Grounding the dish

[carsonius]

I had my new service installed last Friday. They were 7.5 hours late and didn't leave until 10:30pm but, that's another discussion.

I checked their work before they left and noted they ran a ground wire from the grounding block to a cold water pipe in my basement. I noticed they cut the ground wire that's integrated into the cable, (Perfect Vision PVCX3B, two RG6 cables with a 17AWG ground), at the grounding block. I just thought they were lazy and let it go. I went back to where the service enters my basement and attached the ground wire to a convenient cold water pipe.

Today I went up to the roof to make sure they attached this ground wire to the dish and found they did not.

My question to this most excellent brain trust is this: Should I scrape off some paint under one of the mast connections and attach the wire there? Is there a proper place on the dish assembly to attach a ground wire?

I'm certainly going to complain about this but, I'm not in the mood to hang out at my house for an entire day so the local Ironwood installers can come back and ground the dish properly.

[bt-rtp]

Yes ground it. There is not not really proper place, a mast bolt would work quite well.

The primary benefit of grounding the satellite antenna is that static electricity in the air will have a path to discharge to earth ground versus your entertainment equipment. For example, if lightening strikes someplace near by in your neighborhood.

See this link for a diagram:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=941620#post941620

My question to this most excellent brain trust is this: Should I scrape off some paint under one of the mast connections and attach the wire there? Is there a proper place on the dish assembly to attach a ground wire?

[armophob]

Everything you could ever want to ask or know about grounding is here.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=84943

[veryoldschool]

For example, if lightening strikes someplace near by in your neighborhood.
See this link for a diagram:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=941620#post941620
PLEASE don't think that a 17 ga wire will do any good discharging a lightning strike. Yes it will bleed off static.

[aim2pls]

a 3 inch solid copper rod isn't enough to take a lightning strike ... yes it will bleed off static .. it will also raise the ground potential to the dish making it the highest point (aka a ligthning rod) ... each to their own

[slimline]

a 3 inch solid copper rod isn't enough to take a lightning strike ... yes it will bleed off static .. it will also raise the ground potential to the dish making it the highest point (aka a ligthning rod) ... each to their own

I DONT THING THEY ARE CODE ANY MORE... 6 FT COPPER CLAD

[HD AV]

Bleeding off the static charge that can build up is the most important aspect of the ground. If directly struck by lightning, it really makes no difference what type of ground you have, you're screwed. There are 2 main reasons for static bleed:
(1) As has been previously stated; to dissipate the EM charge radiated through the air (just like a radio or TV signal only 100,000 times stronger) from a bolt of lightning (that can even be several miles away) instead of it being gathered by your dish and/or pole and fed directly into your equipment.
I had the P*** shocked out of me from a bolt of lightning at least 5 miles away, while holding onto a 10' mast for an OTA installation, that was inducted by the antenna and mast. I guess I must have been a good ground standing on the roof in my bare feet. Needless to say, I got the H*** off and waited for the storm to pass. A lightning bolt dissipates a tremendous amount of electrical energy into the atmosphere, even when it is a direct ground strike. Any good conductor picks this up through induction. Such are our dishes.
(2) To prevent the build up of a negative charge which continues to build, rising upward to a point where the positive charge in the clouds causes a discharge (lightning bolt) to the negative, and our dish. This, unfortunately, is only possible to minimize, not eliminate, as the negative charge builds up in the earth and may build up either in the area of, or close to, your dish. Nothing can be done about that. Check your installations, if your dish is not grounded, please do so ASAP or sooner or later, you will wish that you had. By the way, lightning does not always hit the highest point, such as a tree, it strikes the largest negative charge, which may build conically to a height, or remain on the ground.

[aim2pls]

I DONT THING THEY ARE CODE ANY MORE... 6 FT COPPER CLAD



missed the point huh ... btw .. thats 3 inch in diameter

[Villanman]

Grounding Question
My Dish is on the exact opposite corner of the house that the house ground is located.
However there is small breaker box enclosure that only services my heating an air less than 10 feet away of where the Dish is located and the lines go in.
Can this be used as an acceptable ground?

[Villanman]

Anyone? Basically wondering if the breaker box that feeds my air units would fall under the electrical enclosure category even though it is on the complete opposite corner of where the main ground and electric panel is.

[veryoldschool]

Anyone? Basically wondering if the breaker box that feeds my air units would fall under the electrical enclosure category even though it is on the complete opposite corner of where the main ground and electric panel is.
It will work, but may or may not meet local code.

[bt-rtp]

I would not suggest that as a grounding point. They emit electrical noise and also, I would not want to dischagre static from the satellite antenna to breaker panel of the air conditioner units.

You can install an 8' ground rod and bond it with a #6 copper wire to the existing ground of the dwelling, either a ground rod or the coppper water pipe main feed. That is the NEC standard.

See my sig for diagrams.

Anyone? Basically wondering if the breaker box that feeds my air units would fall under the electrical enclosure category even though it is on the complete opposite corner of where the main ground and electric panel is.

[Villanman]

Does the distance between the rods or feet of #6 copper wire used to bond the rods matter and can the bonding wire be buried?

[Villanman]

OK after some very in depth research, it appears my only solution for proper grounding is a second ground rod bonded to the main ground with #6 copper wire.

I only have one remaining question on this and I should be all set for install.

I see that it can be buried and it seems there is no restriction in the length of the bonding wire between the rods for this situation.

I can't seem to find anything that addresses any real specifics on the running of the #6 jumper other than a Directv installers manual that suggest to run it under the house or bury it if it is a slab foundation. But nothing really says how you should not run it.

Are there any restrictions on how/where the #6 copper jumper between the ground rods be run?

For instance, could I run the Copper jumper through the attic to get to the ground or under the roof over hang behind the lip where my gutters are attached?

[aim2pls]

OK after some very in depth research, it appears my only solution for proper grounding is a second ground rod bonded to the main ground with #6 copper wire.

I only have one remaining question on this and I should be all set for install.

I see that it can be buried and it seems there is no restriction in the length of the bonding wire between the rods for this situation.

I can't seem to find anything that addresses any real specifics on the running of the #6 jumper other than a Directv installers manual that suggest to run it under the house or bury it if it is a slab foundation. But nothing really says how you should not run it.

Are there any restrictions on how/where the #6 copper jumper between the ground rods be run?

For instance, could I run the Copper jumper through the attic to get to the ground or under the roof over hang behind the lip where my gutters are attached?

SURE you can ..... makes a great path for the lightning bolt .... multiple points for fires to start (obviously ... tongue in cheek)

[Villanman]

Yay... he got jokes

I've seen lightning blow bricks off buildings and catch lumber yards on fire (no wires or metal, just wood). Not to mention burn many houses.
If a house takes a direct lightning strike, there is a pretty good chance it will catch fire no matter how correct the wiring is.

I'm a 10 year career firefighter
But, I'm not an electrician or a code officer.
All I want to do is ground my dish/coax properly and I want to know all my options to do so.
I can't find a single thing on how/where NOT to run the jumper to connect to the secondary ground rod to the main house ground.
Licenses electricians tell me to not even worry about grounding it. But I can ground it easily with a secondary rod.
All I need to know now is about the jumper, because how I run it will now determine where the dish and the rod goes.

[aim2pls]

Yay... he got jokes

I've seen lightning blow bricks off buildings and catch lumber yards on fire (no wires or metal, just wood). Not to mention burn many houses.
If a house takes a direct lightning strike, there is a pretty good chance it will catch fire no matter how correct the wiring is.

I'm a 10 year career firefighter
But, I'm not an electrician or a code officer.
All I want to do is ground my dish/coax properly and I want to know all my options to do so.
I can't find a single thing on how/where NOT to run the jumper to connect to the secondary ground rod to the main house ground.
Licenses electricians tell me to not even worry about grounding it. But I can ground it easily with a secondary rod.
All I need to know now is about the jumper, because how I run it will now determine where the dish and the rod goes.

I agree with the electricians ....... the reason to tie grounds together is to help eliminate ground loops ...... if you got them you will SEE them (in the video) ... grounding a dish and/or coax causes a lot more problems than it solves .....

the directv/dish manuals were written by tech writers who listened to EE's that never worked with satellite dishes .. these same EE's added to the electrical codes

I know of 6 dishes that I have installed that were hit by lightning that were grounded ("required by the wire inspector") and destroyed ..... and literally thousands that have NOT been hit and are NOT grounded (26 years in the installation business)

[K4SMX]

I don't endorse anecdotal information regarding grounding or not grounding roof-mounted dish antennas. The necessity of grounding radio antennas of any kind has been thoroughly studied since Marconi. Ben Franklin should have known better than to fly that kite. In fact, that story is probably apocryphal, since I doubt he would have survived....

Run the #6 bonding wire as directly as feasible from the dish/grounding block ground rod to the electrical service ground rod. No dish wires of any kind should ever enter your attic prior to going directly to the grounding block.