABOUT A 375.00 CUSTOM CHARGE.

YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR..... FREE = BASIC

[slimline]

Quoting directly from DirecTV's website: "FREE Professional Installation for up to four rooms". How can you install to four rooms without going through more than one wall? If their written instructions to the installer really contradict this, I'd say a customer has grounds for complaint (to DirecTV mind you, not to the installer).

I'm about to be a first-time DTVer (install scheduled for 1/15) and it's a two-story house where the dish is likely going to have to go on the roof due to trees, which will mean wires through the attic and down through walls to reach my two rooms, one of which is on the ground floor. Guess I'll see what happens...

I HATE TO BEAT THIS SUBJECT TO DEATH HOWEVER

I DO 4 /ROOMERS WITH 1 EXT TO INT. WALL PENS X 4 ALL DAY LONG

4 ROOMS = 4 HOLES DRILLED TO THE IRD...

[rguy210]

The installer should have given you other suggestions. Having said that, YOU need to understand that there is NO WAY DirecTV pays anyone enough money to do a single-story interior wall wall-fish, much less a 2-story wall-fish. I own a company that does residential and commercial installs. I've done 2-story wall-fishes before that have taken 2 guys 3 hours to do (that's 6 man-hours of labor). And that did NOT include the dry-wall patching, texture-matching, and repainting. All told, that customer paid my company $1200, and was THRILLED because he got his cable exactly where he wanted it after several people told him it couldn't be done.

Now, if you expect any underpaid in-house tech or subcontractor to do this as a free install, you're dreaming. Most won't even do it for a fee, because they simply don't have the necessary tools, nor will most customers accept that there will have to be holes cut into the walls to get the job done (requiring patching and painting). Even if they were to charge you, it would put them HOURS behind their schedule, screwing over many other customers and getting them in trouble with their boss.

DirecTV pays for a free STANDARD installation. That STANDARD installation has limits, and anything beyond those limits is CUSTOM.

Now, again, as a residential installer, I would have explained this to you and looked for other options to solve your problem. Your installer *should* have done this; he has no excuse for not doing so. But if you didn't like the options I presented to you, I'd have left and canceled the job too. Under the system that is in place (and DishNetwork isn't substantially different), an installer has little choice.

Some people are SHOCKED that a *free* install has limits. Most installers not only have to do the work (often unsafe work that they have no safety equipment or safety training for, and certainly no health or injury insurance for), but they also have to pay for all of the cable and supplies they use. On average, a DirecTV installer uses $20 or more in supplies on a simple job. An HD job with several DVRs can easily run $60-70 if lots of dual cable is run. When that job pays the tech $110, why would he be willing to do anything extra? Heck, it should be no surprise why he'd take every shortcut available.

The satellite companies are rapidly reaching the point where they won't be able to sustain installers. The big contractors all have MAJOR labor problems, because no one with half a brain will stay for very long. Those "FREE" installations are costing them a lot of business, and racheting up what the installers are expected to do for free, while the installers see materials prices climb and their pay reduced is not a winning strategy.

People complain about bad service, but they refuse to pay for good service and wonder why what they get is so bad.

My own customers constantly call me to do more work for them, because my company does great work. The difference is that I charge fairly for the work I do, and the customers who want quality work are happy to pay to have quality work done.

Thanks for all the information and help. I really just had no clue what DTV installs were all about or how they were done. We will see what the other installer says and if they can offer to do the work for a fee. The first installer did says he did not know how to do a wall fish, this was after we called DTV and they called the local Platinum Communications to see what the problem was, the installer did not say this when they were at the house, and no other info was given to us.

[ulbonado]

I HATE TO BEAT THIS SUBJECT TO DEATH HOWEVER

I DO 4 /ROOMERS WITH 1 EXT TO INT. WALL PENS X 4 ALL DAY LONG

4 ROOMS = 4 HOLES DRILLED TO THE IRD...

Hmm, I'm not picking on you, I've read this thread and understand about DirecTV's pay structure, but that's frankly pretty shabby. Whenever we've called Time Warner to add a cable tap in a new room, they've come out and neatly fished the wire through the wall. When we added Road Runner internet, they even fished through the wall up to a room on the second floor. It's never taken them all that long, and while I don't remember exactly what the service call cost us, it was certainly well under $100 (I'm thinking $60 maybe, but I don't remember for sure).

It sounds like DirecTV needs to rethink how they do business. I'm interested in their HD offerings, but not so interested that I'm going to settle for wires dangling down the outside of my house or paying multi-hundreds of dollars for installation. Cable will catch up on the HD thing before too terribly long.

[RegGeek]

After keeping up with this and many other threads about what is or is not a reasonable installation expectation, I can't help but wonder if DirecTV's insistance on the use of the word "professional" to describe the install isn't a big contributor to the problem.

If the install was labled, "Free Standard Installation" or "Free Basic Installation" as opposed to "Free Professional Installation" it might help. I know that I was surprised when during an install the tech wanted to drill up from the basement right through the brand new family room carpet I'd just had laid days earlier. Thankfully I stopped him in time and after he explained the wall fish would cost extra I paid it without complaint.

Guess what I'm saying is that the words Professional Installation carry a great deal of meaning and to most of the newbies out there it implies much more than is actually being promised.

This is not intended to slam installers in any way or attack their personal level of professionalism, but it would be far better in my opinion if DirecTv would change their pitch to be, "Free basic installation by a professional." People might just stop and ask, "what do you mean by 'basic'?"

Unfortunately, I think that DirecTV at best doesn't mind that people are unclear on what is free and at worst they like it that way.

[carl6]

"Free basic installation" might be a good term to use. More important is that both the installer and the customer spend five minutes to disucss the installation before work is started. Walk through everything, dish location, wire routing, etc. That should be mandatory for every installer, but the customer shares some of the responsibility. I discuss everything with any person getting ready to work on my property before letting them start.

Carl

[Sirshagg]

The installer should have given you other suggestions. Having said that, YOU need to understand that there is NO WAY DirecTV pays anyone enough money to do a single-story interior wall wall-fish, much less a 2-story wall-fish. I own a company that does residential and commercial installs. I've done 2-story wall-fishes before that have taken 2 guys 3 hours to do (that's 6 man-hours of labor). And that did NOT include the dry-wall patching, texture-matching, and repainting. All told, that customer paid my company $1200, and was THRILLED because he got his cable exactly where he wanted it after several people told him it couldn't be done.

Now, if you expect any underpaid in-house tech or subcontractor to do this as a free install, you're dreaming. Most won't even do it for a fee, because they simply don't have the necessary tools, nor will most customers accept that there will have to be holes cut into the walls to get the job done (requiring patching and painting). Even if they were to charge you, it would put them HOURS behind their schedule, screwing over many other customers and getting them in trouble with their boss.

DirecTV pays for a free STANDARD installation. That STANDARD installation has limits, and anything beyond those limits is CUSTOM.

Now, again, as a residential installer, I would have explained this to you and looked for other options to solve your problem. Your installer *should* have done this; he has no excuse for not doing so. But if you didn't like the options I presented to you, I'd have left and canceled the job too. Under the system that is in place (and DishNetwork isn't substantially different), an installer has little choice.

Some people are SHOCKED that a *free* install has limits. Most installers not only have to do the work (often unsafe work that they have no safety equipment or safety training for, and certainly no health or injury insurance for), but they also have to pay for all of the cable and supplies they use. On average, a DirecTV installer uses $20 or more in supplies on a simple job. An HD job with several DVRs can easily run $60-70 if lots of dual cable is run. When that job pays the tech $110, why would he be willing to do anything extra? Heck, it should be no surprise why he'd take every shortcut available.

The satellite companies are rapidly reaching the point where they won't be able to sustain installers. The big contractors all have MAJOR labor problems, because no one with half a brain will stay for very long. Those "FREE" installations are costing them a lot of business, and racheting up what the installers are expected to do for free, while the installers see materials prices climb and their pay reduced is not a winning strategy.

People complain about bad service, but they refuse to pay for good service and wonder why what they get is so bad.

My own customers constantly call me to do more work for them, because my company does great work. The difference is that I charge fairly for the work I do, and the customers who want quality work are happy to pay to have quality work done.

I suspect the root of many problems is what DirecTv CSR's promise or lead people to belive the free install will include. I strongly doubt most people know that they will have cables run down the outside of the house. I'm not saying that the installers should do more than they are contracted for. If they do extra work they should be paid for it. It's crazy for DirecTv to have a contract with the installers to do "A" and then tell or lead the customer to believe the installer will do "B". Of course this will lead to problems.

[BattleZone]

When I was doing residential DirecTV installs, I averaged about 30 minutes per job correcting "misunderstandings" about that customer's order, the install, and various other things that their salesperson had told them to get the sale. This is above and beyond the basic description of the installation plan or how to use the equipment.

Retailers and CSRs lie to customers CONSTANTLY, and the fall-out is born almost entirely by the installer, who has to talk down every customer from their out-of-proportion expectations of what they're going to get "for free."

Again, given the pay that the vast majority of installers are getting, and the fact that most have to pay for all of their supplies, not to mention gas, insurance, tools, etc., what IS required "for free" is too much in many instances.

Example: 5 years ago, a DirecTV subcontractor on average was paid about $100 to install a basic (1 LNB) 18" dish and run a line to 1 receiver. Additional receivers paid an extra $35 or so. A second line to a DVR was paid out like an extra receiver. Copper-clad steel RG6 was allowed, and gas cost $1.50/gallon at most. He could charge to run phone lines.

Today, the same guy has to install a big, 30 pound Ka/Ku dish with support arms, run 4 lines from the dish to a multiswitch, and run dual lines to virtually every receiver. He must use solid copper cable (50% higher price than copper-clad). No extra pay for the 2nd DVR lines, which double his cost and ensures that existing built-in cable can't be used. No extra pay for the much-more-difficult to mount dish, or for installing the multiswitch. Gas is $3+/gallon, and all supplies cost more. Today, this guy gets paid $60-70 on average for the dish and first receiver, and $15-20 for each additional receiver. He must run phone lines for free, and he gets charged back if not enough receivers "phone home", no matter that his customers no longer have a land line at home and use only cell phones. Receivers are much more complicated, requiring more time spent explaining things to the customer at each job. They also take longer to set up and activate.

5 years ago, the average guy did 4 installs a (8-10 hour) day, with enough time and pay to do quality work, and he made good money. A *good* installer could do 5-6 a day, especially with a better investment in tools.

Today, the average guy can do, at best, 2-3 installs per day, and typically works 12 hours to do so. His cost to do the job is much higher for supplies, and his pay is less. The systems are much more complicated, require more time and more (and more difficult) problems to solve. He's never been so poorly trained, and probably isn't even aware of many tools that could help him do his job more easily. Not that he can afford to buy them...


And, so, this is why there's such a big disconnect between "FREE PROFESSIONAL INSTALLATION" and what your installer is prepared/able to do. Is it any surprise that installers are so quick to walk away from a difficult or expensive (in time and supply costs) job? It's very, very easy to LOSE money doing an install. Most good installers either learn to charge for their extras (which is also harder due to job scheduling that doesn't leave time to do the work), or they realize that they are often paying for the privilage of doing someone's install, and they quit. The ones that stick around are the hacks who have never grounded a dish, never ran a phone line, never used silicone or bishop tape to seal anything, and will be quick to drill through your new floor.

You get what you pay for, and with a "free" install, you are lucky to get what you get. One of the reasons most people have to wait several weeks for their installation is because most HSPs can't keep techs. In-house tech churn rate is horrible, and subcontractor churn isn't that much better.

My company now does commercial installs and some residential sales, but no HSP work. When we sell a customer, we tell them the whole truth from the beginning, so they know exactly what to expect. Most of our jobs require at least some custom work, but our customers are very satisfied with the results and have no trouble paying extra to get a clean, reliable install.

[BK EH]

I've been really lucky with Mastec in Dallas. Over 3 homes and 6 upgrades/installs since 1999, I have had only one bad or inexperienced crew. They showed up and then left with an excuse about their ladder not being high enough.

All the others were like CantrellsWire seems here -- smart and concientious. One even gave me his home number in case something went amiss at meyprevious home (leaf-out was coming in Spring in a few weeks) and he would come and tweak the dish at no charge.

It's amazing that Mastec keeps them around if they are treated like that.

[lmunster]

That's also why I don't tip when I go to restaurants... :D It ain't my problem when the restaurant owners don't pay the waiters enouogh money.... :D

I guess you never go to the same restaurant twice.

[bhanks]

I've been really lucky with Mastec in Dallas. Over 3 homes and 6 upgrades/installs since 1999, I have had only one bad or inexperienced crew. They showed up and then left with an excuse about their ladder not being high enough.

All the others were like CantrellsWire seems here -- smart and concientious. One even gave me his home number in case something went amiss at meyprevious home (leaf-out was coming in Spring in a few weeks) and he would come and tweak the dish at no charge.

It's amazing that Mastec keeps them around if they are treated like that.

BK, is the Mastec you used the one in Carrollton? They are the ones assigned
to do my HD installation.

[rotomike]

Ive been installing for 8 years and they pay the same or more now days. Like i mentioned before, Its the companies that have the contracts for installing that are paying the guys crap for money so they can pocket a bunch. DTV kicks back $100 for one room and $25 per additional box and $25 or more for hi-def and $25 more for a dvr for the extra cable and a 4 room HD job would pay $200 at least and can be done in 8 hours easily and done excellant so the installer can make $25 an hour less cost. Now the cost of solid copper cable is 6 cents per foot and a house would use lets say 200 feet for a 4 room job well thats only $12 and i would say another $13 to cover f-connectors and grounding block etc.. so $25 for supplies your still making good money. i figured 8 hours but it would normally be no more then 6 to do it right and i did one the other day on brand new house in 4 hours for a 4 room so it payed $35 an hour and i would say average would be $25 to $30 per hour. DTV kicks back what i would say is enough money but the problem is the companies that get the contracts for installing screw the installers.

Mike

[BattleZone]

The HSPs are the problem, correct. HSPs are just large subcontracting companies, but if you are an installer or subcontractor, the only way you can get work (other than being a retailer or working for one) is to work for an HSP. And, yes, the HSPs take more than half the money for doing relatively little, and passes the rest on to their subcontractors, who themselves have to take a percentage to pay for their costs (and some profit), which leaves not very much for the individual installers.

The real break-down is between the HSPs and those who work directly for them. In-house techs work for the HSPs, and make very little money, but at least are provided vehicles and tools, so their entry into the field is subsidized somewhat. Subcontractors, though, are caught in a big tug-of-war. The HSPs need them, because they can't hire (or keep) enough In-House techs to get their jobs done. But at the same time, they are afraid of their subs becoming large and successful enough to challenge them, so they routinely sabotage their subs. They do this by purposely giving their subs bad routes, extreme favoritism to some subs, bogus, undocumented back charges, and by simply not paying for some work.

This accomplishes several things: it weakens the subs so that they can never get ahead, it keeps all the subs in a war with each other, and it provides a source of trained techs that they can steal whenever they bankrupt one of their subs. Many of these practices are outright illegal, and most HSPs have settled many lawsuits to keep from going to court, where they would lose badly.

The losers? Those would be the subs, the installers that work for them, and certainly, the customers. But there are enough people who need to work that the HSPs always find a new sub, even though work quality continues to fall off.

IMO, DirecTV would be able to stomp out Dish and Comcast if they abolished the HSP program and managed their installer force directly. By keeping such a hands-off policy, they've let the installation business destroy itself.

[rotomike]

The HSPs are the problem, correct. HSPs are just large subcontracting companies, but if you are an installer or subcontractor, the only way you can get work (other than being a retailer or working for one) is to work for an HSP. And, yes, the HSPs take more than half the money for doing relatively little, and passes the rest on to their subcontractors, who themselves have to take a percentage to pay for their costs (and some profit), which leaves not very much for the individual installers.

The real break-down is between the HSPs and those who work directly for them. In-house techs work for the HSPs, and make very little money, but at least are provided vehicles and tools, so their entry into the field is subsidized somewhat. Subcontractors, though, are caught in a big tug-of-war. The HSPs need them, because they can't hire (or keep) enough In-House techs to get their jobs done. But at the same time, they are afraid of their subs becoming large and successful enough to challenge them, so they routinely sabotage their subs. They do this by purposely giving their subs bad routes, extreme favoritism to some subs, bogus, undocumented back charges, and by simply not paying for some work.

This accomplishes several things: it weakens the subs so that they can never get ahead, it keeps all the subs in a war with each other, and it provides a source of trained techs that they can steal whenever they bankrupt one of their subs. Many of these practices are outright illegal, and most HSPs have settled many lawsuits to keep from going to court, where they would lose badly.

The losers? Those would be the subs, the installers that work for them, and certainly, the customers. But there are enough people who need to work that the HSPs always find a new sub, even though work quality continues to fall off.

IMO, DirecTV would be able to stomp out Dish and Comcast if they abolished the HSP program and managed their installer force directly. By keeping such a hands-off policy, they've let the installation business destroy itself.

I totally agree!

mike

[BK EH]

BK, is the Mastec you used the one in Carrollton? They are the ones assigned
to do my HD installation.
Yup -- that's where their local office is. They are a huge corporation.

I agree on the comments upthread on the HSPs... and D* suffering the consequences. It seems really weird to me that a major company like D* would put up with the bad rap they get from all the bad HSP subs out there. I know of no other business who's first-line, customer-facing support is totally beyond their control like these guys are.

I'm guessing that the decrease in the pay an installer gets from an HSP is a direct result of competitive contract bidding with HSPs to D*. Outsourcing most always goes to the lowest bidder and then the bidder deals with the lower pay going forward. It's a sad situation all around.

[njblackberry]

Well, the subcontracted installer never showed up today, even after we got the confirming call on Wednesday. I do not blame the installer. I blame DTV and the subcontracting firm.

It would have been nice if we got a call saying "not today" but that's asking for too much. Not a complicated job - no wiring - replace an old oval dish with a new HD dish.

I did take the day off to wait for the installer (silly me) and I am very angry at DTV. Been on the phone with them for 20 minutes now trying to find out what happened.

[slimline]

Hmm, I'm not picking on you, I've read this thread and understand about DirecTV's pay structure, but that's frankly pretty shabby. Whenever we've called Time Warner to add a cable tap in a new room, they've come out and neatly fished the wire through the wall. When we added Road Runner internet, they even fished through the wall up to a room on the second floor. It's never taken them all that long, and while I don't remember exactly what the service call cost us, it was certainly well under $100 (I'm thinking $60 maybe, but I don't remember for sure).

It sounds like DirecTV needs to rethink how they do business. I'm interested in their HD offerings, but not so interested that I'm going to settle for wires dangling down the outside of my house or paying multi-hundreds of dollars for installation. Cable will catch up on the HD thing before too terribly long.

$60 x 4 = $240 for your 4 room systems (wall fish)

i think dtv should include this in a basic install. then they would have a reason to raise your bill %20

[slimline]

The HSPs are the problem, correct. HSPs are just large subcontracting companies, but if you are an installer or subcontractor, the only way you can get work (other than being a retailer or working for one) is to work for an HSP. And, yes, the HSPs take more than half the money for doing relatively little, and passes the rest on to their subcontractors, who themselves have to take a percentage to pay for their costs (and some profit), which leaves not very much for the individual installers.

The real break-down is between the HSPs and those who work directly for them. In-house techs work for the HSPs, and make very little money, but at least are provided vehicles and tools, so their entry into the field is subsidized somewhat. Subcontractors, though, are caught in a big tug-of-war. The HSPs need them, because they can't hire (or keep) enough In-House techs to get their jobs done. But at the same time, they are afraid of their subs becoming large and successful enough to challenge them, so they routinely sabotage their subs. They do this by purposely giving their subs bad routes, extreme favoritism to some subs, bogus, undocumented back charges, and by simply not paying for some work.

This accomplishes several things: it weakens the subs so that they can never get ahead, it keeps all the subs in a war with each other, and it provides a source of trained techs that they can steal whenever they bankrupt one of their subs. Many of these practices are outright illegal, and most HSPs have settled many lawsuits to keep from going to court, where they would lose badly.

The losers? Those would be the subs, the installers that work for them, and certainly, the customers. But there are enough people who need to work that the HSPs always find a new sub, even though work quality continues to fall off.

IMO, DirecTV would be able to stomp out Dish and Comcast if they abolished the HSP program and managed their installer force directly. By keeping such a hands-off policy, they've let the installation business destroy itself.

i am an hsp owner and its not easy with the cheap rates to make any money.
i cant see an owner could hire people and pay them for the rates that there
paying hsps

i have no employees i get 100% of the cash from an install. and its not very good

and yes its destroying its self it will colapse from with in .

the "free install" killed this industry

[mcmattyo]

He said I was his last appointment of the day, so I don't think I caused waiting for others. by the way, if my appointment was for 8-12 how could I be his last appointment of the day? He showed up several hours late. This is extremely rude behavior. I don't feel bad in the least making him do extra work.

Your such a loser. You are probably the guy at work everyone hates and talks sh!t about. Run 2 lines in case you get a DVR? Can't afford one on yeah it probably would have cost you a $400 deposit. Get a life cheap bum.

[Sirshagg]

Your such a loser. You are probably the guy at work everyone hates and talks sh!t about. Run 2 lines in case you get a DVR? Can't afford one on yeah it probably would have cost you a $400 deposit. Get a life cheap bum.
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/7536/chillpillry7.jpg

[rotomike]

I never saw the chill pill before hehehe I like it!!

Mike

[ulbonado]

$60 x 4 = $240 for your 4 room systems (wall fish)

Ok, fair enough. If he puts up the dish and gets the wires into the attic on DirecTV's nickel, I'd pay $120 for wall fishes to my two rooms (the four was based on their ad-- I don't personally need that many). Guess I just have to talk to the guy when he comes and see what he's willing to do.

[gothamcity]

Your such a loser. You are probably the guy at work everyone hates and talks sh!t about. Run 2 lines in case you get a DVR? Can't afford one on yeah it probably would have cost you a $400 deposit. Get a life cheap bum.

bahahahahaha, sounds like you about stroked out dude!!!!!! :D The cost of that cable is minimal, and there is essentially no addtional work when you are already running one line. It is simply smart thinking. :hurah:

[ulbonado]

Just thought I'd follow up now that I've had my install, in case anyone cares how it turned out. My appt was for 8-12, and the guy showed up at 3. He claimed someone had broken into his truck and stolen his gear over night, so he spent the whole morning lining up another one and so forth. Could be a lame excuse, but at several points while he was working he mentioned something about how this would be better if he had his own tools etc., so perhaps it's actually true. At any rate, I can forgive him being late, although I would think he should have called when he realized he was going to be late, which he didn't do.

But once he got there, he went up on the roof and found LOS with no problem, despite my towering stand of pines on the south side of the house. I talked to him about how I didn't want a bunch of holes drilled through floors or exterior walls, and we worked out how it would be done. He ran the cables down the exterior of the house along the eaves and down a corner. I'll paint over them with trim paint and it won't be too noticeable. Then I let him put one hole through the brick mortar on the foundation to get the cables into the crawl space (same thing that had been done for cable). From there he did a short wall fish up into my family room where the HR21 was going. This only took about 5 minutes-- there was already a hole there because the cable and phone already go that way. And for my upstairs bedroom, I was just getting a simple SD receiver, and the room was already wired for cable. So he just unhooked the far end of that from the cable, and hooked it into the satellite, and presto, I had sat in the bedroom over the existing cable wire, no drilling, no fishing.

The whole thing took him almost 6 hours, including a 30 minute trip to get some big floodlights when it got dark (he said he normally had some in his own truck, but there were none in the borrowed truck he was using).

So overall I was pleased that he hung around getting it all done in the dark and the cold, and the wiring was completed with a minimum of drilling. He didn't charge me anything. So I gave him a tip. I figure he earned it.

[lifelong]

That's also why I don't tip when I go to restaurants... :D It ain't my problem when the restaurant owners don't pay the waiters enouogh money.... :D

Wow, you have already won the douche of the year award. It's early in '08, but I'm pretty sure that the distinction will hold up without any debate.

[Sirshagg]

Wow, you have already won the douche of the year award. It's early in '08, but I'm pretty sure that the distinction will hold up without any debate.

http://www.sizethis.com/s/b/super_smilies007.gif

[EXTREMUM]

Greetings,

I had to jump in on this discussion. I am a contractor under Mastec and I have to say, the compensation is more than horrible. The days of the "professional" installer
are well over. I installed for about 2 years some 4 years ago. I've just invested thousands to get back into the business and I am extremely disappointed. In the past three months, I have worked for two companies and I have only received some $1,200 from them collectively. If it weren't for another source of income I would have gone bankrupt by now. I am only continuing in the business for prospects.

In the two shops I worked in few spoke proper English, even fewer had a clue as to what they were doing. The overall attitude of the supervisors was, "Get it to work, we don't care." I spent most of my time cleaning up other peoples messes. It really is a shame, DirecTV, in my opinion has the best television service out there. How they've survived with the poor installation management and compensation thus far is beyond me.

I'm continuing to do a job well done, any training I receive is provided solely by myself. I can not deny the business prospects I receive through DirecTV, that is what keeps me going.

Anyway, I've gone off on a rant and I believe I've lost my point.

Indeed, tips are not necessary, but if I know I'm going to get a tip or custom work, you'd better know you're going to get an professional install. You get what you pay for, compensation from Mastec in DFW is $60 for the antenna and one receiver, $10 for each additional receiver no matter the amount of time or materials involved. Ka/Ku upgrades are worse, $35 for double the work. After cable, fittings, drop materials and fuel, we may as well be making minimum wage.

In conclusion, best of luck to you ordering DirecTV. Chances of you getting me are slim to none.

Blake Cantrell


I vouch for everything this man says. I work for the same company.

[TigersFanJJ]

bahahahahaha, sounds like you about stroked out dude!!!!!! :D The cost of that cable is minimal, and there is essentially no addtional work when you are already running one line. It is simply smart thinking. :hurah:

Glad you were able to get it done for free. You'd think that would have made you happy instead of making you feel the need to bad mouth the technician. To each his own, I guess.

Personally, I would have charged you about $120 for the two extra lines. I don't work for free for anyone. It doesn't matter how much of a pompus a** you are, the cost is the same. And the second you mentioned "It will be done my way or I'll cancel," I would have been on the phone cancelling the job.

One last thing. You making so much money doesn't make you any more important than the guy that lives in the run-down travel trailer(although I doubt someone who actually uses the words "stroked out" and "dude" make much more than minimum wage). If you feel you deserve more than the next guy just because you make more for a living, well, that is a you problem.

[gothamcity]

Glad you were able to get it done for free. You'd think that would have made you happy instead of making you feel the need to bad mouth the technician. To each his own, I guess.

Personally, I would have charged you about $120 for the two extra lines. I don't work for free for anyone. It doesn't matter how much of a pompus a** you are, the cost is the same. And the second you mentioned "It will be done my way or I'll cancel," I would have been on the phone cancelling the job.

One last thing. You making so much money doesn't make you any more important than the guy that lives in the run-down travel trailer(although I doubt someone who actually uses the words "stroked out" and "dude" make much more than minimum wage). If you feel you deserve more than the next guy just because you make more for a living, well, that is a you problem.

Lets face it. Most of you guys don't respect the fact that your customer took off work, nor do you respect their property. If you act like a trailer park hoosier you will be treated accordingly. Good day.

[paulsown]

I am a Directv customer south of Dallas, and I have had an installer out 3 times in the last 2 years. Every time the installers have been professional and have done an outstanding job installing the equipment. I did not realize they get paid so little for the amount of work they do, and I will tip them from now on.

[braven]

Wow, you have already won the douche of the year award. It's early in '08, but I'm pretty sure that the distinction will hold up without any debate.



BWA HA HA. Wow, that is worthy of the douche of the year award. Who ever heard of NOT tipping a waiter/waitress (for a job well done)? Hope he doesn't frequent the same establishment much. That's how you get a little extra DNA in your mashed taters. Ha!

[jzboggs]

I have no problem tipping installers for doing a good job.

I do have a problem tipping someone for only doing only doing the minimum required of them and not cleaning up the mess that was created by the install.

I had an installer come out to my house and complain that I wanted my wiring in the wall His way left holes in my hardwood floors and had bulges in my carpet in other places. He also parked his van so it was off the driveway leaving tire tracks in my and my neighbor's grass. If he was looking for a tip that isn't the way to earn one.

[somekevinguy]

I was definitely able to experience both types of installers this past month. The first guy which ended up canceling the job because he guaranteed it was going to rain even though the forecast was only a 20% chance of scattered showers(it never ended up raining), was already telling me how he was going to do the install and it seemed very cheesy to me. He also just had a slimy, slick a$$ feel to him. He was just there to get in and get out with the minimal amount of effort. I now thank god that my single story install was too much work for him because the second guy that came was way more professional and seemed to care about doing a good job. Instead of just wrapping cable around my entire house he ran it through the attack to get to the other side. The dish, grounding block, cabling was all installed very neat. I had at least 95 signal strength on all satellites and he used two support arms with the little tar pads on all the mounting points. I even saw him picking up the bits of cable when he was stripping the ends and putting them in his pocket. He did the type of job I would do if I was an installer. I wanted to tip him $40 but unfortunately I only had $20 on me so I gave him that. I had a message on my machine two days later from the installation company telling me to call them back if I had any problems. I called them back just to tell them what a great installation the guy had done.

[Annihilator31]

$60 x 4 = $240 for your 4 room systems (wall fish)

i think dtv should include this in a basic install. then they would have a reason to raise your bill %20
You really think D* should include this (wall fish) in free basic installation, and pay the techs the same rate? If you do, then you need to lay off that crack pipe.

[SledgeHammer]

Yeah, giving these guys tips is absurd. No intention of offending any knowledgable/good installer on the forum, but most of the installers are not in the least. 3 out of 3 of mine were horrible and unprofessional. Maybe if they went above and beyond the call of duty, but most of these guys don't go TO the call of duty, much less go beyond it.

[TigersFanJJ]

Lets face it. Most of you guys don't respect the fact that your customer took off work, nor do you respect their property. If you act like a trailer park hoosier you will be treated accordingly. Good day.

Sorry you feel that way. Truth is, most of us do care and we do respect the customer's property. However, caring about our job and putting up with BS demands from and arrogant jerk are two different things. Luckily, the jerks are few and far between, as are the installers who truly don't care.

I'm not quite sure what a "trailer park hoosier" is but I do agree. How you act is how you will be treated accordingly.

[D-Bamatech]

Man what a sad, sad thread.

(HSP guys .. raped , robbed, and w/o a pistol. ALLLLLLL day everyday)

HINT:
IF YOU DONT KNOW.. enlightenment brings rewards and JUSTICE.
(LAW and organizations private and federal labore laws are at your disposal= USE IT!)

YOU WILL WIN!
(trust me).

ITS ILLEGAL!

(precident IS set (and has been).. step forward and get what you worked for AND DESERVE BACK!

And Mastec guys look what happened in Tampa with the ph line racket..
=Walk out and the Local news called to meet you.
Put this in the public Eye some more.

You guys that stay under this mess and still work i cant understand it..
You need representation as in Union and to get involved with the current and overwelming lawsuits available to you.
File one simple paper with the NLRB , each and every one of you.
Good grief.. Stand up!

[Budman2000]

Man what a sad, sad thread.

I have to agree on that. Its a great showing of the tug-of-war in Quality Of Service vs. Corporate Profits.

Sadly, the baby-boomer's philosophy of "Greed Is Good" makes the decision maker's power almost god-like, with finality.

This is the stuff for what unions were made for, and correcting the wrongs that the greed-meisters create.

[slimline]

please close this thread ............................

[cantrellswire]

please close this thread ............................

I second that.

[RobertE]

Make that three.

[apexmi]

So in Jan 2001 life was roses, until the 20th or whatever that Bush took office? Sorry, but I can't stand this anymore. I'm working as an engineer for the gov't (networking) and have spent 12 years struggling to make the 80k per year I make. I have 2 MCSE's, CNA, Cisco certs, etc and am finishing a bachelor's degree this year in Information Technology. Do you have any idea how much training and education and after hours crap we have to put in on the network side just to stay current and up to date in our line of work? I worked pretty hard at some point to get where I am today, and would never blame a sitting president for my current predicament even if I'd walk into work Monday and get fired.
How about learning a different trade and pulling yourself up by your bootstrap? This is America - how big is the gun pointed at your head that makes you continue in your current line of work?

"Make the boss mad and he will starve you to death"

No one is starving myself, my wife, or my 17 month old son, ever. I'd get off my butt and find a 30k job if I had to, just to keep the lights on.

Also, you do get to write off the mileage and any other expenses associated with your work vehicle, don't you? I sure don't get to write off mileage everyday driving back and forth to work, and neither does my wife...:mad:

+1

To blame the gov't is just a cop out. As a commission only sales rep for a textile manufacturer. I drive my own vehicle pay my own gas (running me about $500-$600 a month currently) I bust my ass to pull down 60-80k year. it does help to go the deduction route, anyone that doesn't already should. Last year I had about $27,000 Itemized with mileage, parking, health insurance, etc....

It is what it is if you don't like what you do go back to school, those of us born here have become far too lazy and blind to the opportunities that are still out there..

[D-Bamatech]

please close this thread ............................

Hmmm.. i just wonder WHY you said that.:rolleyes:

It wont Hide the TRUTH.

Nor the millions of dollars owed BUT TAKEN Illegally under Federal Labor law and simply against what this country was built on.

These patrons of the #1 Television provider have No clue what a construed racket this D* install "game" is.

UNethical Biz, and UNethical treatment of the workers.

Deny it.. You deny FACTS & the Law.

[carl6]

Hmmm.. i just wonder WHY you said that.:rolleyes:

It wont Hide the TRUTH.

Nor the millions of dollars owed BUT TAKEN Illegally under Federal Labor law and simply against what this country was built on.

These patrons of the #1 Television provider have No clue what a construed racket this D* install "game" is.

UNethical Biz, and UNethical treatment of the workers.

Deny it.. You deny FACTS & the Law.

Nor do I think anyone is trying to "hide" any facts or information.

The topic has been thoroughly discussed, many good points have been made, and much information has been provided.

The question is, will keeping the thread open result in new, beneficial, information or will it now become a continuous rehash of the same information?

I also vote to close. That doesn't mean that I don't feel the current DirecTV installation process/system isn't ripe for improvement, but I'm not sure that further discussion in this thread would result in any positive results.

Carl

[slimline]

Hmmm.. i just wonder WHY you said that.:rolleyes:

It wont Hide the TRUTH.

Nor the millions of dollars owed BUT TAKEN Illegally under Federal Labor law and simply against what this country was built on.

These patrons of the #1 Television provider have No clue what a construed racket this D* install "game" is.

UNethical Biz, and UNethical treatment of the workers.

Deny it.. You deny FACTS & the Law.

THATS THE POINT <-----------------ITS A HUGE GAME AND THE ONLY PEOPLE PAYING THE PRICE IS THE "CUSTOMERS" THE EMPLOYEES OF THE HSPS DONT HAVE TO WORK FOR THE CROOKED PRICKS THAT FACT IS THERE IS NO MONEY IN THE
"FREE INSTALL" "SCAM" I SAY SCAM BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT IT IS THERE S NOT ENOUGH MONEY FOR THE OWNER OF THE HSP LET ALONE THE POOR EMPLOYEE

AS FAR AS THE FED LABOR LAW WHO CARES DTV COULD CARE LESS........

HAVE A NICE DAY

[bhanks]

I second that.

I disagree! Keep it open. I actually found an excellent Installer on this thread,
who did a fantastic job for me. It's no telling what I would have ended up with had I used Mastec. I forgo the "Free Installation," and got my HR20 professionally installed as I wanted it, where I wanted it.

I am about 50 miles east of Dallas and my installer traveled about 70 mi. to
get here, and I would recommend him: the above "cantrellswire" to anyone!

Thanks, Blake :)

[MrCastle]

If I still had ladders and a few other essential tools, I came up with the idea of offering step-above installations for a fee, whereas the HSP's don't charge the customer directly, and who knows what you're gonna get.

I'm sure there are quite a few people willing to pay extra and know that they're gonna get a top-notch, professional installation rather than waive that little extra and chance getting one of the trainwreck installations I'm sure we've all seen.

I would be free to take my time, and know that I'd be getting paid what the work was worth. HSP's are just murder.


Here's a basic breakdown of what I got paid to install:

Installations:

1 Outlet = $32
2 Outlet = $44
3 Outlet = $57
4 Outlet = $75
5 Outlet = $85

Service Calls = $14 <------ Stayed the same even if the solution was to uproot and move the dish because trees had grown into the LOS. I flat refused to move any dish on a service call, especially if it was a hulking KA/KU.

Those prices were only slightly higher (a few bucks on average) for KA/KU Installations. Didn't matter how long the job took. You still got paid the same amount. And rather than paying us what the work was worth (or somewhere near it), we were encouraged to supplement our income by becoming salesmen and selling $20 PowerSquid surge protectors for nearly $90, along with other equally high-priced items that could be purchased cheaper elsewhere, along with referral payments, and we were even encouraged to try and sell ACT Security systems.

It got so rediculous that the site manager was convinced that our sales of the "protection plan" were so low because we were not offering, so he drew up this spiffy little "Do you want the protection plan: Check Yes or No and sign it" that he REQUIRED us to turn in with every completed work order... I turned in maybe four in three months.

[John Rausch]

When I ordered two H20 DVRs and arranged for an installation, the installer from the affiliated company came out and told me I had a line-of-sight problem. I do liv ein a heavily wooded area, but I know where the clearance needs to be and cleared all trees in the signal path. I complained and a "secret visit" was made by a supervisor who confirmed the LOS issue. The real problem was that the dish needed to be pole-mounted with about 40 feet of trenching and another 30 through a large crawl space (clean and heated). After losing the battle, I contacted an unaffiliated company and they installed the dish in concrete without even making a test. They were that certain that it would be okay. After getting everything working, I called DirecTV and talked to a supervisor in the installation section who gave me credit, spread over a year, for the cost of the dish installation. Pretty pleased with that, but many customers would have given up.

[Jaspear]

Yeah, giving these guys tips is absurd. No intention of offending any knowledgable/good installer on the forum, but most of the installers are not in the least. 3 out of 3 of mine were horrible and unprofessional. Maybe if they went above and beyond the call of duty, but most of these guys don't go TO the call of duty, much less go beyond it.

Here's my "tip" story: I was all set to give the installer a tip for my 1 outlet HD PVR install, even after I assisted him by doing the 40' cable run through my crawl space while he installed the slimline antenna.

Then I noticed that he had not grounded either the dish or the cable line. He said he had no ground block with him, because he was using his own 4 wheel drive vehicle rather than the company van due to poor road conditions and had inadvertently left the ground block in the van. He promised to return within a day or two to finish. I decided he would get the tip when the install was complete and done to my satisfaction.

A week later, I used his tip to buy the ground block, connectors and compression tool I needed to complete the installation. Come to think of it, that worked out well for me. I've wanted a compression tool for the longest time, but could never justify the cost until now.:)

[joe diamond]

I think Carl is correct. time to close the thread........everything has been said a few times.

AND I note that nobody from DTV or MASTEC or IRONWOOD or DIRECTSAT USA (the hsps I have dealt with) has objected to any of this. How about just one HSP manager stating that "we pay for the work we authorize promptly and completely?' OR how about a DTV suit stating, "I never heard of any of this...I will investigate and correct this situation."

This has been a good thread but.......in the absence of new news..stick a fork in it, it's done.

Joe