New Install - What they will install if I want OTA

[InfoManWD]

I have a new install scheduled for Sunday, January 13th and I want to plan my system for optional OTA signals. I have read posts here for over 20 hours now (you guys are unbelievable) and I would like a little advice please.

WHAT I HAVE
I have a D* dish and an E* dish on the roof that are unused (previous owner) with a cable from each to a central point in the attic of a two-story house. I also have single cables that run from the attic to the living room, bedroom, and computer room. I have two HD televisions, Sony KDL-46V2500 and a Philips 30PW8402/37 (both HDTV capable). I have standard cable and HSI with Comcast.

WHAT I BOUGHT
I bought an HD DVR & HD receivers with the free install & new dish from DirecTV (credits + instant rebates = $590 but $325 up-front cost). :D They cancelled my first install the day of :mad: and never showed up for the reinstall day or called :mad:. I used the advice (thanks Hasan) to hopefully get an HR20 and an H21 by documenting on the account and calling the installer but we'll see.

So, with my system, what will they typically install? I would like to plan the system for OTA even though I don't have an antenna right now but will this be worth the pain, effort, or possible signal degradation? Here is my guess as to how this will play out ...

A. They will install a new 5 LNB dish (reuse the pole) and run four new cables and junk the old D* dish and cable. The E* dish and cable will be left untouched.
B. They will install an SWM5 multiswitch to use the existing single cable to both of my TVs.

QUESTIONS
1. Do they ever just pull new cables in the house rather than using the existing cables? It's two story so this could be painful.
2. They need to run at least two cables to the HR20 or use a multiswitch correct (not even counting my plan for OTA)? With OTA, that would be three cables without a multiswitch right?
3. My guess is they will be resistant to spend effort or equipment on my plan to provide future OTA signal. Do you think they would give me an SWM8 if I say I want OTA? If they show up with an HR21, this argument could be tough.
4. Will they pay for these components including my OTA plan (it said free professional installation).

My goal is to build flexibility into the design but to also have top quality. I don't want to diplex OTA and get flakey channels or something. Going from standard cable on an HDTV to DirecTV is going to be a big improvement anyway.

Thanks in advance for your input.

p.s. -- My first post so I'm learning now ... I'll try to contribute later. Anyone need an old dish? :D

InfoManWD
-First DirecTV system cost over $900. :eek2:

[houskamp]

1 depends on what your old cable is..
2 yep 3 caables 2 sat + 1 OTA
3 SWM? doubt it.. still in limited release
4 they should do all the sat lines required but they won't do the OTA..

[InfoManWD]

1 depends on what your old cable is..
2 yep 3 caables 2 sat + 1 OTA
3 SWM? doubt it.. still in limited release
4 they should do all the sat lines required but they won't do the OTA..

I figured that the SWMs were part of their 5 LNB dish design. Doesn't it require four cables off of the dish and, if so, where do you terminate those without a multiswitch ... on some kind of super splitter or something?

My cable TV/HSI system is all done with two and three way splitters and an amplifier off a single input cable feed. I can't visualize what the DirecTV wiring looks like. Does anyone have links to diagrams?

In my house, the H21 will only require one cable and I don't need OTA there so I'm good in the bedroom unless they want to pull new cable. It's two story but maybe that is easy with an existing cable. In the living room, I guess the one cable could help you pull two back through for the HR20 if that works.

Hmmm ... I was hoping the multiswitch would make the install about an hour. :(

Does anyone have input on how well the multiswitches work? Do they give them out as part of a standard install?

[BattleZone]

SWM is still in very limited release. The installer will most likely need to do a "legacy" install which requires two cables to any DVR and a single cable to any non-DVR. The dish itself supports 4 lines/tuners without an additional multiswitch. If more lines are needed, a 6x8 multiswitch is added for up to 8 lines, with 4 lines being required from the dish to the switch.

Most DirecTV installers will not install or run (free) cabling for OTA.

[Canis Lupus]

The install will not include any splitters or switches of any kind, in your case.
My advice for the needed OTA line would be to pay the installer to run the 3rd line.
The other option is taking the current Cable TV cable you have going to the room where the DVR will go, and using that one as the OTA line, because the installer should run 2 new lines for your DVR.

[glennb]

They will install a new dish but not reuse the pole.

They have to put up a new bracket.

I'm pretty sure you won't be getting SWM.

All the other questions will have to be answered when the installer gets there, may depend on his level of comprehension of the english language.

[InfoManWD]

The install will not include any splitters or switches of any kind, in your case.

1. Are the four cables from the 5 LNB dish required to get all of the SAT channels or do you only need to run the number of cables from the dish to feed the tuners you have in the house (in my case 3)? :confused:

1a. If the answer to #1 is no, then the same SAT signal is on all four of the cables that run from the dish correct?

1b. If the answer to #1 is yes, then what device takes me from four cables from the dish down to the three I need in the house (two for HR20 and one for H21)?

I read a bunch of threads on SWM cost ... geeze, didn't think they would be that much (sigh).

Thanks for the thoughts on the OTA. Maybe I can say that one cable there is mine and it's for OTA so you need to run your own to make it work (and maybe they will). My bet is they say "two story fish" so you aren't standard (pay more money).

[RobertE]

1. Are the four cables from the 5 LNB dish required to get all of the SAT channels or do you only need to run the number of cables from the dish to feed the tuners you have in the house (in my case 3)? :confused:

1a. If the answer to #1 is no, then the same SAT signal is on all four of the cables that run from the dish correct?

1b. If the answer to #1 is yes, then what device takes me from four cables from the dish down to the three I need in the house (two for HR20 and one for H21)?

I read a bunch of threads on SWM cost ... geeze, didn't think they would be that much (sigh).

Thanks for the thoughts on the OTA. Maybe I can say that one cable there is mine and it's for OTA so you need to run your own to make it work (and maybe they will). My bet is they say "two story fish" so you aren't standard (pay more money).

ANY wall fish is not part of the standard install. Rates will vary, usually up to $75 per wall per level.

[fwlogue]

1. Are the four cables from the 5 LNB dish required to get all of the SAT channels or do you only need to run the number of cables from the dish to feed the tuners you have in the house (in my case 3)? :confused:

1a. If the answer to #1 is no, then the same SAT signal is on all four of the cables that run from the dish correct?

1b. If the answer to #1 is yes, then what device takes me from four cables from the dish down to the three I need in the house (two for HR20 and one for H21)?

I read a bunch of threads on SWM cost ... geeze, didn't think they would be that much (sigh).

Thanks for the thoughts on the OTA. Maybe I can say that one cable there is mine and it's for OTA so you need to run your own to make it work (and maybe they will). My bet is they say "two story fish" so you aren't standard (pay more money).

The dish has a switch built in already. If all you will have is and HR2? and H2? then they will run two lines from the dish to the HR2? and then one line from the dish to the H2?.

A standard install includes mounting the dish running up to 125' of coax the coax run is done on the outside wall and then penetrate at the point it needs to go inside. If you want wall fishes of any kind this will cost extra. I believe the standard rate is about 75.00 per fish.

[InfoManWD]

Thanks for the input guys ... very helpful!

1. What are you guys defining as a "wall fish"?

My dish is on the edge of the roof so they will need to drill a hole in the eve and run three cables from the dish about 15' over to the "comm area" (for lack of a better term) in the wide-open attic, all easy to get to. A barrel connector finishes the job for a single line to the bedroom (assuming the existing coax works). Another barrel connector starts the job for the living room HR20 and I may just stop right there.

Why stop you say? Well, $150 to fish a two story wall may not be worth the ability to watch another channel than the one I am recording. I am one of those who hasn't had a DVR yet and I see where a DVR could be handy but two tuners may be easy to live without.

Any chance the guy will have an SWM5 or SWM8 on the truck even? I asked for it and they put it in the notes so maybe they will give me one for them missing two installs? I talked to someone else and they got D* to pay them $600 ($300 x 2) for missing their first two installs (guy stayed home and missed two days of work so they gave him lost pay).

I first asked the question about wall fishing due to threads saying that installers work 4 hours and get paid only $80 for an install. On a single story home with a basement or open attic, drilling a hole and dropping a cable down an open interior wall or up through the floor isn't very difficult. Now doing a two story fish then the job goes to very difficult at a minimum.

2. So is drilling a hole in the attic and dropping a cable down an interior wall and mounting a plate a "wall fish"?

[RobertE]

Thanks for the input guys ... very helpful!

1. What are you guys defining as a "wall fish"?

2. So is drilling a hole in the attic and dropping a cable down an interior wall and mounting a plate a "wall fish"?

Yes. If the line goes in the wall, not through it, it is a wall fish.

[InfoManWD]

Anyone who has had an SWM-8 installed by D* please reply ...

1. Did D* make you pay for the device or not?
2. If you paid for it, how much?
3. Is this piece of equipment leased (do they take it back if you cancel)?
4. Did you do anything special to get it (did you call D* and say you have OTA and single cables and needed the device)?

p.s. - If you "heard" about someone who has that counts too. ;)

[Canis Lupus]

The only problem with this logic is you still will not have solved your need for OTA. You will effectively have only one line running to your HR20, which is fine if you don't care about 2 tuners, but you still won't have OTA.

You may want to consider a standard install coming from an exterior wall into your rooms, then use the existing cable lines and convert those for use as OTA. You say you have a roomy attic. Any chance an antenna installed in that attic could get you good OTA?

Why stop you say? Well, $150 to fish a two story wall may not be worth the ability to watch another channel than the one I am recording. I am one of those who hasn't had a DVR yet and I see where a DVR could be handy but two tuners may be easy to live without.

[InfoManWD]

The only problem with this logic is you still will not have solved your need for OTA.

Correct ... I would punt the 2nd turner and the OTA goals to save money now which could be put towards buying an SWM-8 when pricing is reasonable or part of an upgrade or something.

You may want to consider a standard install coming from an exterior wall into your rooms, then use the existing cable lines and convert those for use as OTA.

Yes, thought about it but exterior lines on a $250K+ property is probably a no-go especially with "concrete board" siding ... I could see that stuff cracking up and falling off the side of the house with a few more holes in it. It's already given me enough problems.

You say you have a roomy attic. Any chance an antenna installed in that attic could get you good OTA?

I bet it's 18' from floor to attic ceiling in the center (would make most people cry to see such space). I'm in Houston (Sugar Land) down by where they have the clump of all antennas for the city. If one fell over, it might land on my house :lol: (well, almost). I'll bet I can get HD with a ball of aluminum foil on the back of my Sony HDTV. :lol: The good news is, it has an ATSC tuner which would be required since I think getting the HR20 as I requested isn't going to happen. And I haven't looked at HD antennas yet but I thought some are like a bar that I could easily hang underneath the eve where the SATs are mounted on the roof in the back yard.

Good thoughts, I think I know where you are going ... you're saying diplexing is an option right?

I really appreciate the great responses. I have learned so much from this formum from a lot of really smart cookies. :D :D :D