How much is YE$ really worth?

[Mark Holtz]

Original source of this story from the NY Post (http://www.nypost.com/business/66956.htm) is from alt.dbs.echostar:

BASEBALL BUMMER

With less than a month before baseball's pitchers and catchers report to spring training, there's no end in sight to the dispute between Cablevision and the YES Network - the cable television channel controlled by George Steinbrenner's YankeeNets, both sides say.

YES has been forced to lower advertising rates, and it has lost about $60 million in subscriber fees as a result of not being on Cablevision.

Cablevision is estimated to have lost about 18,000 customers - or roughly $1 million in revenue per month - because of the dispute.

Full story here (http://www.nypost.com/business/66956.htm)

So, all you YE$ fans, how much of a per subscriber rate is the Yankees really worth? Cablevision is offerring 55 cents per subscriber, Time-Warner is paying $1.85 per subscriber, and the current offer is $2 per subscriber. Cablevision (and Dish) have offerred to make YE$ available a'la carte, with YE$ keeping the revenue.

How about you New York fans who have no interest in the Yankees or even in sports, but will be forced to pay for a channel that you don't watch anyways?

[jeffwtux]

Sounds like their are trying to use the cable-satellite market to circumvent the free market. The ad-market is a much more fluid market and the values it sets for a product are far more accurate. There's lots of supply and lots of demand. With cable and satellite their is far less supply. I say that if you don't have the freedom to just walk away, then it isn't a free market. That's why this NBA deal pisses me off big time.

[pernar]

I think they should just flush YES. I applaud Cablevision's move, I just don't think MLB is popular enough to warrant such a price, let alone put it on any programming tier. It should be strictly ala carte.

[James_F]

Heck its up to the Yankees. If they want to charge people to watch their product then in a free market economy they can. If I liked the Yankees and lived in NY, I'd be pissed if my cable/dbs provider decided that for me.

The Suns used to be on PPV a couple years ago on Cox, but I never bought any games since I really don't care for them, BUT, my roomate loved them and bought the season pass. I guess its up to the individual, but I'd just assume pay for baseball rather than not get it.

[Mike123abc]

If YES wants to charge that much, that is their business. If Cablevision/Dish don't want to carry/charge their customers that much, that is their business.

In the long run YES will suffer, if they cannot get carriage, they will not get advertising revenue. The other cable providers might decide that hey Cablevision is doing good without, we could too. I wonder how long the contract is that the other cable companies signed. YES could be going dark when they do expire.

[James_F]

YES will be around as long as Yankees/Nets wants it to be. The bigger issue is why FSNY exists, why should anyone have to pay for that POS?

[James_F]

Originally posted by Mike123abc
If YES wants to charge that much, that is their business. If Cablevision/Dish don't want to carry/charge their customers that much, that is their business.

In the long run YES will suffer, if they cannot get carriage, they will not get advertising revenue. The other cable providers might decide that hey Cablevision is doing good without, we could too. I wonder how long the contract is that the other cable companies signed. YES could be going dark when they do expire.

This is the exact opposite reaction you hear when Dish subs are angry that ESPN Classic or TNT are about to get removed from the service. Why is it good enough for ESPN Classic, but not good enough for YES?

[Mike123abc]

The reaction comes from TNT and ESPN classic being nationwide in appeal/audience. Having to pay that much for a narrow audience causes the DBS/Cable company to have to think about what it costs vs how many people the will lose. Right now Cablevision/Dish feel that they will lose fewer people and it will cost them less than having to raise prices to cover this one channel for a narrow audience.

[DCSholtis]

Dont forget in 2005 I believe YES will also carry the New Jersey Devils...(after the contract with FSNY expires).....so in a 2 yrs they will have 3 of the major teams tied up in that channel......at that point you may see FSNY go dark....

[Scott Greczkowski]

Part of the problem may be that Dish might just want to get rid of FSNY (and for that matter MSG) but they can't as contracts are in place.

I have YES on Cable and its not even a good sports channel.

[James_F]

Which brings us back to the point that we have too many channels.

[Darren]

Pernar:

The Yankees are the most popular team in baseball and in the largest market. I suspect the Yankees might be the most popular team in New York period.

Scott:
YES has 125-130 Yankees games plus about 70 Nets games, that is a lot more than a lot of sports channels. It is also picking up Manchester United games as well. It is a very good channel IMO.

[raj2001]

Originally posted by Z'Loth
How about you New York fans who have no interest in the Yankees or even in sports, but will be forced to pay for a channel that you don't watch anyways? [/B]

Like me. If I could get my locals, plus a few other channels (CNN, TBS, WGN etc), I would be fine. I'm paying $40/month for alot of channels I don't even have interest in.

[jened]

I'm a big Yankees fan but was still under contract when last season started. I'm not any longer, but I really like my 501 and UPN for Enterprise and am too cheap to splurge for a Tivo. I'd probably buy YES a la carte if given the choice though. To me, it'd would be worth maybe $2/month. I agree with FSNY useless.

[cnsf]

YES is definitely overpriced at $2 and the requirement to be on basic is ridiculous. HOWEVER, I am a big Yankee fan, as are VERY many NYers, and we should have the option to get the games as do the Mets and Knicks fans.

So, who is at fault? All three: YES, Cablevision AND Dish. What to do? Get DirecTV. Cablevision area customers have no other choice.

Does it make sense for Dish or Cablevision to carry YES at the current requirement level? "Yes" for Cablevision, "No" for Dish.

Cablevision is losing both customer base and reputation (more importantly). The cost of not carrying YES is not measurable in terms of future $.

For Dish, it makes sense. If they MUST carry it and pay based on the entire network subscriber base AND most subscribers will get the pro games blacked out, there is NO incentive, financially, for Dish to carry it. It is just at the sacrifice of the NY fans, a calculated business decision.

The biggest question is "What are the real offers out there?" "Why isn't anyone giving a straight answer and all the players are pointing fingers?" The answer....they are ALL at fault and the fans are the ones who lose.

If YES allowed a la carte, we'd all be in better shape. Cablevision deserves to go in the toilet anyway. Poor service (I have the destroyed lawn to prove it), poor reception, poor response time and customer service reps., and constantly escalating prices for fewer channels....not carrying YES is just a bad business move for Cablevision.

[cnsf]

Originally posted by jened
I'm a big Yankees fan but was still under contract when last season started. I'm not any longer, but I really like my 501 and UPN for Enterprise and am too cheap to splurge for a Tivo. I'd probably buy YES a la carte if given the choice though. To me, it'd would be worth maybe $2/month. I agree with FSNY useless.

You get UPN for Enterprise in the NY DMA (Ch.9). You lose nothing by going to DirecTV.

[cnsf]

Originally posted by Z'Loth
Cablevision is estimated to have lost about 18,000 customers - or roughly $1 million in revenue per month - because of the dispute.


What is not mentioned are the 30,000-40,000 new customers signed on in the NY area by DirecTV. Customers who could have also chosen Cablevision. The loss is not only related to those parting ways with Cablevision, but also a loss in new customer acquisitions.

[Brett]

csnf, the basic package requirement is pretty standard. All the other RSNs (like NESN and CCSN Philly and locally competing channels MSG and FSNY) are part of the basic package. The trend began in the late 90s and channel owners prefer this system. Cablevision does in fact require other systems (like competing RCN) to put MSG and FSNY in the basic package, even though they dont do it on all their systems.

If YES wants to build an advertising revenue, they need their channel in basic.

"If they MUST carry it and pay based on the entire network subscriber base AND most subscribers will get the pro games blacked out"

No, only viewers in the New York/New Jersey sports market will be counted. This does not cover South Jersey or any part of MA, but includes NY, North & Central Jersey, Connecticut and Wilkes-Barre/ Scranton DMA. From my understanding Wilkes-Barre gets overlap from both NY and PHilly teams, the same way York, PA gets both CCSNs (from DC and Philly) atleast on cable.

DirecTV or Dish Network will have to take $2 from those subscribers (in the above markets) and send it to YES (implying Total Choice or equivalent subscriber), not from the entire 7 or 11 million subscriber base.


Otherwise, you are implying DirecTV is paying $2 per month to YES for all subscribers meaning about 10 million DirecTV subs * 12 months * $2/mo, : DirecTV is shelling over $200 million a year to YES which is very unlikely.

[Mike123abc]

No the issue comes down to they would have to pay $1.85 extra per subscriber in the areas YES serves. $1.85/month is most of the profit margin that Dish makes on a subscriber. So, why carry a channel that you have to pay so much for that you do not make money? Either that or they would have to put an astrerick on the price sheet and say higher in NY. Plus if they give into one channel, they would be pressured into more of the same.

[cnsf]

Originally posted by Mike123abc
No the issue comes down to they would have to pay $1.85 extra per subscriber in the areas YES serves. $1.85/month is most of the profit margin that Dish makes on a subscriber. So, why carry a channel that you have to pay so much for that you do not make money? Either that or they would have to put an astrerick on the price sheet and say higher in NY. Plus if they give into one channel, they would be pressured into more of the same.

If this truly is the case, almost all NY subs would be willing to fork over the extra $2. Mets fans should not complain as they get their team.... it's only right.

Seems to me, then, that the issue is completely on the Echostar and Cablevision ends.

Makes me feel much better about buying the DirecTV equipment.

Still waiting for my install though.....

[DCSholtis]

I think the $2 charge that YES gets from Directv comes from the NY subs as described above.....where it is part of the basic pack for them....as well as the subs who order the Sports Pak outside the NY DMA.....Thats where/how D* gets charged....

[cnsf]

I thought D* charges an extra $1 from NY customers who elect to get it.

[platinum]

Originally posted by cnsf
I thought D* charges an extra $1 from NY customers who elect to get it.
Nope......:D

[cnsf]

That'll save me a buck from what I was planning when I convert....good to know. Thx.