Back to core functionality, please

[gregjones]

At the risk of sounding like some DLB zealot, I have to ask the obvious question. When is DirecTV going to go back to focusing on core functionality?

The great majority of the CE updates seem centered on Media Center functionality. The "big announcement" at CES seems to be centered on a DirecTV tuner card for the PC. If these help the investor relationships, that's great. But they will not impact a huge user base.

There are a number of relatively straightforward features that seem to be prioritized below this media center integration:

MRV, which would help sell HD DVRs by justifying their cost
eSATA storage being additional instead of replacement
SWM, which could make additional customers a possibility
Getting customers off of "second satellite" installations in small markets, which could decrease installation costs


I love the VOD features. I love the HR20. I prefer it to my old TiVo. But I am disappointed that the low-hanging fruit continues to be passed by.

[say-what]

SWM is begining its rollout - slowly, but it's beginning

DirecTV has begun migrating locals from 72 to 103 and more will occur with the launch of D11.

MRV appears much closer based on the items Earl posted in the CES thread. That just leaves the eSATA issue, which with the size of eSATA drives, probably makes it a lower priority.

[PoitNarf]

The reports are still preliminary. Let's wait to see what all of the final updates from CES bring to the table.

[ebockelman]

At the risk of sounding like some DLB zealot, I have to ask the obvious question. When is DirecTV going to go back to focusing on core functionality?

The great majority of the CE updates seem centered on Media Center functionality. The "big announcement" at CES seems to be centered on a DirecTV tuner card for the PC. If these help the investor relationships, that's great. But they will not impact a huge user base.

There are a number of relatively straightforward features that seem to be prioritized below this media center integration:

MRV, which would help sell HD DVRs by justifying their cost
eSATA storage being additional instead of replacement
SWM, which could make additional customers a possibility
Getting customers off of "second satellite" installations in small markets, which could decrease installation costs


I love the VOD features. I love the HR20. I prefer it to my old TiVo. But I am disappointed that the low-hanging fruit continues to be passed by.

Media Center integration would give you the MRV and eSATA features you want (just on a PC instead of the HR receivers). Plus you get DLB!

[gregjones]

SWM is begining its rollout - slowly, but it's beginning

DirecTV has begun migrating locals from 72 to 103 and more will occur with the launch of D11.

MRV appears much closer based on the items Earl posted in the CES thread. That just leaves the eSATA issue, which with the size of eSATA drives, probably makes it a lower priority.

The problem with eSATA is not the size of the drives. The problem is losing all of the content already on there, and all of the series links...

[gregjones]

Media Center integration would give you the MRV and eSATA features you want (just on a PC instead of the HR receivers). Plus you get DLB!

I would never want this functionality on a PC. Ever.

I understand the rationale, but I do not want it. I have built HTPCs and the HR20 is a very good value comparatively. To put similar functionality in a PC just for OTA dual tuner support would cost you probably $700. I would much rather have a supported, maintained product subsidized considerably as the HR20 is.

Nothing in the statements I have seen suggest that this is a viable solution for MRV. MRV should have merged playlists, priority lists and disk management across all tuners (yes, multiple HR20/21s).

In short, I'm glad for you if you wanted this functionality. It doesn't help me.

[JeffBowser]

I wonder how many out there have no regard for Media Center at all ? I have been in the software\PC industry for 23 years now, I don't want to deal with crashing Windows when all I want to do is sit stupidly in front of some mindless entertainment, as simply as possible. :lol: The fact that they are pursuing it seems to tell me their research shows a market. Maybe I have just gotten to old and jaded.

At the risk of sounding like some DLB zealot, I have to ask the obvious question. When is DirecTV going to go back to focusing on core functionality?

The great majority of the CE updates seem centered on Media Center functionality. The "big announcement" at CES seems to be centered on a DirecTV tuner card for the PC. If these help the investor relationships, that's great. But they will not impact a huge user base.

There are a number of relatively straightforward features that seem to be prioritized below this media center integration:

MRV, which would help sell HD DVRs by justifying their cost
eSATA storage being additional instead of replacement
SWM, which could make additional customers a possibility
Getting customers off of "second satellite" installations in small markets, which could decrease installation costs


I love the VOD features. I love the HR20. I prefer it to my old TiVo. But I am disappointed that the low-hanging fruit continues to be passed by.

[Sirshagg]

I wonder how many out there have no regard for Media Center at all ? I have been in the software\PC industry for 23 years now, I don't want to deal with crashing Windows when all I want to do is sit stupidly in front of some mindless entertainment, as simply as possible. :lol: The fact that they are pursuing it seems to tell me their research shows a market. Maybe I have just gotten to old and jaded.

I can't imagine many people are interested in this but what do I know. My guess - anyone with a next gen gameing console who plays it regularly (and is actually good at it) would probably like this functionality. Everyone else will probably never use it.

[bhelton71]

I wonder how many out there have no regard for Media Center at all ? I have been in the software\PC industry for 23 years now, I don't want to deal with crashing Windows when all I want to do is sit stupidly in front of some mindless entertainment, as simply as possible. :lol: The fact that they are pursuing it seems to tell me their research shows a market. Maybe I have just gotten to old and jaded.

You're too old and jaded :)

MS Media Center is a 'mainstream' solution - and multiple full featured turnkey solutions built around it can be purchased. In my opinion - the better DVR solutions are BeyondTV and Sage which support unlimited tuners (well there are power supply contraints,etc), place shifting, transcoding to personal devices, DVD burning,etc.

And thats not to take away anything from the free ones either - they are actually pretty good and I have used MediaPortal and Myth at other folks houses - but commercial software comes with guide data.

Its not so much about just watching tv now. Now more focus on metadata - and thats where a PC can't be touched by any consumer device. Even BluRay can't compete with the Internet and if the data changes - a BluRay disc can't be updated.

[Ken S]

They have never said they were going to do MRV from HR20 to HR20. The announcements they have made talked about a central home server. MRV between HR2Xs certainly may happen...but it hasn't been officially announced.

As for Windows crashing. Rather than get into the usual OS fight I'll just say that the Windows server software has been incredibly stable for me over the past five years. SBS 2003 and 2003 R2 have been absolutely rock solid.

It'll be interesting to see if the new DirecTV product (should it ever be really released) works well with WHS.

If anyone is interested you can build a very nice media server for about $500.

[gregjones]

They have never said they were going to do MRV from HR20 to HR20. The announcements they have made talked about a central home server. MRV between HR2Xs certainly may happen...but it hasn't been officially announced.

As for Windows crashing. Rather than get into the usual OS fight I'll just say that the Windows server software has been incredibly stable for me over the past five years. SBS 2003 and 2003 R2 have been absolutely rock solid.

It'll be interesting to see if the new DirecTV product (should it ever be really released) works well with WHS.

If anyone is interested you can build a very nice media server for about $500.

To Jeff's point, though, some of us just don't see the advantage. I build software for a living. I run a Linux Terminal Server Project (LTSP) installation in my home. When it comes to TV, I just don't want to deal with the constant tinkering.

For me, $500 and a lot of work, versus $200 and none was an easy call. I will take the HR20 at $200 and be happy.



As for MRV being HR20-based, that would be one of the few explanations I could see for their work on networking, etc. that they have already done. Remote booking, remote viewing (PC files on the HR20) and a number of other features lend themselves very obviously to parts of the MRV puzzle. I know it hasn't been announced as an HR20 feature, but it makes a lot of sense.

[gregjones]

I can't imagine many people are interested in this but what do I know. My guess - anyone with a next gen gameing console who plays it regularly (and is actually good at it) would probably like this functionality. Everyone else will probably never use it.

...And I also have a new gaming console. I bought it because I also don't justify building a $2000 PC so that it works as well as a $300-$400 gaming console. It's a pattern.

[cbearnm]

Bowser, you took the words right out of my mouth (even the 23 years in the software industry, ironically).

I just want a 'device' that just works well.

I want remote booking.

I am a gadget freak and will buy toys that do what they should do. But I have never got into multi-use devices. If something happens to my hard drive, I don't want to lose my TV functionality as well. I prefer console gaming to PC, I want to play games, not upgrade video cards every 6 months.

I have an Apple TV and it does exactly what it is supposed to do. Not HD, but for what I use it for, it works great. And if my computer hard drive dies, there is enough stored on the Apple to tide me over.

And I first saw D*'s initial attempt at multi-room viewing 2 years ago at CES and they are shipping it ... when are they going to ship it ?

But then, I know I am old and jaded.

(By the way, I have had multi-room viewing for about 5 years now. I have cables run from the living room to the master bedroom. I have a remote repeater ($30) and can control my HR20 (HR10 and GXCEBOT before that) from the bedroom.)

[Jhon69]

I wonder how many out there have no regard for Media Center at all ? I have been in the software\PC industry for 23 years now, I don't want to deal with crashing Windows when all I want to do is sit stupidly in front of some mindless entertainment, as simply as possible. :lol: The fact that they are pursuing it seems to tell me their research shows a market. Maybe I have just gotten to old and jaded.



My thoughts exactly.That why I still have a SDTV and a R15.;)

[Ken S]

To Jeff's point, though, some of us just don't see the advantage. I build software for a living. I run a Linux Terminal Server Project (LTSP) installation in my home. When it comes to TV, I just don't want to deal with the constant tinkering.

For me, $500 and a lot of work, versus $200 and none was an easy call. I will take the HR20 at $200 and be happy.



As for MRV being HR20-based, that would be one of the few explanations I could see for their work on networking, etc. that they have already done. Remote booking, remote viewing (PC files on the HR20) and a number of other features lend themselves very obviously to parts of the MRV puzzle. I know it hasn't been announced as an HR20 feature, but it makes a lot of sense.

Oh, don't get me wrong...I want to see it. It's also something their competition has been doing. But, I'm not going to hold my breath and the fact they are announcing other things doesn't speak well for our chances.

[Steve Robertson]

All I want is a good functioning box and be able to watch good quality HD TV.

I guess I am old and jaded as well but all this other stuff for me really doesn't matter.

[MIAMI1683]

Ok well I have an xbox 360 and I love it. It doubles as a media center for me, including streaming my music and downloading content, having said that. This looks like another reciever ie. another $4.99 per month for the use of it. I am pretty sure it will be a lease, and all I wanted was MRV also. With the three hrxx that I have, I almost mave a TB of storage now. Only one gets really close to full, and I would love to be able to pull my movies directly into another room if necessary. I saw it on Tivo years back and love the thought of it for my house too. I like the hrxx series, but probably wouldn't pay for this new piece. ( I will test it for free though)

[JeffBowser]

Lot of good points up here - it does seem to come down to a generation gap, from the little sample on this thread.

Anyway - Ken - I still have NT4 servers that never crash, all the way through to 2003 servers. It's the workstations doing bleeding edge stuff, and the huge combination of softwares and software updates on these workstations that are the usual suspects.


They have never said they were going to do MRV from HR20 to HR20. The announcements they have made talked about a central home server. MRV between HR2Xs certainly may happen...but it hasn't been officially announced.

As for Windows crashing. Rather than get into the usual OS fight I'll just say that the Windows server software has been incredibly stable for me over the past five years. SBS 2003 and 2003 R2 have been absolutely rock solid.

It'll be interesting to see if the new DirecTV product (should it ever be really released) works well with WHS.

If anyone is interested you can build a very nice media server for about $500.

[Earl Bonovich]

Lot of good points up here - it does seem to come down to a generation gap, from the little sample on this thread.

Anyway - Ken - I still have NT4 servers that never crash, all the way through to 2003 servers. It's the workstations doing bleeding edge stuff, and the huge combination of softwares and software updates on these workstations that are the usual suspects.

All OS systems can fail/crash/hang or require reboots... all of them.
There is not 1 perfect OS.


As to the original question of the thread.
"Core functionality"

What is the definition of teh Core functionality:
-) Record Content
-) Playback Recorded Content

While they will always work to improve and eliminate any issues with those functions.... For a very very large percentage of users, that functionality already does work... and works very well.

While there will probably always be issues with it here and there (as 9 years later, the TiVo platform still has an issue here and there with the "core"), does/should everything else be dropped to focus just on the core ?

It is a fairly large development team... that is capable of working on multiple things at once. There are things already "done" in theif first incarnations that are just waiting their turn to hit CE process.

[JeffBowser]

Touché :)

All OS systems can fail/crash/hang or require reboots... all of them.
There is not 1 perfect OS.


As to the original question of the thread.
"Core functionality"

What is the definition of teh Core functionality:
-) Record Content
-) Playback Recorded Content

While they will always work to improve and eliminate any issues with those functions.... For a very very large percentage of users, that functionality already does work... and works very well.

While there will probably always be issues with it here and there (as 9 years later, the TiVo platform still has an issue here and there with the "core"), does/should everything else be dropped to focus just on the core ?

It is a fairly large development team... that is capable of working on multiple things at once. There are things already "done" in theif first incarnations that are just waiting their turn to hit CE process.

[gregjones]

What is the definition of teh Core functionality:
-) Record Content
-) Playback Recorded Content

While they will always work to improve and eliminate any issues with those functions.... For a very very large percentage of users, that functionality already does work... and works very well.


Recording content and playing it back is core. I would argue that doing that from any DirecTV HR2x (I'd rather say receiver, but am not that hopeful) on the same account is a very close next step.

I feel like I am doing their job for them by helping explain to them how to sell more DVRs. Networked DVRs that work together will sell more.

I am all for the idea of Media Sharing, but only to the extent that it provides incremental functionality required for MRV. A lot of us want to be able to sit in front of any HR2x in our home and watch programming from any of them. We want to be able to schedule a recording and have it put on a free tuner on whatever HR2x has one available.

This functionality directly ties to the current user base. The Media Center product may have a very valid demographic, but it is not the same as the current HR2x user base.

[gregjones]

All OS systems can fail/crash/hang or require reboots... all of them.
There is not 1 perfect OS.


I will take issue with one aspect of this statement, Earl. You are correct that there is no perfect OS. The problem is in expecting a computer to be both general purpose and still function flawlessly at a niche usage (gaming PC or DirecTV DVR). I fully expect that any product that Dell and DirecTV ships will function as designed.

Then the user will install the latest game and all of the software dependencies. They they call support because their DVR doesn't work.

[Earl Bonovich]

I will take issue with one aspect of this statement, Earl. You are correct that there is no perfect OS. The problem is in expecting a computer to be both general purpose and still function flawlessly at a niche usage (gaming PC or DirecTV DVR). I fully expect that any product that Dell and DirecTV ships will function as designed.

Then the user will install the latest game and all of the software dependencies. They they call support because their DVR doesn't work.

My OS comment was directed at those starting to go back and forth about which OS is stable, and which is not.

It was not in reference to the HR20/21 and it's software on top of it's OS.

[Earl Bonovich]

I feel like I am doing their job for them by helping explain to them how to sell more DVRs. Networked DVRs that work together will sell more.


MRV has already been in the works for a while now... it has been referenced in no less then three quarterly updates as a feature in the works.

MRV... will be on the HR2* platform.

[JeffBowser]

Um, we were not starting to go back and forth on which OS is stable or not. For my part, I was making the comment that servers tend to be stable and workstations do not. Media Center is a workstation, no matter how spin-meisters play it, and as another poster noted - as soon as someone starts adding 3rd party software, oops - I don't care if this is Windows or some flavor of Linux, things are going to start to destabilize. I am of the school of thought that traditional PCs and PC OS's should stay away from my television - this is my entire point, not "go back and forth on which OS is stable". You make me sound like a OT thread-jacker. :(

My OS comment was directed at those starting to go back and forth about which OS is stable, and which is not.

It was not in reference to the HR20/21 and it's software on top of it's OS.

[bakerfall]

Um, we were not starting to go back and forth on which OS is stable or not. For my part, I was making the comment that servers tend to be stable and workstations do not. Media Center is a workstation, no matter how spin-meisters play it, and as another poster noted - as soon as someone starts adding 3rd party software, oops - I don't care if this is Windows or some flavor of Linux, things are going to start to destabilize. I am of the school of thought that traditional PCs and PC OS's should stay away from my television - this is my entire point, not "go back and forth on which OS is stable". You make me sound like a OT thread-jacker. :(

My feeling is either a.) don't use your media center PC as your general, everyday use PC or b.) don't use Media Center as your primary method for viewing TV.

[Ken S]

MRV has already been in the works for a while now... it has been referenced in no less then three quarterly updates as a feature in the works.

MRV... will be on the HR2* platform.

Earl,

When you get a chance can you link me the references to MRV working on the HR2x series (without a server unit). I have missed those announcements. This can certainly wait until you get home from Vegas. I'm delighted to hear it is going to be an HR2x enhancment.

BTW, do all the DBSTalk folks stay in the same hotel? I used to stay at the Hilton because I was lazy and waiting two hours for a cab was painful. One year I ended up at the Riviera...it's close, but umm...the "entertainers" walking the halls and knocking on the doors were a bit much.

[itguy05]

Media Center integration would give you the MRV and eSATA features you want (just on a PC instead of the HR receivers). Plus you get DLB!

Yeah, instead of the simplicity of turning on the TV and watching, I would have to:

Deal with the BS of owning a Windows machine (I'm a Mac user and have 0 Windows at home).
Deal with updating said Windows box
Deal with incompatibilities and conflicts on said Windows box
Look at the FUGLY Vista UI
You think the HR series uses power, nothing like a PC running 24/7 to suck power

No thanks, I need reliability and performance from my computer/TV/etc. Which is why Nothing MS Makes will ever be in my entertainment center.

While I realize no OS is perfect and all OS's crash, since going Mac and Linux at home I've switched from troubleshooting/tweaking/maintaining to actually using a computer again. Imagine sleeping your laptop/desktop during the day and come home, move the mouse and be right where you left off. Imagine reliability like your car (ie: turn the key and 99.9% of the time it starts). That's what I've had since 2002 and it's not provided by an OS made by Microsoft.

[Ken S]

Yeah, instead of the simplicity of turning on the TV and watching, I would have to:

Deal with the BS of owning a Windows machine (I'm a Mac user and have 0 Windows at home).
Deal with updating said Windows box
Deal with incompatibilities and conflicts on said Windows box
Look at the FUGLY Vista UI
You think the HR series uses power, nothing like a PC running 24/7 to suck power

No thanks, I need reliability and performance from my computer/TV/etc. Which is why Nothing MS Makes will ever be in my entertainment center.

You could run it on a WHS...and a well-built server could run with very low power consumption.

In addition you could potentially do away with some of your DVRs and just have Windows Media Extenders in their place. They wouldn't have to be turned on 24x7 like a DVR.

As for your Windows bashing...why not save that for the "Genius" bar at your local Apple store...it really doesn't belong here. Computers are a tool...not a religion.

[ktk0117]

Yeah, instead of the simplicity of turning on the TV and watching, I would have to:

Deal with the BS of owning a Windows machine (I'm a Mac user and have 0 Windows at home).
Deal with updating said Windows box
Deal with incompatibilities and conflicts on said Windows box
Look at the FUGLY Vista UI
You think the HR series uses power, nothing like a PC running 24/7 to suck power

No thanks, I need reliability and performance from my computer/TV/etc. Which is why Nothing MS Makes will ever be in my entertainment center.

Yep, you said it. I agree 100%.

All we really need to do, should come from the one box, not because it's running through a PC. That just would not work for people without computers, older people, etc.

It would prove to be too complicated for many out there, and if D* is looking for new subs, then they need to keep it simple, one box, many functions.

[NYSmoker]

I can't imagine many people are interested in this but what do I know. My guess - anyone with a next gen gameing console who plays it regularly (and is actually good at it) would probably like this functionality. Everyone else will probably never use it.

The next gen gaming consoles, I have an Xbox 360, already are media centers. The Xbox 360 is miles ahead of the HR20 as a media device.

[CTJon]

I have to agree with the OP of this thread. Maybe I'm too old and the wrong generation but I like having separate boxes that work well and do a specific job well. I'm sure there is a market for running DirecTv on a PC and they will sell that device but people who will use it probably will dedicate a pc to do that (what savings is that). Using a pc to do a whole variety of things takes expertise and constant fixing. Look at all the people on this forum who have problems networking their DVR's. It ain't the simplest thing but probably not as complex as managing effectively Vista media center to serve as your DVR and distribution point.

I'm a computer technology executive and have worked in the technology business since back in the punch card days and I struggle with mixing some of the current technologies.

Additionally, not only to focus on core functions but also to focus on fixing bugs and other issues. When a new DVR is released it should be rock solid on core functions - recording and playing back shows - always with syncronized sound. etc. Spending significant programming time on changing UI's isn't what should be done, in my opinion.

[jagowar]

Um, we were not starting to go back and forth on which OS is stable or not. For my part, I was making the comment that servers tend to be stable and workstations do not. Media Center is a workstation, no matter how spin-meisters play it, and as another poster noted - as soon as someone starts adding 3rd party software, oops - I don't care if this is Windows or some flavor of Linux, things are going to start to destabilize. I am of the school of thought that traditional PCs and PC OS's should stay away from my television - this is my entire point, not "go back and forth on which OS is stable". You make me sound like a OT thread-jacker. :(

I guess im too "young" here but my media center server has been very very stable since vista came out (its never missed a recording). then again i treat my vista server as a server and generally do not install any software on it (outside of media center stuff). infact media center has been more stable than my hr20&21.

The media center ui is also far better (the movies and sports sections are a good example of why its better) and more advanced that directv will be getting anytime soon so that (to me) is reason enough to use it. And the extender concept is up and running now and has been for a while. Not to mention having multiple terabytes of storage is far easier on a computer as is some of the advanced stuff like webguide and lifextender/dvrmstoolbox.

[itguy05]

You could run it on a WHS...and a well-built server could run with very low power consumption.

Again, I don't want the hassle of Windows anywhere.

As for your Windows bashing...why not save that for the "Genius" bar at your local Apple store...it really doesn't belong here. Computers are a tool...not a religion.

Windows puts food on my table, a car in the driveway, and DirecTV in my house. I don't think it's a good OS or recommend it to anyone.

That being said, it's not bashing, just experiences of being in IT for 15 years, using every version of Windows from 3.0 to Server 2003. I actually thought that things were supposed to be the way they are with Windows until I experienced other OS's. It wasn't until then that I saw mostly better ways to accomplish the same goal. And just for the record, I have issues with OS X and Linux as well. It's just I have less issues with them than Windows (including the Debacle that is Vista).

[Sirshagg]

The next gen gaming consoles, I have an Xbox 360, already are media centers. The Xbox 360 is miles ahead of the HR20 as a media device.

My comment was intended to convey the types of people who would use all the fancy media center stuff on the HRxxx receivers. Tech savy people are much more more likely to use such features. In general it probably comes down to age - under 20 would probably love it, 20-40 maybe, over 40 probably not.

[gregjones]

MRV has already been in the works for a while now... it has been referenced in no less then three quarterly updates as a feature in the works.

MRV... will be on the HR2* platform.

Thanks for the assurance. Others had expressed doubts about it being on the HR2x platform.

[gregjones]

The next gen gaming consoles, I have an Xbox 360, already are media centers. The Xbox 360 is miles ahead of the HR20 as a media device.

And yet, the HR20 is a much better DVR for DirecTV HD satellite programming, which was its intended purpose.

[gregjones]

My comment was intended to convey the types of people who would use all the fancy media center stuff on the HRxxx receivers. Tech savy people are much more more likely to use such features. In general it probably comes down to age - under 20 would probably love it, 20-40 maybe, over 40 probably not.

Actually, no. I am the most pro-technology person I know. I'm 34. I started programming in the third grade. I have worked developing and designing software on every major operating system used in the last 20 years.

I abhore multifunction devices. I want my printer to print, reliably. I don't want hosed up software for its scanning functions keeping it from doing its real job. I want my phone to be a phone, not a lousy camera or cheap MP3 player. I buy things that are the best at what they do and hate the concept of buying something to do 15 things sub-par.

[Ken S]

Again, I don't want the hassle of Windows anywhere.



Windows puts food on my table, a car in the driveway, and DirecTV in my house. I don't think it's a good OS or recommend it to anyone.

That being said, it's not bashing, just experiences of being in IT for 15 years, using every version of Windows from 3.0 to Server 2003. I actually thought that things were supposed to be the way they are with Windows until I experienced other OS's. It wasn't until then that I saw mostly better ways to accomplish the same goal. And just for the record, I have issues with OS X and Linux as well. It's just I have less issues with them than Windows (including the Debacle that is Vista).

itguy,

Ahh...well...how could I have mistaken what you said for bashing? I often call things Fugly and mean it as a term of endearment.

I understand you don't like Windows, that you may like Mac or Linux better. The item that DirecTV has announced doesn't have to be for everyone. They have a DVR or two that are expandable though eSATA drives that may serve your purpose quite well. They even run on some flavor of Linux.

All that being said...we may never see this device anyway...There are some prototypes out there, but there's no guarantees they'll ever release it.

Personally, I hope they do release it and it's not encumbered with DRM restrictions and/or poor design limitations that make sharing the data throughout my home LAN difficult. I'd much, much rather have one HR2x devices and five media extenders than six HR2x devices all over my house. I'd also like to be able to use the PC components I want in a case I want, with the HDs (size, speed) that I want. The better I can centralize the media options in my home the more I can offer to each location...and in the case of my child the better I can keep tabs on what he's watching and impose the limitations I believe necessary.

[TBoneit]

I have to agree with the OP of this thread. Maybe I'm too old and the wrong generation but I like having separate boxes that work well and do a specific job well. I'm sure there is a market for running DirecTv on a PC and they will sell that device but people who will use it probably will dedicate a pc to do that (what savings is that). Using a pc to do a whole variety of things takes expertise and constant fixing. Look at all the people on this forum who have problems networking their DVR's. It ain't the simplest thing but probably not as complex as managing effectively Vista media center to serve as your DVR and distribution point.

I'm a computer technology executive and have worked in the technology business since back in the punch card days and I struggle with mixing some of the current technologies.

Additionally, not only to focus on core functions but also to focus on fixing bugs and other issues. When a new DVR is released it should be rock solid on core functions - recording and playing back shows - always with syncronized sound. etc. Spending significant programming time on changing UI's isn't what should be done, in my opinion.

Well said. I don't want to be the type that buys a hammer and decides one tool fits all. It won't make a good wrench or screwdriver will it. I want a good DVR and a Good TV and a Good stereo. I don't want them to try and be my phone, my internet, my organizer, my mp3 player etc.

I make a living fixing computers that the owners try to do too many things on. Then they wonder why it gets slow or crashes and has conflicts with other software they installed. I have one customer that has a fast computer that takes forever to load. It has so much junk that loads at startup in case he needs it.

It's always having problems because it works fine until he fixes it. I keep saying if it isn't broken don't fix it. But nope he tinkers, tinkers , tinkers until it is deads again. I hear things like I only pressed one key and now my software is gone. Or I had XXX software working fine until I changed some setting. Make it work again. And this is the target audience for a PC Card Satellite tuner? Ha!

I suspect that many are thinking wow I'll be able too rip the digital data stream. Nope It'll be locked down tight or thecard won't appear.

[jjohns]

I wonder how many out there have no regard for Media Center at all ? I have been in the software\PC industry for 23 years now, I don't want to deal with crashing Windows when all I want to do is sit stupidly in front of some mindless entertainment, as simply as possible. :lol: The fact that they are pursuing it seems to tell me their research shows a market. Maybe I have just gotten to old and jaded.

It's the typical case of upper managment VP's learning a few of the new "buzzwords" of the day and someone has convinced them they must have it in order to compete with their rivals. Just how large could the market for these pc to dvr applications be? Even in a high tech forum such as this there are only going to be a handful of those that will set it up and then only a handful that actually uses it. Wow, we have the ability to see the pc on the dvr, and the ability to see DirecTV on the pc, except the lips still don't match the words on neither.

[JeffBowser]

:lol: :lol:

Wow, we have the ability to see the pc on the dvr, and the ability to see DirecTV on the pc, except the lips still don't match the words on neither.

[GregLee]

... MRV. A lot of us want to be able to sit in front of any HR2x in our home and watch programming from any of them. ... This functionality directly ties to the current user base. The Media Center product may have a very valid demographic, but it is not the same as the current HR2x user base.
"us" ... "we" ... "current user base". Look at it from the D* perspective. They want new customers. We're already customers. You're arguing, in effect, that they should concentrate on the Media Center product.

[gregjones]

"us" ... "we" ... "current user base". Look at it from the D* perspective. They want new customers. We're already customers. You're arguing, in effect, that they should concentrate on the Media Center product.

Actually, they want to sell more services. They would be just as happy to sell more HR20s with these features. New customers get better deals. Selling extra equipment to existing customers is often more profitable.

[GregLee]

New customers get better deals.
Why do new customers get better deals? Think it through.

[NYSmoker]

And yet, the HR20 is a much better DVR for DirecTV HD satellite programming, which was its intended purpose.

It is indeed, so why make it something else, that it will most likely not function so well at.

I am still young, but getting older and more curmudgeonly. While I still love new technology, I do not like devices that do everything. Pick one thing and do it well.

[itguy05]

Ahh...well...how could I have mistaken what you said for bashing? I often call things Fugly and mean it as a term of endearment.

Vista's default UI definitely needs lots of work - it's very hard on the eyes and hard to read many elements. (And I have 20/20 vision and luckily don't wear glasses) It looks sort of cool, but not easy on the eyes. The transparency is visually distracting.

Then again, XP's default theme is a POS as well and the first thing I do is go back to the "classic" Windows. XP's default is Fisher-Price and very visually distracding.

Leopard is not much better from a Usability perspective as well - the transparent menubar is idiocy, Stacks are poorly designed (we can't even scroll them) and Apple took away some valuable functionality when you right click on the dock. The Dock needs help and is distracting as well.

Your computer UI needs to be as unobtrusive as possible and should be easy to read. It's a shame both MS and Apple are heading in more the eye-candy direction.

All that being said...we may never see this device anyway...There are some prototypes out there, but there's no guarantees they'll ever release it.

My guess is it's almost set for release - It's got FCC #'s, etc. However not having a working demo there is strange.

Personally, I hope they do release it and it's not encumbered with DRM restrictions and/or poor design limitations that make sharing the data throughout my home LAN difficult. I'd much, much rather have one HR2x devices and five media extenders than six HR2x devices all over my house. I'd also like to be able to use the PC components I want in a case I want, with the HDs (size, speed) that I want. The better I can centralize the media options in my home the more I can offer to each location...and in the case of my child the better I can keep tabs on what he's watching and impose the limitations I believe necessary.

I can completely understand those needs. I'd rather them have an Uber-HR-2x with, say 1TB and then sell (or lease) you boxes that use that machine. Sort of like the media extenders, but use the DTV platform. It would be cool to have 1 set of Coax to an uber-DVR, then HDMI to TV 1, Ethernet to the network and out to boxes at each set that access the media on each box.

We're just going to have to wait and see.

[Ken S]

My guess is it's almost set for release - It's got FCC #'s, etc. However not having a working demo there is strange.

That's not an FCC ID in the picture. It's the FCC logo for compliance which just mean that the manufacturer says it will comply with FCC standards. I don't think this device would need FCC approval...the HR2x series don't require it (only the remote controls that transmit RF signals have it).

I'm not sure what the "Pace" number is.

Anyway, I'm not arguing with you over which UI is good or bad. I've just been seeing the same "discussions" since the days of the Commodore Pet vs the Apple and TRS-80s, etc.

I say we go back to Load "*", 8,1
SYS 49152
;)

[Tybio]

In short, I'm glad for you if you wanted this functionality. It doesn't help me.

As with everything on the internets, people always think there is only one serial path to accomplish things.

The reality, hard as it is to believe, is that the team who did the HDPC20 would be out of work if not for the product, not working on the HR20/21. Not everything is a trade off...things work in parallel. Just like the SWM you were talking about has been seeing steady progress even as new CEs come out for the DVRs...and a USB Tuner is announced.

It is not one thing at a time...as long as it is only what I care about. It is about parallel efforts to improve the product for as many segments of the user base as possible concurrently.

[gregjones]

As with everything on the internets, people always think there is only one serial path to accomplish things.

The reality, hard as it is to believe, is that the team who did the HDPC20 would be out of work if not for the product, not working on the HR20/21. Not everything is a trade off...things work in parallel. Just like the SWM you were talking about has been seeing steady progress even as new CEs come out for the DVRs...and a USB Tuner is announced.

It is not one thing at a time...as long as it is only what I care about. It is about parallel efforts to improve the product for as many segments of the user base as possible concurrently.

If you will read in this thread and the other thread discussing CES news, you will see that I already talked about that.

If these are incremental steps in a larger plan, I support them. If playing back HR20 content on a PC gets them closer to having HR2x or H2x boxes be clients (MRV), then I am all for it.

Projects do work in parallel. I have worked with large projects for more than a decade. Money and interest often don't work in parallel. I have often seen a low-potential project draw time and mindshare from more attainable and potentially successful projects.

[gregjones]

The other common denominator in all of DirecTV's product offerings is customer support. All of these products result in people dialing the same call centers and require service by the same installers. These are finite resources.